You were recommended to me by
an acquaintance familiar with your column and podcast. I am a
20-year-old male, and as such have certain desires that almost all
20-year-old males have (desires of a sexual nature). However, I am
deeply religious. Religion has been for me a source of strength in my
times of weakness, a rock in the times of storm, and above all a home
to return to when I have lost my path. In the teachings of my
particular religion, to indulge the particular desires I am
experiencing will condemn me to fates too grotesque to mention. I am
rational enough to realize that there is no way that I can “pray away”
these desires. My question is this: How does one prepare for a life of
celibacy and solitude (as that is what is required of me to remain a
member of this particular faith)? Based on what my friend has told me,
I know you have little respect for religious practices and beliefs.
However, these desires are not exactly something I can talk about with
other members of my spiritual community. And while I am currently
seeking counseling related to other issues, I was wondering what a
so-called expert on sex and sexuality would have to say.
Clever Acronyms Escape Me
Get over yourself, faggot.
If it’s possible for you to act on your
unnamed-but-easily-identified desires in an ethical manner—if you
desire to do whatever it is you desire to do with consenting adults who
desire to take their turn doing it to you—this so-called expert
on sexuality thinks you should crawl down off that cross and find
yourself a boyfriend already. (“Pray away” the gay? I’m guessing you’re
Christian, probably Catholic.) And if you experience a moment’s anxiety
the first time you stick your ass in the air—pull the Jesus stick
out first!—just remind yourself that things have been crawling on
top of each other and madly humping away for 850 million years.
Sex came first, then humanity (200,000ish years ago), then religion
came along tens of thousands of years after that. Which may explain why
religion, when pitted against sex (really old) and human nature (pretty
old), always loses. Always.
If you’re on the cross, CAEM, it’s because
you put yourself up there. Which means you’re not some poor mortal
trapped between a cosmic rock and an existential hard place; you’re
just another closeted cocksucker with a martyr complex.
Look, kiddo, you get one life, one chance at
happiness. If it gives you a spiritual semi to fantasize about a God
who created you gay but forbids you to act on your emotional and sexual
attraction to men, knock your damn self out. But you can have a
boyfriend and Jesus, too—look at the pope—you just have to
do what people have been doing since the first terrified idiot invented
the first bullshit religion: improvise. Find yourself a
brand-new religion or sect, or jettison the bits of your current faith
that don’t work for you. If you know anything about the history of
Christianity—and it sounds like you don’t—then you know
that the revisions began before the body was cold. No reason to stop
now.
And finally, CAEM, there is no God—you
do realize that, right? No hell below us, above us only sky, etc.
I’m an only child, male, born
to a single mom. I’m about to turn 21, and I’ve been with a great guy
for over a year. I may be in love. We both have steady jobs, and we
want to move in together. He came out to his parents after we started
dating, and now I think it’s my turn. Problem is, I don’t know how to
break it to my mother. She’s a tiny Mexican woman who isn’t afraid of
smacking me. I’m afraid to tell her. She always talks bad about the gay
lifestyle because she considers herself Christian, although not the
churchgoing kind. When and how do I break the news that she’s not
getting grandkids from me?
Her Only Male Offspring
Your mom is my favorite kind of “Christian.”
She’s not the “churchgoing kind,” as that would require some personal
sacrifice on her part (of her Sunday mornings, at least). And she
certainly didn’t let her faith interfere with her sex life (I’m
assuming your conception was something short of immaculate*). But when
it comes to other people’s lives, when it comes to your sexuality and mine, HOMO, then her Christian values kick into
high gear. How convenient.
Okay, HOMO, lots of us have come out to
hostile moms and dads and watched in awe as they morphed into the
loving, supportive parents we didn’t know they were capable of being.
For some parents the process is quick, for others it’s slow, but it
can’t start until you come out.
Now here’s when you come out: The sooner the
better—but don’t come out to your mother while she has the power
to harm you, i.e., if you’re dependent on her for a place to live or if
she’s paying for your education. And here’s how: by U.S. mail. Don’t
give your mother the chance to smack you. Write her a letter, include
the contact info for the PFLAG chapter in your area, and tell her
you’ll discuss this with her after she attends a meeting, not
before.
