My 14-year-old son just came
out to me. He has a slightly older boyfriend, and they’re going to the
school dance on Saturday night. I am adjusting to a truth I had long
suspected. I am worried, though, that my son will get hurt. We live in
the South—North Carolina—but our town has a gay community
and an annual pride parade. When I asked him if the other students at
school would be cool with him bringing a boy, he said, “Who cares?”
Bullying is not a huge problem at his school.
We have had the sex talk several times, but
I have always assumed a hetero approach. I think my son is too young
for sleepovers with his boyfriend, and I would really like him to wait
a couple more years before he gets seriously sexually active, though I
expect petting and kissing are givens. Any advice?
Still My Son
Treat your son to some of that equal
treatment we gay people are always going on about, SMS, and treat him
just like you’d treat your 14-year-old straight kid. No responsible
parent would allow his 14-year-old daughter—and that’s how you
should think of him for now (more on that in a moment)—to have
sleepovers with her slightly older boyfriend, right? So no sleepovers
for your gay kid. Remember: You can be supportive and be his advocate
without signing off on stuff you wouldn’t sign off on for a straight
child—indeed, it’s the best way to show your support.
What else can you do? You can hover,
scrutinize, interfere—all the crap that parents typically do when
their children begin to date. For instance, SMS, this boy your son is
seeing? Have you met him? Meet him. How much older is he? Find out. Are
they messing around? Ask them. Make sure your son understands that he
doesn’t have to engage in anal intercourse to be authentically gay, or
all grown-up, or out. He can take things slow—he should take
things slow. Encourage your son to date, to hold hands, to make out.
And you should, as awkward as it’s going to feel to say so aloud,
encourage your son, when he does become sexually active, to stick with
mutual masturbation and oral sex for a good, long time—until he’s
sure he’s ready for intercourse, not just anxious for it.
Getting back to the daughter business: You
should also regard your son, at least through his adolescence, as more
of a daughter to you than a son. We tend to be more protective of our
daughters—our straight daughters—than we are of our sons.
Why? A sexist desire to keep our daughters “pure”? That’s a part of it,
sure, but there’s also this: Men are pigs, and people on the receiving
end of male sexual desire/attention are in more danger than people on
the receiving end of female sexual desire/attention. (In
general—individual results may vary.) Testosterone is the crystal
meth of hormones, a badass drug, and men are more likely to be abusive
and violent. The prevalence of HIV among gay men makes the stakes
higher for your son. So don’t allow him to date anyone you don’t get to
meet and approve of, and don’t confuse “being supportive” with “letting
him do whatever/whomever he wants.” Be active, be engaged, and never
stop being his meddling, interfering, hypersuspicious dad.
Good luck, SMS. It sounds like your son
lucked out having you as a parent.
I’ve been seeing this guy for
about two years. We’ve been living together for six months now, and
it’s been REALLY bumpy. We fight a lot, I cry a lot, and it just gets
really messy. To tell you the truth, I’m tired of it. I work two jobs,
and I never get any time to myself because he’s moody and insecure. He
always wants to know where I’m going or who I’m with. He doesn’t like
to do the same things I do, and I’m beginning to think this is all one
big mistake. The problem is every time I try to leave, it always gets
ugly. Ugly to the point that he’s thrown my stuff in the front yard,
broken things of mine, and even called me names. He’s abusive.
As sad as this sounds, and as ridiculous as
I feel, I want to make this work. I want us to be happy. And the thing
is, I know that we can be. When we’re mad, it’s like World War III over
here. But when we’re happy, it’s so blissful that I know in my heart
with him is the only place I want to be. What can I do? People tell me
it’s time to sever ties, but the people who usually tell me this are
the ones who can’t stand him. How can I make a completely unbiased
decision? Am I stupid for believing in a love that feels destined to
fail?
Hopelessly Devoted To Him
This is not a relationship, HDTH, it’s a
hostage situation. He’s a controlling, abusive piece of
shit—listen to your fucking friends, HDTH. When
your boyfriend breaks your shit, he’s making an implicit threat: I
can break your face just as easily as I’m breaking your shit, bitch, so
don’t even think about leaving me. And of course things are
great when they’re great—that’s part of an abuser’s MO. If
abusers were abusive 24/7—if they weren’t capable of doling out a
little bliss now and then—no abusive relationship would last
longer than one date. Like all abusers, he parcels out the good times,
doping you up with a little bliss now and then, because he knows that
these glimpses of how great things could be convince you to
stick around against your better judgment.
