You were recommended to me by
an acquaintance familiar with your column and podcast. I am a
20-year-old male, and as such have certain desires that almost all
20-year-old males have (desires of a sexual nature). However, I am
deeply religious. Religion has been for me a source of strength in my
times of weakness, a rock in the times of storm, and above all a home
to return to when I have lost my path. In the teachings of my
particular religion, to indulge the particular desires I am
experiencing will condemn me to fates too grotesque to mention. I am
rational enough to realize that there is no way that I can “pray away”
these desires. My question is this: How does one prepare for a life of
celibacy and solitude (as that is what is required of me to remain a
member of this particular faith)? Based on what my friend has told me,
I know you have little respect for religious practices and beliefs.
However, these desires are not exactly something I can talk about with
other members of my spiritual community. And while I am currently
seeking counseling related to other issues, I was wondering what a
so-called expert on sex and sexuality would have to say.
Clever Acronyms Escape Me
Get over yourself, faggot.
If it’s possible for you to act on your
unnamed-but-easily-identified desires in an ethical manner—if you
desire to do whatever it is you desire to do with consenting adults who
desire to take their turn doing it to you—this so-called expert
on sexuality thinks you should crawl down off that cross and find
yourself a boyfriend already. (“Pray away” the gay? I’m guessing you’re
Christian, probably Catholic.) And if you experience a moment’s anxiety
the first time you stick your ass in the air—pull the Jesus stick
out first!—just remind yourself that things have been crawling on
top of each other and madly humping away for 850 million years.
Sex came first, then humanity (200,000ish years ago), then religion
came along tens of thousands of years after that. Which may explain why
religion, when pitted against sex (really old) and human nature (pretty
old), always loses. Always.
If you’re on the cross, CAEM, it’s because
you put yourself up there. Which means you’re not some poor mortal
trapped between a cosmic rock and an existential hard place; you’re
just another closeted cocksucker with a martyr complex.
Look, kiddo, you get one life, one chance at
happiness. If it gives you a spiritual semi to fantasize about a God
who created you gay but forbids you to act on your emotional and sexual
attraction to men, knock your damn self out. But you can have a
boyfriend and Jesus, too—look at the pope—you just have to
do what people have been doing since the first terrified idiot invented
the first bullshit religion: improvise. Find yourself a
brand-new religion or sect, or jettison the bits of your current faith
that don’t work for you. If you know anything about the history of
Christianity—and it sounds like you don’t—then you know
that the revisions began before the body was cold. No reason to stop
now.
And finally, CAEM, there is no God—you
do realize that, right? No hell below us, above us only sky, etc.
I’m an only child, male, born
to a single mom. I’m about to turn 21, and I’ve been with a great guy
for over a year. I may be in love. We both have steady jobs, and we
want to move in together. He came out to his parents after we started
dating, and now I think it’s my turn. Problem is, I don’t know how to
break it to my mother. She’s a tiny Mexican woman who isn’t afraid of
smacking me. I’m afraid to tell her. She always talks bad about the gay
lifestyle because she considers herself Christian, although not the
churchgoing kind. When and how do I break the news that she’s not
getting grandkids from me?
Her Only Male Offspring
Your mom is my favorite kind of “Christian.”
She’s not the “churchgoing kind,” as that would require some personal
sacrifice on her part (of her Sunday mornings, at least). And she
certainly didn’t let her faith interfere with her sex life (I’m
assuming your conception was something short of immaculate*). But when
it comes to other people’s lives, when it comes to your sexuality and mine, HOMO, then her Christian values kick into
high gear. How convenient.
Okay, HOMO, lots of us have come out to
hostile moms and dads and watched in awe as they morphed into the
loving, supportive parents we didn’t know they were capable of being.
For some parents the process is quick, for others it’s slow, but it
can’t start until you come out.
