My roommate is astoundingly hot. Her room is being repaired (the ceiling fell in), and, at her request, I’m letting her and her boyfriend sleep in my room while I take the couch. I’ve been able to contain my attraction just fine up to now, but the minute she entered my space I had this feeling that all bets are off. I’m considering spying on her with a hidden surveillance cam. If I had video of this girl naked, let alone being fucked, I could happily beat off to the footage for the rest of my life. Obviously it’s a breach of trust, and I’m a shitty roommate for considering it. I have a few concerns. Is this normal? Assuming that there’s no way she could find out and that I kept the video to myself and myself only, would it be so wrong? What is her reasonable expectation of privacy once she enters my room?
Thanks In Advance
Before we get to your tech-related queries, TIA, a word about a young man in Florida with tech-related troubles.
America’s current teen-sex panic—it’s always something—is about “sexting,” teenagers sending each other pictures of their sometimes-underage junk, their frequently underage racks, or their young and dimpled/pimpled rear ends. (Oh, if only we could return to the comparatively innocent and entirely fictional days of “rainbow parties”!) Shortly after the kids went crazy for sexting, the authorities went crazy for prosecuting kids for sexting. Take Phillip Alpert, an 18-year-old in Florida who got mad at his girlfriend and forwarded a digital photo of her naked to dozens of her friends and family.
This Alpert kid (he had only just turned 18) pulled an asshole move—the gaping asshole of moves—and he owes his girlfriend, her friends, and her family an apology, restitution, and a pound of flesh. (And I mean that pound.) A just, proportionate punishment might involve, say, nude pictures of Alpert being displayed on a billboard in Times Square. For a year. Instead, Alpert was convicted of distributing child porn and “sentenced to five years probation and required by Florida law to register as a sex offender,” CNN reports. “You will find me on the registered sex offender list next to people who have raped children, molested kids, things like that,” Alpert told CNN.
A message for concerned parents, outraged school officials, and teen-sex-obsessed prosecutors: We’re gonna have to either make it illegal for teenagers to own camsphonescomputers, or we’re gonna have to give them drugs to delay the onset of puberty until after they’re 18. If we’re unable or unwilling to do those things—technology is hard to contain, and delaying puberty could have unwelcome health consequences (although it would have spared Levi Johnston’s DNA from the ignominy of mixing with the Palins’)—then the intersection of horny teens and newer technologies is going to require us to rethink the simplistic application of laws that criminalize the possession and distribution of sexty (ugh) pictures, particularly in cases where they were created by teenagers, for teenagers.
Yes, Alpert was a douchebag; yes, it was wrong for him to forward that picture to embarrass and humiliate his girlfriend. But if Alpert is a child pornographer and a sex offender, so are millions of today’s teenagers. They’re all e-mailing each other pictures of their junk. Making an example of one unlucky asshole who got caught isn’t going to stop teenagers from sexting each other anymore than making an example of hundreds of thousands of unlucky pot smokers stopped people from smoking pot.
Okay, TIA, on to your question: While it’s normal to contemplate, even obsess about, something you know is wrong, secretly videotaping your roommate, even if she’s “in your space,” isn’t just an asshole move. It’s an illegal move in most places, and the consequences for asshole moves involving digital images, as illustrated above, can be dire. And until submitting to
videotaping is widely understood to be a known risk of sleeping in someone else’s bedroom, your roommate and her boyfriend have an entirely reasonable expectation of privacy.
As for no-way-she-could-ever-find-out, I could sneak into your house and use your toothbrush as a sound, and you’d never find out. And although it would hurt me more than it would hurt you, TIA, it would still be wrong—even if there was no way short of DNA testing that you would ever find out. And while you may intend to keep the video to yourself—such the gentleman—what if your laptop gets stolen? What if you take your computer in for repairs and someone makes a copy? Digital images—photos, video, whatever—are too easy to lose control over.
Don’t do it, TIA.
I am a 30-year-old female with a live-in boyfriend. While we’re not without our problems, the relationship is wonderful. My only big issue is that I don’t enjoy cohabitation. Before living with my boyfriend, I lived in a studio apartment, my little castle, and I relished having my own space. I would love to go back to us each having our own domicile, but I am afraid of losing him. The thought has been met with such criticism by my friends that it makes me wonder. Is it unusual to want your own space?
Independent But In Love
I know a nice, loving couple—married, straight, with kids—who each have an apartment in the same building. The kids’ rooms are in mom’s; the meals are prepared and eaten at dad’s. They decided to live like this because, like you, they both liked having their own spaces.
You can do it, too, IBIL. Stop worrying about what other people think and start being honest with your boyfriend about your preferred living arrangement.
As you’ve proven in the past with “santorum” and “saddlebacking,” you have considerable influence. So to reward the Vermont legislature’s recent decision to override the governor’s veto and legalize same-sex marriage in that state, why not encourage your listeners and readers to purchase products made in Vermont? And Iowa? Think of it: Your millions of fans could trade in chocolate body paint for maple syrup as the sexy edible substance of choice, all the while supporting this legislative victory and (we hope) spurring others like it.
D.J.’s Fellow Gayby
P.S. I have absolutely no stake in Vermont’s economy. I just want my dads to be able to marry
one day in the state where my family lives.
That day may come more quickly than we think, DJFG, thanks to the bravery of elected officials in Iowa and Vermont. As for rewarding those states: Like most Americans, I consume way more corn syrup than a person should (that shit’s in everything), so Iowa is covered. And I will make sure the next bottle of maple syrup I purchase is from Vermont—but I’ll be pouring it on my pancakes, thanks, not my boyfriend. Food is for after sex, people, not before, and never, ever during. Food is not a sex toy, not even chocolate.
ATTENTION JOURNALISTS: The deadline for this year’s Sexies—the Sex-Positive Journalism Awards—is approaching. The Sexies recognize writers “who stick to high journalistic standards” while reporting about sex “in a climate of repression and misinformation around human sexuality.” More info at
www.sexies.org.
What’s with the hating on erotifood? You’ve got some odd boundaries, Dan.
How about sending some Vermont Maple Syrup to the A-holes in power of the gay-marriage-hating states out there?
Best line: And although it would hurt me more than it would hurt you, TIA, it would still be wrong
gee I wouldn’t have thought Dan would be so particular on food not a sex toy
Why exactly is food+sex a bad combo?
Isn’t it pretty normal for each partner in a long-established couple to claim some personal space of their own? I.e., one partner has a shop where they work on their own projects, the other has domain over the kitchen. Or they have separate desks. I can’t actually think of any lasting couple where each person doesn’t have their own den claimed somewhere.
Maybe try getting a bigger apartment first? A two-bedroom isn’t much more expensive than a one-bedroom. Sleep in separate beds if you want, or take turns between the two rooms. It sounds like a more convenient step than having someone move out, and it might provide enough personal space for each partner.
I do not think that states should be rewarded for not discriminating. Equality should be standard, not extraordinary.
TIA
Why don’t you tell your roommate how you feel? You never know what may happen
As for IBIL, I understand completely. My boyfriend practically lives at my place, and sometimes I just want to scream. I say the standard “if he really loves you he will…” applies here
Dan, what’s so wrong with using food as foreplay? As long as you are careful where you put it, I see no problem.
I hate firsties.
What’s a “sound”?
YNH: I completely agree.
Good column. Although I’m inclined to say it’s even more shitbaggy than Dan pointed out to film a girl and her boyfriend. Her b-o-y-f-r-i-e-n-d. Step the hell off, fuckwad.
My sister is an Illinoian lesbian. Here’s hoping she and her partner can get married here so her recently-laid-off girlfriend will be able to get medical benefits through the school my sister teaches at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_(naut…)
Any object inserted into the urethra for sexual pleasure.
Food and sex is stupid.
I first fell in love with Dan when he called sex+food: boring breeder faux kink, or something like that.
God, why would anyone want to get sticky, sweet crap all over you. yuck.
Not even turkey gravy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_(medi…)
I would never distribute nude pics of a girlfriend without her permission… except this morning on my way to work, I distractedly left my blackberry at the counter of a bakery I stopped at for breakfast. Although I’d pretty much forgotten about them up until that moment, as I raced back to the bakery, I was acutely aware of that small album of snapshots, an album I’d always meant to remove from my camera but had never gotten around to, sent to me by my girlfriend late one booze fueled evening…
for TIA:
Unless you have always had a camera setup in your room (such as a webcam broadcasting your solo spankfests 24 hours a day), and your roommate hand knowledge of this (the webcam, not the pecker strangling), and slept in your room willingly, you are out of luck, legally and morally.
But let’s face it, you don’t want video of her boyfriend. You are more likely to want video of her walking around the room naked after a shower, or her touching herself the one night her boyfriend doesn’t come over.
The best advice would be to forget it, because if you don’t, you’re likely to get caught trying to hide a camcorder in a pile of laundry. And even if she doesn’t press charges, her boyfriend will pummel you, the friendship will be ruined, either you or her is going to have to move out, and you’ll never get anywhere near screwing her or anyone she knows for the rest of your life. And chances are, you won’t get any really good useable footage anyway, it’s not worth the risk.
It would be a better risk telling her how hot you think she is, and hoping that the next time she has a fight with her boyfriend, you have a warm, sympathetic, rock hard penis for her to cry on.
“Food is not a sex toy?” “FOOD IS NOT A SEX TOY?” Umm… Dan? Excuse me? Food is a perfectly wonderful sex toy; one of my, and many youngins’ first sex toys. I have been studying human sex and sexuality for many years and I know of nothing wrong with using a condom-covered cucumber as a pervertable insertable, let alone rubbing some jell-o on your girlfriend’s tits or your boyfriend’s wang, for a lil post-coital dessert. Jeez, Dan, if this was a joke – not funny. If you were being serious – I’m seriously disappointed!
IBIL: My fiance and I also like having our own space. We have separate bedrooms (which is also because I snore like a bulldozer). Might be a bit more economical than keeping entirely separate apartments or homes.
@BVUGrad2003 Sounds like a great idea! my family is in vermont and I’ll be there next week. Maybe I’ll pick up some little bottles for sending away!
darcy, a sound is an object inserted into the urethra
Yay, Dan. Thank you for bringing awareness about the ridiculous child porn charges being brought against “sexters”. What really tears me up about it is that these asshole prosecutors probably see no correlation with the fact that Sally Sue Jenkins showed them her titties behind the high school when they were all 14 back in 1959, and no one screamed “child porn” back then. Just because we have a digital record, the government can now punish us for what we choose to do with our bodies? No, unacceptable. Let the parents punish their children (or not) for digitally flashing their classmates; the government has no business here.
Also, I vote no on food in the bedroom, as well, though I welcome many other things. And I celebrate others’ freedoms to bring whatever the hell they want to their own bedroom!
I don’t think it’s “wrong” but I just don’t get using food in the bedroom. It’s *food.* I love it — I love eating it, I love making it — but I love it most on my plate. I mean, go ahead if you want to, but you’re not going to convince me to do it.
The chocolate syrup and whipped cream thing always mystified me.
