It was cold, and it was 11:22 pm, and it was Sunday night, and the very nice lady told me that I could ride the light rail to Mount Baker if I liked, but that the very last train to downtown had embarked at 11:05.
11:05? Not even midnight? Huh, Sound Transit?
(By the way, Questionland—you guys rule!—I did in fact take the train to the airport at 5:19 am on Christmas Eve, and me and the other train-riders were some of the most relaxed people at the airport that morning, not having had to go through traffic at all. Genius.)
So I called Sound Transit spokeswoman Linda Robson, and here’s our exchange.
Linda: We have no plans to extend the service hours beyond what we already provide. For us, 2 factors—no budget to extend hours beyond the 20-Mon-Sat and 18-Sun, and we also use those 4-6 hours a day for vehicle maintenance and station and system cleaning and maintenance.
Very few systems run 24 hours a day. Even London, Paris, and Tokyo systems close around midnight or 1am. I believe each of those systems also have first-train/last-train times for their stations just as we do.
Me: quick question, though: why do the trains run to mount baker and stop there rather than coming into downtown? in other words, why are the hours longer to mount baker?
Linda: The last trains come from Westlake and SeaTac/Airport back to the O&M yard at the end of the day, which means Mt Baker and SODO are the last two stations to have a train pull in each night. We don’t have vehicle bases at the ends of the line, we have one in the middle, and that’s because Westlake and SeaTac/Airport are only the ends for now. Expansion is already underway.
Me: if expansion is underway, does that mean that downtown will eventually get longer hours of delivery? when i arrived at the train station on sunday night, i was told that the last train to downtown had already left (11:05), but it was 11:22 and people were routed to a train to mt. baker. what time does the last mt. baker train leave seatac?
Linda: No no, by “expansion” I mean construction to extend the length is already happening. U-Link work is already underway.
Last Sunday train from SeaTac/A to Mt Baker departs S/A at 11:47pm, and again, lots of train systems out there in the world, including London, Paris, and Tokyo systems all do it the same way.
Except there’s a big difference between 11:05 pm and midnight or 1 am. Heathrow to London train runs to midnight. De Gaulle to Paris runs to 1 am. Haneda to Tokyo runs to 11:52 (if I’m reading that schedule right).
If I had been in London, Paris, OR Tokyo Sunday night, I’d have caught the train.
And let’s look closer to home, shall we? What’s the matter with American models, anyway?
O’Hare to downtown Chicago: 24 hours. AirTrain at JFK: 24 hours. Logan to Boston: Until 12:30 am.
So I could have been in London, Paris, Tokyo, Chicago, New York, OR Boston, and I’d have been on the train.
Given that most air traffic happens before midnight, doesn’t it seem like a good idea to extend the hours just a little into downtown, Sound Transit?
Waiting to hear back from Robson.
More hours are great. I think the entire story here can be summed up with one word, budget. She said they did not have it in the budget and I imagine they just chose the time that traffic gets low enough nobody will throw too big a fit over it. I am all for late night service but their reason sounds pretty legit considering all cities that were compares are larger cities.
all public transit should take into account what time bars close and what times most jets land late at night & early in the morning! No wonder there is so much public transit resistance from the large majority of the population….
Here in Kartoffel-land the subways run all night on Friday and Saturday nights, and until 1 AM the other 5 nights. And the system is always well-used.
You can have good public transit, or why bother.
In the US, it’s why bother. Need more drunk-driving fatalities.
What a load of bullshit. I briefly (thank God) lived in Jersey City, and, while the PATH ran only once an hour late at night, it did at least run. 11 p.m. is laughably early for service to a fucking airport.
And what were the 174’s hours like? It seemed like that ran throughout the night. So Metro cuts that off and is slated to eliminate the 194, and this is what we get as a replacement. Fantastic.
Jen,
I, too am disappointed that it doesn’t run 24 hours. But, at least we finally have public transit to SeaTac Airport. Boy, does it look great.
