Presumably in response to this (though this must be an old anger, considering Josh Feit hasn’t worked at The Stranger since last spring), a reader writes:
I’m really sick of Erica Barnett, Josh Feit and the whole pack of pro-density, eco-nazis at The Stranger. You all came here from somewhere else, and you all want this place to be some kind of “green” version of New York. Despite all your years of howling and hand-wringing, despite all your pro-transit rants and your bike lane bullshit, it’s NOT!
If you like big, overcrowded, noisy, expensive East Coast cities so much, why don’t you go fucking live there!! Stop trying to jam that shit down our throats!
Fuck the whole bunch of you.
Jef Jaisun
Green before you were born, beyatches!
In other news: I miss Josh Feit.
Yeah, me too. He didn’t steal shit.
some of us that were born here are pro-density and pro-transit. 😀
Um, well that’s nice… On a much more upbeat note- Christopher- I think you’re frikin’ sexy…
yeah, no doubt, have lived here or close by for 45 years and want to see some planned density…green too. need a new mayor for that though, and some city councilmembers with some vision
Dear Jeff,
Cities grow. If you don’t like living in a city that is increasingly big, overcrowded, noisy, and expensive, go fucking live elsewhere.
The Stranger can’t control growth — we can make it happen, or make it stop. The Stranger’s writers just want the growth that’s coming our way to be well-managed.
Did you know you can buy a house right now in detroit for under $1000? The city is small and getting smaller, not crowded at all, quiet (‘cept the gunfire), and cheap, cheap, cheap. Why don’t you go fucking live there?
Dan
I feel worst for Josh’s family. How old was he?
A “green version of New York City”? New York is already the greenest city in the nation. He really doesn’t get it.
@5 Hey here’s an idea! Why don’t you and all of your pro gay, pro density cohorts all collectively pack up and move to Detroit yourselves? Think about it! Ohh the opportunity for all of you! Cheap living, cheap housing, an increasingly vacant city just ripe for dense planning, living, working! Just think! YOU could be mayor of GAYVILLE!
I happen to STRONGLY AGREE with the original poster. Erica should take her fucking pathetic density pro bicyclist cabal and MOVE THE FUCK OUT!
WE don’t want her petty theft shoplifting fat a$$ in the city any longer!
Thanks for listening!
@6 Huh? He was alive and well as of 7:24 this morning.
http://publicola.net/
Jef Jaison has made a cottage industry of writing letters to the editors of the times and p.i. for years. His photography, music, and nimbyism pretty much suck ass.
Is stealing ‘Green’ ?
Yeah… I’m with @2. I like it here, partly because of the smarter, more conscientious people–and yes, I have lived places other than my native Seattle. Greenness and sustainability (and, by extension, density and bike lanes) are not optional to my city, which was ahead of the environmental consciousness curve long before I was born.
I really liked his note — New York City is green, but it accomplishes it through intense density, small unliveable apartments, and people being packed in like sardines. There’s this naivety to the density activists here who seem to think we can recreate a kinder gentler version of New York in a city with completely different geography, an entrenched car culture, and very few dependable, frequent forms of public transportation.
I don’t know if this is what the original poster meant and he probably could have made his point better, but it’s easy to talk about the beauty of density when you’ve never experienced anything except wide open spaces and a guilty reliance on personal transport.
Density will mean a decrease in your quality of life — we can limit how much, but I will not be the same green-covered city we have now.
Why did Jef take the time to send a letter? Why didn’t simply post a comment to Slog under his usual nom de plume Mr. X?
Wait, is this the same Jef Jaisun who wrote “Friendly Neighborhood Narco Agent” about 30 years ago?
Sounds like somebody’s become his parents…
So did I miss something? Did ECB get busted for shoplifting? I can’t imagine that level of schadenfreude.
@16
You bet your ass she did.
@13 ftw
He makes a very very valid point. There are many of us who agree with this sentiment. I personally get tired of constantly listening to ECB rant about another minority agenda for bicycles and transit. I wish the Stranger would make their tiny group of writers each find 3 new topics to focus on a regular basis.
It does get extremely old seeing the same shit/different day stories that they are allowed to constantly push.
The Stranger is fast becoming irrelevent with the lack of original ideas and pushing the same three agendas of
1. more bicycle rights/bicycle lanes/bicycle travel
2. increased density/building higher/zero architecture
3. pro transit / anti cars
4. pro gay rights to the exclusivity of all others
uh, if the majority of Seattle citizens feel the same way as fucktwit #8 then why do they keep voting YES for pro-transist/pro-density measures at election time?
