In the New York Times‘ article on the Glenn Beck rally, among the infuriating descriptions of Beck and Palin’s calls for America to “turn back to God,” there’s this lovely bit from a woman named Becky Benson from Orlando, explaining why she was there:
“…We believe in Jesus Christ, and he is our savior.” Jesus, she said, would not have agreed with what she called the redistribution of wealth in the form of the economic stimulus package, bank bailouts and welfare. “You cannot sit and expect someone to hand out to you,” she said.
Now, I’m no religious scholar, and I guarantee Becky’s been to church a hell of a lot more than I have, but, let’s see.. Ah, yes, here it is. Mark 10:17-31:
Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.”
“Children, how hard is it for those who trust in riches to enter into the Kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.“
Maybe Becky is thinking of a different Jesus.
Anthony…you da man.
He doesn’t say how big the needle can be, or how small the camel. You see, this is why the Bible is open to interpretation.
not that i think god is real, and you didn’t specify which translation, but….
the “eye of the needle” was the name of a gate in the wall of Jerusalem. to pass through it, a camel had to kneel and crawl. the point of the parable seems more likely to be “people used to having all the power have a hard time submitting” than “no rich people in heaven.”
@3 – Yes of course, it’s all parables. But it’s clear that Jesus was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth, and would have LOVED welfare.
You don’t really expect anyone who believes someone was born from a virgin is going to think in any logical way, do you?
In fact if it makes sense there’s no faith involved…. and faith is what they’re about. That and distortion to make whatever point is needed at the moment.
@3 That tortured “the eye of a needle is a canyon!!!” interpretation is pretty much a load of BS that’s rejected by any serious biblical scholar. Unless you count “rich Christian trying to make himself feel better” as a serious scholar. In Judaism–and remember, Jesus was among Jews–references to passing through an eye of a needle are either to a) describe impossible acts or b) show the miraculous work of God as he accomplishes impossible acts. These aren’t “difficult” acts. They are not “humbling” acts. They are impossible, except by the grace of God.
It’s fairly clear he isn’t just making a gentle “you have to be humble” observation when that passage is read in its entirety:
As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'”
“Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”
Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
Peter said to him, “We have left everything to follow you!”
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
Glen Beck = False Prophet #1
I’ve always interpreted this differently, i.e. spiritual awakening is only available to those who renounce worldly possessions. Christianity certainly has its roots as a religion for the socioeconomically disenfranchised, but this parable is less about temporal-historical social welfare issues than about the eternal problem of being blinded by our material addictions. “You can’t take it with you as they say.”
I doubt she’s going to be swayed by this explanation, since, being a religious follower of Glenn Beck, she’s quite likely to be poor, and both poverty and religious faith are good predictors of charitable giving.
http://tinyurl.com/2398ejv
If the Dems were smart they’d accuse Beck and Palin of trying to start a religious war. But that’s if they were smart.
Suck it Jesus! Take Beck and Palin with you!
I wonder if these “Christians” attending the rally know that Beck is a Mormon, which is really equivalent to being a Muslim for fundamentalists.
@9: OK, but how much of that money actually goes to helping the poor, and how much goes to building megachurches and funding their pastors’ personal helicopters?
My guess is the woman quoted in this article thinks Jesus actually said “God helps those who help themselves.”
She’s thinking of trickle-down Jesus, who saves the rich, and the rich, through their actions, save the poor who observe them.
Well, she’s probably also of the “If’n English was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for them furriners too!” crowd as well.
I supposed Becky would also have problems with this from Matthew 22:
I don’t recall the passages following this saying “except those in the top tax brackets”.
Where’s my “like” button for this?
They call themselves Christians, yet ignore the Bible. They call themselves constitutionalists, yet ignore the constitution.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
These people show the greatest reverence for documents they have not actually read.
A couple of points to make here: The idea of re-distributing wealth starts in the Deuteronomy and the Year of the Jubilee.
And someone mentioned Virgin Birth. Another misunderstood concept. Virgin Birth refers to the idea that Jesus magically appeared from his mother’s womb. Apparated, if you will. Therefore his mother remained a virgin, hymen unbroken even in birth.
@3, The notion that the “Eye of the Needle” was a Jerusalem gate that camels had to kneel to get through is baloney. No shred of evidence of such a gate, or such a concept, exists.
What does exist is a long tradition of religious parables about the difficulty of animals (camels, elephants) passing through the eye of a sewing needle.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read…
Tell someone you watch the Disney channel, and you will be mocked. Tell them you read the Bible, and……seriously, fairy tales are fairy tales. Can you imagine what visitors to this planet would think of us?
This is a very standard argument made by liberals against religious conservatives, and it has a very standard weak point. Giving away your own money is not the same as giving away someone else’s money. Nowhere did Jesus say: “Go find a rich person, shake him down and give his stuff away to others. Some to the poor, put most to old people and middle-class homebuyers.”
As liberal NYT columnist Nicholas Kristof has often lamented, the evidence is very clear that (yes, controlling for income and other variables) religious conservatives donate a much larger fraction of their disposable income than secular liberals.
But haven’t any of you seen the gospel of Supply Side Jesus?
Jesus was all about trickle down economics!
A better example is from the very early church, in Acts 2: 43-47:
43 Awe came upon everyone, because many wonders and signs were being done by the apostles. 44All who believed were together and had all things in common; 45they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds* to all, as any had need. 46Day by day, as they spent much time together in the temple, they broke bread at home* and ate their food with glad and generous* hearts, 47praising God and having the goodwill of all the people. And day by day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved.
