I pretty much always have a crappy bus ride between my apartment on Queen Anne and the Stranger offices here on Capitol Hill—wait, ride downtown, wait some more, transfer, ride to up the hill. All to travel about two short miles. But today I decided to jump on the #8 along Denny. No lolly-gagging downtown! No getting stabbed and robbed at Third and Pike! It would be way faster this way, right?
The bus didn’t show up on time. Or 10 minutes late. Or ever. I ended up taking the next scheduled bus after hanging around for half an hour. I could have walked faster.
I started thinking back—the #8 has been late literally every time I’ve tried to ride it in my life. So I’m hereby nominating it for Worst Bus in the City. Always late, always in traffic, and 6,000 stops along the way. It’s definitely up there with the “mobile patchwork” of crackheads and vomit that is the #7.
Let this legally binding poll decide the issue once and for all:
@46
When well you self-righteous pricks get it through your heads that bicycles are NOT a replacement for a functional transit system?
Never. That’s what makes them self-righteous pricks.
That said, the 8 is awful. It’s either 4 minutes early or 7 minutes late. There’s really no need for a timetable when it comes to the 8.
@ 42, that’s weak reasoning. The 174 and 358 both run from downtown to beyond the city limits, and probably cover more in-city mileage than most of the routes on this poll. Obviously all the comments about it should tell you that you’re wrong to exclude them.
@ Reverend Doctor DJ Riz, the renumbering happened too quickly after the bus driver was shot for that to have been the reason – it was just a month or two later. Remember, they rolled up the 6 and the 359 Express into one route, meaning that the 358 wasn’t precisely the same as either the 359 or the 6. All that stuff works at a crawl, so they must have been working on combining the routes for a year or longer.
I used to ride the 8, now I walk. It takes about 5 minutes more for me from capitol hill to seattle center, sometimes it’s faster to walk. It’s always faster to walk the other way. I don’t think it’s so much that the 8 sucks, it’s that denny sucks.
have you ever seen someone shit themselves while pissing themselves while puking themselves. i have. the horror of the 358 is without end. i have tried to come up with a name for the triple treat that i witnessed, but the best i can come up with is a ‘lahar’. any suggestions?
@49 (who called waits “inevitable with mass transit”): I came from an American city (no, not New York) where waiting more than 9 minutes for any mode of transit, or any major route, was highly exceptional. People tended to get irritable if a 10th minute went by. Here, that’s inconceivable.
You say, “at least it exists,” and you are correct. But when you call it “functional,” you are wrong. That most of this city’s residents still own cars — and elect to use them for all but direct home-to-work commuting — proves you wrong.
Metro needs to IMMEDIATELY dump all slow, cumbersome, circuitous routes and pour all of the extra bus hours into making the routes that actually work TRULY frequent. Walking distances will necessarily increase, but overall travel times (walking to stop + bus ride itself) will decrease dramatically.
And yes, of course the bike racks provide a necessary service for cross-lake commuting. But the bike-loading process adds minutes to ANY bus ride within the city, and the smugness of bicyclists who aren’t actually using their holy mode of transit can be blinding.
(Side note: are bicyclists really still bitching about the “hazards” of light-rail and streetcar tracks? Will someone please tell them that Amsterdam — the #1 bicycling city in the developed world — has myriad streetcar lines. This city is overrun with the discourse of the ill-informed!)
I too have waited many times for the #8 at the Kidd Valley bus stop at Lower Queen Anne (right at the beginning of the route) and not had it show up. I imagine now that they’ve expanded the route there’s even more of a chance it will be late getting back to QA and therefore late starting its route anew.
The 44 is only bad around 5pm in the UDistrict when you have to cram on with the UW crowd and then crawl through Wallingford. It feels like an eternity has passed before you reach Stone Way.
I also agree with many here that the 174 and 358 are truly depressing.
The 3 and the 4 are my least favorite, but I don’t get around the city much. I like the 2. I think of it as “my bus.”