There’s nothing wrong with you, IBIL. If you feel like you need your own space, well, that’s perfectly normal. We all have SOMETHING that we’re a little OCD about, and rarely, if ever, do our partners share that particular tick. I agree with the previous commentor that you should try a bigger apartment, and carve out your own “castle” there, first. First of all, this will probably save you on rent over two studio apartments, and, second, it’s less likely to hurt his feelings. Also, figure out if there’s anything he’s doing in your shared space that’s particularly bothering you, and TALK to him about it. The compromises get bigger as the relationship progresses. If that doesn’t work, maybe your own spaces are best. In fact, there’s some of the opinion that living apart is actually BETTER for a relationship, as you tend to value the time you DO spend together more, and, well, being apart can get you much hotter and more bothered than having him 3 inches away at all times. But you are going to have to approach this delicately, or you’re going to kill the relationship. Lesson: think first, move in together later.
What about sending Maple Syrup and Ears of Corn to our own state representatives? (For those of us who don’t live in Vermont, Iowa, or Connecticut.) I would love to see Springfield offices covered with more corn and syrup than they know what to do with!
Mmmm…. doughnuts…. boobies….
TIA- Don’t be an asshole. If you want naked pictures or you want to fuck your roommate, then see if she is game.
Conservatives: Charging kids as kiddie pornstars makes no sense. Child porn is a serious crime that exploits and harms children. If you want to make it a crime for the under 18 crowd to take pictures of their goods and then post it/send it, then fine, pass a law, put it on the books and make it a crime. Just don’t equate it with some sick, dirty old man who gets off on abusing/fucking kids. It’s not the same thing and you know it.
Finally, food: I like giving blowjobs. I like whipped cream and chocolate sauce. Put them together….mmmmmmm….delicious 😉 Nothing wrong with the occasional carrot, bannana or zucchini insertion, either. It beats using your roommates toothbrush as a “sound”, haha.
A sound is something you put into your urethra.
I’m with Dan on the food-and-sex-don’t-mix thing. I’m so happy to hear you say it. All these years I thought I was a prude… just don’t like the mixing of aromas. Always has grossed me out. The only thing i want on his penis is my mouth!
If we’re not going to punish teenagers for distributing child porn, then we need to get rid of the strict liability laws regarding child porn, where someone who has no idea that the amateur porn depicts a minor can be arrested and put away for years (and registered as a sex offender). Otherwise, we’re allowing the teens to impose harsh consequences on others without having to worry about any for themselves — not a good way to raise the next generation of responsible adults.
No food + sex??? I guess that means the Brussels sprouts are out, then. Bummer.
FYI – It was Iowa’s Supreme Court that ruled in favor of same-sex marriage, not the elected officials/legislature. Not that some extremely ugly-sounding people aren’t wailing and gnashing and trying to force it to a head, so to speak, in the legislature. To change our State Constitution is at least a three year process, so we’re good for now.
Hey TIA,
My b/f videotaped me having sex with him w/o my knowledge or permission the week before I moved out of our shared apt. We’d decided to breakup and this was some sad, last time breakup sex that he, for some reason, wanted to record for beating off posterity. He told me about it after we’d been broken up for some time – I’d gone back to the apt to get my half of the deposit when he finally moved out of there. I was pissed, hurt, felt violated, disgusted etc. He said he destroyed the tape but who knows? Any guy who’d be shitty enough to tape someone w/o their consent is a guy who’d be shitty enough to lie about getting rid of the tape. Don’t be shitty TIA. Don’t break the law. Don’t violate this woman’s privacy. About a decade later I still feel hurt and betrayed and am still wondering if that tape is out there. Don’t do this to your roommate. She’s a person not just a “hottie.” Try being a person, too.
I have no idea what a ‘sound’ is…please someone explain??
A Sound is a metal rod with balls on the ends inserted into a man’s urethra. Allegedly, when using the ones of increasing size (like guaging and stretching a body piercing) one can expand the size of one’s urethra to the point that it can fit another penis inside it.
Thanks Dan for standing up for all of us who feel like food/sex is silly. I always think it seems like one of those thing that people who want to “spice up their marriage” do because they’ve seen it in movies. Not that I have never eaten a piece of string cheese out of my boyfriend’s ass, but I did it to be silly. If you enjoy getting all sticky with something other than your god-given bodily fluids, rock on, but there are so many kinds of sensation play that **don’t** lead to ant infestations. Hot wax, ice, electricity, and rubber bands are far more sanitary in the bedroom than chocolate syrup and fruit salad.
Yeah, I don’t know what a “sound” is, either. Urban Dictionary wasn’t any help.
And seriously, why can’t food be for during-sex play? I think it’s too sticky and gross, but I thought that consent/safety were the only axiom in Dan’s sexual ethics. You can be safe with a little bit of chocolate, and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t mind.
oh, ok, now I know what a sound is. Hmmm…
Anti-child porn laws are to protect children. So his girlfriend no longer get protected just because she humored her boyfriend with nudie pics, and then later on decided to break up? Alpert distributed naked pictures of an underage girl. Pictures that are now out of his control. If the pictures didn’t spread beyond the initial recipients, it’s because his friends are more decent than he is. Her pictures could be all over cyber-space, and she is not an adult. That is wrong, and child porn. That is something that shouldn’t happen to a child, no matter the circumstances. What she did doesn’t merit random creeps jacking off to your image for years to come, or even having school admins discovering them on some confiscated phone. Once someone forwards something like that, then you cannot control who sees it.
I agree that getting a bigger place can help a lot. My boyfriend and I recently moved to a smaller town. I was really upset to leave the beautiful metropolis in which I used to live. So one thing we did when we moved here is get a 3-bedroom, 2-bathroom house, which cost us practically nothing because of the general shittiness of the town. We both work from home, so it was pretty important that we each have “offices” and space.
Now we can go all day without seeing each other if we feel like it. We can have loads of house-guests. And we haven’t had any co-habitation blues.
I read a Savage Love letter a long time ago where a girl talked about how, when she was a little kid, her mom stole her electronic toothbrush. The mom blamed her friends, but then the girl found out that her mom was using it as a sex toy!
All respect that is due, nonudiepics4u, some creepy dude could be beating off to the images found in a Teen Vogue and you don’t see the authorities coming after the editors or photographers for that magazine, even though it is a publication mainly of scantily-clad underage girls. Just because “some random creeps could jack off” to an image DOES NOT make Alpert guilty of distributing child pornography. There are always random creeps out there, and they will find a way to satisfy their creepy urges. Alpert had no intent whatsoever, he did a shitty thing that his friends and family should (and hopefully did) punish him over. He does not deserve to be locked up or registered a sex offender for this. Nor do the people at Teen Vogue, just so we’re clear. I’m not saying that the magazine is doing wrong, I just think the government is going way overboard on prosecuting the sexters.
Food with sugar in it can cause yeast infections if it gets in/near your vagina/vulva. You’ve been warned!
So: previous generations (including my own) bring on STDs; patents tether their kids/teens to cellphones (considering ‘cellphones’ 50 years ago meant “within earshot of mom yelling”; swimmin’ holes laden with lead and mercury and nitrates, ads bombarding/brainwashing kids with messages; countries attacking us through no fault of the kids growing up experiencing it; fewer and fewer trees to scrawl initials of they and their crush with ‘heart-arrow’; food making them obese for reasons unbeknownst to them; castor oil has been replaced by barbituates to control invented maladies such as ADD et al.; and so now too we have Big Brother suppressing their sexuality further, as if threat of AIDS death wasn’t enough; also computers replacing most of what would have been skills/jobs a generation ago, certainly leaving some, I’m sure, feeling irrelevant (innate archetypes don’t change, just their need in society)
Sounds to me like we’re raising a generation of Ted Kozinskys folks.
Next time a 60-90 yr old starts with the “you kids nowadays have it so easy! Why, when I was a kid..” .. It’s getting harder and harder not to laugh in their face
Cohabitation: I too hate cohabiting with my lovers. It’s almost pathologically bad if I do. I just start to feel like a trapped rat, no matter what… and a bigger apartment won’t help. It’s about control, not space.
Reasoning: no matter how compatible, each partner is going to have some wildly annoying habit or activity that they adore but their partner can’t stand being around. Could be watching football with beer buddies at top volume on a Sunday afternoon, could be smoking cigs, or pot, or cooking meat, or singing at top volume in the shower at 1am on a school night, or maybe gossiping and talking about clothes ad nauseum, filling the house with papier mache, whatever.
Sometimes one partner has friends that the other partner just can’t stand. And yet, my home is my castle – who are you to say who I can and can’t have over, and when? And who are you to say that I have to endure the company of idiots in my own home?
Or maybe one person just gets obnoxious from time to time – either from drinking or just because they’re exuberant and loud. I’d really like the power to kick them out of my place until they settle down again, and I’d really like the ability to leave their place if they start acting annoying or they try to tell me what to do. That way I don’t have to “make” them stop or “force” myself to put up with it, or squelch myself if I’m the one who doesn’t feel like being quiet. And I don’t have to be judgmental – I can just say, “I’m going home now, have fun” and let them do their thing.
So for me, having my own place is a matter of territoriality, control, and security.
Strangely I don’t mind living with roommates, in fact I prefer it – I’m too introverted and rigid otherwise – but my roomies and I don’t have all these “relationship” expectations, although we enjoy hanging out and doing things together.
So don’t feel bad about needing your own space! I wouldn’t do it any other way.
Maybe I’d reconsider if I had a very long time to get used to a lover being around. Sometimes even with separate apartments, you can just grow together, and it doesn’t matter so much where you spend your time together – you’re kind of “living together” in a collective space that includes two separate apartments. Then by the time you do finally consolidate, it’s really anticlimactic and not that big a change.
Yeah I too don’t know what a “sound” is, though it brings to mind “sounding the depths,” which is totally gross in this context, and no doubt exactly what Dan meant.
To YNH:
I’d agree with your comment in theory, unfortunately, we don’t live in theory nor do we live in a perfect world. And if the suggestion is to support (not reward) states that don’t discriminate, then I’m all for it.
I’m from Canada, so I buy Canadian maple syrup. What else does Vermont have :
Love the column!
and let’s not forget Chinese eggplant. Uhmm yummy eggplant.
If we shouldn’t reward states for being non-discriminatory, does that mean we should punish the states that are (discriminatory)? Last I checked the USPS won’t ship feces to state capitols. While yes, by all means it should be standard, rewarding is a better idea as humans are more likely to shrug off a punishment than they are to not pay attention to an award, or other people with awards. It’s why millions of idiots tune into the Oscars, afterall. And everything else regarding award ceremonies (sorry Dan! but the Sexies don’t really mean shit!).
I’ve switched to King Arthur flour (Vermont) and wrote to them AND Gold Medal (Minnesota) to tell them I’m buying from GBTL friendly states when ever I can. Spread the word! Look where products come from! Vermont makes more than syrup!
Me and my now husband (no thanks to Prop 8) have been together for 15 years and have never lived together. We even bought a house across the street from each other once wed last Sept. It’s awesome and we wouldn’t do it any other way.