Now here’s when you come out: The sooner the
better—but don’t come out to your mother while she has the power
to harm you, i.e., if you’re dependent on her for a place to live or if
she’s paying for your education. And here’s how: by U.S. mail. Don’t
give your mother the chance to smack you. Write her a letter, include
the contact info for the PFLAG chapter in your area, and tell her
you’ll discuss this with her after she attends a meeting, not
before.
Finally, when I came out to my mother, the
first thing out of her mouth was, “I don’t ever want to meet any
boyfriends.” She said the word “boyfriend” like it had been
dipped in shit. On her deathbed, my mother told me to tell my boyfriend
that she loved him (“like a daughter”). My mom came around, HOMO, and
so can yours. But not until you tell her.
My husband and I got married
recently. His first pick for best man was his older brother, “St.
Paul,” a seminary student studying to become a priest. When my husband
asked, he started crying and said he had hoped my husband would return
to the church. We are both liberal ex-Catholics. For a wedding gift,
Paul gave us a book called Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of
the Body, 700 pages of dogma by JP2. In the five years I’ve known him,
he has rarely said more than one sentence to me, yet he speaks boldly
in favor of the church’s most conservative doctrines at family
gatherings. How much of his bullshit do I have to deal with? I’m a huge
fan of yours, and I know that you’ve had some issues reconciling your
own life with loved ones within the Catholic Church. Your advice would
be appreciated.
The Schismatic
Man… so intolerant.
I’m talking about you, TS, not your
brother-in-law. Don’t get me wrong: Your brother-in-law sounds like
total douchedrizzle. But he has a right to his opinions and a right to
express them. You have a right to your opinions, too, of course, and
just as much a right to express them. When St. Paul goes off on
premarital sex or the ordination of women or the gays and their Prada
loafers, smile and tell him he’s full of shit. You don’t see him too
often, right? Tolerate his bullshit—that’s what family
does—and count your blessings.
And don’t complain about every word that
comes out of his mouth and then gripe about how little he has to
say to you.
* Note to Bill Donohue: Yes, I’ve confused
the virgin birth with the Immaculate Conception. So sue me,
motherfucker.
Always a delight to read your column.”Closeted cocksucker with a martyr complex”. Well said, Dan -I’m going to be quoting you on that one!
CAEM — I don’t know if you’re going to read the letters, or read this far, but my advice would be to write to Cary Tennis at Salon.com. I think you might find a more thoughtful, reasoned answer to your dilemma.
I also suspect Cary Tennis will ultimately come to the same conclusion — that as long as what you want to do involves consenting adults, you’re probably in the wrong religion. And I think maybe you have that suspicion too, which is why you’re writing to advice columnists.
I don’t think Dan’s advice is bad, just lacking in sympathy.
Well, holy effin’ wow. jab2009, Martychan and kim in portland thank you for the accolades.
kim in portland, you’re absolutely correct. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is stated to be the one unforgivable sin, which is only commonly interpreted to be doubt or denial of Jesus as the son of God. Personally, I find the nature of such blasphemy to be terribly obtuse, not necessarily being denial or doubt of the Christ, certainly not necessarily meaning Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.
Interestingly, when I was a young adult I (at recommendation by religious friends) prayed and begged the Christ to enter my soul and bring me understanding. The epiphany I gained that night was, rather, there are an infinite number of points between fundamental Christianity and hard atheism (thought it might also have been there are an infinite number of possible beliefs other than fundamental Christianity and hard atheism). While I did not find Jesus in the evangelical sense, it did put me on my present spiritual path, and as far as I’m concerned have God’s blessing to walk it.
Martychan I’ve also noticed the personal nature of the relationship between God and the individual, at least in Protestant denominations of Christianity. This implies a personal responsibility to understand and interpret scripture, contrast to blindly allowing a given minister or church to tell you what to think. (Doing so is the traditional definition of sloth, incidentally.) Hence those who choose to justify their bigoted viewpoints by the bible are personally responsible for their intolerance. Catholicism sidesteps this issue by re-institutionalizing prayer as a tradition of the Church, so they get to place blame of their intolerance on the head of the Pope.
jab2009, I agree, and try to live by the same precept that the best we do is to convey comprehension of our positions; it’s then respectful to let those you’ve done so decide for themselves. I don’t always succeed (in my efforts to adhere).
