I’m a 22-year-old FTM. I will become a legal male this summer. WOOT. Useless hole but still no pole. My friends—all straight—don’t know because I don’t feel it matters. I don’t know any other FTMs, and I really don’t care to. However, I like men. I have never had a boyfriend. I go to gay clubs, flirt, dance, and make out with other gay men. But when I am up front about being FTM, I never hear from a guy again. My question is, when do I tell a gay man I have been flirting with that I am not a bio male? I don’t want to deceive them, but I at least want a chance for them to get to know me first.
No Pole, No Go
The first thing Buck Angel—trans activist, public speaker, and porn star—wanted to say, NPNG, was congrats in advance on becoming a legal male. The second thing Buck wanted to say was that hole of yours isn’t useless.
“If he isn’t familiar with my work, maybe he should check it out,” said Buck (www.buckangel.com). “I get tremendous pleasure from my hole. Whether a transman plans on getting a penis or not, there still has to be a time that he realizes that what’s between his legs does not define who he is.”
It seems to me that time—the time you realized that you’re not defined by what’s between your legs—had to have come before you began transitioning, NPNG, otherwise you wouldn’t be transitioning. As for how the guys you’re meeting in gay bars feel about what is or isn’t between your legs, Buck has some advice for you about that, too: “If he meets a guy and tells him about himself—which is the right thing to do—and he doesn’t hear back, then that wasn’t the right guy for him.”
If you’re not having any luck with messy face-to-face meetings/make-out sessions in gay bars, Buck suggests you consider online dating.
“If he’s looking to hook up,” said Buck, “here’s a site where he can start: www.ftmlover.com. He’ll see that there are tons—and I mean TONS—of men out there who are interested in guys like us!”
But before you start meeting those guys, NPNG, Buck thinks—and I agree—that you have to become more comfortable in your own skin. “Be proud of your body,” said Buck. “When you feel confident that you are a man, no one can tell you otherwise.”
And do you know what might help you feel more confident? Getting to know some other trans guys.
“There are many reasons that someone might isolate themselves from other trans and gay people,” said Ezra Goetzen, a mental health therapist and trans community activist. “Some folks identify as male-to-male, seeing their transition as a medical procedure rather than a path to a transgender identity. Others, due to the fabulously flattering cultural/media images of trans people in general, internalize the shame, indifference, and disgust—and they don’t want to be reminded of these feelings by hanging out with other trans people.”
Whatever your particular reason for avoiding transmen, NPNG, you’re doing yourself a disservice.
“Being isolated from other trans folks leaves little room to find support and role models for loving yourself,” said Goetzen. “And it makes getting invaluable tips on how to get laid safely and carefully harder.”
Getting married soon. We want to put a note in the invitation requesting donations to organizations fighting for marriage equality in lieu of gifts. Which organization is fighting the hardest/most effectively in your view?
Gonna Get Married
Freedom to Marry (www.freedomtomarry.org), National Center for Lesbian Rights (www.nclrights.org), and GetEQUAL (www.getequal.org)—and thanks and congrats, GGM!
I’m wondering whether you have any thoughts on the male tendency when sharing “naughty” photos to go straight for a close-up shot of the penis. Representative Anthony Weiner’s tweeting disaster has brought to mind a number of recent cases where high-profile men—such as Brett Favre—sent other women similar shots in an apparent attempt to seduce them. However, the response I’ve heard from women to such offerings can be summed up as “Ew, yuck!” Do you have any insight on why some men think this sort of overture would work?
Totally Confused Female
Some men think this sort of overture works, TCF, because sometimes it works.
Before we get into that, I want to say a few words about Anthony Weiner: Nothing the gentleman from New York said last week made him sound like a man who hasn’t taken a picture of his cock at some point and sent it to someone for some reason. Nevertheless, I’m confident that Weiner is going to beat this thing.
Watching Weinergate unfold is like watching the voters-getting-over-politicians-who’ve-smoked-pot story play out all over again, only this time at warp speed and with sexting standing in for THC. With pot, we went from exposure resulting in an instantaneous resignation in 1987 (Supreme Court nominee Douglas Ginsburg) to a tacit admission being a survivable mini-scandal in 1992 (Bill “Smoked, Didn’t Inhale” Clinton) to a collective shrug in 2008 (Barack “I Got High” Obama). With dirty pol pics, we’ve gone from instant resignation in February 2011 (Representative Christopher “Craigslist Congressman” Lee) to a tacit admission looking like a survivable mini-scandal in June 2011 (Representative Anthony “Beat This Thing” Weiner). At this rate, we’ll be shrugging off the dirty pics of Rep. TBD sometime before Labor Day.
Getting back to your question, TCF: The cock-shot overture doesn’t work on most women, I’ll grant you, but guys who send cock shots aren’t interested in most women. They’re interested in the sort of women that this sort of overture works on. And the sort of men who think only with their dicks—and not all men are that sort—figure the quickest way to determine if a woman is that sort of woman is to send the cock shot. And one of the women you talked to about cock shots may have been that sort of woman, TCF, but told you, “Ew, yuck!” because it was clear from the “Ew, yuck!” look on your face that “Ew, yuck!” was what you wanted to hear.
Gentlemen: The existence of a handful of women who welcome cock shots does not give you license to send cock shots to all women. Cock shots are for women who have expressed a clear and unambiguous interest in receiving cock shots.
Speaking of Buck Angel: Documentary filmmaker Dan Hunt (Cruel & Unusual, Dangerous Living, Bear Run) has been following Buck for six years and now needs to raise $6,000 to hire an editor to help him shape his new film. Please join me in helping Hunt to finish Mr. Angel by making a donation via Kickstarter:
www.tinyurl.com/3d8wmtf.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
The best part was when he said he sent the pic as a joke. Most of us guys would prefer not to think of our cocks as jokes…
Of course, gay men love cock shots!
I’m really starting to pity straight men.
Million dollar rings, loss of career, reworked prenups- who needs it.
I can fuck 100 times and it wont cost me a dollar.
“I’m confident that Weiner is going to beat this thing.” I think Dan made an unintended funny. LoL
I feel bad for Weiner. The underwear photo that is termed lewd was more of a suggestive tease than anything else. The chest pictures were nice also. I would say that his only wrongdoing here was to his wife, but no one outside of their marriage knows the terms of their relationship. He’s being publicly chastised for something that really wasn’t that bad, and many people have done. Yes, he’s in a public position, but that doesn’t make him sexually neutered.
NPNG needs to get himself a nice strap-on “pole” if he doesn’t already have one, and tell these gay men that while he’s not equipped exactly like them, he does have a cock and can fuck and suck just like they do. Added bonuses: can choose just the right size and never any erectile issues!
Here’s a comic about a gay dude dating a trans man for the first time: http://www.billroundy.com/me1.html
NPNG should find some trans community and work on his depression, and the getting laid will resolve itself.
Dan…you’re kidding, right? That kind of juvenile behavior from someone currently in politics is terrible judgment; it’s not at all like having smoked pot in the past (not even like smoking pot regularly still). This is like Spitzer, or Edwards–it reveals a self-destructive streak a mile wide, which is something we need to be concerned about in our politicians (just think how screwed we would have been if Edwards had been the nominee). They’re public figures, they know they’re probably going to get caught sooner or later (hey, maybe even the French do, now), and it’s usually the most self-righteous ones who are doing this stuff (which makes it even likelier they’ll get caught), but still they think they have a right to act like teenagers in Fort Lauderdale on spring break–anything goes. NOT a good sign.
Catballou–you think a newly married guy needs to be neutered to not send crotch shots to twenty year old girls? Really?
Please get your blog feeds straightened out. I want posts from Dan Savage, not 20+ posts a day from other people.
I thought the cock pic was hot, certainly moreso than the chest & sitting on the couch pics. A lady speaking.
This is such a shame. As a woman online, I get a lot of unsolicited cock shots. A bump in someone’s Jockey shorts – I’d have forgotten about that in about 15 seconds. But this guy panics and lies, again and again. Now his whole life is ruined over a total nonissue.
As a gay man living in Brooklyn, I feel it is my civic duty to see Anthony Weiner’s penis. I promise to appreciate the experience.
@2: I’m pretty sure that 100 instances of fucking of any sort will end up costing you a dollar along the way for lube, condoms, or other miscellanea.
Sorry, but I don’t buy it. I think guys who send cock shots through IM or whatever to women they barely know aren’t weeding out potential dates, they want a little thrill, like flashers do (and don’t tell me they’re looking for that special someone who likes seeing a man’s butcher window on display while jogging at 8 a.m.)
And oddly, I also don’t even think the guys who send cock shots would be thrilled to get close-ups of strange women’s gaping vaginas (think United Colors of Benetton ads here).
Dan says, “…Guys who send cock shots aren’t interested in most women. They’re interested in the sort of women that this sort of overture works on.”
By which I *assume* he means, these men are looking for women who like sex, who are willing to have sex quick, and who are titillated by explicit pictures. However, he’s wrong to assume that 100% pro-cock-shot sentiment exists even amongst that group. I’d count myself in that group, for instance, but I don’t like the unsolicited cock-shot any more than most women do. I prefer more of a naked, aroused, full-body shot, or (even better!) a partially-clothed, obviously aroused, full-body shot.
So, photo of shirtless, sweaty guy in tight jeans? Oh, yeah. Naked penis shot? Um, whoa. Sometimes yes, I admit. But generally, I like *men,* not just their junk. I want to see the man in the picture. It adds *everything* to the allure.
So, for once, I think Dan is wrong. These guys are weeding out women they don’t mean to at all.
@14 i have to agree completely. An unsolicited close-up dick pic is generally kind of a hostile gesture. And honestly, I don’t care who’s sending it to me…it’s the very rare penis picture that really captures my fancy. Unless you have a truly spectacular package, it’s generally not going to be a turn on all by itself.
Count me among the “Eeeyew, Yuck!” contingent on the cock shots. I totally agree with #8 and #14.
ADDING: I also agree with #15!!!
It’s not weird or uniquely female to not appreciate dick shots. Look at softcore straight porn for dudes and it’s usually full or nearly full body shots, not just extremely zoomed in cropped photos of just nips or gaping vag or whatever. That said, Anthony W’s dick photo was pretty hot as far as dick photos go: boner concealed by attractive boxer briefs? yes please.
The other component that, unfortunately, remains important in analyzing why your average woman doesn’t react to a cock shot in a parallel fashion to how your average man reacts to boob shots is that while some men send cock shots because they’re looking for the sort of woman who will react positively to them, some men send them to threaten women, and some men send them because they get off on the idea of women being shocked/horrified/afraid (flashers aren’t looking for the sort of women who like getting flashed, for the most part). So even women who might otherwise enjoy a cock shot might not react completely positively unless they’re confident in the non-hostile intentions of the man who sends it.
A man sending a woman a cock shot is like a woman offering a man an evening of talking about his feelings.
To a woman, sending a cock pic is lazy. Not to mention cocks are readily available to women, so you’re not offering anything they can’t already get on their own. To a man, talking is annoying. A man doesn’t need a woman’s emotional validation, so offering it is about as attention grabbing as giving ice to Eskimos.
