You are known as an arbiter of
all aspects of sex and especially definitions, and we are seeking your
definitive opinion.
My wife and I were recently regaling each
other with anecdotes from our past, and she easily had the most
interesting story: It seems that when she was a young woman in college,
a fellow student invited her over for lunch. It turns out that he
thought she was lunch. He quickly had her clothes off and was kissing
her, although he was still dressed. Then he brought out a vibrator. He
applied the vibrator, she had an orgasm, and then she called a halt to
the proceedings. They went back to school, and that was the beginning
and the end of their relationship.
Did she have sex?
Now, I think any time you have an orgasm
you’ve had sex, and if someone else is present, even if they’re
clothed, you definitely had sex. My wife’s view is that since he never
got his clothes off and she never saw his cock, she really didn’t have
sex. We would like your opinion on this.
Definition Essential For Intensely Novel
Experience
Let’s say you and I met in a bar, DEFINE,
while the wife was out of town, and we hit it off. And let’s say I took
you home, stripped you naked, made out with you, sucked your dick, ate
your ass, spanked you, tossed you in a sling, fist-fucked you, and
then—with my right arm buried up to my elbow in your
ass—slowly stroked you with my left hand until you blew a massive
load all over your stomach, chest, and face.
Now let’s say I taped the whole thing and
e-mailed a copy to your wife. I think it’s highly unlikely that your
wife would turn to you after watching the video—remember: I don’t
get naked, you never see my dick—put a hand on your knee, and
say, “Well, I’m glad you didn’t have sex with Dan Savage.”
Your wife clearly regrets going to that
guy’s room; she regretted the moment she came, just as you would
probably regret going home with me. These feelings prompt her to round
this experience down to Not Sex, to minimize it, to exclude it from her
sexual history on a technicality: He didn’t get naked, she didn’t get
fucked. Your wife can attempt to rationalize away the sex she had in
that dorm, DEFINE, but she had sex with that guy—and that guy’s
vibrator—whether she wants to admit it or not.
I’m writing to you to let you
know that a huge fan and reader of your column has been in a coma since
September 5. He had a bad motorcycle accident and has a severe brain
injury. His name is Jon Broom, and he’s my boyfriend, the love of my
life, and my best friend. Even though he still hasn’t woken up, I’ve
been reading your columns out loud to him so that he never misses one.
I know you’re a busy man, but I thought I’d take a chance and ask if
you could pass on his Facebook support group at “Get Well Jon” in one
of your columns (www.tinyurl.com/m3ngc3).
I think it would be awesome for him to look back and see your column
when he wakes up and is able to function again.
We appreciate your writings and support for
the people who ask for your advice. Here’s to hope, faith, and
community.
Penny Kim
Oh, Penny, I’m so sorry. Best wishes for a
full and speedy recovery. If you’re on Facebook—and who
isn’t?—please join Jon’s support group.
I just had to share with you
my first reaction to reading this headline: “Santorum dips toes in 2012
Iowa waters.” My first thought was “Ewwww,” followed quickly by “Is
that even possible?” After all, santorum is something that is dipped
into, not something that can dip. And then I remembered that before
“santorum” meant santorum it actually designated a person, a senator.
But it took me a few seconds.
Congratulations on a job well done. I expect
I am not the only one who had this moment of cognitive dissonance upon
reading this headline.
A Faithful Reader
Ben Smith at Politico reported last Tuesday
that Republican former U.S. senator Rick Santorum plans to run for
president. Political Wire linked to Smith’s post and added that
“Santorum has a serious Google problem.” Truthdig linked to Political
Wire’s post and spelled out Santorum’s Google problem: “The former
senator’s rampant homophobia inspired sex columnist Dan Savage to
launch a campaign to usurp the conservative’s name. The result: If you
type ‘Santorum’ into Google, you’ll find that it refers not to a former
senator, but ‘that frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is
sometimes the byproduct of anal sex.'”
From uppercase Santorum to lowercase
santorum—in just three links.
And who deserves the credit? Not me. The
credit is yours, dear readers. It’s thanks to you that SpreadingSantorum.com—a blog
that I haven’t updated since July of 2004—remains the number-one
hit on Google when you search “Santorum.” It was a Savage Love reader
who first suggested that we usurp Rick Santorum’s name, another Savage
Love reader who suggested the “frothy mixture” definition, and Savage
Love readers who chose the winning definition in a free and fair
election. Well done, gang.
