Because Democrats are too fucking spineless (I use the first person plural since it’s commonly known that all Slog writers, readers, and commenters are Democrats of some stripe. Feel free to correct me if/when I am wrong).
All polling shows that most people in this country want health care reform, want it now, and want a strong public option to balance the profit-driven health insurance companies whose real goal is to make as much money as possible by paying for as little as possible.
But the Dems in the House, the Senate and the White House lack the courage of their convictions, and our elections, to tell the Republicans (WHO LOST!) , the lobbyists, the right-wing media, and the tea-baggers and town-hall-meeting shouters to fuck off, we’re going to do what we know is right, and what we were elected to do. Vote against it if you want, we don’t care. We won, and vae victis.
Nope, they’re spineless nice-guy cowards who believe that they have to bring their idiot opponents on board, even when that really means losing, since the idiot opponents are absolutists and morons who disregard facts for ideology every time. Compromise with them means watering down anything worth doing till it’s not worth doing. Since the beginning of the Bush II Years, “bipartisanship” has been code for “Democrats go Along with Republicans.” The Dems got in the habit of this when they were in the minority, and now cannot shake the habit now that they could just DO WHAT WE ELECTED THEM TO FUCKING DO.
The public option will be dropped. The health insurance industry will continue to make its hundreds of millions of dollars (and to donate more to the Rs than the Ds) while scores of millions of Americans go without insurance and other Americans will continue to be bankrupted by their medical bills.
Serious question — why vote anymore? I can’t believe I was willing to give up precious hours of my life and my own money to be a delegate at the Dem convention last year — I’m in my forties and should have known better. No one in politics gets a fucking dime of my money ever again.
I agree, the Democrats are spineless, and a consequence of that is that they are unable to control messaging. Concern over Dem’s inability to control messaging on any issue, or during campaigns made a brief appearance in 2004 with the idea of “framing” but died down quickly.
The Dem’s needed to get out in front of this and to anticipate the “death panel” rhetoric, the “socialism” rhetoric, etc. Neither of these ideas was really that difficult to predict. I heard my Grandpa spouting off a proto-“death panel” meme in July before all the town halls. They blew it, though. Now senior citizens and “real Americans” are riled up about these supposed features of the health care bill, and that’s how the debate will be framed from now on, since those two demographics comprise more than 40% of the electorate.
The thing is, the right hasn’t offered any alternatives from what I can tell. The Democrats should push through with the public option, and meet any opposition to it with “You have a better idea?” The Republicans won’t.
Why do they think we voted for them? So they could kowtow to the minority who fucked up our country for 8 LONG years?
NO! To do the shit we couldn’t get done in the last 8 years! To restore America to a country that gets a modicum of respect in the international community as something other than a brat with a gun! To prove that the “intellectual elite” can actually run the government without destroying life for “middle America”.
Anyway — I’m not just bitching with no ideas; I’ve got a game plan! Obama and the Dems need to take some government agency or program the teabaggers hold dear that’s broken and fix it. REALLY fix it. Not something huge, like healthcare, something small, but notable. Then, when the teabaggers say “we can’t trust government to fix healthcare” Obama can point to the thing and say, “well, we fixed that!”
I think that racism and astroturfing aside, there is a genuine (and not unfounded) fear that the government will try to “run” healthcare and will turn it into a bureaucratic morass like the DMV (yes, the DMV is a state agency, but the fear is there). If the Dems build some confidence by fixing some small things first, perhaps the fear will be abated.
I told you health care was more important than you getting all upset over DADT and DOMA and that the time things changed was back then, but no, you had to go off in a snit.
And for what?
Now you have neither. And nobody answering your calls.
Democrats, liberals are just to fucking nice. That is why they are Democrats and liberals, if they were assholes, then they would be gay-hating, tea bagging, Republicans. Their virtual is their un-doing.
No, Will, we should be equally upset over both.
Well, it’s just a trifle more complicated than that. You can’t really blame Obama, nor can you blame the generic “Democrats.” You can, however, blame the so-called “Blue Dog Democrats” who have kept this from getting the required 60% of the votes.
But don’t blame them too much – they’re doing exactly what they were elected to do. They’re representing their constituents.
And for the record, I’m just as disappointed about how this has turned out as you are.
