One branch of North Dakota’s legislature just passed a bill that would not only outlaw abortion, but define life as beginning at conception. According to RH Reality Check, legal experts generally believe that defining a fertilized egg as a human being would impact access to both emergency and regular hormonal contraception—both of which can cause fertilized eggs to fail to implant in the uterus. It would also affect in vitro fertilization. And, of course, it would have the effect of outlawing abortion.
Other anti-choice bills under consideration in North Dakota would require the state’s only abortion clinic to post signs outside its door informing patients that no one can force a woman to have an abortion; and a requirement that abortion providers read a statement to women saying that the procedure “will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living human being.”
I wish this was a joke.
@18, 26: ROFL @ “statuary rapes.” You’d need to be rock-hard to pull that off.
Oh, man. I wonder what happens to the poor intern who accidentally drops or squishes an embryo destined for in-vitro.
Reading these comments and being a proud North Dakotan, I want to add some insight on the politics of my home state. By and large, North Dakota voters are fairly independent when it comes to politics – particularly on hot button topics. Proof of this is in the fact that their two U.S. senators and one U.S. representative are Democrats.. Yet, they’ve also voted Republican for every presidential candidate since JFK and their Republican Gov. Hoeven is the longest-serving current governor in the U.S.
That said, both Hoeven and the state’s Congressional delegation are the very definition of moderates for their respective parties. I have a feeling that if this bill actually got passed by the state senate it would be shot down by Hoeven. I say this because the bill narrowly passed in the house and there’s been great talk that Hoeven is going to run for a Congressional spot, which would mean winning against three men who are considered lifers, two of whom are very powerful and respected senators. I don’t see Hoeven wanting to ruffle too many feathers.
Also, Democratic State Rep. Kari Conrad, who opposes the bill and comes from a neighboring district of the bill’s sponsor (State Rep. Dan Ruby) has spoken out against it quite loudly. One of the reasons, among many, is that the state would need to spend between $5 million and $8 million defending the law in court – and if there’s one thing I can say for certain of North Dakotans it’s that we’re very fruggle with money. Hence the reason it’s one of the only state budgets in the nation that actually has a surplus right now.
@7 Is that enough political insider information for you?
sassy2979 is one of the many reasons that slog readers never cease to amaze me!
@26
no way. that statue was totally asking for it.
@54, the fact that North Dakotans receive $1.68 of federal money for every $1 paid in federal taxes doesn’t hurt the financial picture there either. Let’s hope none of that goes to quash people’s rights, and that the North Dakotans really adhere to their frugal nature!
@24 for the win, with @57 for runner up.
How many of those “residents” are just going to college and will leave soon as the jobs go … my guess is a LOT.
@47 Survey Says….. Raindrop is the major douche here! Number one answer.
This has to be one of the most idiotic things you have ever posted @18. Until you figure it out I’d suggest that you just shut the fuck up.
We cheer for Science but when it collides with our prejudices and bloodlust we get all snarky.
Will, I think you may have misunderstood an earlier point. Those good tech jobs in Fargo are safer than their counterparts in Puget Sound. The cost of a worker there is significantly lower than it is here, and there are none of the cross-cultural problems related to outsourcing to India or China; department moves are already happening at Microsoft and other firms. So, those residents might just have more incentive to stay there than to head west. The bonus of added federal help is not exactly a deterrent either!
Failure to report underage girls who are pregnant means the statutory rapist who impregnate them are not prosecuted.
Of course, what is tolerating sexual abuse of girls next to protecting the right to slaughter the unborn at will?
@62, not all underage pregnant girls are the victims of statutory rape. Plenty of them have consensual unprotected sex with idiots their own age.
63
That is not for Planned Parenthood to decide.
The law requires them to report.
@64,
Prove it. Cite the statute.
@64, I believe medical professionals are only supposed to report abuse if there is an appearance of it. I’d hazard to say that most teen sex that leads to pregnancy is between peers who enter the act voluntarily. Besides, it is generally up to the victim (or her/his custodian) to press any charges.
@62 and your ilk – Stop calling a fetus “unborn” – it is not “unborn” – if anything it is “yet to be born” but you can’t be “unborn” – unless you are a zombie fetus that came out and then somehow went back in.
being from both seattle and north dakota, i’d have to say –
will in seattle is right…nd is a bunch of old crazies….
@57 – Lily – I’m curious where you got that number from, I’d love to see the source so I can get some context. My guess is that because the majority of North Dakota is made up of farmland, a lot of that is farm subsidies. And contrary to what many people think, farmers aren’t living high on the hog. If it weren’t for those subsidies, they’d go broke on every crop they yield. The amount of money they get is just enough to put a roof over their heads, food on the table, maybe one or two vacations a year if that, and then it all goes directly back into the farm. I come from a long generation of farmers, and without those subsidies there is no way food could be produced to put on anyone’s table.