That TIA smells fake. Does the BF live there as well? If not, then why is she not sleeping at his place, and if so, why not mention him as another roommate?
The weird juxtaposition of events sounds like a “How’d that happen?” Plus it’s such a fratboy fantasy, a hot roommate who you could not only spy on, but record for all posterity.
Dan answered a more pressing issue about sexting, and used the letter to illustrate some sexual mores on privacy, which is all good. But the letter still smells fake to me.
wow. a toothbrush as a sound? ouch!
RE: calgaryartblog.com- Vermont cheddar, Green Mountain Coffee, and of course, Ben & Jerry’s.
Continuing to consume corn syrup at the same rate as before isn’t really a reward for the state of Iowa. As for Vermont, virtually all maple syrup in the world is produced in Vermont or Canada, so there aren’t really huge maple syrup industries in non-gay-marriage jurisdictions to punish. Why not instead promote doing business in these places the way you promoted the Utah boycott?
food+sex= yeast infections, irritation and possible gross-ness.
duh. think about it logically for a mere millisecond and it totally makes sense.
Dan, sorry I missed you a fort night ago in IC IA. Shtuff happens. FYI, the nine wise guys & gals in Des Moines are not elected. Appointed by the gov. See ya next time.
–noun
11. Surgery. a long, slender instrument for sounding or exploring body cavities or canals.
TIA should just surf teh interwebs for some porn that is amateurish, has a chick that resembles his roommate, and is in a room that’s similar to his room. There’s so much porn out there, I guarantee he’ll find something close.
Pretend it’s your roommate and pretend you webcammed it yourself and beat off to that.
Green Mountain Gringo Salsa is made in Vermont, as well as beers from Long Tail Brewing and several other microbreweries.
Bruegger’s Bagels is headquartered there, but their bagels suck.
“Food is for after sex, people, not before, and never, ever during. Food is not a sex toy, not even chocolate.”
Considering the number of women who have utilized phallic vegetables as dildoes (sometimes as the first they ever used) I’d have to disagree with
you on that one. A well-washed carrot, cucumber or zuchinni can make a fine (and recession-savvy) sex-toy, and has the extra bennefit of tasting great in an after-sex salad. For that matter, try growing your own dildo in your garden. If you’re really worried about the danger of yeast infections (which I suspect is Dan’s concern) just put a condom on the darn thing. Also consider that they make genuine sex-toys in the shape of fruits and veggies…I once saw a cob of corn vibrator, and I’m still curious to know what all those little bumps would feel like going in.
Darcy, don’t feel bad, we are learning together. TheUrbanDictionary.com defines Sounding as:
“The practice of inserting plastic or metal ‘sounds’ (long thin and very smooth objects) into yours or someone elses uretha. Ultimately leads to streching of the uretha so that larger objects (such as a finger) can be inserted in the penis.”
To think, I once paid a urologist for doing that.
darcy, whatever you do, DO NOT GOOGLE IT.
also, wondering if Savage’s food/sex issue is somehow linked to his fattie-hate issues as well.
@darcy A urethral insert (and yeah it hurts about like what you’d expect). Careful kiddies – do NOT try this at home unless you really know what you’re doing, you can do some major damage.
This is pretty sound: http://gay.stockroom.com/Flowerpin-Ureth…
@YNH You’re right, they shouldn’t be rewarded for equality, but the current Vermont Legislature and Iowa Supreme Court should be rewarded for courage! I’m eating pancakes with Vermont maple syrup for breakfast all week long!!! – Yum!
@Sari Yeah Dan! Why is the sound okay and some nice subtle and delicious whipped cream or chocolate sauce bad? Chocolate is MOST DEFINITELY a sex food. Maybe Dan is one of those gays who immediately looks for the towel after getting spooged on! Geez Dan, I never pegged you for a clean freak!
“Allegedly…one can expand the size of one’s urethra to the point that it can fit another penis inside it.”
WTF!?! Are you serious? Okay, that forces me to share a blatantly off-topic “weird sex fact” I just learned about yesterday. No, I’m not some bestiality freak, this is just bizaare/interesting.
Has anyone else ever heard about how Spotted Hyenas mate? The females are the larger and more muscular animals,
partly because of male hormones they get while developing. The result of this apparently, is they develop
“masculinized” genitals.
Female hyenas do not have what we would recognize as a vaginal opening, or labia. What they have is a “pseudo-penis”, an enormous clit that is like 6″ long erect.
Mating is accomplished by the male inserting his penis in the um…
“passage?” that runs through the inside of her clitoris and apparently doubles as vagina and urethra. I’m not making this up.
If thats not weird enough for you, they also give birth through their
(ouch) clit.
Hmm, since when is video surveillance in your own home illegal? Some states require businesses to warn with little tiny stickers that there are cameras in use, but home surveillance(without sound) is always allowed.
Honestly? How many times can the question “What is a sound?” be asked? Either look it up on your own or actually look to see if the question’s been answered already. Christ!
I went to college in Vermont and LOVE IT that the state has legalized equal-rights marriage. In fact, I’ve already teasingly suggested my freshman roommate take the train up from NYC and get hitched to his boyfriend of nearly 7 years.
There are lots of great Vermont products and businesses you can support no matter where you live. If you’re in the market for an iPod or any other Apple product, I highly recommend going through Small Dog Electronics. They’re Vermont-based, sell new and refurbished Apple products, and have a great business ethic. I bought a refurbished 30 Gb iPod from them and was beyond satisfied.
Just don’t buy an iPod to watch video you secretly shot of your hot roommate. That would be wrong. 😉
Darcy, that was my first reaction, too. How does one use a toothbrush as a “sound”? Is this a typo? A mysterious gay thing? Please explain, Dan.
Wow, I never expected to feel judged by Dan Savage. I didn’t know anyone could be THAT kinky without breaking several state and federal laws. And all because when I was seventeen, I covered my boyfriend’s penis in chocolate pre-blowjob. I have a vague sense that being a totally irredeemable perv shouldn’t be that easy!!
Yeah, what is a sound?
Back in the day, two people living together equaled two separate rooms. If they wanted to get all racy or couldn’t afford one bedroom apiece, they slept in the same room in separate, cozy twin beds. More power to the snugglebugs who can stand the body heat, snoring, farts, and uncomfortable neck angles of cosleeping, not to mention those who are the same level of neat freaky or slobbish, but I for one am going to embrace the old school style. Don’t like how I leave clothes all over the floor? Great! Good thing you have your own room. Afraid I’m going to kick you in my sleep and gash you with my toenails? Not to worry! I have my own bed.
The only long-term marriages I’ve ever seen work out, meaning they’re still married decades later AND they don’t hate each other’s guts, are the ones where they spent months, some times years doing their own thing, often in different countries.
Here’s to space!
I agree with posters here who suggest that Dan was unusually stern on condemning food and sex as a combination.
Vegetables as dildos make sense. And as far as sweet foods causing yeast infections is concerned, it seems this can easily be remedied by avoiding said foods, which surely can still result in satisfied palettes (Cream anyone? It’s just fatty right? Not sweet…).
But most importantly to me, it seems that in condemning food, Dan should condemn all other kinks.
If Dan supports consensual BDSM (and so do I) for example (which also represents risks), I see no rational objection to the consented inclusion of food as a sex toy.
It sounds like one of Dan’s ill-thought-out dogmatic statements that he later retracts… We’ll see.
In the meantime, I say apologise to the food fetishists Dan, like you did to the pee and poo fetishists!
Dan, Re: food-sex. After a most unfortunate incident with my boyfriend and some marshmallow fluff, I must concur.
Hey Dan
Food fight!!!! 😉
Usually I agree with Dan, but this time though, I think his statement about the bf who sent on photos needed a bit of a caveat. While he doesn’t deserve to be labeled a “sex offender” or go to prison for up to 5 years, he does deserve to be an example of the bad legal (like huge fine and/or going to jail for some time) results to forwarding nude picts of anyone. If that isn’t an example of emotional abuse within a relationship, I’m not certain what is. Which is illegal in some states, if it can be proven.
Yeah, I googled sound and got nothing.
@ huh? : Sound has been defined a half dozen times already. Check the other replies to this post, and you’ll get your answer. That’ll spare you confusion and frustration. 😉
re:strawberry_limonade and anyone else who wants to know what VT has to offer besides syrup
Vermont Teddy Bear company?
They even have Pride bears.
http://www.vermontteddybear.com/Category…
for FUCKS SAKE people, the God-Damn “sound” thing was explained about half a dozen times in the previous 77 posts! pull your collective heads out of your shitholes for 5 minutes and read somethings other people have written, ya might fuckin’ learn a thing or two.
Now, about the hyena’s: basically what you’re saying is that got some big ol’ meat curtains?
That “sound” you heard was Savage Dan screaming after he stuck the wrong end of the toothbrush into his…
yeah, what’s a sound?
Some Old Nobodaddy wrote: “That TIA smells fake. Does the BF live there as well? If not, then why is she not sleeping at his place, and if so, why not mention him as another roommate?”
It is possible; I was in a situation like that because my roommate and I had a spacious apartment with two large bedrooms. His girlfriend (who was my friend for a long time before they started going out) had a tiny room in a house with seven roomates. They spent 99 percent of the nights in our apartment [Later at my request, they switched to 75 percent at our apartment and 25 percent at her place so I could have the apartment to myself some of the time.]
As for IBIL wanting her own space – my wife and I are very compatible, yet when we bought a house we got one with two extra tiny bedrooms so we each have a room that is not shared. Works for us.
I think the term “erotifood” is enough to warrant public condemnation.
jd: it means he’s gonna jam the guy’s toothbrush in his pee-hole.
Food and sex are bad combo because it is a boring breeder kink.
A sound is a thing you stick up your penis. Like some kind of rod. I don’t see how this could ever be pleasant, but i’m a girl, so maybe i don’t get it. Each to his own.
Yes, TIA, you ARE a complete asshole. It’s bad enough contemplating about making videos of some poor girl, but thinking that since she’s in ‘your space’, all bets are off? What, like she’s ‘asking for it’ or ‘what does she expect’? She’s a goddamn human being no matter where she steps, you prick, and walking into your room doesn’t void her right for privacy and human decency.
Here’s a good measuring stick – what’s the amount of privacy she should expect inside your room? The same amount of privacy she should expect OUTSIDE of it.
I really don’t want to think of what other situations you believe give you the right to strip women of their privacy. Eurgh.
Darcy: If you google “sounding site:thestranger.com”, you will know more than you ever wanted to.
Wow, TIA, I don’t say this often, but you are a dumb, immature, shit. Grow the hell up and think about someone besides your stupid self for a change.
Literally laughed out loud at the line about Levi Johnston’s “ignominy.”
If ever I wanted to see a case of the fictional “scared-into-gaydom-by-a-bad-straight-experience” come true, it would be that hot self-proclaimed redneck hottage Levi!
damn it, where’s the CT love? Huh? You should buy OUR Products too. Like… like…. Nuclear submarines and insurance!! Send them to all your friends.
