It’s not often that a post on a Christian blog makes me tear up.
A group of Christians got together last weekend and went to the pride parade in Chicago. They were there to wave signs and make their presence known and expose the homos to message of Jesus Christ. But unlike most self-identified Christians who show up at pride parades, these guys didn’t come to condemn. They came to apologize.
I spent the day at Chicago’s Pride Parade. Some friends and I, with The Marin Foundation, wore shirts with “I’m Sorry” written on it. We had signs that said, “I’m sorry that Christians judge you,” “I’m sorry the way churches have treated you,” “I used to be a bible-banging homophobe, sorry.” We wanted to be an alternative Christian voice from the protestors that were there speaking hate into megaphones.
What I loved most about the day is when people “got it.” I loved watching people’s faces as they saw our shirts, read the signs, and looked back at us. Responses were incredible. Some people blew us kisses, some hugged us, some screamed thank you. A couple ladies walked up and said we were the best thing they had seen all day. I wish I had counted how many people hugged me. One guy in particular softly said, “Well, I forgive you.”
Watching people recognize our apology brought me to tears many times. It was reconciliation personified.
My favorite though was a gentleman who was dancing on a float. He was dressed solely in white underwear and had a pack of abs like no one else. As he was dancing on the float, he noticed us and jokingly yelled, “What are you sorry for? It’s pride!” I pointed to our signs and watched him read them. Then it clicked.
Then he got it.
He stopped dancing. He looked at all of us standing there. A look of utter seriousness came across his face. And as the float passed us he jumped off of it and ran towards us. In all his sweaty beautiful abs of steal, he hugged me and whispered, “thank you.”
Here’s the whole post. I’m almost afraid to dig into this story—the Marin foundation’s website is here—because I don’t want start clicking around only to discover that these guys came to pride to deliver the same old love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin message, only with a smiley face this time instead of a “God Hates Fags” sign. More info and “I’m sorry” t-shirts available at the “Love Is An Orientation” website.
If this catches on—if repentant Christian bigots start showing up at pride parades across the country and they don’t believe that being gay is a sin—these guys are gonna be the new PFLAG moms.
Thanks to Slog tipper Wayne.
UPDATE: It was too good to be true. It’s the same old love-the-sinner/hate-the-sin bullshit in a brand new bag. From God Hates Fags… to God Hugs Fags—but He’s still gonna send ’em to hell to be tormented by demons for all eternity unless they repent, blah blah blah. It’s progress, I guess, but I doubt that guy in the underpants realizes just what he’s wrapping his arms around. More at Bilerico.
I got about halfway down the comments, then got bored… But a beautiful post and a beautiful gesture. It seems like they’re basically saying “Yeah, Christianity says it’s sin and you’re going to hell, but that doesn’t mean that Christians should abuse you while you’re here on Earth, and I’m sorry that some Christians do take it upon themselves to judge and abuse.”
Which seems like a relatively fine perspective to me, since I don’t believe in hell anyway.
These guys look pretty gay
Andrew Marin is an emergent church propagandist who bashes the traditional Biblical Christians who do not accept HIS liberal agenda of spreading acceptance of homosexuality in churches. Many compromised, megachurch pastors are giving place to Marin and his false Biblical teachings. From participating with homosexual activists during the pornographic Chicago gay pride parade to attacking Christians for not tolerating his promotion of homosexuality in churches, Marin is a very wicked and evil individual.
I don’t know — if their message is that Christians should treat gays like (shocking!) people, with the same rights as anyone else, I don’t see that it’s necessarily horrible if they’re still buying the love the sinner, hate the sin line.
Obviously, it’s preferable if they just lose that mindset altogether and realize there is no sin involved. But if they’re going to be insisting that it’s sinful, as long as they’re *actually* showing love and acceptance regardless, that’s definitely a step forward.
Now, those idiots who claim they love the sinner but hate the sin (but sinner don’t deserve the same rights as everyone else) . . . now *those* idiots I have a problem with.