Amen.
David, did you miss the bit about Caesar?
And do build on my last comment, those who say America is (or should be) a “Christian nation” would do well to read that particular passage.
my my my
Slog dispensing Biblical Doctrine-
it’s precious.
Lucky for Becky she doesn’t have to have her religious views or interpretation of the Bible vetted by the HomoLiberal Thought Police.
believe what you wish, Slog…..
but keep your filthy perverted deviant hands off Becky and her beliefs…..
17
you are aware that 50% of Americans pay ZERO Federal Income Tax, aren’t you?
are you advocating that America’s tax laws be balanced so the freeloading mooching half of the nation also ‘render to Ceasar’?
is THAT what you’re advocating?
Sigh. Did Jesus say for the government to take people’s money from them and give it to the poor? No. He said people should do it themselves. And clearly doing it themselves is important, because presumably entrance into heaven is not dependent on what the government makes you do, but on your own choices.
Would Jesus support welfare? No idea, and I don’t particularly care, not being a Christian. But I do know that saying charity is a virtue and supporting welfare are NOT identical, and that Jesus said as much about political systems as he did about the gays– that is, nothing. People trying to pretend otherwise, for whatever reason, gives me a headache. Please stop.
The dominant religious business model demands that practitioners give part of their income to their church. This is not charitable giving. It’s paying dues to the club. Charitable giving in most churches is simply investing in future subscribers.
How it’s worked for most Western Civilization is that the military industrial wing of a country destroys a culture, and then the religious, or PR wing of the country moves in with ‘charity’ to convert the destroyed culture. Religion supplies the righteousness and inhumanity required for human beings to subjugate whole cultures, and then willing workers to help perpetuate the military industrial complex.
Giving to a church isn’t charity.
@32 There’s no difference between citizens of a democracy getting together and electing a government that provides welfare, and giving to charity individually.
I’m sorry that there are people out there that would rather give to corrupt churches that claim to be charities, but I’m going to vote for a welfare state because I know rationally that it’s better for everyone if we all have a safety net.
As far as whether Jesus would be pro-welfare, I don’t care either, but that wacky old Rabi was very clear on what he thought of people that horde wealth like the leaders and core of the right wing movement in this country do. Jesus would have hated Glenn Beck’s guts. He also would probably be mortified that Sarah Palin (a woman) was allowed to speak to such a huge crowd in public too.
Please, can someone get the video of beck speaking overdubbed with sound from any Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speech? that would really tie this weekend together.
@32 – for the record, I’m agreeing with you. But how many of those people who are claiming that America is or should be a “Christian nation” really give most of what they have to the poor. Or even give a fraction of it to any charitable organization that deals with hunger, homelessness, or educational issues? Not many at my church, I can tell you.
And I can admit that I am among those who don’t – I give as generously as I can, but I promise you I still live a comfortable life, and probably have more stuff than I strictly need. But I don’t claim to take the Bible literally, and I don’t want governement policies built around the Bible.
Christianity, like Capitalism, is a great ideology, but rarely practiced by its adherents.
@37: Capitalism is rarely practiced by its adherents? What the hell are you talking about?
@24, 32 – Please. You cannot possibly be making the argument that Jesus, from what we know of him both historically and biblically, would have supported the policies of Glenn Beck, the Tea Party, and their ilk. Be serious.
Next time you meet a crazy Christian who also happens to love Glenn Beck, be sure to remind them that he’s a Mormon who believes Christ and Satan were brothers. Then watch their heads explode.
The theological underpinning of the Tea Party is found in Melanesian cargo cults, not the Bible.
@38
Capitilism, is really not nepotism or crony-ism or even yeah … Capitalism is providing goods for the demand of the market. It’s not …
whatever the hell so called capitalists are doing.
@31: Did Jesus say that the poor should get rid of all their possessions? The poor should not be expected to uphold the rich; they should give, yes, but not beyond their ability.
@38: In a true capitalist economy, failing banks would not be bailed out by the government; it’s all survival of the fittest in an entirely open market.
Everyone, you’re injuring Rillion. He’s (perhaps it’s?) fragile, with all this talk of Tinkle-On Jeebus. Please stop.
I’m guessing she was talking about Jesus Quintana. And you don’t fuck with The Jesus!
@45: Abide, dude.
I mean, let it go.
Jesus as we know him historically?
Awww, you’re a kidder.
Remember that these are STORIES from a GOSPEL BOOK. The character “Jesus” says what the Gospel writers want him to say. They didn’t find some papers or an old tape recording.
Jesus is as he always was: a paper doll that does and says what people who use him want him to say. Scripture be damned (obviously). There ain’t nuthin else but scripture, babies. No authentic historical records from contemporaries–one would wonder why that was if he was actually so important. Makes more sense to me that he is “Generic Mythological Action Figure” tm.
“Historical.” Hilarious.
43
and in the Qunited States of Gaymerica
ONE HALF of all Americans
are sooooo POOR
they cannot pay ONE PENNY
in Federal Income Taxes?!
is this the HomoLiberal Socialist dream for our nation?
Becky believes in the NEW and IMPROVED christainity. Jesus wouldn’t make the cut today.
I’ve always liked these:
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
—Luke 6:27-30. NIV
You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
—Romans 12:19-20
I don’t know how any Christian can insist welfare is wrong for given these passages.