@ #26. Ok, so I agree there are more Protestants than Catholics. But my irony meter just red-lined at your claim that Protestants are somehow above the absurdity of the immaculate conception. Aren’t most fundamentalists who believe a literal interpretation of Genesis identified as Protestant????
Uriel-238,
I’m glad you found your path. We have much in common, faith wise.
Martychan,
Thank for your kind words of encouragment.
Eh, there’s a difference between disagreeing with a person’s views, and disagreeing like a smug asshole. I understand that part of your charm is from your blunt nature, but you don’t need to be so blatantly offensive and disrespectful to the people who are COMING TO YOU FOR HELP. All you’ve done here is, frankly, make an ass of yourself and entertain the readers who found your relentless belittling funny. Sure, the advice is there, but who the hell would listen to it after being reamed into like that? Especially the first letter! And again, I get the whole tough love thing, hell, I even agree with half of what you said that wasn’t terribly nice, but some of it was just too over the top (Insulting a guy’s mother? I’m sure he not so stupid as to notice some of his mother’s hypocrisies, she was still the woman to nurture and raise him. The last response was by far my favorite though, true to yourself, but the advice was there without completely belittling the person or their life/lifestyle). The first kid especially was, I’m sure, hoping for some remotely consoling advice from someone who’s been through similar things, hell, the first line and overall tone was very appropriate. However, I don’t think he expected the shock of reality to be followed by an anti religious rant from an angry man who’s clearly not in the mood to help. Reassuring him that his whole upbringing is a lie was not necessary.
Hey #54 (and others)….
Tolerance of religion means not shutting down the churches in the neighborhood and letting them go about their inane business.
Criticizing them for mental terrorism is not intolerance. Its a predictable form of discourse coming from those who find the religious message nonsense.
If the religious folks kept their views out of public discourse, then railing against them publicly would be impolite.
However, since religions want both freedom and a public face, what they also must accept is people calling them on their bullshit.
that is all
I don’t know what Dan means by “the revisions began before the body was cold”, but then I don’t know what the fuck a podcast is either, so I guess I’m just an ignorant top who craves mouth & ass.
And, isn’t False Hymen a Joan Jett song?
Ah, it’s so refreshing to hear a voice boldly encouraging people to overcome the guilt/manipulation religion uses on people to control their sex lives.
awesome column dan!
i love the first response… though I have to disagree – there DEFINITELY is no god (as in, i agree but more vociferously)
I too originally thought Dan might have too quickly jumped to the conclusion that CAEM is gay. However, after rereading his letter I’m in total agreement that he is gay. He never references his desire is for a female, actually he avoids acknowledgment of the sex he desires he simply and accurately states that most 20 year old have desires of a sexual nature. Furthermore he indicates that he cannot discuss this with members of his faith – if his desires are of a hetrosexual nature than he most certainly could discuss it with any of his peers. He also asks “How does one prepare for a life of celibacy and solitude?” which, unless he was to become a priest or similar, would be totally unnecessary unless he was speaking of avoiding homosexual activity. And, even if the desires are hetrosexual then why in the world would he ever consider a celibate life when every religion I’ve ever heard of accept, condons and encourages marriage between a man and a woman.
I too think Dan was a bit harsh (but when isn’t Dan a bit harsh?) but I do think he was totally correct in assuming the guy is gay and his advice was right on!
I’m CAEM’s gay friend. Yes, this closet religious 20 yo male has a very close openly gay friend. We met when I was in College and he was a freshman. As a senior, I picked him up because he was a sexy, young kid I thought I could have fun with… and I have, more than once. He just doesn’t talk about it, forgets for 3 months and then comes back to me.
