When you sit there behind the TV, creepy closeted gay guy, staring at me while I watch hockey, it kinda creeps me out. When you wink at me every time I glance in your direction to see if you’re still staring, it really creeps me out. When you ask me, “You like football, huh?” because you can’t see that I’m watching hockey, it fucking annoys the hell out of me. When I finally approached you halfway through the second period and asked you what you wanted and called you out on your staring and winking, and you aggressively denied it and said you had been staring at the woman next to me who had been there for only five minutes, it pissed me off because you had no conviction, no integrity, and you just caved as I disempowered your voyeuristic intrusion into my personal space. If you want to fuck men you see in straight bars watching hockey, have some balls and say what you want when they call you on your shit. At least then, this cocksucker could have said, “I’m not interested,” and we could have moved on with our lives. You didn’t need to get kicked out of the bar, and I could have watched the third period.
—Anonymous
So was he a good lay?
Welcome to the life of cute girls, dude!
@2 LOL, FTW.
@2, Nah, straight dudes have no compunction about saying “yeah, baby, wanna get a room?” when confronted. You’re right about the creepy, intrusive staring, though.
Seriously. I love it when a man goes on a rant like this because none of them realize that, for women, this is EVERYDAY LIFE. Sucks, huh?
@2: LOL! I second your nomination for the win! Yours is one of the best comments ever made in I, Anon!
@4: Yeah—Anon’s situation sounds like the shoe is on the other foot.
#5 FTW!!!
Hockey blows.
Callie, absolutely. Every. Single. Day.
Where are all these women who go to sports bars just to watch premium-channel events on the TVs, and otherwise want to be left alone?
I mean, I’ve certainly seen women watching sports in bars by themselves, and there’s no excuse for creepin’ on anyone regardless, but this scenario doesn’t seem like one that many women are involved in Every. Single. Day.
#10, I think you missed the point there, Mr. Literal.
Women go to bars looking for this kind of attention, men don’t. The day they don’t get it anymore is the day they start harping on the trollops of the younger generation and start collecting cats. Get used to watching Lifetime and indulging your pedophilia by convincing yourself you’d be fought over by Jacob and Edward.
@5, for the record, the author is well aware of the power dynamics in place between men and women in a sexist world, and this doesn’t invalidate my relatively tiny, comical, related experience with similar dynamics as a men very often cruised by other men. Cheers 🙂
@12, “women go to bars looking for this kind of attention”? That’s a little presumptuous. It’s one thing for women to go scantily clad to a nightclub and back it up on guidos, and in that case, you are correct. But what about stopping off for a beer after work or going to watch a game because she genuinely likes sports? In those cases, if you are a reasonably attractive female, there will usually be stares that are annoying at best and creepy/uncomfortable at worst. And why is this (aside from the obvious “hot women are nice to look at” thing)? Because a lot of men think women go to bars for that kind of attention. It’s just not always true.
I always assume any guy watching hockey would rather be sucking my dick.
@10 and @12. Yes, there are some specific situations where I go out looking for attention. But there are many other times when I get creepy attention, like sitting in a coffee shop or waiting for my bus. Women deal with this crap every day, and its usually not welcome.
@16 Well said. The specifics of the situation are trivial and irrelevant. *One* of my intentions of writing this was to illustrate the general creepy, unethical nature of how sexual desire manifests itself in non-consensual, unwelcomed, voyeuristic ways that affects the way people live their lives and exist in public social space.
The power dynamic itself is not gendered in such a way that it needs to necessarily be a man doing this to a woman; the exact same dynamic happens amongst gay folks too, which is of course a subculture that appropriates and replicates dynamics rampant in heterosexual culture, the good and the bad. And of course, women can and do do this to men all the time. To think that this dynamic is only valid or natural when it’s a man doing it to a woman only reinforces and perpetuates the dominant heterosexual variety of sexism and misogyny; this variety is only an example of something bigger and more common, it’s just the dominant, pervasive variety.
What’s with gay dudes trying to queer straight men? Aren’t there enough gay bars, bathhouses, and assorted buttslam joints in this town? You do realize you’re playing with fire-the last gay man that made a pass at me got knocked this side of Jupiter. And yes, I got away with it. Mind your own business for your own health and well being. And kindly go fuck yourself.