Women, if you want a man, send him naked pics.
Men, if you want a woman, pretend you are unconvinced that you would like to spend more time with her, then allow her to talk to you for a couple hours until she’s convinced she managed to keep you there only because you’re incredibly interested in her unique perspective.
Or, be powerful or rich enough that a woman will accept cock pics as a means to getting to your wealth/power. Just don’t be upset when the women who like your cock shots turn out to be more interested in money/power.
Note, in particular, that at least some of the women Rep. Wiener sent cock pics too kept talking to him, and then went to the tabloids.
“To a man, talking is annoying.”
Haha! Sorry to hear you’re dumb and boring.
I’m a woman and I have specifically asked for cock shots.
I am a woman and I have been specifically asked for pussy shots. Over and over and over. Really? really?
Weiner (heh) could easily have avoided this whole thing by using anonymous accounts that weren’t linked to his true identity. He’s not really that big of a celebrity that women would have recognized him if he’d taken any effort to prevent it. How many of us could have picked him out of a line-up two weeks ago?
What does it say about him that he would risk so much when he could have avoided it and still sexted? Did he want to get caught?
Dan, you are not a woman, so you do not know this… we women do NOT like to see close up images of genitals. PERIOD.
Yes, there are women who are into sexually forward men. Perhaps receiving a cock shot would be an indicator that the man in question is sexually forward, and thus some women would be into his personality. However, I promise you, that women is definitely NOT into the actual photo of the man’s DICK. Only men like to see genital photos.
As for women who welcome cock shots… I have done some cruising on fetlife and other such sites, and I have never seen any female profiles that welcome cock shots. I suppose a few may exist… if so, those women are probably even less common than cannibal fetishists.
Women like to have sex with people, women are not interested in sex with disembodied body parts. Remember this, straight men. Please.
Add this one to the all-of-western-civilization-is-a-footnote-to-Kanye-West file:
She find pictures in my email
I sent this bitch a picture of my dick
I don’t know what it is with females
But I’m not too good at that shit
@ 5 — That comic is adorable. And yeah, I’m a cis gay guy who has dated trans men; there are at least some of us who just don’t see it as a big deal.
@ 26 — You clearly haven’t talked to some of my female friends. True, most of my female friends don’t want to see random cock shots, but neither do most of my (mostly flaming-as-hell) male friends. The exceptions, though, are enough for me to be more than skeptical about your generalizations. Are you trying to erase the women who do like cock shots, or is that just a side-effect of your gender-essentialist bullshit?
@26- Yeah, agreed. I’d be into receiving a cock shot from a guy I already liked a lot. I’d get off on how assertive he was being. But I’d never, like, whack off to the actual image of his wang or anything like that. The sentiment would be hot, not the actual image.
@26 I am a woman, and I decidedly do not remember voting for you to speak for me or for all women everywhere. I must have missed that Women Who Want To Be Lumped Together And Boiled Down To A Few Generalizations By A Self-Appointed Spokesperson Whose Only Qualification Is Her Gender meeting.
@21 Same as above, absent the statement of (tenuous) gender qualification.
@15 Why do you *assume* Dan is talking about you when he clearly stated that he isn’t? Why would you redefine the phrase “the sort of women that [the cock-shot] overture works on” to mean “NOT the sort of women that the cock-shot overture works on, but the sort of woman who considers herself to be otherwise open about sex.” If you are not the sort of woman this sort of overture works on, then you have decidedly less call to speak for this group than @26 does about All Women. You certainly don’t have a good reason to assume that the defining characteristic of this group must necessarily be eliminated from the definition!
My younger brother is a transman, also into guys, and he’s recently started dating a cute boy who he found out — before they started dating but several weeks after they met — is also trans. I’m with Dan on encouraging NPNG to get to know some other trans guys; besides the benefits already mentioned, feeling attraction for a *man* who, like you, was born without a pole, might help build confidence that others can be attracted to you similarly.
And from the couple of gay trans guys I know (who’ve been in the dating pool longer than my brother), there really are plenty of gay guys who are happy to date/fuck trans guys. The hit rate is going to be lower, especially at a random bar, so don’t let rejections drag you down… keep casting your net and you will start snagging some good ones.
I’m a woman, and the “type” of woman who enjoys cock shots. What can I say – I love cock. Love looking at it. Love sucking it. Don’t think cocks are “ugly” or “gross.” I guess I’m in the minority on that?
@26 generalizations are dangerous, and you are dangerously stupid. Unless you’ve spoken to 100% of straight women out there, and you haven’t spoken to me, shut the fuck up.
You guys are missing the other fundamental point of the cock-shot, it is revealing and simultaneously anonymous.
Any picture showing a face or even a full body pic that stops at the neck is pretty easy to identify. A guy who has something to lose, such as a wife, a career and an election, may prefer to send a cock-shot because the number of people who can stand up in court and say – ‘I recognise that penis!’ is hopefully fairly small.
The cock shot is similar to the flash a not-quite-stranger might produce. Obviously, your phone number or email has been given, but generally, unsolicited pix of an erect cock and only that are not the overture MOST women are receptive to. Having been on the receiving end of both the flash and the pic, not so exciting and kinda creepy. However, if already interested, and the pix include full frontal, I am all for it. Stalkers send unsolicited erection pix, not paramours.
We were talking about sending cock-shots on The AV Club on a thread about – no kidding – Axe bodyspray.
Someone brought up the good point about how the majority of men (the 90% of guys who *aren’t* Stranger-reading, Sensitive New Age Guys) think that what women find attractive is what other men find attractive, or the “female version” of it. An example is a friend’s sister who went to a bar and had every guy that hit on her (about 8) tell her what make and model of car or truck they drove as one of the first things that they thought would impress her. Oh, and how tough they were and how no guy in the bar could beat them in a bar fight (I suggested she should have gotten all those guys into a free-for-all, trying to beat each other up to prove their worthiness to her while she left via the back door. Oh well).
As a lot of straight fratboy dbag guys would LOVE to have an unsolicited pussy pic sent to them as a first contact on a dating site, a lot of them figure that a woman therefore must LOVE the idea of getting a cock pic (and if they don’t, then she must be frigid/a dyke/a feminazi). I would never be friends with guys like that so it’s easy to believe that they don’t exist. But believe me, the guys I’ve worked with and played sports with over the years prove that not only do they exist, but they do so in large numbers. Yikes.
The good news is that many grow up, gain more experience, and eventually realize that what women want is not the same as what men want. But some of them don’t learn. The amount of women I’ve known or met who are on “normal” dating sites only looking for a long-term relationship, specifying that one night stands, NSA scenarios, or casual dating are off the table – well, the number of them who get one-line “you’re hot” emails with cock pics is pretty astonishing. I guess a lot of these guys send out a couple hundred of those emails a day hoping that eventually, statistically, someone somewhere must react positively. I mean, it happens in those porn vids, right?
*and I do think that there’s nothing wrong with sending cock or pussy pics, but there has to be an expectation that the person *wants* to receive them. Know your audience.
@32 Yes. What you said. Exactly.
Whenever I hear women say, “Penises are so ugly!”, I believe that many–not all, perhaps, but many–are simply parrotting what they’ve heard everyone else say all their lives. The problem with socialization of this nature is that we’ll never know how many women would actually think cocks were beautiful if we weren’t raised in a society that tells us to think that way because it’s afraid of female sexual desire. I could go on…but I’ll stop.
Also, I agree with everything 30 and 33 said in response to 26. See the paragraph above where I talk about socialization, and then don’t shove your socialized gender beliefs onto me.
Now somebody send me some cock shots!
Men send cock shots because really, we have no better ideas. We’re men, we’re just not that smart.
@28 I’m not trying to erase anything. I simply believe the female mind works differently than the male mind in some ways. I personally have never seen any woman who goes online looking specifically for cock shots from random strangers. There are probably a few exceptions to this, or maybe there are more exceptions than I am aware of.
@30 Yes, I made a generalization about women not enjoying genital photos. Nobody got insulted when I made a generalization that men DO enjoy these sorts of photos. Anyway, I still believe my generalization is fairly accurate. I admitted there are probably exceptions out there, but speculated that they are more rare than cannibal fetishists. Unfortunately I doubt anyone is doing hard statistics about this sort of thing, so I can’t be proven right or wrong about this.
@33 Saying generalizations are dangerous is a generalization about generalizations. Some of my best friends are generalizations and they happen to be harmless.
Sorry people, I can’t help but be annoyed by the sheer amount of cock shots that exist. Many men seem to think that is a good way to introduce themselves to a stranger. This strategy probably works much, much better for men like Weiner, who are famous and powerful, and who also include other parts of their body in their photos. I can see why women would want to see cock shots of somebody they know something about, but… to get it from random strangers? Gross.
I don’t think I’m stepping on the toes of some kind of invisible repressed minority with these statements. Women will receive random cock shots, wether they want to or not.
Please, please, can we call it a tallywhacker.
Then do the identity parade for the mole.
@37 shahnahnah
Email address please.
@GGM – the appropriate place to request gifts is on your wedding website or through word of mouth. The invitations themselves should include no mention of presents 🙂
Also, I would be cool with cock-shots GIVEN that I am interested in the guy. But I would wager that of my friends, I am a VERY distinct minority.
The problem, TheLastComment, is how your comment was worded:
“Dan, you are not a woman, so you do not know this… we women do NOT like to see close up images of genitals. PERIOD.
Yes, there are women who are into sexually forward men. Perhaps receiving a cock shot would be an indicator that the man in question is sexually forward, and thus some women would be into his personality. However, I promise you, that women is definitely NOT into the actual photo of the man’s DICK. Only men like to see genital photos.”
So what you’re saying is that even if a woman CLAIMS to be into cock shots, she’s STILL not into the actual cock–she’s into the personality that would send a cock shot. In your follow-up comment, you say that you originally admitted there are exceptions to the not-liking-cock-shots norm, but you actually didn’t. You said that no woman anywhere ever ACTUALLY likes pictures of a man’s dick. I think that’s where the issues with your original comment lie.
@43 You are correct. I said women don’t like cock shots, PERIOD, then I contradicted myself in the same post by saying there are exceptions.
And yes, I did say there are exceptions in the original post… let me quote the last paragraph, since you seem to have forgotten to do so.
“As for women who welcome cock shots… I have done some cruising on fetlife and other such sites, and I have never seen any female profiles that welcome cock shots. I suppose a few may exist… if so, those women are probably even less common than cannibal fetishists.”
I suppose I wasn’t thinking clearly when I wrote that. If I was a little more careful with my words I wouldn’t have worded everything in such extreme, black and white terms. It was 3 in the morning, and I suffered from a knee-jerk reaction. An advice columnist I like was advising men that the cock shot strategy actually works. I suppose there is nothing wrong with that advice in itself, but I just know some idiots out there will interpret this column as a license to spam their penis all over the place.
“So what you’re saying is that even if a woman CLAIMS to be into cock shots, she’s STILL not into the actual cock–she’s into the personality that would send a cock shot.”