Seattle is not a world-class city like Paris, London, Tokyo, Boston, Chicago, or New York. It’s a wonderful city and I love it here, but those other cities are in a completely different league. Walk around on a weekend anywhere downtown other than the waterfront or 1st Ave and it’s dead. We have very few 24 hour restaurants, almost no places to get pie and coffee at 3 am, and in most neighborhoods very limited options for coffee after about 9 pm.
Seattle just doesn’t have the kind of bustling life that a world-class city has. Nothing wrong with that, but you can’t expect world-class public transit.
The good news is that they’ll run late on New Years.
They should really run some basic service later than 11. Other than the downtown tunnels, which require security guards, they could pretty much get away with just paying a train driver and a supervisor. Maybe only serve one downtown stop late at night?
Last train from the airport here in Sydney, Australia is 12:23 am and starts again at 5 am. But our airport has a curfew to moderate noise, so no planes can land or take off between midnight and 6 am and only a few are allowed between 11 and midnight and 5 and 6 am.
If there are planes 24 hours a day there should be public transit 24 hours a day.
Here’s the question: are we running a transit system, or an amusement park attraction? People depend on transit, and people will only come to depend on transit if transit is dependable. You can’t expect city dwellers to really commit to the Link if it isn’t available when they need it, like say, when they’re stinking drunk coming home from the bars. I grew up in Chicago, and of course the train system has had decades longer to mature, but here’s a way to start the expansion. Instead of closing the line between midnight and 5, run a train every 1/2 hour. That’s only 10 drains in those 5 hours but it means that a person coming into the station will have, at max, 30 minutes to wait until the next train. A drastic difference that would make a statement about the seriousness with which we are treating our transit system. Certainly ST can figure out how to rotate out trains needing service/maintenance within those 10 short trips, and clean the stations while they’re open, dopes. If every 30 minutes is too often, go to every 45 minutes, or even every hour, but don’t close the puppy up tight. And why isn’t our tunnel open at night? Is downtown Seattle all that much more scary than, say, the North/ClybournSubway station? Don’t think so.
@7 — Seattle IS TOO world-class. is too! is too! is too!
(if you can understand world-class logic)
My god this service has only been open since December 16th and the state and county are facing some of the biggest budget shortfalls in history.
Give it time and I am sure hours will expand assuming ridership merits it. I took light rail home from the Airport Sunday the 20th at around 8p.m. and the car was nearly empty until we hit the tunnel.
Let’s just be happy we have this proto-transit system and give them time to become world class. I am sure in the first months the NY, Boston, Paris, London subways opened they were not running at their current levels.
get even closer to home: Portland Max, last train from Airport to City Center & BEAVERTON @ 11:58pm.
Vancouver Airport to Downtown Vancouver last SkyTrain @ 12:57am.
Yup, SoundTransit has its collective head in the sand.
oh, and BART leaves SFO as late as 11:45pm and OAK at midnight
Likewise, why don’t we have a ticketing system like San Francisco’s BART? Could that be that difficult to maintain and update? On where all passengers have to buy a ticket to a specific destination, and use it to get off?
With the ORCA card, couldn’t this be done easily?
@12 Yep, it looks like even New York’s subway wasn’t 24-hours when it opened in 1904. Hours were 6am-11:30pm. Wow, that sucker cost $35M. I bet they wished they hadn’t started that boondoggle.
Haneda serves only domestic flights (and some to China). You, Gaijin, you would arrive at Narita Int’l Airport (further from Tokyo). Though I too thought it would run later, looks like Narita’s last train runs at 10:41pm.
http://www.keisei.co.jp/keisei/tetudou/k…
Anyway, Seattle is not a world class city.
how many flights arrive at SEA after 10:30? Whenever I’ve arrived late, the airport is pretty deserted.