As I’ve said before, the only thing worse than a sore loser is a sore winner. You’ve won. These guys are beautiful, and you should acknowledge that. The tide is turning. How many people in that parade have suffered at the hands of their Christian families and communities? I’m guessing almost all of them. I cried a little at the story of the man in the underpants.
Well, Pastor Nathan’s enjoyment of the sweaty-stolen-abs-hug seems to rule out any accusations of homophobia…
Um, the only person in this post using the “love the sinner, hate the sin” line is Dan.
@4 Yeah! Who needs acceptance? Love thy neighbor? That’s some compromised, wicked, evil bullshit!
As a long-standing recovering (and thoroughly repentant) homophobe, I’m awfully proud to see this post!
I grew up stupid, life and experience taught me much, I’ve gotten better LONG ago.
I cheerfully put a LOT of time and effort into apologizing as an individual, even when I didn’t tell a soul…
THIS, however, made me cry like a baby…
I’m from Chicago too, and seeing this happen there makes me terribly proud of my hometown.
Genuinely moving and screamingly funny at the same time. I am awestruck.
They are completely sincere. I liked his response to the commenter struggling with the “hate the sin” question:
I also love this Christian man’s response:
@ 12: Thanks for sharing that second one… that’s been my line forever on Christian Evangelism. Your “Good News” isn’t “News”, kids! It’s 1500 years old, and anyone who hasn’t been under a rock in a cave on an asteroid orbiting Pluto with their fingers in their ears and their eyes closed in the intervening time KNOWS already.
Untill i know that i’m not thought of as a sinner deserving divine punishment there won’t be any “reconcilliation”. Great, you feel bad for being a dick to an entire population of people, but the only way you can START to make up for it is to stop seeing us as though something is defective, evil, a sin, or just not as good. If you can do that, we’ll talk. I don’t want apologies from someone that still does not see me as an equal, good human spirit.
I went to their website and they were very cagy about answering that question because it supposedly is too complex for a simple yes or no answer. They need to understand that LGBTQ’s are MANY times bitten, and almost infinently times shy. If you want reconciliation your going to need more than an apology, your going to have to admit you were wrong.
There are many churches, such as Unity, that are completely accepting of Gay Christians and equal good spiritual beings, so it’s possible. I just suspect this group doesn’t want to get to this particular root. Which is a shame.
I still think Christianity is really, really stupid, but I am one hundred percent sympathetic towards people who are actively striving not to be dicks. Good job, y’all.
@14
I agree that it is hard to take Christian “reconciliation” entirely seriously when Unity churches have been holding Rainbow Gatherings for decades (Unity is my parents’ church, and while I’m seriously atheistic, if someone has to be Christian I sure recommend Unity), but damn, this seems like a step in the right direction. I have little problem with persistent civil disagreements, even deep, divisive, irreconcilable ones, if we can all agree not to be dicks about it. (And so we’re clear, “not being a dick” involves not infringing on anyone’s civil rights.)
I feel the exact same way. Teary-eyed and skeptical.
I checked out their website and it raised some red flags. For one, their mission is to bridge the LGBT and “religious communities” as though the two have been mutually exclusive. I am an atheist queer, but I know plenty of religious queers who need no bridge. Marin should come out and specify that the bridge he is building is between LGBT and conservative religious communities. Those two might be mutually exclusive at the moment. The ultimate goal of the bridge is unclear. One reference states that they seek not to change the homosexual “first” as though this will follow once a relationship with the lord is established per Marin instruction. I would like this group properly vetted by a queer religious institution like MCC.
http://www.themarinfoundation.org/faqs.h…
It’s worth reading the FAQs. FWIW they’re not saying that the bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality, so don’t hold your breath on that one.
But from what I can work out they’re stating that by expecting something even as seemingly innocuous as a gay person acknowledging that (s)he somehow needs to be fixed, they (the church) are practising “conditional love”, wholly counter to their faith. They want to propagate a transfer in stance from “well, we’re all sinners after all” to “why are you asking me? Who someone fancies & what they do to them is entirely none of my business”.
