Best side effect ever:
A drug that failed tests as an antidepressant is being hailed as “Viagra for women” after surprising but not unpleasant side effects. In three separate trials, the drug flibanserin did wonders for women’s flagging sex drive despite doing nothing to lift mood. The accidental discovery is akin to Viagra’s—it was originally designed as a heart medicine but failed.
And forgive me if I disagree with “some doctors”:
Some doctors are sceptical about the need for pills to boost female sex drive. For some, reduced sexual interest or response may be “normal”, says Professor Irwin Nazareth or University College London.
Some sex-advice columnists regard the collapse of the female libido in many LTRs to be a huge problem. Letters from boyfriends/husbands and girlfriends/wives whose marriages are on the rocks due to the seemingly inexplicable cratering of the wife’s desire for sex—inexplicable because nothing is “wrong,” i.e. he’s not being a bastard, there are no kids or the kids aren’t toddlers anymore—comprise a huge chunk of the mail around here. Reduced sex drive may be normal but it can also be disastrous—particularly for someone who demands a monogamous commitment from her partner. Want monogamy? You gotta make with the sex. No desire for sex or experiencing a “normal” reduction in sexual interest? Eventually you’re going to get cheated on. Many girlfriends/wives—and some boyfriends/husbands—go through the motions and put out just enough to avoid getting cheated on or just enough to be able to claim the moral high-ground after years of passionless, just-going-through-the-motions sex drives a partner to cheat.
A pill that can restore female libido—for the husband or for some other dude—and make sex a pleasure again will be welcomed by those who value monogamy so highly that they’re willing medicate themselves to ensure it.
UPDATE: I’m afraid to go look in the comments thread—I’m having computer issues (to put it mildly) and wasn’t quite done with this post when it went up and wasn’t able to get back on for an hour after posting to add to it. Oy. Anyway, back to the BBC’s report: some doctors point out that the drug won’t cure “underlying issues,” that the drug won’t “fix a broken relationship or help with looking after the kids or cleaning the house.” For sure: if your partner doesn’t want to fuck you because you’re an asshole or because your partner is completely exhausted and her exhaustion is frosted with resentment because you’re no help whatsoever, no pill is going to make her wanna fuck your ass. She may take the pill and then go fuck someone she isn’t furious with, perhaps, but she’s not going to medicate herself on your account.
And if this was a pill that restored a man’s sex drive or enabled a male to perform we wouldn’t even be debating its merits. We’d be stocking the shelves already and making sure it was covered by Medicare.
@41 I’m not concerned with abuse, I’m concerned with a lazy attitude about female sexuality and libido and that this band-aid adds to that. If Dan is bombarded with people seeking help with a woman’s sex drive, then there is an underlying problem we are not discussing, not an issue fixable with drugs.
Drugs are (for many people) shortcuts to solving real problems. And whatever, that’s up to the individual, but at least we admit what they are and why you use them. We drink coffee because we don’t get enough sleep and we don’t get enough sleep because we keep a tv in our bedroom, etc etc. Caffeine is a shortcut to eating right and working out and organizing our time and going to bed early. But what is the shortcut for this female libido drug? We already put male pleasure as priority and already don’t talk about female sexuality and already characterize women as less sexually active and already tell women not to talk about sex or be demanding in bed. So is this really a supplement to working through our problems in the bedroom or a replacement for dialog?
Perhaps I wouldn’t be as concerned if Dan worded this post differently. Instead of saying “there is an issue with women and sex, I know, I’m a sex columnist. look! a drug to help fix it!” he should have said “here’s something to help get your clit hard when your libido is down.” Because I’m cool with that. And I’d love to take a drug to help me in a slump, esp during these dark and rainy winters. But don’t fucking tell me that my overall issues, and the overall issues of women and sex are fixable, even in the slightest, by this drug. Fuck that bullshit.
There already is an easy way to pop a pill and help female libido–high-dose omega-3 fatty acids. Goddamnit!
I’m surprised nobody has yet said anything about how effective a lovely fuck is for lifting one’s mood. And how when your mood is elevated attending to all the mundane details of good self and relationship care seem more appealing.
good life good fucking good fucking good life
If this pill is real, then it’s possibly the best news I’ve heard in years.
Will it cure underlying problems? No. But neither does plastic surgery, anti-depressants, pain suppressants, religious fervor, abstinence-only sex ed., laws against abortion, gun control, etc., etc., etc.