The bliss is a con, HDTH, a weapon that he
uses against you, just as much a part of the cycle of abuse as his
tantrums, fits, and threats of violence are. Think of the good times as
rainbow sprinkles on a dog-shit sundae—sprinkles or no sprinkles,
you’re still standing there with a bowlful of dog shit in your
hands.
Get a couple of friends to come over when
he’s at work or out of town, box up your shit, and leave. You can’t
change him. Go.
Apropos of nothing, Savage,
you fucking suck ass.
You And Your Column Both Suck
Have I ever claimed otherwise?
And apropos of nothing, YAYCBS, I’m totally
grooving on Garfunkel & Oates right now (www.garfunkelandoates.com), and
everyone has to check them out; Perez Hilton was absolutely right about
Miss California (she is a dumb bitch); Seattle-based artist Kim
Graham (www.kimgrahamstudios.com) is
getting centaur fetishists halfway there; and I recently visited the
University of Georgia in Athens, where the kids asked me to come up
with a dirty meaning for “between the hedges,” which is their football
stadium’s nickname. Off the top of my head, I said, “The boy in a
girl-boy-girl three-way could be described as being between the
hedges.” But upon further reflection, I think the term is a better
description of going down on a woman with a particularly hairy
bush—and the tongue, not the boy/girl doing the tonguing, is
“between the hedges.”
Savage, you fucking rock my world and I look forward to your column each week.
Love,
MN
BLAMO!
The best advice I’ve ever gotten was, “It’s okay to say ‘No’.” Too bad it came too late to save me from the hardships that had happened already.
It was an amazing, profound piece of advice that, as a gay man, I had wished I had received sooner.
the advice to the father of the 14 year old was perfect 🙂
SMS, I can’t imagine what growing up with a parent like you would have been like. For a kid to be ok with telling their parent at 14 that they’re gay is just wonderful. What will a gay community look like when fewer and fewer of us our tortured by our communities and families for the first 18-20 years of our lives? I’m excited to find out.
Did I miss something in the letter by “Still my Son” that implied the LW was a man and not a woman? Dan and others assume it was written by a father. Why?
Great advice to SMS. Now I feel old, though. Times have really changed when a newly outed young gay man is not afraid to bring his boyfriend to the school dance. Wow, amazing. Makes me *almost* want to move back there just to see if it’s true (had some bad experiences growing up in rural NC, though.) Your column is one of the highlights of my week, Dan.
@ 12–No kidding. I grew up in Canada, went to high school in the mid-90s and to a very liberal school, and the concept of bringing a boy to a dance was absolutely unthinkable. Sigh. Some days I wish I could be 16 again, right now.
So basically, you’re telling SMS to behave exactly like my mother. (Or at least, to behave exactly like my mother would have if I’d come out to her at that age — since, as I discovered when I *did* come out to the family at 19, she’d suspected since I was 5 and was just waiting for me to tell her.)
(And no, I’m not gloating about my *fabulous* gay-supportive mother. Who now works as a psychologist who specializes in giving parents of LGBT people the same advice you give to SMS, at greater length.)
(OK, maybe I *am* gloating. Just a bit.)
(Or a lot.)
Dan, you rock. No seriously… you rock and I think you’re the cat’s pajamas. (Where in the world did that saying come from, anyway?) MUCH LOVE and thanks for being a wonderful part of my otherwise crazy life as a law student.
@11, I also thought it was a mother writing.
@11, @ 16
Sometimes Dan edits letters for length and clarity. Maybe he accidentally removed the part that identified SMS as a father.
Great advice to SMS Dan. My only addition would be that many cities in North Carolina now have GBLT youth programs, they maybe a little hard to find but the programs certainly exist. For the parents of the young man I would remind them that pflag is active though out North Carolina.
SMS sounds like the true embodiment of the concept of unconditional love. Not everyone feels that from their parents growing up, so his (or her) son is a very lucky kid. I agree totally with Dan’s advice – 14 is too young, regardless of sexual orientation, to be in an intense physical relationship. I am a straight 31-year-old woman who lost her virginity at the tender age of 13 and now wish that my Irish Catholic parents were capable of being open about sex in this way. Maybe I would have waited.
Just one question, though – wasn’t a big part of this parent’s question about whether or not his (or her) son was in danger from the school and/or community? Dan didn’t seem to answer that part.
About SMS, I think Dan was right on, 14 is too young to have the full spectrum of sexual activity although pressure and curiosity are important factors. An advice to the parent of the boy to check the age of the elder boy and be there please be there when (and if) the relation fells apart.
HDTH, listen to Dan advice get yourself out of this damaging relationship I am fearing for your life. You can’t possibly imagine what harm this man can do to you both mentallly and physically. Seek also advice thru councelling because I suspect that you are attracted to this kind of behavior… it might be a problem of low esteem.