@10, the tunnel is open Monday through Saturday, 5:00 am to 1:00 am, and Sunday, 6:00 am to 12:00 midnight. So it’s open at night, to some degree…just doesn’t have service everywhere. Two different issues.
@11
Seattle also has a severe lack of homeless people offering to “help” you when you’re using a ticket vending machine.
Even Portland has that!
At least the whambulance runs 24/7.
this is bull.
embarass them publicly, compare them in a negative light to Vancouver BC and other cities, and they’ll change the operating hours eventually, especially since airplanes keep landing at Sea-Tac until midnight and there is no warning the line shuts down before then.
@1 for the sad sad sad third-class-city win.
Keshmeshi @5: your whining about the 194 going away is unwarranted in regard to hours of operation.
On a Sunday, the last 194 leaving for Seattle is 7:30 pm
Weekdays it’s 9:14 pm
I don’t mind the scheduling so much as I realize there are limited funds, etc.
I do mind, however, the terrible signage at seatac in terms of Link. The schedule information needs to be listed inside the terminal so it’s not a surprise to people who walk all the way to the station. The route to the station is also a little unclear. There are a few little Link signs, but for the most part it seemed that people were just following other people and hoping for the best. The ground should have a clear painted line that one can follow to get to the station. Etc.
@24,
I’m complaining about the 174 going away, dumbshit. And the 194 is faster than lightrail.
@26: “And the 194 is faster than lightrail.”
Eh, depends on a number of factors. You’re assuming the 194 and Link leave at the exact same time and that there are zero slowdowns on I-5.
Link is more frequent than the 194 though. And it doesn’t have to deal with I-5 traffic. So in certain scenarios Link will be faster than 194. (Note: I love the 194.)
@18 – It’s been a while since I worked at the airport but I remember arrivals and departures from Korea and Taiwan around 2am-ish.
They definately need at least an hourly train between the airport and downtown, even if it’s just the airport and one downtown station. It just makes sense in the middle of the night given weird flight patterns and bar hours.
thank goodness you brought this up. I plan on using the LInk pretty exclusively for my weekly travel to and from the airport when I head back next week and I wrongly assumed if I got into SEATAC by 1030pm it would not be a problem.
But with the slowness of the baggage handling there and my lack of desire to wrestle with TSA over my conditioner, thus necesitating a checked bag, there is no way I can take the train home.
Is there any notification that the train is closed anywhere on the walk to the station thru the parking building? cause if I get all the way over there only to find it is not coming, someone is going to get and earful of BITCH from me.
or is there a taxi stand down below at least?
@15, what? BART’s “tickets” can be topped up and reused, just like an Orca can. I don’t see the difference, except that the Orca is more permanent. What’s really different about BART isn’t the pay medium, it’s TURNSTILES. And yes, they cost an absolute fortune to buy and maintain.
The Orca system is, alas, only theoretically cool. In practice, it’s confusing as hell. How much money do I have on my card? I’m supposed to be able tell at one of the scanning thingies, I think, but if I go near it, it registers a scan. The signs are ABYSMAL. Mostly it just bleeps at 130 decibels and says “SCAN AGAIN, PATHETIC HUMAN”. I think I paid about $6 for a ride from one end of downtown to the other the other day, but I don’t know how to tell.
The signs, Jesus, the signs are so bad I want to scream. People from out of town or, God forbid, another country must just be struck dead with terror.
Exactly how much traffic is there to be avoided at 5:19 am on Christmas Eve?
@26 – nobody cares about the 174 except the druggies and gang-bangers that used it.
Ran into some neighbors of mine last night at Macy’s and we were all saying nice things about the light rail instead of the old bus line …
i’m from boston. the T is pretty good, and it does run until 12:30, but that means the last train *stops* running at 12:30. so the last train might leave a given station at something closer to 11:30 in order to hit the end of the line by 12:30… if you’re at the early end of the line, you just plan ahead. not that big a deal. 11:05 probably wouldn’t be a problem, as long as people know about it.
