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Then after about 7 years, you got to replace the battery at about $10K.
Except the execution on the Volt is far, far better-five discrete modes of propulsion if I remember correctly. And it has a trunk.
I’m waiting for an anti-matter powered car.
Cool for 1969, but why did GM attempt to steal the Ford Maverick body?
Note that this is a Stirling engine; i.e. an EXTERNAL combustion engine. The particularly interesting bit there is that, other than the combustion chamber, the engine isn’t particularly linked to any specific type of fuel. Gasoline, diesel, natural gas, dried leaves; whatever.
@1
Depends on the car. I think a Prius battery is maybe 2,000$.
The average american car is scrapped after 5 years. That would be two years before you need a new battery…
Everything old is new again.
@3
But you’d better be sure not to collide with a matter-powered car – you could take out the planet.
The Volt is a joke and a half. It’s purpose on earth is to attract government subsidies. Not unlike ethanol and biodiesel, in fact.
The real work is being done on super-high-efficiency gas and diesel engines. There’s nothing stopping the widespread availability of 60 MPG cars, or even more if there was a market, except greed — not greed of the car companies, who are merely meeting demand — but of our fellow citizens, who DEMAND THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to drive a 300-horsepower, 6000-pound car to get a quart of milk at the store.
@10
The “All Americans want to drive Hummers” rhetoric is old as all living fuck. People will buy high-MPG cars when they’re cheap enough and can move along as adequately as existing cars that get 35 or 40mpg. MPG sells today and has for years. You’re talking out of your ass.
@11 absolutely true. I love my 40+MPG Jetta Sportwagen Turbo Diesel. It gets awesome mileage (I’ve done 48+ on the highway if I want to go 60-65) and it drives like a true German car. If I need to pass someone, the turbo kicks in and zoooom. Add in the fact that it has more storage space than a lot of SUVs and it’s a pretty kick ass car. Oh, and it starts at about $24k. Not super cheap, but not luxury territory either
Life would be so much more pleasant if the only problem associated with automobile use was the fuel it requires.
@11, no, I’m talking out of my experience at the store, where the parking lot is always full of Yukons and Expeditions. Seriously, the parking garage of Whole Foods or Metropolitan Market is like a comedy routine of bumbling supertrucks.
There ARE high-mileage cars, but they never even get a look in at the American market, because the companies that sell them know they won’t sell. If they do sell them, they change the engine to give it American-style freeway power and cut the mileage by as much as HALF.
Case in point: the new FIAT 500. In the normal diesel version it gets 55 MPG. In the version that’s hitting the streets in the US soon it gets something like 30-35 MPG. That’s a freaking JOKE for a minicar; it’s not really any better than a big American boat like the new Malibu. And it’s all bullshit based on American’s perceived need to pass cars on the highway at 90 MPH.
You want to talk about Germany? YOU CAN BUY THESE CARS IN GERMANY. But you can also buy hyper-efficient models if you want them. The “City Car” doesn’t even exist in the US as a genre, except for the SmartCar, which took ten years to get here, in a screwed-up version, and is not a huge success. There are DOZENS of cars available that get high mileage, but Americans will never buy them.
Skoda, SEAT, Citroen — you can’t buy these cars in the US. Even companies like Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai have many models they don’t sell here.
@12, we also have a Jetta TDI wagon. It’s great. For most purposes, it’s too much car, and I wish there were smaller, more efficient options (like the Golf TDI with Blumotion that gets a true 60 MPG in every country in the world EXCEPT THE US) but yeah — if everybody bought a TDI the world would be a better place. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than a Volt.
@14 Yeah, for most people it’s probably too much car. For me and the boyfriend, it carries our hockey gear, snowboarding stuff, etc, which we used to carry around in an SUV that got 16-18 mpg. So, it’s a huge improvement.