HDTH – I’ve been EXACTLY there. Take Dan’s advice, take your friends’ advice, take any mental health professional’s advice and get out NOW. The abusive relationship I escaped was only 6 months old and we were just moving in together. It took me lots of therapy and nearly a year of cold-turkey no communication with the abuser to feel extricated from those feelings that “things would be perfect if only…” Now I am 6 months into a completely different, completely AMAZING relationship and I never thought it could be so good — and I am beyond relieved not to be in an abusive relationship anymore. You have taken the first step and admitted that he is, in fact, abusive. Keep walking — home to get your stuff, to the therapist to get support — you can totally do this.
Your first response was a gem, Dan. Being supportive means more than approval of your child’s nature, it means giving them structure and ground rules for their own benefit.
Hey Dan, For SMS I would add watching the only show on cable with teenage boy that’s gay; The United States of Tara on Showtime. It’s great comedy drama and the family dynamic is all about the love. SMS your son hit the jackpot with you as a Dad and make sure you do everything Dan suggests.
Dan, great job.
SMS- Bless you. You sound like a great parent, your son is lucky.
HDTH- DTMFA, and find out what is required to obtain a restraining order (I hope you will not need one). You deserve better.
Awesome advice for HDTH! What I love about Dan’s advice is that there’s no pussy-footing. He’s not afraid to say, “Get the hell out of the relationship,” which is great because he’s absolutely right and this girl needs an order right now lest she gets sucked into more of this guy’s bullshit. And the metaphor of “the dog shit with sprinkles on top” was absolutely perfect too. Makes it crystal clear what this poor girl is dealing with. Advice for SMS great too — taught me (a straight woman) a lot about seeing things from another perspective. So thanks!
Great column these week, Dan — keep it up!
Dan hit it out of the park with his first response.
This is the first time I am commenting, because HDTH’s letter to you sounds exactly like something I could have written myself when I was younger.
HDTH – Listen to Dan! He is right on the fucking money. I ignored all of my friends’ advice – as well as my gut instincts – and stayed with the guy for NINE YEARS. I stayed with him even when he destroyed the front room, even when he threw drinks in my face, even when he ripped up my books for reading when he wanted my attention, even when he sat on my chest and punched me in the face and choked me into unconsciousness. Yet I stayed with him because I thought I loved him, and because I felt like all of his problems with his temper were my fault, were the fault of his childhood, of his ex-girlfriend – everyone pretty much except him.
But then of course, I finally left him, because life is too fucking short to spend it living in terror of an emotional infant, and I ended up meeting someone with whom I was truly in love, and who truly loved me. Because this is the thing – if someone loves you, they respect you as a person. They love you for all of you, not what they want from you. They don’t try to scare you or get in your face or disrespect you. Love and fear cannot coexist. You cannot love someone you are afraid of.
And I’ll tell you what. Things will not change for as long as you are still with him. He will throw his fits and destroy your stuff, and he’ll apologize for it, but he will not change his behavior, because by staying, you are showing him that he CAN do these things and that he will NOT be held accountable for his behavior. He has no incentive to change, because he knows you will always be around no matter how horribly he behaves. Not that it is even your responsibility to change him. Your responsibility is to yourself and no one else.
So please, please, please, get out now. You know this situation is not right. Listen to your gut and leave before it escalates and you find yourself even more entangled than you already are now.
Hopelessly Devoted should leave immediately, before she becomes “hopelessly broken”. I left an abusive friendship 3 years ago, but it didn’t leave me. There were so many times when she was verbally abusive or she humiliated me in front of our friends and I thought about ditching her and I didn’t. Even though I finally walked away, it was too late. It was after the abuse escalated and things had gone seriously wrong. I spent one shitty, scary year living with her. If I had ditched her when it was just verbal abuse I would be much better off.
As it turns out she is in some kind of trouble with the law. I’ve been under investigation for at least 2.5 years that I know about, possibly longer, simply for being friends with the wrong person. I’ve been harassed at work, at home, in public and it’s probably not going to stop anytime soon. I hope she gets what she deserves someday, even if it takes the rest of my life to see her go to jail. This bitch deserves worse than I could ever give her myself. I hope she gets a life sentence or worse.
Just wanted to say, SMS’s letter and Dan’s response brought tears to my eyes. I’m not sure if they’re tears of joy for the pure unconditional love of a parent, or tears of sadness for all the people I’ve known who did not have such a supportive experience of coming out. Maybe things are changing for the better — they are in one house in North Carolina that I know of. Wouldn’t it be grand?
