As I mentioned in the Morning News, last night’s Hardball featured a gay-marriage discussion between Maggie Gallagher of the National Organization for Marriage (the group behind the shamelessly fear-mongering “Gathering Storm” ad) and Joe Solmonese of the Human Rights Campaign, and here it is:
First impressions: Maggie Gallagher is more eloquent than I imagined, and Joe Solmonese was less eloquent than I wanted.
A key point left unaddressed is brought up by Gallagher’s repetition of the idea that “redefining marriage will change marriage forever.” This is true, and pretending it isn’t is unwise. The question is whether this disruption to the existing idea of marriage is threatening enough to deny equal rights to an entire class of citizens, and the answer is unequivocally no.
Yes, granting marriage rights to same-sex couples will “change marriage forever,” just like the civil rights movement changed public transportation forever, and the suffrage movement changed democracy forever. This is called progress, and protecting the (unfair) world that the marriage-is-only-between-a-man-and-a-woman folks have grown accustomed is in no way so pressing a concern it mandates denying equal rights to an entire group of Americans. (In other words: wrapping her brain around the new realities of 21st-century life is Ms. Gallagher’s job; it is not the government’s job to perpetuate injustice just to keep her and her ilk comfortable.)
99, What if the person who gets to dictate the one “ideal” marriage decides it’s between a man and woman of the same race, to keep the white race pure? Should we teach that as the single true definition of marriage?
Can someone remind me when exactly in school we are taught about marriage and it being between a man and a woman? Because I seriously DON’T ever remember being taught that.
76 I’m sorry but I’m sure you know well that wikipedia is not a reliable source to quote cause anyone can change it and put whatever biased research or even comment they want to pu in it.
100, who gets to be the one to define the one true ideal marriage for everyone? How do we force everyone to live by the one true ideal?
Lets say that schools get to teach that the one true ideal definition of marriage is between a man and a women, and a child says he was taught that marriage was between two loving committed people, regardless of gender? Should that kid be re-educated to believe your one true ideal?
If found this comment thought provoking.
Some say that same-sex marriage will lead to polygamous marriage, but there’s one problem with that theory: In the last decade 7 countries have now allowed gender-neutral marriage (Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Canada, South Africa, Norway and Sweden). Not one of these countries allows polygamous marriages.
In addition, there are about 48 countries in the world which DO allow polygamous marriages and NOT one, NOT one is even close to considering gay marriage. These are countries where polygamy has historically been common. These countries probably won’t be having gay marriage any time soon since the MAJORITY have laws calling homosexuality a crime. That’s right, a man can have more than one wife, but if a man sleeps with another man he can be put to prison and even be executed in some countries.
That should be evidence right there, that wanting to marry ONE person who happens to be the same gender is NOT the same as wanting to legally have multiple wives.
Posted by Benny on April 7, 2009 at 2:34 PM
98
101
You are still avoiding the question.
Reread 97, if needed have an adult help you understand it.
Kim, the polygamy argument is a diversionary tactic. I do believe the people should have the freedom to enter into a polygamous marriage, but it’s like saying if we allow people to eat meat, it will lead to cannibalism. They are two different issues.
105
It is not evidence that a society that has people who want to marry the same sex will not also have people who want to live polygamy. America has both.
When marriage is redefined and same sex marriage is legalized what justification will exist for not allowing polygamy?
106, I guess I’ll have to spell out my answer to you. There is no one true ideal form of marriage that applies to everyone, so it would be silly to teach children that there is one.
106, to add, I answered your question, now answer some of mine.
110
Then the concern raised in @84 is a valid one:
“When the idea that children need moms and dads get[s] legally stigmatized as bigotry, the job of parents and faith communities trying to transmit a marriage culture to their kids is going to get a lot harder.”
And the religious liberty of people whose faith teaches them that marriage is between one man and one woman is gone also.
111, That’s a false argument. Abortion is legal, and it hasn’t stopped or made illegal churches and religious people from speaking out against it. It hasn’t stopped churches from teaching that abortion is wrong.
105 Do you truly believe that in seven years in some places less of gay marriage having opened the door to an anything goes mentality in those countries things such as polygamy or polyandry will immediately instituted?
The doors have been opened and it will happen, homosexuals like Rob are not shy about admitting their approval of plural marriages, they truly believe that along with the termination of marriage things such as polygamy are the future path that society needs to take in order to make the world a better place.