You’re right about Germany (and much of Europe), we were there last summer and it seemed like 50% of the cars were TDI or some equivalent. One of the major problems I see in the US is the “safety” issue. People buy a giant tank to be safe and now everyone in a little car is in danger of being crushed by a giant tank, so they have to buy a giant tank to keep their kids safe from the other tanks.
Strangely enough, it’s kind of parallel to the issues with sports these days. No one wants to separate a shoulder or cut their face, so we put everyone in giant pads that become weapons. Now, instead of broken bones and cuts, we have broken brains and spinal cords. Oops.
The other thing we are not going to have in this country is an automated highway system. You know, where cars drive themselves for stretches of the road, which could decrease transit times and reduce congestion? Fnarf is right–it’s not rhetoric, especially in the suburbs. People really need to take their Range Rover to the next highway exit to go through the Starbucks drive-thru. But they will not temporarily give up the illusion of control if it creates a public benefit.
And the whole “MPG wins out” assertion is totally disproved by the fact that the most popular car here is STILL SUVs the F-150
Correction: Polo, not Golf. True 60 MPG by the stricter EPA numbers. Emissions low enough that it’s exempt from the London Congestion Charge.
It’s not a zero emission car if it charges off a coal-powered grid.
The SUV population at Whole Foods just helps point out that Whole Foods is a Libertarian status store, not an alternative to regular grocery stores.
The whole world has been really, really stupid in the way we’ve developed our personal transportation. For example, disc brake road bikes have only started to become popular in the last couple years.
@15, I like your football-uniform analogy a lot. Modern helmets and pads are, in fact, creating worse injuries.
On safety, the perceived safety of giant SUVs is deeply misleading. They are NOT safer. Better in a crash, yes, but not by as much as you might think, and much, much worse at avoiding crashes in the first place. Little nimble cars have quick handling and hard brakes.
I still stand by my original point, which was about the Volt and hybrids in general: they’re the wrong direction. They’re not what other places are doing, and getting better results than us. Even at a company like GM, while the dead-end Volt is being made such a fuss over, their own engineers are working on better and better gas and diesel engines, and other non-power-related improvements, which may never see a dealership, which is sad.
And even in electric cars, the US is not really a participant. Yes, we have a handful of demonstration projects and stuff like Tesla, but none of the dozens and dozens of interesting cars that are available. Citroen C-Zero? Mitsubishi iMiEV? Peugeot iOn? Smart fourtwo electric? Think? Reva? Can’t buy any of them.
@15 and 20,
Not that I know much about football, but does the extra padding also give players the illusion of safety, causing them to hit each other harder with the assumption that their gear will protect them? If yes, the SUV comparison is even more apt. Too many SUV drivers I’ve seen drive like nimrods, and I can’t help but think it’s because they assume they’re protected from the consequences.
@14
What you see at the store is useless in evaluating how the car market in America at large works. If I spent all day in downtown Bellevue I’d think that people are only interested in buying German luxury cars.
@22, why are you so invested in denying the obvious?
The list of best-selling vehicles in America — all of America, not just Bellevue or my grocery store — has three giant trucks on it (Ford F-series, Chevy Silverado, Dodge Ram) and zero high-mileage city-type cars (though some models of the Civic aren’t too bad).
No Smart, no Mini, no Prius, no VW TDI. My conclusion stands.
@21 Yes, absolutely correct.
@22 Although I agree anecdotes don’t define a market, how does the car market work then? I am asking sincerely because you’ve not given an actual alternative viewpoint with facts.
Take a look here, here, here, and here and let me know if MPG is this biggest seller in the US.
@Fnarf
You’re right in part. Citreon and Peugeot and Fiat and others are making some interesting small cars which get good economy and are fun to drive. But none of the companies you mention are even trying to develop a US market. Americans won’t buy the tiny boxes sold in Europe, plus the safety standards here are much higher and make manufacturing more expensive, so they won’t invest in a losing proposition. Particularly when Chinese demand for cars is growing so rapidly, it just doesn’t make sense to worry about the US market for many car companies.
