“Oppressed people cannot remain oppressed forever. The yearning for freedom eventually manifests itself… There comes a time when the cup of endurance runs over, and men are no longer willing to be plunged into the abyss of despair. I hope sirs, you can understand our legitimate and unavoidable impatience.”—Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail.

84 replies on “Quote for the Day”

  5. dan, i do love u, but nobody turned hoses on u & raped u 4 200 years & made u have babies & don’t hitch your horse to the race plague…

    yes, gays deserve all rights…but don’t pull MLK into it…

    WHITE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    xxx

  6. Never put your rights and needs into the hands of people who think you’re a joke. It was no secret how some people felt about gays all through this country’s history. Now some people who were oppressed in the past need to wake up and see it’s no joke to treat other people like they don’t matter. Why act like everyone’s going to agree with you when you’re being a bigot? There’s speeches, boycotts and marches to be made. How is that a joke? It isn’t. Now stop laughing, assholes. The joke’s on you now.

  8. @5 i hope i’m not mistaken – but didn’t MLK believe in equality for ALL? therefore isn’t it relevant to invoke the spirit of his writings for just about any call for equality? perhaps not a direct line-by-line comparison of injustices, as you have provided us with here, but the spirit of his beliefs. should you not be proud that MLK is a symbol of such a good thing as freedom for ALL?

    aside to everyone: was just rereading the results of the CNN poll. in all the discussion of “who voted for it” i think we (or at least I did) overlooked the most obvious, and still, really the most powerful statistic. it may seem boring to think of, but EIGHTY-TWO PERCENT of REPUBLICANS voted FOR Prop 8. 36% of Dems voted for it. That number should have been smaller, so Dems aren’t blameless, but…

    EIGHTY-TWO PERCENT. really, what gives with that party.

  9. Dan brings us the “Malaysian Howler Monkey” technique of political change;
    shriek it loud and often enough and, no matter how patently ridiculous the claim, eventually the public will buy it.

  10. It is obscene to invoke MLKjr when the issue is changing the NAME of California’s ‘marriage in all but name’ Civil Union to ‘marriage’.

    OBSCENE

  11. I’m all for gay marriage rights, but for fuck sakes stop linking yourselves to the 1960s black civil rights movement. You’re not being oppressed to even a tenth of that degree. GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF AND FUCKING GET REAL. People are not going to take you seriously if you keep hammering on this comparison.

  13. Black oppression and gay oppression are more similar than I thought. What’s the difference between Matthew Shepard, or the boy who got shot in school for being gay and the black people who got drug out of their houses and hung? While people can be excluded, beat up or killed for being who they are–we have to care. BTW-I’m a white, straight, Christian–who saw the results of the Civil Rights movement in North Carolina.

  14. Echoing 11 – I love MLK’s speeches, and I do believe that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, but Dan posting this quote in the context of the perceived Black vs. Gay divide just throws more fuel on the fire. Conservative white christian groups totally bombard Black churches with fliers about how “the gays” are trying to steal the legacy of the civil rights movement and Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s statements in particular. Plus it sets up this implicit analogy that just doesn’t ring true to a lot of people.

    There are tons of great quotes from awesome LGBTQ folks that people don’t even know about – please post some of those!

  15. @12: What about gay women and/or gay people of color? Are they allowed to be upset about not having equal rights as gay Americans? Can they quote Dr. King? Or would that still be pitiful?

  16. I think MLKjr would support this cause. He’d say stuff today in support of it. He’d probably like people to stop trying to suck his dick (LeRoi, CHZA, it’s just pitiful, lori) and instead direct their efforts into supporting equal rights for all.

  17. @9

    Comparing Mr Savage to the Malaysian Howler Monkey is rude and unfair.

    Howlers are no where near as obnoxious as Mr Savage and the association slanders them.

    In the name of all that is holy stop it.

  18. @13
    With regards to Shepard, the difference is that there is no systematic violence against gays for the very reason that gays are not all of the same ethnicity, and this is not a racially-based problem.

  20. @16
    There is no “dick-sucking” of MLK Jr. going on, I’m attempting to note the deference the Civil Rights Movement requires and so many gay rights people seem to be ignoring. Yes, the Civil Rights movement and the gay marriage movement are in the same grain, but by no goddamn means are they on the same level.

  25. I think a member of the prestige ethnicity comparing him or herself, or their cause, to anything to do with MLK Jr., Rosa Parks, or any other African American civil rights leader is sort of the inverse corollary of Godwin’s Law: it undercuts your argument as surely as comparing your ideological opponent to Hitler or the Nazis, or their actions to the Holocaust.

    The history of African American civil rights in the United States is an unprecedented narrative, in much the same way that the Holocaust was an unprecedented atrocity. Comparing gay civil rights or even Latino civil rights to the struggle for African American civil rights, at the level of moral justification, only serves to show that you’re so shockingly egocentric and lacking in any sense of proportion that you’re not even worth arguing with.