Although knowing you are gay and coming out at 14 is truely brave, he will be missing all the sleep overs since the parent thinks they will be sexual. And you know what, they may just be. 14 through 17 were the major years for experimentation with my “straight” buddies. It was ackward, exciting and mind blowing. It’s a shame he won’t be able to experience most of this. Best of luck to this young man.
@ YAYCBS, why write to someone that you dislike soo much?
DAN I think you do a GREAT FUCKING JOB! I always look forward to reading your articles. You brighten up my week so, Brush those haters off!
BTW- I had also thought the first article was written by a mother too! Guess I was wrong
mmmmm, sprinkles. sprinkles are nice but not if you have to pick them off poo. get the heck out, it’s not worth the moments of bliss. so much easier said than done, but you have to. best of luck, HD.
He’s right, HDTH. Damn fine advice.
I don’t understand how women end up in long term abusive relationships. I grew up the victim of a father like this, and I didn’t have any choice in the matter. I also wished with all my heart every day for 11 years that my mother would kill him and get it over with. It’s not fair. You don’t want to bring children under the command of someone like that.
Your advice to SMS is good and bad.
By 14, I had had sex during sleepovers in the closet. 🙂 By not allowing sleepovers, you’re creating a sex-cautious environment that causes the kids to go fuck like bunnies in the forest or parks. *By fuck, I am not merely referring to the act of anal sex, but oral and masturbation. **By 14, I had had anal sex, so its not out of the question. 14-year-old boys want to fuck, maybe slightly less than their slightly older counter-parts. And, they will find places to do it. You might as well create an appropriate place for it.
On the other hand, I agree that being supportive does not mean letting him do whomever he wants. Just create an environment where he can go to practice safe sex with appropriate people and he will probably make better choices…and, if he doesn’t, ground the fucker!
Overall a pretty mainstream column this week. Let’s get back to the freaks asking for advice on pegging, scubba-gear fetishes and rape fantasy. And I mean freaks in a good way. 🙂
Wow. Dan, it has been awhile since I read both letters in your column & was wildly enthusiastic in my agreement with both of your responses. You knocked it outta the park, this week. & you’re right, that kid is damn lucky to have this understanding, supportive father.
Hopelessly Devoted: Listen to Dan. That’s classic abusive behavior – & you’re allowing/enabling it to occur. It doesn’t matter if the good times outnumber the bad times. What he’s doing to you is violent & one day it’ll be you he’s hitting, not just your stuff. Get a friend w/ a truck & get out, even if you have to do it when he’s not around. & for awhile after that, check in with your friends & family, okay? This guy sounds like the vengeful type.
There’s lots of non-asshole men out there, but this ain’t one of ’em – he sounds even past therapy help. Go ASAP, protect yourself.
Great work Dan. I always look forward to Wednesdays so I can see the new column. Also, it’s so nice to see examples of really great parents.
Hey Dan, I’ve been reading your column for years, and will continue to do so until one of us dies. Honestly, I thought you were kind of an arrogant bastard at times, and sometimes your columns used to piss me off because you were frequently biased and insensitive…which, fine, maybe you were a little and still are at times. But overall, I’ve come to appreciate the meaning behind your words, and I think your columns are amazing. Saw you on youtube the other day, shared you with a friend who has troubles reading. Next time I have an insecurity/sex problem, I’m going to youtube so I can listen to tell it like it is. I think you’re one of the smartest people alive where it matters. Now I’ll end my overly-appreciative fan rant…You rock! Thanks!
“Going between the hedges” should mean the butt-cheek equivalent of “titty fucking,” i.e. when a penis (or dildo, I suppose) is slid between the “hedges” of one’s butt-cheeks.
“Between the hedges,” definition #2…It reminds me of a limerick:
There was a young queen of Bulgaria
Whose bush had grown hairier and hairier
‘Till a prince from Peru
Who came up for a screw
Had to hunt for her cunt with a terrier
HDTH,
I’ve been there. I understand that when the good times are good they are really good and it can be so convincing. But trust Dan on this. I think his sprinkles on a dogshit sundae is a perfect analogy. If you don’t leave this guy now, you will wake up 5 years from now wondering why the F you wasted the best years of your young life with him. I know. I did.
Having trouble understanding this guy or why you feel so hooked on him? Read the book “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft. You can get it on Amazon. You can download it on your kindle! I didn’t read the book until many years after I’d “gotten out” but it helped me understand what the F was going on all those years he made my life a roller coaster from hell. He wasn’t “sensitive,” he had Borderline Personality Disorder and the good times were just the calm between his psychological shit storms! Wish I’d read this book when I was 22 and left his ass three years sooner!