Finally, when I came out to my mother, the
first thing out of her mouth was, “I don’t ever want to meet any
boyfriends.” She said the word “boyfriend” like it had been
dipped in shit. On her deathbed, my mother told me to tell my boyfriend
that she loved him (“like a daughter”). My mom came around, HOMO, and
so can yours. But not until you tell her.
My husband and I got married
recently. His first pick for best man was his older brother, “St.
Paul,” a seminary student studying to become a priest. When my husband
asked, he started crying and said he had hoped my husband would return
to the church. We are both liberal ex-Catholics. For a wedding gift,
Paul gave us a book called Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of
the Body, 700 pages of dogma by JP2. In the five years I’ve known him,
he has rarely said more than one sentence to me, yet he speaks boldly
in favor of the church’s most conservative doctrines at family
gatherings. How much of his bullshit do I have to deal with? I’m a huge
fan of yours, and I know that you’ve had some issues reconciling your
own life with loved ones within the Catholic Church. Your advice would
be appreciated.
The Schismatic
Man… so intolerant.
I’m talking about you, TS, not your
brother-in-law. Don’t get me wrong: Your brother-in-law sounds like
total douchedrizzle. But he has a right to his opinions and a right to
express them. You have a right to your opinions, too, of course, and
just as much a right to express them. When St. Paul goes off on
premarital sex or the ordination of women or the gays and their Prada
loafers, smile and tell him he’s full of shit. You don’t see him too
often, right? Tolerate his bullshit—that’s what family
does—and count your blessings.
And don’t complain about every word that
comes out of his mouth and then gripe about how little he has to
say to you.
* Note to Bill Donohue: Yes, I’ve confused
the virgin birth with the Immaculate Conception. So sue me,
motherfucker.
@49 – so, by that logic, closeted gays are more shy about expressing themselves than other sexuality minorities? WTF? / Inaccurate. Couldn’t he be talking about screwing the pastor’s wife, too?
@136: ” If he were straight, I’m assuming he would right to someone else. “
So only gay people can be assumed to write to Dan? What, are you NEW here??
“There would have to be something they have in common in order for him to seek advice from him.”
See above, AND: advice columnists are NOT defined that way: so then ann landers must have everything in common with the )people she helped? Miss manners must be as rude/crass/gauche as the ignorant masses that write to her? )
You are a circular logic troll. Go back to your loop-de-loop bridge.
@145 – you need to look up atheism and get the definition straight.
@146 – so you don’t believe/know that some religions are businesses, and in those cases, god would be invented not to create a myth but to fleece people)? Now who’s the idiot…?
@111: I’m still not seeing the full proof, in the letter as published, that CAEM’s issue is homosexuality nor that his religion is christian. The issue could still be some taboo kink, or freaky style, adultery, pedaphilia, necrophilia, or swinger culture – many that would land them in hot water with their minister/flock.
– it’s just not statedIf there’s more to the letter, or if it arrived with pink triangles all over the envelope, then we’d have a little more to work with – – but as is, Dan comes off not smelling great to some readers.
@137 You get +10 Internet Religion Argument Points for mentioning Dawkins. WTG
Seriously hatin’ up the religion today. I’m not very religious – I wouldn’t call myself atheist or agnostic or “spiritual” because I honestly don’t think about it too much – but I think that telling an obviously religiously-conflicted gay person that they have to choose one or the other creates inevitable doom. Not everyone has to shed the entirety of their former persona in order to accept themselves.
Ah, the phase of hating yourself, wanting to know how it could be so wonderful yet so wrong… brings back memories.
I had a very frank discussion with God, with my sexual partner (who was even more conservatively raised than I). Guess what? God gave us the urges, so he wouldn’t have done that to one and let the other consent if it would lead to this Mythical Roasting Place. I agree, get over yourself; we had to.
AS to coming out, that’s always interesting to look at the relationship over time:
My mom at first: Oh, well, Okay I still love you but don’t tell people about it. (WTF?!)
Her mom at first: *Falls to ground and starts praying* You can’t see her anymore!
My mom a little later: It’s just a phase! You’re going to hell and I’m just worried about your well-being! You can’t see her anymore! Why should you talk on the phone so much? I don’t talk to you father that much! (Well, mom, you and dad married to appease God for your pre-marital children and hate each other’s guts and cheat and near divorce every chance you get, but whatever….)
Her Mom a little later: We should get you to wear girl’s clothes like that girl. (Hee, I’m “that girl?” Sounds like a super hero.)
