An exchange I had with Slog commenter “I Got Nuthin'” this morning (edited for space):
I boarded the 271 to Bellevue at the UW. A gentleman (25 – 30 years old) was already on the bus, sitting about half way back on the driver’s side. The bus was maybe at 25% of capacity with people spread out as one would typically find on any bus in the city.
As soon as I got seated, the aforementioned gentleman immediately caught my attention because of an incessant and deep hacking cough. I estimate that he coughed—2 or 3 coughs at a time—every 30 seconds for the duration of the half hour trip that we shared. Of course, this being Seattle, everybody just sat and endured it. No eye contact, no suggesting that maybe he shouldn’t be out in public, no reaction from the bus driver. At one point I did spend several seconds studying the cougher and I have to say that he looked like death. His cheeks and forehead were all rosy. He was clearly congested and appeared to be in a generally miserable condition physically.
Which leads me to my questions:
1. Would it have been appropriate for someone to suggest to this person that maybe in light of the “swine” flu pandemic and associated fears, that he shouldn’t be out in public, well alone on the bus?
2. What role does the bus driver have in protecting his riders?
3. Has Metro published any guidelines regarding situations like this?
And my response:
As far as I know, Metro doesn’t have any specific guidelines about people riding the buses while sick. When I talked to Metro GM Kevin Desmond last week, he said their basic policy was to advise people not to ride the buses while sick, to cover their coughs, and to be mindful of other passengers. Obviously, this guy wasn’t doing that, and I’m not sure what their advice would be in that situation—I have a call in to their PR person to find out if there’s any kind of actual policy.
In general, though, I think passengers would be in the right asking the coughing guy, politely, if he was OK and whether he should be out and about. Given that Metro’s a public accommodation, and coughing doesn’t violate the agency’s code of conduct, I don’t think the driver would be able to make him leave. But I’ll let you (and Slog) know what I find out.
I haven’t heard back from Metro yet, but I did take a closer look at the code of conduct, and it’s pretty clear that you would have been in the right at least saying something to the driver or the passenger. From there, it would be the driver’s call whether to ask the passenger to leave or continue to ignore him. Specifically, the code of conduct prohibits causing “safety problems,” and advises passengers to call 9-1-1 if they see a medical emergency. (Hilariously, the code of conduct also prohibits both “spitting” AND “expectorating.”) The bottom line is, you shouldn’t have to put up with a gross hacking cougher on the bus—particularly during a possible epidemic—but there’s only so much you can do. The rest depends on the driver and the consideration of the cougher.
Miss Manners says to always carry a spare handkerchief and offer it to the afflicted person.
1)Metro can barely afford to keep the buses running, let alone provide hand cremes and masks.
2)ECB LIKES to provoke ire because it makes her feel important…also, she has a martyr complex…also, she can just chalk it up to misogyny, the random fits all for woman justly criticized for behaving badly…
OK, OK, I have to admit you might be right, RonK @51. I suppose the pattern does fit.
I shall now proceed to stick myself into a hermetically sealed tube and not emerge until the reveloution is over and the pig people have been defeated. Though, with our current economic system, I may die in there.
Make sure you have some air holes, Sheryl. Although normal filtration won’t stop virii … so you’d have to go to positive air supply methods.
Wow, I’m amazed at the direction of the reaction here. This person WAS NOT COVERING THEIR COUGH. If you expect public transit to be a serious option for anyone but those who cannot afford ANYTHING else, a big step would be to have it not be a personal hazard. That means ejecting people who pose a health hazard to others through their own choices and actions.
If this person is poor and can’t take a sick day or get health care, what about all the other people who can’t take sick days or afford health care he’s just exposed to his illness? Yes, it sucks to be sick in the US if you’re poor, but that’s even MORE reason not to go spreading it around and more reason that the riders of public transit should be able to expect reasonable standards of behavior around personal hygiene and sanitation will be enforced.
@ 56, it doesn’t say anywhere in “I Got Nuthin”s comment that the sick man wasn’t covering his cough. ECB says he “obviously” was, but it’s not obvious to me.
@56: At least two people now have pointed out that nowhere in the original story from “I Got Nuthin” does it say the person was not covering their cough. In fact, IGN’s primary complaint seems to be that he was coughing really loud and really often; that’s it.
Jeezus.
@56: Again, the fact that someone is coughing does not make them magically more contagious than if they were not coughing. This is one of those cases where humans are remarkably bad at assessing risks in the modern world. Just because we have a built-in, instinctual aversion to a certain kind of stimulus does not mean that our immediate response it rational.
There are lots of hacking coughers who are not contagious. Many viruses are most contagious prior to expressing symptoms. Ergo, a coughing stranger does automatically equate with a high or even increased risk of illness for you.
The minute we start kicking people off the bus because they look like they’ve got something is the minute we’ve given in to panic and mob rule. Those defending this thinking should be kicked in the shin immediately.
@56: Again, the fact that someone is coughing does not make them magically more contagious than if they were not coughing. This is one of those cases where humans are remarkably bad at assessing risks in the modern world. Just because we have a built-in, instinctual aversion to a certain kind of stimulus does not mean that our immediate response is rational.
There are lots of hacking coughers who are not contagious. Many viruses are most contagious prior to expressing symptoms. Ergo, a coughing stranger does automatically equate with a high or even increased risk of illness for you.
The minute we start kicking people off the bus because they look like they’ve got something is the minute we’ve given in to panic and mob rule. Those defending this thinking should be kicked in the shin immediately.
Or to put it yet another way…
“Does Metro Have An Obligation to Keep Asthmatics Off Buses?”
(NO, I AM NOT CONTAGIOUS. NO, I DO NOT NEED A FUCKING COUGH DROP.)
Good thing I renewed my UW Single-Occupancy-Vehicle parking pass this week.
Did your rates double too, bsktcase?
People don’t have sick time and have to go to work regardless of their condition if they’re going to pay the rent next month. I bet if this guy could have stayed home, he would have.
Really, since the original post was only about being concerned, and no one was in danger of or even came anywhere close to being kicked off the bus for being sick, this whole rightous thing I’m hearing in this thread of, ‘well, do you want to cause a panic? How dare you even broach such a subject’—is itself an over reaction—to the fear of over reacting.