Don’t waste your life! DTMFA!!
Ahhh, I LOVE Garfunkel and Oates!! Thanks for mentioning them, Dan!
good advice to HDTH dan… too bad she won’t listen to you. you’re now officially classified as one of those “people who can’t stand him” and therefore dismissed. i was there once too. she’ll have to hit rock bottom before she leaves, and maybe then she’ll find that there are guys out there who will give you the bliss 24/7.
For some reason I’m bothered more than usual about the “men are pigs” generalization, especially since I’ve put so much work into not being a pig, myself.
I’d say some men are pigs, or that men are sometimes pigs, or that men can be pigs, but I don’t think that men are intrinsically pigs, at least no more than are women.
Naked apes, assuredly and unabashedly. Pigs, not necessarily.
Other than that, awesome answers, Dan.
dog shit w/sprinkles best metaphor ever !
HDTH may consider that her partner is suffering Boderline Personality Disorder.
HDTH – I have been in EXACTLY the same situation in the past, and got out and realized it was the best thing I had ever done to leave. I had thought he was the man I would marry. Trust me – we can be 100% sure that someone behaves like that will not change, no matter how good the “good times” seem – and you will be happier and your life will be so much better than you know right now when you’re out. I promise!
Listen to Dan, HDTH!!! In my early 20’s I met and lived with a woman who was exactly like your boyfriend. The good times were great and the bad times were BAD. She constantly eroded my self worth, belittled me in front of my friends, and threatened to destroy my life if I left. At one point I told my coworkers to call the police if I didn’t come to work. I was young and figured that was how normal relationships worked.
She was at a company outing when I had the few friends I had left come over and help me move (4 hours). I ended up moving to another state to get away from her completely. It turned out she was bipolar and had been institutionalized prior to me meeting her.
I look back and hate the fact that she wasted 2 1/2 years of my life. On the upside, I am a better man for having to suffer through it. It did take a long time to recover and rebuild myself.
I almost laughed aloud when I read HDTH’s letter. reading it was like reading my last relationship. I wish i’d known of this column when I was in the 3 years of hell. The advice you gave her was perfect. Thank you for always saying what needs to be said and for your sweet and perfect advice to SMS. <3
OMG! To the “people who don’t like him” comment! That is EXACTLY how my friend justifies her marriage. Anyone who says boo shit diddly against her obviously fucked up marriage “is against him.” Which, ironically is exactly what HE says whenever anyone has the unmitigated temerity to offer an opinion contrary to his (wanna go get pancakes? No, I’m in the mood for omelettes. 2 hours later: they’re against me.)
Goddamn. It’s so easy to see from the outside and IMPOSSIBLE for the person in the relationship to notice. Like tuning bagpipes, I guess.
@Delta: Dan edits the letters and the details that he sees sometimes don’t make it into the final version. The original letter probably had “I’m a dad…” in there somewhere.
@49 I am sorry you ended up in such a crummy relationship. I want to let you know though — bipolar & institutionalized does not equal abusive and terrifying. Some of we formerly institutionalized bipolar chicks are primarily gentle, loving people. I say this because so many times I hear people blame abusive behavior on craziness, but mentally ill people are usually not abusive. In any case I’m really glad for you that you got out and got over her!
I’m liable to be flamed for this but: Who’s the abusive one in HDTH’s relationship? We heard her side of the story (eg, he’s parinoid that she’s cheating on him (does he have a reason to be?), she cries when break-up talk happens, he gets mad and throws her stuff to the curb… etc).
However, who’s controling who? It could just as easily be a situation where she’s taking advantage of him, cheating on him, etc, then playing the “I’ll get better, really I will this time” game when break-up time really happens. I’ve known women who seem to enjoy the “see what it takes to make the guy angry” game in the past (constantly belittling them, accusing the guy of cheating if he just goes to play pool with the guys (even if she was invited), meanwhile telling the guy it’s none of his business what she’s doing when she goes out late without him… then blame the guy when he finally get upset and talks back… I’ve seen guy’s lives get ruined by such women. Heck, I’ve dated such women.
Just because one of the people in the relationship is a guy, it doesn’t automatically mean all the problems are solely the guys fault.
Anyway regardless of who’s the “bad” one in HDTH’s relationship, it’s not a healthy one. They should break up.
@45: nah, we’re pigs.
While most of us try to be human, if you’re going to be a clueless, vulnerable, and easy lay, your danger quotient goes way, WAY up if pursued by a pack of predatory men than a pack of predatory women.
In fact, who in the hell gets pursued by a pack of predatory women?