113, Again, that is like saying eating meat is going to lead to cannibalism. It’s a silly, diversionary argument because you don’t have a real one about gay marriage.
Loveschild, you ignorant slut.
How exactly do you logically equate two LOVING adults who want to form a legal bond between each other (no matter their sex, they are both adults, that’s all that matters) will lead to polygamy?
Having an ‘ideal’ does not mean that everyone will meet that ideal or be forced to meet it but it does mean teaching that it is the best and promoting and encouraging it as a goal. And, sorry, there can only be one ‘ideal’.
116, Not everyone will have the same ideal. I might think the Ideal fashion statement is 70’s era leisure suits. Does that mean that is the ideal for everyone? Who gets to define the one true ideal for everyone?
@ 92, it doesn’t bother me at all. It should bother you because of what it says about you – that even in an anonymous forum, you lack the self-confidence to be known by one name.
If you had just the least bit of honor, you’d stick to one handle, just like Loveschild does. Heck, even she doesn’t respect you.
@105
That is a silly argument.
America has had a sub culture of polygamy for 150 years, long preceding the push for homosexual marriage. It is naive to think that polygamist will not demand equal rights once the door to marriage is thrown open.
118
Is that true Loveschild?!
Loveschild @ 103, as I said, it’s a STARTING POINT. You wanted links, there are dozens of links to peer-reviewed articles and books all in one place. I made it pretty clear that it wasn’t the entry itself I was referring you to.
Click on those LINKS. Check out those BOOKS. Only then can you criticize the research.
117
If radical militant atheist homosexuals get to define the ideal taught in public schools the religious liberties of all who believe marriage is between a man and a woman will be in danger.
113,
I am not feeling my best, I don’t understand your question as you posted it. Forgive me if I misunderstand you.
The post is from Benny.
Do I automatically assume that gender neutral marriage will automatically lead to polygamy. No.
Don’t forget that there are Fundamentalist Mormans who already live in polygamous marriage, here in the United States and this countries present laws have not eliminated them from happening.
Overall, I think the argument if we allow X, than Y will automatically happen, is a very weak argument to justify descrimination.
Again… can someone PLEASE show me exactly where in public school curriculum marriage is taught?
loveschild..
where is jesus’s wife. where are their babies ? where is paul’s wife ? where are their babies ?
@ 119, depending on how a polygamous marriage works (e.g., whether it’s consenting adults and not 50 year old cult weirdos who to sleep with 13 year old girls – and yes, there are such examples), I wouldn’t say that polygamy is, in and of itself, immoral, just like any other victimless crime. My only objection is what impact that would have on the tax code.
So let them ask for legal recognition of their marriage. Slippery slope arguments are Illegitimate reasons for opposing gay marriage.
123
So if we throw out the current definition of marriage there will be very little justification left for discriminating against polygamist.
114 you at 107 “I do believe the people should have the freedom to enter into a polygamous marriage”
Polygamy or polyandry is Okay with you. And it completely follows your logic about sexual freedoms. If no regulations can be made to preserve marriage as an institution for two people of the same gender then why should it only be restricted to two people or in some more extreme cases just between humans? Once that basic tenant for recognizing what constitutes amarriage is done away with there’s no real basis to deny these other alternatives to others.
123, Kim, I should have written it more clearly. I was trying to add to your point. People saying that gender neutral marriage will lead to polygamy, is like saying that eating meat will lead to cannibalism. There are similarities between the two, but it’s not the same issue. People here only bring polygamy up as diversionary argument because they really don’t have a good argument against gay marriage.
I meant to say: preserve marriage for two people of opposite genders
126
So in your world’s high school Human Family Relations class the Fundamentalist Mormon will get to make their case to the kids right next to the Gay-Strait Alliance advisor about what the ‘ideal’ family looks like?
Something to think on.
Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the National Association of Social Workers
The National Association of Social Workers (NASW) has stated the following:
Social workers are guided by the NASW Code of Ethics which bans discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. . . NASW believes that non judgmental attitudes toward sexual orientation allow social workers to offer optimal support and services to lesbian and gay people. NASW affirms its commitment to work toward full social and legal acceptance of lesbian and gay people. The profession must also act to eliminate and prevent discriminatory statutes, policies, and actions that diminish the quality of life for lesbian and gay people and that force many to live their lives in the closet. (National Association of Social Workers: Lesbian and Gay Issues. Washington, DC, NASW Delegate Assembly, 1993.)