Also sugar might encourage yeast infections. (food for the yeasties) but fisting causes bladder infections.
And just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s eeew yucky for everyone. That one letter saying it’s offensive just makes me want to giggle, because I’ll get that person would solemnly defend a person’s right to do anything wildly kinky and feel terribly un-PC if she said that flagellation or anal play is eeew yucky.
Dan,
Food can be very erotic especially liqours.. maybe you just said that to get a rise out of people… it certainly doesn’t make sense.
delightly – “Just because “some random creeps could jack off” to an image DOES NOT make Alpert guilty of distributing child pornography.”
Actually, delightly, that’s exactly what it means. They didn’t charge him with possession of child pornography, they charged him with distribution (i.e. sending it to other people). A crime in most states. If you want to get mad at a various sexting circumstance, get mad at the subjects of the nudie pics getting charged with child pornography, or get mad at the teenage possessors of nudie pics (w/o distributing) getting charged with possession. That’s the argument you want to make. An adult distributing naked pictures of his underage girlfriend is, in every way, distribution of child pornography and he, in every way, deserves the consequences.
Dan, you need to watch Tampopo
Am I the only person who thinks it’s ironic that Dan (and others) have no problems stuffing toothbrushes up their dicks, but food and sex together, *that* would bother them?
Huh.
@darcy: A “sound” is something you put in a bodily orifice to get a feel of the inside – or, as in this case, to have the inside get a feel of the sound.
@DJFG: Now, maple syrup in place of chocolate body pain? Maple syrup is way too messy, way too sticky and it’s very expensive. Then, why only Vermont? Québec and Ontario allow gay mariage, as far as I know.
@Luke Baggins: You ruined my life.
@everyone: Do not click the first link if you google “sounding site:thestranger.com”
Using food on or in your penis/vagina can cause all sorts of unpleasant infections, most notably yeast infections.
I have a question: If the underage girl took the pictures and sent them to the boyfriend, isn’t she guilty of distributing child porn as well?
I don’t know who’s the stupidest in this thread: the people who keep asking what ‘sounding’ means or the ones who think Dan is personally into sounding & is making some kind of moral condemnation of food ‘n’ sex rather than just exaggerating a personal preference for, um, humorous effect. Try sounding your ears; it might clear your head. Where’s my eye-rolling emoticon?
He’s right. Food’s too important to waste on your partner. And god, what a mess.
I don’t think Dan was saying that food+sex is “wrong”…I think he just finds it dull and kinda stupid–something done by boring straight couples who’re trying to ‘spice up their marriage’.
I personally don’t like the whole food+sex thing; it seems just a bit ridiculous. But I also don’t give a rat’s ass what other people do in their sex lives, as long as it doesn’t involve children, animals, corpses, or any other beings who haven’t given consent. If you wanna coat your S.O. in peanut butter and chocolate syrup, go for it. Me, I’m more into non-edible additions in my sex life.
Dan, sorry I took a while to post it, but just out of interest, how did you get your column to go forward in time? It went up on the 14th (as the comments attest) but is dated the 16th.
@Gold Cube: Yes, thank you. Sometimes, it’s OK not to take Dan really, really seriously.
Gold cube: you must’ve mistaken the comments here for actual oneway comments: the rest of us use it for a technogeek substitute for dialogue: get on board.
food is the perfect sex toy for timid PWT: easy, cheap, not embarrassing to buy, and a little like undereducated foreplay for those who once thought sex consisted of ‘put peg A into slot B’: Chocolate on the nipples or near the clit gets, say, that Mormom or Fundie tongue straying to places its never been – so give food some respect for Teaching role it plays!
Besides, where would Babeland fellatio and condom classes be, without the almighty Banana?!
You know, the more I read TIA’s letter, the more creeped-out I feel. The fuck? He’s just making up arbitrary rules to justify his asshole, shitty actions?
“[T]he minute she entered my space I had this feeling that all bets are off.”
I think this is what a rapist’s mind sounds like.
TIA:
Awesome visual for voyuerists.. Where do you live? Why not ask someone to come over and take a look at that ‘ceiling’ problem?
Guaranteed you’d get dozens of volunteers to do the dirty work for you & then share what they reap – releasing you from the direct guilt but not the pleasure. 😉
evil overlord brainstorm: Does she read leases or just sign? Have her sign a new lease with some extra fine print? Then put in the new ‘security system’ mentioned in item J12- aka the camera in her new ceiling fixture.
@Gold Cube: Amen to that! And then to top it off we got another “did you write your column in the future?” dumbass!
Whats a “rainbow party”?
Buy Magic Hat beer – brewed in Burlington VT and oh so delicious.
1) Yeah, I was wondering what “sound” was too. I couldn’t even come up with typo that made sense in context (even though “dildo” has the same number of letters).
2) No food with sex? WTF? Although I agree it’s too messy for me as the person who has to wash the sheets and bed pad, I wouldn’t condemn it for anybody else.
3)For those who want to reward “things Vermont”? Well, Vermont Country Store – that dowdy old retailer has introduced some sex devices into its catalog. A lot of prudes are upset and boycotting the company. So, if you are in the market for any home product or sex toy, check ’em out. You’d be sending cash to Vermont and also helping out a store that’s trying to move into the 21st Century.
TIA: The reasonable expectation once she enters your room is that she won’t have her privacy violated.
@ Darcy
A metal rod you stick up your urethra.
GRRR
I hate hearing sounding!!!
Every time you sneak a sounding reference in, I’m going to leave a big fat erotic food comment!!!
sticky maple syrup all over your cock, dan! so sticky, it pulls the little fuzzies off the inside of your underwear and mats your pubes!!
I HATE SOUNDING!!
A sound is a metal rod inserted into the urethra of a man’s penis in order to stimulate the prostate.
darcy: ‘What’s a “sound”?’
Sounding is the practice of inserting objects into ones urethra. The sound is the object inserted.
TIA, no no no no no no!!! reading that made my hot girl skin crawl.
HMMMM: Yes, a 14 year old girl was arrested recently for child porn for sending her BF some pix. I believe his mom saw them and had her busted. Sorry I can’t remember when, but I think I saw it on Drudge within the last couple of weeks.
granny
By the way Marq Young, i think a rainbow party is a blow job party.
For Darcy:
You asked for it!
A sound is any object inserted up a man’s urethra (the hole in his penis), often for sexual pleasure. It’s mostly in medical fetish scenes.
Okay I changed my mind: the stupidest are the 5 people in a row who answered @Darcy’s question about sounding – as if 300 people hadn’t already done it.
Blah blah blah… sexting blah blah, I’m going off on a major tangent so I can prove that I do research at The Stranger, too.. blah blah blah, gay marriage gay marriage gay marriage, all I can talk about, all I care about, and I think I can actually change the nation by my little column in this (complimentary) Seattle paper. –Dan Savage
Dan: “Okay, TIA, on to your question: While it’s normal to contemplate, even obsess about, something you know is wrong, secretly videotaping your roommate, even if she’s “in your space,” isn’t just an asshole move. It’s an illegal move in most places,”
I’d say it’s normal for guys to contemplate (although not actually following through with) videotaping a woman. But not normal for women to contemplate that with men.
As for food and sex, it’s not something I’ve done a lot, but it can be great. I love sucking on a woman’s nipples and I love whipped cream, so licking and sucking it off a woman’s nipples is a nice combo.
A year ago, I was lucky enough to be with one of those extremely rare women who loves anal sex. She also liked having her ass licked and I loved doing it (after she got it squeaky clean.) One night she suggested melting some chocolate and putting it on her ass and having me lick it off. So it did it and it was pretty damn hot. Too bad women like that are so hard to find.
“So to reward the Vermont legislature’s recent decision to override the governor’s veto and legalize same-sex marriage in that state, why not encourage your listeners and readers to purchase products made in Vermont?”
And/or visit Vermont. I’m sure they’d like more tourist dollars. If you’ve never been to New England in autumn, go! The intensity of the colors (in good years) is breathtaking. I remember driving on a dirt road into impossibly-picturesque Grafton, Vermont on one trip. It was like driving through a tunnel of fire. Unbelievably beautiful.
Plus, from scenic.org, “In 1968, Vermont prohibited new billboards and provided an amortization period of five years to remove existing billboards. By 1974, Vermont felled its last billboard.” Gotta love a state that bans billboards but permits same-sex marriage instead of vice-versa.
Okay—-fair enough.
I don’t mix food with my sex, either, but oohhhhhhh, Dan—-chocolate is indeed, the food of the Gods and Goddesses!!
As for all the “sexting” going on among kids and then overzealous prosecutors going after them- well, aren’t the prosecutors themselves guilty since (I’m assuming) they actually LOOKED at it themselves? It’s ILLEGAL to even view the stuff, isn’t it?
Sickos should be ashamed of themselves looking for all this teenage/ underage porn.
@Ummm, yes it does: I totally agree with you on the porn distribution charges. Sending out nude pics of underage teens is illegal for a reason, and making an exception to that law would probably just lead to it being easier for the people who actually make and distribute child porn to get away with it, i.e. a new loophole in the justice system.
A lot of teens are easily influenced and manipulated by those older and more experienced. I can’t BELIEVE what I used to let guys get away with when I was a teenager, just because I felt like I would be being a bitch if I stuck up for myself. I’m not a whole lot older, only 22, but if a strange guy touches me inappropriately or a date tries to twist my arm into doing something I don’t want, I’m a whole lot better at taking care of myself now.
Yes teens are sexual, no 18 isn’t some magical age were everyone suddenly “grows up” and is responsible, but there is a level of emotional maturity that only comes with age and experience. The child pornography laws are supposed to protect not only kids, but underage teens too, who might not be mature enough to make smart decisions about how doing a porn/taking nude pics will affect their future, or who might be easily coerced by someone a little older into making a porn even though they don’t want to.
Although I agree that labeling him as a sex offender is maybe a little harsh, the bottom line is she’s UNDERAGE, and making an exception for this case might blur the line for other cases where a 16y/o girl is strong armed into taking nude pics/making porn she doesn’t want to, and has no protection from the law.
If she was an adult, the guy would be a douche for sending her pic around, but thats a consequence of taking nude pics that she deals with. There’s no guarantee that a kid is consenting, and who’s to say the age where you draw the line where its acceptable for kids to do this? Although I do think teens should have the freedom to have sex, exchange nude pics with a bf, etc. and they will do this, its still something that needs to be treated carefully. The line is 18 and older.
The guy should have kept the pic to himself, or deleted it. It not the same as if she’s an “adult”
“sounding” is a form of urethral play where usually long, thin objects are inserted into the urethra
rainbow parties might just be an urban myth, but they center around a bunch of girls or boys putting on different colours of lipstick and performing oral sex on other boys, leaving “rainbow”-coloured smears behind
what darcy said.
wow, I just threw up a little in my mouth.
Some people are sending flowers to Iowa as thanks
Oh, Dan’s just expressing his opinion about food/sex, that’s all. It’s kinda like when Carolyn Hax said “Really, once you reach age 18, why would you expect anyone to care about remembering your birthday?”