Even on weekends and holidays, I would like to see the LAST northbound train (to Westlake, not Mt. Baker) leave Sea-Tac no sooner than 1 a.m. Preferably later.
@30, if your card is registered to an ORCA account, you should be able to go online and see when it was used, what route, how much you paid, etc. Erroneous charges can sometimes be fixed by calling ORCA customer service.
@31: There was a looooooong line of cars into the airport that morning as we whizzed by.
McGinn mentioned running the trains to 3am to handle the bar crowds.
You want to revitalize Pioneer Square, too, you say? Make rail and option to AND from.
Vancouver’s goes until 0:57. I know this because the last flight out of Sea-Tac to Vancouver gets in at 23:57 (I connect through Sea-Tac whenever I fly somewhere in the US; thanks, Alaska! :D), and then you go through customs and baggage claim, still make the train, and make your connections to whatever buses you need.
Oh, and there’s a bus that runs when the SkyTrain is closed, so you can still easily get downtown any time of night.
I had the exact same thing happen to me on Sunday. I had to change flights because of a delay that would have made me miss my connection. Thankfully I was smart enough to check the light rail schedule before walking over to the station. I’m not too upset about the $50 cab ride, because I got bumped to first class on the second leg of my trip. I had enough Woodford Reserve in me after the flight to make me not care about much.
The ride to the airport on light rail was nice, and cost a total of $2.25 ($1.75 bus downtown and $0.50 transfer to light rail.
Metro’s bus system provides 4 or 5 separate night-owl buses serving various neighborhoods. You can hop on the 81 to Ballard or the 85 to West Seattle at 2:15 am, every night of the week. They’re full of drunks, but that’s not so bad when you’re one of them.
I can’t see how providing something similar for light rail, even if it’s just one or two late-night runs, would break the bank. It’s not like there are dozens different routes they have to accouint for. There’s just ONE.
@1 and 7, well said. I loved living in Seattle, but bitterly complaining that Tokyo and Paris have marginally better rail schedules, well… There’s a degree of self-delusion going on there that’s hard to believe, even from The Stranger. Seattle is not a major metropolitan area, let alone a world-class city like Paris or Tokyo or London.
@32: Perhaps the most condescending, obnoxious comment I’ve seen on Slog this year (and that’s saying a lot). So nice of you (and the neighbors of yours you ran into at Macy’s last night) not to live in Federal Way and have to work a minimum wage job at the Airport, depending on the 174 for transport. What an ass.
Spokane has only buses, and they stop running at 6:30pm.
I agree, and if you (Jen, the writer) were there this past Sunday then I may have been there around the same time you were trying to catch the light rail =P
To the commenters who agree that the hours should be extend, let them know:
http://www.soundtransit.org/About-Us/Con…
My URL for submitting comments got truncated, here it is again:
http://tinyurl.com/npz4u5
The 174 and 194 also went right to the terminal! I thought Light Rail was going to as well, but apparently not. It’s a quarter mile hike. Not bad if yr younger/no bags to check, not so good otherwise. I was disappointed.
@42 – yeah, but Spokane doesn’t pretend to be a world class city and put on World’s Fairs …
oh, wait …
hmm.
WAAAAHHHHH!!!!! Trains in other cities run 18 minutes later!!!!
[I made the 18 up, don’t fucking nit pick it!]
Your arrogant decision that trains should run when it is convenient for you is lame. Want to ride the train for cheap? Take an earlier flight!
I would bet that I have probably paid more in taxes toward that light rail line than you have and I would love to take it to the airport but there is no ‘reasonable’ way for me to without taxis, private rides, or shuttles. My solution? Taxi to the airport (last trip at least) and private ride home. It was really inconvenient and much more expensive but ‘dems da breaks!