The 3 & 4 through First Hill are a joke.
Faster to walk – even up the hill!
@24: oh, yeah, there are transponders or whatever. So if a bus doesn’t pass one then there’s no accurate data in the system, etc.
Oh, one more thing about the 358. I don’t know if it’s still true now, but when I lived in north Seattle (99-03) there were many times that three, or even four of those buses would be traveling together in a little cluster, even though they were scheduled 8 minutes apart. One bus would be packed like a can of spam, while the others had almost nobody on and they’d skip past the first one while it picked up still more passengers from crowded stops like 46th. That was a virtually routine occurrence during the morning rush hour.
I don’t even know why the 44 is on here, clearly the author hasn’t ridden the death match 174 or the stinky bum filled crazy people 358… Made the mistake of catching the 174 from an exhausting flight home and let me tell you I was amazed at the lack of needed police presence on this bus route. The 358 by far always stinks, and always has bats@*t crazy folks on it.
Why’s the 44 on the list? It’s actually a pretty good bus! It runs frequently at all times and it’s usually on time. The 48 isn’t really that bad, either.
And why’s the 5 not on the list? I don’t think the 5 through Greenwood has ever been on time, not even once.
One ride on the #358 Aurora Crack Crazy Train Prostitute Express will make a ride on the 7,8,44,48 seem like a little slice of heaven.
OMG, I absolutely agree with “Better a late bus than one filled with thugs and crack heads” – #3 and #4 hands down are the worst bus routes, and you can walk faster up the hill than the bus can travel! Just in time for swine flu and the cold/flu season – I am NOT taking the #3 or #4 bus!!!
@55: I used to live in Boston, which had a better transit system than Seattle by far, and you still had to wait half an hour sometimes because buses/trains break down, traffic happens, crazy people refuse to behave and the cops have to get involved, etc… You have to compromise if you are going to share a transportation resource with a few thousand other people. With a bike, not compromises, you can get to almost anywhere almost anytime.
The Seattle transit system is burdened with too many bus routes designed to serve the rest of King County, not enough buses during rush hour on some very popular routes, and no real subway/trolley/light rail network. Which sucks.
If you want to talk about car ownership rates, I’d say the biggest difference between Seattle and Boston is that Seattle also has WAY more parking, making car ownership a lot more attractive. If you lived within the Boston city limits, not only were you probably a short walk from a decently active bus route, you probable had to fight for on-street parking or pay a large premium for an off street spot. Seattle has these nice wide streets with unrestricted parking on both sides of the road, and it seems like most of the houses/apartments/condos outside of a few exceptionally dense areas have a parking spot out front.
And to top it all off, I’m not saying biking is the solution to all transit problems, just Garret MucCulloch’s issue of the day.
Three Fifty-Eight! Three Fifty-Eight! Three Fifty-Eight! Goes right by my house.
The loss of the six was severe for me, as it went down Stone Way just long enough to take me close to door-to-door, whereas now it stops on Aurora at 45th, which means it takes longer than walking the whole way does. I drive!
God, the 358 sucks. On the flipside, let me take a moment to say that I dig the 5 — its drivers, its ridership, its timeliness. Three cheers for the 5.
@27. The 150? Really? It’s not nearly as adventurous as the 101. Even the 101 wouldn’t get my nomination.
The 7 is Crack
The 358 is Meth
The 174 is PCP
Second place is a toss up between the 3, the 4, the 358, and the 120.
Hands down worst is the 174. I call it the ‘dreg hauler’. As in the dregs of humanity.
The 43/44 has it’s moments partially due to the length of the route and the fact that it has to go down 45th, and it is the only bus I’ve been robbed on, but it’s not that bad most of the time.
Both the 5 and the 16 seem interminable the way they slowly wind their way north.
I agree with @68, the 150 is downright pleasant compared to most bus routes. Smelly people are rare, and crazies are almost non-existent.