The “Sound” you hear is the echo of the same question and answer repeating over and over…
(I think the problem is that all the messages don’t automatically display,
only the first few, so they maybe never see the others.)
@ “Whats a ‘rainbow party’?”
Its an urban myth/fantasy of paranoid
parental persons.
RE: Phillip Alpert – while what he did was reprehensible, I’m not sure it qualifies him for “sex offender” status. Anymore than an under-age girl sending pics of herself to her boyfriend should be prosecuted for “distributing child porn” for godsakes. But then, two people making sweet, sweet, consensual love
can be charged with statutory rape of one another if under the age decreed by wildly divergent State Laws. And thats just peculiar.
Now, TIA, on the other hand…that
“sex offender” title might deservedly
be his. TIA, its all about consent -you would be “virtually” raping her, by camera. Can you understand that? If you must, do what generations of men have done in your situtation- use your imagination! Sometimes I think people have forgotten how to fantasize! And in your mind, she will be a willing partner, not just changing her underwear.
I’m with lazyb. I’ve lived with a GF before and will likely do it again but I, and most of the very independent women I like to date, need our own space. Get a larger place so you can each have your own room where you can go to decompress and have your privacy. Worked for me and I HATE having roommates.
As for food and sex. I vote yes. I love a nice game of Hide The Honey. 🙂
I LOVE the idea of supporting the economies of states that support equality! Let’s show people what they get for doing the right thing. FYI in addition to Maple Syrup (way better than that Mrs Butterworth crap) other Vermont exports are Cabot Cheese, the Vermont Teddy Bear Company, Fine Paints of Europe, Vermont Butter and Cheese Company, several micro breweries, ginseng growers, Burton Snowboards, Lake Champlain Chocolates, King Arthur Flour, and Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream. (according to Wikipedia)
@ “Wow, I never expected to feel judged by Dan Savage. I didn’t know anyone could be THAT kinky”
Yeah! Me either! I feel kind of proud actually. But I have to say that there is a vibe here (and not just from him) that this is a dumb “straight thing”…quoting one post:
“I first fell in love with Dan when he called sex+food: boring breeder faux kink, or something like that.”
Considering the knee-jerk (emphasis on “jerk”) reactions gays & lesbians face, you would think it would make them more tolerant of other people’s sexual interests. Food isn’t some huge turn-on for me (its been years since it entered my bedroom) but my ex was pretty into it. I would never have tried to pass it off as a “kink”, it was just a prop…I mean some people want candles for mood lighting, some for dripping wax on sensitive areas. To each his own.
And really, who defines “kinky”? Is playing with feathers kinky? Because I once had some stuff called Honey Dust that was a lightly sweetened powder in a bag that you applied with a little feather duster – made the skin taste very nice, was never sticky, plus the feathers felt shivery good. I would recommend it to any of the people who posted saying they liked something sweet with their oral treat.
There are lots of things out there people do that would give me a “soft-on”, but if it turns them on, who am I to judge?
Dan! I usually agree with you, but you said two things that annoyed me:
1) Come on, are you really for protectionism? Canada makes a buttload of maple syrup and is also the leader of gay rights in North America. I’m happy for Vermonters (Vermontites?) but this is no time to exclude other countries from your breakfast condiment/sex aid purchases. Which leads me to
2) What? The poop/animals/children thing I get but food? I bet if someone bothered to do a study about it they’d find there are more food fetishists out there than S&M lovers. Didn’t your letter writer just point out your influence over the American public? And didn’t you not once but twice refer to America’s opressive repressiveness? Why would you say something to make food lovers ashamed?
Seriously, the hottest sex my partner and I have starts with Nutella body paint. And I’m proud of it.
Also, as a lesbian enjoying food during sex (NOT in bed and NOT on my poon) I’m finding the “boring straight kink” a little ridiculous.
Seriously, commenting queers, if you can’t think of ways to use food that don’t leave a sticky mess, cause yeast infections or mess up the sheets you clearly have boring queer sex.
Regarding IBIL, I know a happily married couple who live 4 hours away from each other in different states… it works for them
A sound is something you stick up your piss slit on your man junk! Why, I dont know.
I once had a male roommate who spent the entire (thankfully brief) time we lived together manipulating and scheming to get me in bed. Guys like TIA are why so many women won’t have male roommates.
I pose a question unrelated to column.
When is it allowed to be “too busy” for sex? Or is it always an excuse? Is it ever justified, or is it just a way to say “i don’t want to have sex with you”?
Please respond with all comments, thanks!
From Dictionary.com:
–noun
11. Surgery. a long, slender instrument for sounding or exploring body cavities or canals.
With all the repetitious comments on the definition of “sound”, no one has bothered to mention the health risks. I’m a nurse, so here goes: the bladder and urethra are sterile environments. Catheterizing a patient is a sterile procedure (sterile gloves, betadine prep, etc). Introducing non-sterile objects into the urethra will cause a UTI – urinary tract infection. VERY PAINFUL. Don’t do it.
Food shouldn’t be in/with sex. The thought on the top of my mind during sex… “Where should I cum?” The last thought on my mind… “Where should I put the pizza??”
Food not a sex toy? Where has whipped cream been all your life, Dan?
Re: Food
As the token straight old dude here, I have observed that most sexual activity can be positioned somewhere on a spectrum ranging from the romantic to the baroque. The romantic extreme is characterized by a maximum of sincerity with a minimum of hedonistic pleasure-seeking; the baroque end is the opposite.
On this spectrum, food anywhere other than in the mouth is super-baroque.
Darcy:
A sound is sex toy inserted into a man’s urethra. A toothbrush might not be my first choice. 🙂
http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/3516.…
Sweet Zombie Jesus. Stop asking about sounding, and stop answering. Idiots.
Also, TIA? You are an asshole and there is no way you can twist around and justify doing what you want to do to this girl and NOT be a major fucking asshole.
You don’t get to do this and still be a good guy. The end.
What you need to do, is use your fucking fantasies, and porn, and “contain your attraction” until the lease is up, and then find a roommate who isn’t hot and who doesn’t have a hot partner.
Because clearly, you can’t be trusted not to fuck over someone who’s asking for it by being all hot in your room and shit.
Also, asshole? You could have said no to letting her and her boyfriend take your room. Doing this “nice guy” doormat move still makes you King Asshole of Asshole Mountain if you go through with this.
TIA, you’re creepy dude
Hi IBIL you sound like a normal free spirited person to me. I, like you, love my own space. The only part of your letter that got me nervous was when you said you were afraid to bring it up for fear of losing him. In the process of “going along to get along” I am afraid you would give up other things you love in life just to please him or not displease him. It should not be all about him. You deserve to be happy too! 🙂
So Darcy, a “sound” is…just kidding, everybody! Maybe we can move on, especially since we all seem to agree TIA should NOT videotape the roomie.
Now, what may I ask a totally unrelated question, just b/c I really need advice and there seem to be a lot of informed readers responding this week?
Here are my questions (just ignore if not interested): Readers over 50, In your experience, is kinkiness “just a stage?” Also, how long do women maintain interest in sex after menopause?
Here’s why I ask–about 5 or 6 years ago my previously vanilla long time lover got into BDSM. I went along for the ride, at first just b/c I was trying to be ggg. We had some pretty hot times, and I found I enjoyed it. Things got intense, but as he was the top, we never went in any direction he didn’t want to go. Then about a year ago the sex stopped altogether. At first I thought he was being unfaithful, but then I noticed that he simply couldn’t get it up anymore–not even in his sleep. (At my insistence, he has had a full medical check up; docs say nothing is wrong.) Now I have learned that he has thrown away all our sex toys. He says his interest in BDSM was “just a stage.”
So has this happened to anyone else? Was the kink just a desperate grab at a floating scrap of wood as the sex ship went down?
We are in our late 40’s, married, with kids. I feel my choices are to dump him and find someone else willing to spank me or to stay faithful and wait for my own desires to ebb. (An open marriage won’t work, b/c we are both too busy with work and family obligations as it is and also because I know that I can’t see others casually–any relationship I enter is serious and caring.) Being informed about how many more years of sexual frustration I am likely to face might help me decide.
Dan–excellent advice for TIA.
Condolences to royal asshole Phillip Alpert’s unlucky girlfriend in Florida.
So—–there’s “sexting” now?
Yikes!
JUST when I thought the latest greatest little high-tech device was safe…
Okay, I’ve got the same question. I’m 49 and we have sex about twice a year. He will never change. But will I lose my crazy need-it-at-least-once-a-day desires?
TIA, what the fuck is wrong with you?!!! That letter better be a fake.
If it is not, then jesus christ, wake up!!! No one, hot or not, deserves to have their privacy violated like that! Comparing it to rape is right- but in a way (and I say this as a rape victim) it’s worse because there is permanent physical evidence, evidence that is used again and again for some pervert’s sexual gratification, and evidence that is out of your control and might be shared. It is a horrible, horrible thing to do to someone, and if you do it, not only are you creepy but you deserve to be in jail for a long time.
Here’s what you do. NEVER live with a girl whom you are not dating again. EVER. DON’T DO IT. Also, tell the girl that she can no longer stay in your room. And, maybe you should think about moving the hell out. Why? Because you are seriously considering committing a serious crime against, and deeply violating, your roommate. You are showing the mentality of a rapist (as soon as she crosses a line, all bets are off? She loses her rights? Riiiiiight). Time for a wake-up call.
TIA, you are slime. I agree with others — your illogical “all bets are off” when she’s in your space rationalizing makes you no better than a rapist. She’s hot — and also a human being with rights.
A sound is, I think, the object you use in sounding. Sounding is the practice of spreading the urethra wide enough to have objects inserted into it.
Funilingus: ‘”The “Sound” you hear is the echo of the same question and answer repeating over and over…’
Perfect!
__________________________________
thanks for helping: ‘Here are my questions (just ignore if not interested): Readers over 50, In your experience, is kinkiness “just a stage?” Also, how long do women maintain interest in sex after menopause?’
1. I’d guess in most cases, probably not, but it could be. Maybe he just grew tired of it; maybe it was — as you put it — “just a desperate grab at a floating scrap of wood as the sex ship went down” (nice metaphor, by the way); or maybe the sex ship is structurally sound, but just isn’t interested in sailing on your sea anymore (sorry.) While it’s not entirely out of the question for a guy in his late 40s to lose his libido entirely, it seems extremely odd to me.
2. There’s no one-size-fit-all answer. Menopause affects women in different ways. Most older women I’ve met seem to not be all that sexual. But that’s just my experience; the experience of other men may be different. And I’ve met a few older women who were very sexual. So, while your desires may eventually die down, that’s not a sure thing.
If you still love and like this guy a lot it’s not going to be that easy to just dump him. But, if sex is that important to you, and you’re not getting any from him, you’re going to become VERY frustrated. And one thing working in your favor is that it’s going to be much easier for you to find a man that will want to spank you, than it would be for a man your age to find a woman who would want to be spanked. (As Dan wrote years ago, “It’s a sad fact that men are more likely to be kinky than women. One unhappy consequence of this disparity is that most kinky men wind up with women who aren’t kinky. (Happy consequence: Kinky women can have their pick of the kinky men.”))
