My roommate is astoundingly hot. Her room is being repaired (the ceiling fell in), and, at her request, I’m letting her and her boyfriend sleep in my room while I take the couch. I’ve been able to contain my attraction just fine up to now, but the minute she entered my space I had this feeling that all bets are off. I’m considering spying on her with a hidden surveillance cam. If I had video of this girl naked, let alone being fucked, I could happily beat off to the footage for the rest of my life. Obviously it’s a breach of trust, and I’m a shitty roommate for considering it. I have a few concerns. Is this normal? Assuming that there’s no way she could find out and that I kept the video to myself and myself only, would it be so wrong? What is her reasonable expectation of privacy once she enters my room?
Thanks In Advance
Before we get to your tech-related queries, TIA, a word about a young man in Florida with tech-related troubles.
America’s current teen-sex panic—it’s always something—is about “sexting,” teenagers sending each other pictures of their sometimes-underage junk, their frequently underage racks, or their young and dimpled/pimpled rear ends. (Oh, if only we could return to the comparatively innocent and entirely fictional days of “rainbow parties”!) Shortly after the kids went crazy for sexting, the authorities went crazy for prosecuting kids for sexting. Take Phillip Alpert, an 18-year-old in Florida who got mad at his girlfriend and forwarded a digital photo of her naked to dozens of her friends and family.
This Alpert kid (he had only just turned 18) pulled an asshole move—the gaping asshole of moves—and he owes his girlfriend, her friends, and her family an apology, restitution, and a pound of flesh. (And I mean that pound.) A just, proportionate punishment might involve, say, nude pictures of Alpert being displayed on a billboard in Times Square. For a year. Instead, Alpert was convicted of distributing child porn and “sentenced to five years probation and required by Florida law to register as a sex offender,” CNN reports. “You will find me on the registered sex offender list next to people who have raped children, molested kids, things like that,” Alpert told CNN.
A message for concerned parents, outraged school officials, and teen-sex-obsessed prosecutors: We’re gonna have to either make it illegal for teenagers to own camsphonescomputers, or we’re gonna have to give them drugs to delay the onset of puberty until after they’re 18. If we’re unable or unwilling to do those things—technology is hard to contain, and delaying puberty could have unwelcome health consequences (although it would have spared Levi Johnston’s DNA from the ignominy of mixing with the Palins’)—then the intersection of horny teens and newer technologies is going to require us to rethink the simplistic application of laws that criminalize the possession and distribution of sexty (ugh) pictures, particularly in cases where they were created by teenagers, for teenagers.
Yes, Alpert was a douchebag; yes, it was wrong for him to forward that picture to embarrass and humiliate his girlfriend. But if Alpert is a child pornographer and a sex offender, so are millions of today’s teenagers. They’re all e-mailing each other pictures of their junk. Making an example of one unlucky asshole who got caught isn’t going to stop teenagers from sexting each other anymore than making an example of hundreds of thousands of unlucky pot smokers stopped people from smoking pot.
Okay, TIA, on to your question: While it’s normal to contemplate, even obsess about, something you know is wrong, secretly videotaping your roommate, even if she’s “in your space,” isn’t just an asshole move. It’s an illegal move in most places, and the consequences for asshole moves involving digital images, as illustrated above, can be dire. And until submitting to
videotaping is widely understood to be a known risk of sleeping in someone else’s bedroom, your roommate and her boyfriend have an entirely reasonable expectation of privacy.
As for no-way-she-could-ever-find-out, I could sneak into your house and use your toothbrush as a sound, and you’d never find out. And although it would hurt me more than it would hurt you, TIA, it would still be wrong—even if there was no way short of DNA testing that you would ever find out. And while you may intend to keep the video to yourself—such the gentleman—what if your laptop gets stolen? What if you take your computer in for repairs and someone makes a copy? Digital images—photos, video, whatever—are too easy to lose control over.
Don’t do it, TIA.
I am a 30-year-old female with a live-in boyfriend. While we’re not without our problems, the relationship is wonderful. My only big issue is that I don’t enjoy cohabitation. Before living with my boyfriend, I lived in a studio apartment, my little castle, and I relished having my own space. I would love to go back to us each having our own domicile, but I am afraid of losing him. The thought has been met with such criticism by my friends that it makes me wonder. Is it unusual to want your own space?
Independent But In Love
I know a nice, loving couple—married, straight, with kids—who each have an apartment in the same building. The kids’ rooms are in mom’s; the meals are prepared and eaten at dad’s. They decided to live like this because, like you, they both liked having their own spaces.
You can do it, too, IBIL. Stop worrying about what other people think and start being honest with your boyfriend about your preferred living arrangement.
As you’ve proven in the past with “santorum” and “saddlebacking,” you have considerable influence. So to reward the Vermont legislature’s recent decision to override the governor’s veto and legalize same-sex marriage in that state, why not encourage your listeners and readers to purchase products made in Vermont? And Iowa? Think of it: Your millions of fans could trade in chocolate body paint for maple syrup as the sexy edible substance of choice, all the while supporting this legislative victory and (we hope) spurring others like it.
