Three months ago, my sociopathic girlfriend dumped me because I was going into the military. Afterward, I found out she was cheating on me with a married man. The one great thing about her was that she opened me up. At 22, I’d been in only a few other relationships. The sex with her was amazing, and she opened me up to different things (kinks, dirty talk, foreplay). I’m now having a hard time finding people willing to have casual-yet-kinky sex. I tried online, but the minute someone sees the “going into the army” portion of my profile, they assume I’m some sort of conservative prick. But I am liberal and open-minded and just looking to have some NSA sex before I leave for the army. Help!
Kinky Open-Minded Soldier
If the “going into the army” portion of your profile is preventing you from finding kinky NSA sex partners, KOMS, omit the “going into the army” portion of your profile. Your NSA sex partners may, after meeting you, inquire about your future plans. But you don’t need to disclose your hopes, dreams, and political leanings to potential NSA hookups, particularly if you feel that your plans are prejudicing kinksters against you.
But I’m not sure the army portion of your profile is the issue. There are a lot of conservative kinksters out there (I hear from them whenever I tear into a conservative politician in this space), and there are a lot of liberal/hippie/NPR-
listening kinksters out there who are attracted to military guys despite their politics (I hear from them whenever they want permission to cheat on their pansy-ass, hypersensitive hippie boyfriends with gruff ‘n’ buff military guys).
Have a kinky and/or adventurous friend take a look at the rest of your profile. It could be that some other part is giving off a creepy, unsafe, or inept vibe—do you mention that you hadn’t heard of foreplay until you were 22?—and it’s that part that’s turning off otherwise up-for-army-boy kinksters.
I’m a youngish (barely under 30) woman, currently involved in a great hetero relationship: My boyfriend is caring, unlike some men I’ve dated before, and I see him as a life partner. The trouble is, I find sex profoundly boring. I get vaguely “horny” maybe twice a year, and I don’t like sex.
Now I’m starting to wonder if being sexually uninterested disqualifies me from being with my BF. Judging from your past advice, it does. Is this something I should disclose so that he can leave me? I enjoy the cuddling and kissing, talking and outings that are part of coupledom, and it pains me to think I’m doomed to be alone, forever, just because shoving genitals together sits at #48 on my life priority list.
Please let me know what I should do. He’s talking about a future together.
Doesn’t Really Yearn
Either you’ve misread my past advice to the sexually disinterested, DRY, or you’ve only read mischaracterizations of my past advice on angry asexual blogs. So once more with feeling: Being asexual or minimally sexual does not disqualify you or anyone else from having a relationship or enjoying all of the swell, non-genitalia-related things that come with coupledom.
But you can’t—you shouldn’t—mislead your boyfriend about who you are.
He has a right to know how you feel about sex before he marries you, DRY. At the moment, he assumes—and it’s an entirely rational assumption—that you’re attracted to him not just in the cuddling, kissing, talking, and outing departments, but sexually as well. That you’re not all that interested in sex with him or anyone else is something he has a right to know before marriage and/or kids.
But even if your current BF leaves you, DRY, you’re not necessarily “doomed to be alone.” There are men out there who feel the same way about sex that you do. If your boyfriend dumps you, come out as very nearly asexual and go find yourself a very nearly asexual guy who wants to cuddle, kiss, talk, and out. And if you do ultimately wind up alone, DRY, no whining: There are lots of happily partnered asexuals out there and lots of unhappy sexuals who wound up alone despite their interest in sex.
My husband and I hired an electrician, whom I will call “Sparky.” We hired Sparky once before, and he was completely professional. One quirk: He would call me “Ma’am” instead of my name.
Halfway through Sparky’s four-hour re-wiring marathon in our kitchen, he handed me an envelope and asked me to fill out a survey regarding his service. I read the following: “My name is Mistress [REDACTED] and I control the male who just gave you this letter. He and I live the lifestyle of Female Supremacy. In our lifestyle of Matriarchy, women issue direction and men obey.”
The letter went on to ask for feedback about his performance, whether he was appropriately submissive, whether he addressed me as “Ma’am” or “Mistress,” and it ended: “To obtain the best possible service, order this male to give you his key. Keep the key until you are completely satisfied with his attitude or work. Use him as you wish. He must obey.”
I don’t know much about Dom/sub culture, Dan, but I can’t shake the feeling that by hiring this particular electrician, I was unwittingly included in his sex life, and that totally creeps me out. Am I wrong? Are we judgmental prudes if we never hire Sparky ever again?
Apparently Naive Housewife
You were dragged into Sparky’s sex life not when you hired him, ANH, but when he made the choice—perhaps he felt he was just following orders—to hand you that envelope. At that point, he involved you in his sex life, which was rude and unprofessional.
Most women who aren’t interested in sharing an erotic moment with Sparky—because they’re not into Dom/sub play or not into Sparky—would feel uncomfortable reading that letter, which suddenly sexualized a nonsexual exchange of goods and services. Some women would feel deeply violated. Making women feel uncomfortable or unsafe in their own homes by springing your erotic submission on them—and requiring them to participate without first obtaining their explicit consent—is sexual aggression masquerading as erotic submission.
And it’s not okay.
Professional Dom, sex bomb, and sex blogger Mistress Matisse (www.mistressmatisse.com) agrees with me: “That’s totally inappropriate,” Matisse said in an e-mail. “Those folks did not agree, either overtly or by any action, to be involved in topping that man. If his Mistress really exists, then they are both complicit in creepiness.”