Not really, I never said that what women are thinking is contrary to what they claim. I’m saying that how a woman interprets something is often different than how a man interprets the same action. Men can think women are into them because of some stupid formula or strategy they are using, and be oblivious to the fact that the women who respond positively to him are responding for entirely different reasons.
I believe the type of men who post a lot of cock shots are more interested their own sexual gratification, which they receive by posting cock shots, than they are interested in finding out what the women they are targeting actually want.
If a woman claims they love cock shots (and a couple have already done that in these comments), I’m not going to deny that. I believe you.
Do you mind if I ask what it is that you like about cock shots? Does looking at them turn you on? There are plenty of men who masturbate to this sort of thing, but I always got the impression that most women are not turned on by images such as this.
Just to be clear, I’m not disgusted by the male body, and I have absolutely no objection to the naked penis.
NPNG, Maybe you shouldn’t be trying to date exclusively gay guys. Maybe you’d have luck with a straight guy who might find a use for that hole of yours. Or, even better yet, you might find a bi guy who thinks you’re the best possible combination in the world. He would get both female and male all in one package.
To the transguy: He will probably have better luck with semi-straight guys who are curious about men than with gay guys. A gay guy would think of him as a woman (I would). For example, I wouldn’t mind fucking a man-turned-into-woman (with or without a penis), or a sort of effeminate man, and in some cases even a woman. But a woman-to-man suggests to me a dominant woman, that is somehow a turnoff.
@44 – As one of the above women who “claimed” to love cock shots – they do turn me on, I do look at them while masturbating, the images themselves turn me on, not just that they are indicative of some sort of sexual aggression on a man’s part.
@45 (Root)….
Depending on where NPNG is on the trans spectrum, what you are saying is potentially impossible. For someone more genderqueer than trans, this might be okay, but for someone that is really, really heavily invested in a stereotypical male image for themself, this is impossible.
On that note, I disagree with Buck Angel, I would tell NPNG to avoid the Trans community, actually, if he wants to date. Spend as little time as possible there. At least, the internet community that exists. They are incredibly, incredibly hard judges, very narrow-minded and while they do have information it’s been my experience that they only dole it out to people willing to jump through enough hoops and “pass” with the community. I’ve seen (first-hand) the community push someone that was on the genderqueer spectrum into claiming a much more masculine identity and basically shut off avenues for that person in order to force that person to indirectly validate the decisions of others in that community. I’d highly encourage NPNG to talk to the genderqueer community instead if they can. Much more easy-going, much less agenda, but rather less active (you knew there had to be a downside).
As for answering his question — don’t tell people for a while. Go on a couple of dates. Let them get hot and heavy, but don’t “go for it” — let them salivate at the thought. Once they are thinking about how hot sex is going to be with you, once they’ve built it up in their minds how awesome it’s going to be, when you tell them it’s going to be “different” they are probably a lot more willing to work with the limitations of the unexpectedly missing penis. Because, if they’ve stuck around at this point, they are thinking about having sex with YOU first, and your penis second (btw, do yourself a favor and find one you love, love, love, and then get used to it on your own.)
I think you’re a little wrong about the cock shots, Dan. I don’t think all guys who send cock shots are specifically looking for women who like cock shots. Maybe some of them are, but the vast majority of men who send cock shots genuinely believe that a shot of their cock is what *all* women want to see. Why is this? Because they are kind men who are brought up on the golden rule, and shot of the woman’s pussy is exactly what they’d like to see. They’re returning the favour in advance by sending a shot of their cocks, and are bewildered when it doesn’t go over as well as they’d hoped.
It’s sort of sweet, if you squint.
But I am extremely skeptical of your claim that men who send cock shots are trying to find women who like cock shots. This is probably the much less likely scenario.
Dan, for once I think you are completely wrong. I think men who send unsolicited cock shots, are the “guy exposing himself to me on the train,” of the internet.
It’s not about me, and whether they are going to get off with me, because they know they aren’t. It’s about them, and getting me to look at their most favorite body part, and getting a thrill out of violating me in that way.
I don’t think what Anthony Weiner was doing was the same thing, because then he wouldn’t have been wearing shorts.
Frankly I’d be grateful if someone send me just a photo of a dick in some boxers. I’ve had much worse sent to me (and also posted on on all female message boards, which is DEFINETLY not about getting a little somethin.)
@32 Yeah I’m a woman, and I don’t like looking at images of like.. erect penises. They’re gross! And like veiny, covered in pubic hairs, bleh. No one innocently opens an email only to be greeted by a big ugly cock shot is going to like smile. You have a totally visceral reaction of disgust and shock. I literally cannot imagine not having that reaction. Penises are ugly!
I make a distinction between looking for cock shots (via craigslist, AAF, etc.), which I sometimes like to do just because I happen to find cocks beautiful and hot, getting unsolicited cock shots, which I find irritating, and getting a cock shot from someone whose cock I am already intimately familiar with, which I find very arousing.
But here’s my two cents regarding cock shots:
Don’t take a picture of your penis unless it is fully hard. A semi-hard cock isn’t all that compelling.
FWIW, and I like to think that any of us are easily as qualified as Dan to answer the “why do men take and send cock shots” question, I think that men, straight and gay, are into dicks. Straight porn features lots of cock close-ups. They frequently compare their own to others by measuring to see if they’re average or not. They like their own dicks very much, and find the sight of themselves hard to be arousing. So that is one reason for the cock shot. The other could be that it is the make equivalent to the photo that many straight men want to receive from women. The thinking could be that if he would find a pussy shot compelling, she should be equally interested in getting a cock shot.
The the gay trans man:
Personally I agree with Buck re the hole, but for some trans guys it is going to be a strictly no-go zone. Or if you do go there, it might not be with someone you’ve just met, but only after knowing and playing with them a while. Keep your mind open but don’t feel like you *have* to do anything in particular. Not all sex is about penetration.
Trans fags are something of a new phenomena in the gay community, because for a long time you weren’t allowed to transition into being anything other that a hetero. We have a man named Lou Sullivan to thank for being a strong advocate of trans folks’ right to be flaming homos just like everyone else, and for paving the path.
Even if you’re not into kink, you might find the debate within the gay leather community following 2010 International Mr Leatherman interesting. A man named Tyler McCormick won, and it soon came out that he is in fact a trans man, a fact which was known to some (he was not hiding anything) but not all (he never made much of a big deal about it) prior to his victory. For a wide range of opinions about trans men from the gay community, google him.
Unfortunately, depending where you live, there may not have been anyone before you and you might be clearing your own path. I think the advice about being a bit more open to at least being in touch with other transguys, especially gay ones, is not bad. I am about to move to a larger more queer city than the one I’m in currently, one of the big draws being that I don’t think I’m going to have much luck dating where I am! :/
But anyway the question was about disclosure. It sounds like you are doing it right. If they aren’t interested, postponing disclosure won’t help much. But don’t do it right at first, because if they have never encountered a trans man in a context like that it won’t hurt if they are a bit invested in you before you throw then the curveball.
Oh and Patrick Califia has written about this issue very intelligently, you might be interested in him. (He also used to have an advice column called Love Taps, don’t know if it’s still going though.)
#49 beat me to it!
The the gay trans man:
Personally I agree with Buck re the hole, but for some trans guys it is going to be a strictly no-go zone. Or if you do go there, it might not be with someone you’ve just met, but only after knowing and playing with them a while. Keep your mind open but don’t feel like you *have* to do anything in particular. Not all sex is about penetration.
Trans fags are something of a new phenomena in the gay community, because for a long time you weren’t allowed to transition into being anything other that a hetero. We have a man named Lou Sullivan to thank for being a strong advocate of trans folks’ right to be flaming homos just like everyone else, and for paving the path.
Even if you’re not into kink, you might find the debate within the gay leather community following 2010 International Mr Leatherman interesting. A man named Tyler McCormick won, and it soon came out that he is in fact a trans man, a fact which was known to some (he was not hiding anything) but not all (he never made much of a big deal about it) prior to his victory. For a wide range of opinions about trans men from the gay community, google him.
Unfortunately, depending where you live, there may not have been anyone before you and you might be clearing your own path. I think the advice about being a bit more open to at least being in touch with other transguys, especially gay ones, is not bad. I am about to move to a larger more queer city than the one I’m in currently, one of the big draws being that I don’t think I’m going to have much luck dating where I am! :/
But anyway the question was about disclosure. It sounds like you are doing it right. If they aren’t interested, postponing disclosure won’t help much. But don’t do it right at first, because if they have never encountered a trans man in a context like that it won’t hurt if they are a bit invested in you before you throw then the curveball.
Oh and Patrick Califia has written about this issue very intelligently, you might be interested in him. (He also used to have an advice column called Love Taps, don’t know if it’s still going though.)
@47 Okay, good to know. Sorry for being insensitive.
@49 I agree completely, and I would like to think this is what I would have said originally, if I wasn’t in knee-jerk reaction mode.
Here’s an analogy. Imagine somebody writes to an advice columnist asking why credit card companies advertise their credit cards with spam mail, even though these offers are generally considered unappealing, and the receiver of this mail is ten thousand times more likely to be annoyed than enthralled by the mail.
The advice columnist responds by explaining that credit card companies do this because the strategy works on a few people, and sending out credit card offers is the quickest way for the credit card company to determine who is interested in their stupid credit card. He goes on to explain that it would be wrong for a credit card company to send credit card offers to people who do not express interest in receiving them. That’s all fine and dandy, but is the average credit card spammer going to care about what MOST people want? Hell no! Mr. credit card spammer will go on his merry way, sending credit card offers to everybody, hoping to snag the one person who is genuinely interested.
All I want to say is NO! Stop sending me your credit card spam mail! Nobody ever wants to see it! Please! That would be a generalization, and it would be wrong, but nothing I say will hinder the quest of those who seek out such credit cards. My whining will never stop the spam mail from happening, either.
It’s also important to note that these credit card companies would not need to spam if they had anything of genuine value to offer. Of course there are exceptions, but usually, good credit card companies advertise themselves in a less obnoxious fashion. They typically advertise their bank first, and then the bank will give you information about their credit card once you have already expressed interest in the bank.
Unfortunately, my long analogy only works if you assume that cock shot men are genuinely trying to advertise themselves. Maybe some of them are, but I suspect that most are only seeking their own sexual gratification, at the expense of others. This makes cock shots even worse than credit card scams.
“Nevertheless, I’m confident that Weiner is going to beat this thing.”
He’s going to have to. Not a lot of fem Dems lining up to beat it for him.
This makes me happy not to have a cell phone; I would not care to receive genitalia photos from a person of any gender whatsoever, and I could easily be offended by whoever it was who stated so blithely that men do care for such things.
On a positive note, I believe I saw only one commenter use the dreaded J-word, which is bad enough in and of itself, but, when it is constantly set off by the C-word, no wonder attitudes are so messed up. It would be such a blessing to see both terms retired.
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I believe Mr Mann (William, not Thomas) had a T/G MM pair dating in one of his novels. If memory serves, the disclosure came rather on the late side at an awkward time. Interesting that NPNG’s question doesn’t really get an answer; Mr Savage and the Expert Witness support telling, but don’t specify when to tell, though I suppose it possible that the advice to become more comfortable with himself may have had primacy.
