A couple years ago, when Stranger writers scattered to 31 churches on the same Sunday, I visited Gethsemane Lutheran Church, across the street from the Greyhound Bus station. Pictures in the basement showed a booming congregation from the previous 100 years. But my signature was the first new entry in the guest book in over three months. Only one-quarter of the pews were occupied. The church—and most of the elderly congregation—was dying. And yesterday, I wrote about the First United Methodist Church downtown, which has been converted into a recital hall. Other churches, too, are slated for conversion, such as this one on Capitol Hill, another on Capitol Hill, and one on Queen Anne. Now the DJC reports this:
The congregation of First Presbyterian Church of Seattle on First Hill has taken the first step toward redevelopment of its expansive property overlooking downtown. … The Christian education building, chapel and sanctuary would be razed for the new construction.
First Presbyterian was established in 1869. At its peak in 1940 it had 8,000 members. But, like other urban churches, its membership has declined steeply over the years. It now has about 140 members.
It sounds like the central First Presbyterian Church building will remain, but for whom? Seattle, with the exception of some young folks at mega-churches, is experiencing an attrition of faith that’s leaving large, useful buildings empty. Meanwhile, arts groups and gay groups are searching for space.
Good riddance.
This highlights one of the main reasons I moved here in the first place.
Is your point about the churches as buildings or the churches as people? Because, of your list, at least First United Methodist is still existing and worshipping as a congregation. (They are having their Sunday services at the Charlotte Martin Children’s Theater until their new building is completed)
In the city proper, yes, churches are shrinking and disappearing. Go a few miles out of the city, however, and it’s a completely different story. The religious population has been largely displaced from the city limits, but in the suburbs it seems like religion is thriving…have you ever been to Everett?
The War on Christmas is actually working? So soon? Must report back to HQ! I bet I get a sweet promotion out of this for sure.
So, if we’re so non-churchgoing, why do they get a tax exemption on income and an exemption from property taxes anyway?
Just saying.
The first churches were in people’s homes.
Don’t be too happy. Mainline Protestantism is the source of Civil Rights.
In some cases it has everything to do with finances. That real estate is valuable, and it’s cheaper to just rent space for Sunday services.
Come on, ‘fess up – Mudede wrote this, right? Because Dom wouldn’t get all sappy like this.
What’s happening is that the touchy-feely Protestant churches in the city are drying up, and the boisterous, Bible-humping megachurches in the suburbs are exploding like algae blooms.
You conveniently ignored the NYT article about mars hill; with a church right in downtown that’s grown from 200 to 700 in a matter of a year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazi…
The Protestants need a hook…The Demon Rum? Flappers? Disc Brakes?
Not so fast with the “good riddance”. I don’t see our nation getting any less religious. I’ll take a large diversity of smaller churches over a handful of megachurches. Fundamentalism has an alarming appeal to young people right now.
In the spirit of keeping an eye on your enemies, I think The Stranger should do a piece investigating if smaller, more liberal churches are evaporating under an increasingly strong influence of huge conservative ones.
gethsemane is also tearing down their sanctuary to build a new one.
It’s unfortunate that the large, traditional, largely sensible denominations, like the Presbyterians, are giving way to the radical zombie fundamentalist lunatics. Presbyterians are by and large intelligent and thoughtful; Mars Hill attendees are by and large brick-headed thugs.
It’s probably easier for the teens to saddleback in the relative anonymity of a megachurch as opposed to the smaller, more watchful churches.
Exactly, UF, never forget that whereever two or three are gathered at a spaghetti dinner, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is present.
Unless he’s not.
Being invisible, only the pirates know for sure – at least, the ones wearing the eye patches …
Of course the creepiest, most fundamentalist people I know go to Mars Hill. It makes me so very, very angry that their church is getting more popular by the day.
Churches make the best rave clubs.
@18, who do you “know”.
@20, Mars Hillers are freaky people. Your response to this will prove that I’m sure.
As for the shrinking of churches, than god! Less is definitely more when it comes to religion. Our founding fathers’ vision will finally be realized when rationality replaces the vapid religious based morality when it comes to policy and law. Within a few administrations I hope we can get back to the President not mentioning god during a speech, as G. Washington didn’t.