We can’t take credit for Santorum losing his
seat in the U.S. Senate to Bob Casey by 18 points. That was Rick’s
doing. But we helped to make him ridiculous—there were so many
headlines during his failed reelection campaign with “froth” or
“frothy” in them. And for a politician, being an object of ridicule is
a problem, which is why SpreadingSantorum.com and the
“frothy mixture” definition of santorum are going to be a problem for
Santorum.
“Maybe it’s time to start updating
Spreading
Santorum.com again,”
writes Savage Love reader P.B., “now that Rick is running for
president.”
I couldn’t agree more, P.B., but I’m a busy
guy. Back when I was writing for Spreading
Santorum.com, I had only the column on my
plate. Now I blog every day on Slog, I do a podcast, I’ve got a bad
case of talking headism, and I’m working on another book. I don’t have
the time to give SpreadingSantorum.com the attention
it needs.
But maybe some Savage Love readers do?
If SpreadingSantorum.com is going to
remain Google’s top hit when you search “santorum”—and it
should—then the site needs to come back to life. So I’m looking
for a few folks who want to torment Rick Santorum by following every
twist and turn of his sure-to-be-disastrous run for the White House on
SpreadingSantorum.com. (I
may dip in every once in a while and post myself.) It would be labor of
love—read: a nonpaying gig—but you’ll have the satisfaction
of knowing that you’re driving Rick Santorum and his supporters
absolutely batshit (batshittier?).
If you think you’re the right person for
this gig—if you think you’re right for Spreading
Santorum.com—write me at
mail@savagelove
.net.
who isn’t on facebook. YOU, Dan.
I laughed out loud at the first response. Another great column.
Way to trivialize sexual assault {“she had sex with that guy—and that guy’s vibrator—whether she wants to admit it or not”} in your response to DEFINE.
It doesn’t sound like his wife had sex; it sounds as if she was raped.
If people don’t know about Santorum’s google problem by now, they’re SURE going to find out as soon as the election starts.
Just Googled Santorum, and spreadingsantorum.com was the top link! And I’m looking forward to the snarky coverage (so to speak) of the former senator’s run for the White House. Thanks Dan!
@3, you are way jumping to conclusions here. When the wife “called a halt” to the proceedings, they stopped. That is the opposite of rape. Things may have proceeded faster than she expected, she may have felt pressured into it, she may regret it now, but I’m not reading this (brief, anecdotal, and secondhand) account as nonconsensual. I don’t think you should leap to a conclusion of sexual assault when the wife herself apparently doesn’t categorize it as such.
I hope your book is a book for parents on talking to their kids about sex. I’ve heard plenty of the parents’ questions on the podcast. Parenting questions aren’t really titillating enough for the podcast or your column, but they would be great in a book.
@3 – I didn’t see anywhere in DEFINE’s letter that his wife had said “no” to the guy. She said she called a stop to it after her orgasm.
Hang on a sec, #3. There’s nothing in the column to indicate that she said no, up until the point when she came. At which point she got dressed and left with apparently no objection from the guy (I’m sure he was a little confused at best). So how do you get rape?
#3, WTF? You’re the one trivializing sexual assault here. Having a sexual encounter you didn’t enjoy or have oogy feelings about later is NOT rape. It’s not a good thing, but it’s not rape according to the story we were told.
That said, I wonder if there was a reason the wife didn’t want to apply the “sex” label other than a too-limited definition of sex. Perhaps drugs or alcohol were involved.
@3 – I don’t see any mention of anyting non-consensual. Sounds like she’s embarrassed about it and regrets it, but that’s not rape. I could actually are less whether she (or Dan Savage for that matter) considers the vibrator session sex; obviously that definiton is up for debate. The definition of rape is not.
3:
“He applied the vibrator, she had an orgasm, and then she called a halt to the proceedings. They went back to school, and that was the beginning and the end of their relationship.”
In other words, when she said stop, he stopped. No other indication that she said stop before and that he ignored her, or that she wasn’t into it or consenting in any way. So how in the world is that rape?
Thank you Dan – I learned something important about myself today.
I gave a blow job to a boy in a park. I don’t consider this to be sex. I consider every other blow job I’ve ever given to be sex.
It was sex. I just don’t like to think about it, because, while I was there willingly – retrospectively, it was a pretty bad idea.
So yeah, I think that’s what is going on. If its fun, we call it sex – if we regret it, it becomes a hazy mistake. That’s okay. I think I might just go on denying that anything happened – but I know this is my own personal denial, and doesn’t reflect any kind of objective truth. The wife in question has a right to define her own experiences any way she likes – and its okay if no one else agrees with her.
But wouldn’t it be better for Sick Rick to actually win the Repub. nomination and be the laughing stock that he is? For his grotesque image to further taint the Party of Ain’t?
