Three months ago, my sociopathic girlfriend dumped me because I was going into the military. Afterward, I found out she was cheating on me with a married man. The one great thing about her was that she opened me up. At 22, I’d been in only a few other relationships. The sex with her was amazing, and she opened me up to different things (kinks, dirty talk, foreplay). I’m now having a hard time finding people willing to have casual-yet-kinky sex. I tried online, but the minute someone sees the “going into the army” portion of my profile, they assume I’m some sort of conservative prick. But I am liberal and open-minded and just looking to have some NSA sex before I leave for the army. Help!
Kinky Open-Minded Soldier
If the “going into the army” portion of your profile is preventing you from finding kinky NSA sex partners, KOMS, omit the “going into the army” portion of your profile. Your NSA sex partners may, after meeting you, inquire about your future plans. But you don’t need to disclose your hopes, dreams, and political leanings to potential NSA hookups, particularly if you feel that your plans are prejudicing kinksters against you.
But I’m not sure the army portion of your profile is the issue. There are a lot of conservative kinksters out there (I hear from them whenever I tear into a conservative politician in this space), and there are a lot of liberal/hippie/NPR-
listening kinksters out there who are attracted to military guys despite their politics (I hear from them whenever they want permission to cheat on their pansy-ass, hypersensitive hippie boyfriends with gruff ‘n’ buff military guys).
Have a kinky and/or adventurous friend take a look at the rest of your profile. It could be that some other part is giving off a creepy, unsafe, or inept vibe—do you mention that you hadn’t heard of foreplay until you were 22?—and it’s that part that’s turning off otherwise up-for-army-boy kinksters.
I’m a youngish (barely under 30) woman, currently involved in a great hetero relationship: My boyfriend is caring, unlike some men I’ve dated before, and I see him as a life partner. The trouble is, I find sex profoundly boring. I get vaguely “horny” maybe twice a year, and I don’t like sex.
Now I’m starting to wonder if being sexually uninterested disqualifies me from being with my BF. Judging from your past advice, it does. Is this something I should disclose so that he can leave me? I enjoy the cuddling and kissing, talking and outings that are part of coupledom, and it pains me to think I’m doomed to be alone, forever, just because shoving genitals together sits at #48 on my life priority list.
Please let me know what I should do. He’s talking about a future together.
Doesn’t Really Yearn
Either you’ve misread my past advice to the sexually disinterested, DRY, or you’ve only read mischaracterizations of my past advice on angry asexual blogs. So once more with feeling: Being asexual or minimally sexual does not disqualify you or anyone else from having a relationship or enjoying all of the swell, non-genitalia-related things that come with coupledom.
But you can’t—you shouldn’t—mislead your boyfriend about who you are.
He has a right to know how you feel about sex before he marries you, DRY. At the moment, he assumes—and it’s an entirely rational assumption—that you’re attracted to him not just in the cuddling, kissing, talking, and outing departments, but sexually as well. That you’re not all that interested in sex with him or anyone else is something he has a right to know before marriage and/or kids.
But even if your current BF leaves you, DRY, you’re not necessarily “doomed to be alone.” There are men out there who feel the same way about sex that you do. If your boyfriend dumps you, come out as very nearly asexual and go find yourself a very nearly asexual guy who wants to cuddle, kiss, talk, and out. And if you do ultimately wind up alone, DRY, no whining: There are lots of happily partnered asexuals out there and lots of unhappy sexuals who wound up alone despite their interest in sex.
My husband and I hired an electrician, whom I will call “Sparky.” We hired Sparky once before, and he was completely professional. One quirk: He would call me “Ma’am” instead of my name.
Halfway through Sparky’s four-hour re-wiring marathon in our kitchen, he handed me an envelope and asked me to fill out a survey regarding his service. I read the following: “My name is Mistress [REDACTED] and I control the male who just gave you this letter. He and I live the lifestyle of Female Supremacy. In our lifestyle of Matriarchy, women issue direction and men obey.”
The letter went on to ask for feedback about his performance, whether he was appropriately submissive, whether he addressed me as “Ma’am” or “Mistress,” and it ended: “To obtain the best possible service, order this male to give you his key. Keep the key until you are completely satisfied with his attitude or work. Use him as you wish. He must obey.”
I don’t know much about Dom/sub culture, Dan, but I can’t shake the feeling that by hiring this particular electrician, I was unwittingly included in his sex life, and that totally creeps me out. Am I wrong? Are we judgmental prudes if we never hire Sparky ever again?
Apparently Naive Housewife
You were dragged into Sparky’s sex life not when you hired him, ANH, but when he made the choice—perhaps he felt he was just following orders—to hand you that envelope. At that point, he involved you in his sex life, which was rude and unprofessional.
