I gotta speak up about one of the rules you laid out for cheating. If you entered into a monogamous relationship with your significant other, then you should remain monogamous; you cannot cheat on them if they get cancer or in a car wreck and can’t have sex anymore. Moreover, physical inability to fuck is not a good reason to leave them either. Someone who is too sick to fuck needs your support more than ever. Anyone who enters into a monogamous relationship should know that it is quite possible that either they or their partner could be randomly struck by an ailment that prevents sex, but this fact alone does not permit them to cheat or leave. It is selfish to cheat on someone in a circumstance such as this. If you really feel the need to cheat on your dying husband or wife, you should have thought about that before you got married.
I Have Two Buttholes
My response after the jump…
I described cheating on a sick or disabled partner—a very seriously ill partner, a profoundly, incapacitatingly disabled partner—like this…
Cheating is permissible when it amounts to the least worst option, i.e. when someone who made a monogamous commitment isn’t getting any at home (sick or disabled or withholding-without-cause spouse) and divorce isn’t an option (sick or disabled or withholding-without-cause-spouse-who-can’t-be-divorced-for-some-karma-imperilling-reason-or-other) and the sex on the side makes it possible for the cheater to stay married and stay sane.
When someone with a sick or disabled partner faces a choice between cheating, leaving, or going insane, I think they should cheat.
But, hey, I agree that people who make monogamous commitments should do their level best to honor those commitments. But an illness or a serious disability can change roles and expectations, IHTB, and tragic and/or hopeless circumstances can quickly transform a lovers-and-partners relationship into patient-and-caretaker relationship. No one suffers more than the sick or disabled person, of course, but the caretaker role places tremendous pressures on the able partner.
If a little discreet cheating makes it possible for someone to be there for a sick or disabled partner—if it makes it possible for that person to remain faithful in the most meaningful sense of the term—no one outside that relationship has a right to judge. And, again, I’m not saying that people in monogamous relationships have a right to cheat on their partners at the first sign of sniffles or if their partners are bedridden for a few months with a broken leg. I’m talking about the grind of years and years of caring for a sick or dying partner.
Circumstances change, IHTB, and sometimes allowances have to made. It’s neither helpful nor realistic to demand that others go without physical intimacy for years or decades because you can’t wrap your head around a situation where a person might need to sneak out and do a small wrong in order to stay put and do a much larger right.
A partner worth sticking around for is a partner who won’t expect you to go without physical intimacy if they can’t provide it.
Just be honest, people. The sooner we can all agree to have reality-based relationships, the better.
@2, agreed, and also, at least some of the sex has to be joyful. If one partner is always being a martyr, just tolerating sex for the sake of the marriage… that’s not keeping the commitment.
Wow. This kind of situation is so much more than this, though. Look, I don’t disagree with Dan’s answer. I also think it’s unrealistic to expect a scenario like that to result in forever celibacy as a result (or at least for the length of the marriage itself).
However.
If the solution is indeed discreet on the side “sampling” or whatever, then the lines of communication in the marriage itself are broken. I would expect, in such a situation, that the two would discuss it! It’s kind of obvious if there’s no more sex going on… Now how that plays out, could go a number of ways, but I’d say if the marriage included open, honest, ongoing communication, a mutually satisfactory solution could be reached.
Well, yes, I realize this is probably about 5% of marriages, but really. Isn’t it worth working toward a marriage like that, whether or not it includes lots of mindblowing sex?
@2 — at the same time, I’m a bit leery of this kind viewpiong (“Obligation!!”) when it’s so uncompromisingly stated. i wound up being literally unable to touch a guy after several years of “If you loved me, you’d have sex with me even if you didn’t feel like it.” And once I realized he was perfectly capable of getting off with sex with a person who wasn’t at all enjoying it, that was the end of that. Those lines of communication weren’t open, not when it was presented like that 😛 even if it felt like talking was happening.
(I’m pretty sure that’s not what you were advocating: my point is that it can devolve exactly like that — it certainly wasn’t that guy’s intention to have that happen, and he only understood what had happened years later (to his credit).
BEG, this doesn’t necessarily apply to a situation like the disability/long term sickness one, but from what I’ve read in a bunch of different places, there are many women who simply don’t understand why it’s a big deal to have sex, where they are having sex with their husbands only a handful of times a year, and yet would be appalled to think he’d turn elsewhere, and would definitely not “allow” it. Not a rational response, but there it is.
I’m monogamous, and if I were dying with cancer I would actively want my partner to be living, finding someone new, and moving on, because I would know that there would be no good waiting around for me. I would still see that person staying by my side and continuing to support me, in this new and unfortunate role, as fulfilling his commitment to me. Isn’t that how everyone feels, if they love their partner? It’s crazy that it’s not more socially acceptable.
Now, if there were a good chance that I was going to recover, that would be a more difficult question…
I lived this with my partner in the early 90s when he was dying. He gave me the word “go, I understand, go and get some companionship and have a good time. It’s truly OK.”
I wasn’t in the least interested in getting off with someone else at that point, so I never acted on his gracious offer, which was indeed given out of love.
Instead, I got more satisfaction lying in bed with him, masturbating by myself, while he kissed and held me (and talked dirty to me!), than I can ever have gotten with someone else. While not the hottest and most mind-boggling sex I’ve had in my life, it’s up there at the very top as being by far among the most intimate and personal.
It’s very difficult though for anyone in this situation; my only advice is be 100% honest with each other about it.
I don’t know who this person is, who can support a sick/disabled/dying partner and have time for a piece on the side, but I would like to shake his/her hand. Kudos, sir/madam, for your truly amazing superpowers.
@8 That’s heartbreaking and incredibly touching, brought tears to my eyes, thanks for sharing.
Wait, wait… Where do the “two buttholes” fit in?
There are so many shades of grey when it comes to these things. I think the crappy part is that good people will try to find a way to get their needs met without hurting their partner, be it through masturbation, cheating, whatever. But scummy people will use the “permission” Dan gave them to fuck someone over. Decent people already have decent ethics; sometimes they just need a little guidance. But scummy people? There is no help there no matter how many rules we propose.
@ 12 (and @ the letter’s author), scummy people don’t need Savage Love to excuse their assholery. Cheating on your ill spouse has been around since at least Newt Gingrich, and that predates the advent of “Savage Love.”
Any jerk can seize on any well-meaning proclamation like this and twist it around to suit their own ends. (See: the Bible and most Christians.) It doesn’t make the original proclamation the cause.