Having read through all the previous comments from Christian and Athiest alike, I felt that I should commend both sides for presenting themselves so eloquently.
I was born into the Christian faith and followed it until roughly the age of eight, when my pastor retired from his duties. When he left, I found that the spark of my faith had severely diminished, and over the following years, I moved further and further away from God in the Christian sense and began to explore other faiths and belief systems, searching for that spark again.
Now, seventeen years later, I proudly call myself Christian once more, but I’ve come back to my faith armed with insight that I would never have gained had I not turned my back on God for so many years and gone off to learn on my own. While I may be quite unconventional in my beliefs, I will agree with every other Christian that has posted here and say that God’s message is about love for both yourself and your fellow man – if you show those around you love, acceptance and understanding and you keep the Lord in your heart with all that you do, then I seriously doubt He has any issues with your particular methods. After all, it’s the message that matters.
That said – Great column as always, Dan. Can’t wait for next week! 🙂
Great column, Dan! And I just listened to your newest podcast this week and I have to say, it was the best one in ages! I was laughing for hours!
@30
” And you have no more proof that there is no God than I do that there is. It’s an opinion based on faith or the lack thereof.”
The inability to see, hear, smell, detect using instrumentation, or mathematically extrapolate any gods is actually quite a lot of evidence that there is no such thing. Proof? No, it’s impossible to prove that something doesn’t exist, because new evidence could always come to light. But until you can provide that evidence, it is ONLY rational to not believe in the undetectable thing.
The only evidence that we have of gods is via the people who “just know in their hearts”, and, funny thing, all of these people who have access to Ultimate Truth via their deeply personal faith. . . well. . . they believe different things. Different gods, different “truths”. So, at least most of these people with their deeply-held and conflicting convictions have to be wrong. You’re sure about Jesus, some other guy on the other side of the planet is sure about Mohammed, and I am laughing at you both.
Let me say, I don’t think that rational is the only way to be. Religious people like to claim that atheism is my religion, or that science is my religion. No, that’s not true. I’m an atheist and a scientist because rationality leads you there. Rationality is my religion. My only justification for it is via more rationality, which is circular reasoning.
If people are happily irrational, I’m cool with that. Whatever peanut butters your jelly, man. If you think 2+2 might be 6 tomorrow and 38 the day after that, I don’t fucking care. I just want religious people to stop CLAIMING that they are as rational as the rest of us. You can’t have it both ways.
We have one person’s assertion he’s slept with CAEM and that he’s gay–and CAEM speaks about indulging himself in the future tense, not the past. If he were worried sex doomed him he’d feel doomed eternally not doomed to loneliness. Other than that, I fail to see why he couldn’t like only kids or dogs. He’s most probably gay, but no smoking gun, right?
Jab2009, you wrote, “He mourns the loss of a soul if one dies before reconciliation.” Seems to imply a chance was missed, and permanent harm done. Soul was LOST. So if you are “unlucky” enough to die on an off day, disfavoring God, you’re LOST. If you were reconciled that day, you get eternal bliss. Would not a human who failed to forgive a loved spouse who died before an apology could be made be viewed as rather nasty? And I say “unlucky” because God could intervene in your fortunes until the day you were going to reconcile.
Over and over, the issue is this: why believe in something supernatural when there are so many better explanations, no evidence, and the counter position that the certainty of faith, experienced currently and throughout time, has been stupendously wrong over and over even in the opinion of the devout? What does the born again think of the certainty of the 911 bombers? They were wrong, so why trust their own unsupported faith? The one that say they’ll be saved because they belong to the right faith–lucky that they were born somewhere it was taught, right?
dan- 850 million years is wrong. as a geologist i know that the beginning of cellular life (with a fossilizable, traceable cell wall or exoskeleton) marks the beginning of the Cambrian period, which began 542.2 Ma (million years ago). While there was certainly life before this time, it was rudimentary and did not posses the mechanisms for sexual reproduction. The odds are against sexual reproduction until later into middle and upper Cambrian.
that being said, that fag needs to get the jesus stick out of his ass.
dan- 850 million years is wrong. as a geologist i know that the beginning of cellular life (with a fossilizable, traceable cell wall or exoskeleton) marks the beginning of the Cambrian period, which began 542.2 Ma (million years ago). While there was certainly life before this time, it was rudimentary and did not posses the mechanisms for sexual reproduction. The odds are against sexual reproduction until later into middle and upper Cambrian.
that being said, that fag needs to get the jesus stick out of his ass.