Most women who aren’t interested in sharing an erotic moment with Sparky—because they’re not into Dom/sub play or not into Sparky—would feel uncomfortable reading that letter, which suddenly sexualized a nonsexual exchange of goods and services. Some women would feel deeply violated. Making women feel uncomfortable or unsafe in their own homes by springing your erotic submission on them—and requiring them to participate without first obtaining their explicit consent—is sexual aggression masquerading as erotic submission.
And it’s not okay.
Professional Dom, sex bomb, and sex blogger Mistress Matisse (www.mistressmatisse.com) agrees with me: “That’s totally inappropriate,” Matisse said in an e-mail. “Those folks did not agree, either overtly or by any action, to be involved in topping that man. If his Mistress really exists, then they are both complicit in creepiness.”
If I were you, ANH, I wouldn’t hire Sparky again. Not because I wouldn’t mind having a submissive electrician around the house—that sounds like fun, actually—but because I wouldn’t want an electrician around the house, submissive or not, who displayed poor judgment and had no boundaries.
CONFIDENTIAL TO KIMBO: It sounds like you made the right choice when you DTMFA’d that dude.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
None of us are saying one shouldn’t leave bad relationships (regardless of children), and a lack of physical & emotional intimacy certainly indicates an unsatisfying relationship.
The problem is that guys on Slog say: “I’m not getting enough sex.” I’m only now learning that’s guy-speak for “I don’t feel connected to her and she doesn’t care.” When Dan says “a guy needs to be milked,” it doesn’t sound emotional. Frankly, it sounds like masturbation would do the job just fine. Cows can’t milk themselves, but guys can certainly masturbate. So I hadn’t really understood Dan’s point about owing your guy a milking. But if it’s about how milking themselves makes (some) guys feel empty & sad inside, then that’s different.
Sorry, my note @208 was replying to perversecowgirl @206.
Late to the party, are there still drinks??
EricaP, I still smile when I think about our wrestling match last summer on this very subject.
Approaching 40 in LA:
Your comments on this subject always make me sad, because you seem like a really nice guy, and I remember being on the other side of that situation, of simply not understanding the depth of the “lack of sex” issue from my husband’s point of view. From my perspective, when I was running a million ways when the kids were little, and even as they got a bit older, I totally trivialized how my husband felt about sex. My attitude was like, “Oh, please! How could it matter that much?” (At the lowest point, we were having sex 1-2 times a week, just to give you an idea). And honestly, talking about it didn’t help me understand any better. I had to actually rediscover my own sexuality in order to really want it again, it has to come from inside, and you have to find those things that turned you on all those years ago. This is what EricaP and I talked/argued about last summer (we ended up kissing, making up, and having a 3-way–okay, I’m kidding about that last thing…) that I think women need to remember and reconnect with feeling sexy and desirable. I remember getting ready to go out to parties in college…of course you wore your cutest satin undies, of course you wore the tight jeans, it was all part of it. Fast forward to post-kids, and you’re lucky if your drawer has anything in it other than Bridget Jones briefs–ugh. So, just a thought, but how would your wife react to: A weekend away without the kids, she spends some time getting the full treatment at a salon (yes! I’m a girly girl, sue me!), mani, pedi, waxed–ouch–hair, etc., then to a hotel, you drink enough wine to be pleasantly tipsy, you read some erotica to each other, you watch some nice porn, you get the idea…take things right out of ordinary. No one’s listening, no kids who might need a drink, no sheets to wash in the morning, there’s definitely something special about hotel sex. If she can find a way to realize that she can be a good mom, as well as a sexy mom, well….worked for me, anyway.
Stating what should be obvious. For some people the benefits of an affair/sexual gratification come with too high a price (be it self respect, integrity, or whatever you want to call it) Ultimately you have to be able to live with yourself. For the regious minded, what profiteth a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul? And that only considers the cost to you as a person and does not consider any of the collateral damage. I am not being judgmental, I can only decide what is best for myself.
As what one would expect from the nature of this site, many of the people who post here espouse the importance of sexual satisfaction and I do not dispute that. However, sex is not the be all and end all of most people’s existence. Everyone prioritizes the things in life differently. I believe a lot of people who post here are looking for acceptance, a sympathetic audience, and validation of the choices they make.
An observation, while communication is important in a relationship, credibility is even more so. A relationship may survive the lack of communication, I do not believe any relationship can survive the absense of credibility. It may not be true in every case, but I can not think of anything more destructive than knowing you have and are being lied to. I can forgive many things, I don’t think I can forgive being lied to. For me that is a guaranteed way for love to become hate. How can you trust someone if you can’t believe what they say. When you lie to someone, they no longer have any obligation to be honest with you and you have no right to expect them to be.