D.J.’s Fellow Gayby
P.S. I have absolutely no stake in Vermont’s economy. I just want my dads to be able to marry
one day in the state where my family lives.
That day may come more quickly than we think, DJFG, thanks to the bravery of elected officials in Iowa and Vermont. As for rewarding those states: Like most Americans, I consume way more corn syrup than a person should (that shit’s in everything), so Iowa is covered. And I will make sure the next bottle of maple syrup I purchase is from Vermont—but I’ll be pouring it on my pancakes, thanks, not my boyfriend. Food is for after sex, people, not before, and never, ever during. Food is not a sex toy, not even chocolate.
ATTENTION JOURNALISTS: The deadline for this year’s Sexies—the Sex-Positive Journalism Awards—is approaching. The Sexies recognize writers “who stick to high journalistic standards” while reporting about sex “in a climate of repression and misinformation around human sexuality.” More info at
www.sexies.org.
TIA, you’re creepy dude
Hi IBIL you sound like a normal free spirited person to me. I, like you, love my own space. The only part of your letter that got me nervous was when you said you were afraid to bring it up for fear of losing him. In the process of “going along to get along” I am afraid you would give up other things you love in life just to please him or not displease him. It should not be all about him. You deserve to be happy too! 🙂
So Darcy, a “sound” is…just kidding, everybody! Maybe we can move on, especially since we all seem to agree TIA should NOT videotape the roomie.
Now, what may I ask a totally unrelated question, just b/c I really need advice and there seem to be a lot of informed readers responding this week?
Here are my questions (just ignore if not interested): Readers over 50, In your experience, is kinkiness “just a stage?” Also, how long do women maintain interest in sex after menopause?
Here’s why I ask–about 5 or 6 years ago my previously vanilla long time lover got into BDSM. I went along for the ride, at first just b/c I was trying to be ggg. We had some pretty hot times, and I found I enjoyed it. Things got intense, but as he was the top, we never went in any direction he didn’t want to go. Then about a year ago the sex stopped altogether. At first I thought he was being unfaithful, but then I noticed that he simply couldn’t get it up anymore–not even in his sleep. (At my insistence, he has had a full medical check up; docs say nothing is wrong.) Now I have learned that he has thrown away all our sex toys. He says his interest in BDSM was “just a stage.”
So has this happened to anyone else? Was the kink just a desperate grab at a floating scrap of wood as the sex ship went down?
We are in our late 40’s, married, with kids. I feel my choices are to dump him and find someone else willing to spank me or to stay faithful and wait for my own desires to ebb. (An open marriage won’t work, b/c we are both too busy with work and family obligations as it is and also because I know that I can’t see others casually–any relationship I enter is serious and caring.) Being informed about how many more years of sexual frustration I am likely to face might help me decide.
Dan–excellent advice for TIA.
Condolences to royal asshole Phillip Alpert’s unlucky girlfriend in Florida.
So—–there’s “sexting” now?
Yikes!
JUST when I thought the latest greatest little high-tech device was safe…
Okay, I’ve got the same question. I’m 49 and we have sex about twice a year. He will never change. But will I lose my crazy need-it-at-least-once-a-day desires?
TIA, what the fuck is wrong with you?!!! That letter better be a fake.
If it is not, then jesus christ, wake up!!! No one, hot or not, deserves to have their privacy violated like that! Comparing it to rape is right- but in a way (and I say this as a rape victim) it’s worse because there is permanent physical evidence, evidence that is used again and again for some pervert’s sexual gratification, and evidence that is out of your control and might be shared. It is a horrible, horrible thing to do to someone, and if you do it, not only are you creepy but you deserve to be in jail for a long time.
Here’s what you do. NEVER live with a girl whom you are not dating again. EVER. DON’T DO IT. Also, tell the girl that she can no longer stay in your room. And, maybe you should think about moving the hell out. Why? Because you are seriously considering committing a serious crime against, and deeply violating, your roommate. You are showing the mentality of a rapist (as soon as she crosses a line, all bets are off? She loses her rights? Riiiiiight). Time for a wake-up call.
TIA, you are slime. I agree with others — your illogical “all bets are off” when she’s in your space rationalizing makes you no better than a rapist. She’s hot — and also a human being with rights.
A sound is, I think, the object you use in sounding. Sounding is the practice of spreading the urethra wide enough to have objects inserted into it.
Funilingus: ‘”The “Sound” you hear is the echo of the same question and answer repeating over and over…’
Perfect!
__________________________________
thanks for helping: ‘Here are my questions (just ignore if not interested): Readers over 50, In your experience, is kinkiness “just a stage?” Also, how long do women maintain interest in sex after menopause?’
1. I’d guess in most cases, probably not, but it could be. Maybe he just grew tired of it; maybe it was — as you put it — “just a desperate grab at a floating scrap of wood as the sex ship went down” (nice metaphor, by the way); or maybe the sex ship is structurally sound, but just isn’t interested in sailing on your sea anymore (sorry.) While it’s not entirely out of the question for a guy in his late 40s to lose his libido entirely, it seems extremely odd to me.