Oop, I meant virtue, not virtual.
The loss of the public option is not particularly sad. There is no reason to believe that an unsubsidized public company would be more cost-efficient than a private insurer. And if the public option were subsidized, it would be a fiscal black hole. (And unfortunately, even if it started out unsubsidized, it’s difficult to believe that it would stay so forever.) In any case, as Obama has said, the public option was ever only a small part of health care reform, which got elevated in the political debate because of left-wing fetishism for government enterprises.
What is sad is actually the loss of the ground that Republicans had been forced to give under the pressure for reform. The Republicans had proposed (1) requiring insurers to offer policies to all comers at the same price, (2) mandating insurance, and (3) subsidizing policies for the poor. Those are good reforms, and you can be damn sure they won’t still be on the table when the whole reform package collapses.
I had a sinking feeling of disappointment yesterday when I read that the public option may be dropped. Not getting health care reform done will screw the country (it’s ability to be competitive in a global economy), its citizens (as CF points out, the many without coverage and those who are being bankrupted by illness), and the Democrats (who are basically buying the energetic/passionate masses who voted for them in 2008 a one-way ticket to Apathytown in 2010/2012).
Also blame Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd. You can’t have a 60 vote majority when two of them call in sick every day.
For the good of the democrat party, those two need to retire.
If they retire, the current rules allow for an election in Nov – they’re trying to hold on until it’s too late – party politics, @11.
As a political motivator, irrational fear & bias will always be stronger than moral imperative. The Repugs have shown that they are willing harness their cart to irrational fear with no regard for conscience; they certainly can’t *steer* the cart, but that’s another matter…
I can’t believe that I was ever naive enough to think that the Dems would have the balls to change anything of substance.
What?… You still think there is a difference between a politician that is a Democrat and a politician that is a Republican? There is none because at core they are Politicians first and Democrats or Republicans second. Politicians are interested in only one thing. Obtaining and holding onto power. Regardless of what you may have been told as a child, power does not come from the electorate (Democrat or Republican) but the various special interests groups who control the money and the media necessary to get a message to the electorate. This system is enforced by a lack of term limits and a two party system. Lack of term limits incentives politicians to toe the line (as they can potentially retain a life ling hold on power). The two party system enable the power brokers to keep the electorate basically split down the middle and divided against its self, thus they are able to swing power from one political party to another with relatively minor effort and expense. But the underlying truth here is that the power brokers don’t care what party governs as long as they govern the way they want them to, and the politicians know that. The voters only think there is a difference because the lies politicians tell on the stump are different based on party affiliation.
Hope for Change all you want. You’ll never get it.
That’s how we got DADT & DOMA from Clinton and the largest expansion in government since FDR from Bush II.
@ 9
Umm.
I think you may have misstated:
“elevated in the public debate”
should read as:
“blatantly mischaracterized and unabashedly lied about”
“left-wing fetishism for government enterprises”
should read as:
“right-wing racism, xenophobia, and nostalgia for the Red Scare”
Further corrections pending.
The difference is the Republicans are the adults in the equation and the Dems are the exitable flighty kids.
When the going gets tough the right just hunkers down grimly and sees things through, the left starts pissing themselves and blaming each other and crying to mommy.
The right is confident in the knowledge that they advocate the morally correct positions, and, even if they lose losing in the defense of morality is not really a loss if you gave it your all.
It is gratifying to see Obama and Slog seeing the light so early in the administration.
These little trips to the woodshed are painful but useful- hopefully you girls won’t need another too soon…
Gee Willy in Seattle–
Why aren’t you out there on the streets protesting and getting yourself locked up in jail at the taxpayers’ expense?
All talk aren’t you?
You’re a self-righteous twit of a breeder only more than happy to criticize gays and lesbians for not doing what you seem unwilling or afraid to do yourself for an issue you think is so damn important.
Your past protest activities in Canada are in the past.
Put up or shut up in the present.
I love listening to stupid, whiny liberals. Thank You All
The Democrats won all the bases in the game and they are still incapable of doing any thing constructive. They have no cohesive plans or ideas, just millions of grubby hands looking for a freebie at the expense of the workers.
