I hope you address the recent
rough-play-gone-bad death of New York City radio newsman George Weber.
According to reports, Weber met a guy on Craigslist for “violent sex,”
and the guy stabbed Weber to death. It’s a reminder that if you have
these kinds of fantasies—Weber wanted to be bound and
abused—you’re better off doing it with someone you trust and not
with some random trick off the internet. No one should wind up dead
trying to fulfill a sexual desire.

Safety Conscious

First, I want to extend my sincerest
condolences to George Weber’s family and friends.

Second, reading about Weber’s death reminded
me of a joke—this has to be the worst start to a second paragraph
ever—that Jon Stewart told on The Daily
Show. Conservatives were complaining that a biased media wasn’t
reporting any of the good news in Iraq, nothing about all those
freshly painted schoolrooms or, um, all those other freshly painted
schoolrooms; it was all bloodletting, beheadings, and car bombs, all
the time.

“Yeah,” Stewart deadpanned. “We never hear
about the cars that don’t explode.”

What happened to Weber was
horrifying—what John Katehis allegedly did to Weber was
horrifying—and, again, my heart goes out to his friends and
family. And, yes, there are lessons in this horrific crime for anyone
seeking sex and/or love online. But looking for sex online is not, as
some have insisted in the wake of Weber’s murder, so inherently risky a
pursuit that only a lunatic would contemplate it. Remember: We never
hear about the people hooking up online who don’t get brutally
murdered—and unlike cars in Iraq that haven’t exploded, it’s
actually relevant that most people hooking up online aren’t brutally
murdered.

Every day, tens of thousands of
people—hundreds of thousands—find partners online. While
lots of folks online are seeking relationships at sites like Match.com or Christiansingles.com, there are more
people online at any given moment seeking NSA sex at sites like
AdultFriendFinder.com or

Recon.com. (People seeking
relationships can find love the old-fashioned way, at work or by going
out, and many do. And the ones who go online stop lurking online after
they’ve met someone and appeared in an eHarmony commercial. NSAers, on
the other hand, have better odds finding other NSAers online, and
they’re always coming back for more.) If random internet hookups were
even half as dangerous as crimes like this make them seem—if they
were even one-one-hundredth as dangerous—there would be a dozen
online-hookup murders in New York City every day.

No one should be cavalier about safety, of
course; people seeking NSA or fantasy-
fulfillment sex online need
to use common sense and take all reasonable precautions. Insist on a
verifiable exchange of real names and real phone numbers;
meet in person first, in a public place, preferably at a time when you
can’t mess around immediately after your first meeting. And
people seeking the services of a pro should go to one of the dozen or
more websites that host ads from pros along with client reviews.

And it’s always a bad idea to post an
offer for $60 in exchange for sex to the crowd of fakes and freaks who
have overrun Craigslist, as Weber is reported to have done. Meeting
cheap whores via Craigslist ups your odds of hooking up with, say, a
mentally unstable teenage “satanist” with a thing for knives.

Now perhaps Weber, working as a freelancer,
couldn’t afford the services of a $200-an-hour professional dominant;
maybe he had lowballed it on Craigslist a dozen times before and always
had good experiences. Most people who ignore my advice about safety, or
hook up with cheap CL hookers, do live to tell the tale. But when it
comes to fantasies that involve violence or helplessness, someone safe,
sane, and expensive is worth the investment.

Finally, people take calculated risks all
the time for pleasures less essential than sex. You’re assuming a
certain degree of risk—of injury, of death—every time you
get in a car, go skiing, or order the chicken. We do what we can to
minimize those risks (buckle the fuck up, wear a helmet, don’t order
the chicken rare), but we don’t hold up deaths on highways, on slopes,
or after dinner as evidence that people who even think of driving,
skiing, or chickening have to be out of their minds.

The sad fact is that some of us will die at
the hands of our intimate partners. Do what you can to minimize your
risk of being murdered by a sex partner, because some people are
dangerous lunatics—and not just internet hookups. Yes, George
Weber took the wrong guy home, no question. So did Laci Peterson.

My fiancé is bisexual. I fulfill his “man-love” fantasies by strapping it on, but he has
started talking about wanting to have sex with men. I feel like a jerk
for freaking about this, but I’m not willing to entertain the emotional
and physical risks of opening up our relationship. Am I off base here,
Dan?

What The Fuck Is Wrong

With Men These Days

Do not marry this man.

