…doesn’t reduce the number of abortions.
Restricting the availability of legal abortion does not appear to reduce the number of women trying to end unwanted pregnancies, a major report suggests. The Guttmacher Institute’s survey found abortion occurs at roughly equal rates in regions where it is legal and regions where it is highly restricted.
Banning abortion only makes abortions more dangerous and kills women—which is what many opponents of abortion are after, really. They want people who have sex to be punished. Seventy-thousand woman die every year as a result of unsafe abortions in countries where abortion is illegal. So let’s just say it, shall we? American opponents of reproductive freedom—people who seek to ban abortion—are trying to kill American women. The end.
Guess what does reduce the number of abortions? Improved access to contraception.
Allegedly, @176, 177, you really have an issue with the term personhood, or the idea that we sometimes have to decide when a thing is given rights and protections from when it’s not, even going as far as comparing such an delineation to the atrocities of the Third Reich or Pre-abolitionist America, which I’m sure was meant to be a spectacular analogy, but only pegs you as a hysterical alarmist and offends those who actually know the diff….
But it’s not about delineation. You’re clear that a single spermatozoon shouldn’t have rights, nor an unfertilized ovum, yes? Because one could just as easily make your just-as-bad-as-the-Nazis speech about failing to providing rights and protections to these, or toasters, or hangnails, or teratomas. What you disagree with is not the concept of personhood in and of itself, just the more logical places that it falls, rather than where you want it to fall.
So, Allegedly, does a zygote have more rights or fewer than the woman who hosts it?
What are the circumstances in which the owner of property should be allowed to evict trespassers, Allegedly?
In what circumstances should a landlord be allowed to evict squatters? Huh, Allegedly?
The comparison of unborn children to squatters or trespassers is obscene and perverted.
The ‘landlord’ created the living being in her body, through voluntary knowing actions.
The baby was created and put there by the woman and her partner.
It is solely her/their actions that cause the baby to exist and to be where it is.
Now she screams “trespasser!” and “squatter!”?
Her protests are lies and fraud.
She knows why the baby is inside her.
She knows who “invited” it there.
She gave it a nine month lease when she put it there.
When people engage in behavior they know can create another human being they take upon themselves moral obligations.
The life within the woman’s womb is a specially created and invited guest.
Her lack of manners and hospitality are beyond appalling.
Some contend that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for inhospitality.
If so we wonder at the fate of mothers who turn on their own children with burning saline and razor sharp surgical blades.
In the Court of Natural Justice to which we all must eventually answer the ill advised unjustified false cries of “trespasser!” and “squatter!” will be rejected out of hand with derision and contempt.
The tables will be turned on the treacherous false hearted accuser when counter accusations of “lease breaker” and “duplicitous swindler” are returned.
Will “murderer” also appear on the bill of accusations?
To maintain itself a species must reproduce and train and raise it’s young to the point that they are functional adults. This requires, especially in mammals as ourselves, a degree of sacrifice for and affection toward our young, from the earliest point of their development.
One might argue, and the barrage of child abuse in a multitude of various forms and manifestations that Dan spews forth here daily would confirm, that homo sapiens is failing that task.
One might perceive than humankind have lost natural affections, including toward their offspring, and recognize the alarming implications of that.
The view of pregnancy as punishing women by inflicting them with child and accusations that children are trespassers and squatters in the womb are cold blooded, unnatural and disconcerting to a biologist.
203
In America a zygote has no rights.
At all.
So both sides of the street can be offended by crass juxtapositions. Allegedly @204, I think I’m beginning to learn your language.
So the Court of Natural Justice to which we all must eventually answer does that refer to some terrestrial entity, Allegedly or are we talking the divine? The same, perhaps that nuked Sodom and Gomorrah for displeasing Him? Perhaps, Allegedly, there’s a confession lying under the skin that you weep for the non-existant for reasons of faith?
You know how faith fits into legislation.
And you know what the bible has to say about abortion.
And that’s why you don’t go there.
But moving with our chosen metaphors (I just held them up for viewing; you’re the one who designated how they fit). You don’t take into account those landlords who cannot afford fencing, or have been purposefully obstructed from attaining it. You don’t take into account those landlords whose locks have failed them, who were in a region where locks weren’t usually necessary, or who were misinformed about the necessity of locks.
Is sex only for procreation, Allegedly?
Should people be expected to abstain from sex until they intend to procreate? Is that the way it should be, Allegedly?