Thank you Dan and fellow fans for spreading my boyfriend’s “Get Well Jon” facebook support group. We thank you and appreciate your posts!
Wow…just wow. This is seriously the first time I printed out an article and handed it to my wife. I feel vindicated. THANK YOU DAN!
great point you made at the first part!
Wait a sec, Hubby Man… Does your wife feel bad about this encounter? Then why didn’t you let it slide when you saw her definition of sex allows her to feel better about it? I mean, it is a matter of opinion anyway… and even if Dan doesn’t agree, most heterosexuals define “having sex” as necessitating direct penis-vagina action… and sex involving other orifices have their own names: “anal sex” and “oral sex”. What if your wife had been a virgin? Would this really count in your book as her deflowering? Seems you are going out of your way to be a bully or something. What is this really about?
totally with #18 on this one – let it go.
and #3? seriously? i hope you never learn how far off you are.
If that was the best sexual regaling story that the wife had from her college years, she did not get the most out of her education,
Jesus everybody, I don’t even see anything indicating the wife regretted this incident. She and her husband were regaling tales of their past, sounds like they were telling stories about wild/fun/whatever things they’ve done. God, just because some people consider sex to be intercourse she must have some shame complex about it all? Christ. It sounds more to me like this guy assumed they would be having sex so she did the hilarious use him and deprive him one-over (Think sex and the city episode 1). And comparing it to cheating on a spouse? What relevance is that? The stories are from their pasts. She was allowed to do whatever with this guy before she met her husband I think.
@21 Why I think she was uncomfortable: She described the situation as going fast and surprising her – then she ended it and left. Sounds like the situation was feeling negative or why choose such an odd moment to end it? She orgasms and then leaves and he’s still clothed? Very abrupt. Plus, her insistence on framing it as “not sex” is noteworthy… it suggests an aversion to the incident…
Yes I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Lots of ladies don’t learn how to say “no” in highschool and it’s pushy guys like this one who teach them how! Usually after a few times of going farther than you wanted to.
I dunno. I’m surprised everyone’s jumping to conclusions that it made her feel awful. Some people just have weird definitions of what constitutes sex — see Christian teenagers ass-fucking each other and somehow remaining virginal.
@18: Interesting point, but I wouldn’t hammer it too hard. Honestly, when I read that letter, it sounded like a typical situation of husband and wife having one of those stalemate debates, and to end on a playful, amicable note, they decide to take it to someone they both respect and find entertaining.
Sounds like buddy’s wife was a bit of a tease in her college days, I hope for his sake she has gotten over that, you know, unless he’s into that sort of thing. She probably ruined that guy with the vibrator for all of the women that came after her. He goes through all of the effort to make sure she comes first before even getting undressed and she takes off on him. At his next encounter I’ll bet he made sure to come first, just in case. Way to go, Wifey…
I have a question on how this column works. If I write Dan a question advice thing, will he respond directly to my e-mail or does he only respond when he writes the column? Is that the only place I will get a response to my questions?
Your response to DEFINE was your all-time best, Dan. That had me rolling! As far as the comments go, there is no indication that the wife was assaulted or even felt bad about the situation. Maybe she regretted it afterward, or maybe her definition of sex is penis-in-vagina. Either way, it sounds like her and hubby were just having a good time sharing their sexual exploits of the past. It doesn’t sound at all like it was a traumatic experience.
Hey #3 — Swarthmore and Dan Savage have some column history. When I used to hang out at the Alice Paul Women’s Center (is it still in Bond?) I would’ve been fed the line that this was assault too. But she said “no,” it stopped, there you are. May I suggest you broaden your reading from Susan Brownmiller to, say, Camille Paglia for starters.
While reading about the poor chap in a coma, I was thinking the girlfriend was going to ask what would happen if she gave him head.
I don’t see any reason to assume that the wife regretted the encounter. Maybe she did, but we can’t jump to conclusions. One of my best friends insists that it’s not sex unless a penis penetrates a vagina. If you ask her, “did you have sex with so-and-so?” she will say no, only to tell you about a glowing encounter that involved everything but vaginal penetration – everyone naked, everyone having orgasms. This has become a big joke among our group of friends – but clearly, she’s not disturbed by these encounters. Maybe there’s some element of cultural conditioning at work – maybe she feels like she would be a slut if she called it sex. But we can only guess, and the one thing I do know is that she doesn’t minimize these incidents because she didn’t enjoy them.
While we can only guess what was going on with the wife, I think it’s wrong to assume that she must have felt bad about the encounter, and extremely misguided to cry rape over it. Who knows how it came up in conversation?