It might also help if he sorts out beforehand whether he wants to be pursued for his T status. An ethnic comparison might be more apt, but I’ve known people oh high poundage in both camps – those who were happy to date Chubby Chasers or even Feeders, and those who felt almost as annoyed to be objectified in a “positive” sense as the other way around.
************************************************
I suppose it shouldn’t make a difference to the etiquette of the situation, but the donation request seems rather different if one changes the gender content of the couple.
I like cocks, and I generally don’t think they’re ugly. But I don’t particularly think that an unsolicited cock shot is likely to get me to go, “hey, a cock! I think I’ll have sex with it!”
From your column:
“Gentlemen: The existence of a handful of women who welcome cock shots does not give you license to send cock shots to all women. Cock shots are for women who have expressed a clear and unambiguous interest in receiving cock shots.”
Dan, you should have written that in BIG capital letters simply to make sure the “trolls” and dimwits who appear SOMETIMES on your threads “get it.”
Hell, it only took 6 comments in on this one for a “nervous joke” to appear.
Also, you may wish to do the same as a post on Craigslist and sign it “from a well respected sexpert.” We all know Craigslist will get you a “dick pic” even if you were simply replying to a post about buying someone’s computer desk or pick-up truck.
Yes, there are a lot of dumb men out there and yes, they DO “ruin it for the rest of ’em.”
What a bullshit waste of money that movie is! How can Dan solicit money for that when there are SO many people suffering. I love ya Dan, but the thought of this moron getting $6K for a vanity project really disgusts me.
I think y’all are COMPLETELY off-base in your analysis of the motive for sending cock shots. Sure, for some men it’s an aggressive act, and for some men it’s a masturbatory prompt, but I think the point is subtler than that.
Remember what most men get told from day one: your bodies are ugly, your penises are gross (“Put that thing away!”), your desire is disgusting, etc. Men get the sense that they’re valued for what they can do — for their POWER, in other words — but not for their bodies. And frankly many women reinforce that impression, conveying through their words and behavior that men are fundamentally disgusting and contemptible creatures, and it’s only women’s infinite patience and tolerance that enables the genders to coexist.
So I think that cock shots are a response to that, one part “Hey mommy, look at me!” and one part “You think I’m disgusting from birth? Well then, feast your eyes on just how awful I am!” (Remember too that most male-female interactions end with the female rejecting the male!)
In a weird way it reminds me of the extravagantly flamboyant displays that run through gay male culture, like drag shows and the like. It’s not just done for its own sake (the pleasure of the celebration), it’s also a deliberate fuck-you to a social framework that makes them feel like shit. “You may hate me because of who I am, but you damn well won’t ignore me.”
I was walking through a train station in London and some imbecile apparently was “blue toothing” “dick pics” to any phones in the vicinity. My initial thought wasn’t “how funny” but violation.
Dan is right in that last sentence, if no one asked for it, DON’T SEND IT.
This guy at the train station was sending pictures of his dick to any phone that had a Bluetooth connection – AND, that would have included the school children who catch the train from that very same station.
It’s offensive unless the intimate relationship is already established. It’s a douche bag move!
Representative Mark Foley, was an unmarried gay republican who was driven out of Congress in 2006 for merely sending text messages to adult men whom he knew personally.
The media and the Democrats played the story as if the Republicans were hiding an evil child molester in their midst. There were widespread calls for the Republican Speaker of the House to resign due to the “scandal” and the media played up the “scandal” for months. The talking heads universally condemned Foley and the Republicans, beating the drums all the way to an election victory.
Speaker of the House to be Pelosi and her cohorts ran against the Republican Congress by endlessly bringing up the Foley “Scandal” and calling it an example of the “culture of corruption” in the Republican Congress.
Now a MARRIED Democrat representative says to hell with the dirty texting, I am going to send unsolicited pics of my little Weiner to young ladies who I have never even met.
I am not sure the THC example Dan gave is very valid. It looks to me like pure partisan politics with a ridiculous double standard- Republican men have standards, Democrat men can do whatever the hell they want and almost nobody will care.
At least we know now what Pelosi meant when she promised to “Drain the Swamp” of Republican corruption.
@ 36 – One only needs to have a look on Craigslist to KNOW they exist in large numbers. LOL
@ 44 – You wrote: “Men can think women are into them because of some stupid formula or strategy they are using, and be oblivious to the fact that the women who respond positively to him are responding for entirely different reasons.”
You ought to post this a few times. What you’ve written is gospel there.
When I think back to my younger days and, I’m not kidding, 25 years later, realise that some fool thought I had sex with him because I’d bought into his bullshit that he was “a fighter pilot” or “doctor” and NOT because I thought he was attractive and was going to have sex with him anyway, I wish I could go back in time, and set the guy straight.
Here’s a newsflash for ALL men: Almost every woman on this planet decides whether or not she will have sex with you in the first 3 seconds of meeting you. There is nothing a man can do to “prove his worth.” That whole “proving his worth” and impressing a woman malarcky? That DOES work when a woman is interested in being your PARTNER. So, if you’ve managed to “keep up” with that, then you may have already figured out that telling a woman you are a doctor or a pilot or a spy or whatever load of bullshit you can cough up is not only LYING (which women hate and brands you not worthy at all) but it is also operating in such a sinister manner that it may just be time to call in your therapist.
That is the ugly truth, there gentleman and what burns and IS the reason why men end up creating these LIES simply to just have sex is because they KNOW most women wouldn’t sleep with them OR have them as a partner.
Here’s a better method – which unfortunately takes work on your part but hey, you would have wasted your time anyway with no gains at all – if you really want to get laid OR have a woman in your life long term:
1. Be as happy about YOUR life as you can be. people are attracted to GENUINELY happy people.
2. Stay away from cynical people. They are simply fearful and living in a negative state that will act like an abrasion against your own self.
3. Take each moment as it comes. No more “planning” on going out to “get laid.” No more bragging to your male friends about some cheap (insert derogatory word for women here) you “fucked and left.” Live your life as if each moment will never happen again. It’s easier that way anyway.
4. Learn self-respect and work on your self-esteem. Men with good self esteem and self respect DO NOT make plans and tell lies “to get a woman in bed.” They don’t need to, see?
5. Try to remember that YOU are the only one in your life who can make YOU happy. This is the toughest one for men. One will often hear men come out with such words as, “I can’t make her happy” or “I became a better person because of her.” YOU are the only person who can make you happy. YOU cannot make others happy unless they want to be influenced by you. Make yourself a “better person” because if you rely on others to do that for you, then you’ve lost more than what you’ve invested if the person dies, moves on, or just disappears for whatever other reason.
Do it for yourself.
There are other more subtle nuances I could add but the above are the biggies.
Also, stop living your life to get laid and ENJOY it and guess what? You WILL get laid.
That, my friends, is how it “works.”
By the way, women don’t want any man for his money, they want a man for what he gives out and often money is a by product of “that certain something” that even the poorest man often emits.
AND, if a woman turns you down, please try not to call her derogatory names. She turned you down because she could “feel” about you, what you verified by the use of such words.
AND, if a woman has sex with you 5 minutes after meeting you, it doesn’t make her a slut or a whore or a bitch or [insert degrading word used to describe women who enjoy sex here]. It simply makes her a woman who wanted to have sex with you at that precise moment in time. Hey, she may turn you down tomorrow.
I know I’m not writing this for most of the thread but every once in a while, there appears someone who really, really, could benefit from reading them.
Men are fed with so much crap by other men that sometimes they need to hear a reality check and one that isn’t some “opinion” of “how one wishes things were.”
@26:
Please resist the urge to issue blanket declarations on behalf of half the world’s population.
I can speak for myself.
Thanks,
A. Woman
(Warning – generalizations ahead).
Most men really are simple. They send cock shots because:
1) they think it will turn women on. Count me as one of the clueless until recently. 99% of guys wouldn’t send cock shots if they read this board first and realized a cock shot reduces the chance of sex.
2) They are thinking of you and trying to solicit sex BECAUSE their cock is hard. It is a chicken and the egg question, but the hard cock probably caused the lapse in judgment to send the cock shot in the first place.
3) I had no idea how many women thought cocks were gross. Sob….
And yes to @49
I think that there’s something getting lost in translation about the cock pics. The LW doesn’t specifically mention *unsolicited* pics. They actually mention that men who send “naughty” pics automatically pick that area to focus on.
I don’t want unsolicited pictures of some random person’s puppy, let alone their penis.
However, if someone is sending me “naughty” pics as per a prior conversation, I would expect that from them.
I may be mistaken, but nothing that I’ve seen about Anthony Wiener said anything about the pics being unsolicited. It seemed as though these were women he had chatted with regularly, thereby making it not unusual. Maybe not smart, but definitely not unusual.
The only time I’ve ever sent a woman a picture of my penis is when she asked me to, that does happen.
Regarding Rep. Weiner – can we back off with calls for his resignation? We have elections. If his constituents don’t like him, they can vote him out. Absent his posing an immediate national security threat, those outside his district should STFU about it.
I’m surprised no one seems to be challenging the notion that all straight men would love to get a close-up pussy photo. I’ve been sent a couple of these over the years and I find it stunningly uninteresting. A washed out, context-less shot of someone’s genitals? I’ll pass, thanks.
Am I seriously in the minority on this guys?
@64- rewrite history much? Foley sent x-rated IMs & emails to interns who were minors at the time.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006…
“Foley Resigns Over Sexually Explicit Messages to Minors”
@66 Yeah, seems like a lot of men have really cynical opinions about what women want, they think women seek out nothing more than status.
@69 Things have gotten a bit confusing here. Weiner most likely didn’t send unsolicited pics, but Dan’s response to the question makes it sound like Dan believes sending cock shots is a perfectly viable strategy for meeting women.
I’m also confused because Dan says cock shots are the fastest way of figuring out if a woman is the right type, but he also says you shouldn’t send cock shots without permission. If you already have permission, that makes the cock shot test unnecessary, does it not?
Re: GGM – Not GLAAD, Dan? 😛
@15: Ah hahahahahaha! What? By “the sort of women that this sort of overture works on”, Dan, claerly and explicitly, means “the sort of women sending cock shots [“this sort of overture”] works on”. What you’re saying is that getting cock shots is not something ALL women who are into getting cock shots are into, which is self-contradicting. I agree that not all women who are proudly sexual are into cock shots, but all women who are into cock shots are obviously into cock shots, by definition. What the fuck are you talking about?
@21: Way to essentialize and universalize gender stereotypes, biggie!
@26: Ahahahahahaha! What is with all of you and universalizing your own personal perspectives? I think you’re correct that more women that not are going to feel harassed instead of titillated when they get close-up pictures of male genitals, but anyone who reads Savage Love and/or listens to the podcast should know how varied sexuality can be and realize how absurd universalized statements about the sexuality of a particular gender is. Is there something wrong with the statement “I, as well as everyone I’ve talked to about it, would not appreciate pictures of penises being sent to me”?