My mom seven years later (yeah, we’re actually still together…): I love her like a daughter now, I’m so happy you have someone who takes care of you. *Sends anniversary cards*
Her Mom seven years later: I’m going to go shopping with her (oh, she uses my name now!). And buy her clothes. Because I can dress HER up like a girl. And I’m okay with it, just don’t talk about it around certain ones of my friends….
Progress, slow but works. Hurts sometimes, but you deal with it.
THough I do wish somebody had introduced me to Pflag before I cam out. Would have made things much easier.
@151: “I’m still not seeing the full proof, in the letter as published, that CAEM’s issue is homosexuality nor that his religion is christian. The issue could still be some taboo kink, or freaky style, adultery, pedaphilia, necrophilia, or swinger culture – many that would land them in hot water with their minister/flock.”
I fail to see how an urge toward adultery, swinger culture, or even kink would doom him to a life alone. It’s not “adultery or nothing” for anyone I’ve ever heard of. He might want guys, kids, dogs, dead people or nothing, and that would make more sense. And where do I spend IRAP points?
“God gave us the urges, so he wouldn’t have done that to one and let the other consent if it would lead to this Mythical Roasting Place.”
I’m totally with you on the wonderfulness of your lesbian urges. BUT, the God of the Bible is a quirky, vindictive, and frequently nasty character. He demands blood sacrifice; he could very well give you an urge you’re meant to resist (or, it’s your sinful nature / somehow he didn’t determine your urges despite being omnipotent). I agree that would make him an unsavory guy to worship, but I know you don’t think people with unacceptable, say, violent, urges have God’s blessing to follow them. What you realized, instead, was that religion is wrong headed and internally inconsistent–take the final step and toss out the idea of a God watching you and your lover in bed along with all the other nonsense the religion taught you.
Last I checked, there were multiple religions that condemn homosexuality. In fact, most of them do. Religion is kind of evil…
I used to be a hooker (I’m a dude), and this one time I had a client who confided he was a seminary student, and confused, and didn’t know what to do about being gay. So I “lent” him my copy of ‘Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality’ by John Boswell [btw: will EVERYONE please go read this book – it’s packed with all the ammunition you will ever need against the Christian homophobia machine and it’s a fun read]. He was so out of touch with his body that he actually came back from the bathroom with toilet paper stuck to his butt. No lie. Anyway I tried to be gentle regarding the religion thing. I didn’t really expect to ever see my book again, but it would have been nice if he had called to thank me for it.
Anyone who says the bible is clear on homosexuality hasn’t actually read it, or else is lying. Because in the book of Samuel you will find one of the most beautiful gay love stories ever written: David and Jonathan. This is the same David who goes on to become king of Israel. If you follow his story, during his secret affair with Jonathan, God always has David’s back, protecting him from peril, and elevating him in political power. But David falls out of grace with God later in life when he has an affair with a married woman, and sends the husband to his death to cover it up. Moral of the story: God is cool with boys sleeping together, but God is not cool with the killing of an innocent person.
It’s sort of interesting to juxtapose this story with the position of the Christian right in relation to homosexuals and the Iraq war…
I am a new subcriber so be gentle. I just finished listening to a lovecast where the subject was a tg whose family wouldn’t support their needs; financially or emotionally. I am a straight, married thirty-six year old who buys make-up, heels, dresses, and all the usual accoutrements every time I have to show up for “family circus”. I never use any of this more than once. Is there someplace I can send it where a tg in this situation could use it? I also have two perfectly working cell phones that have been replaced by “updates” by my parents. Could these be sent anywhere beneficial to the the glbtg community?
wayne @108, while the revisions began before the body was cold may be an exaggeration, it’s only a slight one. One of the reasons the Resurrection of Christ is so significant an issue (most denominations of Christianity require acceptance of the Resurrection as truth) is because it marks the clearest crux of revisionism. In the original tale, when Christ’s empty tomb is discovered, the story ends; religion was supposed to be the domain of the individual and God, which drastically contrasted with the complex hierarchy that was accepted in early Judaism. Hence the story of the resurrection was made after the fact, in which the Church was established.