@16 here is the info:
http://blog.capitolhillseattle.com/2009/…
I am saddened that the slog is not bringing this up. Transparency and all that. Her hearing is supposed to be today. Perhaps we will hear something soon.
@16 YES ECB did shoplift.
Funny how it isn’t a story isn’t it? You would think that she would somehow own up to it?
Why has there been no SLOG post about it?
Is she not remorseful?
Does she think she is better than everyone else?
You bet your sweet ass she does.
@13 and @18
You guys are missing the point. Cities grow. Your quality of life is going to drop, one way or the other. Planning “Density” is all about providing the best quality of life for the given hordes.
jigae @13, i live in new york city and i don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. i have a great quality of life, roughly the same if not better than when i lived in seattle. sure, i had more space and parquet floors in seattle, but here i have rich cultural diversity and boundless vibrant energy. not a bad trade really. the fact that you seem to think of new york as some sort of perpetual law & order episode indicates that you ought to watch less tv and maybe actually travel more. for me, like most decent people, my neighbors are people i try to get to know and accept. the density of this city is a marvelous part of my every day.
the ultimate point to all of this is that density is coming, you can’t avoid it, but you can manage it so it benefits your city. this is what the stranger is advocating.
If these people did in fact speak for a majority they’d have nothing to panic about.
Political strategy advice of the day (free of charge): Trying to build a winning coalition by haranguing your opponents to move away? Not promising.
If there was anger against that CRAPPY Barnett story on John Fox, that anger would have been about her CRAPPY journalism.
But there is an underlying truth about what ‘Jef’ says.
While many of us here (new and old-timers alike) want density and transit, the Stranger’s unabashed rah-rah for ANY OLD DENSITY, CRAPPY BUILDINGS, and things like HB1490’s Transit ADJACENT development shows an absolute LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of the issues, KNEE JERK pile-on, and (as I mentioned before) CRAPPY journalism.
Other than that, everything’s A-OK.
@22: But there’s a difference between “guided growth” and pushing “density” as an end in itself. People seem obsessed with the idea of it without understanding the reality that accompanies it.
@23: I lived in New York for many years and now I live here because I wanted more open spaces. I miss the energy and cultural diversity every day. It’s a trade off. Trying to increase Seattle’s density would drive many people away from here — You’d have added the inconveniences of New York without adding all the things that make it wonderful and make me miss it every day.
And I’ve never watched a full episode of Law and Order.
@19 Ohh Michael
Seriously bro go crawl back in a box.
Yes the majority of Seattleites feel that wasy. Just because your minority gets out and votes in transit isn’t a sign that they believe in your liberal agenda.
Rather, they simply are tired of how your eco terrorist cabal of friends has constantly kept sensible road projects from expanding the areas vehicle capacity. It is no secret that a vocal minority have managed to stifle progress adding extra lanes throughout the city, and have effectively clogged the citizens into frustration.
That has also effectively limited the business investment, as no employer wants to trap his employees in that downtown mess if they can help it. You only need to look at how outlying communities have sprung up in Lynnwood/Everett, Bellevue, Federal Way, etc to see that industry is relocating places where normal levels of transportation exist. Those communities will continue to grow at a faster clip than Seattle, due to their availability of roads.
Consider yourselves lucky that certain industries continue to put up with dealing with the traffic snarl that is Seattle. One can only hope that the $$$, businesses, and industry in this city begins to wake up to the new reality of better conditions in other closeby locations, and relocates. This will leave plenty of room for your pro density nirvana to become a reality, albeit without the big $$$ fancy corporations providing a form of welfare to fund your pipe dreams.
In the mean time, the rest of us will continue moving out of the downtown mess, thereby turning it into the cheap, dense, downtown slum you so seem to cherish.
Plus it fits in with your socioeconomic class right Michael?
There’s a lot more to urban quality of life than just how big (or small) your dwelling is. I live in a small apartment that folks like Jigae @13 would probably call “unlivable”. I’m also right next to a major transit hub, and any amenity I could think of (hospital, retail, outdoor recreation, etc.) is within short walking distance. “Quality of life” is about more than how many people live in your neighborhood or the square footage of your home.
I think the strangest part of ECB shoplifting and being a certified deadbeat (http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=hom…) is how aggressivly she goes after Monica Guzman for using question marks. Really? She has some serious issues….and somehow expects us to take her civically holier-than-thou seriously.
New York City can’t really even be considered a “good” or “bad” model of dense living. Sure, if you’re rich and live in Manhattan (minus Harlem) or the Western edge of Brooklyn, then sure, NYC is a great place to live! But if you live in one of the many shitholes in Queens, the Bronx, or Staten Island (as well as huge swaths of Brooklyn… anyone want to move to Bed-Stuy?) then dense urban life sucks.