@68 “Most men really are simple.”
Just.Stop.Please.
To Trans Man-
First, I applaud and admire your courage and how far you are willing to go in order to be true to yourself!!! And as you obviously noticed yourself, what defines your identity is the body part you have between your ears, not the one between the legs, so stop worrying about it.
There are a lot of insecurities among straight people, let alone members of the trans camp. Some of those who have them deal with it by belittling others and their unique situations, so accept it as a fact but don’t let it get to you. And be aware of your own doing by avoiding doing this to others (I suspect your reluctance to meet other trannys may have something to do with it, and truly hope I’m wrong).
Last but not least… Your situation seems to be extremely similar to a person whose story was published few weeks ago in the “Modern Love” section of the Sunday NY Times. So just in case it’s you, I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed reading it.
And even if it’s not you- I still wish you the best!
Someone with no pole who wants a boyfriend is a ‘girl’ not a ‘transman’.
@15 – Couldn’t have said it better myself! A cock photo is, at best, boring. Give me something suggestive, not explicit. The cock close-up screams, “I will never attempt foreplay.”
CONGRESSMAN WEINER BLIND “SUPPORT” OF ISRAEL
Comment #7 is one of the few here, if not the only one, that actually deals with Weiner’s destructive voting record, as opposed to his online self-destructive posting record.
It should be noted that there are many Israelis who feel that US monetary, military, and political “support” over the years have enabled Israel to shift to the right, resulting in actions and implementation of policies that not only are immoral and unjust, but are also risking Israel’s security and very existence in the long run.
Assuming your are a US citizen, I ask you and all other mindful readers to take action and stop this madness. Thanks!
I just saw an article about an art exhibit featuring plaster cast images of women’s vags–just all hung up in a row there on the gallery wall. Is this hot to men–I mean, crotch shot, yay!–or is it the gynecological equivalent of the unwanted cock shot?
Please advise.
jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co…
@32/Greenapples — You don’t have to love cock shots to love cock. I’m a straight woman who loves cock too — love sucking it, etc — but I’m not into cock shots in the same way I’m not into the type of porn featuring close-ups of penis ramming into vagina. Doesn’t meant I don’t love cock, or that I’m some sex negative prude.
I didn’t think sending women cock shots was about impressing women at all. Men just like the idea that a woman will be looking at his dick, so he’s pretty eager to send those photos and imagine it. Its completely self serving.
Agreed about (woman’s perspective on) the cock shot. There is a reason it’s called bumping uglies.
@74 “Dan says cock shots are the fastest way of figuring out if a woman is the right type, but he also says you shouldn’t send cock shots without permission. If you already have permission, that makes the cock shot test unnecessary, does it not?”
I was confused by that too. But I think it depends what kind of guy you are. If you’re considerate, then find out if your cock shot is wanted before you hit send. If you’re an inconsiderate jerk, looking for women who like jerks, then send to any & all women. You’ll find the few who like jerks, and you’ll have the added bonus of harassing all the other women who get your pic.
I think that men send cock shots because they assume that since they themselves would LOOOOVE a closeup shot of a woman’s genitalia, then OF COURSE she must love a close up of his!
I love a cock attached to someone I want to fuck, and I’d gladly marvel at a souvenir cock shot after I’ve fucked a guy. But a disembodied cock shot from a stranger or acquaintance is a complete turn-off, like being flashed on the subway. Any guy who leads with “hey, look, I have a cock! Interested?” is not going to get anywhere with me. There are plenty of hard cocks in the world. I can afford to be picky about what’s attached to them.
I’ve got to say, though, that Weiner’s pics were pretty hot. I can only say that because I know who the cock is attached to and I generally support his politics and life choices, to the extent that they are known to me.
I’m with #49. Golden rule, guys send cock shots because they’d love to get the same sort of thing from a woman, minus the cock part. They’ve got a hard cock and it’s doing the thinking for them, and hard cock wants to get as close as possible to wet hole, even if it’s just showing up on the owner of that wet hole’s phone.
@37 – I’m a gay man and I’ve seen a lot of erect cocks. Some, but very few, of them are actually beautiful. A lot of them really are ugly, except to their owner, and therein lies the problem. You can’t tell a guy his cock is ugly, any more than you could tell a mother her child is ugly, but it gets hard to keep pretending interest in something you find really unattractive (the cock, not the child; children can always grow out of their looks, I’ve known some unattractive children grow into very handsome and interesting adults, but an ugly cock will always be just an ugly cock).
I always thought the “penises are gross!” thing was unique to the newly initiated and the closeted.
I agree with 82. I find cock shots really jarring/unpleasant. But I like a nice one in person, assuming the person attached to it is attractive as well.
Re: “men send dick shots because they’d love to receive a vag shot”: I wondered about this a while back, and took an informal internet poll asking guys whether they’d prefer to receive a big ol’ disembodied vulva photo from a woman they were talking to, or a photo that showed the woman’s entire naked body. The answer was, overwhelmingly, that they’d want the whole body. And as a straight woman, that’s how I feel, too.
A guy’s dick is such a small part of sex. What really makes an impression on me is what a guy’s body looks like. If I’m corresponding with some dude and trying to decide if I want to fuck him, I want to see a naked pic. Doesn’t have to be fancy; just a pic of him standing there, taken from a straight-on angle so I can get a sense of his proportions and muscle tone and evaluate whether I’d be attracted to him…and imagine how that body would feel on top of me. From a practicality perspective and a turn-on perspective, a naked pic is infinitely more useful to me than a close-up of his genitals.
And guys, if you do decide to go with the cock shot as a means of soliciting sex – get it hard and photograph it from the side, preferably with a common household object next to it for comparison. This will at least tell us things about your dick. Pointing it straight at the camera is just goddamn stupid – it’s the “MySpace angle” of penis pictures.
But yeah…if I haven’t fucked you, getting a cock pic from you is like a construction worker proudly showing me that he owns a hammer: all construction workers have hammers, and all hammers look more-or-less alike, so why the fuck should I care? If we’ve already had enjoyable sex, though, then your dick becomes the specific hammer that, I dunno, built my kitchen cabinets. It has sentimental value to me because you used it, to do something awesome.
I must be totally missing something, but why would a female transform to a male (knowing there would not be a real penis) in order to become a gay “man” and search for male partners?
NPNG could have stayed female and had 90% of the male population at her disposable instead of .001% of 10% which is a liberal estimate of the population of gay males who are seeking a relationship or sex with a hormonally altered female with no penis.
@92: A brain? A healthy level of self-censorship? The right to pass judgment on another person’s very being? Take your pick.
@93 lol
“But yeah…if I haven’t fucked you, getting a cock pic from you is like a construction worker proudly showing me that he owns a hammer: all construction workers have hammers, and all hammers look more-or-less alike, so why the fuck should I care? If we’ve already had enjoyable sex, though, then your dick becomes the specific hammer that, I dunno, built my kitchen cabinets. It has sentimental value to me because you used it, to do something awesome.”
Thank you, perversecowgirl, for that analogy. You really, um . . . hit the nail on the head.
NPNG could have stayed female and had 90% of the male population at her disposable
…While feeling completely wrong in his own body and probably suffering suicidal depression because of it! Yeah, that sounds awesome.
Gymgoth, if someone told you that you could get laid as much as you wanted, but only if you got a sex change…would you do it? If your answer is no, then obviously living as a particular gender is more important to you than hooking up. And that’s how NPNG feels.
The correct answer to letter #2 is “Anything referencing gifts/gift giving does not belong in your wedding invitation. When your friends ask you or your family members what you would like, you can mention preferring donations to ……”
I remeber being on Lavalife for a couple of years; I was less interested in meeting someone than in having virtual sex, exchanging hot fantasies, etc, than I was in meeting anyone (I did, eventually, and we are still together, nearly 9 years later, but that’s another story). As a rule of thumb, anyone who sent me cock shots was immediately given the thumbs down, because I found such types would inevitably prove to be unimaginative and mentally immature.Anyone with a proper appreciation of sex knows that there’s more to sex than genitals, and throwing it in my face when I had not asked for it shows ‘disrespect”.
I have in my life found very few women who appreciate or comprehend the concept of “respect” , or appreciate its importance in keeping one safe from harm…if a man does not “respect’ a woman, he is going to feel free to “take liberties” with her, a nicely old-fashioned term that covers a range of abuses from verbal all the way up to rape and murder.
I am horrified at how many young women allow their male companions to routinely “disrespect” them these days; they will stand there and simper like idiots while the males (not “men”, note) talk about them like a piece of meat. This is not “liberation”, but DEGRADATION. I am thankful that I am not growing up a young woman in today’s world, with the levels of masculine “disrespect” for women I regularly see around me.
Oh and as for that FTM trans; it shows how much mental illness there is in the world when we have to deal with women turning themselves into “men” in order to meet men! HOW STUPID IS THAT? That WOMAN needs a good endocrinologist and a psychiatrist, not “surgery”. And people who sit around and nod approvingly at this sort of insanity are just as INSANE.
Here is my guess as a straight guy. If you disagree, fine, but no need to get offended. 70-80% of guys either wouldn’t mind or would welcome a random (attractive) pussy shot. I’m not going to wank to it, but it would brighten my day. Lots of mainstream porn with closeups of pussies to back me up on this. Of course, I would prefer a full body pic as well, but just pussy also welcome.
80% of women (whole population, not just posters here) do not like random cock shots, find them threatening, etc. There are some here that have expressed appreciation for cocks themselves, or some form of cock shots (thanks for making our genitals feel appreciated, and I mean that!), but it seems the majority don’t appreciate just cocks alone. I’m not trying to speak for all women (who can?), just guessing.
If my guess above is accurate, next question is what is the female equivalent to the (mostly) unwanted cock shot? I don’t mean shopping for drapes together, or watching some romatic comedy, unless the ladies think that most (not all, I know) guys reaaally enjoy that activity alone, and are not mainly interested in scoring points. Hey, if a lady doesn’t enjoy watching football, but is just enduring it to do something with me, I appreciate the effort, and I’d be more inclined to do something she wants that I don’t particularly enjoy. One poster suggested asking men to talk about their feelings. Maybe. Help me out here.
@92 GymGoth
Gender, genitals, and orientation are independent of one another.
what is the female equivalent to the (mostly) unwanted cock shot?
What, like…something that a woman could spring on a straight guy and he’d be like “Argh! Why?!?”?
Really, I think the closest equivalent of a cock shot that a woman could send to a straight guy is…a cock shot. Seriously. I think that a straight dude receiving an unsolicited photo of some random dude’s dick would react pretty much the same way most women do: “ARGH! WTF? I didn’t need to see that!”
The only real difference is that the straight guy would feel more confusion (i.e., there is some tenuous logic behind a guy sending a dick shot to a girl he wants to fuck, but no logic at all behind a woman sending a dick shot to him).
btw, a few years ago I started saving those unwanted cock shots guys regaled me with: then the next guy to send me a picture of a penis would get one right back. 🙂
@100 Probably a girl who says things like “I love to hang out with my friends, and I love to laugh! LoL! Want to talk about my cat for 3 hours?” Something generic that you hear all the time, and doesn’t effectively advertise anything.