Funny people should wonder if DEFINE’s situation was rape–there’s nothing in the description that suggests it was. Oh well, most people here got that already anyway.
Should the husband/wife have asked the question? A couple of people were offended the husband didn’t just let the question go (‘since it made her uncomfortable’). Hm. So do you think he’d submit this question without asking her first? And without being sure she’s OK with it? Could be, but do you know this couple so well? To me, it seems they were just laughing at funny things that happened in their sex lives (something I and my wife have done more than once, too)
I guess there’s still an undercurrent of ‘women are poor little flowers whose personalities can break at the slightest sexual difficulty, so be veeeerrry careful with them!’ going in America. What a pity. Women, of course, are stronger than that.
Okay, all has good comments to first post, except #3.. I think they a douchbag… The wifey was not raped. BUT, the whole time I was thinking, you go to a guys room, and you let him use a vibrator on you that HE HAS?!?!?! Unless he just took it out of it’s store packaging… That’s gross gross gross… you don’t know who else he used it on, or if it’s been cleaned properly, That’s just wrong. Sorry, I’m squemish about these things…
Sounds like the wife in the first letter paid attention to Bill Clinton when he said, “I did not have sex with that woman.” Wasn’t Monica fully clothed every time she gave Bill a blowjob?
Another Book?!?
I work at your publisher, assuming you are working with Plume again.
I may yet have a chance to meet you and thank you for getting me through my closeted years.
Finish that Manuscript so you will have to come to my office!
Now if only Rick Warren would run as Santorum’s VP, we could see the glorious union of http://www.spreadingsantorum.com and http://www.saddlebacking.com
@31: Ew, I didn’t even think of that. Good one.
Way to trivialize rape, #3. Where in this story does the wife allude to force? Nowhere. This was simply consensual sex against her better judgement. She came, and then came to her senses. She said stop. He did. As a woman, I get highly irritated with your type of alarmist mindset. Is it rape because she regretted it? Remember the college that actually created rules for consensual sex…you had to ask permission for each next step? “May I kiss you? May I unbutton your blouse? May I insert my throbbing manhood into your lovecave?” Gawd. How excruciating. Anyone remember what school that was?
So you’re looking for someone who can cause Santorum to froth at the mouth?
#31 the same can be said about a penis. you don’t know how many vaginas it’s been in or if it’s cleaned properly.
@#3:
Ever hear the story about the boy who cried “Wolf!”?
Read it again.
@36: I believe it was Antioch, although I might be wrong.
Yeah, Antioch. I had a friend who went there during that time. She said that the students all considered it pretty much a joke.
24 – Maybe the guy ENJOYED getting the chick off and to him it isn’t all about whether he’s going to get his. I’ve known a few guys like that and inevitable they get theirs and then some. And, using a vibrator on someone to get them to cum isn’t the same as “going through all of the effort to make sure she comes” – enjoyable yes, all that effort no. Your comment sounds whiney and sort of me, me, me – ish, not the attitude most women are looking for in a male lover.
You enjoyed writing the first paragraph to DEFINE didn’t you Dan?
I know enjoyed reading it.
Why isn’t there anything about small-s santorum on Santorum’s wikipedia page? Highly suspicious!
I’m hoping DEFINE’s wife will revisit her feelings about her reported orgasm. Sounds like a good time was had by all. And then it was over. Her husband, it feels like to me, kinda likes that this happened; I think there might be some teasing and titillation going on. They might even reenact it for fun! I had some teenage sex that I was long ashamed of till I finally realized he had fun, I had fun, it was all consensual, and people love hearing about it! Time for some revisionism, sweetheart. Make it a happy memory!
Re: your answer to DEFINE – I was all the way with you (and getting turned on) until the fist fucking part.
*scratches needle off the record*
I kid…great advice as always you Savage beast you… 😉
I’m just waiting for a member of the press to address Santorum as “Senator Frothy.” His reaction will be priceless.
‘Your wife clearly regrets going to that guy’s room; she regretted the moment she came’
I don’t see anything clear about it, unless the letter was edited down (which it likely was). From what I can read, it sounds like she either thought it was a funny, surprising encounter from her naive youth that was closer to mutual masturbation than sex… or, as others have mentioned, she went to someone’s place for lunch and he, having other plans, assaulted her.
Nice job, Dan.
@ #27: are you suggesting someone should read Camille Paglia for real? I suppose it’s never a bad idea to give an author a shot, but…. blech.
Reading Paglia for a perspective on Feminism is almost like telling someone to read Ann Coulter for a woman’s perspective on politics, imo.
🙂