@19 that’s an indirectly related issue that doesn’t flow from anything discussed here that you seem to be very passionate about. You should write an I, Anonymous, interview a bunch of gay men, and find out what’s going on there.
#18 & 13, the difference, though, is that you state you found this particular creep comical and minor, and that is probably due to the fact that you didn’t have to wonder whether the guy was going to hurt you.
A lot of women like myself have had several instances where the creep did more than just stare & make conversation. I’ve had my ass grabbed while DJ-ing, I’ve been rubbed up against, felt up on the bus, assaulted by the masseuse during a massage at what seemed like a legitimate massage parlor, had my crotch grabbed by a strange man while walking home from a bar, etc… All by guys who were physically much larger than me and capable of doing even more harm if they wanted to.
A lot of women don’t know whether to find these dudes merely annoying as you did or actually scary. Which is why we might roll their eyes just a little when an “I anon” shows up like this from a guy. It’s not that we don’t get it, it’s just that we’ve dealt with WAY worse and the vengeful part of us (or at least me) wishes more men were made as nervous as we are made to feel every day.
@21 noted and agreed. Hence, there was not even the slightest intention for this to be read as completely analagous in such a way that men, sexuality being whatever, can say “see, I know how it feels to be a
woman!”. That’d be ridiculous, shortsighted, and yes, wrong. Cheers.
Men are assholes, whether they are straight or gay.
This is perhaps part of why I am straight.
Get over yourself dude.
You people are hilarious. ‘He’s looking at me creepy!’, He’s making me feel uncomfortable with his misogynistic presence!’, ‘I have a right to either invisibility or extreme attention in public spaces depending on how I feel at the moment!’
Get over yourselves hippies. The people looking at you are just wishing you would go have a proper bath and wash all that organic hemp butter off. It’s a public space, and looking is not equivalent to assault. If you don’t like it leave, or go confront the person, but please quit whining!
Is everyone in this city a passive agressive coward? If you don’t like something do something about it, don’t cry to your yoga buddies and try to realign your chakras or submit your pathetic simpering to the newspaper…
What’s with all the angry women coming on here as though their experience with harassment somehow invalidates Anon’s? I’m a woman and I’ve received my share of unwelcome male attention, but that doesn’t mean Anon doesn’t have the right to be annoyed at some asshole leering and creeping on him. You guys are totally missing the point.
Gay dudes: learn when an another dude is straight.
Straight dudes: Get over gay dudes, they are sometimes wonderful human beings and will respect you in all likelihood more than a lot of other people.
Angry Women: yes unwanted sexual attention sucks. Yet you complain also when you don’t get wanted sexual attention. Men aren’t psychics and nature created a sexual reproduction system that required us to be somewhat aggressive. You don’t like making the first move and giving the first attention, so get over the fact we do.
(Not apologizing for the many truly creepy guys who don’t know how to read signals or who lack all sensitivity to people and circumstance)
tukwilaaintsobad @ 12,
Oh, god, you’re one of the creeps who stare at women aren’t you? God! You are! No jerk-wad, women aren’t into you and knock it off already! We don’t like the creepy staring and hitting on either!
p.s. tukwila is too that bad
Reminds me of that comment, ”Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women.” (Though I do not think the OP was homophobic.)
I agree with 2, welcome to the life of teh women, I, Anon.
@28: Wanting wanted sexual attention does not delegitimize not wanting unwanted sexual attention. Most women I know do reciprocate flirting, eye contact, etc if they are interested in a guy, and many will approach him even if under a laughably fake pretense to avoid seeming “forward”. So if that’s not happening, move along, she probably ain’t interested.
@26: Anon, assuming the unregistered seagoalie is the same person, admitted that he’s just white knighting here.
@30: Yes, unwanted attention is unwanted. As long as women avoid being “forward”, especially when many of them openly insist that it’s the man’s job to make the first move, they can’t complain when a man makes the first move.
Ironically, it’s the girls who complain that any unwanted approach is “creepy” that give rise to more true creepers. The girl sitting across from me is cute. If I make the approach, it’s much easier to read her “not interested” signs and it gets the whole matter out of the way that much faster. If I sit there trying to work up the nerve to talk to her, trying to figure out what signals she’s sending, wondering if I’m going to be seen as an intrusion, that’s going to add up to a lot of sidelong glances from a withdrawn person. Much closer to I, whiteknight’s creeper than the guy who walks up and says hi.