Shomondo @132, jeffsd @146 et. al. One of the problems of trying to prove the existence of God (beyond the issue of the nature of proof, that I discussed above) is the difficulty in getting everyone to agree on the God’s qualities. If we define God as one and the same as the universe (or, as speculated in string theory the multiverse, for which we haven’t a solidly defined name), then no proof is necessary, since cogito ergo sum equates to cogito ergo Deo. (please forgive my poor Latin.) Similarly, if we define a personal higher power (in the 12-step sense) as one’s wise mind (the psychological construct), again we can presume it is there, since evidence of it is manifest. Once we start assigning properties to God to fit the biblical deities, however — consciousness, omniscience, omnipotence, anthropomorphism, masculinity, interest in human affairs, etc. — the likelihood of such a construct actually existing as described starts to rapidly decline. In fact, the degree of anthropomorphism described in the old testament counts as evidence that the biblical god is a construct of men, not the other way around. Human qualities emerge from the the nature of human existance. A god without the same needs we have would demonstrate an entirely different set of interpersonal qualities.
This idea, that God may be completely different to Its decription in religious texts is seldom address by the religious activists that seek to demonstrate God’s existence. This is a noteworthy oversight, since it’s not addressed by some of the strongest Christian-based fronts against science. The Discovery Institute, for example in the promotion of Intelligent Design Theory seeks to prove we couldn’t have evolved through random mutations filtered by of a lot of time. They hope to, by doing so, prove the Judeo-Christian dogma. At very best, though, if they could find the signatures of our creators in our DNA, for example, they would only prove our exospermic origins, not that we were divinely created at all.
I would add, Shomondo, faith is less about belief and more about fealty, that is, loyalty to the divine despite how ridiculous it may seem. An Arabian adage illustrates it well, If at noon the caliph says it is midnight, behold the stars!
A relevant adage of a more recent time: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire
As for your declared knowledge of the divine I would paraphrase Dawkins in noting the human mind has a great capacity for interpretation.
Rev.Smith @151, why does yonush18 get Internet Religion Argument Points for mentioning Dawkins, but I do not? I mentioned him first.
presently out @155 the Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have provisions against sex outside authorized unions, and to differentiate social and worship practices from those of other deities, which have been reinterpreted in contemporary times to proscribe gay relationships. But other than those, are there others? I’m not up on my Hindu dogma, but does it hold anti-gay commandments? Buddhism is notably flexible with their provisions and restrictions. How about Confucianism? Anyone?
Dan;
How about some rightous anger towards Islam?
The psycho bastard president of Iran, has said “That they do not have gays!” .when laughed at, he asked for “The addresses of these People” . It aint just the catholics that have that market open.
about the only “religion” that has no hang ups about Queer seems to be Buddhism.
Dan;
How about some rightous anger towards Islam?
The psycho bastard president of Iran, has said “That they do not have gays!” .when laughed at, he asked for “The addresses of these People” . It aint just the catholics that have that market open.
about the only “religion” that has no hang ups about Queer seems to be Buddhism.
hey im a 24yr old lesbianmother of 3, living in cincinnati,i recently meet a 24yr old woman of the seattle area she’s soooo dam beautiful,sweet,short,honest, shit ill drink her bath water….. it was like love a first sight!! we’ve been talking n its getting pretty dam serious!!serious to the point were talking me move to seattle serious!! i love everything about this woman everything!!! what should i do LESBILOVERS
I LOVE the acronym that 2nd letter used.
I would have told CAEM this:
Celibacy isn’t going to work. All you have to do is google “priest scandal,” read “Youth Pastor Watch,” or just watch TV to learn that people who try and bottle up a sexual urge lose that fight over and over. ESPECIALLY people who are trying to be celibate (unless you get castrated. That works). Much like judo, if you don’t use the momentum of your attacker (your sex drive) to your advantage, you will be crushed. In other words, if you don’t find yourself in a mature relationship with another adult, you’ll find yourself raping children or at the very least furiously jerking off to hardcore porn all alone in a basement, probably more than a little lonely and committing a sin anyway.
Since you’re going to end up apologizing to God for sexual indiscretions one way or another, you might as well pick the ones that do the least harm to others and the most good for yourself.
“…if you don’t find yourself in a mature relationship with another adult, you’ll find yourself raping children…”
Repressed homosexuality (or heterosexuality) does not lead to pedophilia. Pedophilia is a pathological compulsion in its own right that starts at a young age. Youth pastor positions and priest positions don’t turn people into pedophiles, pedophiles go into these areas because it gives them an opportunity.