The human race is all about avoiding the real issues on pretty much every topic in existence.
I googled around for it–seriously, the way the thing works is by lowering serotonin and raising dopamine. My orgasmic diet steadies serotonin and raises dopamine–it works the same, except it doesn’t need a prescription, much safer (nutritional supplementation) and also good for general health. Please take me seriously Dan.
@51 the overall issues of women and sex are caused by malnutrition. We evolved eating a very different diet than we do now, and the modern diet is lacking in certain things that trigger a woman’s body to think that the food supply is plentiful, time to make babies. Women’s libido is very sensitive to changes in diet, for obvious reasons–if a famine is going on, men don’t lose much by having sex, but women could die.
“We already put male pleasure as priority and already don’t talk about female sexuality and already characterize women as less sexually active and already tell women not to talk about sex or be demanding in bed.”
I think inventing a pill like this is *also* talking about female sexuality. It acknowledges that women can have weird disconnects between mental/physical desire and that women can *make a choice* to be horny. If you can say that women want to have sex, how can you tell them in the same breath not to talk about it or make demands in bed?
“So is this really a supplement to working through our problems in the bedroom or a replacement for dialog?”
Look. If you already don’t care about your wife or girlfriend’s problems and needs, chances are that’s an ugly issue that isn’t going to change easily, pill or no pill.
Female Viagra has already *not* existed forever, and it hasn’t affected how a lot of women are poorly treated/ignored in their relationships, or how they perceive themselves as weird or broken.
Funny we’re arguing about “underlying issues” here so much. Because there’s no reason why we can’t keep fighting the underlying issues here — people’s shitty attitudes — just because female Viagra is on the market.
Like how it’s argued that this pill treats a symptom rather than a problem, maybe this pill itself is also a symptom that you’re addressing over the problem.
Well, that does it – it’s back to nuts and berries for you women out there.
I for one would love to join a clinical study so I don’t have to wait for a marketed product. I have a healthy libido which is dead by the time I come home and I really feel sorry for my partner which starts the guilt cycle. Honestly – If I could pop a pill now and then just to get things started….
Why does this pill have to be all about “fixing” relationships? Perhaps a woman may just want to have some hot orgasms.
Fifty-Two-Eighty,
Forget that. I’m not giving up my Wild Turkey. You men will just have to suffer me. Never fear, I’ll be gentle with you all.
Oh, you can keep your Wild Turkey, Kimmie – you’re not one of the people bitching about having a low sex drive.
@20 Loveschild – You do know how science works, right? Apparently not.
@60, I think the discussion quickly turned to the topic of relationships because female orgasm has been tied to emotional health, which people assume to mean a healthy relationship. It’s the reason commonly cited for why something like Viagra doesn’t work for women. I’m not sure how women who just want to get their casual fuck on fit in that equation. They are certainly out there.
If a hypothetical relationship is in danger, I doubt this pill is going to be a magic bullet for 100% of folks. But it could definitely help people grow closer and get past their problems. A lot of the reasons I see being given in this thread for why women wouldn’t want to have sex could also be reasons why they should have sex.
Stressed out from work? Have an orgasm, it will help you relax. Lacking exercise? Fucking is good cardio and will raise your energy level if you stick to a regimen. Depressed? People who get laid regularly are happier. Feel distant from your lover? Have sex with him. It’s how men bond, and he will return the favor.
I’m having a hard time seeing how this could be anything but a good thing for women. And what is wrong with band-aids? They help wounds heal faster, which I think makes for an apt analogy in this context.
Just because something is normal-as-in-common doesn’t mean that is is normal-as-in-acceptable-or-desirable. Just because many women CAN and do experience loss of physical pleasure due to hormonal changes, mental health problems, marital strife, disease, or stress and fatigue doesn’t mean that they MUST until they “take care” of the problem. And that is assuming it is both possible and appropriate to do so. Anorgasmia is a common result of oncological treatment–it would be highly inadvisable to encourage a woman to discontinue chemotherapy and unwarranted to tell her that she may not enjoy physical intimacy until she is healthy. Women also suffer decreased libido due to the death of a child, relationship problems, financial difficulties, and the loss of employment. Those who object to this drug’s new use are implying that the women who are having problems in other areas do not deserve getting off until they get their shit together, right? Make no mistake: that IS the message communicated by objection to this new use of a medication. And it begs the question of who gets to decide when a woman is worthy of satisfying sex and when her reasons for wanting to have an orgasm are good enough. Just because it is normal for society to want to control when and how women fuck doesn’t mean that it’s RIGHT.