I know this has been off topic, but I feel the need to vent about being lied to. I live in the Madison area and I am sick to death of being blatantly lied to by scum sucking politicians. Thank God that I’m not a violent person or I might do something truly regretable. Right now I don’t think I could survive finding out finding I am or was lied to by my wife. Right now I, like many people in Wisconsin, am hypersensitive on this topic.
@208 Agree that milking is a possibly unhelpful – if humorous description. “Cows can’t milk themselves, but guys can certainly masturbate”. When I hear the suggestion that the “solution” is just for the guy to masturbate, I think – oh yeh, there’s a fob-off that exhibits lack of understanding or empathy or both. It’s so kind to get that concern – I figure that just maybe the notion that I could masturbate might have occurred – I’ve likely done so more often in a year than those suggesting it have had sexual thoughts in a lifetime. Masturbation has very little to do with what I want from partnered sex, and quite specifically, I have a valid problem if my partner either doesn’t understand what’s important to me, dismisses it as unimportant, or is unwilling to help me achieve it.
@210 Your description of your understanding and attitudes to your husband’s feeling was great, and DW expressed similar. There’s a big difference between intellectual understanding, and understanding in your gut, and that’s why talking ain’t always enough. You have to be able to feel it and to negotiate fairly (bothways).
@208
Yeah, “milking” suggests an empty experience to me. It might be a slightly more gratifying thing than masturbation but to further what you said, if masturbation leaves you emotionally empty then being “milked” is possibly even worse. It would depend on how good a reason she had for only being able to provide “milking” rather than a fuller, more emotionally connected experience.
@207 – a lot of people understand life is messy, and can sympathize.
FWIW, I almost wish my wife would have an affair (safe and discreet of course) with the pool boy. I don’t have a cuckold fetish but it would be nice to see a woman I love feel alive, sexy, and breaking out of the mommy-martyr trap that hangs like a cloud around the house.
My kingdom for a safety vavle……
@206 (perversecowgirl): Yes! Exactly.
@207 badgirl
It really is too bad that American culture hasn’t figured these things out yet. Dan is pushing it in the right direction and in your own way so are you. You are the best judge of what’s right and what you can live with.
And if you are anywhere near the Northeast I’d be happy to exchange stories with you sometime. (stories not fluids, just to be totally clear)
@214 Yeah, that part about trivializing, in hindsight, is interesting, because a lot of women would say that they see themselves as good listeners, understanding, empathetic, so what gives in this respect? I think some women internalize this idea about being perfect mummies, and, as Suzy (wrongly, I believe) said earlier, put the kids in a position where their needs always come first. They want to be recognized for having the best-mannered kids, the cleanest house, etc., those become the priorities, and so when they hear real criticism from their husbands (“what? a clean house doesn’t do it for you? it does it for me!) I think that brush-off becomes trivialized as an unreasonable demand, lumped in the same category of, “No Timmy, you can’t have ice cream for dinner, how silly.”
Here’s something to think about: I was listening to the radio, and these announcers were talking about where to take a girl on a date.
One of them jokingly said, “A strip joint!”
The other guy said, “No, man, you can’t take a girl you’d take to meet your parents to a strip joint.”
“Why not, what if she suggested it?” (laughing)
“The kind of girl who’d suggest going to a strip joint isn’t the kid of girl where your gonna put a ring on her finger.”
So, the message, again and again: Fuck the bad girls, marry the good girls, have two kids, write to Dan in 10-12 years about your non-existent sex life. It’s this kind of slut-shaming that girls hear, and internalize, and which plants the seed that sexual feelings are not to be acted upon, and that “good” girls (“marriageable” girls) do not act in overtly sexual ways. Look no further than a show I truly enjoy watching, Modern Family: Sexy Gloria, mumsy Claire. Gloria = second marriage, younger woman, overtly sexual, clueless mothering VS Tightly wound, gym bunny Claire, kids the centre of her existence, husband character is treated like another child, there is no hint of sex between her and her husband. And the show is funny, the characters are great, but those two women are a pretty good example of the choices we, as a puritanical society, give young women.
“So, the message, again and again: Fuck the bad girls, marry the good girls, have two kids, write to Dan in 10-12 years about your non-existent sex life.”
Yes. This. Is why I have a hard time feeling sorry for these men who write in complaining. Sexual women are out there, we’re just not taken seriously a lot of the time. (In all fairness, I think a lot of straight women tend to dismiss highly sexual men as serious partners too.)
re: Milking – here’s the thing: it’s not just a matter of ‘servicing’ the other person – the compromise is not “ok, I’ll sit/lay/bend over here and tolerate this while you get your on”. It’s quite important to feel like your partner likes – is actively enjoying – what that two of you are doing. That’s where the sense of connected-ness comes from. Otherwise, yes, frankly, masturbation and single-dom are preferable.
