On Lindy’s hilarious post this morning about overdrafts, a commenter told her that she is an irresponsible baby who does not know how to manage her money and that she should thank the bank for being gracious enough to take her money. And then commenter Ben responded with the most amazing comment I have seen in many weeks, which I am going to re-run here in its entirety (bolds are mine), because everyone who has a bank account at one of the big banks should read it:
Look, the banks intentionally do everything in their power to screw you out of money. That’s not hyperbole. They really do everything they can get away with to take your money without having to actually do anything.
They run debits before credits to make it harder to keep ahead of things. They run charges largest-to-smallest, to maximize the number of charges after you go into the negative. They do these things this way specifically to take your money. They make all the rules, and, in aggregate, they’ve been playing the game about a hundred thousand times as long as you have. Their only motivation is to take as much money from you as possible, as efficiently as possible, hopefully while blaming you for it.
Now, before you go all read-the-fine-print douchenozzle on me: YES. They are well within their legal rights to do whatever they can to try to screw everyone else out of all of their money without actually doing any work. Similarly, Lindy is well within her legal rights to say that they are fucking inhuman shitpiles for doing so.
And of course, you are well within your legal rights to say that she should just have a computer brain that can instantly cross-reference every event that occurs in her life with every word that has ever passed in front of her eyes, all while running a perfect tally of all her financial assets and obligations, updated in real-time, allowing for any sort of emergency situation with some kind of percentage safety margin as determined by an elaborate collection of actuarial data.
And I am perfectly within my legal rights to recurse down to this level, and call you a fucking asshole. You fucking asshole.
Thank you, Ben. You are awesome.
And I’d just like to say to everyone: Join a credit union. Seriously. I can’t imagine the kind of broke-ass hell I’d be living in right now if Glenn Beck (allegedly) stole my old U.S. Bank debit card number instead of my credit union-linked credit card. My credit union made the whole awful situation relatively painless, and they provided friendly service the whole time. U.S. Bank would have milked my (possibly Glenn Beck-related) misfortune for every red cent.
I accidentally deposited a post-dated check for $100. It was all the money I had in my account. Not only did Seattle Metro refund the $25 returned check fee, they also reversed 2 overdraft fees. I love my credit union!!
I just switched to becu! It is awesome! And they don’t try to get out of the overdraft legislation with “chase overdraft protection,” which they call me about monthly!
the Twilight is offering free dinner for anyone who brings proof that they closed a chase account and opened an account with a credit union.
The big banks have developed sophisticated “fee harvesting” software to maximize the amount of fees and cash advance interest they can charge.
https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=%2…
Exactly, @54. Even if you do everything perfectly correctly, that software is always on the lookout for even the slightest erring on your part; even when you don’t know (because the bank doesn’t tell you until after the fact) that what you’re doing will trigger a fee.
Some people simply don’t have the luxury of using CU’s (which I also highly recommend whenever possible), simply because they either don’t exist where they live, or if they do, they don’t have anywhere near the number of branches, and it’s really kind of a pain in the ass to have to drive 10 miles to the nearest one.
We’re lucky that way here, so obviously, we have more choice in the matter. But, it should be kept in mind not everyone everywhere has the same degree of choice in the matter we do when it comes to banking.
Much of this could simply be solved by amending the UCC article 4 and federal regs. to require the banks to process transactions either chronologically, or in the order that most benefits their clients, rather than the order that most benefits rent-seeking fees as is allowed currently.
I am. Ever notice how every single time the bank makes a “mistake,” it’s in their favor? For example, they never pay you too much in interest, or charge you too little for an overdraft. No, somehow their “accidents” always seem to work out to their benefit.
@57: No, I mean you’re not blaming the banks for mistakes you made. You’ll blame them for mistakes they make, naturally.
My point was that people aren’t blaming the banks for mistakes that people make. They blame the banks for making those mistakes as hard to avoid as possible.
I bank with 5/3 in the Midwest; I don’t know if you guys have 5/3 out there, but I didn’t see a single one past Chicago when I traveled west. They’re a major bank, but I’ve never had a change worthy issue with them. I know a lot of people who have though. I’m still contemplating a return to the local credit union because they were amazing when I had them (and they have free checks and a Visa card, not Mastercard). 5/3 has a $300 per day card limit on my account, which is my major irritant.
Hi all,
I work at a bank and I’m an avid Stranger reader. This thread makes me sad.
Retail banks make their money by lending out your deposits. They pay you a little of the interest they make and then keep the rest. This business model was quite stable until lending regulations got loosened and well, you know the rest. Retail banks, as opposed to investment banks you read so much about, are not doing so well. If you don’t have any money to put in deposit, you’re really just a burden. First there’s the administrative cost of keeping track of every dollar or lack there of, second, because of the Patriot Act, banks literally have to check to make sure you’re not a terrorist or a money launderer every single time they have an interaction with you. All this paperwork cost time and money.
Yes, since they are desperate, they really bring the pain every time you have an overdraft. The new financial regulations might cure what ails you in this department.