If I were you, ANH, I wouldn’t hire Sparky again. Not because I wouldn’t mind having a submissive electrician around the house—that sounds like fun, actually—but because I wouldn’t want an electrician around the house, submissive or not, who displayed poor judgment and had no boundaries.
CONFIDENTIAL TO KIMBO: It sounds like you made the right choice when you DTMFA’d that dude.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
@KOMS
OMG, KOMS called his former gf “sociopathic”. For what? For dumping him because he was going into the military. Well, it’s possible that she could have a deep-seated dislike of people in the military and it was nothing personal against him. Or it could have been a convenient excuse to be rid of him. But I note that he throws in his extra baggage (that she was cheating on him with a married man) to sway us in his favour.
And I second Dan’s comment that it’s quite possible KOMS is giving off an inept and really young vibe … ‘cuz he actually had to be introduced to the wild and totally kinky concept of “foreplay” by her!?!?!
@DRY
DRY to me really does sound asexual. I’m a bit peeved at those above (too many to identify individually) who are commenting that it’s just hormonal and that can be fixed. What if you change the condition to highly-sexed (i/o of gay or deaf) and insist that can be fixed, too. Wouldn’t that advice sound outrageous? That’s how many people were cured through barbaric medical intervention only a century ago.
So, let’s go down memory lane. Think back to before you’d even considered having sex. You’d just entered puberty and were feeling stirrings of arousal, of being attracted to boys and/or girls, and of thinking what it would be like to be sexual. You may not have had any knowledge (other than misinformation, deliberate or otherwise) about sex. You may not even have experimented by touching yourself or had an inkling of what an orgasm would feel like. But you … wanted to find out. Oh, how you yearned for it, for the touch of a person you found hot. That’s all coming from the most powerful sexual organ in the body, namely the brain.
I don’t get any hint of that from DRY’s letter. She also doesn’t say that she once had a sex drive and that it has dropped (as it can, from medication, etc.) since then. It would be wonderful if we could have access to that info, but we don’t, so must presume that – if it were valid – she would have mentioned it. However, her acronym certainly tells us that she doesn’t “yearn”, so I stand by the content of the previous paragraph.
I find it more apt to compare sex to chocolate. We all know people who could have chocolate every day because it makes them euphoric (aka “orgasmic”). Others will eat it on a regular basis and enjoy it, but it certainly won’t be the same heightened experience, though it’ll still be good. And then there will be others who could eat it now and then but who won’t go out of their way to get some. They’ll enjoy it, but are otherwise indifferent. Finally, there will be those who can’t stand the taste of chocolate, but may eat some rarely out of occasional curiosity or to be polite. Each category has different receptors on the tongue: some respond vividly to chocolate while others do not. It’s an individual biological attribute.
I also wish DRY had mentioned whether or not she does have sex with her boyfriend (even though she’s not horny except for twice yearly). If she’s having duty sex, that’s not a good place to be. But, if they’re both not having sex at all except for a couple times a year, and he hasn’t complained, then she may still end up with the romantic/ cuddly/ companionable relationship she IS interested in, if he’s on the same page. There’s only one way she’ll find out and that’s to talk with him. If he’s all for the love and companionship and doesn’t care all that much for sex either, then she (and he) won’t have to be alone.
@ANH
Dan, your advice was spot-on. I have to wonder whether or not her husband was home the first time Sparky did any work, so he decided not to present the inappropriate survey because the stand-in mistress (ANH) was not alone. Even if she’d been alone both times, she did not deserve to have a household service contract be changed unilaterally, by the person she’d hired, to include a kinky sexual overtone (and overture).
Yes, it’s true that there are many kinky professional networks in larger cities where you know you can combine kink with whatever you need (or, if you’re into BDSM that leaves marks, you can go to a doctor IN the scene who won’t automatically conclude that there’s domestic abuse involved).
But that’s not what this was. ANH has no obligation to ever hire him again and I do feel – even if it can’t be defined as criminal behaviour – it does fall under unprofessional conduct and that should be reported (if he were hired from a professional organization).
As for Old Crow (@86) who thought there was nothing wrong with this and equated it to having a gay acquaintance over who then made an unwelcome advance, that was bad behaviour but this was not a relationship issue between presumed equals. Even if we pretend that ANH seemed interested in some of the little nuances of Sparky’s behaviour (calling her “Ma’am” for one which she’s stated she found odd), and Sparky intuited that there might be a spark for further involvement (if he did, it was all in his imagination) …
… and, no, I can’t even make up a rationale where this could be initiated by Sparky, even after he’d fulfilled his original contract.
In traditional relationships involving power imbalances (prof/student; doctor/patient), the person with the perceived power must terminate the professional relationship before pursuing a personal one. And there has to be an interval between the two.
If Sparky really does have a mistress, then she is an idiot for making him risk his livelihood on his sexual quirks. She could have him doing many of the same things in front of her friends who probably share her Dom lifestyle (and could stress Sparky’s subservience by having him do them for free). If Sparky doesn’t have a mistress, but came up with this all on his own (which is also possible, because “slaves” will often create their own illusory world when they don’t have what they seek), then he’s also an idiot for the same reason. And because he lacks any sense of self-preservation. What if ANH’s husband had come home unannounced (it was a long job, after all) and found Sparky most likely on his knees begging to be used. I think there would definitely have been sparks flying!