@214, 215, 221 – But if you don’t just want the wife to tolerate sex, to service the need, then for pete’s sake stop phrasing it as “I need more sex with her.”
No wonder therapists take the woman’s side. The men won’t talk openly about what they mean. Is it fear of seeming vulnerable? Our society allows men to want a hole to fuck, but doesn’t allow a man to say he wants his wife to “feel alive, sexy, and breaking out of the mommy-martyr trap.” (I loved that, @216.)
@219
Canuck, I think it bears pointing out what sort of morons are on the radio. They do say those sorts of things but they also don’t fit the mold of anyone I personally know. I and all the men I went to school with take women very seriously. We certainly do want women we can celebrate both intellectually and sexually.
@222
EricaP, I have no trouble being vulnerable. Maybe I am an oddity to some extent as my wife and I have mixed and matched traditional gender roles. But at least I see progress in there being an increasing acceptance of househusbands as something other than losers and leeches and unmanly. I’ve even seen a news report about us being “trophy husbands.” (we laughed over that)
Yes, “I want more sex” doesn’t work at all. You need to dig quite a bit deeper.
I don’t know that I can bring anything to add to the very interesting conversation that jenesasquatch, EricaP, Approaching 40 in LA, Badgirl, Perverse Cowgirl, Canuck, et al have been having. Everyone’s been bringing so much more thoughtfulness to this issue than I usually see, including from Dan in some of his responses!
I’ve long been an opponent to Dan’s idea of “giving an assist” to a partner who wants sex when you don’t, or “milking,” because I have thought that if getting a sexual release was all that was needed, then masturbation would do the trick–and that masturbation while someone who clearly isn’t into it themselves and is just giving a perfunctory “assist” or a maintenance “milking” would be the source of even more of a sense of disconnection and would lead to resentment on both sides.
For me, and from what I am hearing, for others, “I want more sex” translates more often than not as “I want more intimate connection with you. I want to feel more desire for me from you. I want you to WANT ME.” (to quote that sage rabbi, Robin Zander)
None of that is achieved by a milking or an assist to masturbation.
And it’s going to be a slightly different issue with each couple, representing a different take on that need and a different solution, but the bottom line is that we all want to feel desired by our partner. We want to feel alive and sexy and vibrant; our partners want us to feel alive and sexy and vibrant, and part of what contributes to making us feel alive and sexy and vibrant is the sense that our partner wants us, really US, for who we are-not as an assist to masturbation, or a fuck-to-shut-the-whining-up.
When I was married, I’m sure if you had asked my husband, he would have said he wanted more sex. But had he acted as though he thought I was the most sexy, beautiful, desirable woman he knew, instead of as though I was the available vagina, it would have helped me feel like fucking him.
When I met someone who did act like that, it was amazing how much I wanted to have sex . . .
@224 thanks for the observations, can I make some distinctions? “the sense that our partner wants us, really US, for who we are” is what it’s about for me.
But beware this thing of separating sex from intimacy, it’s not that way for me – I want the sex included, and I do not buy the quality not quantity argument.
As for “milking”, maintenance or the assist, I don’t think the words do any favors; we have a good-enough time in our relationship where we are sometimes getting different things out of the encounter (which may be a quickie or assist) – and in particular, I neither want nor expect simulations of desire on her part (unless that’s what she feels at the time), because that is not then true to who she is. Yet if she’s welcoming and a witness to who I am, then that’s good enough – and infinitely preferable to solo. And it paves the way for the times when it is mutually passionate and desirous.
@224: I guess it’s that sense of being “welcoming and a witness to who [you are]” that I think is often missing in the idea of “milking.”
You are absolutely right that having someone witness in that way is preferable to solo masturbation; I would say that it is still an instance of connection.
As far as quality over quantity goes, I prefer quality and quantity–the best, hottest sex in the world, if it only happens once quarterly, is insufficient. But sex with the attitude of “I’m not into this myself, but I’m doing this in the spirit of duty” even if it is as frequent as Approaching 40 in LA’s twice-weekly maintenance sex (which, considering he has two kids under 10, seems pretty decent to many of us–and it’s not always martyrdom, it’s sometimes just exhaustion and the feeling that there is always someone who wants something physical from you that can get to a mom) can be unsatisfying, too.