IMO, if my partner is sticking around in a caretaking role– if she’s making the tremendous personal sacrifice to honor our commitment when she would be better off elsewhere– then the very least I could do would be getting over whatever jealousy I feel about her piece on the side.
Why do so many people assume that in the event of catastrophic injury, all the consideration in a relationship automatically and forever flows toward the injured? It’s almost like they view commitment as some kind of insurance policy rather than an agreement to mutually care for each other as best as your current abilities allow.
I wonder what other things we can excuse with DS’s logic. “Look, if a little puppy-stomping helps stop me from leaving my girlfriend, it’s ok.” “If fulfilling my need to gun down kids in the park helps me be there for my boyfriend, it can only be a good thing.” “If mailing a big box full of angry pit bulls and fat people to Dan Savage’s house is the only way to keep my relationship going, then it’s perfectly fine.”
It’s been a while since I saw it come up, but I am pretty sure “I have two buttholes” means “This is fake and I am trying to get you to print the phrase ‘I have two buttholes’ for the lulz.”
Wasn’t that even on the Lovecast once?
How about just never getting into a serious committed relationship then? If all your commitments are filled with loopholes and allowances and exceptions, then why bother? My husband is older than me, only 8 years but still older. When I stood up and married him I knew I was signing on for adult-diaper duty, for mopping puke off him if need be, for a lifetime without sex if he ends up paralyzed from the neck down someday. That was what I signed up for, what I entered into willingly and eagerly, a lifetime commitment in better and even still in worse, in sickness as well as health. That’s what a marriage is. It’s a promise to do your best to fulfill all their needs and wants, but also to go without if they CAN’T fulfill all of your wants. And no matter what your eager and mindless organs tell you, sex is a WANT, not a need. It’s not up there with food and water and shelter from the cold. You will not die without sex, and the inability to tell want from need, or to deny yourself a want just because it’s a really really super-big want, does not negate that fact. You can cheat if you want to, but if you’re in a monogamous relationship it does make you an asshole. Every time. Without exception. It is never the least worst choice, because in all of those scenarios where it seems to be, the option to just do nothing is conveniently ignored. Whack off all the time, every day if you must, but keep it to yourself. Or acknowledge that you’re an asshole, without excuses.
@17: We’re all thrilled that you have the moral fortitude and willpower of a nun, but you haven’t actually been there yet. A lot of life isn’t about black-and-white (addicts shouldn’t use drugs) but about grey (well, shouldn’t we give them needles to keep them safe if they do?). I had a 1 year stint of working at an AIDS hospice, as well as a 6 month stint on a cancer ward, and whatever a partner needs to do to stay sane and care for their loved one seems good to me.
A lot of people who do very well with monogamy for decades find the experience of caring for a sick/dying loved one to be much, much more difficult, painful and personally destabilizing than they would have expected if you had asked them before their partner got sick. Becoming a caregiver rather than a lover really does mean giving up a part of yourself for the greater good of your marriage. Some people can do that. Other people find that this loss — when added to the loss of partnership, freedom, finances, friendships, sometimes career — can be more than they can handle. Given that choice, isn’t it better that the dying partner still has five more years of companionship, support, caregiving, tenderness and love rather than receiving a complaint for divorce from their sickbed?
Heh heh heh. You said ‘IHBT’. Heh heh.
Heh-heh-heh-heh-heh-heh-heh. IHBT. Heh.
So what if scummy people misuse Dan’s advice to screw someone over? It’s not as if they wouldn’t have screwed that person over anyway, and it won’t keep anyone from thinking they’re scummy.
I honestly think it’s a little selfish of the sick/disabled partner to hold their healthy partner to a strict monogamy standard. If I was incapable of experiencing physical intimacy because of some health (or otherwise) problem, I’d hardly feel good about making us both go without! I’d already feel terrible about the sudden need to depend on him as a caregiver–but to expect him to just quietly tuck away his sexual desires? No thanks. He can cheat with my blessing, as long as it’s discreet and as long as I have the reassurance (which I imagine I’d desperately need) that he wouldn’t leave me. Just because I’m suffering doesn’t mean he should. If I can’t eat out at a restaurant some night, my husband is still free to eat out with a friend. I may envy his friend, but that doesn’t mean I should keep my husband from enjoying himself even when I can’t. My husband is my equal and his needs are equal to mine. Those needs don’t stop because mine stopped.
And @17, I do think it’s a need. The same way physical touch, feelings of comfort, the release of anger, a sense of security, and love are all needs for humans–myself and my husband included.
Right on Dan! My friend has been taking care of her know-it-all, ungrateful, asshole, quadriplegic husband for 17 years. There is no easy way out of it. She had a discreet fling for about a year…she’s not cheating now but she needed it then. 😉
@17 said, “That’s what a marriage is. It’s a promise to do your best to fulfill all their needs and wants, but also to go without if they CAN’T fulfill all of your wants.”
And I respond with a firm, “Pssh.” As far as I’m concerned, this kind of expectation is bizarre, strange, and unrealistic in the same way that it is bizarre to expect that if you fall in love with one person, you’ll never be attracted to anyone else. When you set up hurdles like this that a person has to jump before making into a successful relationship, you are setting people up for failure.
Now, if YOU want to sign up for never having sex with anyone other than your husband, even if he becomes paralyzed from the neck down, it doesn’t really make a difference to any of us. It’s your life and it’s your marriage. But I object to you deciding that you get to define marriage for everyone else. And that includes you deciding that people don’t get to say, “Wow, I made this commitment to lifelong monogamy, but now that something has happened where my partner can’t ever have sex with me again, it seems it is more than I can handle.” People sign on for things that they can’t actually handle. Not being as strong as you thought you would be doesn’t make you an asshole. It makes you human.
That being said, I don’t understand why anyone would make such a commitment in the first place. I fail to see what purpose is served by saying, “You can’t have sex with anyone else, even if I become so ill or disabled that I will never be able to to have sex with you again.” What good comes from making this kind of a promise? I just don’t see it.
@8, thanks so much for that.
I was reading on a message board a while back about a man who ended up with a very rare type of brain damage where the only things you can move are your eyes (he was healthy guy who fathered multiple kids before an accident). Worse than being a quad, even–at least they can talk and eat and move their heads. He was able to type because of some kind of keyboard technology where you look at and blink for the letter you want to type, one at a time. And that’s how he communicated with the world. (I think he was writing a book too–awesome guy)
He could still feel the sensation of being touched, though I’m not sure if he could get erect or orgasm, it didn’t seem appropriate to ask and he didn’t volunteer the information. So his wife would lie down next to him, put his arms around her, and masturbate. It sounded very sweet. He also had some eye-blinky signals that he would use when they were together to indicate terms of endearment.