Dan,
While you allude to the changes/revisions in doctrine, and the various resulting sects, it may be helpful to specifically instruct the faithful on the history of their own religions that is all too often a inconvenient lesson. For example the First Council of Nicaea where Christians agreed upon what would become canon, which gospels to include, and which dates to party. Hell, anyone who made the mistake of reading or watching The DaVinci Code should know this.
In the realm of sects, there are plenty of gay friendly churches that do not preach or attempt to convert gays into straights. Even if it’s controversial, it’s there.
Also, this cat might not be Christian. I know it’s easy to get a hard on for Christians in America, especially as an atheist or other group commonly demonized by the Christians in America such as you deliciously dirty homos.
Maybe the kid is Sikh, or Muslim or a Jew. I suppose it doesn’t matter, but I think we should not be jumping to conclusions as to his religion.
As someone personally abused and currently embittered by psycho-sexual ritualistic child “discipline,” brought to my parents and institutions by the bible and church “authorities,” I applaud any criticism anyone can haul at Christianity.
To “Christians” who whine at criticism: bite me.
Dan, please don’t tell me Santa Claus isn’t real either, that would really ruin my day.
The comment to the religious closet-case was the most perfect advice in the history of this column! Genuinely, how DARE this young man talk about the strength he gets from his religious beliefs, and then ask a mere mortal like Dan Savage for sexual advice…honestly. Hey Closet-Case, why don’t you ask the God who got you through so much already? If your faith is that strong, you have no business asking Dan Savage, you just keep on praying for Strength from the abusive slavemaster you called “God” who you believe insists on your celibacy and refraining from sexual indulgence anyway.
And before anyone freaks out on ME and says I’m not “respecting” religions, I’m happy to inform you that I’m an ordained minister with the United Church of Canada. You can have a happy, fulfilling and exploratory sexual life and still have a spiritual/religious connection in life. You just have to be smart and discerning enough to not blindly follow some hypocritical nonsense cult like it sounds CAEM is a member of.
Rock On, Dan!
“Get over yourself, faggot.”
Sometimes the best advice really is the shortest. Much like:
“Don’t eat that.”
“Compliment her shoes.”
“Send a thank-you note.”
“Repressed homosexuality (or heterosexuality) does not lead to pedophilia. Pedophilia is a pathological compulsion in its own right that starts at a young age. Youth pastor positions and priest positions don’t turn people into pedophiles, pedophiles go into these areas because it gives them an opportunity.”
The inconvenient truth is that you’re right and partly wrong. Repressed homosexuality doesn’t make pedophiles, but most of those priests weren’t pedophiles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophili…
Lots of male adults lust after adolescents, whether male or female ones, whether they are straight or gay. I DO believe that being gay and tortured may make you choose priesthood and then the position and opportunity might predispose you to young, physically mature males. If you’re a wreck a childlike but physically mature person is easier to relate to. Going into the priesthood just to bang some kids seems an awful lot of work and annoyance!
Get over yourself, Urleen!!!
Great column, Dan! You ROCK!!
actually, I assume the guy from “Clever Acronyms Escape Me” is Mormon, not Catholic. While Catholicism hasn’t totally embraced homosexuality, the focus on the “horrible fates too awful to mention” seems to be coming from a non-Catholic, Mormon-y source. If he were Catholic, he’d mainly be focusing on feeling guilty. . .
-Catholic, so I can say this
I’m hoping that HOMO doesn’t always think that being gay means not having any grandkids – especially as he’s writing in to a column by a writer who has written so candidly about being a gay parent.
If it’s just controlling his hormonal urges, why not recommend Vitex (aka chaste berry)? Investigate it first, consult your physician first, etc… but maybe not being so pent up all the time could help the guy make more objective and rational choices.
And to answer the inevitable question, I do not support the propagation of ridiculous religious dogma. Religion is still just what it has always been…. a tool to provide order and structure for the masses. It scares the hell out of me to think what the world would be like if all of a sudden people everywhere realized that there were no cosmic consequences for their decisions and subsequent actions. I also don’t want to destroy religion because human nature makes that impossible… just look at how well that worked in Communist Russia. I would rather change their views to incorporate more compassionate and rational values.
I don’t mean to go off on a rant here… oh wait..