It’s difficult to articulate the paradigm shift, but speaking as a former pentecostal, this is a BIG DEAL. In practical terms it’s a social engineering campaign. If it takes off in the way they intend (which, given the conservative tendencies of the mainstream, is a big ask – this isn’t the first/only christian group to take this stance), the ultimate result would be that the church comes to ignore the bible passages that state homosexuality is a sin in exactly the same way they ignore those passages speaking against divorce, working on a sunday, and wearing hats in church. Hopefully they’d also lay off policing young unmarried couples quite so earnestly.
@18: Also, for both individuals and the church, it’s a process. I slowly moved from crazy fundie, to “hate-the-sin-love-the-sinner”, to “well, we’re all sinners”, to “why are you asking me” and finally arrived at, “Any God that condemns love of any sort isn’t a God I could follow. There’s too little love in the world, after all.” If my GLBT friends hadn’t been patient and gracious with my transition, I don’t think I would have arrived at this point right now. I’m so grateful that they took the long view on our friendships.
On the other hand, I would join Marin if the white underwear guy would give me a hug too.
I think apologizing IS admitting you’re wrong. The need to make an apology starts in the recognition that you are wrong, and the apology is sharing that recognition.
And if you can think that I’m sinning and going to hell for it, and hate my sin as the motive for me going to Hell, and pray to your god to have mercy on me because you really would rather I *not* go to Hell, if you can do all that, as well as love me and recognize me as your brother or sister, and respect and uphold my rights as your brother or sister, well, than I can certainly love you and recognize you too, in spite of the fact that I am firmly convinced that you’re living in a really well-organized and pervasive delusion.
@21 I am so full of love for that entire second paragraph.
@19 Agreed. I was going to slot in a bit about how I imagine part of their campaign is bound to be based on how utterly idiotic it is to condemn a person for loving someone, but it got cut for (relative) brevity.
Props to these guys. But this will never catch on; this is not the nature of religion.
There’s some “hopey, changey” stuff right there.
Hey, Fnarf…
I realize we’re winning. And I was genuinely touched—that’s how I opened the post. But I think it makes a difference if this “So sorry” stuff is a stratagem. It’ll queer it for me, for sure.
To err is human, to forgive divine.
These Christians understand that, and instead of pushing “Jeesuz” down other people’s throats, they are inviting them to become Divine, by forgiving. And they can’t do that w/o asking for forgiveness first.
You don’t become closer to God by judging. Quite the opposite. You do it through forgiveness.
(and for you atheists: remember that “closer to God” is just a euphemism for the warmest best feelings in the world)
Whatever may be said for this, I don’t think it’s the folks at Pride Parades that these Christians need to be talking to. It’s the _other_ Christians out there, the hate-filled ones that never seem to get challenged on their own turf, that they need to bring their message to.
“and for you atheists: remember that “closer to God” is just a euphemism for the warmest best feelings in the world”
We atheists, and pantheists, and pagans get that feeling all the time, sitting outside on a beautiful sunny day, sharing with friends and family.
“I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.”
–Frank Lloyd Wright
Sorry if I’m not wildly dancing with tears streaming from my eyes over this. Sure, it’s a nice gesture, but it’s nothing but words. I’d liken it to the Vatican’s apology in 1998 over the church’s inaction during the holocaust. Pretty words, but they mean nothing to the 6 million Jews who were murdered.
When I see Christians rallying in support of overturning DOMA and DADT, supporting ENDA, and truly embracing the LGBTQ community as equals with equal rights under the law, perhaps I’ll do a little jig then. Not until.
Very sweet and brave.
All questions of this group’s motivation aside, that picture is moving.
I’m really glad to read this. I went to Pride in Seattle, and when I was waling into the center, there was a man telling a girl she was going to hell. Then he told another girl that God hates her. And all of the people in the area were young– teens and early 20’s. I told him. “no, God loves all of these beautiful children.” I hope none of them believed him. I really hate having someone tell teenagers that.
Of course, there are have been tons of Christians that have been on our side for literally decades, even MARCHING in the parades.
If I recall correctly, this whole “public apology” schtick originated with Don Miller, who began doing apology booths at Reed College during Renn Faire, of all places. Miller seems like a decent, sincere guy with a genuine interest in social justice, though he’s friendly with local psychopath Mark Driscoll, and kind of absentmindedly sexist and theologically sorta conservative.