    But that’s just my read. I’m sure there are lots of other people whose minds you don’t need to change who find your analogy really compelling.

  26. @12. Funny, you didn’t mention the actual category of people that is being oppressed: gays. You try to turn this into a white thing?

    @11. The black movement for civil rights was a movement for civil rights. It was not a movement for blacks to be loved and socially and culturally accepted by everyone else, to be treated in private encounters without racism, etc. It was that blacks should be recognized–in front of the law, hence, civilly–as equal to whites. Inasmuch as the gay movement for civil rights is a movement towards gays being recognized as equal–in front of the law, hence, civilly–the analogy is applicable. No one is arguing that the forms and styles of the oppressions are equal. But you want to argue that the civil matter isn’t the same? You really want to argue that gays are not treated equally in front of the law, that gays don’t have all the protections that straight blacks and whites now enjoy legally and civilly? If you do, you’re, well, a moron.

    @23. You really want to deny systematic violence towards gays? Check out some rap and hip hop lyrics, check in with mental health professionals, read some hate crimes stats, ask police in gay neighborhoods what’s up… Is it state sanctioned? No. Has the state moved to remove it? No. Do blacks enjoy legal protections against hate crimes now? Yes.

    @3. MLK eventually had to distance himself from him, because of what white AND black homophobes would think about their association.

    @14. The refusal to grant the analogy is itself evidence of deep homophobia.

    I’m starting to wonder if some blacks are pissed off about something. Pre-movement for civil rights, blacks were legally, socially, and culturally oppressed/discriminated against, etc. The black movement for civil rights brings about legal equality and outlaws legal discrimination, but blacks continued to find social and cultural oppression and discrimination. Gays, on the other hand, have achieved social and cultural acceptance in cosmopolitan enclaves, but have lacked legal protections. Now that gays are demanding legal protections and full civil rights (which blacks already have), maybe some blacks are pissed off that change has come faster for gays?

  27. Gay people ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE that have a religious text stating it’s OKAY AND FINE to stone them, kill them, remove them, and term them and Abomination. Gay people are still killed based on Religious tenants and the murderers do it with Zeal. Black people have NEVER EVER had a religious text written stating it’s OKAY to kill them for being of African decent. So given that reality, The Black Civil rights movement, and the 100s of years of slavery PALES PALES in comparison to the 1000s of years of INSTITUTIONAL Homo-hating on the part of some Religions and those that practice those belief systems. Quoting MLK is fine because the AA struggle was 300 years or so, the Gay struggle has been going on for a few 1000.

  28. @25. Rosa Parks wasn’t a civil rights leader. She was a prop and became of symbol of the movement. I can’t take anything you say about movements seriously after that silliness.

  31. #28 – you mistake.

    Rosa was involved in many actions, an officer in the local NAACP – hardly a prop.

    Your discourse is excellent, stick with facts.

    Her move was clearly thought out, deliberate and became the springboard for a national movement – all to her courage and political and social thinking and education.

  34. 27
    “…Gay people are still killed based on Religious tenants and the murderers do it with Zeal…”

    So are we sure we want to throw out the rules and change the game to a no-holds-barred fight against the other 98% of the population?

  36. Most of these post show how bankrupt the Black Civil rights movement is at this time and place.

    Coasting on history is kinda stale.

    Asserting a franchise on civil liberties is silly.

    A better world will deliver better rights to ALL who are now sitting in non equality – plenty of room – the pie for equality is generous and huge.

    Pitting one against another is very right wing. Very. The Jew is the enemy of all for a multitude of reasons. The Negro cannot have any of the rights of whites for a list of reasons too odious to mention, but, were common. The Queer …. about the same list.

    Only the far right gains in this climate….. as in the KKK and Nazi and Organized Anti Gay Bigotry.

    In my white family Martin Luther King is THE icon of our most revered of people. Of course …. most of the relationships in this era are nulti cacial and multi ethnic and all cool gay.

    Change is the word, change … keep on trucking.

  37. 36

    The ‘right wing’
    did not instill
    rampant racism into the
    elitest white homosexual community.

    The ‘right wing’
    did not instill
    rampant homophobia into the
    Black community.

    You girls are pitting all by yourselves.

  38. #37

    “rampant racism in the gay white community”

    Suck my cock – this is a total lie. I have never been in any group in so called white America that is less racist then the gay male community in Seattle.

    Throwing insults is so easy.

    Mixed Race Fag

  39. Dan — when MLK wrote that, there was no show called “Wilt and Grace.” You couldn’t watch “Black Eye for the Nerdy Guy” and the Cos wasn’t selling Jello. But there were federal mandates failing to be upheld legally under the color of states rights. Gays now have a far, far greater assumption of dignity than blacks did fourty years ago — and we need to recognize that not as a debate-tactic concession, but as something for which we should feel actual, powerful joy. The time between the great coming out process in the 50s and 60s and the eventual grant of full equality under the law and full equality in fact looks, frankly, like a lightening bolt in comparison to the crawl of black civil rights in this country.