What a laugh…they own the white house and congress andstill can’t find their collective asses with both hands… the Republicans handed them Washington through their own stupidity, and the Dems still can’t convince enough of their own minions to vote together. You don’t neeed Republican permission to do this…you have the legal voting majority.. loosers…talk,talk,talk. girlie politics
Oh Stop Crying – You don’t need the Republicans to pass anything. Did you ever stop and think that just MAYBE a complete overhaul is NOT the right thing for our country? Do you even realize that 80% of us LIKE our health care plan? Do you REALLY want the government to REQUIRE everyone to have health insurance and be fined if they don’t. BTW the fines will be imposed by the IRS who will also have access to your bank account!Do you really want to saddle future generations (and us) with TRILLIONS of taxes? Do you really want a government employee to determine if YOU need a medical service? Do you really want to be FORCED into the government option when you change jobs? These are all portions of the proposed House “reform” bill! You better stop and think about what you REALLY want.
OK, first of all, we need to drop the false notion that the Dems are spineless or cowardly–that’s simply not true. The fact is that most of the Dems want the same things that the Republicans want, and there are only stylistic differences. This is the reason they can have huge majorities in Congress and ridiculously still blame a lack of votes for an inability to achieve what people desperately want.
It’s Congresses’ job to protect their rich and powerful puppetmasters from us piss-ons.
Secondly, the Dems blew the “reform” debate even before it started by ruling out simply dropping the age restriction from Medicare. “Medicare for all” taps the positive sentiment felt for this popular progam, and that’s a helluva lot easier to explain to people and counter the lies of the Right. They never wanted that–it’s been a sham from beginning to end.
Third, gay rights has absolutely nothing to do with the failure of health reform. If you’re desperate to blame someone, his name is Barack Obama and his address is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW Washington, DC, telephone (202) 456-1111.
Did Seattle have a Kiss-In?
After all the big talk about what ASSHOLES and BIGOTS the Mormons are did Dan organize a Kiss-In in Seattle?
All talk.
No action.
Fuck Gay Marriage-
you won’t even hang on to Civil Union.
And you don’t deserve to.
It’s a mean Darwinian world out there and Civil Rights are wasted on backboneless pussies.
Enjoy you anonymous promiscuous bathhouse ButtSex and your Bar Crawl protests and your bitching and whining 24/7.
It’s all you’ll ever have.
It’s time to get what we voted for…..Spineless DEM’S.The insurance companies are the only winners
Actually, millions won’t go without health insurance, because without the Public Option, we’ll all be forced to buy private insurance.
Making this, what, the 10,000,000th corporate giveaway from the Obama Administration?
There’s a huge relucatance to blame Obama in this thread.
He’s the man, dude, so it falls on him.
All was predictable including recalcitrance of blue dogs.
Did he go to ND SD WY MT NM and those blue dog states and organize people to pressure the blue dogs?
No, he didn’t. though he’d said he would.
Chicken.
2. You can blame Obama supporters. he said we’re going to do it differently WE’RE GOING TO INVITE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO THE TABLE. And the fan base said yay, yippee! We lve his post partisanship! So now we got the triangulating with the insurers, and most grass roots democrats actually supported it.
The spinelessness is the long term problem of ACCEPTING THE RIGHT WING lie that gummint is the problem/the insurers are part of our solution/we must preserve them not attack them/we must let them to the table. At a certain point you ahve to bite the bullet and say, um, actually the whole GOP program is one big lie, a scam by which the powerful stay in power by fooling people with untruths that are massive, deliberate, and done for money and power.
Hey look. My sister lived in Austira in the 19790s and she got a whole inner ear replacement for free….all those little bones…very advanced surgery….she wasn’t even a citizen! And she had a minimum or no wage job in a social service agency just caring for oldsters. This is what the Democrats let the GOP call communism and death panels and the loss of freedom and all that crap. So ultimately the GOP lies are scaring voters and scaring Democratic leaders…
well then, the lesson would be, DON’T ELECT SOMEONE WHO SAYS HE’S GOING TO SIT DOWN WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!
He could have organized a few hundred thousands in all those blue dog states. But no. He made a deal with Tauzin, the whore.
So here we are.
No hope, no change, but we got unity
with insurers!
And they get 47 million new customers and new found legitimacy because they agreed to reform!