For any woman to do something like this and not have a piece on the side (and I don’t think she did, since taking care of him and their kids became a 24/7 job–bedsores and all that) takes some kind of superhero. I don’t think I’d be cut out for that. I would certainly not think to begrudge someone in that position for desiring a partner that could do the work once in a while.
I think he just messed up trying to make Dan say “I Have Been Trolled”.
I remember what a comedian said once: Sex isn’t the only important thing in a marriage, just like the bathroom isn’t the only reason you buy a house. But if the bathroom gets taken away, it’s pretty unpleasant, and after a while you might use another bathroom. It doesn’t mean your house isn’t your home anymore.
@14, I think you hit the nail on the head with the *purpose* of a commitment: “It’s almost like they view commitment as some kind of insurance policy rather than an agreement to mutually care for each other as best as your current abilities allow.” That’s exactly how the “absolute strict interpreters” come across: I had an accident and now I’m putting in a claim on my insurance policy, buster, and you’d better pay up under the policy or I’m gonna sue your ass. These “trad vals” ghouls sure can reduce things to their basics on a hurry.
@17: You say “And no matter what your eager and mindless organs tell you, sex is a WANT, not a need. It’s not up there with food and water and shelter from the cold. You will not die without sex, and the inability to tell want from need, or to deny yourself a want just because it’s a really really super-big want, does not negate that fact.”
Sex may not be a physical need. It is, however (for most people) an emotional and psychological need, something that helps maintain sanity. Many things fall into this category for different people; I need to read, constantly, to keep my mind engaged and sane; and if I were cut off from reading in all forms (no books, no books on CD, no books read to me, no radio for the blind), I’d be dead in six months because I’d shoot myself from the boredom.
I find it interesting that almost everyone who defends the “No No No you promised you would never under any circumstances so you’re an automatic sleaze if you do” perspective is a woman, at least from what I can tell from pronouns used in their posts. Given what we know about the differences in sex drive between the sexes, I think that’s significant.
I wouldn’t judge a “cheater” in these circumstances, because, walk a mile in their shoes, etc.; and I realize I am putting this in front of an audience likely to be hostile to the thought; but why are we not challenging the idea that people will die, simply DIE, if their sexual needs (not just needs but wants) are not met, right fucking now?
If it’s true that the other choice is to abandon the partner, then cheating is the better option, obvs. But we do make sacrifices for our partners, in the happiest circumstances, because we get so much more back. The sacrifice of solo sex is a big one, but is it so much bigger than others that we routinely make? Keeping a loving commitment to a loving partner is worth even the big ones. To me; can’t say for anyone else.
@30 the only people I see saying anything like “people will die, simply DIE, if their sexual needs (not just needs but wants) are not met, right fucking now” are the people setting that argument up as a strawman to knock down. Every part of that statement is a hyper-exaggeration of the original sentiment of “it’s unreasonable to expect all people to go without for decades while caring for their partner who can no longer do for them”
learn to read subtlety some time
Sorry, but this time I respectfully disagree with Dan and with most of you. Sex is not necessary on the same level that food and breathing are. If my partner got sick & couldn’t have sex I’d never cheat, permission or not. I just think it would be wrong. I know this because I’ve been there.
Personally, I think if you cheat on a disabled/dying/incapacitated spouse you’re mostly likely a CPOS anyway.
I don’t understand why people keep saying stuff like, “Sex isn’t equal to food or water or air!” Of course sex isn’t equal to food or water or air. No one saying that it is.
Let’s try something else. I have cyclothymia, which is a mood disorder (a mild for of bipoloar). I take medication to vastly improve my quality of life. Do I need it like I need food, water, air, shelter, etc? Of course not. Does that mean it isn’t important for me to have it? Of course not. Does the fact that you don’t need to take medication a valid argument against the fact that I do? Absolutely not.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s the same thing with sex. If someone with a dying/severely disabled/etc partner needs sex to stay sane, then the fact that they won’t DIE without sex or that YOU wouldn’t need the sex to stay sane doesn’t actually make it so that having sex isn’t important for that person.
This caused me to think about my strong feelings regarding a relationship between Michael Nouri and Roma Downey. I saw a picture of him pushing his wife, Vicki Light, in a wheelchair, with Roma Downey as a “friend of the family” walking alongside. I thought it was sweet and kind of Roma Downey to presumably help a beautiful young woman friend, stricken with Multiple Sclerosis in the prime of her life. I also assumed Roma and Michael were lovers, or at least FWBs.
I was NOT so charmed when Michael Nouri and Vicki Light got a divorce because the relationship between Roma and Michael heated up to the point where it became the primary relationship, as opposed to the marriage. He left the mother of his two children in a wheelchair, incapacitated, to be with his mistress. Nouri and Downey then broke up within a couple of years after the finalized divorce, and she quickly moved in with and then married Mark Burnett (the producer of Survivor). I know, it’s Hollywood, but they are still human beings, and I never watched anything either Nouri or Downey did again.
@30:
Wait a sec. Are you saying people in relationships aren’t supposed to masturbate? Are you a Mormon?
#25: you may be talking about a condition other than ALS, because there are others that produce the same or similar effects, but the bottom line is the same. And every person with the disease or damage can have different levels of affectedness. The British historian Tony Judt, who recently died after a two-year battle with ALS which left him unable even to breathe on his own, gave an interview shortly before his death in which he said that he could still get aroused and orgasm. He didn’t say what his wife was doing to get her sexual WANTS met, but he struck me as the most loving and compassionate and rational of people; presumably he would have understood had she been getting sex elsewhere.
The harsh judgment that some bring to this issue makes others resort to hyperbolic language : “whatever keeps you sane” (as if the lack of access to partnered sex drives people insane.), and so on, which is a shame, because then they are easier to mock or attack.
But if ever a circumstance called for compassion, tolerance and understanding, the condition or caring for a significantly ill or disabled partner for a long period of time is one. It is heart-wrenching to see your beloved in pain or diminished–chronic pain often leads to a personality change, too. The person you are caring for around the clock, helpless, demanding, unable to contribute in most meaningful ways to the relationship, isn’t the person you thought you were going to spend your life with. And “sickness and health” vows aside, most of us don’t envision that degree of sickness.
If some one steps up and lovingly takes care or a partner under circumstances that neither could have foreseen, do you really begrudge him or her that little bit of consolation found in another’s arms?