Lots of bisexual guys are capable of
monogamy, as are lots of bisexual gals. (That’s what angry bisexuals
are always telling me, at any rate, in their angry e-mails.) But
this bisexual guy is not. He gets points for being
honest—and I mean that sincerely. He gets lots of points for
telling you now, before the wedding, that being pegged, while
wonderful, isn’t enough and that he’s going to need a little man-love
reality now and then. You might be able to extract a promise from him
under duress, WTFIWWMTD, and get him to agree to sexual exclusivity as
a condition of going ahead with the marriage. But that will just result
in you facing the emotional and physical risks of an open relationship
without the honesty and accountability that can mitigate those
risks.

And to the angry bisexuals: You know I don’t
think monosexuals are any good at monogamy either, right?

My partner and I have been
together for four years. Last year we sought to experiment with another
couple via an adult website. We eventually found a sexy pair who we met
up with, but the experience left me feeling unsure about how
comfortable I am with the idea of the “swinging” lifestyle. I know my
partner loves me and is loyal, and he’s messed around a bit with others
since we’ve been together and that’s okay (so have I, also okay), but
getting together with another couple was a lot more personally
challenging than I thought. How can I get more comfortable and
open-minded about this?

Swinger Wannabe

The problem might have been the other
couple, SW, and not the swinging lifestyle per se. You could give it
another shot, with another couple, and see if you feel differently. If
you do and you don’t, well, then you may have to accept—or, more
to the point, the boyfriend will have to accept—that synchronized
infidelity just isn’t for you.

Download the Savage Lovecast (my
weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

89 replies on “Savage Love”

  1. I’m a happily married female bisexual and I think that it takes a certain kind of personality to be monogamous without feeling like you’re being deprived – and that personality has nothing to do with whose genitals you enjoy touching. If you are a monogamist, you will be a monogamist whether you are with a man or a woman, even if you are attracted to both. Conversely, if you are a polyamorous personality, it doesn’t matter if you’re heterosexual or otherwise – you will not be happy with just one person.

  2. Serpentine : Don’t rag on the men too much, Bi-women have the same exact STI risks. (Change the condoms on your toys, Ladies!) He’s being honest with her, and giving her a choice – she can leave or live with it (in a positive accepting way). And Bi people don’t have twice the temptation, I’ve been monogamous for long stretches without thinking of other people but my SO. Now that I’m single, sure I play around a lot (got out of a bad long term monogamous relationship, and I don’t want to commit for a long while) – but once I commit, I commit and don’t look back (apart from the occasional threesomes WITH the SO if they ask for it first). Some people are disposed to monogamy, others are not. And Bisexuality isn’t risky if you’re safe, get tested regularly and demand the same from your partners.

  3. Serpentine, do you really think bisexuals are attracted to twice as many people as people who have sex with people of one gender? It’s not that simple! Sheesh. Bisexuals don’t want to sleep with everyone they meet. Assuming that is the case is analagous to saying a straight woman is likely to want to sleep with any man she meets. Sexual chemistry is a tricky thing, no matter one’s proclivities.

    I’ll grant you that there is truth to the idea that a woman who has sex with a man who’s had sex with one or more men may raise her chances of getting an STD, though, since it’s easier for a man having unprotected sex to transmit an STD to another man than it would be for him to transmit it to a woman. A lot would depend, however, on how many chances the guy’s taken with his sexual health.

  4. For a long time, I hooked up with random guys on CL, and the worst things that happened to me were 1)one guy was just irritating, and 2)I got chlamydia. Luckily, I was honest with all the folks I had been intimate with, and we all got treated. I told who I think it was from (still had their email address) that I think I got it from, and he said he’d get treated, too. I sent anonymous notes via email to the other folks I had been intimate with, as well. No more “strange” for me now. Not for a long time. I am clean now, and I want to keep it that way. (yes, I used condoms, chlamydia spreads orally, too)

  7. As others have said here AdultFriendFinder is a scam that preys on straight men. There is virtually no chance that you are going to find NSA sex with a woman there. To the extent that there are women on any such site they are looking for a relationship. It doesn’t matter if the site is called “fuck me like the dirty whore that I am and then leave dot com” any woman you meet there is looking for Mr. Right. Or she’s an actual hooker.

  9. I’m thinking of joining adultfriendfinder because CL is played out in my town… any thoughts? I would feel foolish if I paid a fee to get the same adbot crap I get for free on CL.