So I’ll just end by repeating Dan’s final words of wisdom, emphasis emphasized.
Military dude just needs to get a prozzie and be done with it! Whine, whine and more whine. What kind of backwater imbecile actually thinks there IS a such thing as “foreplay?” It’s called “SEX” young man! A woman doesn’t just want YOU to get excited and put your penis in her vagina. SHE wants to get off too – which often means clitoral stimulation. Actually, it almost always means just that. Rare is the woman who gets off just on vaginal intercourse and non-existent is the woman who has an orgasm through anal sex. Try learning how to be a GOOD lover and understanding that sex is a two way street NOT A RACE and you will eventually get there. Wow, I really can’t stand stupid people, especially ones who are about to be trained to fly over to another country and shoot weapons at other human beings. Alas, the majority of the military IS stupid so that’s not a revelation.
AND… I don’t know why there are so many comments and arguments about that woman being asexual or not. Who cares? She can find someone not into sex as much as her. Why church it up? That’s ridiculous.
On behalf of the married men who want, but aren’t getting more, the problem lies with the lack of desire for more on the other end. We could talk about it till we are blue, but we don’t want an unwilling partner who yawns through an assist or checks their watch during the negotiated extra session per week.
It would be almost easier if we were married to DRY, an asexual or semi-sexual. Instead, we all had full blooded sexuals once upon a time. So it becomes hard not to internalize the lack of desire on a the man in the mirror, even if intellectually we may know it just comes standard with long term monogamy.
@154 – I love you but the fact women like you exits isn’t helping 🙂
@145 – despite what I feel and have said above, I agree. Although they need not always be mutually exclusive, selfish desires take a back seat to family.
@EricaP, Suzy, Caralain, jenesasquatch, et al. This topic is one of my favorites on SLOG, but it always gets frazzled and messy with everyone’s extended comments. I’ll try to address a bunch of things and keep with that thought (pardon the extended block paragraphs):
My wife and I average twice per week, probably for the last 5-7 years or so. During certain periods (postpartum, career changes, the passings of extended family members, etc.) that has gone to once per week for months at a time, but it usually reverts to twice per week. Vacations are nice, since the frequency bumps up a bit, but I consider twice per week to be maintenance sex, where I’m not really frustrated, but I would like it more often. During extended periods of once per week (3-4 months) I’ve noticed palpable frustration to the point where I begin to understand how people can begin to cheat. If our periods had gone on for 6+ months, I think that things would have come to a breaking point in some way: ask for permission; cheat; give ultimatums; threaten to walk. Thankfully, that’s never happened, and I’m a fairly content person who has a low to mild level of sexual frustration.
I’m a guy who plays an equal role in most things, a greater role in many things, and a slightly lesser role in the raising of two kids. In ten years of marriage, I’ve visited all the various issues surrounding our discussion; indeed, the SLOG community has also entertained them together over the last couple of years.
I’ve been married twice. Once from age 23 to 28, and now from 29 to 39. Caralein and EricaP, my first wife happened to be Chinese and over a seven year period I became conversant in Mandarin through interaction, study and travel (quite easy to learn, by the way). I’ve lost much of that, but could pick it up again in a couple of years time. Likewise, I learned conversational Spanish over a five year period of high school and college study, and both my job and living in LA have allowed me to retain much of that…same thing, I could become fully fluent in a couple years time if I set my mind to it. As an aside, I’ve tried to learn Korean, but I cannot seem to pick it up very well.
Caralain, I assume you’re asian (you like asian B-Boys, took umbrage at my earlier statement…I may be wrong there), so I can fully appreciate your characterization of the white guys who are what I would call “orientalist chauvinists”, those idiots who think asian women are china dolls, demure, pleasing, etc, and those disgusting pricks who go to east asia for sex tours. But, please, my friends have been of various races/nationalities since junior high, and I can flit between salvadoran, guatemalan, mexican, african-american, pilipino, chinese and korean communities relatively easily. My kids are hapas and my wife is korean. [Yeah, I know…ooooh, look at me, I’m sooo multi-cultural! But seriously, don’t be so condescending and jump to conclusions.]
Yeah, if I ever broke up with my wife, I think I would perfect my Spanish and Mandarin while my kids grew a bit older. Then I would probably move to either Korea, Singapore, India, China, France, Spain or Costa Rica for a few years. For example, you can live very well in India for $12,000 a year. I would take my kids along if possible, or for only the summers if not. I don’t have a tremendous amount of money, but after 17 years of working very hard I could swing that.
The real question should be what is the threshold where a person would walk away from his/her spouse? Why do people get divorced? I think that if people aren’t happy (and I’m fairly happy) in a relationship, then they should end it after the kids are a certain age. Hell, isn’t that what happens to 50+% of couples?
I’m sure I missed a few things in this tl;dr post…
@approaching 40 in LA
Idunno how to do quotey things but come on, read what you wrote again:
“Honestly, Erica, if that were the norm and the wife did not allow me to find sex elsewhere, I would get a divorce and walk to the other end of town. Then I would spend a couple years perfecting my Spanish and Mandarin and possibly move overseas (once my kids were a few years older).”
in other words- if wife wouldn’t let you find sex elsewhere you would leave and go overseas to find women (who would presumably have more sex than your wife now)
In what way does that NOT sound like a sex tourist? Even if it’s totally not true, you have to admit that sounds pretty bad.
