I hope you address the recent
rough-play-gone-bad death of New York City radio newsman George Weber.
According to reports, Weber met a guy on Craigslist for “violent sex,”
and the guy stabbed Weber to death. It’s a reminder that if you have
these kinds of fantasies—Weber wanted to be bound and
abused—you’re better off doing it with someone you trust and not
with some random trick off the internet. No one should wind up dead
trying to fulfill a sexual desire.

Safety Conscious

First, I want to extend my sincerest
condolences to George Weber’s family and friends.

Second, reading about Weber’s death reminded
me of a joke—this has to be the worst start to a second paragraph
ever—that Jon Stewart told on The Daily
Show. Conservatives were complaining that a biased media wasn’t
reporting any of the good news in Iraq, nothing about all those
freshly painted schoolrooms or, um, all those other freshly painted
schoolrooms; it was all bloodletting, beheadings, and car bombs, all
the time.

“Yeah,” Stewart deadpanned. “We never hear
about the cars that don’t explode.”

What happened to Weber was
horrifying—what John Katehis allegedly did to Weber was
horrifying—and, again, my heart goes out to his friends and
family. And, yes, there are lessons in this horrific crime for anyone
seeking sex and/or love online. But looking for sex online is not, as
some have insisted in the wake of Weber’s murder, so inherently risky a
pursuit that only a lunatic would contemplate it. Remember: We never
hear about the people hooking up online who don’t get brutally
murdered—and unlike cars in Iraq that haven’t exploded, it’s
actually relevant that most people hooking up online aren’t brutally
murdered.

Every day, tens of thousands of
people—hundreds of thousands—find partners online. While
lots of folks online are seeking relationships at sites like Match.com or Christiansingles.com, there are more
people online at any given moment seeking NSA sex at sites like
AdultFriendFinder.com or

Recon.com. (People seeking
relationships can find love the old-fashioned way, at work or by going
out, and many do. And the ones who go online stop lurking online after
they’ve met someone and appeared in an eHarmony commercial. NSAers, on
the other hand, have better odds finding other NSAers online, and
they’re always coming back for more.) If random internet hookups were
even half as dangerous as crimes like this make them seem—if they
were even one-one-hundredth as dangerous—there would be a dozen
online-hookup murders in New York City every day.

No one should be cavalier about safety, of
course; people seeking NSA or fantasy-
fulfillment sex online need
to use common sense and take all reasonable precautions. Insist on a
verifiable exchange of real names and real phone numbers;
meet in person first, in a public place, preferably at a time when you
can’t mess around immediately after your first meeting. And
people seeking the services of a pro should go to one of the dozen or
more websites that host ads from pros along with client reviews.

And it’s always a bad idea to post an
offer for $60 in exchange for sex to the crowd of fakes and freaks who
have overrun Craigslist, as Weber is reported to have done. Meeting
cheap whores via Craigslist ups your odds of hooking up with, say, a
mentally unstable teenage “satanist” with a thing for knives.

Now perhaps Weber, working as a freelancer,
couldn’t afford the services of a $200-an-hour professional dominant;
maybe he had lowballed it on Craigslist a dozen times before and always
had good experiences. Most people who ignore my advice about safety, or
hook up with cheap CL hookers, do live to tell the tale. But when it
comes to fantasies that involve violence or helplessness, someone safe,
sane, and expensive is worth the investment.

Finally, people take calculated risks all
the time for pleasures less essential than sex. You’re assuming a
certain degree of risk—of injury, of death—every time you
get in a car, go skiing, or order the chicken. We do what we can to
minimize those risks (buckle the fuck up, wear a helmet, don’t order
the chicken rare), but we don’t hold up deaths on highways, on slopes,
or after dinner as evidence that people who even think of driving,
skiing, or chickening have to be out of their minds.

The sad fact is that some of us will die at
the hands of our intimate partners. Do what you can to minimize your
risk of being murdered by a sex partner, because some people are
dangerous lunatics—and not just internet hookups. Yes, George
Weber took the wrong guy home, no question. So did Laci Peterson.