We are all so smart ass about ignorant ND but the biology behind the law is ironclad. You may not want to give it any rights but fertilization does create a unique new member of the species.
I think we should allow the state to decide, as that will cause a booming business in abortion tourism.
I envision a chain of motels with abortion facilities just across the borders of places like North Dakota.
@69, I got my figure from the 2005 breakdown provided by The Tax Foundation, a non-partisan tax research group (see http://www.taxfoundation.org/)
I, too, come from a long line of farmers. We still have working family farms in the “other” Dakota, and I know that subsidies are necessary to provide the people with a variety of foods instead of solely cash crops. So, what I’m saying is that I am not against farmer subsidies at all (although it would be nice if the government would pay me to take a vacation or two every year); I just find it disingenuous when the communities that rely on federal farm subsidies brand themselves as self-sufficient.
@70, so that means that a woman should or could be charged with manslaughter if she miscarries? That means that a woman should be forced to carry a child that has defects to a degree that it would have no hope for survival? That means that a woman should be forced to remain pregnant as a form of punishment for pre- or extramarital sex? That means that a woman should be forced to remain pregnant while endangering her own life, because of complications related to diabetes and other diseases?
These are medical issues about which we must allow women to make the decisions that directly affect their own lives or deaths. Our duty is to protect the woman’s rights first.
@70: So do planters warts on people’s feet. Each wart is unique and interesting.
Or shit, cancer cells. Those are all unique once they are ‘formed’ but that doesn’t mean we have to live with warts and cancer.
(I know, I know, stupid anaolgy but the troll comments above as just as dumb. I just wanted to bring it to their level)
Original Monique. Just remember George Carlin’s briliant stand up on all life being sacred and the hyporcracies in those that make that statement.
“I brake for advanced stage melanoma”
@64: It’s not SR unless their is a difference in ages between the male and female. MOST cases are some 16 y/o and her 16 y/o boyfriend. That doesn’t mean SR.
So don’t be a moron. And please, stop the ignorant comments about PP, it just makes you look like a dick.
girls,girls; no need to get nasty-
your ‘right’ to ‘choose’ to slaughter your young is pretty safe- what with Democrats in control of the government and all.
however being honest about the ‘Science’ is a first step to developing enlightened policy.
And another thing, why doesn’t Planned Parenthood advocate and support parental notification laws? If most cases are between 16 year olds, as @76 says, then are they really mature enough to understand the haunting ramifications of what an abortion really means?
I know you all wish I would go away. I wish the emptiness and “what might have been” torment would go away for a woman I know who deeply regrets having an abortion to this day after 20 years.
@78: Because requiring parental notification will result in girls being forced by their parents to have babies they do not want and cannot take care of. That is a bad thing.
Also, perhaps you should be angry at your friend’s family, boyfriend, community, or political representatives who created the circumstances that led your friend to have an abortion she did not want, instead of the organization that allowed her the opportunity to make a decision that many women do want and do not regret later.
raindrop the reason that PP doesn’t support parental notification laws is out of respect for the safety of the young girls in their care. yes, the majority of the cases they see are a result of consensual teenager/teenager sex, but a significant minority could be the result of incest. also, what of the girls who have fathers (or mothers) that may react violently, dangerously? what of the young girls who would be thrown out of their homes for getting knocked up? for every teenage girl who explores her sexuality as a normal and healthy part of growing up, there is another who is doing it in an effort to form attachments because she is neglected or abused at home. it would be irresponsible of PP to send these girls back into an environment such as that after arming their defective parents with the details of their sexual lives. i certainly know what would have happened to me if i ever got knocked up and my parents found out about it. NOT AN OPTION.
@72
There is a difference between human cells and human beings. There’s also a difference between acknowledging something as human and giving it human rights. That is a political and social situation as much as it is a scientific one.
You won’t find people arguing whether or not a zygote is human in origin, you will find them arguing whether or not it has human rights, some of which might trump those of the person in which those cells reside.
Sorry, that was meant to be directed at number 70
#78, what exactly are the “haunting ramifications” and what does “abortion really mean”? The only difference between abortion and a miscarriage is that the former is intentional. Not every woman feels bad or guilty or haunted by their choice to abort, in fact, many women are relieved, healthier, and more alive than before the procedure. It’s only the anti-choice religious nuts who assume the experience is necessarily traumatic. That assumption is based on their personal religious belief, not scientific reality, and the resulting cultural pressure compels other women, especially the young ones, to feel traumatized by the experience when there is no reason to feel guilty at all.
“Abortion on demand without apology!”
I’m so glad that it appears Original Monique is back. She has been greatly, greatly missed.
This won’t pass. even if it does, it is the rule of the people, is it not?
as long as federal law does not prosecute it I am fine with states passing their own laws regarding abortion. NDakotans can go to minnesota or south dakota for their abortions.