Ooops: I meant # 225
I’ve long been an opponent to Dan’s idea of “giving an assist” to a partner who wants sex when you don’t…masturbation while someone who clearly isn’t into it themselves…would be the source of even more of a sense of disconnection and would lead to resentment on both sides.
Kinda depends. I’ve recently gone through a stressful time that killed my sex drive deader than it’s ever been…but I still thought my boyfriend was beautiful and I still wanted to please him. So I would cheerlead his wanks (or sometimes fuck him anyway with a lot of lube) and I think that helped maintain our connection with each other.
Meanwhile, when I was married my husband seemed to abhor every single aspect of my sexuality. He did not want me to masturbate in his presence or even mention that I had done so while he wasn’t around. He did not want me to share the porn I liked (I tried this once in a misguided attempt to bring us closer together). I have never felt so profoundly rejected. If he had seemed cheerful and supportive of me having orgasms but just didn’t want any of his own…well, that would still have kinda sucked, but not nearly as much.
Mind you, my husband couldn’t help feeling the way he felt; he couldn’t have given me regular “assists” because for whatever reason the idea seemed to make him nauseous. Whereas sexuality is a big part of my life and on those rare occasions when my sex drive has gone away, I’ve missed it; I’ve wanted to want more sex. Hence the difference in how my husband and I have handled our respective sexual issues.
I guess my point is that a) not everyone with a lower sex drive feels resentful about participating in sexytimes and b) depending on (a), giving an “assist” can let your partner know how much you love them and how much you encourage and support their sexuality.
Perhaps it boils down to “low sex drive due to issues with one’s partner” vs. “low sex drive due to stress/hormonal issues/etc.”. I think the two are very different animals.
@224 And it’s going to be a slightly different issue with each couple, representing a different take on that need and a different solution, but the bottom line is that we all want to feel desired by our partner.
@171 “it’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever done; refusal to negotiate and trivializing the need would actually be the showstoppers”
@200 “Marriage is hard work”
@207 “parenting is HARD. Marriage is HARD.”
YES. Not only is it hard to figure out how to connect (physically & emotionally) with another person, and how to maintain that bond for years and years and years, with bad times and other responsibilities too … Not only all that – but our culture gives us almost no tools at all for doing this. Lots of advice on how to get married; nothing on how to grow and change and live together.
As a never-married guy, I’m finding this discussion absolutely fascinating – I had no idea married people thought or felt this way.
Jenesasquatch@223 Sorry, I realize in rereading what I wrote that it looks like I was directing it to the husbands on this thread–I wasn’t, honestly! I was thinking about how we women probably internalize the sort of thing that bozo on the radio was saying, about how “nice” girls are supposed to act, and it plays out later, even in marriages where guys like you and Approaching 40 are trying and communicating. I think it’s partly post-children hormones, but I think women also need to stop thinking they can either be good mothers OR sexual creatures.
The Bible -whether it is the Word of God, or something written by old men 3000 years ago – recognizes a woman’s need for sex:
Exodus 21:10
“If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and conjugal rights.”
@231
Oh, I didn’t take it that way. I just wanted to give my witness to you about the disconnect between “entertainment” and real people. Given how different from those guys I am, I have to wonder how many more men like me are out there. I’ve never even been to a strip club. Porn shouldn’t be able to see you looking. It gets in the way of the fantasy.
And again I’m a bit of an extreme example considering that in some ways my wife is my husband and I am her wife (circa 1955). I still get aroused when she pulls in the driveway and I fix her a martini. Yes, really. And she does appreciate it.
The martini, the arousal, or both?
Ha! The martini, the glint in my eyes, and if the boy isn’t nearby, the arousal. Not that it necessarily leads to anything. Alas, the vagina wants what the vagina wants.
@jenesasquatch:
Lots of guys still suffer from Madonna/whore complex…trust me. I’ve driven off a few guys in my day by “giving it up too soon”, causing them to get paranoid and assume I sleep with everyone that soon. I don’t; it’s just that on that rare occasion when I meet someone I consider sex-worthy, I don’t see the point of arbitrarily dragging the process out.
Thank god I met my boyfriend, who isn’t hung up on all that stupid “girlfriend vs. slut” bullshit (and who I tied to my bed and anally penetrated on our second date…).
Our gender roles are reversed from the norm too, btw. To the extent that I’ll sometimes come home from work to find dinner all prepared and him waiting for me in lingerie.
*bliss*
Wow, jenesasquatch, greeting her with a martini…you are doing it right! Sheesh. I’m thinking some erotica on her ipod for the drive home, and…waka waka…
Perversecowgirl: Your previous situation reminds me a LOT of one of my single friends…I am glad you were finally able to meet someone who can hang, lol!