It is really normal and common for all your teeth to fall out as you get older. Toothbrushes and toothpaste are unnatural.
Seriously. Human beings have not lived “naturally” for millenia. But people who fear change go to that cannard every time. It’s interesting though, when they go to the “it’s unnatural!” argument sitting at a COMPUTER posting a message on the INTERNET so the whole world, literally the whole world, can see it a few seconds later.
These people need to make their arguments in a more natural manner, don’t you think? Come here and tell me this pill that might help me live a happier life is unnatural to my face. Verbal arguments accepted only. Paper production and ink production is unnatural. Don’t bother showing up wearing any synthetic clothes, contacts/glasses, etc.
@64: “And what is wrong with band-aids? They help wounds heal faster, which I think makes for an apt analogy in this context.”
Good one. In the context of using this Viagra-esque pill as an aid to a larger solution to overall issues, I was going to say, “A band-aid helps stem the blood until you get to the hospital” but mine is a lot grosser.
@65 I like what you’re saying here.
I feel like Dan, who may diagree with the doctors’, is also telling when and how women should fuck by advocating this pill to PREVENT their men from cheating. Like women are told all the fucking time, their actions are responsible for their partner’s and the behavior of men in general. There’s no sexual ownership in that.
to Marrena: 1. This isn’t the best place in the world to peddle your wares.
2. Dan probably doesn’t pay attention to you because aphrodisiacs are pretty much bullshit and pretty much any healthy diet and good living will increase libido. Yours probably isn’t unique.
3. Your diet doesn’t have anything to do with these SCIENTIFIC results we are talking about because there probably haven’t been any direct studies done on your diet. Not saying if there were that it wouldn’t work but a pill that’s gone through peer review and test studies and your diet you made up one day based on some information you read about libido aren’t the same thing.
@68
Well, let’s face it.
Our actions ARE directly responsible for how our partners will act, whether we are men or women. We are half of that equation.
WOMEN aren’t 100% responsible, they are more like 50%.
@68 Kersy, didn’t you say something to the effect of “Making women more horny does nothing to fix the (underlying issues)?” You seem to be one of the voices objecting to this use for the drug.
And severely obese people can have surgery to make it almost certain they will lose weight. That’s “just a band-aid” over the problem, too, but because we consider the effect (obesity) to be more of an issue than the cause, we accept the “band-aid” as a viable alternative.
But women’s libido is too infrequently considered a justifiable effect to be concerned about, so we require them to work on their “causes” instead of offering them a viable “band-aid” solution.
@71 I was. But people like @65 and @57 changed my mind. I think I was mostly offended by how Dan put it, that the impetus was on women to stop their partners from cheating so they should take a drug to “fix” their libido problems rather than taking the drug to make them happier and improve their relationship in general.
But no, it still does not fix the underlying issue that women are not allowed to enjoy sex or demand it. But like @57 said, we can fight that and be horny 🙂
@70 No, we are solely responsible for how we act.
I don’t think there are a lot of guys out there that would have a problem with women demanding sex, kersy. 🙂 But I’m glad you came around.
There are lots of physiological and emotional issues affecting libido that the use of a drug like this could ameliorate, many of which aren’t remotely related to patriarchy or gender roles. So it would be sad to disqualify it on that basis.
@73: Wow, awesome. I mean, I feel like … I should go bake a cake or something.
@74 Well, as long as you don’t threaten their masculinity, then it’s okay to be sexually assertive. Otherwise you’re a slut and a whore and a bitch. *sigh*
But yeah, just having sex more helps a lot when you’re in a long dry spell, but getting over that hump and on your way to a normal sex schedule is hard. I think this could really help with that.
@75 🙂 Only if it’s a penis cake.
@73: Exactly. Each member of the relationship is 50% responsible for it. We are responsible for how we act and how we REact and both of those each make up a portion of the whole that is one relationship.
@77 I don’t get your point.
If a person is domestically abused, they are not 50% responsible for it. If they are raped, they are not 50% responsible for it. If they are cheated on, they are not 50% responsible for it.