@70:
Yeah, IMAGINARY unconditional love.
For the dickwad who hyperventiled, “What if CAEM is a pedophile?”
Dan clearly stated that CAEM should act on his desires ONLY if they’re ethical and with someone who also desires the same thing.
But nice homophobic slur, throwing in the “dog” and “disgusting” to boot.
I agree that Dan’s response to CAEM’s letter was a bit harsh, but then that’s the risk you take asking Dan for his opinion.
Yes, CAEM is gay (straights don’t require a life of celibacy). His “certain desires that almost all 20-year-old males have” sentence was just not clearly written, and refers to sexual urges.
That letter could have come from me 20 years ago. I was a tight-ass christian boy who secretly prided himself in being better than everyone else. But once I admitted to myself that I was gay (at age 28) I went thru a rough spell of everything I believed being questioned, and came out the other side only a little worse for wear. I still question my religious beliefs but haven’t thrown it all out.
To anyone who thinks Dan’s comments are harsh, I have to ask, have you been hiding under a rock for 17 years, or is this just the first time you’ve read his column? He’s always harsh, acerbic, and more often than not, downright nasty and vicious. But mostly right. What’s weird is, if you meet him in person, as I did at a book signing, he’s the exact opposite: warm, apologetic, self-effacing. I barely recognized him! The perpetual Libra, always striving for balance; that’s our dude Dan!
Keep in mind, folks, it’s completely possible to have sex without destroying or rupturing the hymen. I knew a girl whose hymen didn’t rupture until her third lover. Hymen does not equal virginity, although nutso religious freakwads will insist so.
To the person who thinks Dan hates women:
I don’t see that. I’m a woman and I’ve been reading his column religiously for 11 years.
He yells at everyone – men, women, intersex, black, white, gay, straight, bi, poly, mono, married, single, divorced.
I’ve also never seen him miss the mark. I’ve seen him stumped, but he always admits this and asks others for help in advising his querent.
>> My husband and I got married recently. <<
at first i thought this statement was needlessly obvious. then i quickly remembered it was dan’s column, and not dr. laura’s.
* TRIVIA NOTE! Oxford Dictionary definition of small-c “catholic” (what the word meant BEFORE the Church of Rome did its thing): all-embracing; of wide sympathies or interests; of interest or use to all, universal.
hmmm….
Yes, and after having learned this a few years ago I found it quite amusing to use the phrase “catholic community of Catholics” in a final exam essay in my freshman year Intro to Religion class, when speaking of “all the Catholics in the world.”
I’m with @2—-Dan, you made my week, too!!!
Go, Dan, go!!!!
I think Dan went way to easy on this moron.
Look, CAEM, your god and everything you think is holy results from an effective marketing scheme made by a bunch of perverted old men who want to take your money, control your life, and rape your children. Literally.
Stupid beliefs like yours are why God made hashish and psilocybin and instructed us to use them in Genesis. Personally, I recommend going camping, getting up before the sun, and taking a bunch of mushrooms. Then sit by a river smoking hashish hashish while the sun rise and talk directly with god about your problem.
I think Dan went way to easy on this moron.
Look, CAEM, your god and everything you think is holy results from an effective marketing scheme made by a bunch of perverted old men who want to take your money, control your life, and rape your children. Literally.