And how do you know it is “cheating?” How do you know the couple hasn’t discussed the situation and arrived at an agreement?
How can you lump the behavior of a devoted partner who needs to be occasionally taken care of, too, with that of a person like the serial cheater “I will not be IGNORED” person who wrote the previous SLLOD?
@ 9 – It’s nothing more than the superpower of getting by with 3 or 4 hours of sleep a day. You get used to that when you’re caring for a heavily disabled person, so it’s no big deal.
And to those who say sex is not a need… If you’re always thinking and caring about the disabled person, at one point, you do NEED a bit of attention from someone, too, for the sake of your psychological balance. That is, unless you like to play martyr.
Anyone who doesn’t understand how sex can be crucial to someone’s sanity, especially in those circumstances, has too low a sex drive to enter in a monogamous relationship, in my not so humble opinion.
@23- I never said that people couldn’t cheat in dire circumstances, just that ANY betrayal is a betrayal and makes the person an asshole. Weigh that before you make your decision rather than rationalizing it to the point where screwing around makes you a saint rather than an asshole. Want to avoid that? Have a talk with your spouse and get permission first. It’s only cheating if you do it behind their back. Everyone saying “I would never expect fidelity if I were unable to fuck” is missing the point. If you don’t expect monogamy then nonmonogamy isn’t against the rules, so it’s not cheating.
When a person cheats, they cease to be solely responsible for keeping the secret. You may go have an affair to keep your sanity and never ever tell your partner, thus sparing their feelings, but what if the other person involved isn’t so discreet? Now you’ve not only got a spouse you really do love who depends on you for care, but you’ve got one who is terribly hurt by you at the same time. What could be worse than being bedridden and knowing your spouse is missing out on sex? Feeling unable to confront your spouse about their betrayal and your broken heart because you depend on them for care.
So if you simply MUST screw around, just don’t do it behind anyone’s back. CHANGE the rules; don’t break them. It’s only cheating if it’s against the rules.
I like @ 1’s phrase, “reality based relationships.” Taking into account the imperfections of human nature, the tides of life, individual strengths and weaknesses, biology, and countless other factors, it is irresponsible to the point of insanity to stomp around saying, “marriage is this,” or “commitment means that.”
Somebody who is getting some-on-the-side without their partner’s consent is Cheating. Getting some-on-the-side with the permission of their partner is Not Cheating, period. The rest is hypotheticals, hair-splitting, and voyuerism. It is not necessary to have an opinion on the morality of a situation that does not involve one’s self.
I value honesty and trust, therefore I value relationships that start with clear and caring communication about what both people need in order to be healthy, happy, and whole. If other people prefer a different approach, to each their own.
And if you really want to feel morally superior to a cheater, try MLK.
Will I die without sex? No.
Will I die from being waterboarded every day for the rest of my life? No.
Will it make the world better if my partner needlessly suffers while I suffer? No.
What kind of person uses as the standard for their life “it’s fine if it only tortures me but doesn’t kill me?”
@17 @32 – You should accept the fact that what isn’t a need for you may be a need for someone else. Your libido isn’t defining everyone else’s. How long can you go without sex without getting antsy? How often do you masturbate? You can’t speak for others who are unwilling to subject themselves to years of no sex.
I think sex is a part of a loving relationship, and if it is absent, something is wrong. If that something was me, I would give my partner permission to seek it elsewhere. It’s fine and dandy to hold the “only me, ever” line, but when there actually isn’t any “you” in the picture, you’re living in a fantasy. Yes, it’d be nice if people didn’t need sex, and if love was enough. But the reality is, that for most people, it isn’t. This isn’t a Disney fairy tale, it’s real life, and if you are unwilling to negotiate around sex, you’ll probably be lied to. Then, you can find out he’s cheating, leave him, and be the bitter divorcee on her high horse. Is that worth it? Is holding a hard line worth the destruction of your marriage? If it is, perhaps you’re both better off with someone else.
Love is not about ownership. It’s about loving the other person enough to value their happiness as high as your own. They are unhappy? Help them fix it. If that takes giving them permission to get their rocks off with someone else, and they still love you and want to be with you, consider it seriously. You can still make rules around it, like condoms only, no L-word, etc. But you do have a duty to keep them happy.
If you enter a relationship without considering the ways it could pan out you’re a fool.
When things were getting serious with my partner, when we knew it could be lifelong, I thought very hard about his being 23 years older than me. I knew that the time would come when he would be old and ill and I would have to care for him. I decided that if this was the price of admission, I would pay it.
That time is now. Monday is our 35th anniversary. I’m 54 and he’s 77, disabled after a stroke and years of chronic back pain. I take care of him (including bedpan duty) and it’s a pain in the ass sometimes. But I never resent it. Not just because I signed on for this with my eyes open, but because I love him. That’s why we’ve stayed together so long, and it gives me great satisfaction to care for him.
Oh, yes. Sex. It’s been nonexistent between us for some years now. I side with Dan, that if cheating is what it takes to keep you sane and caring for your partner, cheat! Discreetly. I haven’t much. I tried seeing an escort some time back, but it didn’t work out well. But I’m lucky in that, while for most men jacking off to internet porn isn’t enough to substitute for partnered sex, for me it is. Barely. It scratches the itch, and keeps me here doing what I have to. But if that’s not enough for you, do what you have to.
Also, I think it is telling that those who have some first-hand experience with the really real part of reality based relationships [@8, 18, 42] are the ones who judge not. I hope if I am ever in your folks’ shoes I should walk so well.
@37 I usually read Slog on weekends, one topic after another, and I’ve been reading the comments you made on various subjects throughout the week; I just wanted to thank you for the thoughtful, wise prespective that you bring into the discussions, it’s a pleasure to read your comments.
@42, thanks for sharing that with us…
An open relationship would solve this problem easily.
Which is not to say that if I was the partner without the ability to have sex, that I wouldn’t miss that type of affection/connectedness and the ability to get him off sexually.
Dan Savage, Western Regional Chair for the Agenda, lays down the law again.
When it all comes down to it, it’s simply about control…control of the sexual agenda.
The GenX morality is about enforcing a code…a code set up to benefit the insiders, and to control anyone who goes up against it.
@11 wrote: Wait, wait… Where do the “two buttholes” fit in?
Easy: The writer expected Dan to rip him or her a new one.