My fiancé is bisexual. I fulfill his “man-love” fantasies by strapping it on, but he has
started talking about wanting to have sex with men. I feel like a jerk
for freaking about this, but I’m not willing to entertain the emotional
and physical risks of opening up our relationship. Am I off base here,
Dan?

What The Fuck Is Wrong

With Men These Days

Do not marry this man.

Lots of bisexual guys are capable of
monogamy, as are lots of bisexual gals. (That’s what angry bisexuals
are always telling me, at any rate, in their angry e-mails.) But
this bisexual guy is not. He gets points for being
honest—and I mean that sincerely. He gets lots of points for
telling you now, before the wedding, that being pegged, while
wonderful, isn’t enough and that he’s going to need a little man-love
reality now and then. You might be able to extract a promise from him
under duress, WTFIWWMTD, and get him to agree to sexual exclusivity as
a condition of going ahead with the marriage. But that will just result
in you facing the emotional and physical risks of an open relationship
without the honesty and accountability that can mitigate those
risks.

And to the angry bisexuals: You know I don’t
think monosexuals are any good at monogamy either, right?

My partner and I have been
together for four years. Last year we sought to experiment with another
couple via an adult website. We eventually found a sexy pair who we met
up with, but the experience left me feeling unsure about how
comfortable I am with the idea of the “swinging” lifestyle. I know my
partner loves me and is loyal, and he’s messed around a bit with others
since we’ve been together and that’s okay (so have I, also okay), but
getting together with another couple was a lot more personally
challenging than I thought. How can I get more comfortable and
open-minded about this?

Swinger Wannabe

The problem might have been the other
couple, SW, and not the swinging lifestyle per se. You could give it
another shot, with another couple, and see if you feel differently. If
you do and you don’t, well, then you may have to accept—or, more
to the point, the boyfriend will have to accept—that synchronized
infidelity just isn’t for you.

Download the Savage Lovecast (my
weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

89 replies on “Savage Love”

  3. the entry was too long? Man, it took you how long to read it? Let a guy talk for god’s sake. Anyway, I liked the end, esp, Dan.

  4. I like it when the letters share a theme. This column seemed to have no theme. But does it follow that I didn’t like the column? No. It merely means that I didn’t like that the column didn’t have a theme that I could see.

    My logic is beyond reproach.

  5. Dan, you is a font of wisdom! That first post is good advice for all those wanting to get their freak on. Pros is pros for a reason and the well reviewed ones are worth their weight in gold.

  6. the first entry may have been long, but if it saves someone’s life b/c it made them more careful with their online escapades, then its worth it.

  7. I agree with your first post Dan. Many people see the news and think “oh, CL is horrible, people should never hook up on CL etc etc”. Truth is, chances of that happening are 1 in 100000000 (i did not count the zeros). But seriously, if it were that bad, we’d be hearing about stories like that every day. The odds are pretty much the same as walking down to the street and getting hit by a car even though you’re standing on the sidewalk… so like Rihanna and TI says 🙂 “Just live your life!”

  9. you know, here’s the thing. george weber, he had a website. http://www.georgeweber.net. he has lots of political opinions on it, from going on about the protestors that hate america, hillary clinton’s shrillness, and how john kerry lost the election in 2004 by hooking up with the ‘hippies’ and ‘supporters of gay marriage,’ he talks about rudy giuliani ‘cleaning up new york’ and removing ‘the hookers’ from places, and while it may sound entirely bitchy at this moment, the reality is that being closeted and publicly homophobic/kinkphobic is something that puts a person at risk. because you don’t tell your friends where you’re going, you can’t ask someone to check up on you after your hookup, you have to stay anonymous at all times, etc. because you have this self-created image to maintain. hypocrisy is a health risk.

  11. However, we’ve surely learned that even finding a willing partner (that is not a psycho killer) can back fire on you. A predominant new anchor is just as public as a politician, perhaps even more so. Have we not yes learned that the American people aren’t ready for the reality that there are gay people everywhere? In our government, our newscasts, our schools, our churches, and for some even our own homes?
    They’re gay people… a perfectly normal state of attraction. Yet, we nearly force them into hiding by allowing the media to jump on every story where a public figure is outed for whatever reason.
    Now, I’m not a public figure. But if I was, I think I’d rather be deep in the closet then come out and rink my career being over simply because I was gay. And, regardless of whether he could legally get fired after coming out, I think we can all be honest in knowing that his career would certainly not advance after the news.