Nice deal for them!
That’s what you get for thinking that someone is going to represent your interests just because they have a “D” on their jersey rather than an “R”. Both parties have been playing this country like fools while they accept millions in corporate lobbying funds. Meaningful reform (forget about single payer) is impossible with the system we have now.
Angry but not surprised. I have a hard time caring, because I know that nothing good will be done.
Heckava job Dems. Have fun losing all your seats in 2010. and Obama? Tell Rudi Gulliani I said hello while you are touring the paid speaking gig circuit in 2012.
Dear new republican overlords of 2012, please let the west coast secede from the union. kthxbai.
Here’s the deal. Whether or not liberals are spineless, nice or scaredy cats, “the American people” includes an amazing number of very stupid people. Anyone that can be convinced that private insurance companies are more trustworthy than the federal government, is flat out stupid. Anybody who is impressed by Dick Armey is stupid beyond imagination. The Democrats must immediately adopt an US vs THEM mentality. Insurance companies, Republicans, Hospitals — THEM. Liberal Democrats: US. US must beat THEM. Second choice, US may lose to THEM. Last choice and the worst of all: Compromise
@ 16
It is absolutely HILARIOUS that anyone can believe that the Right is actually concerned with morality.
The Right *uses* morality as a tool to acquire power ($$) and to stay in power ($$). If you have previously voted for a conservative candidate on the basis of a moral issue, you have been *used*.
Healthcare should not be a for profit business-it should be non profit and benefit all. It’s hard to believe that these reactionaries and a lot of them are lower and middle class , want to cut their own throats, in the name of for profit health care.
The spectrum of political philosophy/ political interests of the Democratic Party are far wider and more diverse than that of the Republican Party. Democrats tend to think more independently and also represent populations with a wide array of interests- everyone from a white corn farmer in certain Midwestern states (Blue Dog), to white urban liberals and inner-city minorities. Republicans, as a party and as a voting population, seem to be more unified around issues that are important to the vast majority of conservatives- guns, god, taxes, government intrusion, etc. This rank and file approach creates the solidarity and loyalty that allows Republican controlled Congresses to freight train legislation through to the Executive.
Democrats are not spineless- I truly believe that every member of the party is fighting for what they feel will benefit their constituencies. However, being the diverse party that the Democrats are, coming to a consensus on how to go about something as ground shaking and controversial as health care reform is next to impossible. It’s easy for the Republican members to sell their idea of health care reform to their constituencies, “Govmint, stay out.” This is a strategy that all conservatives with 2 brains cells to rub together will rally around and it will ultimately work for the Republicans again- as evidenced already by the Public Option being dropped.
It’s the make-up of the party itself that hamstrings the Democrat’s ability to get anything done. Although it may be a factor to a certain point, this inability cannot simply be boiled down to cowardice.
30
laugh it up, fuzzball.
and pray to what ever you worship that the Dems “use” you as well as the Republicans use their supporters.
The Dems have the White House in a landslide and SuperMajorities in Congress and still can’t get shit.
We have more fun in our worst off years than you do at the pinnacle of your “success”.
I think #7 hit the nail on the head. Corporate lobbyists have way way too much power in this country (I am carefully watching that airline passengers bill of rights, who is not for that after all except airline lobbyists?) but ultimately what we have here is conservative dems accurately representing their conservative districts. The American moron gets the government and the health care he deserves because he is the majority and this is a democracy.
Cheer Up, sweetcakes-
your Loss is our Gain.
Tom……….it’s virtue, not virtual. And, the major liberal comments here are so typical. You think you are too nice? Think again. Some of the nastiest blogs and comments online are from you folks. You are the ones who have been the protesters since the 60’s. That’s where the conservatives found their models on how to rudely protest (which is the model many are taking in their rudeness at town hall meetings).
So the problem with Democrats is, in essence, that they are not sufficiently left-wing, and that they are too polite to those with whom they disagree? Thus, for instance, Pelosi should have called the protesters out and out traitors rather than subtly alluding to their Nazi sympathies?
Keep thinking that. For every person you reach, your will anger 3. And several more will simply tune you out.
Too Nice?
haha.
good one.