    That is a testament to the openness of Americans. Dan, you’ve done some good work on TV lately talking about the black gays and the latino gays — don’t undercut by quoting King without comment or context, as the point-blank comparison of gay rights to black rights only stirs up resentment from the people whose approval gay blacks need the most — straight blacks.

  41. I think the issue Riz is trying to show is that black’s, including non transgenger black gays like myself, face violent homophoebic behavior from even our own race. There are many blacks, especially the heavy-handed religous ones, who still see being gay as a “white thing” and don’t want to admit that their choir director or church music director’s gay.

    #38 – I know we’ve both seen the racism in the gay community in Seattle. It’s apparatus when you see the cliques around here. If you’re black and into interracial dating, it’s a tough hill to climb in this city when you’re talking to white guys around your age who won’t give you the time of day because they don’t find you attractive one bit b/c they’re “not into black guys”. But you end getting attention from guys who are either 15+ years older than you are not that attractive. That’s my problem. I visit Vancouver or NYC and it’s totally the opposite for me.

  42. I think the issue Riz is trying to show is that black’s, including non transgenger black gays like myself, face violent homophoebic behavior from even our own race. There are many blacks, especially the heavy-handed religous ones, who still see being gay as a “white thing” and don’t want to admit that their choir director or church music director’s gay.

    #38 – I know we’ve both seen the racism in the gay community in Seattle. It’s apparatus when you see the cliques around here. If you’re black and into interracial dating, it’s a tough hill to climb in this city when you’re talking to white guys around your age who won’t give you the time of day because they don’t find you attractive one bit b/c they’re “not into black guys”. But you end getting attention from guys who are either 15+ years older than you are not that attractive. That’s my problem. I visit Vancouver or NYC and it’s totally the opposite for me.

  44. Gay people ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE that have a religious text stating it’s OKAY AND FINE to stone them, kill them, remove them, and term them and Abomination…
    Black people have NEVER EVER had a religious text written stating it’s OKAY to kill them for being of African decent…
    The Black Civil rights movement, and the 100s of years of slavery PALES PALES in comparison to the 1000s of years of INSTITUTIONAL Homo-hating on the part of some Religions

    Fact 1: The Bible has long been used to justify violence and oppression again black people, both here and abroad.
    Fact 2: Gays have not always been oppressed by Christians. Early Christianity was pretty neutral on the topic and there’s even evidence of the early church sanctioning marriages between men.
    Fact 3: You are a ignoramus.

  46. @41 – ugh i hate spell check sometimes lol 🙂

    @38 –

    don’t undercut by quoting King without comment or context, as the point-blank comparison of gay rights to black rights only stirs up resentment from the people whose approval gay blacks need the most — straight blacks.

    you hit the nail dead on. this not only applies to homophoebia in the black community, this applies to HIV/AIDS awareness and prevention in the black community. I can tell you stories from my mom, who’s been a RN nurse for hospice, about str8 blacks in the black community dying of AIDS and how they’re rejected by their families and the community. It’s sad.

  47. BTW Dan, I have no issues with you quoting Dr. King. But I think you’ve been preaching to the wrong choir since Prop 8 passed. Try talking to the black community face to face rather than via passive aggressive ways. Talk to some gay black guys in the area face to face w/o the press or anyone documenting it. All we ask is just for a closed door discussion.

    Hell I’m willing to meet to discuss this. Consider it confession (and I’m a gay black catholic). Whatever is said, will only be between you, me and God.

  48. @41 & 42,

    Sorry, but cute young guys not wanting to fuck you isn’t evidence of racism. It’s just evidence that not everyone wants to fuck you.

  49. @44. The Bible has long been used to justify violence and oppression again black people, both here and abroad.

    There is a difference between slave owners using the Bible to “justify” owning and disciplining slaves and the Bible clearly and distinctly stating that homosexual relations is an “abomination” and gay mens’ “blood is on their hands.”

    One is interpretation and justification for owning slaves; the other is a direct order from God to kill homosexuals.

    An extremely important distinction that I hope you can see and understand.

  50. Is there some counterpart to Godwin’s Law that any internet discussion of discrimination inevitably turns into a competition to prove that only one targeted group has suffered absolutely the worst oppression ever in all of human existence? If so, let me be so bold as to nominate women as the most shat-upon group; it’s even in the Bible near the beginning:

    To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
    -Genesis 3:16

    That is a direct quote from God; ergo I have just proved that my premise is the most right.

    I’m being sarcastic here. What the fuck happened to trying to be allies? And finding common ground? As a young white straight woman, I appreciate hearing from people at what is called the “intersection of oppressions.” Like Audre Lorde and Mandy Carter and people I know who are trans and/or genderqueer who struggle to be respected as human beings. And some of the commenters here that I assume to be out people of color but don’t know for sure.

    Well, enjoy the rest of your sunday everyone.

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