I wonder how bad the 174 is now though, since it doesn’t come up to downtown anymore. Never used it, so I have no idea.
BTW, @14 wins for the reference.
Commuted on the 174 to work and back for a year in the early 90’s. I got to work early/got off mid-day, so it was never prime shenanigan hours, but it still sucked.
Sam @67: yes, the 5 is great. It’s a bit of hike, and it takes longer to get downtown, but it’s always a better option than the 358.
I rode the 358 to commute for a substantial portion of last year. It did not smell good, and I witnessed alcohol consumption pretty regularly. OTOH, I rode the 174 once, and it smelled worse than the 358 ever had, was more standing room only, and I saw a homeless man with the worst toenail growth problem I have ever seen. Hi big toenail was 1/3 inch thick, yellowed, and extending almost an inch past the rest of his filthy feet. I’ve ridden the 358 hundreds of times, and I’m voting for the 174.
Not a contest. The 7 is the consistent winner for personal danger, infection risk, and slower-than-walking progress.
358 all the way! Drunks, crackheads, fights, dogs (nice and otherwise), screaming kids – you name it, the 358 has it. The 174 is a close second.
about 3 weeks ago an old black woman got mad at me for sitting in the front of the bus beside her and called me a ‘nigger’.. i said ‘what?’..she said.. ‘ you ain’t got noun bidness sittin up here. onliest peoples should sit here is old peoples and ladies….muthafucka….’ i said ‘what?’ she said ‘ i oughta get my son in law out here to kick yo ass’..i go ‘ why are you cussin at me like that?..you too old to be cussin like that.. as old as you are,i had figgered you for a church lady’..she muttered ‘fuck you nigger’ i said ‘ do you talk like that in church ?do you talk to god with that mouth ? and that shut her down…
#358 good times..
Before they broke it up this past season, the 174 rivaled the 358.
The 8 not only isn’t bad, it isn’t even necessary. If you’re concerned about time, hop a bus Downtown (the 10, 11, 12, 14, 43 or 49 depending on where you’re at) and connect there. Going to Interbay/LQA/Ballard? Hop the 15 or 18. Going up QA hill? Hop the 2, 3, 4, or 13. Going to SLU? Hop the 16, 66 or 70. Don’t rely on the 8 if you find it unreliable. But it certainly isn’t the worst route.
@ #40, the 17 was the loveliest bus I ever rode in my life. Clean. Quiet. Smelled like Donna Karan Cashmere Mist. OK, that last one might be a stretch but it was heaven compared to the usual Rolling Drug Deal I ride through this town.
the 14. definitely. always always at least fifteen minutes late.
notice how 3/4 of those buses service the CD and south end? of course.
The city has never cared much about that route. It took heroic amounts bitching to get them to add the route in the first place.
The city has never cared much about that route. It took heroic amounts bitching to get them to add the route in the first place.
Riz @78, that’s a 358 story if I ever heard one. You’ve made my day (well, that and Ref. 71).
And people wonder why people drive instead.
In the 48’s defense, I used to ride it from the Ave to Greenwood every night, around 11. One of the 48 night drivers was Carlos, cheery, attentive, and who instructed riders, “You be safe now,” as they disembarked. He was a great driver, worth writing a letter to Metro, and it’s possible that I skipped the other 48 sometimes just to be on his bus.
That was five years ago. Anybody know if he’s still driving?
routes #3 and #4 have traumatized me in some way each time I’ve had the misfortune of needing to take one of them. as kurtz gasped, the horror! the horror!
never again.
holy smokes i’m grateful i ride the 76.
Haven’t lived in Seattle for over a year, but I had some fine memories of the 358. The 7 could be a doozy too, until my usual stretch of it was replaced by the 49 – a fine route whose only flaw was its tendency to give up and stop running the second a snowflake hit the ground.
@55 I fell on the SLUT tracks 🙁 My knee is still fucked up. JUST SAYIN’.