    That’s it… my rant.

  12. However, we’ve surely learned that even finding a willing partner (that is not a psycho killer) can back fire on you. A predominant news anchor is just as public as a politician, perhaps even more so. Have we not yet learned that the American people aren’t ready for the reality that there are gay people everywhere? In our government, our newscasts, our schools, our churches, and for some even our own homes?
    They’re gay people… a perfectly normal state of attraction. Yet, we nearly force them into hiding by allowing the media to jump on every story where a public figure is outed for whatever reason.
    Now, I’m not a public figure. But if I was, I think I’d rather be deep in the closet then come out and risk my career being over simply because I was gay. And, regardless of whether he could legally get fired after coming out, I think we can all be honest in knowing that his career would certainly not advance after the news.

    That’s it… my rant.

    Lots of typos in that first one… oops.

  13. As someone who has hooked up online with pros and non pros, I can say that if you’re not stupid about it, you can be safe and you can both get your needs fulfilled.

    What I love about the first post is that everyone (even my love-Dan) has been glossing over the fact that this kid was 16!!! Yeah he killed the guy, but there’s more than murder in the plot here people. Apparently the dead guy missed his calling in the Catholic Church and instead went into radio.

  14. Don’t forget the safe call. That’s a set of phone calls
    you arrange for in advance with a friend. If you don’t
    call, or if you don’t use the code word, your friend calls
    the police.

    Quote by Susan Wright of the National Coalition for
    Sexual Freedom: “John Robinson was abusing women and
    killing them, starting with pregnant single mothers, then
    women looking for work, and finally trolling for victims in
    chat rooms on the Internet. In the SM community, we
    practice safe, sane and consensual sexual behavior. Our
    groups educate their members about safe sex practices and we
    often discuss issues of consent. It’s important for people
    to be able to access our community groups and events because
    that’s where they can learn how to protect themselves. The
    reason Robinson was caught was because a member of the SM
    community went to see him and complained to the police when
    he abused her and took her toys from her. If she hadn’t set
    up a safe call prior to visiting him, she might have been
    killed too. If she hadn’t filed a complaint with the
    police, Robinson might still be out there killing women.”

  15. WTFIWWMTD, There’s nothing wrong with us men. If you want a man who is only into women, choose one of us who fits the bill. The real question is, why would you choose your fiance as a potential life partner? Look inward, honey.

  16. I think the idea of CL is great, and I wish that this one news item didn’t give people a false impression of the risks of it all. That said, I have given CL chance after chance, and have never met a single person on it who wasn’t a complete and total fucking crazy person.

  17. I would add to Dan’s advice about hooking up on CL (which I have done many times): Always get a picture in advance. Don’t let someone else at the meet-up location pick you up if your date doesn’t show.

    I also make it a personal rule not to drink alcohol on these dates and I prefer to meet at a coffee shop or bookstore where there are plenty of lights and sober witnesses, but that’s just me.

    And just like Dan said, no amount of preparation is going to protect you from some people.

  18. Right on Lisa! I admit to some grim amusement when a bigoted virtuecrat ends up asphyxiated by his own wetsuit and ball gag. If only hypocrisy came with a clear warning label…

  19. Dan, just as you mention how the few instances of a horrible sex partner shouldn’t eliminate NSA sex hook ups, (just be cautious) You could also point out how no one is advocating banishing marriage simply because of all the cases of domestic violence; (again, be cautious.)

  20. Am embarrassed to admit that I regretfully have had a CL hookup. Oh, the shame. I was so naive about it- ok, I was so desperately horny and lonely about it. Was going through a tough time and wanted some naked comforting. Almost didn’t go through with it, but he sounded so nice. After discovering that he was in fact a fed, I am now convinced that the people on CL are crazy, criminals, feds or some combination of the 3 (I guess that means I’m a little crazy, too, since I was trolling the CL. Whatever). But that’s just me. Lucky for me I wasn’t doing anything illegal. Wasn’t trying to solicit sex, just wanted to get laid. Would I try it again? HELLS TO THE NO.