2. There’s no one-size-fit-all answer. Menopause affects women in different ways. Most older women I’ve met seem to not be all that sexual. But that’s just my experience; the experience of other men may be different. And I’ve met a few older women who were very sexual. So, while your desires may eventually die down, that’s not a sure thing.
If you still love and like this guy a lot it’s not going to be that easy to just dump him. But, if sex is that important to you, and you’re not getting any from him, you’re going to become VERY frustrated. And one thing working in your favor is that it’s going to be much easier for you to find a man that will want to spank you, than it would be for a man your age to find a woman who would want to be spanked. (As Dan wrote years ago, “It’s a sad fact that men are more likely to be kinky than women. One unhappy consequence of this disparity is that most kinky men wind up with women who aren’t kinky. (Happy consequence: Kinky women can have their pick of the kinky men.”))
One thing I’m curious about. You said the “sex stopped altogether.” You mean just fucking, or everything? Even if he’s unable to get it up, I’d think he’d still want other kinds of sexual play and intimacy (stroking, sucking, etc.)
I’m also curious if you guys have gone to couples counseling?
Good luck!
Funilingus: “@ “Wow, I never expected to feel judged by Dan Savage. I didn’t know anyone could be THAT kinky”
Yeah! Me either! I feel kind of proud actually. But I have to say that there is a vibe here (and not just from him) that this is a dumb “straight thing”…quoting one post:
“I first fell in love with Dan when he called sex+food: boring breeder faux kink, or something like that.”
Considering the knee-jerk (emphasis on “jerk”) reactions gays & lesbians face, you would think it would make them more tolerant of other people’s sexual interests.
Actually, I’d bet that gays and lesbians are more tolerant of different sexual interests. In general. But that generality doesn’t exclude some gays and lesbians being quite, or very, judgmental and disapproving.
Also, just because a person is gay or lesbian doesn’t mean they’re going to accept every kink. For example, Dan has expressed his distaste for “scat play.” I’m a straight guy and feel the same way, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the percentage of gays and lesbians who find shit to be a HUGE sexual turn-off is just as high as the percentage of straights.
As for the (presumably) gay or lesbian who fell in love with Dan’s phrase “boring breeder faux kink,” about sex & food, I chalk that up to a retaliatory mentality. When gays and lesbians (especially, I think, gays) get put down by many straights for their sexual practices, it’s perfectly understandable that some might take glee at returning the put-downs.
My personal feeling is that while there’s a lot of stuff I’m not into, I’m also not going to put anyone — gays, lesbians or my fellow straights — down because of it. As long as there’s mutual consent. If someone — gay, lesbian or straight — is fucking around behind their partner’s back, that’s NOT mutual and I have no problem putting that down.
I was wondering the same thing. Urban dictionary and Google are giving me nothing.
Holy shit, guys. I just read the comments and the definition of a “sound” is ALL OVER THIS PAGE but people are still asking.
TIA: You’ve got to be kidding me. What a slimeball.
darcy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urethral_so…
TIA is, without a doubt, one mega-fucked up, slimeball piece of shit! I’m with Brianna, Me, and Ick.
If TIA is fucked up enough to go ahead and spy on his roommate, hot or not, Ick’s absolutely right: shitheads like him should be sent to prison to rot for a long, long time!
I survived the nightmare of an abusive marriage from hell. Nobody deserves to be violated.
@ too ashamed to say: at least we know neither of us is the only one with this problem!
@ JD thanks for the long and thoughtful post. (It’s nice to see a couple people read down that far.) To answer your questions: No, nothing at all–he’s not even interested in holding hands or kissing. He’s not getting it up even in his sleep (yes, I’ve checked!) He says about the change that it just doesn’t occur to him any more. Always a slender man, he is losing weight now. He sits with his head in his hands at the dinner table and doesn’t hear any family member unless we repeat ourselves a lot or even yell. He’s not hard of hearing, just absent. It’s as if he’s just crumpling into dust right before my eyes. Scary, but the doctor’s thorough check up turned up no health issues.
Part of me is fed up and says to go out and look for fun. (I’m not a total toad, and even at this age it shouldn’t be impossible.) The other part says it’s my job to stay by him through thick and thin. The first part gets me reading Dan’s column; the second caused me to insist on couple’s counseling. I can’t imagine it helping, but what the hell else can I do if I want to stay married? Our first appointment is next week.
But I’d still like to hear from post menopausal women re desire, if you are out there… Thanks!
Thanks for Helping, two things occur to me, cardiovascular health and erections are closely related; make sure the doc checks for heart health data as well.
My relationship had a stage where we played with bondage a bit; but at one point I felt my trust was violated and I completely lost interest in that type of play for a very long time. Not sure how that would play for a top; but perhaps it became too much work?
thanks for helping – have you considered that he may be depressed? The zoning out thing sounds familiar.
@ thanks for helping, he’s not eating, he’s not engaging with you or the family in normal ways? that sounds to me more like a mental health than a physical problem. Did your doctor look into depression? I think your (and his) problem may be more than just sex, kinky or not
TIA: in NY they call it “Unlawful Surveillance,” and it’s a felony, and further disseminating the images resulting from an unlawful surveillance can be a felony too.