@23: Let me make my point in a different way — people TOLERATE New York’s density and the living situations that go with it because they are rewarded by unparalleled career opportunity, world-class dining and access to near-infinite cultural events. Some of that is made my possible by density, but much of it is because of New York’s reputation as a world-class city, the draw it has for actors and artists (if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere), and the extreme amount of capital flowing through the city.
If you had New York level density in Seattle, people would leave to Portland or Olympia or a million other places, because you would have lost the very thing that makes it special. Increasing public transit and affordable apartment living are good things, but “density” is only good for the benefits it brings.
@25 Do you have an ideal solution? Or are you like so many I’ve read on the SLOG and elsewhere- full of shit, full of critique and offering nothing except much of the same (which everyone has a problem with as well). I’d take critical folks seriously if they had anything else to bring to the table. But what are you going to do? It’s Seattle, if it’s breathing, it’s bitching, if nothing else.
Somebody has a court case today, but you won’t read about in the Stranger.
Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
@32 a solution to what? it sounds like he has provided one….STOP CRAPPY JOURNALISM. Did you not read that?
@28: I don’t think I’ve ever lived somewhere with more than 1,000 sq. feet. Currently at 700 with two people. I lived in Bushwick with 4 people in a ~400 sq. foot apartment right before I lived New York. That wasn’t an uncommon living situation. That is unsustainable for any long period of time.
You’re sort of making my point for me — Seattle’s definitions of density come from a place where a huge apartment (by NYC standards) can be considered small.
I know I’m making assumptions here, but so are you. Based on your description of your living situation, I would guess we’re probably basically neighbors.
OOPS, meant, “right before I left New York.”
@13 vs @ 23 –
winner – @23.
@37: why don’t you just contribute a totally useless “ftw” as well?
@26 for the win
Density is not an end all solution to the problems we are likely to face in the near future.
Instead of focusing density in a very small area of downtown, cap hill etc, we should have a region wide initiative to make the 3 main roads in each suburb “more dense” first.
I guess what I’m trying to say, is that instead of a hub speading outward of density, to instead focus on widening the 3 main roads thru each suburb, (let’s say 148th in Bellevue/Redmond, or the entire length of Lake City Way, or 220th in Federal Way, or Rainier in South Seattle)
Let’s widen the road lanes 2 lanes in each direction, and then mandate that all future development along those corridors provide underground parking, and be built to 4 stories, and that the tiny shops underneath of condo’s model can only make up 25% of any block’s development.
In this fashion, you woud immediately spread out any development along long defined spread out stretches of cities, and bring in a model of development that is much more in line with what Vancouver started out as.
I think many folks (myself included) hate the idea of infill density that clogs a small core of a city, eliminating vehicle parking, and infuriating people who don’t want to lose their open greenspace, open skyline any further.
By spreading the density along big traffic corridors and combined with keeping 6 lane major corridors intact to accomodate those living several blocks inward from the density, we would go a long ways towards satisfying everyone.
Or so it seems to me…
Please answer the continuous questions about Erica Barnett and her shoplifting. She goes after anyone she wants to with a wanton disregard for the truth and it is printed day after day. Not addressing this story takes the Strangers credibility to a new low. Why not be honest about it. Your self serving reporter is a liar and a thief and should never be trusted by the public again.
See, this is why the PI dying ain’t so hot.
Now you’ll get the neocon loons who were posting on there, hating on Seattle in Seattle’s local newspaper, occupying bandwidth on SLOG.
Don’t want density and transit?
Then move.
But stop whining.
a MILLION AND A HALF people are coming here in the next 20 years. it’s going to get denser or it’s going to sprawl.
density is the better option for saving the things you love about the PNW. open space, vistas, clean air, clean water, FARMLAND. if you are so myopic you can’t see past your “add more lanes so i can get to boeing from finn hill faster” agenda then nothing will convince you of it.
This may not be the right forum for this (though this thread certainly needs it); but perhaps the slog should adopt a comment system similar to Slashdot? Community ranked/rated comments, nested threads etc. Would make rollicking conversations like this one easier to follow…
@34 Ohhhh, so the solution to our density problem is “quality journalism” which here means journalism more sympathetic to sprawl and doing nothing. I get it, Fox News rocks this ethos too, the solution to the problems in Iraq are in fact positive spin stories, that’s also the solution to the economic issues we’re currently confronted with, that and playing the victim and attacking other news outlets for not doing like wise. Just like you! Congrats dickhead you’ve got it all figured out.
@43 Sorry man I don’t believe it. No way.