#26 & #28, I think you need to go back and read the comments again. The women were just making sarcastic “Yeah, sucks to be you, dude! We have no idea what that’s like,” type remarks, as per usual with an “I, anon” piece.
It’s the guys (12, 19, 25) coming out with the angry statements about how women are all pathetic and give mixed signals and complain when you do OR don’t give them attention, and how it’s not fair to men who have to do all the work, etc…”
Even the person who made the ” All men are assholes” post was a man. I know people love shitting on angry feminists, but we aren’t even being angry here. In fact, we’re laughing specifically because this guy is creeped out by this one instance when it happens to women so often that half the time we’re apathetic to it.
#32, my statements are equally applicable to both the pathetic men and women of Seattle. I am an equal opportunity hater of the passive agressive Seattle hippe culture.
A lot of you don’t have basic reading comprehension skills. The original poster referred to himself as “this cocksucker” thereby confirming that he is also gay (unless you think a man who describes himself as a cocksucker can be straight – I don’t think so). I only see a scenario where one gay man was cruising another, and the fact that it happened in a straight sports bar is irrelevant.
@31 if by that you mean I’m aware of misogyny and sexism and how it affects men and women and that I’m concerned with interpersonal ethics, then yes, guilty. That’s kinda what I do.
If by that you mean I’m trying to be a good little liberal who thinks that women are special snowflakes to be honored and I’m trying to woo my way into their pants with the feathers in my cap and diplomatic rhetoric, then sorry, not me.
But thanks, I had never heard of white knighting before and I think it’s an amazing concept/visual. Unfortunately though, I wonder how readily it just gets stuck on a guy with good intentions who is seen as the opposite of misogynist?? I don’t hang out on internet forums trying to impress straight women so I honestly just wouldn’t know. Reminds me of how someone who is passionate about high quality whatever, beer, wine, coffee, is just deemed a snob, no matter what, by people who just don’t get it.
@34 good catch, thank you. I don’t identify as gay, but for what its worth, that’s more often than not what my relationships would be read as.
Also on the topic of reading comprehension, I did confront this “creep” and insisted on him flipping his cards face up and took matters directly into my own hands in this scenario…precisely not passive aggressive…now this is putting a feather in my cap.
I just pooped in my hand.
^^^^^ that’s very cute
^^^^ that’s very cute .
Seriously, I’m not seeing the “Angry Women” thing in this thread. What we do have is a wry comment @5 that it’s kinda hilarious when men whine about this because it’s just what happens to women every day (and, of course, were we to whine about it, we would get labelled, in capitals, as Angry Women).
It also amuses me when the men who harass women in the workplace and excuse themselves with something along the lines of “grow a sense of humour, you frigid dyke” invariably turn out to be the same men who don’t want to work with/play sport with/serve in the military with gay men, because one might make a pass at them and their life would become UNBEARABLE.
None of which excuses the creepiness, staring or pass-making, of course.
@16 And once your looks go and you stop getting that attention, you’ll expend mountains of energy and spend thousands of dollars to get it back. Once you realize that when you’re not the object of male sexual desire you’ll have to like, work and stuff, and be valuable on your merits alone, you’ll suddenly see the value in being a beautiful woman.
@42. Eh, not all women dump thousands into staying young and beautiful. You know, there are women out there who may value other aspects of themselves (like their intelligence, accomplishment, ect.) who can handle not being the hot young thing anymore. I may be young, but I am surrounded by generations of women who don’t really mind being old and unappealing, so I don’t anticipate being too concerned when its my turn. I guess we’ll see when the time comes.
And I’ll cede that being seen as young and attractive can come with its perks, but there is a time and a place for getting hit on. Someone approaching me with a smile and a “How are you?” when I’m dressed up in a bar, scanning the room? That’s okay, and even if I’m not interested, if you’re polite I’ll be polite back.
A guy staring at me non-stop at the coffee shop while I’m trying to work (as an aside I actually do “work and stuff”)? Not okay. Starting an inappropriate conservation about what you want to do to me when I am on the bus or following me when I get off? Also not okay. Getting groped or grabbed by a stranger? Never okay.