So basically you would have to be a fucking idiot to carry through on this. And let’s hope you’re not.
Foodsex *can* be hot, but: anything sugar-based will be sticky, not lubricative. Anything remotely acidic (tomato sauce, bucket-o’-apple pie filling, et al) will become at least irritating to bathe in, if not outright painful. Cream sauces are only appetizing in a certain temperature range – i.e., too scalding to roll around in – and become nauseating if left to cool.
If you’re really into foodplay, consult the gunge crowd. I think they know the right oatmeal + corn starch ratios to keep things comfy, slick, and safe.
@thanks for helping
I’m not post menopausal yet. And at almost 55, my sexual desire has quieted. Still want lots of touch and intimacy. Still enjoy lovemaking. And I’m not as hungry. A simmer rather than rolling boil.
Several friends,around my age, who are not in relationships, have told me they’re more interested in intimacy or a good dance, than sex these days.
well that was some well sound advice…
but wtf do you mean when u say “use your toothbrush as a sound”??? should I just assume its the grossest thing I can think of…. “she made me sound her in the ass all night”….
oh… should have known….haha
I can’t believe it.
Dan makes a comment about food and sex and no Dolcett fan makes a protest.
I know there are Dan Savage fans because many Dolcett girls said they started by being GGG first.
This is an observation, not a complaint, so Dan, your record is still pure.
TIA, I think it is NOT illegal to secretly record anybody on your premises. No matter how loudly people here shout that you’re terrible to even consider such a thing, I’d like to see them point to the laws that prohibit it.
As far as I know, laws are not passed overnight. Certainly not when there’s room for doubt as to the fairness of them. Examine the secret recording question. Does a person have the right to use their own recording equipment? Yes. Is there any need to request permission from anyone to use said equipment in one’s own home? No. Is there anything that it is illegal to record, per se. No. Is it reasonable to assume that TIA is not homosexual. Yes (since only 10% of people are). It is reasonable to assume that TIA’s female roommate knows whether he is in a relationship or not? Yes. Is it reasonable to assume that she thinks she’s attractive? Yes. Then it follows that she cannot reasonably be expected not to know that TIA might be interested in her sexually, & that her living in close proximity to him *in a sexual relationship*, might arouse him. Is it reasonable to believe that she doesn’t know of the existence of video recording technology & it’s easy accessibility today? No. Is it reasonable to believe that she is unaware that TIA has such recording equipment, or can readily acquire it? No. Is it reasonable to believe that she has no knowledge of the types of behaviour that sexually frustrated males have been known to practice e.g. peeping or eavesdropping? No. Is there, or has there ever been, any form of legally binding agreement between this woman & TIA as to what they can expect from one another? No. Can it reasonably be argued that TIA has led her to believe that he is morally unquestionable? I doubt it since who *is* morally unquestionable i.e. does TIA have a halo above his head? Does he have a large ‘S’ emblazoned on his t-shirt? No.
What about TIA’s inalienable rights to freedom of artistic expression (the actions part of the right to free speech)? Furthermore, what harm would he have caused to this woman, even if she discovered that he had filmed her? Would she have been recorded doing anything shameful? No. Would she have been recorded doing anything illegal? No. Has she been physically harmed by his actions? No. Can she reasonably argue that she’s been emotionally harmed to any permanent or *lasting* extent? Has this woman got a track record for shyness? No. Has she ever done any modelling work, sun-bathed topless anywhere? Any such examples of this would weaken any possible case that she was very much emotionally violated.
Finally, there was a case in the USA of a man secretly recording a family of females *in their OWN home* via open windows. By the time he was caught, he’d amassed a collection of numerous tapes with hours of recordings of the mother & her two or three daughters, variously in the bathroom & bedrooms. It turned out that when it came to attempting to prosecute, it was found that there were no applicable laws being broken. In fact, there have been numerous cases such as this. One was a hotelier who fixed a secret camera in the bathroom in one of the rooms & recorded female guests. He was released on a caution & a minor fine.
However, I am NOT advocating you should go ahead & record her, TIA. I’m merely responding to correct those who insist it would be illegal, let alone *very* illegal. Incidentally, there’s actually no comparison between what you’re suggesting & the ‘child porn’ charges Dan cites; that is a pure smoke-screen designed to imply a similarity, broadly justified under the phrase ‘recording digital images can have serious consequences’.
The best course of action would be, I think, to ask this woman & her boyfriend to vacate the premises as soon as is possible. When they ask why, tell them that it’s simply no longer convenient for them to stay. The *completely* good approach would be to also refrain even from making your feelings known to her since it’s not honourable to seek to break up a relationship. However, it is said that ‘all’s fair in love & war’ so maybe you could tell her the real reason why you’ve asked her to leave. In fact, from *that* perspective, you could turf the boyfriend out alone.
Having read so many posts from people haranguing TIA for merely admitting to *thinking* of doing something they find offensive, I simply have to try to inject some sanity onto this board.