Tim Horton: Thanks, and you really hit the nail on the head. I think the reason the sex we have IS the fact that my lover makes me feel soooooo desirable. With him, I feel like sex incarnate, and I know that must have incredible ramifications on my performance, lol! nocutename mentioned this as well. How sex/lovemaking is improved with this. It becomes SOOOO much better then “milking”!!! And actually, contrary to as mentioned upstream….sex this good IS one of the best parts of my existence. I mean, really….the pleasure is beyond all imagining unless you have had it this good, and I doubt many people have. *I* didn’t think it was possible myself until I met my current lover and we had several years under our belts.
jenesatsquatch: No, not in the Northeast, but you can email me! badgirlboredathome@gmail.com. (sigh…I know, terrible, eh? But certainly not my work email, lol!!
Blah, I posted jenesasquatch, saying I am not in the North East, but you are more then welcome to email me, and gave my email address, but someone must not have liked that. Lol…its a totally anon one, (like the kind you get thru google), and its my nick + “boredathome”, but oh well, I guess its not allowed. I am not a spammer, and I don’t really give a shit who has that addy, it not my work one!
But anyway, my main point was that Tim Horton and nocutename, you guys totally hit the nail on the head when you mentioned having someone make you feel wanted and desired. My lover makes me feel like sex incarnate, and I am sure that does a number in regards to enhancing my performance, lol!! Its mind-blowing, really.
And for those of you who mentioned upstream that sex isn’t all there is to life….well, its one of THE best things. I truly think those people who deny this, cannot have had *really* incredible, cosmic, soulful sex. I don’t think all that many people have the wonderful opportunity to experience this, sadly enough. I didn’t even know how amazing it could be until I met my lover and we had a couple of years of practice under our belts.
@236
That’s a great story. Good for you holding out for the right guy. I put out on the first date too, back in the day. Well I made an effort to anyway –I held my end up. God I’m slutty.
@239:
That was kind of my original point with this week’s letter: that DRY isn’t getting anything out of sex. Because until you experience it in the best way it can be, you really don’t know.
And Perversecowgirl, I think you have a real point vis a vis a lack of interest stemming from a dis-interest in the partner v. a lack of interest stemming from something else, like a medical condition.
The very last thing I would have wanted to do was to masturbate in front of my ex-husband, who was profoundly uncomfortable with my sexuality. So I certainly wouldn’t have wanted as “assist” from him. And since I was resentful of his lack of interest in me and my sexual needs, I didn’t feel like having sex with him. So that when he asked if I would watch as he masturbated, it was really uncomfortable for me, because, if I were into him, I’d be aroused by that. And if I were aroused by his masturbating, I’d offer more of an assist, or indicate my interest or enthusiasm. But since I didn’t want to have anything to do with him sexually, I didn’t have any interest in watching him masturbate, and I certainly didn’t react with any enthusiasm. I waited for him to finish. This isn’t very easy to confess, and it doesn’t reflect well on me at all. But the bottom line is, I can’t see how my clearly uninterested witnessing of his masturbating could have been in any way a turn-on. So the whole idea of an “assist” through action or witnessing, has to come from a position of being only uninterested in sex; not uninterested in your partner having sex.
I hope this makes sense. Next time, no typing and cocktails.
@241
“But since I didn’t want to have anything to do with him sexually, I didn’t have any interest in watching him masturbate, and I certainly didn’t react with any enthusiasm….it doesn’t reflect well on me at all.”
Yes it does! You are facing the situation that exists. Don’t try to feel what you think you are supposed to feel.
The way you describe the interplay of feelings between you and your husband sounds valid to me. What else would anyone expect? Sexual attraction and interest don’t come out of thin air. There is a back and forth in a relationship and a sum of experience that results in interest or disinterest.
I agree that there is a distinction between the kinds of assist that you make.
nocutename: Lol! Watch that typing after drinking, its dangerous! ;). But man, I *totally* hear you, but perhaps for different reasons. Whe my husband and I first started dating and I wasn’t getting mine, and I would offer to “lend a hand” when he was done, to show him how I liked it….he would basically fall asleep. To open yourself up and show someone what you look like when you masterbate is a pretty vunerable thing, and have the reaction be snores rather then excitement….well, that can make you a little gun shy. Now that he has matured a bit, he gets mad wen he catches me and wonders at my reluctance to “let him help”. Well, gee. Having someone appear bored next to you is no only a turn off, but more then a little bit insulting and hurtful.
However, I don’t know if I can 100% agree with you about DRY. Even before I realized how absolutely STELLAR sex could be, I still wanted it, YKWIM? I do beleive a poster above described it qute well as “yearning”. Even if you don’t exactly know what you are yearning for, you have it. I would think to adequately know whether she s truly asexual or not, first a medical condition or psychological block would need to be ruled out, and if neither one of those was present, and she still didn’t EVER feel that yearn or hunger….well then, yeah. I would say she is.