@ 37 – I’ve been called a few things on slog that weren’t exactly along the line of “thoughtful” and “wise”, so thanks! (Just hoping you weren’t being sarcastic…)
@ 44 What I said @ 49, which was not, of course, in answer to myself @ 37.
It’s really all about forgiving each other’s “weaknesses” because we love each other.
If an outside relationship validates your masculinity/femininity, then you’re withholding the validation of your sick partner’s masculinity/femininity your fidelity to your marriage provides. People are entitled to know if they’re with someone who will reserve that hypocrisy for him/herself.
@49 You *are* thoughtful and wise, Ricardo, no sarcasm here!
(…and none intended in the other comment, either, IMO)
No answer Dan gives will magically fit all situations.
The act of staying and taking care of your sick, disabled, or dying partner is the most loving act possible. However, in some situations, the total honesty of asking permission would just layer hurt on hurt, and is really not the best choice.
If someone can manage maintain a piece on the side discretely without taking away from their loving act of care-giving with their primary partner, more power to them. I’m just not sure where they’d find time for it.
Dan’s advice is fine, practicable enough. But in the end the emphasis on sex gets old. It’s just not that important to me anymore – jacking off is quite fine, thanks. I feel no compulsion to imagine all the far off scenarios where I would feel justified having sex outside of my relationship. I just don’t care, I guess.
@49 Absolutely, I mean it from the bottom of my heart!
@54 And thank you to you too Canuck, representing Canada with style, girl!
Hola, takes.a.hike! I’m not sure the Canadians appreciate it, but thanks! And love your avatar…
For those of you making the need not want argument, does that mean you consider human interaction a mere want? Because technically you won’t starve or suffocate without it, but studies have shown you will go insane. Intimacy is a need. For some, particularly under times of intense stress and fear, its a need that requires a physical expression. If that helps them recover their emotional energy enough that they can better care for their ailing partner, then I for one won’t demand they starve themselves to suit my ideal of fidlity.
Yeah, I’m not really feeling this argument where people who are struck with disability or illness are required to become saintlike beings who must gratefully allow their partners to go off and fuck other people (or get dumped).
The sick or disabled party lost the ability to have sex and be intimate as well, but no one is expecting them to go crazy without this ‘need’. Even thought their loss of intimacy comes on top of a disability or illness.
The number of people (especially women) that are abandoned by their spouses at the first sign of ‘for worse’ is staggering and in the case of say, cancer patients, is known to lessen the sick spouses change of survival.
But seriously. Don’t let that get in the way of your need to get some.
@ 54 and 57 – You got me blushing – Now that’s a feat!
And Canuck – Even if Canadians don’t appreciate it (although they should), you know they’re too polite to actually complain LOL.
@ 60 Having cared for a dying boyfriend, I can say this might be a valid viewpoint in theory, but it doesn’t hold up in practice. Not if you have a sex drive.
In fact, it seems that you expect the caretaker to become saintlike. That’s preposterous.
My BF lost all desire for sex as he got sick. This happens when people are really ill, you know. He wasn’t making a sacrifice by going without sex.
Being the best human being I ever met, he realized that, for me, going without sex would be a huge sacrifice, one that I couldn’t pull off without either going crazy or growing resentful. While I was willing to do every effort I possiibly could to care for him, HE always drew the line at “sacrifice”. That’s because he was the best human being I’ve ever met, and he understood that his illness didn’t make him the center of the universe.
The outside sex had nothing to do with my feelings for him. Although I desired sex and intimacy with him until the day he died (I still think about it 14 years later), sex had become an impossibility. In order to be able to always support him, I needed to vent, and a little visit to the bathhouse every other week was the best, quickest way to relieve all that pressure, to satisfy my need for some form of attention (I’m not the martyr type, so I don’t get off on people praising me for my self-sacrificing) and to give me the energy to continue. Simple, quick, and no biggie for either of us. If I hadn’t done it, I wouldn’t have been able to stay until the end, period.
The caretaking partner is also a victim of the disease, in many ways. If you don’t “feel” that, well, maybe you live in Disneyworld or something, but in those situations, as I discovered, your ideals quickly get thrown out the window and you start living in reality. And you do everything you can to make it a bit less ugly, for your partner and for yourself.
And that’s how you manage NOT to abandon your partner at the first sign of “for worse”.
@60:
That’s what advice like Dan’s is trying to mitigate. If those spouses have physical needs that their partners can’t meet, and they can discreetly get them met elsewhere, perhaps they won’t abandon their spouses at all. Perhaps they’ll be with them the entire time, and be a kind and gracious partner to them the entire time.
@62 Wow, Ricardo, what a story. You put a real face on exactly what Dan is talking about: That by finding an outlet elsewhere (and that’s obviously what it was, an outlet, not a romance) you were able to be there for your boyfriend without resentment. To me, that’s huge…because as awful as it would be to be dying, I imagine seeing resentment in your lover’s eyes would make an already awful situation even worse. I’m really sorry for your loss.
Canuck, I’m always proud to count myself as sharing citizenship with you. You are a great ambassador of all things polite, liberal and funny (in an odd sort of way), which is Canada in a nutshell.
Ricardo, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I have tears in my eyes. I would hope, if I ever go through something like this, to be able to manage it with your grace, love and wisdom. Even 14 years later, your love is apparent. May the kindness, love and loyalty you showed to your partner be repaid to you tenfold.
@ 64 – “I imagine seeing resentment in your lover’s eyes would make an already awful situation even worse.”
You nailed it again. The only thing that really counts in those situations is that your sick partner never, ever feels that s/he’s “just a burden” to you. I’m very happy to have managed to avoid that. He deserved all the love I could give him.
And as for my loss… well, it’s been a long time, and I’d rather think about it as “I had 3 wonderful, loving years with the most wonderful man on Earth” before things got heavy. That can’t be taken away from me, and it’s a lot more than most people ever get.
@ 66 – Thanks
Oh Ricardo, you are a wise soul, and a great example. I’m so glad you had the time you did with your guy. You are a sweetie pie.
Canadian Nurse, my husband like to tell people he married me as a public service, so no one else would have too…isn’t he hilarious? And I’m going to overlook that “polite” thing you said, as I can only assume we aren’t well enough acquainted… 😉
(Hopefully remedied by Slog Happy North one of these days???)
@ 69 – Rather than “being polite”, I’d say you have a way to elegantly formulate even the harshest realities, so that people of opposite views don’t feel offended, but still understand your viewpoint clearly.
And yes, your husband is side-splittingly hilarious… (heavily sarcastic tone)
For all those who say that sex isn’t a need… well, neither is absolute sexual monogamy.