“Reparative Therapy”
The National Association of Social Workers in its Policy Statement on Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Issues: “endorses policies in both the public and private sectors that ensure nondiscrimination; that are sensitive to the health and mental health needs of lesbian, gay, and bisexual people; and that promote an understanding of lesbian, gay, and bisexual cultures. Social stigmatization of lesbian, gay, and bisexual people is widespread and is a primary motivating factor in leading some people to seek sexual orientation changes.” [Haldeman, D.C. (1994). The practice and ethics of sexual orientation conversion therapy. Journal of Counseling and Clinical Psychology, 62(2), 221-227.]
Sexual orientation conversion therapies assume that homosexual orientation is both pathological and freely chosen. No data demonstrate that reparative or conversion therapies are effective, and in fact they may be harmful. [Davison, G.C. (1991). Constructionism and morality in therapy for homosexuality. In J.C. Gonsiorek & J.D. Weinrich, Homosexuality: Research implications for public policy. Newbury Park, CA: Sage Publications; Gonsiorek, J.C., & Weinrich, J.D. (1991). Homosexuality: Research implications for public policy. Newbury Park, CA: Sage Publications; Haldeman, D.C. (1994)]. NASW believes social workers have the responsibility to clients to explain the prevailing knowledge concerning sexual orientation and the lack of data reporting positive outcomes with reparative therapy. NASW discourages social workers from providing treatments designed to change sexual orientation or from referring practitioners or programs that claim to do so. [Policy Statement: Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Issues. Approved by Delegate Assembly, August 1996. Social Work Speaks, 4th ed., NASW, 1997]
More to think on.
Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the American Academy of Pediatrics
In an excerpt from their policy on Homosexuality and Adolescence (RE9332), the American Academy of Pediatrics states:
Summary of Physician Guidelines
Pediatricians should be aware that some of the youths in their care may be homosexual or have concerns about sexual orientation. Caregivers should provide factual, current, nonjudgmental information in a confidential manner. These youths may present to physicians seeking information about homosexuality, STDs, substance abuse, or various psychosocial difficulties. The pediatrician should ensure that each youth receives a thorough medical history and physical examination (including appropriate laboratory tests), as well as STD (including HIV) counseling and, if necessary, appropriate treatment. The health care professional should also be attentive to various potential psychosocial difficulties and offer counseling or refer for counseling when necessary.
The American Academy of Pediatrics reaffirms the physician’s responsibility to provide comprehensive health care and guidance for all adolescents, including gay and lesbian adolescents and those young people struggling with issues of sexual orientation. The deadly consequences of AIDS and adolescent suicide underscore the critical need to address and seek to prevent the major physical and mental health problems that confront gay and lesbian youths in their transition to a healthy adulthood.
From Pediatrics, Vol. 92, No. 4 (October 1993, pp. 631-34).
“Reparative Therapy”
The American Academy of Pediatrics in its policy statement on Homosexuality and Adolescence states: “Confusion about sexual orientation is not unusual during adolescence. Counseling may be helpful for young people who are uncertain about their sexual orientation or for those who are uncertain about how to express their sexuality and might profit from an attempt at clarification through a counseling or psychotherapeutic initiative. Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.” [Policy Statement: Homosexuality and Adolescence, American Academy of Pediatrics, 1993.]
129
If there are no good arguments against gay marriage there are none against polygamy.
More:
Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the American Counseling Association
The American Counseling Association has a division called the “Association for Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues in Counseling”. Its mission is as follows:
Mission Statement
The mission of the Association for Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues in Counseling is to educate mental health service providers about issues confronting gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) individuals. We believe that all individuals should be free to develop their full potential regardless of sexual orientation and gender identity, and that professional counselors must understand the unique ways gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered individuals experience inequality and injustice resulting from discrimination and prejudice.
From the mission statement for the Association for Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues in Counseling.
“Reparative Therapy”
The American Counseling Association has adopted a resolution that states that it: “opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation; and supports the dissemination of accurate information about sexual orientation, mental health, and appropriate interventions in order to counteract bias that is based on ignorance or unfounded beliefs about same-gender sexual orientation.” [Resolution adopted by American Counseling Association Governing Council, March 1998.] Further, at its 1999 World Conference, ACA adopted a position opposing the promotion of “reparative therapy” as a “cure” for individuals who are homosexual. [Action by American Counseling Association Governing Council, April 1999.]