Nor are cars the largest factor causing CATASTROPHIC GLOBAL WARMING IN WHICH CAPITOL HILL TOWNHOMES WILL BE WATERFRONT BY AUGUST. Or, as Al ‘Trust me!) Gore would say ‘We are experiencing a planetary emergency. Which cracks me up every time I think of it, by the way. Power generation for homes and businesses are the source of the majority of what you folks mistakenly think causes global warming. Even assuming that your theories are accurate if we gave up most of what makes civilized life civilized, we couldn’t reverse the process, or even slow it down much. By your own numbers this is true, and we’re just doomed. What a depressing world view.
Really, since none of your dire predictions have come true, and you’ve had to start calling it ‘climate change’ to reflect the lack of-you know-any global warming, when do you folks drop this particular canard? Well, that is when scientists aren’t actually just lying about and playing with the numbers as in England.
In light of that, I’m curious. If someone wants to spend more of their own money on gas to drive an SUV, whether for perceived safety or just because they like them, why is that your business? I don’t like cigarettes and won’t smoke them, but I don’t go around telling others not to. I don’t drink much, but I don’t hang out outside of bars or liquor stores telling others not to do so. Why do the eco nut nazis think they have the right to dictate how others spend their transportation dollar?
One other note-
My F series is 12 years old with nearly a quarter million miles on it and running strong. I bought it with 140,000 on it for $3000 and have spent a whopping $400 dollars in repairs (including oil changes, brakes and so on that are maintanance more than repair) in 4 years of ownership. The F series before that was given to a nephew at 260,000 miles, and he drove it for 2 years before replacing it. The car before that was a Ranger, another extraordinarily well built Ford product.
F series, indeed all of Ford truck lines, sell because they are a solid vehicle that look good and run forever with minimal repairs. In this case, Ford just made a damned good vehicle, and oddly enough people wanted to buy it. When Citreon can say that, they might have a shot at selling cars in the United States.
@26,27 More blather, blather, blather…Climategate…blather…snowing in DC…blather.
@28
More blather …Al Gore is God..blather..the earth is burning up…blather blather..Global warming exists even if the earth isn’t warming.
Have a nice evening.
@29 lulz Al Gore is an eco-opportunist and a coward who I totally blame for not fighting the Bushies during the coup.
It doesn’t take much to respond because you don’t really have much to stand on with respect to global warming. I mean, I don’t really see the point anymore in arguing with ignorami over science they aren’t even willing to listen to, much less understand it.
@30
Coup? Must have missed that over here in reality. I recall an election which Gore lost, whatever the left tells itself in dark conspiracy theories, but no coup d’etat. Oh well, reality is boring at times, I guess, but better than making stuff up in the end.
@31 Oh, yeah reality. Har. That’s funny.
@29
More blather …George Bush is God..blather..the evil left…blather blather..Gays.
Have a nice evening.
“Nor are cars the largest factor in GLOBAL WARMING BULLSHIT SPEAK”
That’s not the argument. Cars are A cause of CO2 emissions that WE WOULD LIKE TO BRING DOWN (I hope?). It’s not a race, or a contest, but the overall goal is to make a 0 emissions car. I doubt very much it will ever happen, because capitalism demands a cyclical consuming powerhouse of a resource waster, but I’m hopeful that one day we’ll create a car that doesn’t continually produce waste at the very least. Smog killed more people than cocaine last year, is that really the world you want to grow up in? I don’t think we need to rip the testicles off anyone who uses oil, but the overall goal should be to use less, or even none of it, because it’s harmful to humans. Though I’m sure you’d love to prove me wrong, take a video of yourself drinking a gallon of gasoline and then tell me how wonderful you feel in a few hours, if you can even speak. If you make it out alive, I promise to never give a fuck about human lungs ever again. Promise.