Stupid beliefs like yours are why God made hashish and psilocybin and instructed us to use them in Genesis. Personally, I recommend going camping, getting up before the sun, and taking a bunch of mushrooms. Then sit by a river smoking hashish while the sun comes into view as the earth spins around it. As each second stretches into a blissful infinity filled with colors and light that look like music sounds, you can talk directly with God about your problem. It’s that easy.
CAEM: look into More Light churches (that may just be a Presbyterian thing, but other denominations may have similar organizations/labels/groupings)…
And to everyone who seems to have a hate-on about religious people? Yes, I know some Christians are self-righteous assholes who try to shove things down your throat (and not in a fun way), but others (like, say, my mom, who’s been a deacon at her church) actually are reasonable, sane, intelligent people who do their best to do good in the world and quite frankly couldn’t care *less* about what one consenting adult does with another consenting adult (barring cheating)…
And while, yes, I cannot prove that there is a higher power… you also can’t prove that there *isn’t* one, and it is not unreasonable to surmise that the various somewhat improbable events that led to us being here were nudged along by some kind of mind… and you also cannot prove that there is nothing of ourselves that continues after death. Perfectly reasonable of you to live your life under the assumption that there isn’t, but it’s also perfectly reasonable (provided you’re not a fanatic about it) to live under the assumption that there *is* something that will Go On.
CAEM doesn’t claim specifically to have a god-centered religion ( iread it and thought of non-christian religions only), so Dan’s anti-catholic/anti-evangeticals rant complete with ‘god doesn’t exists’? I call BS. Bad form, old man.
I was tempted to also call BS on assuming CAEM is gay, but the ‘celibacy/solitude’ line lends you cred.
CAEM: you’re an asshat; you can’t discuss spiritual salvation with anyone, ANYONE, from your spiritual community?
Time to look for a new spiritual community for one thing: if they can’t counsel something this, and yet hundreds of other churches can, you are in the wrong org for your soul’s needs. Jump ship and find the one that matches your needs better.
There is no God?? I think you are an idiot to state something you could not and do not know. I believe there most certainly is a God. Your the type who if you cant see it you dont believe it. Your an arrogant, arrogant man. You cant see air, but you know it’s there right? Stick to the witty comments on sex, thats your forte. Dont go beyond your mental capacity.
I think Dan sometimes edits letters to give us the gist in less space, which sometimes results in an appearance that he’s assumed something (CAEM is gay) that we don’t see in the letter.
If CAEM’s relgion is such a “rock” etc. then why is he writing to Dan for advice?
#132 – turn your words around. You cannot and do not know for sure there’s a God. If you can have your opinion, then don’t call others “idiots” for holding other opinions. Please do not confuse “believe” (faith) with “know” (have evidence). Those of us who find rationality to be evidence of mental capacity question YOUR beliefs, trust me.
Dan I heard you on “This American Life” speaking about your occasional Catholic Relapses. That being said, you could have been a little less harsh and expressed your opinion without being quite so harsh. I read your column because you give interesting and insightful advice. You might be 100% correct, but you came off as mean spirited and arrogant.
# 133 I called him an idiot for a specific reason. He stated as if his view is based in fact there is no God. In my humble opinion, that is an idiotic statement to make being that he cannot prove the statement. I find it irrational aka idiotic to state something as fact that cannot be proved one way or the other. Faith is the belief in things unseen. Have a blessed day!
I believe that CAEM is gay, and here are my reasons. First, he writes to Dan of all people. He knows Dan is gay and he knows Dan is anti-religious. If he were straight, I’m assuming he would right to someone else. There would have to be something they have in common in order for him to seek advice from him. I don’t go asking my straight guy friends for advice on sexuality or lesbian friends, it will be my gay or straight girl friends, and vice versa.
Secondly, just because he says he’s thinking thoughts 20 year old men usually think, does not necessarily mean what it’s meant to mean. He could be going off the fact that most people have homosexual thoughts or fantasies whether they mean to or not. We know that if it was regarding sleeping with women, he would have been more likely than not to find a tactful way to say it, as with masturbation (besides, I don’t think there is eternal damnation for jacking off, you’re just not supposed to, nor premartial sex). This is something this guy is ashamed and embarassed of, being gay is something a lot of religious people believe is a sin that will lead to burning in hell.