I guess the photo equivalent would be girls who take photos at weird angles to conceal their fat.
These things are just annoying though, nothing women do can possibly match the creep factor that men can achieve with little effort.
wow, guys, ease up on 92
maybe they were expressing legitimate curiousity – not judgement.
Personally – for the sake of argument, if I had to choose between getting lots of smoking hot guys as a gay man and staying female and not being able to get any… I’d pick being a man.
And I rather like my gender. But I like getting laid better.
Dan’s comments about Rep. Weiner are shockingly ill-informed. Rep. Weiner preyed on young women who approached him online as political admirers, and used this admiration as a sexual weapon. He destroyed a legitimate interest in politics and responded by telling the young women that the only thing they were good for was receiving shots of his hot bod. When confronted, he showed how shameful his behavior was by repeatedly lying about it. Meanwhile, his wife was pregnant.
This man is pond scum, and Dan’s impulsive, knee-jerk defense of his actions should be condemned and retracted. Dan should apologize.
@26…As a straight female, I have to disagree about the disembodied cock shot. If the cock in question is big enough, I might decide I’d like to have some fun with it…but nothing further with the guy attached to it. 😉
WHY?,
Why is it that talented, motivated, public servants always seem to trip over their own dicks? While his career may not be over (my rep is Barney Frank), Weiner had better learn contrition.
Sigh (of exasperation).
@103 “a few years ago I started saving those unwanted cock shots guys regaled me with: then the next guy to send me a picture of a penis would get one right back. :)”
LOVE it. I think that’s about perfect. I remember once when I guy I messed around with a few times in high school got his hands on my number and out of the blue sent me a crotch shot. I just deleted the message, but I wish I’d had one to send back. That day I came up with a general rule: If I’ve never seen it, or it’s been more than a decade since I’ve seen it, you don’t send me pics unless I ask.
I’m OK with saying that most cocks are ugly as long as no one cries sexism when people say most pussies are ugly…because most of them are, really. About 1 in every 10 vaginas is aesthetically pleasing, something I’d actually enjoy looking at; the rest range from “meh” to “yikes”. Not coincidentally, an unsolicited pussy shot from a potential online date would put me off, at best.
Claims that vaginas are more attractive than penises — or that all vaginas are beautiful (but not all cocks) — seem motivated mainly by up-with-womyn politics that seek to elevate all things female, and basically make it impossible for men to express negative opinions about women’s bodies without being called sexist.
If you doubt this, think about how you’d react differently to a man writing “I was totally turned on, but then I saw her pussy and it was hideous” vs. a woman writing the same thing about a cock. One of them sounds like a sexist douche, but the other one doesn’t, right? And that’s because we’ve collectively decided that when a woman asserts that kind of opinion she’s just expressing her preferences, but when a man does, he’s acting as the enforcer for the Almighty Patriarchy.
i personally am grossed-out by unsolicited cock pictures (nothing like posting an ad on craigslist trying to sell the couch which is too big for your new apartment and getting five responses from guys who don’t want the couch but were wondering if U WANNA FUK) but can we please ease up on the “all cocks are ugly and gross” thing? this is just mean. if a bunch of guys posted that they’d never want to see a picture of a vagina because OMG ALL PUSSIES ARE GROSS AND UGLY there’d be a virtual lynch mob forming up right now…
I wonder if Weiner ever had to deal with Santorum on his cock?
I like a good cock shot…..if the cock is pretty it might work…..but I am a size queen so..
NPNG reminds me of when I first discovered Dan this time last year in the Voice. There I read about an FTM looking for guys in the gay bars. I remember thinking at the time, Hey, what about us straight guys who like tomboys or who love girls whose preference is for other girls?
Frankly, although I wouldn’t have the foggiest idea how to go about meeting an FTM, the thought has stayed in my head ever since then. Unfortunately, it appears from some of the comments that there is a prejudice against FTMs dating straight guys.
@111: Chalk it up to many years of propaganda — both feminist and, strangely, anti-feminist — to the effect that “Woman are beautiful, noble and good, whereas men are troglodytes ruled by their baser instincts.”
#64: The reason we give Democrats a bit more of a pass when it comes to private sexual matters is because they *aren’t hypocrites*. Democrats (as a rule) don’t run on the “family values”, what-other-people-do-in-their-bedrooms-concerns-the-government platform. That’s why it’s so much fun when (seemingly almost every) “family values” Republican congressman geta caught with a dick in his mouth. For the Democrats, they’re just guilty of bad judgement, stupidity, and the rest (the stuff with their wives, etc.) is none of our business, really. Republicans who do the same things are guilt of hypocrisy, as well, and that is something that *is* relevant in the public context, particularly when they are being hypocrites about something they are advocating for bringing into the public sphere in the first place.
NPNG’s friends are all straight, and yet he’s looking at clubs for guys who will take the time to get to know him? Clubs are for superficial hookups. Make some gay male friends already! Join a group, get social, make friends. Some may turn into lovers, some may be delighted to play matchmaker and introduce you to the kind of men you’re looking for.
I think you’re giving cock-shot senders too much credit for thinking. They’re sending pics of their cocks because boob and/or pussy shots would turn them on. They just don’t get it that it doesn’t turn women on. See, straight guys spend much of their lives getting women to show them our stuff. Women spend much of our lives getting men we are not interested in to keep it in their pants.
I mean, in capitalistic terms, it’s a scarcity issue.
100, the first thing I thought of to answer your question about the female equivalent to a cock shot would be a woman displaying her used tampon and saying “Look how much this thing absorbed!”
@121: LOL, that’s pretty perfect, since the proportion of guys who are turned on by that is probably comparable to the proportion of women who welcome cock shots.
#114: NPNG reminds me of when I first discovered Dan this time last year in the Voice. There I read about an FTM looking for guys in the gay bars. I remember thinking at the time, Hey, what about us straight guys who like tomboys or who love girls whose preference is for other girls?
I have no idea what lesbians have to do with anything, but let me address the first part of that. It’s really very simple: trans guys are guys, and straight guys aren’t interested in dating guys. Gay and bi guys are interested in dating guys, so FTMs go where the gay and bi guys are.
Even if a trans guy hasn’t done a single thing to alter his body, he is still a man, and would not appreciate you comparing him to a tomboy any more than you would probably want to be mistaken for a burly, hairy woman. But even aside from that, many trans men are on testosterone, so they have facial hair and chest hair and deepened voices and increased muscle bulk (and probably a large and very penis-like clitoris). Some have had “top surgery” so their chests are flat. I’m fairly sure those aren’t traits that you, as a straight guy, would be attracted to. But correct me if I’m wrong.
As a gay man who dated a FTM for several years, it’s not about the pole, it’s about the guy. Really. Hang on No Pole, No Go – you’ll find someone.
Guys who do this are partially interested, like Dan said, in girls who do genuinely like unsolicited cock pics. But probably more often, jerks send cock pics to get pics back. Even if they were unsolicited they argue you HAVE to reciprocate or else someone who likes you will think you’re NOT NICE. How many times have I read “you owe me a pic ;)”? TOO MANY.
I don’t have any experience with unsolicited cock shots (thankfully)… but on reading that letter my first thought was “because men like pussy shots so they assume you’ll like cock shots!” seriously, I love my boyfriend and I think he’s super sexy but I’m really not turned on by the idea of him sending me naked pics (so he doesn’t)… he on the other hand LOVES sexy pics, including but not limited to up-close pussy shots. one of those things I’ll never understand, but I do it ’cause I love him 🙂
Dan, I don’t think your answer to TCF was quite right. It has nothing to do with the “type” of woman but who the man is to her. Obviously straight women don’t have an “ewww” reaction to every image of a cock or we’d all be lesbians. But for women, context is everything. If a woman is already interested in a man, she might like a cock shot even if she says “ewww” to all random, anonymous cock shots. That makes it all the more important that men WAIT to be asked for a cock shot before sending one. Give one too early and you’ll be rejected by someone who otherwise might have been more receptive if only you had a little patience.
@106, the women in question were fully grown adults and had access to the information that he was married. At least one of them approached him by calling him “hot” in the comments of his YouTube video. They knew exactly what they were doing and only went public for money or their 15 minutes of fame. Weiner shouldn’t have done what he did, but no physical contact was made so there’s still a chance for him to work things out with his wife and learn from his mistakes.
Vitter did far worse by hiring prostitutes (which was both illegal and far more exploitive of women than some online flirting) and he kept his job.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/5128…
Take 2.
See the Big One crash and burn:
/4041/5128808207_21fed43fc1.jpg
#108
So is ol’ Barney stupid or a liar?
@ 123 perversecowgirl (love the name; you’re making my heart flutter), I was thinking afterward how “straight” was the wrong word. Let’s say hetero. Anyway, who is to chacterize someone? Why dismiss that notion that a hetero guy might be interest in another guy who, sexually, has a cunt?
Having never met anyone who identified themselves as FTM I have no specific experience but it seems as if we should be open minded and eschew stereotypes.
Okay the big word missing here is UNSOLICITED re dick pics. And stop comparing them to pussy shots. Guys are thinking BOOBY shots when they send them. Trust me on this.
And yes, even if chatting a bit with a girl, a dick pic is unsolicited until you’ve either already stuck it in her or she’s asked for it. If she asks for it, she is asking to confirm it meets her specifications (if she has not fucked you already) or to send it to all her friends and laugh at you. There is no other reason on earth a woman wants a dick pic. Even women who like sex, who like penises, etc. No one likes a dick pic just shot at them out of nowhere from a man whom they have not yet ridden like a texas bull for over 8 seconds.
Pssst….
Love hurts:
http://www.unmuseum.org/hindex2.jpg
My honest reaction to receiving an unsolicited dick shot: “Gross,
what an idiot”. As someone else mentioned, I imagine a sender (some sweaty troglodyte living in the basement of his parents’ house) who thinks sex begins and ends with his own dick and has never gone down on a woman in his life.
But, but, but…
Isn’t this better? (And it’s from Wikipedia so y’know it’s educational.)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en…
Sorry Dan – I have the utmost respect for you, but you are really wrong about the cock shot.
Man take photos of their cocks for the same reason dildo manufacturers make ugly pink veined dildos – because these objects are all about turning on the MAN. Men incredibly PROUD of their little boys, and it turns them on to think women are looking at this 6 inch fetish object. It isn’t about the woman at all!
I am a totally GGG girl – but honestly, the only time I really enjoy looking at a photo of a cock is if it is an exceptionally interesting cock – 11 inches and thick as a beer can, or pierced in some unusual way, or maybe has a tattoo of a harley on it…. otherwise (sorry guys) – one dick looks like any other dick.
Finally – and this is important. We girls know how important the little guy is to men. So, we pretend to be impressed, so as not to bruise feelings. We don’t say what we are thinking (Ew – Yuck, or worse Oh Brother – Yawn!) – we coo, and tell you how beautiful it is, because we know this is your … um…. soft spot. This encourages this behavior.