@7 Mainline protestantism is the pudding that the pill of civil rights has been ground up into…in this country. It has not been the source, just the vehicle.
@21 – “Mars Hillers are freaky people”
Do you really know people that go there? Are they really freaky?
Can anyone explain the appeal of Mars Hill?
I get that people like to turn off their brains and have their master pastor do the thinking, but why do they wanna hear some tubby psycho tell them their neighbors are gonna fry in hayll and the wimmins are birthing machines?
(And that they’re gonna fry like bacon if they don’t turn over 10% of their income, and that’s gross people, not net.)
It’s like the Christofascist flipside of fundamentalist Islamic Wahibism.
Follow up question: What is the world does a self-respecting woman see in the Mars Hill theology?
When I was a wee Methodist, we were required to go see services at a bunch of different churches/religions before we could be confirmed. Catholic, Jewish, Greek Orthodox, etc., etc.
I thought it was fascinating…. but, even at 12, I was 100% creeped out by the mega-church we visited (Willowbrook in the Chicago suburbs). Like Fnarf, I’m sad that the mega-churches are winning out against my old sensible little Methodist church.
My hope is that churches facing dwindling numbers consider truly giving of themselves and developing empty space into shelter for the homeless. And not just classic mat on the floor night shelter, but more supportive shelter and day centers. Here’s the hard part for most churches, though, they feel the need to evangelize as part of their program. Don’t they know you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?
And to all the comments on Mars Hill: Don’t be silly, everyone knows Mars Hill is an insane cancer marketing itself to the ‘enlightened’ youth culture of Seattle. How many campuses does one damn church need?
The Civil Rights movement was pretty much a straight product of the Baptist and other mainstream Protestant church. Vernon Johns, Ralph Abernathy, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Fred Shuttlesworth were Baptists; Joseph Lowery was a Methodist.
@26- probably one in every single neighborhood right?
Debates about theology aside, I just thought it was comical to have a post about the death of urban churches when there’s one that obviously growing. It’d be interesting to understand why the editor looked the other way. It’s also interesting to note that these guys had a huge write up in the nyt; a paper the stranger guys pore over every day. It just doesn’t seem like them to ignore something so glaringly obvious.
@26 And where, with their dwindling financial resources, are they supposed to get the money to run full-time homeless shelters out of their church buildings? Churches rely on offerings from their congregations. Shrinking congregation = shrinking financial resources. How can they afford to host day centers when they can barely afford to keep the lights on?
I figure it’s not so much the crazy mega churches are winning, so much as they’re all that’s left.
Sane sensible people don’t go to church so much these days. That just leaves the crazy to play by themselves, and in undiluted form they have created new churches in their own image.
I’ve been to two weddings at Mars Hill. Both ceremonies stressed that the wife’s role is to submit, submit, submit.
The demographic of Mars Hill kids fits perfectly with the type most likely to join up with cults in the 60s and 70s; not just age but education, social class and religious upbringing. White, middle to upper middle class, some college, and usually not-terribly-enthusiastic Protestant parents. They feel kind of unmoored in their twenties and they gravitate to a confident man who tells them exactly what they need to do.
The thing with a cult phase is that if they don’t careen entirely off a cliff, they outgrow it and get on with their lives. Or Pastor Wonderful gets caught doing what comes naturally to that kind of dude. Either way, not much future for Mars Hill.
Freedom of Conscience=Priesthood of All Believers. It’s just that simple. Mainline Protestants freed the slaves; Mainline Protestants gave women the right to vote; Mainline Protestants founded the public schools. You will note that, as this country becomes less Protestant, it also becomes less free. And I ain’t talkin’ about the Mooslims.
Greg @ 31,
That sounds like a real hoot; perhaps Mistress Matisse could officiate at the next one with a riding crop?
elenchos – it’s a bit of a cliche, so I didn’t say it, but when I was at the Willowbrook service I kept thinking, this is what a cult must be like. A few years later, on the front page of a local newspaper, there was a picture of five hundred people being baptized in the lake on Willowbrook’s campus at one time. It could not possibly have screamed CULT! any louder.
