Yay for America’s culture of life!
As I’ve written before, I can understand why some people might support capital punishment, particularly the families of victims. But what I don’t understand is how the same sort of people who do not trust our government to provide health insurance—who warn of “death panels” should “Obamacare” be implemented—trust our government to determine whether somebody should live or die, especially in light of the dozens of death row inmates who have been exonerated over the years.
I dunno, just strikes me as a tad… inconsistent.
It might, perhaps, have something to do with the inclusion of juries in the process. Or it might have something to do with humans being largely inconsistent in their beliefs as a rule. Maybe both.
This might be worse than MLK. Injustice, it happened in front of all of our eyesl
Goldy,
All right. I expressed reservations of Davis’ conviction (see earlier thread). But, regarding consistency, vis-a-vis abortion rights, I’ve always been baffled by those that are pro-choice vs. anti-choice (pro-life) yet against Capital Punishment AND vice-versa against abortion rights & pro Capital Punishment.
For the record, I’m reluctantly pro-choice & reluctantly pro Capital Punishment.
What are your thoughts?
I have at least one Tea Party true believer relative who recently informed me that he now opposes the death penalty for exactly your stated reason — doesn’t trust the government to get it right.
Right, Because mourning families–families in GRIEF–are thinking clearly, with empathy, and are completely consistent. lol.
Also, this is completely consistent… The death penalty is a racist institution, always was, always will be so long as it exists. People just noticed for a few minutes, is all.
The government didn’t decide to kill Troy Davis.
12 of his fellow citizens, including 7 blacks, made that decision.
Waiting for the next GOP to have this travesty cheered.
@3
There is no inconsistency in being pro-choice and against capital punishment. Both stances have to do with respecting the dignity and bodily integrity of citizens. It is wrong to force someone to carry a pregnancy to term if she feels she cannot. The focus of the pro-choice argument isn’t the fetus, it’s the woman carrying it. No one else is forced by law to give of their body to save a life. You couldn’t even be legally obliged to give blood to save your two year old’s life.
Some people believe capital punishment is wrong because of the flaws in the system that allow for the convictions of innocent people, the expense to the system, the lack of efficacy as a deterrent etc… Others believe on a philosophical level that killing people is inherently wrong regardless of the strength of the case against the accused. If you believe strongly in inviolable rights to life, dignity and bodily integrity you are likely to be both pro-choice and against capital punishment.
DNA evidence … would cut down on false positives a lot for the death penalty, but then we’d all have to actually be smart and have a real DNA database of some sort. But neither the left nor right want this … for differing reasons (both naive) …. both very stupid.
The exoneration phenomenon has shown something else, namely that when it comes down to witnesses, it’s very easy for the police to railroad someone, and they often do. It’s pointed out a large scale and ultimately unacceptable flaw in the justice system, especially in the South.
Not a supporter of the death penalty, but Troy Davis should not become a poster child for the anti-DP (heehee!) movement. He was a violent fuck who more than likely did kill that off duty cop.
@9: what is your first ellipse for? I’m just curious, because it looks like you pulled a quote, which would be just weird…
They are not inconsistent. They consistently salivate over human suffering. Force suffering upon brown poor people, who are much more likely to be executed, and force suffering upon any woman who has the nerve to have sex or be raped. They love the bloody spectacle: people they feel superior to suffering needlessly.
@9
I don’t think you understand how DNA is used to convict or exonerate. A database is not needed — they compare DNA samples collected at crime scenes to suspects’ DNA. It’s not foolproof, either. Labs have been known to make serious mistakes.
I have to say that I am kinda for the death penalty, but I don’t want it available as a punishment in the USA. I still kind of have that reptilian “eye for an eye” emotion, but I don’t think that it is possible to limit the DP to just the cases where we are 100% positive. There just are not that many cases where people can be 100% sure of guilt, but there is always a DA willing to go for the death penalty when they are 95% sure. Because it looks good for the voters. When an innocent is killed by the country for a crime not comitted, the very fabric of society dies a little more.
I used to think the death penalty should be available for the most terrible crimes–it just seems viscerally right. The exact same day Troy Davis was executed, so was Lawrence Russell Brewer for the torture/dragging/decapitation death of a black man in Texas. Nobody was standing outside the death house with Amnesty International signs for Brewer. Why? Because most people though Brewer categorically deserved it.
But even with Brewer’s example, more and more, I just don’t believe the state should have the authority to kill one of its own citizens. Toss guys like Brewer into prison for life, allowing the the state power to kill him doesn’t serve justice and can lead to the worst kind of abuses.
In the Bible Moses was given ten commandments, one of which was Thou Shall Not Kill. It doesn’t say Thou Shall Not Kill… except in war, Thou Shall Not Kill… except to execute prisoners, or Thou Shall Not Kill… unless they are collateral damage.
The Bible literalist seem to have an easy time ignoring this one.
Troy Davis’s execution shouldn’t have occurred not just because of his guilt or innocence, but because it is truly unjust sentence. It was selective punishment. There are states in this union that do not have the death penalty. There are murderers who sit in prison under life sentences who methodically stalked and killed multiple people. Sociopaths with little change of repentance. Davis was convicted of killing one man in, by witness accounts, a moment of rage.
There is no model that exists where the death penalty can be applied fairly. Almost all modern nations (Except Japan) have recognized this and have done the right thing.
Goldy, it’s not inconsistent, it’s hypocritical and hypocrisy seems to be the modus operandi for a huge swath of this country. Being pro-death penalty, anti-choice, pro-war, pro-nuclear power, Christian, anti-healthcare reform .. the dissonance is deafening
I’m adamantly opposed to the death penalty, but arguing that Troy Davis was innocent seems like the wrong way to argue against capital punishment. He clearly wasn’t entirely innocent. The bigger question is why his accomplice is free, never charged of a crime. They should both be serving life in prison. Let’s not overstate the case or turn it into another “I’m right; you’re wrong” ideological stalemate.
9
“we’d all have to actually be smart and have a real DNA database of some sort. But neither the left nor right want this … for differing reasons (both naive) …. both very stupid.”
I’d say the left and the right both have fair reasons for opposing this, it’s not their fault you lack the imagination to understand why. I guess you’re just a fiscal libertarian, not a civil one.
Goldy,
You’re right. I too am struck by the inconsistency of Liberals who unflinchingly revel in the wholesale slaughter of the unborn, and clearly believe that the Government should control all things physically or economically relevant to living life, yet either don’t trust the institutions of that same Government when it comes to capital punishment or value the lives of rapists and murderers above all else.
Baffling.
Baffling.
Also, I find it deeply inconsistent that while Liberals find no amount of government spending to be too outrageous, many of them decry the “expense” of capital punishment.
It is inconsistent for Republicans to pretend to be against big government while trusting it to kill only the guilty, and to prevent people from using certain drugs, and to use big government to wage war with an efficiency and righteousness they believe it doesn’t actually have.
But it’s just as inconsistent for Democrats to pretend to value the poor while a Democratic administration is blowing them up by the hundreds overseas. It’s just as inconsistent for Democrats to say they care about the government killing innocent people, while supporting an administration that regularly and violently kills innocent people.
Politics is marketing, not philosophy.