Firstly, suggesting that secretly recording someone is virtually the same as rape is an outrage of the highest order against rape victims; & yes, I realise that one woman who claims she was raped has said a similar thing but it’s still utter nonsense. Only an imbecile would suggest such a thing. I wonder how many times Funilingus has taken action in outrage at the ‘light’ sentencing that ‘evil’ ‘perverts’ are routinely given for *actual* offences such as flashing, sexual assault, soliciting for sex, etc. Most likely, never! Quick to rant about how TIA is practically a rapist who *already* deserves to spend time behind bars, I’d bet my last dime that she’s never done a thing to back these views up against real convicted criminals; and do you know why not? Because she knows that she’d get ridiculed for her efforts. The very idea that a man should be locked away for life (as a rapist gets) for masturbating while peeping into someone’s window, or for stealing some woman’s panties from a washing line, is too preposterous to laugh at. She, & the rest of the women here who target TIA with such vitriol are misandrists who should actually *thank* him for enabling them to vent some of their repressed hatred against men in a way that won’t get them arrested.
Recording someone secretly is ‘Unlawful surveillance’? This is a joke right – hardly equal to the serious sort of crime that makes so many here froth & foam with rage at TIA. I can see them now, marching into the courtroom, bursting with righteous indignation, ready to hurl the book at him, lock him up & throw away the key, only to discover that the best they’ve got against him is…’Unlawful surveillance’! RAFL! Irrational, knee-jerk, reactionaries!
And what ‘privacy’ laws exist anyway? So many have spoken about this woman’s privacy as if it’s graven on tablets of stone as the ‘holiest of holies’; but on what are they basing this notion? You can be sure that it’s women who are speaking so passionately about this – the same women who eagerly buy the gossip magazines which exist purely on the strength of photographs of celebrities sunbathing, or canoodling with their lover, etc. taken with telephoto lenses. Indeed, those photographers shove a camera into the faces of celebrities if they so much as sneeze – but where are the cries of outrage at the invasion of privacy then? These are the same women who think nothing of turning over a teenage son’s bedroom to find his stash of porn so they can confront him with it & call him a filthy exploiter of the poor victimised models. What of his privacy? How many mothers routinely go through their sons’ and daughters’ (& partners’) pockets ostensibly to make sure they’re empty before putting them in the wash? How many have read their child’s diary? How many of them have a peek into the cupboard when they visit the bathroom in a friend’s house?
The reason women cry out so loudly against those found guilty of invasions of privacy is because they’re anxious to avert the gaze of suspicion away from themselves. It’s a classic projection of their own guilt.
Oduin,
I said he deserved to go to jail, not that he necessarily would. If it’s not illegal, it’s only because the law hasn’t caught up to technology. That fact shouldn’t alter the course of his actions. If his choice is based on that fact alone, it shows how deeply selfish (and possibly sociopathic) he is.
It is a deeply violating, unethical thing to do to someone, and it IS, absolutely, from the same mentality of a rapist. A different degree, perhaps. However, it is a serious violation against another person, against that person’s will / consent, sexual in nature. It is aggressive, humiliating, violating, and shows absolute disregard for person he sexually desires. It’s sick. And yes, I’ve been raped, as you say I “claim” (a totally unnecessary way to condescend me). And no, it’s not the same as violently forcing yourself on someone. But a lot of people would say that rape isn’t the same as fucking an unconscious person (I mean… they don’t fight back? They might never even know! What harm is it really?). And I only speak for one, but if someone videotaped my naked body, and me getting fucked, and kept that videotape to jerk off to, it would make me feel horrifically violated. Again, especially knowing that this video, which I would find humiliating and vulnerable and sick, would be out of my control FOREVER. It could be shared. It could be accidentally lost or stolen. It’s gone and some stranger or many is jizzing to MY BODY, that was never shared, to an event that was deeply violating, humiliating and AGAINST MY CONSENT.
I don’t care if you disagree. Whatever the law is, this is wrong wrong wrong, and both TIA and you make me feel a little more disappointed with humanity than I already was.
Finally, roommate laws are different than single household laws. It very well could still be against the law. Could a roommate install a camera in the shared bathroom? I don’t know, I’m just asking. And, I wonder if all else feels, if she could still sue the shit out of the guy.
And I don’t hate men. I love men. I’m dating a wonderful one. I have a wonderful father and brother. I have awesome male friends that I hang out with all the time. That was a stupid and ignorant way to try and undermine my perspective.
TIA should organize a skinny dipping party instead of being creepy about it.
(ok its still a little creepy in this context, but at least its not unethical.)
Finally, I just read your comment again and it’s worth noting your arguments are awful!
You exaggerate the opposing view, so you can argue against the extremity of something that no one actually said. That’s a classic move by people who can’t face a real argument.
You also bring up things that have absolutely nothing to do with this situation, or any of the commenters, and base these things on sexist stereotypes all the while claiming misandry. Obnoxious, unfounded and comical (complaining about misandry while making sweeping generalizations about women and their motivations?).