One thing I’m curious about. You said the “sex stopped altogether.” You mean just fucking, or everything? Even if he’s unable to get it up, I’d think he’d still want other kinds of sexual play and intimacy (stroking, sucking, etc.)
I’m also curious if you guys have gone to couples counseling?
Good luck!
Funilingus: “@ “Wow, I never expected to feel judged by Dan Savage. I didn’t know anyone could be THAT kinky”
Yeah! Me either! I feel kind of proud actually. But I have to say that there is a vibe here (and not just from him) that this is a dumb “straight thing”…quoting one post:
“I first fell in love with Dan when he called sex+food: boring breeder faux kink, or something like that.”
Considering the knee-jerk (emphasis on “jerk”) reactions gays & lesbians face, you would think it would make them more tolerant of other people’s sexual interests.
Actually, I’d bet that gays and lesbians are more tolerant of different sexual interests. In general. But that generality doesn’t exclude some gays and lesbians being quite, or very, judgmental and disapproving.
Also, just because a person is gay or lesbian doesn’t mean they’re going to accept every kink. For example, Dan has expressed his distaste for “scat play.” I’m a straight guy and feel the same way, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the percentage of gays and lesbians who find shit to be a HUGE sexual turn-off is just as high as the percentage of straights.
As for the (presumably) gay or lesbian who fell in love with Dan’s phrase “boring breeder faux kink,” about sex & food, I chalk that up to a retaliatory mentality. When gays and lesbians (especially, I think, gays) get put down by many straights for their sexual practices, it’s perfectly understandable that some might take glee at returning the put-downs.
My personal feeling is that while there’s a lot of stuff I’m not into, I’m also not going to put anyone — gays, lesbians or my fellow straights — down because of it. As long as there’s mutual consent. If someone — gay, lesbian or straight — is fucking around behind their partner’s back, that’s NOT mutual and I have no problem putting that down.
I was wondering the same thing. Urban dictionary and Google are giving me nothing.
Holy shit, guys. I just read the comments and the definition of a “sound” is ALL OVER THIS PAGE but people are still asking.
TIA: You’ve got to be kidding me. What a slimeball.
darcy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urethral_so…
TIA is, without a doubt, one mega-fucked up, slimeball piece of shit! I’m with Brianna, Me, and Ick.
If TIA is fucked up enough to go ahead and spy on his roommate, hot or not, Ick’s absolutely right: shitheads like him should be sent to prison to rot for a long, long time!
I survived the nightmare of an abusive marriage from hell. Nobody deserves to be violated.
@ too ashamed to say: at least we know neither of us is the only one with this problem!
@ JD thanks for the long and thoughtful post. (It’s nice to see a couple people read down that far.) To answer your questions: No, nothing at all–he’s not even interested in holding hands or kissing. He’s not getting it up even in his sleep (yes, I’ve checked!) He says about the change that it just doesn’t occur to him any more. Always a slender man, he is losing weight now. He sits with his head in his hands at the dinner table and doesn’t hear any family member unless we repeat ourselves a lot or even yell. He’s not hard of hearing, just absent. It’s as if he’s just crumpling into dust right before my eyes. Scary, but the doctor’s thorough check up turned up no health issues.
Part of me is fed up and says to go out and look for fun. (I’m not a total toad, and even at this age it shouldn’t be impossible.) The other part says it’s my job to stay by him through thick and thin. The first part gets me reading Dan’s column; the second caused me to insist on couple’s counseling. I can’t imagine it helping, but what the hell else can I do if I want to stay married? Our first appointment is next week.
But I’d still like to hear from post menopausal women re desire, if you are out there… Thanks!
Thanks for Helping, two things occur to me, cardiovascular health and erections are closely related; make sure the doc checks for heart health data as well.
My relationship had a stage where we played with bondage a bit; but at one point I felt my trust was violated and I completely lost interest in that type of play for a very long time. Not sure how that would play for a top; but perhaps it became too much work?
thanks for helping – have you considered that he may be depressed? The zoning out thing sounds familiar.
@ thanks for helping, he’s not eating, he’s not engaging with you or the family in normal ways? that sounds to me more like a mental health than a physical problem. Did your doctor look into depression? I think your (and his) problem may be more than just sex, kinky or not
TIA: in NY they call it “Unlawful Surveillance,” and it’s a felony, and further disseminating the images resulting from an unlawful surveillance can be a felony too.
So basically you would have to be a fucking idiot to carry through on this. And let’s hope you’re not.
Foodsex *can* be hot, but: anything sugar-based will be sticky, not lubricative. Anything remotely acidic (tomato sauce, bucket-o’-apple pie filling, et al) will become at least irritating to bathe in, if not outright painful. Cream sauces are only appetizing in a certain temperature range – i.e., too scalding to roll around in – and become nauseating if left to cool.
If you’re really into foodplay, consult the gunge crowd. I think they know the right oatmeal + corn starch ratios to keep things comfy, slick, and safe.
@thanks for helping
I’m not post menopausal yet. And at almost 55, my sexual desire has quieted. Still want lots of touch and intimacy. Still enjoy lovemaking. And I’m not as hungry. A simmer rather than rolling boil.
Several friends,around my age, who are not in relationships, have told me they’re more interested in intimacy or a good dance, than sex these days.
well that was some well sound advice…
but wtf do you mean when u say “use your toothbrush as a sound”??? should I just assume its the grossest thing I can think of…. “she made me sound her in the ass all night”….
oh… should have known….haha
I can’t believe it.
Dan makes a comment about food and sex and no Dolcett fan makes a protest.
I know there are Dan Savage fans because many Dolcett girls said they started by being GGG first.
This is an observation, not a complaint, so Dan, your record is still pure.
TIA, I think it is NOT illegal to secretly record anybody on your premises. No matter how loudly people here shout that you’re terrible to even consider such a thing, I’d like to see them point to the laws that prohibit it.
As far as I know, laws are not passed overnight. Certainly not when there’s room for doubt as to the fairness of them. Examine the secret recording question. Does a person have the right to use their own recording equipment? Yes. Is there any need to request permission from anyone to use said equipment in one’s own home? No. Is there anything that it is illegal to record, per se. No. Is it reasonable to assume that TIA is not homosexual. Yes (since only 10% of people are). It is reasonable to assume that TIA’s female roommate knows whether he is in a relationship or not? Yes. Is it reasonable to assume that she thinks she’s attractive? Yes. Then it follows that she cannot reasonably be expected not to know that TIA might be interested in her sexually, & that her living in close proximity to him *in a sexual relationship*, might arouse him. Is it reasonable to believe that she doesn’t know of the existence of video recording technology & it’s easy accessibility today? No. Is it reasonable to believe that she is unaware that TIA has such recording equipment, or can readily acquire it? No. Is it reasonable to believe that she has no knowledge of the types of behaviour that sexually frustrated males have been known to practice e.g. peeping or eavesdropping? No. Is there, or has there ever been, any form of legally binding agreement between this woman & TIA as to what they can expect from one another? No. Can it reasonably be argued that TIA has led her to believe that he is morally unquestionable? I doubt it since who *is* morally unquestionable i.e. does TIA have a halo above his head? Does he have a large ‘S’ emblazoned on his t-shirt? No.
What about TIA’s inalienable rights to freedom of artistic expression (the actions part of the right to free speech)? Furthermore, what harm would he have caused to this woman, even if she discovered that he had filmed her? Would she have been recorded doing anything shameful? No. Would she have been recorded doing anything illegal? No. Has she been physically harmed by his actions? No. Can she reasonably argue that she’s been emotionally harmed to any permanent or *lasting* extent? Has this woman got a track record for shyness? No. Has she ever done any modelling work, sun-bathed topless anywhere? Any such examples of this would weaken any possible case that she was very much emotionally violated.
Finally, there was a case in the USA of a man secretly recording a family of females *in their OWN home* via open windows. By the time he was caught, he’d amassed a collection of numerous tapes with hours of recordings of the mother & her two or three daughters, variously in the bathroom & bedrooms. It turned out that when it came to attempting to prosecute, it was found that there were no applicable laws being broken. In fact, there have been numerous cases such as this. One was a hotelier who fixed a secret camera in the bathroom in one of the rooms & recorded female guests. He was released on a caution & a minor fine.
However, I am NOT advocating you should go ahead & record her, TIA. I’m merely responding to correct those who insist it would be illegal, let alone *very* illegal. Incidentally, there’s actually no comparison between what you’re suggesting & the ‘child porn’ charges Dan cites; that is a pure smoke-screen designed to imply a similarity, broadly justified under the phrase ‘recording digital images can have serious consequences’.
The best course of action would be, I think, to ask this woman & her boyfriend to vacate the premises as soon as is possible. When they ask why, tell them that it’s simply no longer convenient for them to stay. The *completely* good approach would be to also refrain even from making your feelings known to her since it’s not honourable to seek to break up a relationship. However, it is said that ‘all’s fair in love & war’ so maybe you could tell her the real reason why you’ve asked her to leave. In fact, from *that* perspective, you could turf the boyfriend out alone.
Having read so many posts from people haranguing TIA for merely admitting to *thinking* of doing something they find offensive, I simply have to try to inject some sanity onto this board.
Firstly, suggesting that secretly recording someone is virtually the same as rape is an outrage of the highest order against rape victims; & yes, I realise that one woman who claims she was raped has said a similar thing but it’s still utter nonsense. Only an imbecile would suggest such a thing. I wonder how many times Funilingus has taken action in outrage at the ‘light’ sentencing that ‘evil’ ‘perverts’ are routinely given for *actual* offences such as flashing, sexual assault, soliciting for sex, etc. Most likely, never! Quick to rant about how TIA is practically a rapist who *already* deserves to spend time behind bars, I’d bet my last dime that she’s never done a thing to back these views up against real convicted criminals; and do you know why not? Because she knows that she’d get ridiculed for her efforts. The very idea that a man should be locked away for life (as a rapist gets) for masturbating while peeping into someone’s window, or for stealing some woman’s panties from a washing line, is too preposterous to laugh at. She, & the rest of the women here who target TIA with such vitriol are misandrists who should actually *thank* him for enabling them to vent some of their repressed hatred against men in a way that won’t get them arrested.
Recording someone secretly is ‘Unlawful surveillance’? This is a joke right – hardly equal to the serious sort of crime that makes so many here froth & foam with rage at TIA. I can see them now, marching into the courtroom, bursting with righteous indignation, ready to hurl the book at him, lock him up & throw away the key, only to discover that the best they’ve got against him is…’Unlawful surveillance’! RAFL! Irrational, knee-jerk, reactionaries!