Or, he could have made that statement to justify his own thoughts by saying it’s common for guys to think, or he could have purposefully added that to confuse readers.
I do feel the advice was a bit harsh, but sometimes you have to be harsh to get the point across. It can shock someone into waking the hell up and learning to live their life while they have the chance instead of sitting around being miserable.
But that’s just my thoughts.
Person who was freaked out by those who think CAEM may have kid or animal urges: it’s not homophobic to think that. Those are just three things people are conflicted about / socially censured. It doesn’t equate them to hypothesize he might have 1 of the 3. Dan fields questions on all of them.
ROTFL at: “There is no God?? I think you are an idiot to state something you could not and do not know. I believe there most certainly is a God. Your the type who if you cant see it you dont believe it… You cant see air, but you know it’s there right?”
Listen, it’s possible that God is just silent and watching, but its possible Papa Smurf is a spirit as well. Thoughtful hardcore atheists like Dawkins will admit they can’t rule out God, but emphasize the the evidence is FAR on the “no God” side. The ONLY stuff (I know of–educate me?) on the “yes God” side is the convenient hospitality of earth and characteristics of the universe–but if it were any other way, we wouldn’t be here wondering. And to compare God to air? Seriously? You are aware that air can be felt, weighed, analyzed, partly combusted, liquified, vaporized, humidified, etc, right? Whereas for God, we just have the “everyone is wrong but me” attitude of hundreds of religions. C’mon.
In brief, we may not be able to know “for sure” but we certainly can be confidant that the weight of evidence is far to the “no God” side, just like I’m reasonably sure if I drop my keys they will accelerate toward the center of the earth. Don’t imply “We’re not sure” is a coin toss.
Wow, I see I got the Dan Anti-God squad in a lather LOL. Look, you can pontificate all your theories on why there is no God til your blue in the face. So Anti-God squad member(s) we will just have to agree to disagree. For me to argue with ones who are set in thought is pointless for me to do. I know God is real to me based on where I am in life and the things that have happened for me to be at this point (Good Place). If you think when you die you just become worm food OK! But the soul of you moves on is what I believe. There are many different paths to the same destination. Maybe your non-belief is the path your supposed to travel, I have no clue that is far above my pay grade. As I stated, Faith is the belief in things unseen! You can logic God out of your life all you want, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord….Peace & Blessings!!
“For me to argue with ones who are set in thought is pointless for me to do.”
1) And yet, here you are. Arguing. Or shall we discuss?
2) We’re not set in thought. I’ve changed my mind on bunches of important issues; all it takes is evidence or at least some logic. If there is no evidence or logic, and we are talking about faith/certainty in things for which everything knowable points the other direction… well, there isn’t much to argue or discuss if that’s the case, right? Not because I’m closed minded but because I’m open minded, and you have nothing to add to my open mind.
I stopped taking people’s word in fantastic, unseen, unknowable creatures and events long ago but what drove it home recently was hearing a rape victim describe how she identified the wrong guy despite being face to face with him the whole time. She admits she sees the innocent guy (released after DNA evidence) raping her when she imagines the assault.
Experience misled; science iluminated. And liberated. And then it caught the actual perp. But we can agree on peace and bles–er, well wishes.
What a dick. I used to like reading this column, but this guy wrote a decent letter asking for your help and you CRUCIFIED him. Aren’t we all supposed to be ‘open-minded’ and ‘respectful’ of peoples beliefs and lifestyles Dan? ESPECIALLY if they’re gay? I think so. In fact, it’s rammed down our throats not to be so judgemental now-a-days. Maybe you should exercise the same open-mindedness and respect for religious people that you expect out of others toward your sexuality. If you didn’t want to respond to this you could’ve put ‘No Comment’, instead of getting your panties in a knot.
