The only thing more outrageous than a woman casually obtaining abortion after abortion—using abortion as a birth control method—would be compelling the kind of woman who would use abortion as birth control to bring a child into the world after she hit the “sane limit” of abortions allowed her under a plan designed to prevent women from obtaining too “obscenely large” a number of abortions. (Exact number of abortions allowed to an individual woman TBD… but by whom?)

Would a woman who ran out of abortions really be a fit and loving parent to the kid(s) born to her after she hit her abortion limit? What kind of a mother would that woman make?

104 replies on “Aborted Logic”

  2. Oh my god. What a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad plan for limiting abortions. What a sad life for that poor sucker of a kid who came next.

  4. I believe you misunderstand the intent of the legislation. The law would no doubt require her uterus to be ripped out and pinned to her sackcloth dress while she stood in the stocks being spat on by the righteous. Then she would have her option of stoning, drowning or being burned at the stake.

  5. No, and that’s why after n+1 abortions, she should have her uterus removed. The trick is ensuring women never know what n is, so it’ll have to be something like a die roll, where for each abortion we add one more “you lose” side.

  6. @3 My first thought was they should just tie her tubes while they’re in there. Except, that would be removing her right to choose her own reproductive path.

    I have a hard time believing multiple abortions are good for you (of course, halfway through my third (fourth) pregnancy, I’m not so sure pregnancy itself is good for you…). What she did and said is calloused – to assume you should be ahead of others who’ve waited their turn and then to blab about her multiple abortions without knowing the circumstances of others around her. But this one woman cannot possibly be the typical abortion-seeker.

  7. Seems like the legislation should just follow that of whatever dictated that my friend and her partner were able to adopt two kids in six months. The first was a newborn of a woman already declared an unfit mother by the state; the second was the newborn’s toddler brother. So if the state knows the mom is bad but she keeps shooting out kids anyway, the state (apparently) keeps taking them away and adopting them out to loving couples.

  9. “A reader writes” sounds a lot like hearsay to me. Loving the Madonna/Whore dichotomy of the poor, genetically unfortunate woman trying to have a child (sob) vs. the rabid abortion seeker.

  11. The “it was no big deal” and “had several more appointments to keep that day.” sums up the mentality of many who go through with this, after the second one they become desensitized. I also believe there should be a limit for those seeking abortions for other reasons than having been the victim of a rape or having their lives seriously threatened by it perhaps.

  12. @6, when a woman is so blatantly irresponsible and stupid, i think the right to choose her reproductive path should be changed. if not for her, or for her child, then for the rest of us, so that those unbelievably fucking STUPID genetics don’t spread.
    besides, if she’s so blase about aborting them, i doubt she really ever wants them.
    of course, one must consider that abortions as they are can put the patient at risk of infertility and y’know…that’s there. after a certain amount of them, just…snip something here, twist there. i’m not saying lie to women about it. but…5’s idea might not be so bad.
    lemme be straight, i’m pro-choice. i’m just not pro-STUPID.

  13. That story is such bullshit. Even 27 years ago, what emergency rooms were providing anything other than emergency abortions?

    @6,

    That’s not how abortions work. There’s no access to tie a woman’s tubes.

  14. Freedom to marry anyone you want isn’t in any state constitution, but I support it. It’s one of those implied rights. thank god we have activist judges who find these implied rights, otherwise words like liberty and equality just don’t have any content, right?

    So this means for that freedom to be effective, you don’t have to have a birth before you want to! That’s freedom, too. It’s all part of this fundamental freedom. Freddom, freedom, freedom!

  16. This woman makes me sick and gives abortions a bad name. I think people on both sides of the spectrum can agree that this is not what we want to happen.

  17. Yes.

    Give that messed up POS as many abortions as she can handle. Please allow her to rid society of the burden she is threatening.

    I would much rather these insane biotches continue to have abortions than to become those woman who continue to fill this world with unloved, uncared for, unwanted, resented children who just grow up to repeat the disgusting mistakes of their parents.

    To all anti-choicest, if your concern really had anything to do with the “child” you would do some serious research on the negative psychological effects unwanted children face. And how many of you adopt these unwanted children? How many of you actually “save them”? Get off your high horse and realize that you don’t really care about them … you just want to have control over woman and their sex.