  11. As a long-time listener to the podcast and occasional online reader of the column, who admires your wisdom, humor and sensibility—and simply because I care, I have to remark about this use of the adverb, “brutally” to redundantly enhance an inherently brutal act. Okay, so maybe it can be argued that there is such a thing as murder that isn’t brutal—perhaps one using carbon monoxide or sleeping pills and booze or an overdose of heroin—but, it seems this usage still falls in with other hyperbolic usages found throughout the media which can’t be argued otherwise. To wit, “brutal rape” and “brutal beating”, which I’m sure you’ll agree are offensively redundant, as if there are such things as beatings and rapes that are not brutal. So, maybe, just to be safe, it’s best to avoid implying there is such a thing as gentle murder.

  13. @ Serpentine:

    Blah, blah, blah. So what you’re saying is that I, as bisexual, will be tempted by the full 6 billion people in the world instead of the 3 billion people that a straight person would be tempted by. Yeah, you’re right, only dealing with 3 billion temptations would be soooooooooo much easier. And by the way, you can contract any number of messed up, shitty diseases from either men, women, bi, straight, gay etc. if you engage in RISKY sex. Do don’t think that you’re going to be all safe and sound just b/c you’re straight.

  14. @ Your name here

    I really hope that you’re being facetious by saying that provides an “insightful” view. Here’s a gem from her Website:

    “You can’t take yourself that serious and think that it is okay. What gay-ness is, is breeding confusion to oneself and others. It is a cancer on society. Once their is gay rights, their will be tranny rights, rights to adopt children and oddly breed children. The right for a man to work bitch make-up in the work place.
    You mean to tell me you give up everything you love to feel the flesh inside your ass for the rest of your life. Wow. What a wonderful connection(sarcasm).

    Come on you can’t take yourself seriously?? The funny thing is people are and it is becoming a society of recklesness easily persuaded puppets that are confused about who they are and what to accept in life. A soceity if carelessness no sense value.

    Everyone should not know what you do, don’t expect everyone else to like it. Don’t fuck over innocent women and children that thought their was a pure GODLY Love.

    I don’t give a damn if you are a homo thug, or flamer. You may hate one another, either way it goes, you get dick in the ass and think that it is right or okay.

    NO.”

    Wow, really makes you think……about why the hell she didn’t use a spell check before posting this drivel. I never went through an “angry bisexual” phase but I can see why some might be a bit touchy.

  17. lisa lisa, excellent point about hypocrisy being a health risk because you can’t tell your friends where you’ll be or when you should be back

  18. bass:

    I was joking. That two-part is so funny and outrageous, I had to post it. As you noted, Alexyss Tylor is bisexual, and I’m not sure where you read that particular comment. I haven’t listend to all her videos, but she does talk a lot about DL and things like that. Given some of her interviews with Terrance Dean and Jermaine Sain, I don’t believe she dislikes gays at all.

    My real gripe with her is her mysticism and her conspiracy theory views. In any case, the delivery is raw–that’s why I love it.

  21. I’m surprised no one has mentioned threesomes for “WTFIWWMTD” and “Swinger Wannabe”. You get to cheat and be faithful at the same time!

    Also, “WTFIWWMTD”, um sweetie, he’s not bisexual (I’m not saying bisexual men don’t exist, just that this guy is not bisexual). He is gay. Really, really gay. The closer he gets to the wedding the more gay he’s gonna get, because the more he’s gonna realize he can’t give up cock for pussy. That is what’s wrong with him. What’s wrong with you is you are dating gay men…who are closet cases. You aren’t dating bisexuals. Ask any of the bisexual men who read Savage Love if this guy is a bisexual…or a raging cock-loving ‘mo closet case. I think your fiance will get a ringing rainbow endorsement.

  23. As a gay male, I stopped hooking up on-line. Not because of some perceived danger, but because the last guy I hooked up with said he was 45, but in reality turned out to be 65 when I met him at the door.

  24. I guess if you’re going to be the first comment, you either need to leave something glowing or just “first!”

    I just didn’t think it was that entertaining or pithy, so its length became a detriment. I like reading a lot of something good, and I didn’t like how SHORT the other questions were, either. I just like it when the column is a little more balanced.

    Sorry I said it was too long. I forget that some people get so surprised and upset when they find that someone on the internet has a differing opinion.