I don’t agree but that’s democracy. I think most people agree that abortions in the case of rape+incest and when the mother’s life is in danger shouldn’t be outlawed. An anti-abortion bill without those measures (it was across the board, very few exceptions) failed in SD a couple years back.
it’s called the bible belt for a reason.
Raindrop, you really are a drip.
“Haunting ramifications” my ass. I had an abortion when I was 17. THANK GOD.
If I hadn’t, I probably would have been tied to that abusive asshole of a boyfriend to this day, in one form or another. I couldn’t have supported that kid, that boyfriend wouldn’t have supported that kid (he’s in jail now). My life would have been very different if I had let that cluster of cells develop into a child.
I am now happily married and have three great kids. When I think back on that time of my life, the only emotion I have is profound relief and gratitude that I was able to escape that situation.
You know what else? Most of the women I know – who are also boring stay-at-home moms like me – also had abortions, or know women who had abortions. We’re everywhere, raindrop. The true silent majority.
@48, I’m not sure Raindrop does have the stones to use her own name on every post. Check out 60, 62, 70, 71, and 77. Either all the same person or right-wingers have scarily similar posting styles.
Cheer up, it’s only North Dakota.
86
Dear Mom,
the feeling is mutual, bitch
Almost every girl I know has had an abortion. Some have had two or three. And every one of them is better off for it. That’s pretty straightforward (if anecdotal) evidence for me. but it’s really all I need to know.
I think there are way, way too many arguments for abortion, and roughly zero against it that make sense.
In the wars throughout history (recent events in
In wars throughout history (recent events in the Democratic Republic of Congo being a contemporary example) systematic rape of entire populations of women has been used as a tactic of conquest. The anti-choice people believe that these women should be forced to bear the offspring of their husbands’ murderers and spend the next twenty years caring for these reminders of their violent subjugation.
Because they value life so much. So very, very much.
90
Maybe you need to acquaint yourself with a better class of girls?
@93: Like all those sluts who get pregnant after rape?
94
Of course, how silly of me to overlook the .01% of abortions in America that result from rape.
@95: So by your statistics, which I’m sure you didn’t just pull straight out of your ass, that’s about a hundred women a year in this country alone that you would compel to bear their rapists’ children, a fact that merits a shrug from you. ‘Cause you value life so much, right?
You’re a real peach.
In regards to this whole, “Science say that embryos are whole, separate, unique, living human being!” thing some people seem to have going on:
Science has nothing to do with morality. Nothing. Science is what gives us a way to transplant organs; it doesn’t tell us if it is acceptable to forcibly remove Person A’s kidney so that Person B will live. Science is what allows us to create embryos so as to harvest stem cells; it doesn’t tell us if we should do so. Science is what allows ABORTION; it doesn’t tell us if abortion is right or wrong.
Yes, embryos are human life with human DNA. But so are hair follicles. Simply tagging something as HUMAN doesn’t mean anything about how we should treat it, as such classifications are the realm of science. It’s morality that must decide these other questions.
97
a hair follicle is not ‘human life’.
it is a piece of a human.
otherwise you are correct.
but the abortionist want to deny that the embryo is a human life.
accepting that piece of ‘science’ would be a first step to developing a more humane moral policy toward abortion.
96
Thank You
I believe women who become pregnant against their choice should have the option to end the pregnancy.
That is a very small percentage of the abortions in America.
I will concede you the 100 if you concede the million that are carried out for convenience.
I’m sorry … it’s really easy to be pro-life until you get pregnant under god aweful circumstances. And then should you choose to keep it … it gets even more difficult to be pro-life under despotic futile god aweful circumstances.
THAT is reality. That is what we scientifically know is the number of people that are populating our prisons from broken homes. And the children livinng in poverty and in abusive families from parents that either selfishly choose to keep a child under impossible circumstances.
Hell, even MY mother has her doubts of keeping me, we grew up poor as shit, and I grew up to be a Ph. D. sceintist … albeit haunted by deamons and in ass loads of debt.
But then again, nobody had that choice, the doctor refused to perform the abortion because I was large and believed to be beyond the three month mark. So we all sucked it up and tried to create a loving family … and we did ok at it for a while.
We all have lingering doubts and not all choices are perfect, but what if we never had a choice? I never had a choice to grow up in a broken and impoverished home either. If my soul was in the hypothetical waiting room, who wouldn’t rather come out in a different time and place. But what’s done is done and I love my life for what it is. And to make blanket statements about what life is or isn’t by the merits of how you yourself value life … with no consideration to what the rest of the world may be thinking or feeling is totally selfish. Truth, is actually an ugly thing. I find that those good wholesome moral choices are gifts to those that can truely afford them. Taking sundays off for church, having a stay at home mother, being koshor!