  19. @11
    who is this “they” you’re talking about? How many women do you know who have had to go through multiple abortions and just shrugged it off? Judging from my friends who have had abortions, they were not “desensitized,” but simply felt that their actions were in their best interest, as well as the best interest of their potential offspring. Even if it happened more than once. By placing a limit on abortions you’re saying you can only fuck up a couple times, and then you must bring a child into the world. And yes, I know you can put it up for adoption, but there’s not exactly a shortage of children who need adopting in this world, it seems necessarily callous to add to that number and force the mother to go through the emotional turmoil of carrying to term.

  21. I’m with #1 only I would make it a referendum. Should Churches that are against abortion be charged for the upbringing of children of women who forego an abortion? The answer is YES! That would shut their fucking mouths.

  22. HEY NOW, EVERYBODY CHILL.

    I’ll wager a beer or two that Andrew Sullivan was just trolled, Andrew trolled Dan, or Dan trolled us.

    This ‘serial abortion’ story sounds like the ‘conservative kid flummoxes liberal professor’ story. Trite, button-pushing, over the top, improbable, agenda-driven, and probably having a zillion variants passed around on email forwards.

  23. @20 what makes you think someone forced into carrying out a pregnancy is going to give their child up for adoption? Just because they are forced to carry out an unwanted pregnancy because of some neanderthal’s limit on abortions does not mean that they are automatically going to carry out the ideal conclusion which would be to give the baby up for adoption.

    I find these multiple abortion as birth control types grotesque as well, don’t get me wrong, but I honestly believe that it is also the best all around solution for those unfortunate people.

  24. Dan, you’re missing the point. That child has a right to be born into its horrible life and suffer through a chaotic childhood, whether its horrible, uncaring, mentally fractured parent wants it or not. We can only allow women to kill so many babies before they have to stop, right?

    And Loveschild @11, I’m sorry, but you utterly lack credibility in this issue. Are you an abortion care provider? Have you done any long-term studies of women who undergo multiple abortions? Do you even know anyone who’s had even one abortion (and by “know” I do not in fact mean “be casually acquainted with and secretly contemptuous of,” but rather a meaningful relationship which might actually grant you insight into her emotional state)? You’re talking utterly out your ass and everyone can tell. Go back to Bible-thumping about gays. You’re still wrong but at least you have a coherent position there.

  25. 1. Whoever questioned the veracity of this story has a VERY good point. The fact that Sullivan felt this was credible enough to post says a lot about his mindset.

    2. Assuming this woman actually existed, she sounds like she was mentally ill. So, ABSOLUTELY parent material. Oy vey.

  26. @23, I agree. Especially because at the end the writer did a nifty little conflation of late-term and early-term abortions: “I am a firm believer in a woman’s right to choose to abort, but there must be a sane limit to the ability to obtain an obscenely large number. And it’s difficult to envision the circumstance where the need to have such a late-term procedure would be truly justified.”

    Along with all of the misgivings already expressed above, I have a hard time believeing that ER’s are giving on-demand late-term abortions. I haven’t read Roe V. Wade in a long time, but I thought that was the point.

  29. See, this is what I really don’t understand about the Woman Who Aborts as Birth Control: Is it really “convenience”? It’s really more convenient to make an appointment, wait, undergo the physically traumatic procedure, and recover, rather than using contraception in the first place or a morning-after pill? It’s why I find these stories so dubious.

    Don’t get me wrong; I can *believe* such women exist, because irresponsible morons exist as a percentage of every group, but I can’t believe they exist in any significant number — not enough to deny other women their rights to choice. I’d be very interested if anyone can come up with a study that cites real numbers and cases.

  30. I’ve been pointing that out myself in the past.

    I’m amazed that the anti-choice continues to flog the “OMG Sluts are using it as birth control!” Like it’s waaayyyyy more fun to shell out $400+, run a gauntlet of screaming, violent protesters, and have your uterus scraped out every few months than it is to spend a few bucks on a pack of condoms or a few more bucks on a prescription of birth control. And if such a woman existed — a woman who actually got a thrill from going and having abortions–we’d want her in charge of a baby WHY?