But seriously, guys – unless its huge, or interestingly decorated – your cock is not interesting to us for how it looks. It looks like every other cock we’ve seen. So, stop showing us the photos and start telling us what you can do with it¬
Regarding Anthony Weiner, I enjoyed reading your response. However, the talk I’ve heard (or read) so far has ONLY been about the pictures he sent. It doesn’t mention that the woman (or women) might have asked to see a picture of his cock. And it’s also true that the woman (women) might have asked but he’s omitting that to save THEIR reputations. And let’s face it, there are women who, knowing the guy they’re chatting with is an elected official, would ask the guy to send such a picture because they know it can cause damage to the guy and his party, or help them get rich later on. I regret that life has made me so cynical, but there it is.
“has to be a time that he realizes that what’s between his legs does not define who he is.”
Shouldn’t all transpeople understand this before you start, you know, cutting themselves? I still find it ridiculous and upsetting that something could hate a part of their badly so much that they would cut it off instead of just coming to terms with it and accepting that that’s what they are.
This isn’t about loving who you want to love, or being who you want to be. It’s about a type of body dismorphia that we all have in certain amounts and all have to deal with to be happy.
I’m with Dan, there are women who love dick enough to appreciate a goodlooking dick pic anyday of the week with a few disclaimers, that the penis belongs to someone they are NOT related to/disgusted by/at odds with/unavaiable etc and that they know or is getting to know the owner of the dick in the pic. I never understood why so many people tried to push the idea that women are stuck on inner beauty so much that outer sexual beauty just HORRIFIES OMG us to pieces.
@133 GQbd:
Why dismiss that notion that a hetero guy might be interest in another guy who, sexually, has a cunt?
Not all trans guys have a cunt sexually. They have a cunt biologically, but they didn’t ask for it, don’t want it, and certainly don’t want anything inside it. Some trans dudes are like Buck Angel and willing to use all their holes, others are not…just something to be aware of.
I’m all about shattering gender roles and stereotypes. I think the part of this discussion that bends my brain is a guy calling himself hetero when he’s interested in other guys.
On the other hand, if people have the right to label themselves in whatever way they choose, I suppose you could date nothing but guys and still call yourself straight and everyone else would have to respect that.
Bah, I dunno. The semantics of political correctness make my head hurt. Really, my only point is that trans guys are guys, and anyone who pursues one thinking “he’s really just a butch-looking woman” is probably going to run into troubles. If you understand this, that’s awesome and more power to you! If you ever end up dating a trans dude I hope you come back and tell us all about it. 😀
It’s hilarious how general these comments are!! Each to their own: some women like genital shots, some don’t. Some men like talking, some don’t. Some men like genital shots, some don’t. Some women like talking, some don’t (I refer you to my cousin who really just wants to f*ck if you don’t believe me 😛 ). Really, all this broo-ha-ha over what?!?? Besides, one might say “eww..!!” and think “yum!!!”- who knows?? Vivre et laisser vivre!
Well, perversecowgirl, it is doubtless speculative on my part unless my SO decides to kick me out on my butt sometime before I get too grey and wrinkly.
Still, sex aside, I wondering what it would be like dating an FTM dude. I mean, guys like each other’s company so why not a date with a guy. Dinner, conversation, fishing, carpentry projects, whatever. I’ve never had a girlfriend who wanted to go hunting but maybe it would be fun to have a hunting buddy that felt comfortable cuddling up with me, and vice versa.
As for sex, well, good, caring sex is always full of emotional landmines no matter who you are with. It might be a relief to be able to honestly say “I didn’t know” rather than “Shit, will I never learn.”. I do not think that I would be squeamish about an anatomical guy it if I was so inclined but I simply do not see myself being intimate with anyone’s cock but my own (we have had a very long relationship, you understand; it would be like cheating). Besides, just cause I’m a guy doesn’t mean that the getting part is more important than the giving. I could see myself going down on some dude’s pussy with the same enthusiasm as I would a chick’s.
My query and speculation simply started with the realization that I sort of like the androgyny thing. I often see someone in public and wonder, Is that a chick or a dude? Then, If that’s a chick then she’s kind of cute. My speculation would never get as far as, What if it is a dude? because, even though I have obviously found that person physically attractive, I have no interest in dick. Until the last year or so it would not have occurred to me that it might be a dude with a pussy. It was when I started reading about FTMs here in Dan’s column, I couldn’t help but think, why are FTMs who want to go out with guys restricting themselves to gay guys? Am I the only hetero guy who is open to the possibility?
OK, maybe I’m unique or – more likely – delusional, but I do tend to wonder what it would be like and I have a hard time thinking that I’m the only one.
GQbd: I’m totally down with the androgyny, too. Used to be, I’d see someone I couldn’t tell was male or female and I’d think “Man, that person is hot!!! But can’t hit on them – what if they turn out to have a vagina? I’m not into that!”
Lately, though, my reaction is more like “That person is hot and I’d sex them up no matter what configuration of ‘bits’ they have.” So I guess my orientation is changing as I get older or something.
It’s all moot though ’cause I’m in a monogamous relationship. Luckily he’s a fairly passable crossdresser so I get the best of both worlds. 😀
LOL. You made me think of a Hayes Carll song
@26, ugh! Please shut up! I am a 35 year old female and size queen who is only interested in hung, hairy, uncut guys. Since that first category seems to be rather subjective, cock shots go a long way in establishing sexual compatibility. Before you write me off as a shallow asshole, I’ll note that these traits need to coexist with non-physical selling points like intelligence, good politics, similar interests, etc. My sexuality is very phallocentric, however, and penis pics are critical to my online dating experience.
@138
YES. THANK YOU.
@138 Can anyone imagine a straight guy saying “I’m not interested in boobs, they look all the same”?
Apparently it’s not unusual for officially heteresexual women to not be interested in the aesthetics of male bodies.
I find clothed, erect cock on a fit guy to be very arousing…why this straight girl loves software gay porn. 😀
But if I comment on, say, Stephen Colbert’s website that his slit is “awesome” or “hot,” even, that’s not a sexual solicitation. Dustin Ackley, on the other hand, is my age and lives in Seattle. 😉
Can anyone imagine a straight guy saying “I’m not interested in boobs, they look all the same”?
There’s a lot more variance in boobs than there is in cocks – or at least in the cocks of guys who like to send/post cock pics. I challenge anyone here to go to http://www.ratemycock.com, browse around a while, then see if they can identify which pics they’ve already seen and which ones are new.
I’ve done this. It is difficult.
Also – it’s not that we’re not interested in any penis because they tend to look the same. We’re just not clamouring for yet another picture of one from yet another random guy because they tend to look the same.
I’d much rather be turned on by a bulge than the actual full-on-flesh cock shot. It’s more of a tease that way. And I have gotten cock shots before — they don’t really do it for me. Sure, perhaps they might aid me in envisioning them being jammed up inside me, but the actual cock shot itself is… meh. But that’s just me. I want to fuck, I don’t want to beat around the bush.
I’m a 51 year old mtp (male to parthenogenesis) but I’m only attracted to eukaryotes who are female-identified but into pegging. I’ve had a really hard time finding a compatible lover in spite of craig’s list. Is there a more specific website for me?
@151 perversecowgirl
I think the same case can be made for just about any body part by itself. We humans are best at faces. Breasts, penises, etc. quickly become monotonous when viewed in isolation.
FWIW I intensely like sex with women but I am almost totally indifferent to breasts.
I’ve received a lot of cock shots from men I didn’t know. A LOT of cock shots. It seems to me that the men sending them believed they were providing me with the only information they considered important or that they expected me to feel was important. That told me a lot, and their assumption was wrong, but it wasn’t because I do or don’t like cocks. I like some cock a lot (the thick, smooth ones that more than fill the guy’s hand) and I don’t particularly like others (the extremely long ones that look like hoses). And I don’t like any that include rulers in the shot. Or beer bottles. Or anything else stuck there to provide “perspective.”
I’m actually more into the contents of a man’s head than his dick, even for a quickie, but it’s always informative to know who thinks the appearance of his penis is the most important information he has to offer me about who he is. Then, I can just delete his message.
@ Hunter: or maybe he’s an ass man. And thank god for them. I have nice breasts but I’m stoked when a guy doesn’t get caught up on them since I’m totally indifferent to them too.
@140/Kyle: that’s really misinformed. Even if you look at the DSM you’ll find that being transgendered is not considered body dysmorphia and the “treatment” is allowing the person to transition into the gender they identify with. Even if you want some harder facts, there’s preliminary evidence that there are neuoanatomical differences between a biological male who identifies as female, and a biological male that identifies as male.
That’s a different context than what I meant but yeah, sure. I like ’em. But just becaue a guy isn’t into breasts doesn’t mean he has a problem with women. Some women have pretty much nothing in the way of breasts, that doesn’t mean they’re not women.
Not wanting to sound transphobic, I’m a little concerned that fag hags could try to dishonestly satisfy their “if you’re gay, prove it” fetish by becoming FTM LOL.
Anyways, been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I’m vegetarian but an USA-Peruvian bisexual writer and TV presenter called Jaime Bayly once properly said in an interview (like ten years ago for the chilean version of the spanish tv show cqc) that “women are like vegetarian food, they taste good but it feels like you missed a peace of meat” or something like that.
ROFLMAO
Whoever said to get involved with the genderqueer community, not the trans community – do not listen to them. The “genderqueer community” (which does not exist everywhere, but exists mainly in big cities full over overly academic, middle-to-upper class, white college students, mostly female-assigned and often having attended women’s colleges) thinks there is a fundamental difference between transsexual/transgender people and cissexual/cisgender (non-trans) people. It is more important to them what you were born with between your legs than what your gender IS. By which I mean, if they know you are a man, they still have a burning need to know what is in your pants. Which is really sad, cissexist, and a huge problem for stealth trans people. So avoid them at all costs. Try to find a confidential support group or an online message board if you want to meet other men who happen to be trans but are not “transmen” or genderqueer or some other “I’m not really a man because I am trans which makes me SPECIAL!” type of man. Do not, I repeat, do not go out and randomly meet trans people, especially genderqueer trans people, if you value your privacy.
156: Hunter 78,
You’ve never met a man who mentally bites his knuckles when a long pair of legs and well formed bunda passes by? I have, bless them, as someone who has spent most of her life dancing and therefore would be devastated to loose her legs and well matched backside, I appreciate differences in likes and dislikes. There is nothing wrong with a man with different tastes, and it is a good thing, in my opinion, seeing that not every woman looks exactly the same. You are welcome to disagree, though.
Take care.
#163: Obvious troll is obvious.
weiner should go because he spent too much time preening and sending. i bet he didn’t read the necessary papers to make wise political decisions. It is not credible to assume he was doing the voter’s business without interferring self-distraction.
I hate to ask this — and I honestly did try to translate the words and spend some time trying to figure it out — but can someone restate in plain English whatever it is that #161 said?
@166 GQbd
I’ll take a stab at it. I read it as saying that there are various groups out there that have very different views of gender. Some think the most important determinant of gender is what genitals you were born with. Others think gender originates in the brain, i.e. how you feel. Do you feel female or male or something other? KCZ is warning that some groups have militant positions and will not respect other people’s views or privacy concerning their genitals (they will out you).