Christianity is a rapidly shifting terrain right now, but pay attention to the folks that have been our allies the whole time: the liberal protestant mainliners, the liberation theology catholics, etc.
The level that we accept these Christians’ apology is the level that we think Christianity is a message to be reckoned with.
Christianity is inaccurate in many ways, and we all know this through so many biblical examples: the endorsement of slavery, the prohibition of shellfish, the bipolar conflict between the humanistic words of Jesus Christ and the relentless wrath of God and finally, of course, the declaration that the expression of intimacy and love between two adult men is an abomination.
Regardless of the adversarial relationship between these two Titans, Christians and our LGBT subculture, is this worth fawning over when their very message is conflicted and primitive in the first place?
@33 Kevin, that is so true, and I’m sure they’re as pleased as anyone about this, while not failing to note that, as usual, converts get all the attention.
My slightly cynical reaction: If some Christians still condemn homosexuality, but no more so than they condemn heteros who have sex outside of marriage, masturbate, or get a divorce, I suppose you can consider that progress.
My fluffy clouds and fuzzy bunnies reaction: A little bit of acceptance has the potential lead to a whole lot more. The contempt that some fundies have for LGBTQs is poisonous and dehumanizing. That a few seem to be overcoming it and reaching out seems like a good sign. (And if they’re passing their new attitudes on to their kids, that’s an even better sign.) I hope it takes.
two things to point out
1) As others have mentioned, this is not the UCC, Unity, or any other actually-accepting Christian church talking. The Marin Foundation, as far as I can tell, takes the newly popular Phillip Yancey/Brian McLaren position (we accept that most of our congregants are bigots, are fine for them to preach bigotry and promote it, and just wish they’d advertise it less so we could more easily get young,urban straights into our pews) or the Rob Bell/ Shane Claybourne position (Probably not homophobes, but too cowardly to say anything that might loose them bigoted congregants)
2) The idea of public repentance (or “reverse confession”)
isn’t new, and was widely popularized by Donald Miller in Blue Like Jazz and his other fundie bestsellers. Miller is very clear on why fundies would use this tactic – it gives them access to sinners who won’t otherwise listen to them – and is also very clear that it’s a conversion tactic. A good chunk of Miller’s writing is devoted to how successful this tactic was in winning converts to right-wing fundie churches at Reed college, for example.
Don’t kid yourselves – the Yanceys, Bells, Millers, and Marin Foundations of the world don’t accept that all human beings are human beings. f you want real repentance for Christian hate, take your killer abs to the UCC, Unity, or a similar truly-tolerant church.
@27 I agree with you that Christians need to be challenged on our own turf with places we are homophobic and hetero-normative. There are some of us who are doing that; I am figuring out how to do this in the Christian group I lead. May God help us Christians to repent and be changed so that we better live out God’s truth and love.
And to be clear about my motivation (since motives are important as noted in 21, 25, 34), it’s threefold. First, when queer people are hurt by Christian people, and for the sake of queer people, this damage needs to stop. Second, when some Christians are hateful, that’s sin (destructive behavior that God forbids because it causes hurt in various forms), and for the sake of Christians, this sin needs to stop. Third, when some Christians are hateful, that defames Jesus’ character, since Christians are supposed to reflect Jesus, and instead we’re *not* being like him. This is a barrier for people being able to get a good look at Jesus to see if he’s really worth the hype.
I agree with the Christians wearing the shirts. I’m sorry for ways I’ve been homophobic and supported hetero-normativity. I ask forgiveness. I am committed to working within my Christian community to change things to better reflect Jesus’ love and truth for all people.
PS to 39. I waffled on whether or not to post this because I didn’t want to give offense. If I have offended you, would you please let me know so that I can learn from my mistakes? Thanks.
37 pretty much got it right. This is cute, wonderful feeling, and decidedly a step in the right direction, but just declaring homosexuality “not a really bad sin, just as sinful as all the other sins we ignore” isn’t going to be enough in the long run. Eventually we’re going to have to reach “not a sin” if there’s ever going to be true compatible and understanding between Christians and GLBT people.