    Oh, yes, the old “she can give it up for adoption” chestnut. Because women are just brood mares or something. Plus, a woman who’s so completely irresponsible that she doyyyyy forgets to take her pills or oooooppps forgets to tell him to put a condom on is going to do the prenatal stuff that’s critical to ensuring a healthy (adoptable) baby.

    Also, isn’t this a little 3/5 of a person rule? I mean, if you’re in favor of someone being allowed to have one abortion, why shouldn’t they be allowed to have 50? It’s either a life or it isn’t. If you’re freaking out because someone hit their “abortion limit” you’re basically admitting that you’ve got some weird unboxed feelings about abortion but you don’t want to get off the friggin’ fence. Or you’re just freaked out that women are having sex and not “paying the price” like you feel they should be, but want to keep the option legal for women you happen to care about in your own life.

    The stupid, it burns!

  31. @20: I have similar feelings. It reminds me of people who squeal over kittens and puppies at the pound but fall out of love when the animals grow up.

  32. I’m with @9 and @13. “A reader writers”? I’m a reader, and I write that this story sounds completely fabricated.

  34. Of course it’s bullshit! Even if some semblance of the damned thing actually happened names, places and events were changed to make the story more “interesting.”

    We should write one of our own …

  35. 25 Sadly I do have a personal relation (not through studies) with a woman who went through a very similar experience and just as I describe after the second (for no life threatening reason) became desensitized to going through with them, it messed up her relationships. It was only through her friends, faith and learning more about what she was doing to her mind and body that she changed her mind on and what she saw as casual visit to the doctor. I have come to know that only through faith and self learning can attitudes on this be changed because some will seek them even if it’s illegal in a more risky way, that however does not mean that more strict regulations should not to be placed. There’s a societal need of informing women of the dangers to their emotional and physical health and that needs to be done in a more approachable non judgemental way also.

  37. @31: Or like saying, I don’t know… THESE gay people can be married and society won’t fall apart, but THESE gay people can’t get married.

  39. @18:

    Beat me to it – great minds and all.

    And @11, based on your previous ramblings, I seriously doubt you have even the slightest understanding of the struggle the overwhelming majority of women go through when coming to the decision of whether or not to abort a pregnancy. The sheer audacity of even attempting to present yourself as any kind of authority on that particular topic is so patently offensive, I cannot begin to express it.

  40. The argument that your typical abortion-seeker sees abortion as a casual choice is just more evidence that the anti-abortion crowd does not give a shit about babies. Hear me out. If they really imagine that a woman who gets abortions is making a casual choice, that means that they view having the child as an equally casual choice. And what kind of monster thinks that having a child is something that you can just casually do, like getting a goldfish?

    That, and their opposition to birth control. All across the board, everyone knows that birth control prevents abortions better than anything else in existence. All across the board, anti-choice people claim that their goal is to reduce abortions. So you’d think that, all across the board, these people would be the most fierce advocates of birth control access. And yet, all across the board, the anti-choice crowd are the most avid opponents of birth control.

    In other words, they are not trying to prevent abortion. They are trying to prevent sex. They see a fetus not as an innocent victim (like they claim), but as a symbol of sexual consequences. And if there’s one thing the anti-sex crowd hates, it’s sex without consequences (especially for women). That is the only reason they could possibly be against both birth control AND legal abortion. It is such a glaring paradox that even they have to be aware of it.

  41. I, a reader, write that this one time, like, 15 years ago, I was in the emergency room waiting for treatments for burns sustained while rescuing kittens who had been set on fire. All of a sudden, a nun burst into the ER crying saying she needed an abortion because she’d been raped by a Communist, and her fellow nuns had kicked her out of the convent.

    There happened to be a group of Operation Rescue members in the ER who had been injured while setting fire to the kittens that I rescued (because their mother was an irresponsible slut who couldn’t keep her legs closed!). They became irate, screaming that this nun would be going to hell for aborting her baby. They all pulled out their stoning sacks and began to stone her to death right there in the ER.

    Well, despite my injuries, I jumped up and was able to pull the nun to safety before it was too late. What a contrast we presented — one women who saves kittens and nuns from angry mobs, and an angry mob of pro-lifers who sets fire to kittens and tries to stone nuns.