@162: There’s a LOT more jobs in China these days than there are in the States, and both Mandarin and Spanish open up employment opportunities in countries with hundreds of million of people. I agree that the way he wrote it does sound pretty bad – I read it the way you did at first. But learning Mandarin isn’t necessarily about finding easy women.
@157:
1) I didn’t say what he did was OK. Try reading what’s there and not what you want to be there. I compared her incident to an incident in which I was sexually assaulted. (Anyone who thinks that men, including straight men, don’t rape other men is clueless.) That’s NOT saying it’s OK.
I recognize the way she feels. It’s the way I felt when I felt socially obliged to invite gay guy into my home, though he creeped me out, and although I couldn’t find any friends who’d come over so that I wouldn’t be alone with him (I tried).
2) What happened to me wasn’t an “unwelcome advance”, it was sexual assault. Are you (#157) saying it’s an “unwelcome advance” because he couldn’t overpower me? I would hope you would agree with me that if I, or any other man, started kissing a woman I was alone with, after going out of my way to avoid finding out whether she welcomed such attention, that that would be a sexual assault and not an “unwelcome advance,” and that it wouldn’t morph into an “unwelcome advance” if that particular woman happened to be physically capable of fighting me off. And the fact that I was able to fight off gay guy didn’t make what he did the equivalent of asking me whether I was interested (which would have been an “unwelcome advance”).
3) I am saying that the commenters here are more interested in punishing Sparky than in the wellbeing of ANH. One reason I didn’t call police was that their “help” would have been a bigger violation of my security than the original incident. Is it in ANH’s best interest to make a formal complaint? Maybe. But that’s for her to decide, not us. (And it’d be her word against his that this happened. 🙁 I wouldn’t want to go to authorities with nothing stronger than that.)
4) As someone who’s been there, feeling that you’re obliged to let someone who creeps you out into your home causes justified insecurity in its own right. There’s a lot of ways that someone in your home can violate you – theft, vandalism – even if they never touch you, even if you’re not worried about sexual assault in particular. ANH feels obliged to ask Dan for permission to not invite this creep into her home again. OF COURSE she’s feeling insecure and creeped out, and would even if “Sparky” had made her feel insecure in some nonsexual way.
5) Where the **** is her husband in all this, and what’s his(?) position on the matter?
In my case, the solution to my feeling creeped out was when I felt confident that gay guy would never darken my door again. That might work for ANH or it might not. But we should be giving her options, not telling her how to run her life.
@145 “Really? Having sex once per week is such an unbearable situation that a husband and father could ditch his wife and children?”
Personally, I try to be non judgemental and in particular that applies to how much sex people want. Kids certainly have a high priority, but it’s not as exclusive as some seem to think (and that insane priority isn’t good for the kids IMO). Who’s talking about “sexual gratification” – my desire if for a combination of things with my lover, and not every blue moon.
Frankly I think it’s disingenuous to claim that there isn’t a reasonable expectation of negotiated sex in a relationship where exclusivity is expected, and probably 2x pw is what’s in a lot of people’s minds (I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, it’s what the expectation is).
I am a parent and very proud of it, and have made many sacfices for the kids – and that includes going long periods without sex, which I was happy to do. I’ve also experienced mismatch in the relationship which absolutely stinks and some of the worst aspects were attitudes like you’ve expressed – that were definitely not GGG and exhibited lack of understanding. DW was well aware of my interest so try not assuming she didn’t know. I don’t think you’ve been there.
@164
There are conflicting opinions on frequency here. People say that it’s an individual assessment, that you should be the judge of what you need, that we are all different. Then people say Approaching40 is being ridiculous because he’s getting so much sex he should be able to be happy with it. I wonder if that’s because some folks think he’s a dick for other reasons. As if your right to feel what you feel is contingent on you being a good guy.
Approaching40:
I was surprised that some read your comment as you heading east for a concubine. I read that as you wanting to follow other interests and improve yourself and make a break –go experience other cultures, change your life. I read it as “here is a thing that interests me that I will pursue if my marriage ends.” After all you don’t just wake up one day and get divorced. By the time the divorce decision is made you should have clear reasons for the break (that are clear to you both) and clear ideas of what you want to do with your life instead.
“Some people would rather be shit faced and in the back row then up on the alter and stone-cold sober.” A-fucking-men Dan! Keep it up.
Regarding DRY: “I’m a bit peeved at those above (too many to identify individually) who are commenting that it’s just hormonal and that can be fixed. What if you change the condition to highly-sexed (i/o of gay or deaf) and insist that can be fixed, too. Wouldn’t that advice sound outrageous?”
Maybe DRY really is asexual; however, there really are hormonal and other medical conditions that can drastically reduce sex drive. This isn’t anything like trying to change a person’s basic orientation or desires. If DRY knows that she just doesn’t want to have sex, that’s fine–she can ignore the medical comments. However, many people could experience these conditions without knowing that a doctor visit could make a difference.
In DRY’s unique case, it’s important to point this out for two reasons. One is that she’s contemplating ending an otherwise great relationship because of this issue, so it might be worth making sure all angles are investigated first. The other is that she describes sex as “shoving genitals together”, and does claim to be aroused occasionally, if rarely. There’s a difference between being rarely aroused, but fulfilled when aroused, and disliking bad sex. The two seem conflated here, so it might be worth figuring out which is going on.