And what ‘privacy’ laws exist anyway? So many have spoken about this woman’s privacy as if it’s graven on tablets of stone as the ‘holiest of holies’; but on what are they basing this notion? You can be sure that it’s women who are speaking so passionately about this – the same women who eagerly buy the gossip magazines which exist purely on the strength of photographs of celebrities sunbathing, or canoodling with their lover, etc. taken with telephoto lenses. Indeed, those photographers shove a camera into the faces of celebrities if they so much as sneeze – but where are the cries of outrage at the invasion of privacy then? These are the same women who think nothing of turning over a teenage son’s bedroom to find his stash of porn so they can confront him with it & call him a filthy exploiter of the poor victimised models. What of his privacy? How many mothers routinely go through their sons’ and daughters’ (& partners’) pockets ostensibly to make sure they’re empty before putting them in the wash? How many have read their child’s diary? How many of them have a peek into the cupboard when they visit the bathroom in a friend’s house?
The reason women cry out so loudly against those found guilty of invasions of privacy is because they’re anxious to avert the gaze of suspicion away from themselves. It’s a classic projection of their own guilt.
Oduin,
I said he deserved to go to jail, not that he necessarily would. If it’s not illegal, it’s only because the law hasn’t caught up to technology. That fact shouldn’t alter the course of his actions. If his choice is based on that fact alone, it shows how deeply selfish (and possibly sociopathic) he is.
It is a deeply violating, unethical thing to do to someone, and it IS, absolutely, from the same mentality of a rapist. A different degree, perhaps. However, it is a serious violation against another person, against that person’s will / consent, sexual in nature. It is aggressive, humiliating, violating, and shows absolute disregard for person he sexually desires. It’s sick. And yes, I’ve been raped, as you say I “claim” (a totally unnecessary way to condescend me). And no, it’s not the same as violently forcing yourself on someone. But a lot of people would say that rape isn’t the same as fucking an unconscious person (I mean… they don’t fight back? They might never even know! What harm is it really?). And I only speak for one, but if someone videotaped my naked body, and me getting fucked, and kept that videotape to jerk off to, it would make me feel horrifically violated. Again, especially knowing that this video, which I would find humiliating and vulnerable and sick, would be out of my control FOREVER. It could be shared. It could be accidentally lost or stolen. It’s gone and some stranger or many is jizzing to MY BODY, that was never shared, to an event that was deeply violating, humiliating and AGAINST MY CONSENT.
I don’t care if you disagree. Whatever the law is, this is wrong wrong wrong, and both TIA and you make me feel a little more disappointed with humanity than I already was.
Finally, roommate laws are different than single household laws. It very well could still be against the law. Could a roommate install a camera in the shared bathroom? I don’t know, I’m just asking. And, I wonder if all else feels, if she could still sue the shit out of the guy.
And I don’t hate men. I love men. I’m dating a wonderful one. I have a wonderful father and brother. I have awesome male friends that I hang out with all the time. That was a stupid and ignorant way to try and undermine my perspective.
TIA should organize a skinny dipping party instead of being creepy about it.
(ok its still a little creepy in this context, but at least its not unethical.)
Finally, I just read your comment again and it’s worth noting your arguments are awful!
You exaggerate the opposing view, so you can argue against the extremity of something that no one actually said. That’s a classic move by people who can’t face a real argument.
You also bring up things that have absolutely nothing to do with this situation, or any of the commenters, and base these things on sexist stereotypes all the while claiming misandry. Obnoxious, unfounded and comical (complaining about misandry while making sweeping generalizations about women and their motivations?).
Regardless, going through someone’s room is wrong, including your teenage son’s. In my relationship, I have never once spied on my partner, while he routinely goes through my phone and computer, etc (something I am unhappy about but we are working on). I also don’t like gossip magazines. I think they’re stupid and yes, I do think they violate a person’s privacy. That said, a picture of a celebrity on a public beach, is a completely different beast than videotaping your roommate having sex in their own home. None of your examples have anything to do with this situation. Looking in someone’s bathroom cupboard? Huh? What in the world does that have to do with anything? And no- I’ve never done that. Maybe you’re the one with privacy violation issues?
No, I don’t fit your stereotypes, and I’m not that unusual. Even if I did fit your stereotypes, it wouldn’t make TIA’s idea ok. I don’t buy your arguments. I respect people’s privacy. I hold men and women in equal regard.
To Darcy:
A sound is an object you insert into your urethra.
Puh-leazze, “a climate of repression and misinformation around human sexuality”? repression? Are people serious? We have dads telling us how they stick stuff up their butts and their kids hiding their cross-shaped dildoes, and people sharing the most revolting minutiae about their preferences and fetishes, and we dare to talk about “repression”? Gawd, for the good old days, when children didn’t have free access to the hardest-core of porno or their parents’ sex toys or sexual perversions!
thanks for helping: “JD thanks for the long and thoughtful post. To answer your questions: No, nothing at all–he’s not even interested in holding hands or kissing. . . . He says about the change that it just doesn’t occur to him any more. Always a slender man, he is losing weight now. He sits with his head in his hands at the dinner table and doesn’t hear any family member unless we repeat ourselves a lot or even yell. He’s not hard of hearing, just absent. It’s as if he’s just crumpling into dust right before my eyes. Scary, but the doctor’s thorough check up turned up no health issues.“
You’re welcome. With that additional information, I agree with what a couple other people said: it sounds like depression.
“Part of me is fed up and says to go out and look for fun. (I’m not a total toad, and even at this age it shouldn’t be impossible.) The other part says it’s my job to stay by him through thick and thin. The first part gets me reading Dan’s column; the second caused me to insist on couple’s counseling. I can’t imagine it helping, but what the hell else can I do if I want to stay married? Our first appointment is next week.“
Unless a woman is hideous, it’s never impossible for her to get laid. In fact, it’s very easy for most women. I don’t know why you’ve waited so long to go to couple’s counseling; you said he lost complete interest in sex a year ago. Maybe it won’t help but you won’t know that until you give it a shot. Again, good luck.
____________________________________
yellow birch: “I’m not post menopausal yet. And at almost 55, my sexual desire has quieted. . . Several friends,around my age, who are not in relationships, have told me they’re more interested in intimacy or a good dance, than sex these days.“
Not surprising to me. I’ve met plenty of women like that on dates. Very little interest in sex and, therefore, not sexy. When you’re a guy in his 50s, it’s hard enough finding a woman who you’re compatible with. And then you have to deal with the lack of interest in sex besides. It sucks. I don’t want to chase after younger women but I understand why a lot of guys do.
_________________________________
Regarding TIA… to actually videotape, or even spy on, his female roommate would, of course, be a huge invasion of privacy. Yet I maintain this is one of those fundamental general differences between men and women. Even if most men wouldn’t actually go through with it, I think that men are much more likely to think or fantasize about spying on hot naked bodies than women are.
To Oduin,
I’d like to start of by saying I am a male. I read your response about TIA, and the women who responded to his letter. You seem to have some issues with women. Your response brought up topics and arguments that had nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor anything anyone had said.
It may not be illegal, but it is still very wrong.
This guy is trying to justify spying on his roommate. His thinking does sound like it could lead to raping if someone doesn’t tell him otherwise. From the letter, he feels entitled because she is in his room. If he starts that, who knows what else he could start to feel entitled too.
I do agree that it is a bit extreme to compare to rape. But both could be tramatic. And who knows what could happen, he could decide to use it as blackmail or something. He thinking is just wrong.
It’s just a complete breach of trust. One thing that is important to have, especially for people living together, is trust.
You make a lot of assumptions in your response. You think that she is supposed to know he likes her (we don’t know how hot she is, and most people, unless completely egotistical, don’t just assume everyone they come in contact with wants to do them). Also, I’m sure if she had any fear of him recording her, she wouldn’t have bothered staying in his room in the first place. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point.
It all comes down to trust. She trusts him (and is probably walking over him in the process) to let her and her boyfriend stay in his room. She trusts him to not do anything to break that trust.
And being a celebrity is hardly comparable to this. You, I, and anyone else reading know that people care about celebrities. Being in the public eye constantly is something a person signs up for when they are famous. That being said, there are celebrities that seem to disappear after they make there public appearances, only appearing as they please. Some know how to do it better than others.
Being hot, or being someone’s roommate, or both, doesn’t void one’s privacy.
I do realize that you are not condoning what he wants to do, and you did give good advice. But from the sound of your response, you have some issues with females in general…
food+sex= yeast infection
Thanks for the Magic Hat hit! I was on board with Ben & Jerry’s on occasion, but now VT will REALLY get some of my money. 🙂
@ Oduin: you said you were trying to “inject some sanity” before going off on an unhinged rant against women in general. That made me LOL.
And to clear up this silly debate:
Signed into law on 23 June 2003, “Stephanie’s Law” prohibits “unlawful surveillance,” which is defined as (1) the installation of “an imagining device” with no legitimate purpose other than surreptiously viewing or recording another person in a bedroom, bathroom, changing room, or other specified room; (2) for the purposes of sexual arousal or gratification, the use or installation of an imagining device that surreptiously views a person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy; (3) the use or installation of an imagining device to surreptiously view under the clothing of a person (commonly known as “upskirting”); or (4) for amusement, entertainment or profit, or to abuse or degrade the victim, the use or installation of an imaging device to surreptiously record another person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. A person who is found guilty of these crimes, which are rated as class D felonies, can be sentenced to a jail term of between 2 and 7 years, and, if so sentenced, must register with the State’s Sex Offender Registry after release.
So TIA, if you’re reading this, please don’t listen to Oduin’s half-baked personal opinions. What you’re contemplating *is* illegal and *can* get you registered as a sex offender. Keep it in hot fantasy land, find some voyeur porn with girls who look like your roommate, and/or wait until the lease is almost up and confess your desires to her. Who knows, she might have an exhibitionist streak herself!
@ Oduin: you said you were trying to “inject some sanity” before going off on an unhinged rant against women in general. That made me LOL.
And to clear up this silly debate:
Signed into law on 23 June 2003, “Stephanie’s Law” prohibits “unlawful surveillance,” which is defined as (1) the installation of “an imagining device” with no legitimate purpose other than surreptiously viewing or recording another person in a bedroom, bathroom, changing room, or other specified room; (2) for the purposes of sexual arousal or gratification, the use or installation of an imagining device that surreptiously views a person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy; (3) the use or installation of an imagining device to surreptiously view under the clothing of a person (commonly known as “upskirting”); or (4) for amusement, entertainment or profit, or to abuse or degrade the victim, the use or installation of an imaging device to surreptiously record another person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. A person who is found guilty of these crimes, which are rated as class D felonies, can be sentenced to a jail term of between 2 and 7 years, and, if so sentenced, must register with the State’s Sex Offender Registry after release.
So TIA, if you’re reading this, please don’t listen to Oduin’s half-baked personal opinions. What you’re contemplating *is* illegal and *can* get you registered as a sex offender. Keep it in hot fantasy land, find some voyeur porn with girls who look like your roommate, and/or wait until the lease is almost up and confess your desires to her. Who knows, she might have an exhibitionist streak herself!
I love how Oduin came in to “inject some sanity” and instead went off on an unhinged rant against women. That made me LOL.
For anyone interested, google “video voyeurism” and click on the third link. It has a state-by-state breakdown of illegal surveillance laws. You will notice that in most states it is listed as a felony and will almost certainly carry prison time and/or sex offender registry.