Pray Away,
You are doing the right thing!- Anyone intelligent will realize that everyone and everything has to come from some kind of creator! This is First place common sense. Wisdom (Basically the good fear of God) is a gift from God-not given to everyone-which prones you to seek that higher advice for a life lived to the fullest- a life well-lived..not just getting by, but with all God’s protection(provision), blessing and True prosperity (The kind that doesn’t end suddenly-for some unknown reason).You seem to be seeking so if you have Wisdom -be Proud of it. We know that sooner or later all scorners will be cowering for direction-from God-and that there’s always that moment in their life when they all secretly pray —God—Help ME!!!!!!–The good thing is that he does….So be Encouraged, Be strong and of a Good Courage-as the Bible says—For in Due season you Will have your reward!!!! A Good Reward!!!!! Lose the Bad Fear, Keep the Fear of God (Wisdom), Exhert yourself in Excellence (not perfection!) in the good things you love and are good at –GO after your dreams-including celebrating God in Church on Sunday!- Show him –You are the man who wants to get his approval!!!–and guess what?–You will—“He will chase you to bless you ” !!!! “He will order his angels to take charge of you” He will keep you! Sometimes you will feel that you are getting near the perfect girl– and that will fizz out–but don’t be frustrated!–Remember, You’re only getting nearer!–Keep pressing on ” toward the mark” just like everything else in your life, –and while you are so busy enjoying yourself — in Doing all the right things–all that Good energy will have to attract Good and The Designated one WIll APPEAR!!!!! Don’t forget that awesome undertakings in history are the ones that made history–Such as King James–the man who opposed all –had the courage and strength by God to order that a version of the Bible (closer to the original Hebrew/Aramaic) be made in English from the Geneva translation (before the time Rome translated it into Latin-and some of its plain and simple meaning be lost in complicated translation… )He wanted every common man to be able to have his own Bible to study for himself… Because of this Rome chased him around, trying to kill him and any others who would separate from their religion. Thus, he sent the pilgrims on the Mayflower to colonize America so that simple, uncomplex Christianity would not be persecuted, but so that it could move on–And this is why our country was, in the beginning, the most blessed nation the world has ever known–BUt by the very liberty that we extended to the world, sadly, our own “American Christianity has become overshadowed by new religions practiced” even allowing Roman religions to be practiced-the very religion we as Americans once ran from in England…(read the Mayflower Compact) So if you fall on your way–take a moment–then get back up again!— Straighten yourself up–“lift up your head”–and get back at it again!–WHo knows what Awesome things God has in store for you!!–WHen you have a great attitude like the one you have!–Praying for you and signing off for now!
@158: Uriel – I intended no slight, please excuse me: Same Internet Religion Argument points awarded to Uriel, plus 1 bonus point of Internet Whining Proficiency. Done. Also Kudos for the comment about the nature of the sin of Sloth; well done.
and pcelise : There are a few crumbs of wisdom in yer post, but the moldy bread surrounding it is toxic;
you are bragging about/lovin on King James? And his UK-politics-of-the-time-centric PR publishing scam? Seriously?
King ‘I’m such a huge fan of the occult I hired Bill fawking Shakespeare to write about witches, Hecate, ghosts and fortune telling and then once the people were glassyeyed over the famous Scottish play, went on to sponsor his entire sex/violence-heavy theatre career with my taxing of the poor peasantry’ James? King ‘I claim two thrones, Scotland AND england, nay THREE: add ireland, because that’s how I roll – big-balled and not trying to make up for any size issues elsewhere, yup, yessiree, trust me.’ James? King ‘the translators I hired put in little word games and jokes into the bible- like the 42nd psalm just as one example in a thousand- and I was okay with that because I play both sides if you know what I mean’ James? King ‘Inbred? what’s inbred?’ James? King ‘I wrote the book titled DAEMONOLOGIE, – on how to burn innocent people at the stake for witchcraft ‘, James? King ‘ I inspired GUY FAWKING FAWKES & (the terrorism known as the gunpowder plot) because I was hated SO’ James?
Yeah, ok.
If you want to revere the Paris Hilton of monarchs, the Carrot-Top of Theology literature, The Joan Rivers of duplicity, then go right ahead and have fun with that.
But methinks your theology needs some QC, Elise. Start by looking up the Hampton Court Conference and the Popish Recusants Act.