Regardless, going through someone’s room is wrong, including your teenage son’s. In my relationship, I have never once spied on my partner, while he routinely goes through my phone and computer, etc (something I am unhappy about but we are working on). I also don’t like gossip magazines. I think they’re stupid and yes, I do think they violate a person’s privacy. That said, a picture of a celebrity on a public beach, is a completely different beast than videotaping your roommate having sex in their own home. None of your examples have anything to do with this situation. Looking in someone’s bathroom cupboard? Huh? What in the world does that have to do with anything? And no- I’ve never done that. Maybe you’re the one with privacy violation issues?
No, I don’t fit your stereotypes, and I’m not that unusual. Even if I did fit your stereotypes, it wouldn’t make TIA’s idea ok. I don’t buy your arguments. I respect people’s privacy. I hold men and women in equal regard.
To Darcy:
A sound is an object you insert into your urethra.
Puh-leazze, “a climate of repression and misinformation around human sexuality”? repression? Are people serious? We have dads telling us how they stick stuff up their butts and their kids hiding their cross-shaped dildoes, and people sharing the most revolting minutiae about their preferences and fetishes, and we dare to talk about “repression”? Gawd, for the good old days, when children didn’t have free access to the hardest-core of porno or their parents’ sex toys or sexual perversions!
thanks for helping: “JD thanks for the long and thoughtful post. To answer your questions: No, nothing at all–he’s not even interested in holding hands or kissing. . . . He says about the change that it just doesn’t occur to him any more. Always a slender man, he is losing weight now. He sits with his head in his hands at the dinner table and doesn’t hear any family member unless we repeat ourselves a lot or even yell. He’s not hard of hearing, just absent. It’s as if he’s just crumpling into dust right before my eyes. Scary, but the doctor’s thorough check up turned up no health issues.“
You’re welcome. With that additional information, I agree with what a couple other people said: it sounds like depression.
“Part of me is fed up and says to go out and look for fun. (I’m not a total toad, and even at this age it shouldn’t be impossible.) The other part says it’s my job to stay by him through thick and thin. The first part gets me reading Dan’s column; the second caused me to insist on couple’s counseling. I can’t imagine it helping, but what the hell else can I do if I want to stay married? Our first appointment is next week.“
Unless a woman is hideous, it’s never impossible for her to get laid. In fact, it’s very easy for most women. I don’t know why you’ve waited so long to go to couple’s counseling; you said he lost complete interest in sex a year ago. Maybe it won’t help but you won’t know that until you give it a shot. Again, good luck.
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yellow birch: “I’m not post menopausal yet. And at almost 55, my sexual desire has quieted. . . Several friends,around my age, who are not in relationships, have told me they’re more interested in intimacy or a good dance, than sex these days.“
Not surprising to me. I’ve met plenty of women like that on dates. Very little interest in sex and, therefore, not sexy. When you’re a guy in his 50s, it’s hard enough finding a woman who you’re compatible with. And then you have to deal with the lack of interest in sex besides. It sucks. I don’t want to chase after younger women but I understand why a lot of guys do.
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Regarding TIA… to actually videotape, or even spy on, his female roommate would, of course, be a huge invasion of privacy. Yet I maintain this is one of those fundamental general differences between men and women. Even if most men wouldn’t actually go through with it, I think that men are much more likely to think or fantasize about spying on hot naked bodies than women are.
To Oduin,
I’d like to start of by saying I am a male. I read your response about TIA, and the women who responded to his letter. You seem to have some issues with women. Your response brought up topics and arguments that had nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor anything anyone had said.
It may not be illegal, but it is still very wrong.
This guy is trying to justify spying on his roommate. His thinking does sound like it could lead to raping if someone doesn’t tell him otherwise. From the letter, he feels entitled because she is in his room. If he starts that, who knows what else he could start to feel entitled too.
I do agree that it is a bit extreme to compare to rape. But both could be tramatic. And who knows what could happen, he could decide to use it as blackmail or something. He thinking is just wrong.
It’s just a complete breach of trust. One thing that is important to have, especially for people living together, is trust.
You make a lot of assumptions in your response. You think that she is supposed to know he likes her (we don’t know how hot she is, and most people, unless completely egotistical, don’t just assume everyone they come in contact with wants to do them). Also, I’m sure if she had any fear of him recording her, she wouldn’t have bothered staying in his room in the first place. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point.
It all comes down to trust. She trusts him (and is probably walking over him in the process) to let her and her boyfriend stay in his room. She trusts him to not do anything to break that trust.
And being a celebrity is hardly comparable to this. You, I, and anyone else reading know that people care about celebrities. Being in the public eye constantly is something a person signs up for when they are famous. That being said, there are celebrities that seem to disappear after they make there public appearances, only appearing as they please. Some know how to do it better than others.
Being hot, or being someone’s roommate, or both, doesn’t void one’s privacy.
I do realize that you are not condoning what he wants to do, and you did give good advice. But from the sound of your response, you have some issues with females in general…
food+sex= yeast infection
Thanks for the Magic Hat hit! I was on board with Ben & Jerry’s on occasion, but now VT will REALLY get some of my money. 🙂
@ Oduin: you said you were trying to “inject some sanity” before going off on an unhinged rant against women in general. That made me LOL.