128, polygamy should be legal, as it involves consenting adults.
Now comparing gay people to animals is just a way for you to dehumanize gay people. Unlike gay adults, animals can’t read and understand a marriage license, nor can they understand the concept. Do you not get that distinction?
Both arguments are diversionary tactic, because you can’t really find a good reason to deny gay people marriage.
More.
Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the American Medical Association
In an excerpt from their Policy on the Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population (H-160.991), the American Medical Association states:
Our AMA: (1) believes that the physician’s nonjudgmental recognition of sexual orientation and behavior enhances the ability to render optimal patient care in health as well as in illness… With the help of the gay and lesbian community and through a cooperative effort between physician and the homosexual patient effective progress can be made in treating the medical needs of this particular segment of the population; (2) is committed to taking a leadership role in: (a) educating physicians on the current state of research in and knowledge of homosexuality and the need to take an adequate sexual history; these efforts should start in medical school, but must also be a part of continuing medical education; (b) educating physicians to recognize the physical and psychological needs of their homosexual patients; (c) encouraging the development of educational programs for homosexuals to acquaint them with the diseases for which they are at risk; (d) encouraging physicians to seek out local or national experts in the health care needs of gay men and lesbians so that all physicians will achieve a better understanding of the medical needs of this population; and (e) working with the gay and lesbian community to offer physicians the opportunity to better understand the medical needs of homosexual and bisexual patients; and (3) opposes, the use of “reparative” or “conversion” therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation.
From H-160.991 Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population.
Rob’s got you, Loveschild.
More:
Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association
In an excerpt from their policy concerning homosexuality, the American Psychiatric Association states:
“What is Sexual Orientation?”
“Sexual orientation” is a term frequently used to describe a person”s romantic, emotional or sexual attraction to another person. A person attracted to another person of the same sex is said to have a homosexual orientation and may be called gay (both men and women) or lesbian. Individuals attracted to persons of the other sex are said to have a heterosexual orientation. Sexual orientation falls along a continuum and individuals who are attracted to
both men and women are said to be bisexual. Sexual orientation is different from gender identity, which refers to the internal sense of whether one is male or female. Sexual orientation is a relatively new concept. In fact, although same sex behavior has always existed, the idea of a homosexual identity or a homosexual person is only about 100 years old.
The concept of sexual orientation refers to more than sexual behavior. It includes feelings as well as identity. Some individuals may identify themselves as gay lesbian or bisexual without engaging in any sexual activity. Some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime. Individuals maybe become aware at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian,or bisexual.
Is Homosexuality A Mental Disorder?
No. All major professional mental health organizations have gone on record to affirm that homosexuality is not a mental disorder.
From the Fact Sheet on Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues (May 2000).
“Reparative Therapy”
The American Psychiatric Association in its position statement on Psychiatric Treatment and Sexual Orientation states: “The potential risks of ‘reparative therapy’ are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone ‘reparative therapy’ relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed.” [Position Statement: Psychiatric Treatment and Sexual Orientation, American Psychiatric Association, 1998.]
Still more:
Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the American Psychological Association
In an excerpt from their policy concerning homosexuality, the American Psychological Association states:
Attitudes Toward Homosexuality and Bisexuality
Guideline 1. Psychologists understand that homosexuality and bisexuality are not indicative of mental illness.
Guideline 2. Psychologists are encouraged to recognize how their attitudes and knowledge about lesbian, gay, and bisexual issues may be relevant to assessment and treatment and seek consultation or make appropriate referrals when indicated.
Guideline 3. Psychologists strive to understand the ways in which social stigmatization (i.e., prejudice, discrimination, and violence) poses risks to the mental health and well-being of lesbian, gay, and bisexual clients.
Guideline 4. Psychologists strive to understand how inaccurate or prejudicial views of homosexuality or bisexuality may affect the client’s presentation in treatment and the therapeutic process.
From Guidelines for Psychotherapy with Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Clients.