While I’ve never been sick, I was physically incapacitated for several months, to the extent that I needed my girlfriend to help with certain day-to-day functions. And the whole time, I felt so guilty that I was being such a bother to her, and the only thing that made me feel better was the knowledge that my disability and thus her burden was temporary. My girlfriend was happy to help– she never complained or made me feel bad. That feeling of guilt originated from within.
Were I permanently disabled, to the extent I couldn’t have sex anymore, I imagine that guilt would be overwhelming. I would be desperate to find some way–any way– to contribute something to our relationship, to do something to help alleviate the massive burden my existence had placed on my girlfriend. Getting over some jealousy would be such a minor thing compared to all she would be doing for me.
This is what I don’t understand about the “traditional values” people. If they were injured, they would expect their partner to ceaselessly care for them– but they wouldn’t be willing to do anything to help alleviate some of that burden?
My boyfriend was also physically incapacitated for several months, and I cared for him while he recovered. I had to do everything for him, and was on call 24-7 for a few weeks during the worst time. I didn’t care for him grudgingly — I love him and I would do it again in a heartbeat. But it was very wearing.
He completely lost his sex drive, and I badly wanted sexual contact with him because he was still the man I loved and was attracted to. It was a difficult thing to deal with, and our ordeal went on for a relatively short period of time. It never even occurred to me to look for something on the side, but again, it was a short-term situation.
I find it hard to imagine what caregivers who do it for years must go through; our relationship changed in an instant from sexyfuntimes to his total dependency on me, and both of us had to adjust to that. Willingly caring for someone who needs you IS the highest expression of love, and absolute sexual fidelity seems like a small thing alongside that. If he had been permanently disabled, I would have stayed and cared for him without a second thought, because I love him and want to be with him. But I’ll bet he would have eventually told me he didn’t mind if I had sex outside the relationship. I’d do the same for him.
not that anyone will read this, but I want to bring up something else Dan has said (too lazy to go find an exact quote): if sex is this tiny, unimportant thing that we can’t complain about when a partner withholds, then it should not matter if we do this unimportant thing with others. to those arguing that sex is not a “need,” the implication is that it’s not very important to one’s emotional and mental health. if that is the case, then it shouldn’t be a big deal if you do this unimportant thing with someone else, right? right?
OR it is a big deal, and sexual intimacy is a huge contributor to long-term mental health–obviously not something you “need” in the strictest sense of the term, or something that you must have every x days/weeks/months in order to be happy, but something that contributes to your general health and well-being. in that case, it is cruel to demand that people who are in supposedly monogamous (actually celibate) relationships to go without for years or decades at a time. when a relationship becomes indefinitely or permanently nonsexual, then I think that we have a right to seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere, though of course not to the extent that we disrespect our primary partner or degrade that relationship.
I can’t imagine expecting my partner to suffer along with me if I became ill or disabled. Love is about so much more than just sex. My partner is just that a partner. He and I enjoy talking, cooking together, and so many things other than just sex. But we love to make love. If I were to no longer be able to share that with him I would hope that he would find a way to take care of that need and still enjoy all that we could together.
I think the person who is ill or disabled should learn to not be so selfish to forse thier partner into a care taker role and then also deny them the release of sexual pleasure. I don’t even consider it cheating if everyone can just be honest.
I don’t remember where I read this (might even have been Dan), but I read that sex is the most SYMBOLIC act ordinary people engage in. It has such emotional power, and enfolds so much into itself. How you feel sexually about yourself, your partner, and the two of you. How those feelings turn into, well, fucking. How you react to attractive strangers, or even friends. What you’re willing to do with them if they’re agreeable, if you dare, or even just fantasize about them if they’re not or you’re scared to ask. And most important, how breaking a sexual pact can symbolize breaking the entire relationship, and bring it about.
And if sex with your partner becomes impractical, temporarily or permanently, that has a profound effect on your relationship, what it means to you, what it symbolizes. What that effect is no one can decide but the two of you.
I read somewhere (not on the back of a crisp-packet, in a book on the sexual problems of the disabled) that where someone severely sexually incapacitated gives permission to a partner to get some elsewhere, only about 10% of the partners stay. The overwhelming bulk of the other 90% start a serious affair with the person they choose to have sex with, and it takes priority.
I wish I had numbers – even vague ones – for the outcomes of other possibilities. I do believe, however, that (whether taken or not) permission to go outside the main relationship for sex is eventually offered by most sexually incapacitated people. Maybe I just made that up.
My first thoughts about this are sorrow and rage, but then… um. We shouldn’t be wilfully moronic and pretend that permission (when it is granted, as it isn’t always) to have sex with other people doesn’t carry a risk of relationship collapse. Of course it does – the problem is that in this case the one who can’t get up and walk away sees the other get up and walk away. What difference does it make whether the probability is mis-estimated? It makes some, but it’s hard to assess. Let’s not admire carers for their self-sacrifice and disregard the self-sacrifice of the cared-for. They shouldn’t be infantilised and denied the burdens of the choices they can still make. They really may prefer this way of ending a lover’s misery to trapping them in a sacrifice they feel disentitled to stop. Once caught in that kind of trap, staying can be a self-destructive nightmare. I feel that I’m standing on a precipice here, and I have serious vertigo (not joking – this image evokes unmanageable terror in me).
For those people who don’t give permission, are the chances better? Does an unfaithful partner limit his or her commitment to extra sexual relationships in response to the refused permission? It’s not only faithfulness that is measured and weighed according to private rules – unfaithfulness is too.
One last thought: people who are, or were, trying to support a partner who is seriously incapacitated is, despite some previous comments, not exactly CPesOS, whatever the rules. If actually sustaining the relationship is so damned hard if sex is happening outside it, or across it, that doesn’t have to be proof that the relationship must be preserved at any cost, and therefore permission should not be given (or taken). It may only show just how great a sacrifice IS being demanded – and it isn’t necessarily less, even though it may be more consistently borne, if the sacrifice is being demanded on terms that actually do go on and on and on.
Sometimes life can be a faithful hound, and then you die. And sometimes it’s not.
My father has been taking care of my mother, who’s basically been an invalid for the past 5 years. He’s described it as “a living nightmare” in quiet moments alone with me. She was diagnosed about 15 years ago, and she withdrew, emotionally, from the marriage, years before her symptoms got really bad. I think it’s a tiny fucking miracle that he didn’t leave her when the shit hit the fan. To top it off, he’s a very healthy, strong man, who looks closer to a very hale 40 than the 59 he currently is.