Are all mothers who had abortions going to Hell, Allegedly?
Are you a degreed biologist, Allegedly @205? You freaked out to a degree quite unbecoming of a biologist when I likened a prenate to a parasite. In what branch do you specialize?
Do you think that abortions will depopulate the Earth, Allegedly?
Do you think that any woman who gets pregnant should, regardless of circumstances, submit herself graciously to the service of motherhood? Is that the way things are, Allegedly?
As @208 With link fixed:
Do you think that any woman who gets pregnant should regardless of circumstances, submit herself graciously to the service of motherhood? Is that the way things are, Allegedly @205?
200,
“is the embryo alive?
is the embryo human?”
Personhood is what makes us special. Not being made of human tissue, not being alive.
I know this is too big a concept for you to grasp, but really, try to think with more than your raw instincts.
A cat is alive. So was the fish I had for breakfast this morning. “Life” as a biological process is not ours to monopolize. And that is all a zygote has, Allegedly, a biological process. No mind, no emotion, no imagination. It’s growth and beating heart no different than that of a chicken.
Second point: Human. Cancer is made of the same tissue as the rest of your body. Scrape off some of my skin. By YOUR deffinition, that little shred is my twin brother, and when I toss the band-aid in the trash I’m commiting murder.
Believe me, it could develop into my twin. We’d have to fiddle th DNA back into an egg cell, bake in a female volunteer for nine months, boom: my twin. How terrible if I had treated him the same way I’d treated every other drop of blood I’d ever shed.
A lump of goo with unique human DNA is still only that: a lump of goo. Not an infant, baby, child, or any of your other pet names.
Yes, if left on it’s own, and allowed to feed on it’s host bloodstream for a few months, it has a chance to develop into an infant.
But right now, it is not yet a person. Killing it is not, and never will be, equal to a real murder.
No consciousness, thought, or person has been snuffed out. Only the building blocks, blueprints, and scaffolding.
Shall I be tried for genocide every time I flush a wad of sperm down the toilet? They are each certainly “alive and human” by your definition.
207
when you stop hyperventilating google ‘natural justice’
We don’t have an interest or opinion about peoples’ private intimate behavior.
However, when a new member of the species is created all Mankind has an interest in how it is treated.
‘Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere’, after all.
Do you care if children starve in Africa?
210
Humanity is what makes us special.
More than just a collection of cells and tissue that operate based on hard wired instinct.
Cats sometimes eat their young.
They are not being evil when they do it.
Humans will give their lives to protect their young.
They are acting on something higher than instinct when they do.
Something ennobling.
Something that makes us special.
Humans sometimes kill their own young.
They are not acting on instinct when they do.
They are responding to inhumane impulses that debase.
They have lost what can make us special.
@213 – do you have any references for that?
Uriel, Woodbun and Attitude Devant – you rock! excellent posts,exceptionally well done research, presented in calm and polite manner.
@213 and the rest of you grayed out posters: remember, abortion will never become illegal again in US. Never.Just as Prohibition will never be repeated, because we learned from it’s mistakes.
If you truly want to decrease the number of abortions, work to prevent unwanted pregnancies, support the measures to make birth control more available to undeprivileged. But certain amount of abortions will always be performed, as long as the world exist. Don’t you agree they should be done in legal, safe conditions, and by a professional vs. back alley style?
Really, Allegedly @211, 212 you prance about like a child frustrated he seldom wins, but just got lucky. It’s really unbecoming.
I take, by your behavior Allegedly, your intent here is merely to mock, not to educate, not to advance, just to be a nuisance. Yes?
So, tell me, what does natural justice have to do with any of this? Can you please explain, Allegedly, this Court of Natural Justice to which we all must eventually answer that you anticipate as inevitable?
Do you care if Teddy Ruxpins end up in landfill, Allegedly?
Do you really believe, Allegedly, by making the same crass juxtapositions over and over again you will somehow yield a different result?
They have medications for that, you know.
215
never say never
It is so weird to me that people think we should deny abortions to women who got pregnant “irresponsibly.” If someone comes to you and says, “Look I don’t use birth control consistently, so now I’m pregnant and I’m just not up to carrying this child, or mothering this child… I mean, heck!, I’ve been on a drinking binge this last month and I don’t know who the father is….” Well, do you think it’s a good idea to say, “Nope, sorry, you don’t meet my criteria for eligibility for abortion, so let me enroll you in prenatal care?” I mean, follow that scenario to it’s miserable conclusion, would you?