Reparative Therapy
The American Psychological Association in its Resolution on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation, which is also endorsed by the National Association of School Psychologists, states: “That the American Psychological Association opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation and supports the dissemination of accurate information about sexual orientation, and mental health, and appropriate interventions in order to counteract bias that is based in ignorance or unfounded beliefs about sexual orientation.” [Resolution on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation, American Psychological Association, 1997.]
123 Good friday Kim, I hope it’s nothing serious and that you feel better soon.
It’s my fault, I didn’t make it clearly. I was asking you If you truly think that in seven years of gay marriage becoming legal things such as polygamy, bestiality and other sexual conducts like them will become immediately the law of the land?
I don’t, I think that it will take some time for them to be regarded the same status as traditional marriage but the ground work has already been laid in places like Spain and the Netherlands and people start to become desensitized the more they see such things.
133
The AA of Pediatrics … states: “Confusion about sexual orientation is not unusual during adolescence.”
Activist homosexuals prey on confused teenager and try to convince them that homosexuality is cool and hip and that they ARE homosexual. These attempts to set in stone sexual identity in young confused evolving personalities are devastating and cruel, and can lead to the same results the AAP warns of with “Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation”; which is to “provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.”
The ‘gay’ teen suicide rate Dan loves to peddle has as a component confused kids being pressured to out themselves as Gay, when in fact they don’t know and haven’t decided what they are yet.
134, It’s a separate issue, and a battle for the pro-polygamy group to fight. This is about gay marriage.
142 – you pulled that outta your ass. Unless you can give an example of it ever happening…
143
Those who would deny justice to others hardly deserve it themselves…
Loveschild, there is no comparing the rape of an animal that’s incapable of giving consent to the loving partnership entered into between two consenting adults. That’s why the bestiality argument fails.
144
who are you kidding?
this is slog…
Dan can cite an 11 year old and a kid who isn’t even gay?
@142 is as valid as any of the rest of the shit that gets posted here.
@ 145, nice non sequitur.
@ 147, you miss the points of all those posts too. Sucks to be so dumb, doesn’t it?
Interesting.
Professional Associations’ statements about Homosexuality
A brief history of professional beliefs about homosexuality:
Until the mid 1950’s the scientific study of human sexuality was in its infancy; research into sexual orientation was almost unknown. Homosexuality had been condemned by religious leaders for centuries. Almost all gays and lesbians remained securely in the closet. Homosexual behavior was a criminal act in most states of the U.S. It was branded a sexual deviation by mental health professionals. Homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder by the American Psychiatric Association in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders.
During the early 1950’s, Psychologist Evelyn Hooker was inspired to undertake research into sexual orientation after having befriended Sam From. He was a gay student who attended one of her psychology classes at UCLA. He didn’t seem to fit any of the familiar stereotypes of a gay male. With a grant from the National Institute of Mental Health, she compared two groups of subjects: one homosexual and the other heterosexual. Author Ryan Johnson wrote:
“Both groups were matched for age, intelligence quotient (IQ) and education level, and were then subjected to three psychological tests. These three tests, the Rorschach, Thematic Apperception Test (TAT) and the Make-A-Picture-Story Test (MAPS), were then analyzed by psychologists, and the results were tabulated. The results of Hooker’s experiment yielded no significant differences in answers…” 4 between the two groups.
In 1957, Hooker published a report called “The Adjustment of the Male Overt Homosexual.” It showed that “homosexuals were not inherently abnormal and that there was no difference between homosexual and heterosexual men in terms of pathology.” Dr. Hooker headed the Task Force on Homosexuality of the National Institute of Mental Health for many years. Johnson wrote:
“As a result of Hooker’s finding, the American [Psychological Association]… removed homosexuality from its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychological Disorders in 1973. In 1975 it then released a public statement that homosexuality was not a mental disorder. In 1994, two decades later, the American Psychological Association finally stated, ‘…homosexuality is neither a mental illness nor a moral depravity. It is the way a portion of the population expresses human love and sexuality’.”
Evelyn Hooker died on 1996-NOV-18, but had lived long enough to see the acceptance of homosexuality as a normal, natural sexual variant by most religious liberals, social liberals, and youth. She also saw the establishment of a new area of scientific study: sexual orientation in humans.
As of 2006, all of the professional organizations in the field state that homosexuality is a normal, natural, and fixed sexual orientation, with the exception of a small group, The National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality whose beliefs appear to be based on conservative Christian theology.