Personally, can’t imagine it. But, like I said, I think its one of the best things in life (perhaps THE best that can be done on a regular basis, for a reasonable cost, lol!!), and other posters have already disputed that claim. So its probably just a spectrum, and DRY is on one end, and people like me on another.
You know, badgirl, I’ve been on both ends of that spectrum. I think, if you’ve never experienced real sexual pleasure (and I mean at all), the yearning is vague and can’t be pinned-down. You might yearn for something you can’t specify, but the experience you have doesn’t lend itself to any kind of truly positive association with sex beyond an initial flutter of excitement which goes away after your genitals “shove against each other” for a while with nothing happening. The best thing about sex can easily become the feeling of emotional closeness (and once you DO know what you’re missing, if satisfaction isn’t there, it’s much harder, if even possible, to be happy with the emotional aspect, because resentment may be the primary emotion you are feeling.)
So you aren’t asexual, but you haven’t had any positive sexual input, and the yearnings resolve into other feelings or yearnings for something else. Sometimes you feel like everyone else but you is getting something that you’re missing, and you’re sad or angry or frustrated; sometimes you think that the reaction to sex is over exaggerated, and that everyone hypes it too much. But you really don’t know, so you really can’t miss it, so you really can’t want it beyond a vague sort of yearning to be included in the party.
And then, once you find out–and in a big way–you crave it all the time, because, as you’ve pointed out, it is one of THE best things that be done, and if you didn’t get it again, you would really, really miss it.
I’ve been both those people, and it’s like inhabiting alternate universes.
That’s why I initially said (way back in post #16) that I don’t think DRY has ever had an orgasm. There could be many reasons for this, some of which have already been suggested. And from her other comment about previous partners, it doesn’t sound like she’s had any pleasurable sexual experiences. She could be on medication that interferes, or her clit could be too far away from her vagina to be easily stimulated while any other sexual act is going on. Or she could need more intense stimulation than she’s gotten, or she has never been able to fully relax and be vulnerable with a trusted partner, or … Or, you all could be right, and she’s asexual. I just think that it’s worth trying a bit more, because it would be a shame to miss out on such a great experience, if it were possible.
A big component in those practicing BDSM is consent. Some say ‘Safe, Sane, and Consensual’ (SSC) while others say, ‘Risk Aware Consensual Kink’ (RACK). Regardless, it is a widely known and agreed upon credo of kinksters that consensent must be present.
With consent we are saying between that the partners involved are of the age of consent and have the mental faculties to consent to engage in this type of relationship and the consent to engage in the types of activities that turn them on.
The relationship, it’s parameters, the forms of play, the limits of each partner, and all facets of the relationship should have been negotiated with everyone the relationship involves so that everyone is able to make informed decisions.
The fact of the matter is that ‘Sparky’ and his Mistress (if she exists) did not give the writer the ability to consent to being involved in their Dominant/submissive relationship whether sexual or otherwise and THAT is just plain wrong. To that end, I would definitely inform both Sparky and his Mistress that they violated your rights to consent and that they should think long and hard about involving someone who hasn’t been part of the negotiated previously and who wasn’t given the opportunity to consent.
I think the “mommy martyr” reference is rather unfair. Nothing I said above suggests that children should always come first, or that parents should sacrifice their sex lives for the sake of their children’s needs. Rather, I’m saying that you shouldn’t inflict the pain of divorce on your kids because, for instance, sex drops from twice a week to once a week. You certainly don’t do it without seeking counseling, or negotiation and communication to solve things.
As I said above, you may choose to value your selfish physical gratification over other things, and that’s fine. However, once you choose to have kids, part of the deal is that you accept some limits on privileging your own needs above theirs. This isn’t “martyrdom”; it’s basic parenting and common human decency. I also find the idea of “mommy” martyrdom rather sexist. Isn’t dad changing the diaper or staying up with the sick kids too?
Sure, sexual incompatibility could be so serious that it weighs more heavily in the balance than any potential damage to the kids when the relationship ends. However, the problem had better be truly serious, and effort must be spent to solve it first. Otherwise–really?–why bother to marry? Why inflict your preferences on kids?
“And for those of you who mentioned upstream that sex isn’t all there is to life….well, its one of THE best things. I truly think those people who deny this, cannot have had *really* incredible, cosmic, soulful sex.”
People value different things, even when they truly understand them. Watching your kids sleep, to use someone’s silly example above, is one of THE best things too. If someone else prefers mindblowing sex to that experience, must we assume that they don’t “really” appreciate their kids? Of course not. People can enjoy and value whatever they wish. The point is that when other people are affected by their preferences, some ethical concern has to be taken.