Last time I was in the “World Class City” of Chicago it took 4 cab drivers and 3 locals before I could find a single late-night diner/restaurant in the downtown core. That was really inconvenient too… maybe I should have submitted a whiny rant to SLOG.
Grow up and take some responsibility!
@33: The last inbound trains on the T leave their respective endpoints between 12:05 and 12:25, and converge on downtown at 12:40. This means the last Blue Line passes the airport (3 stops from downtown) at about 12:30, just like Jen said. The last outbound trains then depart Government Center/Park Street/Downtown Crossing in every direction at 12:45. (Buses, as in Seattle, run slightly later.)
This is not that far off from Central Link’s weekday/Saturday arrangement. So the argument here is about Sunday: for now, the impression of consistency and reliability is vital in winning over new riders, and outweighs the money Sound Transit saves by cutting service short. Many people fly on Sunday nights; it would be reasonable for them to presume the last train would be at the same every night. Anyone left stranded on the platform thanks to that presumption will be sure never to ride Link again.
@12 said “I am sure in the first months the NY, Boston, Paris, London subways opened they were not running at their current levels.”
Since those subways opened in bustling cities in 1904, 1897, 1900, and 1863, respectively, people did not need to be lured from their cars. It’s safe to say their popularity was immediate. Sadly, Seattle in 2009 is not analogous.
please don’t diss the tiny town choo choo…
@40 I don’t think anyone is trying to say that Seattle is a Megacity like NYC, London, or Tokyo, or even ‘World Class’ like Paris, Berlin, BA, etc but that if we WANT to be one eventually then we need to start acting like one. I read it more as a call to action than a direct comparison.
Seattle has aspirations. Many of those (IMO) are tied to an effective rail transit system (Higher density, more complete communities, greater night life etc). This would seem an appropriate thread for bringing those up. *shrug*
@41 – I love you too, kk.
I’m not being condescending. We’re those people who actually take transit to the airport, even if we CAN afford to drive and park instead.
Light rail has passed the basic test of usability. But shutting down at 11 pm hurts that from growing.
@45 – from any Alaskan or United flight it’s FURTHER to the bus stop than it is to the light rail station – the bus stop is on the South end of the airport, the light rail is on the north end of the airport.
From my perspective, it was easier to get to the light rail station.
sooo FYI I looked on sound transit and the reason the train only runs till 11pm was b/c it’s sunday.. The other days the last train N from SeaTac is 12:04am and 12:07am.. Sunday’s are always tricky.
Unfortunately, keeping light rail running takes more than an operator and a supervisor. There’s dispatchers/tower operators/whatever they call them here that control the switches, and you need a warm bod in front of each control panel.
Yet another reason why more trolleybuses would have been a much smarter investment.
Of course you forgot to mention that Heathrow Express costs over $30 one-way and even the Tube costs nearly $8 from Heathrow to London. Likewise the RER line B from Paris CDG to downtown costs $12. I imagine if we were willing to pay such high fares we’d probably get later service on Link too.
By the way, Metro route 174 still offers late night service, until 3:30 am, to and from the airport. You can catch it on International Boulevard via the skybridge from the airport light rail station.
I’ve responded to this. Jen, I think you overreacted, especially considering you wouldn’t have been stranded at Mount Baker and you could still get a bus. Light rail already runs two or three hours later than the 194 ever did – things are only easier now.
My piece: http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/12/31…
#41–Relax. The 194 Federal Way route is being replaced by the 574 which is taking over the 194’s route from the airport south with more frequency.
Airport is great, but I personally think the Train should run until 3am on the weekends. At least then south end people can ride it downtown, get drunk, and ride it home, rather than having to drive and park.
If you don’t live in the south end (e.g., Beacon Hill), you can’t yet understand just how great it is to ride that train into downtown rather than driving.
I am a train driver in London – services could easily be run more often, its just that there are less people on them = less revenue so they dont bother. Its become too much about making profits, and not enough about service.
James at http://www.traindrivertrainee.com