Obstacles preventing accurate studies of sexual orientation:
Unfortunately, the study of sexual orientation has many obstacles, not the least of which are bias, lack of accurate measurement techniques and self-delusion:
Bias: Few if any scientists motivated to study human sexuality enter the field without strong biases. It is extremely difficult for a researcher to remain totally objective and impartial on a matter as intimately personal as sexual orientation. Our finding in an unrelated medical field may be instructive here: we searched for information on when in gestation a fetus is capable of feeling pain. Many pro-life physicians believe that a fetus can feel pain as early as 7 weeks – part way through the first trimester. Many pro-choice physicians believe that it is not until certain synaptic connections are formed within the fetal brain at about the 28th week of pregnancy that pain can be sensed. This is well into the third trimester when very few pregnancies are terminated. There may be some pro-choice researcher in the world that says 17.5 weeks or less; there may be some pro-life researcher who said 17.5 weeks or more. But we have been unable to find any. Human sexuality is similar. Conservative Christians often define homosexuality as something that people do; it is a chosen preference. It is a disorder caused by poor parenting, which be overcome through therapy and prayer. Gays, lesbians, religious liberals, and most therapists believe homosexuality is something that people are; it is a pre-determined orientation that is normal and natural for them, just as heterosexual orientation is normal and natural for heterosexuals. And they feel that it is fixed and unchangeable, perhaps genetically determined like gender and race. With such an extreme polarization, it is rare for a researcher to be completely unbiased. There appears to be no middle ground.
Research studies: In the decades prior to Evelyn Hooker’s pioneering work, researchers committed a fatal error when studying homosexuals. They recruited their subjects from prisons and therapists offices. They ended up studying individuals who had been in trouble with the law and who experienced emotional problems relating to their sexual orientation. It was only when Hooker recruited subjects from the general gay and lesbian population that this bias was overcome. Decades later, in the late 20th century, researchers repeated the same error when studying the homosexual behavior and orientation of youth.
Measurement: There is no consensus on the precise meaning of the terms “homosexual” or “heterosexual.” Some measure sexual orientation in terms of an individual’s fantasies; others in terms of a person’s self-description; others in terms of behavior, etc. Consider a statement like: “if identical twins are separated at birth and raised in isolation from each other, and one is gay, then there is a 50% chance that the other is gay.” A number of studies have concluded this. But the statement is not precise, unless we can first decide what the term “homosexual” really means. What if one twin is clearly gay, while the other twin was deeply in the closet and refused to admit that he is a homosexual? What if the twin is celibate, has homosexual fantasies but never had a homosexual relationship?
Delusion: Studies have been made to determine the success rate of conversion counseling – therapy designed to convert homosexuals into heterosexuals. Success rates of 30% to 50% have been claimed by therapist in various Christian ministries. But these are rarely backed up with hard data. Unfortunately, psychologists, psychiatrists and other therapists and counselors have a very poor track record in assessing their clients: therapists who use recovered memory therapy generally report that their clients improve during therapy. Studies of suicide rate, psychiatric hospital admissions, marriage breakup, unemployment rate show the opposite.
therapists engaged in multiple personality disorder treatment (a.k.a. dissociative identity disorder) report that the bulk of their clients develop multiple personalities. But objective studies show that these “alter” personalities disappear shortly after the therapy ends. Also, these alters do not seem to be present in nature; they only develop in a therapist’s office.
professionals who believe in Satanic ritual abuse help the vast majority of their clients recover memory of childhood Satanic ritual abuse. So too with therapists who believe that emotional problems in adults are caused by abuse in former lifetimes, or abuse on board UFOs.
therapeutic touch therapists are convinced that they can heal people by balancing energy patterns in their patient’s bodies. But a simple science fair project by a public school student showed that TT therapists cannot detect body energy fields, let alone balance them.
many professionals who use facilitated communication are convinced that it enables severely autistic individuals to communicate via computer. But dozens of studies have shown that, except for a small minority of children, all of the “communicating” comes from the facilitator and not the person with autism.
The ability of therapists to delude themselves is immense. Study results too often reflect the researcher’s beliefs rather than any cold reality. Probably the only studies of homosexuality that have a chance of being reliable would be those in which the researchers hold diverse opinions on the nature of sexual orientation. Unfortunately, to our knowledge, such studies have never been made.
http://www.religioustolerance.org.hom_pr…