@247 – Suzy, I agree with a lot of what you say with regard to divorce and making kids a priority, but I respectfully think you are missing the complaint. While I am sure there are assholes who would ditch their families when their spouse stopped servicing them, I don’t think that is the tone of the discussion.
Mommy-martyr, to me, means the loss of a woman’s identity for the sake of the kids. It is a common gripe among married men. They see the vibrant, intelligent, fun, exiting – and yes SEXY and sex positive – woman they married transform from “Candace” to “Jacob and Dylan’s mom.” Their facebook page becomes their kids faces. They make no time for themselves, no longer see themselves as individuals, sexy or otherwise. In the process of gaining a mom, you lose a wife.
Again, and with respect, when you say things like “you may choose to value your selfish physical gratification over other things, and that’s fine” you are conveying exactly the message that crushes the soul of the spouse with the higher libido. It is not about selfish pleasure, or not completely about that. It is about the connection, the intimacy, the fact your significant other still finds you desirable and, at least with some frequency, can’t wait to put the kids to bed and “reconnect.” Make no mistake – as Badgirl and others have pointed out, to a lot of us, sexual pleasure is one of the things that make life worth living. I just don’t see why watching my children sleep and having mind-blowing and semi-regular kinky sex must be mutually exclusive (but obviously not simultaneous 🙂
I think EricaP @222 nailed the problem by pointing out how bad guys can be at communicating and the importance of sex being more than just phyisical gratification and a hole to plug.
Tim Horton: I just wanna say…you ROCK!!! 😀
My “silly” example of watching my kids sleep…well, a big dark secret? Doesn’t really do that much for me. Again, I see happy lil’ mommies (and YES, I use the term MOMMIES, since I am living in wonderbread land, and I do not have to suffer through DADDIES waxing poetic ad nauseum on the topic) go on and on about how damned happy this makes them, and woooo. Frankly not me. Now, when one of my little dudes gets a touchdown in football, or grasps a tough science concepts, or says “I love you Mommy”…ok, that makes me go a little mushy….BUT, as Tim Horton states, it certainly doesn’t end my desire for sex, or quash the resentment I feel towards hubby that he gets to get his rocks off, and I don’t. DESPITE the “communication” and efforts put forth.
But hey!!! I DO love my kiddos (despite not going into paryoxyms of pleasure watching them snooze), so I stay with hubby, who is actually a pretty decent guy, and a great father, despite being a boring ass lay. (“Well, why didn’t you think about this BEFORE you got married, why did you have kids with him??” I was young, dumb, and made some bad mistakes, ok? Now, trapped in a situation with Scylla and Charibdis on either side, just like a LOT of married MEN!!!) And see someone on the side. Again, how some of us have decided to cope.
I would have called his mistress and asked her wtf she thought she was doing. Sometimes the dommes can really get into a fucking ego trip, especially the women, especially when they first start (and this reads pure amateur). “What the hell kind of domme are you exposing your sub to danger like that? He could lose his job or get his ass kicked violently by a pissed off husband. You are a stupid bitch and not mature enough to be a domme. You need to really think about your responsibilities and if you’re ready or not because this is amateur work lady.”
I still think the overwhelming majority of asexuals are women who haven’t been fucked properly and men who are trying to get laid by pretending they aren’t into sex and get off on being in control and making her beg after years of having to beg for pussy.
I was one of those women who thought they had orgasms but wasn’t really. I thought the nice flutters from PiV were vaginal orgasms and the ones from masturbation were just “different.” For years I thought maybe I was a dyke. I liked the idea of sex very much! I liked sex itself, sort of like how I enjoy walking my dog. Sex was like moderately pleasant exercise. I was interested about once a month (ovulation) but it was always a let down.
I fancied myself quite sexually experienced and open. Alas, having a lot of dicks in you doesn’t make you sexually experienced. At some point in my late 20s I wondered “is this it?” and decided to start advertising online for sexually experienced (and on the advice of my girlfriends, OLDER as in 40+) men to experiment and explore. I met a handful of duds but the overwhelming majority… holy crap! NOW I knew what people were on about.
wendykh@251 – I’m insanely curious: what did you put in your profile? Did you see a lot of these guys more than once? Did you get to know them and their friends, or did it stay no-strings-attached? Did you talk a lot about what you were growing to like, or did you prefer action & experimentation to talk?
DRY may have a hormone imbalance problem. If so, having it treated might increase her libido and allow her to enjoy sex like most people. She and her lover also ought to research how to provide female orgasms. The information is out there.