If Approaching40 had put ‘not getting enough sex’ and ‘find foreign lady’ a little farther apart, or mentioned anything else about his love for central america/east asia, it would have been easier to read it differently. Learning Mandarin isn’t specifically about picking up Chinese women, except that it is, for what I would say is the majority of white men (unfortunately). I lived in Asia last year, and 80-90% of the white men were there specifically to pick up ‘docile’ Asian girls. It’s beyond creepy and exploitative. Common quote; “It’s actually nice that I don’t speak perfect X. It’s easier to tune my girlfriend out when she’s chattering on and on”.
continued from above (Computer behaving strangely)
So if a White guy into Asian chicks doesn’t want to look like a creeper, he has to consciously make an effort to distance himself from that 80-90%.
Regarding the issue of not getting as much sex as you want from a spouse:
Approaching 40’s followup explanation was very helpful, because now it sounds like he’s not going to immediately leave his wife and kids as soon as sex becomes less frequent. I also appreciate his explanation of why he wants to learn other languages and travel. I’m sorry for jumping to totally wrong conclusions about that, given the comments about wanting to walk out.
On the other hand, I still don’t understand how leaving one’s family can be weighed so equally in the scales against the difference between one or two instances of sex per week. Even if that difference is a really big deal for some people, it still boils down to putting one’s personal physical pleasures ahead of not only the well-being of others, but also the pleasures one takes in being with one’s family and kids. People are free to decide in favor of physical gratification and nobody should judge them negatively for it. However, once you already have chosen to have the kids, it’s too late to make that choice free of judgment. What some may call “judgmental” here, I would call basic ethics.
True, kids don’t benefit when their parents are trapped in a terrible marriage. Yet children do suffer needlessly when parents place too much importance on their own selfish desires. I’ve seen so many people’s lives damaged because their parents got divorced for immature, short-sighted reasons, or never thought through the choice to have kids in the first place. The statistical facts about the risks to kids whose parents divorce certainly bear this out. Wanting a divorce because one feels noticeably more sexual frustration, even though sex is still happening once a week, strikes me as a very weak reason when compared to the damage it would cause. My palpable frustration vs. my kids’ broken hearts and perhaps lifelong struggle with relationships? Not worth it, unless the sexual problem is extremely serious and unsolvable.
So can people ethically divorce due to sexual incompatibility? I would say yes, but only when it’s serious or unsolvable, and the spouse refuses to negotiate or communicate. At a minimum one is ethically obligated to seek counseling, and to communicate everything to the spouse before walking out, hearing the spouse’s side of things and leaving room to make changes. If this is too much to ask, what business do people have getting married or having kids? I mean that seriously–not a flippant question.
@170 “can people ethically divorce due to sexual incompatibility?” I agree with your assessment that they not only can – but should do so in cases where it’s creating massive distress, for both their benefit. Sometimes the gap is too great, even after you’ve both negotiated and made your best shot at GGG bothways.
For us, I’m lucky we were able to do this, but it’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever done; refusal to negotiate and trivialising the need would actually be the showstoppers, not the sex as such – in the case where there had been an infirmity which prevented sex, that would be completely different for me. It’s the willingness to lift a finger for your spouse’s benefit – whatever they want – that’s important.
@147 As with most life(changing)events, how you think about it theoretically is quite different from dealing the reality of the event. Unless you are totally self absorbed, narcisitic douchebag, your life is never the same once you have children. For many reasons that stopped being relavent after my parents died, the thought of being a parent was total anathema to me. Intellectually Acknowleding the sacrifices required by parenthood is not the same as being willing and able to make those sacrifices.
@161: “The real question should be what is the threshold where a person would walk away from his/her spouse? Why do people get divorced? I think that if people aren’t happy (and I’m fairly happy) in a relationship, then they should end it after the kids are a certain age.”
I asked my husband last night, when he was frustrated a year ago, and stepped out, was he also considering leaving the marriage? He says, no, that didn’t cross his mind. He had no problem with me, or with the sex we were having, but he also wanted something else, something different, and didn’t feel that he could ask for that. He didn’t want more of the relatively boring, maintenance sex we were having. He wanted something else, something that would make him feel more alive. And, really, he wanted me to come along too, and wake up. He started the process by having an evening with an escort. And then he told me about it, a few months later. I wish the order had been reversed, but I understand why it happened the way it did. And I am grateful that he was brave enough to seek out the change that he needed, and that he did, eventually, trust me enough to open up to me, hoping to bring me along for the ride, but knowing that he was risking losing me. I encourage men to be brave in that way.
EricaP, do you guys have kids? I only ask because in my experience, couples’ sex lives get more boring when they have small children to care for, and I’m curious if/how you guys are able to manage. I have no children myself, and I’m reluctant to have them in part because I worry that my libido might just roll over dead in the face of that kind of stress, and I don’t want to be that girl.
Our kids are now 8 and 11. It was a conversation with Canuck last spring about how to rediscover one’s sexuality with school-age children in the home that actually sucked me into the Slog/SL community. Not only was I “touched out” from the children, they had free run to come into our bed whenever they wanted. My husband would carry sleeping kids to their beds, then wake me up for sleepy sex; I didn’t ever refuse him, but I was not the most exciting partner.