And to clear up this silly debate:
Signed into law on 23 June 2003, “Stephanie’s Law” prohibits “unlawful surveillance,” which is defined as (1) the installation of “an imagining device” with no legitimate purpose other than surreptiously viewing or recording another person in a bedroom, bathroom, changing room, or other specified room; (2) for the purposes of sexual arousal or gratification, the use or installation of an imagining device that surreptiously views a person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy; (3) the use or installation of an imagining device to surreptiously view under the clothing of a person (commonly known as “upskirting”); or (4) for amusement, entertainment or profit, or to abuse or degrade the victim, the use or installation of an imaging device to surreptiously record another person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. A person who is found guilty of these crimes, which are rated as class D felonies, can be sentenced to a jail term of between 2 and 7 years, and, if so sentenced, must register with the State’s Sex Offender Registry after release.
So TIA, if you’re reading this, please don’t listen to Oduin’s half-baked personal opinions. What you’re contemplating *is* illegal and *can* get you registered as a sex offender. Keep it in hot fantasy land, find some voyeur porn with girls who look like your roommate, and/or wait until the lease is almost up and confess your desires to her. Who knows, she might have an exhibitionist streak herself!
@ Oduin: you said you were trying to “inject some sanity” before going off on an unhinged rant against women in general. That made me LOL.
And to clear up this silly debate:
Signed into law on 23 June 2003, “Stephanie’s Law” prohibits “unlawful surveillance,” which is defined as (1) the installation of “an imagining device” with no legitimate purpose other than surreptiously viewing or recording another person in a bedroom, bathroom, changing room, or other specified room; (2) for the purposes of sexual arousal or gratification, the use or installation of an imagining device that surreptiously views a person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy; (3) the use or installation of an imagining device to surreptiously view under the clothing of a person (commonly known as “upskirting”); or (4) for amusement, entertainment or profit, or to abuse or degrade the victim, the use or installation of an imaging device to surreptiously record another person dressing or undressing when that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. A person who is found guilty of these crimes, which are rated as class D felonies, can be sentenced to a jail term of between 2 and 7 years, and, if so sentenced, must register with the State’s Sex Offender Registry after release.
So TIA, if you’re reading this, please don’t listen to Oduin’s half-baked personal opinions. What you’re contemplating *is* illegal and *can* get you registered as a sex offender. Keep it in hot fantasy land, find some voyeur porn with girls who look like your roommate, and/or wait until the lease is almost up and confess your desires to her. Who knows, she might have an exhibitionist streak herself!
I love how Oduin came in to “inject some sanity” and instead went off on an unhinged rant against women. That made me LOL.
For anyone interested, google “video voyeurism” and click on the third link. It has a state-by-state breakdown of illegal surveillance laws. You will notice that in most states it is listed as a felony and will almost certainly carry prison time and/or sex offender registry.
So TIA had better keep it in fantasy land, seek out voyeur porn with girls who resemble his roommate and/or wait until the lease is up and confess his attraction. Who knows, she may have an exhibitionist streak herself?
So, yes, Oduin went a little off the reservation a couple of times. However, his central points are strong. Ick, I’m sorry you were raped, but your suggestion that video peeping is worse than rape is just really really dumb. You’re saying that if you had to choose between a peeping tom filming you screwing through your bedroom window, or the same peeping tom climbing through the window, pinning you down, and forcing himself on you, you’d choose the latter? It’s just asinine, and astoundingly offensive to actual rape victims, regardless of whether you are one or not.
Peeping and rape are not equivalent. If you say they are, be prepared to be called an imbecile.
Side note: Dan makes a curious comment that even if the peeper intends to keep these videos to himself, what if his laptop is stolen or if his computer repairman posts them on the internet? I find that curious, because don’t those dangers apply equally to all dirty videos/pictures? Is Dan suggesting that nobody take consensual x-rated shots either?
At any rate, I agree with Dan, and with Oduin, that this secret videotape plan is a bad one. I don’t agree that he should be sent to the electric chair for contemplating it.
@ spinal:
Probably meant “imaging” rather than “imagining.” Not sure what an imagining device is, or how it would apply!
Otherwise, I quite agree and appreciate your response to Oduin’s rant.
“When is it allowed to be “too busy” for sex? Or is it always an excuse?”
Rule of thumb: whenever someone says they are “too busy for…” or “not enough money for…” just insert “…with you” at the end of the phrase, and the meaning will become instantly clear.
Zips, I didn’t say that, so your condescending rant was uncalled for.
I said they are different degrees of the same mentality, and in one WAY it could feel (not that it IS) worse. I explained why I said this. Due to permanent evidence- the violation itself- being out of your control, the unease of the violation is never fully relieved. It is continuous. For me, that is a serious concern. I later said AGAIN that it is not the same thing as rape. And explained again that it is of the same nature, being a sexual violation. So no more putting words in my mouth, please.
I speak for myself, not for every rape victim. However, I would bet that most rape victims would agree with me that a person who thinks it’s ok (all bets are off!) to secretly film private, sexual material- is violating in his roommate- that it is serious- that it shows disregard for the victim- that using another person’s body, without her consent, to satisfy his own sexual needs is of the same mentality as those who sexually assault. The law agrees. As it ends up, he would have to register as a sex offender and go to jail. Perhaps my having been a rape victim makes me recognize and/or take more offense at the mentality. However, by stating my opinion, I am hardly insulting rape victims or an imbecile.