In a relationship, we are responsible for following through on our commitment to give each other equal support and love. We are not responsible for the actions of the other person, esp when those actions are dishonesty, unfaithfulness, abuse, and betrayal.
You’re simultaneously repeating and denying my, (admitedly minor), point.
A relationship is made up of two people.
But we can only control our own portion of that relationship. Trying to control how the other person reacts to our behavior isn’t the point and can have negative consequences. We can only actually control how we act towards that person, and how we react to that persons loyal and disloyal behavior.
Now, our partner will sometimes abuse our trust, or act in a way we don’t appreciate, but we never owned that person. They weren’t indentured to us simply because we perceive ourselves as having acted fairly towards them. If they do abuse trust, the only real options are to choose to live with that abuse, or abandon the relationship, assuming no truce is possible.
I’m starting to sound like Mudede. I think i should stop.
I think I can sum up what I was trying to say without all the LANGUAGE!
We are responsible for ourselves and only our selves.
A standard relationship is made up of 2 selves. One isn’t “responsible” for the others actions but they ARE responsible for their own.
NOT MUDEDE!
Thanks for clarifying, even if it was a minor point (I’m bored today). I totally agree with you 🙂
Yay!
I’m putting in a bulk order for this candy…
“And if this was a pill that restored a man’s sex drive or enabled a male to perform we wouldn’t even be debating its merits. We’d be stocking the shelves already and making sure it was covered by Medicare.”
…and guaranteed universal coverage under the Stupak–Pitts Amendment!
@55: I’m not sure what you mean by “high-dose,” but sufficiently high omega-3 intake leads to hemorrhagic toxicity and immunosuppression. Most Americans get too little omega-3 FAs, but with supplements, one can easily get too much. Just because it’s natural (which supplements aren’t, for that matter – purified oils are not found in nature), doesn’t mean it’s safe.
@33-35 (Dee)
Finally. Someone in the same boat as me. Wish I could talk to you in person. It is so f(*#&(*$& frustrating to read all the time about how men are insatiable. I only wish that were true with my other half. Makes me feel incredibly sad- my husband could care less about sex (with anyone, it’s not just me he’s apathetic about) and I have a happy healthy female libido. One of these days I am just going to have to show him the Ashley Madison website and tell him which guy I am thinking of contacting. 🙁
An interesting conundrum. It is marvelous for women who desire desire and cannot produce it otherwise, but the troubling issue is that, in our highly sexualized and still sexist culture wherein some men still EXPECT sex from “their women,” this could be one more weapon in the arsenal of an emotionally abusive and sexually selfish boyfriend/husband. “You’re still not in the mood, Baby? I heard of this pill, and you’d better get on it.” The potential abuse of this newest “fixer” of broken emotions makes me worry …. and yes I can hear the howls of “Women in that situation should just leave” but there are so many women very much stuck where they are for financial or familial or fearful reasons.
Here’s a question: Dan, you say that lack of sex will drive a partner to cheat, but what about masturbation? Do you think that that at least helps?
Essentially, if a wife has a lagging sex drive, but doesn’t mind if the husband masturbates and/or watches porn, is the husband still likely to cheat? I’d like to think not. And if the wife if giving her husband handjobs or blowjobs, does the likelihood decrease further? That’s still sex; even if she’s not particularly interested in getting off herself, she’s still allowing him, and sometimes helping him, to get off still.
What do you think, Dan, and other commenters?
@87: I’d say the handjob/blowjob concession is worth something; I agree with you that they’re forms of sex that a couple can have together and for a lot of men they probably represent an effort and do help.
On the other hand, “allowing” the husband to masturbate or watch porn is… I would say worthless, but sort of worse than worthless because someone might offer it and delude themselves into thinking they were making an effort thereby. Realistically, it’s something the husband most likely does anyway and the wife has little or no power to police or stop.
Ultimately it comes down to what a particular person wants or needs. Some people might just need to get off, some people might really crave/need “normal” sex (or whatever kind of sex they aren’t getting — witness a multitude Savage Love calls or letters from people with fetishes their partners aren’t able or willing to entertain), some people might be fine with any kind of sex that involves their partner (maybe it’s about intimacy as much as getting off), and some people might be inclined to cheat no matter what. All you can do is make as many concessions to being GGG for your partner as you can.