    True story.

  42. Irving — yep. I’m honestly shocked and amazed that H8 was upheld in the CA high court… telling one segment of group A that they have this right (that it won’t be taken away from them) whereas telling the rest of group A that they can’t have that right for themselves seems like a pretty direct violation of equal protection under the law.

  43. Also, seconding the point that’s been said a bunch of times already, but needs to be hammered into people’s heads:

    If someone really, REALLY is just casually getting abortions every month so that it’s become routine, she is the LAST person that you want to deny abortions to. You do not want her raising a child. And if she has some big, born-again Christian turn-around, she will end up raising another Loveschild, and we don’t want that either.

    Also, adoption is not a universal alternative to abortion. There are not nearly enough non-abusive foster parents out there for adoption to be some guaranteed, run-of-the-mill option. Especially with people trying so damn hard to prevent gays from adopting; and (surprise! surprise!) many of those people are also anti-birth control and anti-choice. So much for giving a shit about babies, or knowing jack shit about basic “cause and effect.”

  44. @20:

    There may be a waiting list for people who want new-born, healthy, and white (or sometimes Asian) babies. Not so long of a line for older, physically or mentally disabled, or brown babies though, is there?

  45. 6
    “removing her right to choose her own reproductive path” seems a ridiculously small penalty to extract from a serial killer….

  46. Loveschild @ 36,

    Thanks for sharing your personal understanding. Your friends situation only speaks for her personal situation.

    I have two friends, and I’m talking 10+ years long. Neither of them became desensitized to it, both of them are Christians. The decisions were very difficult for both, and one had to endure making the decision twice.

    This is a very complex issue. One can’t just rely on the personal testimony of one friend, as no one person can speak for all. We need to work to keep abortion safe and legal, while also providing affordable contraception, affordable maternal and pediatric health care, comprehensive sex education, access to maternity leave, and increasing the minium wage. It only makes sense for those who strive to lessen the number of abortions performed to support measures to lessen the number of conceptions. And, to work to eliminate the poverty that is often linked to the lives of those who seek abortions. That is why groups like Planned Parenthood need our support.

  47. @36 I have a personal story as well. About 10 years ago I used to volunteer at a daycare in an alternative school for teenage mothers. Many of these young mothers were coerced into carrying out their pregnancies by closed minded people with no intent on actually helping the girls through their pregnancies or with their parenting. These same girls felt that they “could not” give these children up for adoption after “what they had been through” (the pregnancy that is, it’s selfish, but these are teenage girls, they are inherently selfish). The majority of these children were not well cared for, they smelled of cigarettes, some would wear the same clothing for a week, the mothers had little to no empathy for their own children, they were too young to understand about bringing life into this world. The children that were seemingly well cared for were mostly being raised by their grandparents who also resented their grandchildren for being forced into parenthood again. The babies and toddlers themselves were always sick and dirty and stressed. Many had to take medications from ailments brought on by stress and anxiety.

    These girls were required to take classes in parenting, to attend career counseling, as well as having the option of classes in cooking, sewing and other home economic type subjects. These classes were required in order to be at the school. Yet that did not change anything about these girls. Their attitude was that they knew better.

    One of the little boys in that daycare went on recently to impregnate an 11 year old girl. He himself was 11. She had the baby.

    This is what it really means to force unwanted children into this world, and these scenarios are certainly not limited to teenage mothers.

    Should abortion be the only option? Of course not. More education to prevent the unwanted pregnancy in the first place should be priority number one. But should abortion be a prevalent option to prevent these sorts of tragedies being inflicted upon innocent children with no say in their rearing? Yeah, it definitely should be. Is that the only reason that abortion should be an option for ALL WOMEN … nope … but it is a pretty compelling argument. If you don’t believe me, volunteer in a similar daycare yourself.

  49. i’m totally sure that this story is completely true, and happens all the time. by which i mean, what fucking bullshit.

    if true, we don’t legislate peoples’ lives based on the most-fucked-up-asshole-i-one-time-met-while-i-was-having-a-meltdown-and-completely-in-a-position- to-judge-because-i-am-so-fucking-holy-and-self-important model. if we do, then we have to get busy on banning alcohol, guns, candy, and wedding movies.

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