And yes, I’m a real reverend, an actual ordained minister, and not one of those mere cheap online knockoffs: I live good, I bring good works to the world, and my conversations with the Great Divine have yielded no evidence that King Jimmie the 6th of Scotland nor the HCC had any business touching the revelations in the Hebrew Bible. Their translation was foremost designed to show off English as a language, promote the pope-hating Church of England and -to a reduced extent- the Puritans (who primarily made up the HCC), and re-inforce the divine right of kings (Jimmie especially) to rule : not to bring more good to the world.
No thanks. Find god in your heart, not in a book.
132 said: “There is no God?? I think you are an idiot to state something you could not and do not know. I believe there most certainly is a God.”
==============================
Holy Toledo Shomondo! Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you put those two sentences back to back? You call Dan an idiot for stating an opinion about something that is not provable, then you proclaim with certainty there is a God, which you could not possibly know for sure.
In my book that’s being a hypocrite. I’ll take back my harsh words if you admit you are an idiot, or you admit Dan is not an idiot. Either one is fine by me.
@122 & @124: Right on, wayne and Sunshine! I’m a longtime Dan-fan, too!
And THANK YOU, solid15, for calling the long-winded Shomondo on his / her hypocritical bullshit.
King James was still human, but this just proves that even in all our imperfect humanity-if we at least try to lean towards God’s higher understanding-and have the right attitude–God Still Used King James== Word!God can use anyone or anything he wants to.. NO one is imperfect to God.
Dear Pray Away
This will set you free:
Matthew 23:9
1 Timothy 4:2-3
Psalms 115:4-8–GOd loves you -his ultimate creation-Man. He has a wonderful mate for you to enjoy all your life with-as seen in all the pattern of life and creation..(A woman!) He thinks you smarter than for you to believe you can talk to wood or metal and think that it will hear you, and yes you can enjoy a wonderful carne asada with your Girl too!
Whats the difference between Faith and Religion???
Faith is beliving in God, Religion is man made bullshit!
As someone who is extremely catholic with a gay godfather and who worked to try to keep ref 71 off our ballots I’m a little offended that you just assume the closeted gay kid is catholic. Its much more probable that the kid is mormon or crazy evangelical.
personally, I believe that the campaign against inequality in the sex battles of gay rights and sloggers the world over starts somewhere in the intollerance of slang useage and VERY HIGH ADVERTISING BILLS AND DISPROPORTIOATE WAGE PACKAGING!!!
you see schismatics…. houston has been calling and the Weekly has the answer.
p.s., don’t forget to change your name savage.
CAEM: I was raised in a strict religious household, and given only two options: 1) “EXACTLY THIS, ALL THE TIME” (i.e., fundamentalist Christian idea of perfection), or 2) “ETERNAL DAMNATION.”
Around 16, I realized that I could never live up to every last doctrine preached to me (esp the ones I had issues with, for ethical reasons) – Much less expect to get up early every Sunday and go to church 3 times a week, every week, rain or shine, unless I had an actual fever, til the day I died.
So I walked away, and became a serious brat: selfish, hedonistic, thoughtless, even a bit cruel when I felt like it…And why not? I was going to Hell anyway, right?
It took me years to decide that it’s possible to be a Good person (in my case still a hedonist, and a nightowl;) — without being Religious.
Am I going to hell? Who knows? I’m sure my family thinks so (I avoid the topic, to avoid upsetting them.) And personally, I don’t worry about it anymore – I no longer believe in a physical Hell. (Honestly: given enough time, logic/reason DO win out over childhood conditioning…and the guilt WILL go away.)
I’m not gay, for what it’s worth…I’m a straight girl. Tho the religion/cult I was raised in doesn’t allow for homosexuality, either.
I’m just saying that if it’s important – truly important – to you to be a Good Person…then maybe spend some time thinking about what makes a person “Good?”
You’re already aware you won’t be able to be yourself, while sticking to the party line you’re being fed…otherwise you wouldn’t be seriously considering an unnatural life of celibacy and deprivation. (Which almost no one can maintain for life.)
Please. You’ll spare yourself years of being a bitter jerk, and all the guilt that comes from that.
It’s not easy. I know. I wish you the best of luck in finding yourself.
(ps – while I agree with Dan, here, YOU don’t have to. Why must there only be ONE way? Find your own way…Surely a benevolent Creator, who gave you a mind of your own, would expect nothing less?)