You’re right to worry about how children will affect your sex-life. It happens to lots of previously sexual women. All I can say, is that if you are open to rediscovering your sexuality, and if you set limits with the children and put a lock on the door, “it gets better.” Much better 🙂
Also, one thing that really helped jump-start more excitement was trying new times of day. Once they were both of school age, we would have sex at 8:45 am, right after I dropped the kids off. Or my husband would come home at lunch for a quickie. Like having an affair, it was fun to do it when was less about maintenance (sex before bed) and more about trying new things.
@163 (originally @86)
Colour me confused. In your original comment (quoted above), you yourself said “it wasn’t that big a deal” but now are taking offence at my use of the words “unwelcome advance” and for not recognizing that what he did to you was sexual assault (which I unequivocally agree is something that happens to everyone … children, women, men).
And, in your original comment, you were dismissing what happened to her (by using your own experience as a comparison) and it was my primary intent in my comment (@157) to affirm that her feelings ought to be respected. So I’m confused and frankly stunned, if you believe that it was my intention to be unacknowledging or unsympathetic to sexual or physical assault of you or anybody else. [That’s also why I had to scroll up to find your exact words, because your comment @163 seemed to be without antecedent.]
As for answers to ANH’s problem, we may all be embroiled in “telling her how to run her life” – but she did ask for advice (and, when one asks Dan for advice, one also gets a slew of it from Dan’s readers). Perhaps, from all of the comments, she’ll be able to piece together something that suits her.
Francesca Bimble: I can come from anal, HARD. And I am a woman.
And christ…more parent martyrs. Ugh, I get enough of that shit on my friggin’ facebook. Suzy in particular. I bet you million dollars, you are one of those people who go around proclaiming how fabulous life with chilrens is, and how much you love watching them sleep, it is the oh my god, creme de la creme moment of your existance.
Spare me. I have kids too, and yes I love them. but you know what? I love fucking too. I love fucking A LOT. And when I don’t get the kind of fucking I want, it breed RESENTMENT. The kind that boils over into all aspects of my life, including my marriage, and that in turn, effects my darling little angels!
Approaching40, and jennasasquatch….man, I feel for you guys, I really do. I live in deep wonderbread suburbia, and deal with mommy martyr bullshit like Suzy’s comments ALL THE FUCKING time. Give up your own existance and your whole goddamned life for your angels. I love them, but I can care for them better when I am not miserable. Alas, you guys are more honorable then me; I was going NUTS! I found another married man like you guys, and he ROCKS MY WORLD!
What a great column this week… I’m almost convinced there are actual asexual people out there, and not just people who can’t get off.
um and yeah… i’m not going to read all these comments, but just to back up “badgirl”. HELL YEAH girls can cum from anal. consider the clitoris the command central of all things orgasm, right. now, think of how those muscles actually start at your clit but extend through the vag walls, and how your butthole (um, i mean “anus”) shares a wall with the vag. uh duh… anal makes for awesome orgasms!!! hells bells!
I admire you, badgirl. You really say what you mean. And you take care of yourself without apology.
That said, I do feel a duty to deal with going nuts differently than you do. I don’t feel honorably superior or anything. It’s a combination of loyalty to my wife, whom I love dearly even when she hurts me, and an unwillingness until recently to even consider a life without her. That’s a mistake of course. I need to count a bit more than I have so far.
So I will stick to my vows, and stand firm with my wife and son, and try try again to change things that are making me nuts.
“I can come from anal, HARD. And I am a woman.”
Seriously, you’re fucking killing me.
“Francesca Bimble: I can come from anal, HARD. And I am a woman.”
I have my most intense orgasms from anal sex too. And I’m a woman. All the nerve endings that are there for guys exist in womens’ asses too. For the record.
Also, my point before wasn’t why do married parents with small children not get divorced because they aren’t fucking six ways to Sunday. I know small children take a lot out of you. And if you have kids and a house and a long history together, I do understand why you stay with someone 20 years into an otherwise loving relationship even if the sex isn’t great or frequent.
But DRY is not in that situation. She is young and can prioritize herself and her needs, if she wants to. (Same is true of her boyfriend.)
What I don’t understand are all these relatively young people who stay in relatively new relationships where the sex isn’t good and there seems to be little or no communication. For me lack of communication and bad sex are deal-breakers when dating.
EricaP@140, 173, 175, and 176. You point out what really matters: work on the relationship and more and better sex will follow. If you really feel a connection to your partner (and she or he feels the same connection to you), then sex becomes the most natural way to express the connection.
Thanks, EricaP. My friends with kids are either undersexed and miserable or on hiatus from their sexuality and miserable. It’s good to hear evidence from a sexually satisfied mother of school-aged kids.
Also, I’m with badgirl; I can come from anal HARD. But really, even for girls that can’t come from anal penetration alone, just add a little clitoral stimulation and, boom, most intense orgasm ever.
@170 Suzy, for me sex is more than just sex. Sex is acceptance, validation, sharing with a person I want to be with. Denial of sex is a rejection of all that (@23 is still my story, and I’m standing by it) and at some point I am going to be a better person ( and parent ) if I’m not feeling like shit about myself wondering why my wife has no interesting in fucking me. At some point it doesn’t matter whether whe doesn’t like fucking at all. She’s content with herself, doesn’t want to want more, and will dutifully take one for the team.
@ 141: Kinsey can kiss my ass.