  25. ‘Anyone who has sex with men (mainly straight women & gay men) doesn’t have a problem getting laid because men, of course, are far more into casual sex (and sex in general) than women are.

    While it’s not as easy for straight men to find a woman for casual sex on Craigslist, I do know they’re out there because I’ve met four. Unfortunately, all of them were very overweight so I wasn’t interested.’

    Oh the irony. It burns. Yes, women and gay men may have an easier time finding NSA sex online. But ‘overweight’ is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to their prospects. Most are married and/or too cheap to hire a professional.

  27. Savage for Mayor!. Help a guy out, I live on first hill in the middle of the alchohol Zone [High Gravity]. So where are close places that sell these beers cheep. Some places outside the voluntary zone dont even sell it like safeway on queen anne [top] hill. I bet lots of working people want to know too. P.S. Anybody but nichols for mayor. Beer anyone?

  28. I wish this column was posted about 10 years ago! Which by the way I enjoy a mix of topics and the ‘longer’ commentary.

    My husband and I meant on the internet. When my grandma found out she promptly snail mailed me a newspaper clipping about a murdered woman who meant her murderer over the web. LOL

    Funny my first husband was a wife beater and he did in fact almost kill me, I meant him in high school.

  29. Re. the podcast–

    The woman who can’t cum the way she did when she was 16? One, consider yourself lucky that you ever did and ‘settle’ for cumming during sex, non-hands-free (that’s about as tragic as a guy cumming from a blow job).

    Two, did you by any chance start taking hormonal birth control at 16 or 17 after you had a bunch of sex? It’s amazing how many women I know who got depressed and lost their sex drives with BC and didn’t put 2 and 2 together (most blamed their age or relationships).

  31. I recall a post some months back by a guy who got shit on his dick doing some chick in an inflatable igloo at a party in Paris.

    Now, there had been a promise we were going to hear more about the igloo and so far I haven’t seen anything.

    I’m pretty sure the igloo bears more investigation or at least discussion.

  32. Ahhhhhh words of wisdom from Dan. I loved how he ended the response to SC. It is very true, and what happened to George fell under the “shit happens” clause of life. No, I am not condoning his murder, but sometimes, we take risks and we dont always get to make a clean break.

  33. I think hooking up online is fine for those who want to do it…but I definitely agree that people should be careful.
    My ex for example is an online sex addict and cruises online every waking hour he isn’t sleeping or at work. He hooks up with anywhere from 2-7 people everyday always using fake names and fake pictures for that matter…and he lies to each and everyone of them about a great many things.
    I feel bad for the guys he messes around with. They have no idea they’re getting cialis enhanced sloppy seconds, thirds and fourths.
    It’s that kind of behavior which makes the internet a not so nice place to meet people.

  34. Totally agree with Lisa’s post as well! When I first heard this story I was reminded of an interview Dan did once about one of the many Republican-turned-homo scandals we had last year, and it was interesting to hear the compassion he had for these people, even though they were total hypocrites in their daily life, because the stigma of homosexuality was so strong in their political/religious/whatever circle that they felt their only option was to sneak around in risky environments, because their desires were equally as strong. I felt the same compassion for George when I heard this story, poor bastard couldn’t come out and embrace who he was so he ends up getting knifed by some disturbed kid who also doesn’t know who the fuck he is. It’s this culture of shame our nation has around homosexuality that contributes to a lot of these tragedies. Effing hell, can you imagine what life would be like if everyone wore their freak flag where everyone could see it and one’s sexuality & kinks was no big deal??? Not in our lifetime I suspect. But maybe we’ll get bandanas.

  35. throw_a_shoe_at_Bush: “My ex for example is an online sex addict and cruises online every waking hour he isn’t sleeping or at work. He hooks up with anywhere from 2-7 people everyday”

    I read that and thought “How in the hell does a guy manage to hook up with 2-7 people every day?” and then I came to this…

    “I feel bad for the guys he messes around with.”

    Oh, that explains it. He’s hooking up with guys. Unless they’re outright repulsive, anyone who has sex with guys can easily have 2-7 hookups every day.

  37. There are plenty of monogamous bisexuals. I just happen not to be one of that type, a proud bisexual slut. To be fair, though, within my circle of friends are slutty straights and gays, too. As long as you’re ethical and loving about it, trying as hard as you can to be open and honest and try to avoid hurting anyone, then sluthood is not even remotely shameful, in my humble opinion.

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