Also, as for the photos you keep forgetting that little thing called consent. If a person consents to take explicit photos, they 1) were not violated (the videotape is NOT of their violation) and 2) agree to the risks of doing so. So, there is a difference, is there not? It’s also evidence of a crime, so it might not play out so well for TIA.
Thanks for helping: This quote from you really worries me. Please encourage him to seek a second opinion (or more), telling the doctor exactly this. Just because one doctor says nothing is wrong physically, does not mean it is true. I hope nothing is seriously wrong, but this does not sound normal. Take care.
“Always a slender man, he is losing weight now. He sits with his head in his hands at the dinner table and doesn’t hear any family member unless we repeat ourselves a lot or even yell. He’s not hard of hearing, just absent. It’s as if he’s just crumpling into dust right before my eyes.”
@ imaginings:
I actually copied and pasted it from a legal website, and didn’t notice it said “imagining device.” It’s an interesting phrase though…perhaps TIA should leave his hot roommate fantasies in his “imagining device” instead of involving an “imaging device”!
@ick: Congratulations. You have shown that, in the strictest technical sense, what you said is true. It was still a really dumb thing to say.
Peeping, even with the aid of a videocamera, is not even in the same zip code as rape. Saying that peeping is worse, even with the tortured explanation, is extremely offensive, and only serves to make light of rape. It’s like me saying that in a way, I’m smarter than Albert Einstein, because I know how to code HTML. Yes, technically it’s true, but that doesn’t change anybody’s response:
“Who cares? Shut the fuck up.”
To Ick, and anybody else who equates this with rape, STOP DILUTING THE CONCEPT OF RAPE. That word needs to mean something. Applying the term “rape” to everything that you find creepy is totally irresponsible. It’s like if your football team lost by six touchdowns and you described the game as a holocaust. It makes you a trifling asshole.
Just find some other word, and I’ll quit insulting you.
You go, Ick!
Zips. You are tiring. I didn’t find some loophole or tortured explanation, I simply restated what I originally said- something which is a direct, obvious repercussion of the act. Sorry if it hurt your brain. I’m not sure why you have chosen me as the person you want to misquote and pick on, but so be it. My comments did not make light of rape.
Here’s what bugs rape victims- “wow, that test totally raped me in the ass!” Not, “setting up hidden cameras in your roommate’s private bedroom (offered to her), with the intention of making a permanent porno collection out of her private life and illegally obtained close-ups of her and her bf’s every body part and sexual act- all without consent- is of the same mentality as rape.” The first makes light of rape. The other is a comment in a legitimate discussion about sexual assault and the mentality of entitlement to other people’s bodies- and the sense of violation one feels when someone has acted on this sense of entitlement.
I do not feel bullied by you. I am entitled to my opinion, and some random guy stepping up to be the white knight for all the other poor, defenseless, voiceless rape victims (but not any other kind of sexual assault victim!) against individual, imbecilic me leaves me very unimpressed. Another thing that bugs rape victims? Coming up with absurd analogies to silence their perspective. As well as, claiming to somehow represent their interests as a whole, while being a ridiculous asshole. Go figure.
HTML has nothing to do with intelligence. Perhaps if Hawking had suggested he was in the same league. Football is a sport. Perhaps if Rwanda survivors had suggested the same. Again, the law- and common sense- agrees that TIA’s hypothetical crime is sexual assault, and serious. It is not as far removed as you, for whatever reasons of your own, are desperate to believe.
There are many different, unique experiences of sexual assault, and as many emotional consequences. Victims often feel deeply betrayed, disillusioned, humiliated, vulnerable, naked, without choice, without control, dirty, their basic humanity valued far less than someone else’s sexual desire- and these are all valid emotional responses to what TIA proposes. Zips, you are clearly privileged. You do not know what it’s like to have someone assume entitlement to your body and violate your rights for his or her own sexual needs. Congrats. Now please- shaddup.
To be honest, I actually get nauseous when I think about sploshing. Also, I think if you are ignorant enough to start rubbing chocolate syrup on your vulva, well, you and your partner deserve that nasty yeast infection. However, just like any other pervertable or sex toy which can be used in icky and irritating ways, it also has its place in the bed- or bathroom of intelligent vanilla peps and kinksters everywhere. My problem is that Dan is a respected and heeded sex advice columnist who said: “Food is for after sex, people, not before, and never, ever during. Food is not a sex toy, not even chocolate.” He did not use the words “I,” or “it is my opinion that.” Dan stated that food is not a sex toy as if it were fact, and one which could bring hell and damnation upon any (even thoughtful) transgressor. It isn’t. It won’t. And I believe Dan was negligent in his wording.
Damn…given the cam opportunity…what a dilemma.
I’d probably still consider doing it, even though it’s illegal, even though it’s assholery.
Because that video, as TIA said, would BE his porn for life.