He stays by her side, taking care of all of her needs. In my opinion he is a goddamn saint.
And if he decided to get laid on the side, I wouldn’t think any less of him.
For all of you people preaching the black and white “all cheaters are assholes” screed, you can all go fuck yourselves. You’re preaching this now because you’ve never watched someone you love slowly degenerate into a pathetic shadow of their former selves. You don’t know what it takes to take care of someone who’s dying, who has no hope of recovery. If you had even a smidgen of understanding of what that takes out of a person, you’d have a lot more compassion than self-righteousness in your tone.
@76, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Certainly, it’s sad if 90% of people given permission to have outside sex then abandon their incapacitated partners … but maybe they only won that permission because they were obviously halfway out the door anyway. As you say, without stats on how many people abandon their incapacitated partners in general, it’s hard to evaluate causality. Painful topic…
@78: Stats are a little hard to dig up, but they are out there. One study from 1987 reported divorce rates up to 85% in couples where one member had a spinal cord injury.
This paper presents an interesting overview of sexuality and disability, including this comment:
Another real-life case to support Dan’s rule:
My mother has Alzheimer’s, and my father, who is a healthy 75 year-old, has been a full-time caretaker for a woman who is often very unlike the one he married (uncommunicative, paranoid, angry) for almost 10 years now. Mom is now in a nursing facility and Dad is living alone after 45 years of partnership with his wife. He visits my mother at least 2 times every day.
It would be impossible for my parents to have a conversation in which Mom would release Dad from his vow of monogamy in their marriage. She is in no state to give consent to anything. But it has been years since Dad has been able to experience intimacy, emotionally or physically, with my mother. (I love my Dad a lot and am willing to talk about almost anything, but, really, I don’t need to know the details.)
He has recently begun dating a lovely woman who understands my father’s commitment to my mother. I don’t know whether they are having sex (again, I don’t need the details), but he has MY wholehearted consent to do whatever he needs in this situation.
76 – Echoing what EricaP said, the fact that whatever percentage of relationships in which the non-disabled partner has an outside partner fail does not indicate that the outside partner is the cause. Correlation is not cause. What % of disability affected relationships *without* an outside partner fail? I’d guess a similar amount.
People that experience big tragedies tend to divorce. The death of a child is often followed by divorce, as is severe financial difficulties and being the victim of violence. People don’t do the “for better or for worse” part of marriage very well.
It’s such a difficult scenario. Heartbreaking and terrifying. If I became completely unable to satisfy my partner’s physical needs, I think I’d let them go. I would feel awful holding on to them knowing how much of a burden I’d be, and knowing that I couldn’t please them physically. At the same time, the thought of them being romantically or physically intimate with another person scares the shit out of me. There’s no way around it. I would have to come to terms with relationship collapse. I would cry and be depressed. But I wouldn’t resent them for going. People have needs. The universe moves on.
#8 WOW, you are amazing! Big hugs=). All the toxic hater here would do well to re-read your post! And while tht worked for #8 it wouldn’t work for many others. I think someone staying on after something bad like that is a hero and deserves some side action if they want it.
I was thinking about these situations last night during a bout of insomnia. How the ideal is to discuss opening the relationship rather than cheating, but why it’s no always possible. I think I’ve realised that it’s probably a age/culture thing. Anyone I would marry would have already had the open/closed relationship conversation with me. Even if we decided closed, the concept of an open relationship would still be something we’d both be conversant with. We have the vocabulary, we know some decent resources and have friends who’ve gone down this the path before us.
I don’t think my parents would even know what an open relationship is, or how someone could have a loving open relationship. It would be much kinder to whichever of them was sick if the other just had a discreet affair rather than having to start these sorts of discussions in their sixties or seventies. They never needed the skill set to manage multiple sexual/romantic connections, and so it would be too much for them to manage. Obviously, there must be septuagenarians that have developed the tools to manage open relationships, but there are probably fewer of them than there are 20-30 somethings who’ve worked this through.
This is a bit late in the conversation, but since I stumbled upon it on a search, I’d like to share my personal experience. I was 19 when I met my husband and he was 26. I was a virgen and he was my life. I finally acquiesced to becoming his wife at 25 and two beautiful children quickly followed back to back. At the time we moved to a different state, with no family, two babies and starting a business. Barely two years into the marriage my husband cheated on me with a co-worker. I was beyond devastated. The fallout was cataclysmic. When I found out I fell apart and was so destroyed I tried to commit suicide, a desperate act diametrically opposed to my moral and personal values. I lost my mind, my business I worked so hard to start, my home, my self esteem….Everything. This man I loved and adored almost destroyed me with one single act of selfishness. Fast forward two years later and my beloved was diagnosed with MS (multiple sclerosis for the uninitiated) the aggressive type and were floored to learn he had actually suffered from symptoms since his early 20’s. I was 30 and he was 37, we were at the prime of our lives. I stood by him but my resentment and anger over the affair never abated. It took a long, long, long time before I could come to terms with it. At first I refused to abnegate my obligations to our marriage, I reminded myself and him that when we married we vowed “for better or worse, in sickness in health, until death do us part”. I reassured him consistently that we weren’t going through anything different than any other couple would go through if they stayed together long enough; the only difference was that we were going through it younger. Fast forward another 13 years, a diabetic son, many relationship adjustments, heartbreak, compromises, medical appointments and any number of petit deaths and add to it 10 long, long, lonely years without sex or intimacy. Add to that also his being confined to a wheelchair, unable to move his hands well, in constant pain, under heavy medications and undergoing cognitive and personality changes. The burden of caring at times was too much to bear. Having had raised a brother with profound cerebral palsy and a lifetime of caring for others as a nurse, I understood only too well what he was going through. As for me, I grew sick of the sick. My second home became the spinal cord clinic at the VA hospital (he’s a veteran) a most depressing and gutwrenching place to be. But I love my husband, he was my first and only love. Two years ago an old high school sweetheart tracked me down and as you might guess, I placed myself in a compromising position to fall into an affair. Well not exactly fall, more like tempted; but I realized even then, that I was making a conscious decision to cheat on my disabled husband. But after 10 heartwrenching years of carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders, it was nice just to have someone consider me….care for me… heck acknowledge I was a human being; not a nurse, a counselor, a mother, financial fiduciary, therapist or saint. Just me…a woman…a person…trying to do the best she could with the lousy cards she was dealt. He never needed any nor asked anything of me and accepted and understood my circumstances. He held me up at times I was sure I would not make it. He reassured