@87: It probably depends on the person, but I doubt that handjobs/blowjobs would be enough, especially if they’re done just to make the other person happy. Most people want to feel sexually desired and most people want sex where both people are really enjoying it. I would certainly cheat on or break up with someone who wouldn’t have vaginal intercourse with me.
And no, I don’t think masturbation helps at all. No matter how much you masturbate, you still need real sex.
Thank you, Dan, for pointing out the double standard that exists for men and women regarding sex drive.
I just want to mention, however, that the problem with a reduced sex drive isn’t just that it makes it more difficult to demand monogamy from one’s partner. Lack of sex drive = lack of pleasure. Whether a woman is partnered or single, monogamous or non-monogamous, she has the right to enjoy a healthy sex life, just like all the men who are currently using Viagra — and not just to preserve their monogamous marraiges, but *for their own pleasure*.
The fact that doctors would claim that it’s normal and acceptable for women to experience reduced sex drive and reduced pleasure from sex makes me sick. Aren’t we in the 21st century all ready???
@86: “‘You’re still not in the mood, Baby? I heard of this pill, and you’d better get on it.'”
A piece of shit who *commands* his girlfriend to take medication is clearly a douche even without the ability to abuse female Viagra. I doubt a woman who pleads lack of sex drive because of work stress or lack of housework equity can be heard by an asshole like that. In that kind of situation, she probably already has much more terrifying things to worry about — physical abuse, assault, rape.
All female Viagra does is stimulate physical desire; it has no affect on consent, or desire to have sex with a particular person. Yeah, it might make me horny, but it doesn’t mean I’m horny for *you.*
A guy who is so ruthlessly selfish as to force his girlfriend to medicate for sex probably really doesn’t care if she wants it anyway. All this pill might do is let him rationalize that at least she was physically up for it; it doesn’t change the fact she didn’t want to say yes in the first place.
If he didn’t have the pill, he’d probably co-erce her into sex through other means — guilt, nagging, lying, etc.
@69 Go fuck yourself. Seriously. How am I peddling wares by telling women to take high-dose fish oil? I have no shares in fish oil companies. I have a book but I’m not mentioning my book here. I’ve had fifty orgasms a day for years and I’ve had women who’ve tried my thing also have fifty orgasms a day. You taunt me with my lack of peer-reviewed research, yet I’ve lost funding for my study three times. I’ve got a PI at Columbia University, my mentor (the doctor who wrote my foreword) worked with Pfizer on the failed trials of Viagra on women and is convinced my approach works. I’ve had an offer to publish in the Journal of Sexual Medicine if I ever DO get funding for my study, and I’ve also had hundreds of women try my diet and respond within six weeks.
npage148, my blood pressure is 86 over 51! My diabetes is in good control through diet and exercise and my weight is dropping.
But the nerve damage done by diabetes doesn’t get undone.
@92, sounds like you keep ALMOST getting around to verifying your results some way other than anecdotaly but NEVER do. Wonder why that might be.
@94 Do you have $70K? That’s how much it costs for a very small study with an MD. My principal investigator is at Columbia University, he has a staff to pay. There is bloodwork, screening, clinic visits, etc. To get published in a reputable peer-reviewed journal, which you insist on, the PI must be an MD and comply with an IRB. Just to get in the gate costs money, money I don’t have. Wake up and smell the state of medical research in the country. A reporter from Self Magazine went on the diet and had the expected response, as did a couple other reporters and the women who tried it when I was on Rachael Ray’s show, it’s not like my anecdotes are my friends or something. The thing works.
The reason I lost funding is I only had funding because the companies wanted a method patent, and as I got more public about telling women about it, it entered the public domain as a treatment for FSD. Public domain approaches for any health treatment only get federal grant money.
I should probably reapply for grant money now that stimulus money is being spent on research, but under Bush, there was oh so much federal money being spent on research to improve female libido.
So seriously, fuck off.
@92: Fifty orgasms a day?
Sure.
Ask Betty Dodson–I demonstrated to her. I both had orgasms while she felt inside me with her hand, and then I had hundreds of orgasms given to me by her boyfriend while she watched. And she would know more than anybody if a woman is having a real orgasm.
Ask Dan, for that matter, if it’s possible for a woman to have fifty orgasms a day. I’m sure he will say yes. I am one of those women, and I know why it happens.