@35Julie,
Chicago, I believe possesses the tallest church spire in the US. It’s on top of the 1st United Methodist Church on Washington St. across from the Picasso sculpture. It is called the “Chapel in the Sky”
A lot of those mainline Protestant churches already give space to gay groups or arts groups (or gay arts groups). When I sang with the now-defunct Seattle Lesbian and Gay Chorus, we rehearsed at whatever that one is on 6th and Seneca (later moved up near Denny to another Protestant church), and we performed at the one up on Broadway. Congregations at all three locations were always very welcoming.
Part of the reason that First Presbyterian is much smaller is because University Presbyterian (still in the city) has become huge–membership of 4,000+ with five services every Sunday.
The reason many of these downtown churches are giving up their buildings is exactly because the money they receive can be used for mission work (mostly feeding and housing the poor) instead of just sitting there empty. Plymouth has a huge low-income housing program. First United Methodist has great plans, and I expect First Presbyterian will, too.
As for Mars Hill, well, go search “homeless” on their (extremely fancy) web site and you’ll find one–count ’em, one–sermon, and nothing about any kind of service.
lark – yes, I used to walk by that church every day on my way home from work. It’s actually pretty neat to see the tall spire next to all the skyscrapers. When I worked late, I loved hearing it chime the hour, echoing across Daley Plaza and the nearly empty streets…
Based on my (limited) experiences with megachurches, it seems like all of their money goes to…
1. Pricey A/V equipment for their stage, and for simulcasting sermons to multiple locations or broadcasting them online (on their high-tech websites).
2. Fancy-but-unnecessary accoutrements like coffee bars in the lobby and arcade machines for the youth group rooms.
3. Huge honorariums for guest speakers who, between “special offerings” and merchandise tables, can make a killing in a single night.
4. Who knows what else, because they are completely opaque with regard to their financial records.
What you won’t see is large amounts of money spent to care for the community, primarily helping the poor.
Megachurches are more interested in providing entertainment value on Sunday mornings than actually doing “the Lord’s work” in the community.
@40 – My cousin’s church also has a (really nice) gym for members. Gym membership is really cheap… if I lived in Indy I would consider getting my name on the church roster just to be able to go….
Hernandez @ 40,
Akshally, shouldn’t it be:
1. Pastor’s salary
etc…
35
Julie, please look up ‘cult’ in a good dictionary.
@43
Normal people use words in the normal way and communicate their point perfectly well without having to speak as if the are regurgitating technical terms they got from a “good” dictionary*. Mars Hill walks and talks and looks and acts like a cult. What else do you need to know?
* I love the “good” qualifier. Pretty much lets you choose any definition you like and reject any you disagree with.
THis is really sad to me. I know a lot of you don’t like religion and I understand why, but faith has done a lot of good in the world, too.
This is no reason to celebrate.
The same thing is happening in Europe. Churches lacking architectural significance are being converted into community centers in Denmark, Sweden, England, and Norway.
Let’s not tear them down, let’s convert them into what they always have been: Community Service Centers: The New and Improved Secular Version!
Nothing against congregations, but this is great news. I’ve always wanted to buy and old church and covert it into my home.
Instead of a giant crucifix above the alter, BIG SCREEN TV!
Perhaps some of the attraction of Mega churches has to do with our societies love for modern technology and instant gratification. Attending a mega church can feel a lot like going to the movies or a concert. My church has a regular weekend attendance of over 1,000, nearly 3,000 on the CE holidays.
First United Methodist is the is the oldest church in Seattle (it was founded by the Dennys & Blaines) and a good case study. After the sale of their building last year, that congregation has been the first in 40 years to break ground on a new church in downtown Seattle. According to their website, at 2nd & Denny they are building “a $38 million facility that will include not only a sanctuary and parking facility, but also an urban outreach center where we can continue our mission to serve Seattle’s urban poor”.
http://www.firstchurchseattle.org/news-a…
News coverage:
Seattle Post Intelligencer:
“After decades of debating, praying and soul-searching, a day some members of First United Methodist Church never thought would come finally arrived Sunday. In a small parking lot behind a fading stucco office building on lower Queen Anne with a peek-a-boo view of Puget Sound, the congregation broke ground for a new church…”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/3799…
Seattle Times:
“With the turn of a shovel, a long-running church controversy was buried Sunday and its congregation’s hopes reborn…”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…