Okay, you guys make me really glad I live in S.Seattle. The 107 and 153 are amazing. The drivers recognize me by name, smile (at midnight or 8am), and joke with me to my stop. They stop for people who are running to their stops, do special request drops, yet stay on time throughout. And the riders are just normal people – students and a variety of people just going to and from work.
After reading these comments I may buy all the riders and drivers flowers tomorrow.
@89: I’m sorry about your knee (truly!), but honestly, tens of thousands of Dutch people do it every single day. (I think the key is to cross them at a 90-degree angle, and if you’re heading in the north-south direction, just take a parallel street, of which there are many.)
I know that now!! I felt really dumb about it but it seems everyone falls at least once on the tracks and NEVER do it again.
My knee thanks you for your kind words.
131 anyone? slowest, most meandering route i know. over an hour from burien transit center to dwntwn, or vice versa. and i have ridden metro daily for the past 3-4 years. on no less than 15 different routes. as for filth rides, i have to agree with the sentiments on 358, 3, 4,and 7.
The best route used to be the 10. Now its faster to walk between 15th Ave and Downtown. Sometimes it doesn’t show up at all, which never used to happen.
The worst routes in the morning are all the Downtown to Cap Hill routes. They get clogged to capacity by SCC kids who can’t stand the 5 block walk from Downtown. Makes all the routes too late to count on.
The 5 shouldn’t be on this list. It’s mostly great, but sometimes AWFUL.. through no fault of anyone except that occasionally many, MANY old people with wheelchairs in Greenwood will position themselves every stop for 10 blocks to get on and off, delaying the 5 by about 25 minutes alone. (I know I know, I will be one of these old people in wheelchairs one day, so I’m not complaining, please don’t get all “U iz ECB” on me. But Greenwood can be a trap for endless handicap ramp operation, especially heading to downtown)
Out of these choices, I choose the 7…. only for this reason: on the way to Columbia City from downtown, it’s fine. One the way back to downtown at night, it’s fine too, except so many fucking assholes driving alongside try to cut off the 7 bus as a sport of some kind — causing the driver to slam on the breaks. It happened twice in a row when I rode it. The driver one time saw it coming, slammed on the breaks, laughed and said “Fifth time this week!” Jesus Christ!
Unpaid Intern mentioned that 174 and 358 don’t qualify because they exit Seattle at times. I think that’s just a dodge, IMHO. But perhaps they were left off because these two were just so fucking obvious!
I DO propose a 174 vs. 358 showdown poll! C’mon Unpaid Intern, the ultimate Worst Metro Bus World Series needs a venue.
I sort of love the 358, even though it’s the worst. I always end up standing, because I don’t ride for very long, but it’s definitely one of those buses where I pretend to listen to music but don’t because CRAZY PEOPLE. Also, there is a lady driver who always cusses, which is fun.
The main problems with the #8 (which is VERY necessary, thank you very much) is that Denny is a bitch of a street and Metro needs to use the bigger articulated buses on the busy morning and evening commutes…oh, and drivers who KNOW the route and all the tricks to manuever through it…more than once I’ve snapped at east bound drivers to get out of the right hand lane as you approach Stewart…also, give permission to drivers to ram cars that block Denny because they’re so damned desperate to get on I-5…i hate those motherfuckers!
I ride the 8 every day, going from Capitol Hill to Queen Anne (and back) and I have no idea what you are talking about. The bus is typically relatively punctual — a few minute delays here and there but nothing nuts — and the ride itself is less than 20 minutes in even the most extreme circumstances. What traffic is the bus getting stuck in?
Start riding it every day and you’ll realize that it’s nuts to compare the 8 to any of those other routes.