You are the murderous bastards who slaughter 800,000 babies each year in the name of “Sex Without Responsibility”
This is a really lame attempt at political analysis. Dems couldn’t push this through because of their conservative small-state senators like Baucus and Conrad. There’s much, much more to it then that. And it’s not over. I encourage people to read up and call their senators and representatives to get a good bill passed.
“CHILDREN” should be seen, not heard
hey pussies,
when I want you opinion I’ll beat it out of you.
now STFU.
So let’s see if this is what you are saying about insurance companies or any other capitalistic entity. You are saying that businesses should not make money….or just not a lot of money and that our government can do it better, right? You would rather have the government control how much investors in those insurance companies get for risking their hard earned money. After all, the government has done so well on things like Social Security, Medicare, welfare, right?
What ever happened to good old competition? The answer is it is alive and well as long as our GOVERNMENT stays out of the way.
The reason Obama and the democrats are losing on this is because 80% of us Americans are happy with what we now have. Retirees have, for the most part, good health insurance coverage. Obama and Co. look at the few that we all agree need help and says “Let’s have our government take control of it all.”
The solution is to identify that 15 or 20 percent that truly need health care coverage and provide it for them! Period. Keep those that are just lazy out of it and people will get on board without hesitation.
The democrats aren’t losing on this issue because they aren’t getting the message out. They are losing because the message is out and America does not like it and that includes many democrats.
@17 – lol, like you have any idea what I really do or have done.
If you get bored, realize that recycled paper in that magazine you read is there because of what I did.
Actions. Not words.
You’re talking, but the voter turnout in your area is still low in this primary period.
New idea for Schmader’s “Daily Poll Dance” posts: how many pro-reform Sloggers have actually taken the time to contact their elected representatives and voice their opinions?
Wow is Slog starting to attract Freepers?
That those possessed with a wild paranoia about government bureaucrats making decisions about their health care are the same who are perfectly cool with corporate bureaucrats making decisions about their health care never ceases to bewilder.
Hey maybe if more of our delightful fellow citizens of a right-wing persuasion are coming here to engage we can educate them about a thing or two. Let’s start (hold onto your seats): Medicare is run by the government.
The “F” word rules in the lib rads vocabulary and they are angered because Americans are speaking out against the socialist “D’s proposals on health
reform. Cool off because this is just the beginning of an awakening for
a real populous movement in our country.
@45 – because people are fighting back against them on WaPo and Seattle Times and PI so they realized most of the ideas used against them came from here.
They do track us with these cookies, you know.
Love this mornonic quote: “The “F” word rules in the lib rads vocabulary”
And your N words you whisper amongst yourselves on the right…”nigger”, “nazi” etc are all just fine and dandy to you?
“this is just the beginning of an awakening for
a real populous movement in our country.”
OK, tough guy. Have at it. You guys talk a big game with your gun toting morons outside rallies, wrapped up the flag like patriots. When in fact you are all nut-job, xenophbic, racist, selffish pricks. Oh and I think we already say your brand of “populous movement” in the EIGHT YEARS of your regime. Or were you taking a NAP the last 8 years?
47
you’re a sad sad little puppy
‘A real populous movement in our country’
I don’t know why that statement immediately caused a clip from Dawn of the Dead to start playing in my mind.
@7 – a little bit of misinformation. You wrote “You can, however, blame the so-called “Blue Dog Democrats” who have kept this from getting the required 60% of the votes.”
I blame the Blue Dogs too. And oh, how I hate Max Baucus and Kent Conrad. But it’s not strictly accurate to state 60% of the votes is required. 60% of the votes is only required to beat a filibuster. Health care could pass on a majority vote. Routine threats of a filibuster are a new phenomenon (first emerging as an anti-civil rights tactic in the 50s and 60s), which results in the Senate moving at the speed of its 40th most progressive member — usually a Senator from a podunk state representing literally 0.5 percent of the population. Think North Dakota or Montana. This is insane. And insanely undemocratic.
The procedure here is really important in explaining the crappy policy outcomes. So we can’t accept the “requirement” that health care pass with 60% of the votes, when that is a recent invention that individual Senators prefer because it gives each of them a veto on National Policy. Matt Yglesias and now Rep. Inslee are pretty good at explaining this one.
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archiv…