Where are they all going to come from? That statistic is now old and outdated given the downturn in the economy and long(er) term contraction of the overall US economy.
Who would want to move here to get crammed into Western Washington like that?
And even if partially true, THAT is the very problem I have with our lack of insight and forethought into how current planning is progressing with our “leaders”. There is simply no way that this region given its foot dragging and resistance to adding highways lane miles, will be able to grow fast enough. YOU SIMPLY CAN’T have that influx of even half that many people, and sustain 1/10 the quality of life we now have.
Just. Can’t. Do. It.
Those folks will not consider Seattle as a factor in their lives. Seattle will be such a mess, that everyone will live/work outside of there, in Bellevue, Redmond, Issaquah, Lynwood, Renton, Federal Way, etc
Noone will want to travel thru the highway mess to get stuck on an island in Seattle. Yes Seattle is an island. If you add 500,000 vehicles to the region’s roads, the ensuing gridlock will make Seattle a travel destination to be visited maybe once a month at most. Rather, citizens will live in their own outlying cities, and never go near that shithole.
It’s already happening. Just look at the growth of those places above, and go look at the skyscrapers going up in Bellevue, Lynnwood, Federal Way to understand better.
Lack of available roads and traffic gridlock like the Mercer Mess is keeping Seattle from becoming the center of the regions’ growth.
Face the facts.
@46 I don’t get it, if you hate Seattle so much, why don’t you leave Seattle urban planning to those that want to live here? Those are the same people who advocate density and maybe alternative to increased highway miles in and around Seattle supplemented with alternative transit. It’s apparent you’ve got a boner for those awesome utopias popping up all over like Federal Way and Lynnwood, move to the suburbs and rant to like minded folks at the mall until gas peaks again and then sit at home bemoaning gas prices and watch TV.
@46, I don’t know about your commuting habits, but you are completely snowing yourself if you think driving in the centers of Issaquah, Redmond, and Bellevue is any better than in Seattle.
I can’t say much about Federal Way or Lynnwood as far as a regular commute goes, but holy sweet jeebus it sucks on Fridays when I try to visit my friends and family in Oly or Everett for the weekend.
not all of us that live out on the eastside have the attitude of # 46. i like seattle, i don’t go there often but it’s always nice when i do. i hope that the city can confront growth in a responsible manner. however, i feel that they have too often dropped the ball on such things as light rail, and now the costs are prohibitive. would have been nice to get in the game 30 years ago, eh?
fyi i live in issaquah. my house was built in 1972. my wife works in downtown seattle and i work in north bend so it was a good compromise.
@47 I’ll tell you why. It is quite simple actually.
Because the outcome of that (lack of) planning affects my life here in the ‘burbs. If you realized how cliche’ your musing were as to “how” I live, you would realize that your mockery has no actual validity to how I actually do live.
As someone who has lived in multiple big cities, and travelled to work in dozens others, I can tell you that Seattle is one giant mess. I’m simply amazed at the lack of road progress in this shithole. It bothers me, because now that I live here, I have to deal with the fucking mess on a regular basis, and I have come to learn that the fucking mess has to do with the eco liberal terrorists that go out of their way to push their utopian agendas that truly hold this city back. I enjoy being able to go downtown (in most any city but here) and easily travel to my restaurant, find adequate parking, and enjoy the ambiance of fine city dining. That type of experience is really quite difficult to find on any kind of regular basis in Seattle. Other similar sized large cities this is just not the case.
Alternate transit does not interest me in the least, unless it is very convenient and clean. Seattle has neither. You can dream your utopian transit pipe dreams all you want, but this region will simply never have the type of transit you envision or desire. Until such time as I can drive my car to an outlying suburb’s park and ride, climb onto a fast U train, experience normal clean sane citizens riding along with me, and get me within 3 blocks of my destination within 20 minutes, I will simply never ride transit.
It is that simple.
All of you pro transit people had better get real on how much of a possibility that scenario is. Until that scenario is acheived, transit is a pipe dream in King county. Period.
You can throw out cute catchphrases that mock my living in a suburb. You have no idea that I live within 15 minutes of work, making a very handsome salary, enjoy a wide and varied social life at my leisure, and generally have a great experience in the area I live. This same type of lifestyle is enjoyed by hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens in the county. High gas prices simply don’t affect me that much. My lifestyle has incorporated shopping, dining, socializing locally, therby minimizing any additional expenses I have living further out in the county.
In return I enjoy large amounts of green space, clean air, safe crime free neighborhoods, high quality schools paid for by my similarly affluent neighbors with me, and a lifestyle that is wholly reminiscent of the way I grew up.
It’s too bad you can’t see my forest from my trees friend.