Lindy, sorry about your bad bank experience. Might I suggest that if you seriously have less than $500, just leave it in a box in your apartment, then you don’t have to pay anyone anything. But you might want to get that crazy lock of yours fixed first. Or you can try a credit union as many have suggested or an internet bank, which pay better interest and have a minimum balance of $1 usually. I have an internet bank account and have received money for doing nothing.
To Ben, you need some anger management classes.
Apparently you guys need better paying jobs, 99% of Sloggers must have les than $1k in their accounts. No wonder it’s such low end advertising here.
I’ve never paid a penny in interest or an overdraft fee in 25 yrs. I do get 4 free flights a year though so as long as you fuckups can’t keep a bank balance, I’ll keep enjoying my free flights.
“I accidentally deposited a post-dated check for $100. It was all the money I had in my account. “
LMAO…… seriously SLoggers, get real jobs. Stop embarrassing your parents who lavished a white, middle class lifestyle and college education on you.
Why do I need anger management classes? Because I wrote some swears?
But that’s how I manage my anger.
@46 That’s a good idea–really it is–although I remember those not-so-distant days (like six months ago) when I didn’t have any more money in my savings account than my checking account. Both were hovering somewhere between 50 and -300.
I get the consternation about banks doing everything in their power to screw people out of money, I really do. But the big banks do have some serious benefits. Chase has stood up for me on 3 occasions when creditors and utility companies accused me of not paying my bill or paying it late, through their guaranteed on time online payment program. As an individual consumer, BoA or Pepco wouldn’t listen to me for a hoot. But, doing battle with Chase, well, things tend to get resolved. Also, when I was stuck in rural Vietnam with a company credit card that, unbeknownst to me, had a ridiculously low limit for the number of daily cash ATM withdrawals (and since you can only withdraw about USD 100 from an ATM in Vietnam at a time)…Chase was able to immediately increase the limits on my personal account so that I could pay my expenses. In short, big banks also have the power to make our lives a lot easier.
Solutions range from using a credit union for everyday banking and a big bank for travel and paying other evil empires, to using a credit card when you’re not 100% sure a deposit has posted (then, of course, paying off the credit card immediately upon posting of the deposit), to declining overdraft allowances, to living below your means. Sure, you can never overdraft and still fall victim to an overzealous computer looking for some funds, so you’ll probably end up making some calls about a bogus fee at some point in your life, but the other posters who say that banks can’t take your money if you don’t give it to them are correct. I know someone in credit counseling and the first thing the counseling company told them to do was to start balancing their checkbook, like, the old fashioned way, with a pen and paper and a ledger (the people in counseling started to say they had a spreadsheet app on their smartphone, until they saw the look of “you have $30,000 in credit card debt and own a $200 cell phone which requires an extra $30/mo. in usage fees?” LOL).
Also, Chase will stop calling you about accepting “convenience overdrafts” if you write them a letter asking them not to contact you about the service ever, ever, ever again or you’ll take your business to some place that *doesn’t* have such a clearly burning desire to charge you $35 for a mathematical error.
I can’t stand banks, I can’t stand credit unions. Ultimately, they make their biggest profits from those that live on the margins. Unfortunately most of us are there. We need banks, we need credit unions. So many of funds are done electronically, it’s getting more and more of a headache.
To those that say, well of course I should I have been aware from the day I signed up for this account. Bank of America used to be Fleet bank which bought many many banks and consolidated banks in the northeast. During that time, when you had a small bank and were satisfied and had some great deals. They would have been acquired and thrown into a hodge podge electronic mess, where they would start to literally make up new banking agreements monthly. So you go to another bank, which would get acquired by fleet, and the process starts new. This was back in … 1998-2002? During the next 6 years, I was with a credit union, and I still like it … I guess. But they really do make up new rules and fees as they go? We don’t sign anything, we don’t agree to anything. But short of pulling my money out and keeping it in a mattress under the fridge, I can’t think of anything better to do? or find a better means to move my money (or lack thereof) around.
Seriously, every other month they come up with new and more awesome ways to nickel and dime your accounts. There is no money to be made anymore in investing. Hell, I can think of only 2 maybe 3 people I know of who have even gotten loans these days. I can’t even remember the last time I knew someone who bought a car … maybe my dad, 2-3 years ago, before he got laid off.
I just want to go back to the days when banks made their dime by contributing (more) positively to our world as opposed to nickel and diming us.
I just left my favorite bank for stupid Chase, becasue I have to.
I used to bank with Park Avenue Bank in NYC (RIP) The CEO stole a bunch of TARP money and now the bank failed and was absorbed by Vally National Bank.
Park Avenue had no ATM FEES and they REIMBURSED you of any ATM fees an ATM would charge. They didnt have overdrafts, they would just lend you the money and when you brought your account back up, charge you the interest on the loan. They didn’t have 24 hr support, they had 9-5, maybe 50 total people that could help, basically you get an employee who actually knows you and the best perk, THEY PROCESS DIRECT DEPOSIT 2 DAYS EARLY BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE CHECK IS “GOOD”.
Valley by contrast has pay checking, ATM fees, fees when you use your card as a credit card, late deposits, NO WITHDRAWAL SLIPS (YOU HAVE TO WRITE A CHECK!?!)
@66 – Credit unions are non-profit. Any profits they make go back to their members in the form of interest on savings and checking accounts, etc.