I was getting tired of riding the 358 every day in 2001, so I was talking to a co-worker about carpooling. Next morning I get on the bus an at the last stop before the bridge a 6 foot tall woman with red spiked hair is the last one on the bus. 830 in the morning. She announce to the packed bus full of commuters that “it smells like fuckin crank on this bus”. Suddenly the full aisle parts like the red sea, and I get a full view. 3 teeth, nails through the shoulder pads of the leather jacket and built like Lawrence Taylor. She stomps to my seat and says “can I sit in yur seat?” at top volume. She smelled Iike a mix of all the cleaning products under my sink and sweat. I was carpooling the next day.
Dwight @ 65, if you’re still reading this thread:
I lived in Boston for most of my life, so of course I know that bitching about the T is a civic sport. But expectations are relative — I used to abhor waiting for the orange line at night or on Sunday; 14 minutes is so atypically infrequent in Boston that it felt like an eternity. Now I would kill for anything in Seattle to come at regular 14-minute intervals. Trust me, make a return visit and see the T through the lens of your King County Metro experiences, and you will be mystified as to why you ever used to complain about it.
Despite the T’s issues (drowning in debt, worrisome maintenance backlog, general spitefulness towards its own customers), it accomplishes things the benign incompetents at K.C. Metro can’t even seem to envision. They recently fixed the bunching issues on the 1, 39, 66, 57, 77, etc. by placing extra buses mid-route, ready to go on a moment’s notice if the other ones start to bunch. (Metro, meanwhile, has drivers twiddling their thumbs on 35-minute layovers for each hour of driving.) Oh, and just last week, the T installed a stop-gap fix to that Silver Line lunacy: they put new bus lanes on Essex and Kneeland Streets and added a South Station branch to the Dudley line (without reducing existing Downtown Crossing service at all). They conceived, planned, environmentally reviewed, repaved, and began service in a matter of months!
Meanwhile, Metro squandered most of its “Transit Now” (transit when?) money beefing up frequencies on routes so inefficient (the 8) or circuitous (the 75, the fucking 25) that increased frequencies mean little. And I’m still waiting for my laughable “Rapid Ride” from Ballard, still in the no-specifics planning stages — although the plan for the West Seattle one shows 15-minute-ish intervals, and 30 after 10 PM (“So frequent you won’t need a schedule,” claims Metro).
You are absolutely correct in your analysis of what makes car ownership/use more or less attractive: the difficulty or expense of parking is a far greater deterrent than traffic. But Seattle’s push for density has come with minimum-parking requirements for new residences but no significant improvement in Metro, and those new residents are driving to their destinations. Capitol Hill now has a Harvard Square-level of parking difficulty, and Metro’s lousy Capitol Hill service is a huge part of that problem. (Yes, the mile from downtown is an easy walk, but it can be hard for many to justify a 35-minute bus ride + a 15-minute walk when the whole trip can be 12 minutes in car.)
Metro’s plan seems to be incremental improvement with none of the desperately-needed introspection about why it is so inefficient and unattractive to elective riders. It really needs rebuilding from the ground up: better routings, much greater frequency on those routes, a change to layover policy, an incentive to use a faster method of payment (institute a fare discount for ORCA, as Boston did, and eliminate paper transfers), a standardized policy for use of the back door (for starters, fucking use it), extensive driver retraining (if everyone in the right lane is turning right and blocked by pedestrians, get out of the right lane), replacement of as many high-floor buses (trolleybuses especially) as possible, new interiors with the oversized seats replaced with some standing/walking room to speed entry/exit, and some sort of vehicle-cleaning department (this currently doesn’t exist; thus the years-old grime/vomit stains/seat graffiti).
And, frankly, the city of Seattle needs to stop buying Metro passes for the homeless. I’d be in favor of twice-a-day vouchers to get to and from shelter beds and service centers, but it’s supposed to be a transit system; the city shouldn’t be using it as a homeless shelter.
I can’t remember which downtown bus it was that I rode once a week a few years back, there was a lady driver I will always remember who would read a book while stopped at red lights, and she would grumble/curse at people getting on and off the bus as soon as they got out of earshot.