Its not that you can’t approach a woman ever; however a woman’s mere presence in public doesn’t mean a guy has the right to encroach in her personal space or sense of safety.
@42: Well said!
Yeah, 42! Yeah indeed.
@41: How many women are there really not working and only using their looks to get by? I don’t know any, but I work and stuff with a lot of women. I also kick ass in school, and I don’t really think that has much to do with my looks.
Just because a woman doesn’t warmly welcome sexual attention all the time does not make her angry or whiney; it makes her human. Some days aren’t awesome, and you just want to buy groceries (or work, or have a drink, or go the post office) without getting eyefucked by a rando. Also: getting honked at while running is my least favorite example of unwanted male attention. Please just don’t do it!
@19: who is proud of punching a gay guy in the face who made a pass at him.
So, let’s say a 55 year old smelly 350lb woman makes a pass at you — are you going to punch her in the face? And if you did, do you think you should get away with it? (Sorry older women of weight.)
I hope some day you get your stupid ass pounded right back by a gay guy who thought you cute enough to cruise. Not all of us are lightweight pushovers. Some of us pack guns, knives, and some of us are HIV+ and bite. So keep your fists to yourself, fuck face.
Insecure straight dudes — if you’re out in public and get cruised, it’s a compliment! Just brush it off with a “no thanks dude” and move along or look the other way.
Give the guy the finger if he creeps you out with repeated staring. You be violent, though, you’re gonna get it someday.
Creepy staring is inappropriate.
Starting shit with someone because you don’t like how they looked at you is juvenile.
The OP lost the high ground when he decided to act like an irrational adolescent.
As for those who think that just because they got away with bashing a gay guy who made a pass at them once means they will get away with it again, think again.
Some gay guys are perfectly capable of beating the crap out of some straight guys who reply to the compliment of being found desirable with violence.
And here is a clue. Just because you are hanging out at a sports bar and you aren’t so flaming that you set the drapes on fire when you walk in a room doesn’t mean that people should assume you are straight. Sports bars are for watching sports and gay guys go there too. They aren’t inherently “straight” bars. And many gay guys act just like many straight guys. That you were at a sports bar and aren’t a flaming queen does not justify being presumed to be straight.
It doesn’t excuse the creepiness, but it doesn’t make it venal sin either.
A simple, “I’m not interested. I’m straight” should be adequate. You know, some of us gay guys actually find the hint of heterosexuality on a guy to be a major turn off, even if it is pretend.
Straight dude here. In my late teens, I went through a period where I was inexplicably attractive and got hit on almost daily. It. Really. Sucked.
When guys imagine being hit on, they usually picture some cute girl they saw across the room. They DON’T confront the reality of being hit on by people three times your age, painfully awkward acquaintances, students you’re just trying to tutor, your best friend’s sister or mother, or your mother’s best friend. (Yes, all of those happened.)
It’s not the strangers that bothered me– those you can politely or rudely dismiss as you see fit (though politeness is better). It’s other people in your life whom you never, ever thought of in a romantic/sexual light, who plainly state their interest in fucking your brains out, and now you need to overcome your shock and find a way to disengage while maintaining the relationship. That can happen at any time, whether you’re busy or not, whether you have the mental energy for it or not. It gets tiresome.
Once I got older and apparently much less cute, I greatly appreciated the status quo of having to do the instigating. Behind shot down sucks, but that only happens when I put myself out there, when I’m mentally prepared for it. If I want to “turn off” that part of my life due to stress or busy-ness or whatever, it’s as easy as not hitting on anyone. This is all much better than continuously having to navigate other people’s unwanted feelings.
Ok ladies, then how does a man who thinks you’re attractive go about initiating a conversation? Because I’m 40 and I still don’t have a fucking clue.
@48: That’s okay. I’m 47 and I still don’t have a fucking clue about men.
Uh straight guys do stuff like that to women all the time and no one would publish an article about it. Why is it such a big deal now when it happens to a guy? Because it was a gay thing? You guys suck.
48 and 49- That’s awful you haven’t learned basic social skills to talk to those of the opposite sex. Maybe more time outside in real- life and not so much on the computer?
46 yrs old and I can kinda do it now.