So TIA had better keep it in fantasy land, seek out voyeur porn with girls who resemble his roommate and/or wait until the lease is up and confess his attraction. Who knows, she may have an exhibitionist streak herself?
So, yes, Oduin went a little off the reservation a couple of times. However, his central points are strong. Ick, I’m sorry you were raped, but your suggestion that video peeping is worse than rape is just really really dumb. You’re saying that if you had to choose between a peeping tom filming you screwing through your bedroom window, or the same peeping tom climbing through the window, pinning you down, and forcing himself on you, you’d choose the latter? It’s just asinine, and astoundingly offensive to actual rape victims, regardless of whether you are one or not.
Peeping and rape are not equivalent. If you say they are, be prepared to be called an imbecile.
Side note: Dan makes a curious comment that even if the peeper intends to keep these videos to himself, what if his laptop is stolen or if his computer repairman posts them on the internet? I find that curious, because don’t those dangers apply equally to all dirty videos/pictures? Is Dan suggesting that nobody take consensual x-rated shots either?
At any rate, I agree with Dan, and with Oduin, that this secret videotape plan is a bad one. I don’t agree that he should be sent to the electric chair for contemplating it.
@ spinal:
Probably meant “imaging” rather than “imagining.” Not sure what an imagining device is, or how it would apply!
Otherwise, I quite agree and appreciate your response to Oduin’s rant.
“When is it allowed to be “too busy” for sex? Or is it always an excuse?”
Rule of thumb: whenever someone says they are “too busy for…” or “not enough money for…” just insert “…with you” at the end of the phrase, and the meaning will become instantly clear.
Zips, I didn’t say that, so your condescending rant was uncalled for.
I said they are different degrees of the same mentality, and in one WAY it could feel (not that it IS) worse. I explained why I said this. Due to permanent evidence- the violation itself- being out of your control, the unease of the violation is never fully relieved. It is continuous. For me, that is a serious concern. I later said AGAIN that it is not the same thing as rape. And explained again that it is of the same nature, being a sexual violation. So no more putting words in my mouth, please.
I speak for myself, not for every rape victim. However, I would bet that most rape victims would agree with me that a person who thinks it’s ok (all bets are off!) to secretly film private, sexual material- is violating in his roommate- that it is serious- that it shows disregard for the victim- that using another person’s body, without her consent, to satisfy his own sexual needs is of the same mentality as those who sexually assault. The law agrees. As it ends up, he would have to register as a sex offender and go to jail. Perhaps my having been a rape victim makes me recognize and/or take more offense at the mentality. However, by stating my opinion, I am hardly insulting rape victims or an imbecile.
Also, as for the photos you keep forgetting that little thing called consent. If a person consents to take explicit photos, they 1) were not violated (the videotape is NOT of their violation) and 2) agree to the risks of doing so. So, there is a difference, is there not? It’s also evidence of a crime, so it might not play out so well for TIA.
Thanks for helping: This quote from you really worries me. Please encourage him to seek a second opinion (or more), telling the doctor exactly this. Just because one doctor says nothing is wrong physically, does not mean it is true. I hope nothing is seriously wrong, but this does not sound normal. Take care.
“Always a slender man, he is losing weight now. He sits with his head in his hands at the dinner table and doesn’t hear any family member unless we repeat ourselves a lot or even yell. He’s not hard of hearing, just absent. It’s as if he’s just crumpling into dust right before my eyes.”
@ imaginings:
I actually copied and pasted it from a legal website, and didn’t notice it said “imagining device.” It’s an interesting phrase though…perhaps TIA should leave his hot roommate fantasies in his “imagining device” instead of involving an “imaging device”!
@ick: Congratulations. You have shown that, in the strictest technical sense, what you said is true. It was still a really dumb thing to say.
Peeping, even with the aid of a videocamera, is not even in the same zip code as rape. Saying that peeping is worse, even with the tortured explanation, is extremely offensive, and only serves to make light of rape. It’s like me saying that in a way, I’m smarter than Albert Einstein, because I know how to code HTML. Yes, technically it’s true, but that doesn’t change anybody’s response:
“Who cares? Shut the fuck up.”
To Ick, and anybody else who equates this with rape, STOP DILUTING THE CONCEPT OF RAPE. That word needs to mean something. Applying the term “rape” to everything that you find creepy is totally irresponsible. It’s like if your football team lost by six touchdowns and you described the game as a holocaust. It makes you a trifling asshole.
Just find some other word, and I’ll quit insulting you.
You go, Ick!
Zips. You are tiring. I didn’t find some loophole or tortured explanation, I simply restated what I originally said- something which is a direct, obvious repercussion of the act. Sorry if it hurt your brain. I’m not sure why you have chosen me as the person you want to misquote and pick on, but so be it. My comments did not make light of rape.
Here’s what bugs rape victims- “wow, that test totally raped me in the ass!” Not, “setting up hidden cameras in your roommate’s private bedroom (offered to her), with the intention of making a permanent porno collection out of her private life and illegally obtained close-ups of her and her bf’s every body part and sexual act- all without consent- is of the same mentality as rape.” The first makes light of rape. The other is a comment in a legitimate discussion about sexual assault and the mentality of entitlement to other people’s bodies- and the sense of violation one feels when someone has acted on this sense of entitlement.
I do not feel bullied by you. I am entitled to my opinion, and some random guy stepping up to be the white knight for all the other poor, defenseless, voiceless rape victims (but not any other kind of sexual assault victim!) against individual, imbecilic me leaves me very unimpressed. Another thing that bugs rape victims? Coming up with absurd analogies to silence their perspective. As well as, claiming to somehow represent their interests as a whole, while being a ridiculous asshole. Go figure.
HTML has nothing to do with intelligence. Perhaps if Hawking had suggested he was in the same league. Football is a sport. Perhaps if Rwanda survivors had suggested the same. Again, the law- and common sense- agrees that TIA’s hypothetical crime is sexual assault, and serious. It is not as far removed as you, for whatever reasons of your own, are desperate to believe.
There are many different, unique experiences of sexual assault, and as many emotional consequences. Victims often feel deeply betrayed, disillusioned, humiliated, vulnerable, naked, without choice, without control, dirty, their basic humanity valued far less than someone else’s sexual desire- and these are all valid emotional responses to what TIA proposes. Zips, you are clearly privileged. You do not know what it’s like to have someone assume entitlement to your body and violate your rights for his or her own sexual needs. Congrats. Now please- shaddup.
To be honest, I actually get nauseous when I think about sploshing. Also, I think if you are ignorant enough to start rubbing chocolate syrup on your vulva, well, you and your partner deserve that nasty yeast infection. However, just like any other pervertable or sex toy which can be used in icky and irritating ways, it also has its place in the bed- or bathroom of intelligent vanilla peps and kinksters everywhere. My problem is that Dan is a respected and heeded sex advice columnist who said: “Food is for after sex, people, not before, and never, ever during. Food is not a sex toy, not even chocolate.” He did not use the words “I,” or “it is my opinion that.” Dan stated that food is not a sex toy as if it were fact, and one which could bring hell and damnation upon any (even thoughtful) transgressor. It isn’t. It won’t. And I believe Dan was negligent in his wording.
Damn…given the cam opportunity…what a dilemma.
I’d probably still consider doing it, even though it’s illegal, even though it’s assholery.
Because that video, as TIA said, would BE his porn for life.
Miss Jaded: ‘My problem is that Dan is a respected and heeded sex advice columnist who . . . stated that food is not a sex toy as if it were fact, and one which could bring hell and damnation upon any (even thoughtful) transgressor. It isn’t. It won’t. And I believe Dan was negligent in his wording.
I would agree with you about the wording. Ideally people would not state subjective feelings as if they were objective. But people do that all the time (“that movie/concert/restaurant was horrible” instead of “I hated that movie/concert/restaurant”) and I’d sure like to think that the readers of Dan’s column are intelligent enough to understand that when he writes “Food is for after sex, people, not before, and never, ever during.” he is not stating a fact, but merely expressing his opinion in the manner people frequently do.
Since you appreciate precise wording, you might be interested in Googling “E-Prime” (short for “English-Prime”). Proposed by D. David Bourland, Jr. in a 1965 essay, E-Prime is a very interesting idea: a modified form of English which eliminates all forms of the verb to be: be, is, am, are, was, were, been and being (and their contractions). Writing in E-Prime communicates the writer’s subjective experience (or feeling) rather than the writer’s judgment. Therefore, it makes it harder for a reader to confuse a statement of opinion with a statement of fact.
Inviolable Rule of Nekkid Pictures #1:
Somebody other than the person the pictures are intended for WILL see them. Period. World without end, amen. If you’re not prepared for that inevitability, don’t take them/pose for them.
I love the way you don’t even address that if he had a modicum of respect for her as a human being he wouldn’t invade her privacy – you clearly divined right off that he has no respect for her as a human being (to him she’s a thing he wants to fuck and that’s all), so you knew that would be a wasted argument. Well done.
Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo lived in adjacent houses with a sky bridge between the second floors. This has always sounded like the perfect set-up, less the adultery.
About the Alpert, WTF are the parents doing! Seriously why is everybody so gun-ho to blame the the kids, media,laws or celebs. When the parents are doing Sh#t.
I’m glad at least one person mentioned “Tampopo.” Chocolate sauce and whipped cream as sex toys may be better suited to a John Waters film than the bedroom, but a live prawn? A live prawn!
Hurray for recognition that being together does not have to mean living together! I’ve been with my man 8 years, and we would still rather live in our own places – now, if only house prices were low enough that we could actually achieve that….
IBIL,
This automatically reminded me of Eric Idle and his book “The Greedy Bastard Tour” when he explains that his marriage is successful because he and his wife share separate bedrooms. The rooms are decorated completely to their own tastes and they wake up at different times and just do their own morning routines and it’s great for them.
Thought I’d share.
I have a friend who lives ‘with’ her boyfriend but they each have their own rooms on the property. She hates the idea of cohabitation and I respect her choice.
Your ‘friends’ are douchebags. They should be supportive of what makes you happy. Maybe they are just hating because they didn’t think of it first…
“Side note: Dan makes a curious comment that even if the peeper intends to keep these videos to himself, what if his laptop is stolen or if his computer repairman posts them on the internet? I find that curious, because don’t those dangers apply equally to all dirty videos/pictures? Is Dan suggesting that nobody take consensual x-rated shots either?”
When it’s consensual, the people being filmed get to decide for themselves whether THEY want to take that risk. When it’s forced, there is obviously no such choice.
Stolen or not, it’s an awful violation of privacy. Rape and peeping aren’t the same, but they require the same kind of mentality — that the offender is somehow entitled to use women’s bodies for his pleasure, and that the women’s opinions, desires, and RIGHTS are irrelevant. (Women are people, you know, and have a right to privacy just the same as men.)
The most ironic thing about some of these bs teen sex panics is that they often become a case of reality following fiction. Kids in my school would hear these news stories and think OTHER kids were doing them and start the practice themselves. The colored bracelets fad that was all over the news comes to mind.