That being said, it’s not in religion’s nature to change easily or quickly. As a pretty firm atheist myself, I’d rather just live in a secular world and be done with it, but given the tenacity of the religious meme, I think we should celebrate any progress made in their circles.
after looking on their website, I can pretty solidly say they are not coming from a “love the sinner, hate the sin” position. they aim to bring better understanding of LGBT issues and community to religious communities, and to help LGBT folk find their way to Christianity, acknowledging the troublesome past behind those interactions. While I personally am not a fan of religious recruitment, given their ideological stance, I find both these goals to be very noble, and gladly laud their efforts.
@38 let’s be precise though: Don Miller’s books are kind of repugnant but they’re not “fundie”. They’re theologically conservative/politically moderate/bluedog evangelical in their perspective. That’s not satisfying but it does indicate the landscape of xian belief and practice is diverse and complicated. And if you talk about McLaren, Bell, Claiborne, etc you gotta include folks like Stanley Hauerwas (seek out his essay “Why Homosexuals (as a group) are morally superior to Christians (as a group)”, its a pretty bold gesture for a straight male xian theologian.)
I grew up in the Evangelical/Fundamentalist community, and coming from that background, I really have to say that you can’t underestimate just how big of a deal this kind of thing is. A lot of people I know have barely managed to move even to the “love the sinner” stage, and those who have act like they think they deserve a pat on the back for being so open minded as to treat gay people as human beings. The idea of apologizing for acting like jackasses and treating people horribly hasn’t even entered most of their minds.
I suspect that the reason this group is being as cagey as they are on the sin question is because their message is as much to conservative evangelicals as it is to the gay community, and the second that conservative evangelicals hear that you think it’s not a sin, they’re going to clam up and stop listening to your message completely because you’re just one of those liberal apostates in their minds. As much as I prefer the direct approach, the nature of the conservative evangelical community is such that they don’t handle direct criticism and disagreement well (it feeds into their irrational persecution complex), and modeling the idea that Jesus would be the one hugging the guy in his underpants at a pride parade is the kind of indirect message that will start people thinking about their own actions and beliefs and that will, in time, bring about real change.
relevance to seattle; i missed it.
@45 Good point. It’s a lot easier to get behind a moderate position if it’s the only rhetorical point that could possibly reach evangelical ears. If it has to start with moderating a bad position before slowly coming to a good one, than this is the way to go.
Dont Matter what you believe it is written that Sodomy is a sin and a abomination before God
@48 Along with shellfish and mixed fabrics. In the same chapter actually. Be very careful with your sweaters.
Everyone, gay or straight, is deserving of Hell because we ALL are sinners. The only reason anyone will go to Hell is if they do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ, who was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and died on a cross of all of us — paying the ultimate price that we may live with Him eternally.
I, too, apologized to our former lesbian neighbors (whom we love) for how they have been treated by many “Christians” and the church as a whole — clearly those individuals and churches haven’t spent enough time reading their Bible. It is a shame that those with the loudest mouths do such a poor job of representing Christ’s love and forgiveness…
@44 – Donald Miller – while he claims to have voted Democratic at times – is hardly a moderate on any of the issues mentioned here. He’s a member of Imago Dei in Portland and a big advocate of the “macho Christian” idea (feminism has demasculinised men, encouraged divorce, which leads to fatherless men needing to have their masculinity repared through the father God).
I do not deny that there are large and growing numbers of truly tolerant Christians out there – I’ve listed several in my previous post…but Miller is part of Imago Dei, not Marcus Borg’s church in Portland, and these protesters are drawing on his suggestions for conversion tactics to be aimed at sinners one wants to “fix,” not people one truly accepts.
Even the blog post (“Look a gay man hugged me!”) could come right out of Miller’s writing.
Made me think that maybe humanity might be improving.
Now if we can get the schmucks from BP, Goldman Sachs and all those other thieves to say “I’m Sorry” and start working toward making the world a better place for everybody, I might give us a chance.