Sorry to y’all for breaking the cozy little consensus, but I think Dan completely dropped the ball and let his own issues get in the way of responding to someone who came to him for help.
To Dan: Congratulations on coming out of the closet. I had wondered on and off whether you were “this way” for a while, but had not seen you show your true colors until now. At last, you have proudly shown yourself to be a bitter, bigoted anti-religionist hypocrite.
Your “God = the Blue Fairy” remark in last week’s column was a big confirmation, but your real coming-out party happened about a month ago when you replied to a young man who is struggling with his deeply-held desire to live chastely for religious reasons.
Dan, this kid came to you warily but with hope, looking for the help he was told only you could give him, on how to live his sexuality in the way he chooses to. He is making a countercultural choice not to let his sexual desire run his life and define his character, and instead to live without genital contact. His choice is different (wayyyyyy different) from your own conventional viewpoint, that one’s sexual proclivities define him and that life cannot be happy without indulging them. You might have noted your differences and still given him support, access to resources, the names of groups who affirm their sexual orientation but try to live it out chastely. You might have tapped into your vast knowledge about having sex, and looked for some tips on what to do if a person chooses not to. You might have at least treated the kid with respect and dignity.
Instead you slammed into him with all the vindictive vitriol you feel towards religion, and let him be your whipping boy in place of all those horrible people who dare to disagree with you about what constitutes immorality. You mocked his choices and ridiculed his beliefs. You feigned an openness to pro-gay Christianity, then insultingly declared God dead (on the authority of John Lennon). You were anything BUT “GGG” when it came to responding to his situation; instead you insisted on reframing his problem to suit your values.
God doesn’t hate fags, Dan. But Jesus got pretty pissed-off at bigots and hypocrites. Congrats on having the courage to show yourself to be one. Sign me
Sick of Hearing Anti-Religious Propaganda.
PS When sex and religion are pitted against each other, “Religion always loses,” you said. “Always.” Oh really? So, when religion tells a husband or wife not to fuck the neighbor, religion loses? When religion tells someone to reign in that mix of lust and rage that can end in rape and violence, religion loses? When religion tells a person to save their sexual expression as the ultimate form of intimately giving oneself to another, to be given only to the man or woman to whom they give their whole selves for the rest of their life in marriage, religion loses? Always? There have been no priests, nuns, monks, brothers, or consecrated lay people – no single people trying to live chastely in accordance with God’s desire as they understand it, who have lived full and happy lives? No one has ever managed to avoid fucking their brains out before being married? Ever?
Or could it be that you are limiting your frame of reference to your own experience, among your own circle of friends, in your own tiny uber-hedonistic subculture, with your like-minded colleagues who all have made the same decision to drink the Freudian-Flavored Kool-Aid that says no life has meaning without genital sex, and they (if you’ll pardon the Biblical reference) “seek to justify themselves”?
@186, you might want to actually try reading the comment you respond to before launching into a multi-paragraph tirade.
First, your suggestion that this kid is expected to be celibate for no other reason than he was born into a bigoted, homophobic cult is beyond idiotic. By that logic a Muslim woman is expected to just bend over and take it if her husband decides, without her consent, to take on more wives? This kid didn’t say he can’t have “genital contact”, he said he has to have no romantic contact with anyone, ever, just because of an accident of being born into the wrong religion. He isn’t choosing to “live his sexuality”, he’s choosing to reject it.
Dan wasn’t making this kid a “whipping boy”, he was telling CAEM to try and have it all, religion and sex, instead of having to settle for one for no good reason at all. As for “insultingly declaring God dead”, you do understand the concept of a joke, right? I mean, you clearly have no sense of humor, but you do know what it is.
As for sex vs. religion. Dan was referring to it in the context of self-denial of all sexual urges (including auto-erotic), not just “genital contact”. For the record, people make the decisions regarding rape, infidelity and abstinence based on personal feelings, beliefs and fear of potentially adverse consequences. Not solely based on petrifying fear of the invisible kid in the sky with a magnifying glass burning them into a cinder.
The only person seeking to “justify themselves” her is you. If you want someone to tell you you’re right, seek a less open minded, audience. I hear Anne Coulter is always listening.
Pandorum is everywhere!
Santorum is everywhere!