Several months ago I ended a long term relationship because my squeeze had, for all practical purposes, decided once a month was enough. Got hooked up with an old friend who suddenly found me available, and in five weeks we’ve only missed four days. One of those was a travel day, and we’ve more than made up for the lost time. Me 64, she 60. Oh yeah, it happens. And with great gusto.
Not only am I getting laid more than I have in decades, but we actually like the same things! When I had to go out of town I bought her a cute pink vibrator. Believe it or not, she’d never had one. She likes it (in the way a kid surprised at Christmas likes a new toy), but we both know what happens when I get home. BAM!
It’s all comes down to knowing what you want, what your partner wants, and seeing what it takes to make it happen. When you come to the conclusion it’s not happening no matter what, you have to make the change. Sometimes not much fun, but you can live your whole life being unhappy while Door #3 is staring you in the face.
Dear Diary,
Who remembers a real diary? Hard bound with a small combination lock. It was white with a very innocent picture on the front. The words that were bound in that book were more about what happened that weekend than what was felt inside. Words that were incoded for no one that would actually read it. One page turned from family to unsupervised thrill. At what age does a diary turn into a journal? At what new age does a journal turn into a blog? Who tells a little girl to write down her feelings and lock them away… Who tells a grown woman to type her feelings online for everyone to read…
I cannot remember the salutation used when I was ten,
Jen
@183
Connection is not enough. Sex is one out of many ways to express connection. Feeling deep connection is an end in itself. There is incredibly deep connection in my marriage. However sex has it’s own thermostat and sex finds itself in very different places on people’s priority lists.
badgirl, pirate jenny, chicago girl:
Getting fucked in the ass is one of the most pleasurable experiences for men too. I haven’t had a man since the early 80’s so you can imagine where that is on my to do list if my life takes a new direction.
Getting fucked in the ass is one of the most pleasurable experiences for men too. I haven’t had a man since the early 80’s so you can imagine where that is on my to do list if my life takes a new direction.
YOU TELL GOOD STORIES. 😀
(I don’t suppose your wife would be any more amenable to pegging you than she is to “normal” sex…? Could be a nice compromise…)
@190
She’s plugged me before but we don’t have a strapon. My sense is she wouldn’t go that far. Incidently since so many of you ladies tell stories of bad male anal behavior: the first time she toyed me she pretty much just lined it up and then shoved it home. So it’s not just a guy thing.
@186 – Congratulations! Glad you’ve had five weeks of fantastic sex and that you’ve found a partner who rocks your world.
I think Kinsey’s stats are more about long-term relationships, though, so check in with us again in a few years and let us know you’re still having daily sex.
@191 – at that point, had she ever had something in her butt? I think things change once you can picture what the recipient is feeling in there…
(Oh, and put me in the camp described by chicago girl – I don’t come from anal (or vaginal) penetration alone, but anal plus clitoral = “boom” 🙂
@193
No she hasn’t experienced it and she never will. She has pain from tearing during childbirth.
And to anticipate the next question, PIV feels great to her. It’s clear that 12 years post-childbirth that her pain could have been worked on considerably by now if she had any inclination to do so.
@189
“Getting fucked in the ass is one of the most pleasurable experiences for men too.” Well, shit, of course it is! I think people get the idea that women don’t enjoy anal sex as much as men because we don’t have prostates–which are, to my understanding, about as pleasurable to a man as a clitoris is to a woman. I’ve never known a man who didn’t enjoy at least a finger in the ass.
@ 192 – Well, my point wasn’t so much that suddenly I’m getting laid every day. (Which, hey sure is fun!) My point was that most of us too often settle into long-term situations that prove to be unrewarding or unfulfilling, yet we’re unwilling to bust out of them.
Could be for a number of reasons: security, kids, whatever. But sex is the rock bottom basis of all communication. I don’t see how anyone can possibly build a relationship when the most basic of foundation cornerstones is weak or not there at all.
Also, I’m realistic enough to know that hittin’ it every day for years may not be possible (or even probable). But for now it’s nice to once again be the guy “getting sex four times a week or more.” If that’s only 1% of men in their 50s, what do you think it is in their 60s? And WHY do you think that is? Seems to me most guys in their 60s are still interested, and most women are not.
@ jenesasquatch – Take her “gift shopping” at Babeland. Casually drop by the harness/strap-on section, and have the ever-helpful employees wax glowingly about the lovely merchandise. Discuss style, color, washability. Then step away and give your wife a chance to peruse the merch on her own. No pressure. She might surprise you.
@197
You don’t need a prostate for sure. Perineum, outer anus, just inside the anus, rectum. It’s all good. If anything the prostate is so sensitive that I find it too distracting when stimulated. You need to curl your fingers the other way.
@198
You haven’t met my wife. That’s not a shopping trip she’d go on.
One time I got her a “We Vibe” and she took that as a message to go fuck herself. Eventually she calmed down and found that she enjoyed it. Marriage is hard work. Good things happen if you hang in there.
@198, I think people need to find a middle ground that works for them. Sex is a kind of connection, and it reinforces other kinds of connection.
It’s unrealistic to expect long-term relationships to be as sexually exciting every year as new relationships. I would hope people who love their partners could go through a bad year (new baby, chemo treatments, aging parent to be cared for) and trust that the sex would return to happier levels later. But I urge guys who need more sex to take their needs seriously when the frequency declines from x to 1/2 x, and have the conversation then. Say: I know this is a rough time, and I will be there for you however you need. But let’s talk about how to get back to a frequency of x in a few months – what would have to change to make that appealing to you?