  22. Hi Dan! I love your column, it has given me a lot of wonderful ideas about how to think about and accept various expressions of sexuality.

    I like the post on the bi-guy. I dated a guy whom I thought was bi…I even think he sneaked off once right in front of me at a party to hook up with a guy at a party. He said the guy came on to him, and he said, “No, I’m straight, I have a girlfriend,” but I still felt really weird about it afterwards. It made me feel uncomfortable and gross.

    I read the letter, and I thought about it, and I thought, “You know, watching the guys hook up on Queer As Folk was always super hot. They were really sexy, and the way they went after each other really turned me on.” And I’ve heard that women respond physiologically to any and all sex with a turn-on, even if they don’t mentally.

    So if my ex, or any other future guy was bi, so long as he was UBER-SAFE, that might be something to play around with, so long as I felt as if it was just for sex, and I could know or perhaps participate, or even just watch. (Mmmm!) I’ve heard that gay male couples can go outside of their primary relationships for NSA sex and remain devoted to their primary partners, so if I had a guy who was bi, and was devoted to me, I see no reason not to add a little kink. The only reasons I would be uncomfortable with that is if A) I felt he was being unsafe, B) I felt he was being dishonest, or C) I felt like he was emotionally attached to the guy.

    I never even knew I felt this way before I read this letter!

    Thank you! And thank you for encouraging honesty, openness, acceptance and safety.

  25. In the second letter, the girl wrote “I feel like a jerk for freaking about this” and I totally read it in my head as “I feel like a freak for jerking off about this”. The letter made more sense when I went back and re-read.

    Hehehe!

  29. Dan, please stop recommending people to smoke weed or do extasy to deal with their sexual hung-ups or problems. I’m not being a square by saying this, I’m just concerned that a lot of young people listen to the podcast that are very impressionable and actually may go out and do drugs because they perceive they have a problem sexually when really they’re just young and inexperienced. Drugs cause a myriad of health problems and even death (I’m sure that you know this), and is ILLEGAL, and some states prosecute possession at a much higher level of offense than others (again I’m sure you know this). Please just be a little more conscious of the 16 year olds for instance that listen to your podcast.

  30. WTFIWWMTD: Dan is 100% on target with this – you should not marry this guy! You sound like a sweet, open-minded woman, and you need to realize that you are not a “jerk” or “off base” because you don’t want a husband who has sex with men. That doesn’t make you homophobic, it doesn’t make you judgmental, it doesn’t make you anything but honest.

    You have a right to choose what sort of marriage/long term relationship you want. Your choice is heterosexual monogamy. Your fiance’s is not. That’s perfectly o.k. Although mainstream society may label your fiance the bad guy here, you know he’s not. But neither are you. He’s being honest with you, now it’s your turn to be honest with him and break things off before you add marriage/kids/etc. to the mix of this doomed relationship.

  32. “Entry too long?!!

    This is the future of communication in the age of chat, texting, Facebook and Twitter. Fewer and fewer people have the patience to read anything over a few words long.

    I loved Dan’s response.

  33. Good responses, Dan, but in my experience, Adult Friendfinder is one of the biggest rip-offs on the net. Loaded with fake ads, and their billing policy is a bit dishonest, too, in my opinion. (Your home page will say “your membership expires on …. They don’t tell you that it automatically renews on that date, too). Save your money, if you want my advice.

    Unless you’re a girl or gay male, of course. Then I’m sure your dance card will be filled 🙂

  35. dang.. reality check.. my other 1/2 and I have been trying for mos. to hook up with 3rd on CL.. makes me think maybe we should think some more.. thanks Dan

  37. catsnbanjos: “Unless you’re a girl or gay male, of course. Then I’m sure your dance card will be filled :)”

    Absolutely. Anyone who has sex with men (mainly straight women & gay men) doesn’t have a problem getting laid because men, of course, are far more into casual sex (and sex in general) than women are.

    While it’s not as easy for straight men to find a woman for casual sex on Craigslist, I do know they’re out there because I’ve met four. Unfortunately, all of them were very overweight so I wasn’t interested.