I remember the first time I was interviewing such a patient, and I went to my department chair to complain about the patient’s attitude and he smiled wryly at me and said, “Well, what she’s telling you is that she’s responsible enough to know she shouldn’t be a mother.” I don’t see many such women but I always remember him when I do.
It’s been an interesting thread, but I’m signing off here. Alinka, Woodbun, Uriel, Rev. Smith, et alia, thank you for your comments. You nameless commenters (and you, and only you, know who you are) take care. If you ever want to seriously discuss, please register—all you’re doing right now is making crazed pronouncements without having to explain yourselves. Kind of pointless….
213,
You’re kind of ‘special’ yourself.
An abortion, as I have pointed out, is not the same as killing a child, it is simply preventing one from forming. “Humanity” is what makes us smart enough to realize that.
And for the record, women that get one or two abortions in their 20s tend to settle down and have two or three kids in their 30s. They make excellent, responsible parents, especially since they waited until they were older, more experienced, and more financially stable to try raising kids.
To add to @219, 60% of abortions are obtained by women who have one or more children.
attitude devant, thank you! I appreciate your involvement on this thread. Indeed, I’ve learned a lot from your experiences as an abortion provider, including how I was betrayed by my own high-school (as if that’s news).
Woodbun, thank you also for your input. You and I share a lot of common positions regarding the abortion controversy, and it was cool to see those positions from a different perspective. Thank you for registering, too. I hope you stick around SLOG.
Allegedly, it is too bad you are not willing to take on a distinct identities, since you do make a valid point now and then, and it’s hard to take you seriously in the ether or anonymity in which you dwell. (One never knows if I’m getting a response from the same Allegedly that I previously addressed.) Aside from, or perhaps because of your low content-to-attitude ratio you function as passable training opposition, and from what I’ve seen, adequately represent the hard-line conservative belief systems and talking points. Kudos for serving as the catalyst that perpetuates the reaction.
I think that abortion is wrong unless the baby is a result of rape. Otherwise it just makes me feel sick. And I know the mother might not be able to take care of the child but is murder really the answer or maybe some parenting help?
FACTS:
•Pain receptors begin to appear in the seventh week of pregnancy.
•The heartbeat begins on the 21st day after conception.
•Approximately 46 million abortions are performed globally each year.
•Of these, 26 million are said to occur in places where abortion is legal; the other 20 million happen where it is illegal.
•Approximately 26% of pregencies are aborted.
I do strongly believe that life begins at conception and should not be terminated unless the mother, the baby or both are in danger of losing their lives. If one is not ready to have children, then he/she should abstain from sex, use contraceptives, or other forms of birth control. It is irresponsible to have sex without protection especially in lieu of STDs. If however the baby is conceived, then one should look to adoption as an option. There are many families who will be glad to adopt the unwanted babies. It is also cruel to go through the pregnancy and dump the baby in a dumpster or toilet. It makes you wonder what the world has come to. No one says women should not have their rights but what if our parents had aborted us, none of us would be here today. Besides, you don’t know if the child you are aborting will be the next world leader.
Chiaka Awuzie
Beyond Attraction
http://www.strategicpublishinggroup.com/…
Woodburn, you are no better than a fetus, you are not even better than a dog turd. You can’t back up any of your claims because you only suscribe to leftist propaganda disinformation. You Woodburn, are an idiot. Satan is preparing your place in hell for an eternity. Obviously you ARE eligible to be president as based on the piece of dog feces Obama’s fraudulent office.
What the hell is this?!?!? I am appalled that any sane person would actually believe this crap.
I am a firm believer in pro life, and I can guarantee you that I don’t want to kill woman, I AM A WOMAN DAMN IT. I believe that people should have a chance to live their lives instead of having someone chose whether or not they should live. This is complete crap and america truly is screwed if people like you keep spreading lies like this. You should be ashamed of yourself.
What the hell is this?!?!? I am appalled that any sane person would actually believe this crap.
I am a firm believer in pro life, and I can guarantee you that I don’t want to kill woman, I AM A WOMAN DAMN IT. I believe that people should have a chance to live their lives instead of having someone chose whether or not they should live. This is complete crap and america truly is screwed if people like you keep spreading lies like this. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Bless you for the post, St. Savage, you’re one of our best guardian angels.
Thanks.