Thanks. That makes sense. I couldn’t tell you whether there is a “genderqueer community” here in my mid-size city but even the gay community can be very parochial and controlling in their expectations of other people in the community. I’d laugh except for the hurt that I’ve seen it cause people who didn’t act according to the group’s likes.
Bingo.
I thought all of Anthony Weiner’s photos were hot, particularly the one in his jockeys. Penises absolutely fascinate me, and I think some are quite beautiful. In fact, my favorite kind of porn is videos of guys getting themselves off. Clearly I’m in the minority, or one of the few girls willing to be honest about it.
@170, Actually I once saw the uncut version of Caligula and it was those kinds of scenes that I liked best. Caligula is a hot movie.
And I agree with you about the boxer shorts photo, although I liked it more when I knew for sure who it belonged to.
@161 way to stereotype about ALL genderqueer folks. We’re a more diverse bunch than you’re giving us credit for.
@170 – “Clearly I’m in the minority, or one of the few girls willing to be honest about it.” Which do you think is more likely? That lots of women on Slog are lying about what they like? Or that tastes differ?
@144 You might still be missing the point (depending on the particular guy you’re talking to). Some trans guys don’t want you touching their “pussy,” they don’t want you calling it a pussy or thinking of it as such. They want to have sex with men as men. (Some transguys might be fine with everything you’ve said. People vary.)
My brother, before he transitioned, was acutely uncomfortable with people noticing [her] hotness as a woman… it felt wrong and uncomfortable and unpleasant to him. Since he started identifying as male he’s very comfortable being “objectified” and having his body admired. But if someone is relating to him and attracted to him as a woman, no matter how androgynous, that’s a problem for him.
It’s a complicated area and requires a lot of sensitivity.
@151 perversecowgirl
The interesting thing about that site is that if you click through the photos in the “top” category, they all look the same, as you said. But if you go through the “all” category the photos vary wildly, including a whole lotta “ew!” if I may add my rating. The “top” ones are boring but unoffensive. There are some beautiful ones in the “all” folder.
@92, you are right on! Being surgically mutilated and doped up on hormones does not make a woman into a man or a man into a woman. If someone thinks they are in the ‘wrong’ body, they have a MENTAL problem. Treat the mental problem. And as we see, the attempts to alter the body to fit the (confused) mind do not work on the target audience anyway. No one is fooled! It is a cynical ploy by the medical community to ‘treat’ mental problems by physical mutilation. Deal with the confusion – which is a mental problem, not a physical one. As the Senator from Minnesota once said, it’s easier to wear slippers than to carpet the world.
178– Don’t work on the target audience? The target audience is one’s self. The rest of the world is welcome to accept or not to accept as they see fit. There will always be tons of variety in what people are attracted to. You’re missing the stories of people who transition with surgery and hormones and go from being miserably unhappy all the time to as happy as anyone else– meaning that life has its ups and downs, but at least they have a shot at being comfortable in their own skin.
Mr. J: Interesting! I honestly can’t remember how I navigated around ratemycock those few times I went…maybe I was only looking at the “top” ones.
Hunter78:
Cis is a useful synonym for straight; it’s shorter.
“Cis” is not a synonym for “straight”. The word refers to someone who feels comfortable with the sex they were assigned at birth – so basically, the opposite of “trans”.
@140/157: As I understand it, the theory is that there’s a part of your brain that has a “map” of your body, and if this map doesn’t match up with your actual body, you feel discomfort. This map is influenced by fetal hormones, so occasionally someone will have a male body but a female map, or vice versa, which makes them transsexual.
It’s possible that something similar is going on with body dysmorphic disorder: for instance, someone may have a mental map that they don’t have a left arm, and thus be so uncomfortable with their left arm that they feel the need to cut it off. I don’t think it has anything to do with hate: it’s a neurological situation.
@177: Cis has nothing to do with being straight. One can be cis and gay, or trans and straight. Cissexual just means that your body matches your mental idea of your body.
Note that ‘cis’ is just the Greek opposite of ‘trans’, as in ‘cisalpine Gaul’, and so ‘cissexual’ means not transsexual, and ‘cisgender’ means not transgender. Transgender is an extremely broad category that includes virtually everyone in some respect, since it just means anyone who doesn’t strictly adhere to or subscribe to gender roles. So ‘cisgender’ should mean someone who generally sticks with gender roles. However, it sometimes gets used to mean cissexual, which is unfortunate for those of us who like to draw Venn diagrams of these things. 🙂
@180 perversecowgirl
Also the “top” ones have that clonal porn look.
You’ve got to love that two totally separate conversations are going on, one about people struggling not to define themselves based on their genitals and one about dudes who define themselves by their dicks.
183– Brilliant. You summed it up perfectly.
I am on a campaign to promote clarity in politics. As a part of this campaign, it is clear that the political parties need to be rebranded. As the right wing has Liberalism a pejorative–despite the fact that Liberlism was an inportant formative idea of the USA and without which the USA may have never been founded as democracy for and by the people–liberals now prefer the term Progressive which is apt. We must now find term for the Right which fits and clearly demarcates the division between the two opposing positions. For the right there seems no better term than Regressives. The terms Progressive and Regressive clearly enunciate the dirrefrence between the two. Therefore, I promote rebranding the Right and the GOP as the Regressive party.
@178
what you’re saying is jus straight up, scientifically false. See my post above.
@186: Even with body dysmorphia, I suspect it’s easier to treat by changing the body, not the mind, just like with transsexuals. See what I wrote in post 181.
@144:
As a gay trans guy, I personally wouldn’t want to have sex with someone who would be uncomfortable with another dick in the room. I wouldn’t want my partner to get too attached to my genitals, because I’m…rather distant from them, myself.
Basically, I wouldn’t want you to be into me for something that I don’t see as a part of me. If you wouldn’t be into me if I were a cis guy, I’m not interested.
@Dan and Buck:
(1) Not all gay trans men are interested in bottoming. Especially not with *that*. I’m a bottom who’s willing to play either way, but I know guys who are strict tops and others who will only bottom the standard way.
(2) Not all gay trans guys feel comfortable in the trans community. You wouldn’t know this, Dan, but Buck should: the trans male community is very heavily dominated by 3 overlapping groups – straight guys, formerly (and some currently) lesbian-identified guys, and genderqueers. Those of us who are unambiguously gay binary-male-identified guys who fit in comfortably in the gay community have an incredibly hard time finding support in the trans community. And not all of us really want that support. It sounds like the writer may be one. And in that case, I’d advise him to just get to know more gay men.
@187
I… don’t understand. We’re agreeing with eachother and also disagreeing with the same person.
@189: Yeah, I wasn’t disagreeing with you, but a couple people (140 and 178) were criticizing transfolk by comparing them to people with body dysmorphic disorder. I do think there’s a case to be made that the two are similar and that people with BDD should be treated like transfolk as far as body modification, so I wanted to add that on to your comment.
I think you would actually be wrong on that point. It seems to me that you’re actually comparing three seperate things which are fairly distinct.
1. Transgender: the most convincing evidence that I’ve heard of for a neuroanatomical basis for sexual identity is the cBNST (central division of the Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis – to be clear this is nowhere near the ‘map’ you mentioned.) which is larger in those that identify as male and smaller in those that identify as female (regardless of biological gender or sexual orientation). I have never heard of somatotopic map differences in transgender individuals.
2. BDD: again, the running theory doesn’t seem to be that there’s a somatotopic map defect in BDD patients. It seems that their body dysmorphia is more related to depression/anxiety/self esteem and considering that they respond to therapy and medication, surgery is not advised for them. (This is NOT the case for transpeople where surgery IS advised and they do not respond to medication/therapy). “Surgery and dermatology literature note that the treatment outcome of these patients is frequently poor, with patients often voicing dissatisfaction with an outcome that is objectively acceptable. In some cases, the patient is satisfied with the appearance of the treated body part but then focuses their dissatisfaction on another body area.”
3. Finally, what you were talking about… I have learned about something similar to what you’re saying but only in the context of parietal lobe damage due to say, trauma (this is where the ‘map’ you mentioned is). Sometimes these patients want to remove parts of their body because the part of their brain that understands it belongs to them has been damaged. Often what you see is called ‘contralateral neglect’ which means that the patient completely ignores the opposite side of their body to the damage. This is different from BDD, though.
What I don’t understand is No Pole guy’s need to meet gay men only. If you were more open to non-monosexual partners, you might actually find someone who’s attracted to you as a man *and* not mind the lack of pole.
@191: Thanks for the additional information! I’d appreciate any references or links; I’d like to learn more.
The part about surgery not curing BDD and the discomfort transferring to a different part of the body is especially interesting: if true, it does make BDD sound like a different phenomenon.
No problemo.
So the one thing I can’t find (I think because I don’t know the clinical term for it) is the part about the parietal lobe damage. Our prof told us about it as kind of an anecdote so it’s not even in my notes. The closest I can find is if you google ‘hemispatial neglect’. But that’s not quite it either.
The quote I found you about BDD is from a paper for doctors, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles… and it’s right out of the abstract.
The cBNST study is here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843… although apparently they did a follow up study showing that this difference doesn’t really show up until adulthood, so I guess the ‘gender identity’ search is still on.
Poster #15 here, back to explain/defend myself to #30 and #75…
First, Dan does not explicitly say, “These men are interested in the sort of women that the cock shot works on.” That is your understanding of it. But what he *actually* says is, “They’re interested in the sort of women that THIS SORT OF OVERTURE works on.” This sort (category) of overture is the explicit sort. I *am* the sort of woman who an explicit overture works on; therefore, I *am* in that category and have some authority to speak for the group. (Limited though it may be.) So, as such a woman (the kind that responds to explicit overtures), I can say: this particular explicit overture can be counterproductive, and thus, may not be the wisest opening move. A safer explicit overture (one that may net you more sex partners) involves words, not pics. These men are weeding out otherwise willing and kinky sex partners with no conceivable rationale behind it.
Now, there is another angle. If the goal of the man is merely to engage in mutual explicit sexting, then Dan is correct that the men are behaving logically and weeding out only those they don’t want/need. (That is, weeding out those women who don’t like to send/receive naked genital pics.) However, if the desired outcome is not sexting but SEX (as it has seemed to be every time I’ve personally received such a pic), then these men are not behaving logically. Again, there is no conceivable reason to weed out potential sex partners who don’t like cock shots, and thus, this weeding is likely unintentional. Therefore, given my assumption that these men are looking for SEX, my post makes perfect sense.
In other words, I see what Dan is saying, but I think he’s wrong. (Or, at the very least, wrong in whatever percent of these cock-shot-senders who are sending explicit pics because they’re looking for a willing partner for sex.)
I’m a student, and the mom of a 5 y/o so I have limited funds. I still chose to back Buck Angels documentary. It must be made!
Thanks for showing me how to donate to him, and thanks to Buck for being awesome!
Naomi Dahl
I am one of those 1000’s of guys that Buck talks about. Contact me if curious on DudesNude or Manhunt.
— CTBrianD