I can definitely see how some of my statement/comments could be interpreted in ways that I did not intend (for example, that I am actually contemplating leaving my family or that I am a chauvinist asianophile user), but I also think some others are projecting a lot more than they should.
EricaP asked me a pointed question before (“Where would you go?”) and I responded in a way that probably reflected too much from the discussion a few weeks ago, where a guy in his mid thirties was taken to task on his over-inflated sense of desirability. I was attempting to state that there are sometimes options for middle aged guys who have put many of their aspirations, dreams and interests aside for the sake of their families/wives. I didn’t think EricaP was asking “who would you go to?” in the sarcastic tone that characterized SLOG a couple weeks ago and which many of the younger women on here seemed to think she was (from what I have read from EricaP over the last year that she’s been on, I know that that’s not her style…if anything, she always draws people out and gains far more insight). It’s tough to be called a possible sleaze or creep, but I’ll leave it at that.
Anyway, I made a too-bold statement near the middle of the posts that said I would probably walk if the frequency went to once a week or less, but then qualified that in a later statement (shit hit the fan then). Thinking it over a bit, I would rather say that, in my marriage, I’ve noticed a correlation between the frequency of sex and the degree that my other physical/emotional intimacy needs are being met by my wife. In that respect, sexual frequency can probably be used as a barometer.
I would also say that I am the more consistently giving partner on the intimacy, affirmation and support front, let alone a husband who takes care of more than his share of family matters and issues. This is probably also the case for many of the men who have posted above.
Would I leave my wife if the frequency went to once or less over a 6+ period? If that were the scenario, and having exhausted the other possibilities, I think I would…because I judge myself the more giving partner in the relationship, I have personal dreams that I could pursue, and this man’s tangible sexual frustration could very well be the straw that broke the camel’s back. I get by fairly well and am usually content, but like all marriages, there are always imbalances…the 50% divorce rate signifies that.
@202 – thanks for the kind words. This: “sexual frequency can probably be used as a barometer [of intimacy]” – is well put. Especially if you include offering other kinds of sexual affection rather than just counting how often you have intercourse.
@201EricaP. And what about the possibility that the frequency (and quality) can increase when the kids are grown up and out of the house? This does happen! Even to couples in their 50’s and beyond.
@158 While reading your comment, I had quite the existential moment.
Apparently… I don’t exist!
“…non-existent is the woman who has an orgasm through anal sex.”
I also think someone else upthread made a really good point when they said that it’s not necessarily about the lack of sex, it’s about the lack of compromise.
When I was married, I was very, very explicit with my husband about what I needed in order to be happy. I didn’t hint around or try to manipulate him: I flat-out told him, for instance, “it’s really important to me that you make a fuss over me on my birthday. This is something I need in order to feel loved” (…and also, take care of me when I’m sick, and tell me I’m pretty sometimes, and yeah, regular sex was something that came up, too).
Well, no matter how many times I told him I felt neglected and unloved, my ex kept on ignoring my birthday (and ditching me to go out drinking all night when I was sick, and going eight months at a time without touching me in any remotely sexual way).
I left, of course…and now I’m with someone who actually wants to make our relationship work (even if it means he has to put in effort! *gasp!*).
So, for those of you who think it’s petty to leave someone because you want more sex…remember that in most of these cases, the frustrated party did try to discuss his or her unhappiness and ask for some sort of compromise…and the other person just went “nope!” and kept on living their life the exact same as before.
When your partner openly doesn’t give a shit about your happiness, that’s a completely valid reason to leave. The most valid reason, really. Especially if you have kids (who tend to take their parents’ marriage as an example of what romantic relationships are “supposed” to be like!).
Well said perversecowgirl!!! Some of us cheaters even tried the ol all powerful and much hailed “communication” route before we became CPOS.
And thank you for your kind words jenesasquatch. (BTW, you DO have some great stories it sounds like, lol!!!) I would like to state for the record that I am not *proud* to be the aforementioned CPOS-I am proud to be a sex-positive slut, lol! But…I hate lying and the deception involved to get my needs met. I really wish we lived in a society where it was recognized that SOME people do not get all of their needs met within the confines of marriage, and if a lover was taken, people were just discreet about it, or hell, accepting. It all comes down to the parent-martyr bit I was talking about about. Our society seems to view the family as the end-all be-all of existance, when parenting is HARD. Marriage is HARD. Its soooooo wonderful to have a brief respite/escape every once in a while. Perhaps that is how my lover and I have maintained this white-hot passion for all these years….we do NOT have the pressures of domesticity sucking the lust out of our relationship. If you are one of those ever so lucky couples who manage to do it within the confines of marriage and family…..well, more power to ya. Frankly, I am seriously jealous, and I bet dollars to donuts you are in the minority.
Hell, I was speaking to my lover about this the other night, and I asked him if he would be ok with his wife taking on another man openly if it would allow him to keep me. And he said yes….wow….in my dreams. I would love us all to go have drinks, and end the lies!!! I have told my husband he can do what he needs to do; I know how tough family life can be. I would like for him to have the escape as well, but he flat out refused. I love the break, just hate the lies. I jst wanted to point out that while I am a CPOS, I am not quite the douchebag who is proud of it. I wish I could be open about it.