What’s with the juvenile, narrow-minded approach toward what Christians and Catholics are? They come in a large array- and I’m not sure, for example, how many soup kitchens and shelters exist among non-religious groups who meet on a regular basis and volunteer their time. Sure, it happens, but not on the same scale. You’re anti-religion views sound like they’re coming from a close-minded, melodramatic teen filled with apathy trying to shock everyone around him with personal “knowledge”. This shit may drive up readership, for the shock value– is that all this is? I don’t think so. You want positive change for everyone- so let’s see it, instead of this griping, huh?
138 is your typical xtian…when a hole is poked in their argument, they avoid discussing the point made and instead fall back on their brainwashing. Total avoidance.
Shomondo…it’s call the Scientific Method. Go to college (though actually, I think they teach this in middle and high school these days). Study. Learn. Test. Verify!
Hey if you are christian, and you are mad at what Dan wrote: FORGIVE HIM HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES. And then read that part about not flaunting your prayers in public.
Can we all agree that whether or not there is a God, most of the people who claim to be christian in public are complete fucking hypocrites? Can we agree that teaching kids they will go to hell for sexual urges is child abuse, even though it’s socially tolerated? Can we agree that most people who condemn others to hell are using the same circuits as people rooting for their sports team? Can we agree that any God that is so petty s/he cares about CAEM’s sex life is a psychopathic tyrant who is not worth worshipping, no matter how hot a hell s/he will send you to? Can we agree that children absorb religion the same way they absorb the tooth fairy (regardless of the truth of the religion)?
It seems to me there should be lots of points of agreement for everyone regardless of what we all think about the existence of God.
I’m disappointed in your answer to CAEM, Dan. Your analysis of sex vs. humanity vs. religion was right on (may I use it in the future?), but you blew it by stating your opinion on the existence of a Supreme Being as if it were settled fact. It certainly is not. It’s clear he’s a Christian of some sort, so why didn’t you suggest he attend a MCC service in his area? Or even a Unitarian or Quaker congregation, for crap’s sake. (I attended a lesbian Quaker wedding in June, and it was a joyous event.) There’s no reason to belittle him just because you think believers in a god are beneath you. Jeez.
“Gods” are a human construct and were imagined tens of thousands of years ago to likely assign value and meaning to life. And surely tenets, dogma, et cetera, were appended thereafter to appease and control the masses. Atheism, the belief in the absence of “God,” is really just an opinion because we as humans have no proof that there is or isn’t a “God.” That’s why I’m an agnostic – I don’t know. But what I do know is that I encourage anyone wanting to broaden their paradigm to study history, which gives all important context – it explains why things are the way they are. The sciences are also important fields to study because they look at the who, when, what, why and how of our environs. Seek “truths” by asking questions, observing, and experimenting with typical or atypical ideologies. And know that others’ opinions are just that, and that they are no “greater” than your own. Living in the question is an excellent start.
anyone who believes that god is anything other than a myth born of human superstition is an idiot.
If he is gay and wants an accepting church, he should try looking at some Episcopal ones. Sometimes I think we have more gay members than straight at ours.
If he is gay and wants an accepting church, he should try looking at some Episcopal ones. Sometimes I think we have more gay members than straight at ours.
Good advice from Octopodes, plus I forgot to mention to CAEM one easy-to-read book that clarifies things well: What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality, by Fr. Daniel Helminiak, Ph.D. Don’t listen to Mr Me, who echoes the popular but very wrong stance, and take it from folks like Helminiak and yonush18. Helminiak actually has two Ph.D’s, one in Bible and one in clinical psychology, and unlike many of the fire-and-brimstone Pat Robertson clones of the day, reads both Testaments in their original languages to analyze what’s being said in the context of their times. I promise you you will come away from the book feeling better about yourself, the Bible, and your faith.
I think the advice to Schismatic was a bit too judgemental. There is a proper forum for her brother in law’s ranting, and it’s not at intimate family gatherings.