me that my husband’s belligerence and anger at me was only an extension of his illness and he made me realize that before I was all of those things I mentioned I was first…a woman. For the first time after 22 years of devotion and love to my husband and 13 years after his terrible betrayal, I fell for another man. Ironically, it saved my husband from having to spend the rest of his life alone , bitter and afraid in a VA nursing home. Its been a year since I began my affair and every passing moment my husband’s MS takes him from me inch by precious inch. I cry myself to sleep at night when I realize that for as bad as it has been, the worst is yet to come. If you have never had to see a loved one just slip away from you bit by bit, if you have never tried to comfort someone you can’t even hug because your tender touch augments their pain…then believe me when I say, it is an indescribable torment…a death of a million cuts. Yet, there it is…this immoral thing…this extramarital affair…an adulteress and her lover …there trying to make this somehow better. I know people will say, that’s what you signed up for and indeed I know I did. I’m only 42 and I’m a married widow. I’ve been mourning the death of my marriage for a very long time now. I would never phantom adding insult to an already demoralized, broken military man’s ego by asking if its ok to have an affair. I am discreet and could never, ever deliberately demean my husband’s manhood in that manner; I know he would consider it merciful not to know. I confided in a sister about my affair and she was less than understanding. Its ok, no one knows but someone who has been there. But what really bothers me is that in the deepest of my heart I know that if the roles were reversed my husband wouldn’t have stuck around to deal with it…and no one would have blamed him. My other partner has bravely stepped in and has filled the gaping, glaring void that MS took away from me. For that I respect, admire and love this man as I once did the man who wronged me so verily and who I now care for so unwaveringly. If there is something to be judged about that then let it be this…in this imperfect world, filled as it is with these imperfect beings…it is those that humble themselves before that inevitability and try to be better than themselves…that need a compassionate nod. I’m not advocating adultery; understanding something is not excusing it…it is simply understanding it….flawed humans that we are. Encouragement to all of those that carry these burdens to the bitter end.
This is a bit late in the conversation, but since I stumbled upon it on a search, I’d like to share my personal experience. I was 19 when I met my husband and he was 26. I was a virgen and he was my life. I finally acquiesced to becoming his wife at 25 and two beautiful children quickly followed back to back. At the time we moved to a different state, with no family, two babies and starting a business. Barely two years into the marriage my husband cheated on me with a co-worker. I was beyond devastated. The fallout was cataclysmic. When I found out I fell apart and was so destroyed I tried to commit suicide, a desperate act diametrically opposed to my moral and personal values. I lost my mind, my business I worked so hard to start, my home, my self esteem….Everything. This man I loved and adored almost destroyed me with one single act of selfishness. Fast forward two years later and my beloved was diagnosed with MS (multiple sclerosis for the uninitiated) the aggressive type and were floored to learn he had actually suffered from symptoms since his early 20’s. I was 30 and he was 37, we were at the prime of our lives. I stood by him but my resentment and anger over the affair never abated. It took a long, long, long time before I could come to terms with it. At first I refused to abnegate my obligations to our marriage, I reminded myself and him that when we married we vowed “for better or worse, in sickness in health, until death do us part”. I reassured him consistently that we weren’t going through anything different than any other couple would go through if they stayed together long enough; the only difference was that we were going through it younger. Fast forward another 13 years, a diabetic son, many relationship adjustments, heartbreak, compromises, medical appointments and any number of petit deaths and add to it 10 long, long, lonely years without sex or intimacy. Add to that also his being confined to a wheelchair, unable to move his hands well, in constant pain, under heavy medications and undergoing cognitive and personality changes. The burden of caring at times was too much to bear. Having had raised a brother with profound cerebral palsy and a lifetime of caring for others as a nurse, I understood only too well what he was going through. As for me, I grew sick of the sick. My second home became the spinal cord clinic at the VA hospital (he’s a veteran) a most depressing and gutwrenching place to be. But I love my husband, he was my first and only love. Two years ago an old high school sweetheart tracked me down and as you might guess, I placed myself in a compromising position to fall into an affair. Well not exactly fall, more like tempted; but I realized even then, that I was making a conscious decision to cheat on my disabled husband. But after 10 heartwrenching years of carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders, it was nice just to have someone consider me….care for me… heck acknowledge I was a human being; not a nurse, a counselor, a mother, financial fiduciary, therapist or saint. Just me…a woman…a person…trying to do the best she could with the lousy cards she was dealt. He never needed any nor asked anything of me and accepted and understood my circumstances. He held me up at times I was sure I would not make it. He reassured me that my husband’s belligerence and anger at me was only an extension of his illness and he made me realize that before I was all of those things I mentioned I was first…a woman. For the first time after 22 years of devotion and love to my husband and 13 years after his terrible betrayal, I fell for another man. Ironically, it saved my husband from having to spend the rest of his life alone , bitter and afraid in a VA nursing home. Its been a year since I began my affair and every passing moment my husband’s MS takes him from me inch by precious inch. I cry myself to sleep at night when I realize that for as bad as it has been, the worst is yet to come. If you have never had to see a loved one just slip away from you bit by bit, if you have never tried to comfort someone you can’t even hug because your tender touch augments their pain…then believe me when I say, it is an indescribable torment…a death of a million cuts. Yet, there it is…this immoral thing…this extramarital affair…an adulteress and her lover …there trying to make this somehow better. I know people will say, that’s what you signed up for and indeed I know I did. I’m only 42 and I’m a married widow. I’ve been mourning the death of my marriage for a very long time now. I would never phantom adding insult to an already demoralized, broken military man’s ego by asking if its ok to have an affair. I am discreet and could never, ever deliberately demean my husband’s manhood in that manner; I know he would consider it merciful not to know. I confided in a sister about my affair and she was less than understanding. Its ok, no one knows but someone who has been there. But what really bothers me is that in the deepest of my heart I know that if the roles were reversed my husband wouldn’t have stuck around to deal with it…and no one would have blamed him. My other partner has bravely stepped in and has filled the gaping, glaring void that MS took away from me. For that I respect, admire and love this man as I once did the man who wronged me so verily and who I now care for so unwaveringly. If there is something to be judged about that then let it be this…in this imperfect world, filled as it is with these imperfect beings…it is those that humble themselves before that inevitability and try to be better than themselves…that need a compassionate nod. I’m not advocating adultery; understanding something is not excusing it…it is simply understanding it….flawed humans that we are. Encouragement to all of those that carry these burdens to the bitter end.