    As for the danger of meeting someone on the internet for sex, Dan does a good job of putting the risk into perspective. Yeah, people get robbed, beaten up and even, as in the tragic case of Weber, murdered. But they’re a tiny fraction of all those having sex. People get killed and maimed in car accidents, but most people don’t.

    People have different levels of being risk-averse. Some women think every man is another Ted Bundy and some people are too afraid to fly because they’re afraid their plane is going to crash (and some do.) Others understand that the vast majority of men are not Ted Bundy (and are, in fact, quite decent human beings) and that the vast majority of planes don’t crash.

  38. “What The Fuck Is Wrong With Men These Days”,

    Nothing is “wrong” with your fiancé. He’s being honest with you about wanting to have sex with men. If he was having sex with other men (or other women) behind your back that would be wrong.

    The fact that you don’t like what he seems to want to do, doesn’t make him wrong or you right. You’re just different, so you need to either accept him as he is or find a man who doesn’t want to fuck men (and there are plenty of us out there.) If you don’t want to take the risk of opening up your relationship, then don’t.

    Too bad he waited to tell you this until you got engaged but at least he made you aware of it before you got married.

  39. Puh-leazze, when you hook up with a bi, you must realize that since they are game for either gender, they are subjected to TWICE AS MUCH TEMPTATION.And since nowadays, the automatic response to temptation is to GIVE IN TO IT, WTFIWWMTD is unquestionably setting herself up for MAJOR heartbreak. Oh, and any woman who dates bi men is also setting herself up for the very real risk of DISEASE. Men who mess with men are exposing themselves to HIGH levels of risk. How does antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea of the entire reproductive system sound to the women here? Ready for a complete hysterectomy before you hit 30? I remember reading about women with grapefruit-sized abcesses in their fallopian tubes in the fifties, courtesy of their husbands and boyfriends. There are a whole SLEW of new,improved diseases out there for women to contract from their bi- boyfriends!

  41. I am not going to hate on CL I met my bf on CL and we’re happy together. There are crazies on the internet, but there are crazies everywhere. Have you ever taken the bus in downtown Toronto?

    Good post Dan!!

  42. I have a question I am 24/7 sex slave but my master is gone for now its been one month he never has been gone that long should I go on to be someone elses girl or should I wait for him I am confused.

  43. Gosh, Serpentine! After your post I think I won’t ever have sex again! With all those new and improved deseases, what can anyone expect? Brrrr!

  44. Ahh the innerwebs.

    The last time I really entertained cyber hookups was about 10 years ago, when not every psycho and their partner was on the web yet. The sites were not pay only yet. And folks were not quite as jaded yet. I feel lucky that I got thru it with no STD’s or other horrible results other than the occasional les than totally desirable bed buddy for the night.

    I did some things that were not all that wise and pr’y would not do again. But as noted previously, hormones and horniness oblige….

    We love you Dan!

  45. Just want to say, I hate that stereotype of Satanists, they are not violent, they do not sacrifice cats or children.

  47. Dan, another excellent bit of advice. People are lousy at evaluating risk. The same person who won’t fly in airplanes has no problem driving a car. Why? Because plane accidents are so rare that they all end up on national news. It takes 4-5 cars and a bunch of bodies to make it past the local cable station. You don’t hear about the other 40,000 highway deaths.

  48. Thanks for bringing in some sanity to the Weber tragedy. My condolences also to his friends & family. The salaciousness of it, of course, has sucked the media attention like a supermagnet. Of course, he didn’t deserve to die. The moral of the story is, I guess, be safe & sane as possible. And follow your advice of common sense and precautions.

  49. All of the guys I’ve ever hooked up with on CL were very nice guys. Some were VERY nervous, and some weren’t very good sex partners, but not a single one had any hint of psycho in him. For vanilla sex, I think CL is quite safe, but if I wanted some BDSM action (and I’ve thought about it), I wouldn’t use CL, and I’d do some SERIOUS screening beforehand.

  50. You, mister savage, are my hero. I read your advice daily and you never cease to amuse me with your sarcastic wit and bitter honesty. I sincerely hope those who read your column/posts get as much out of it as I do. You have a talent for writing. The response to the craigslist concern is my favorite thing you’ve written so far. perfect ending.

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