You recently gave this advice to a gay man involved with a married bisexual man: “DON’T MESS AROUND WITH BISEXUALS.” You went on to say he shouldn’t mess around with married men, either. Staying away from people who are in committed relationships is sound advice. But condemning all bisexuals as poor relationship material is prejudiced, biphobic, and hurtful.
Most condemnations of bisexuals are made on the basis of their presumed inability to be monogamous, a generalization that is in many cases false. But you yourself admit that most gay men are equally unable to be monogamous. Therefore, the only possible explanation for your anti-bisexual response is pure, irrational bias. You do all your bisexual readers a disservice, along with the gay and straight people who love them, by allowing your prejudices and fears to color your otherwise valuable advice.
Jennifer Coderre, Co-Founder, Bisexual Insurgence
It wasn’t prejudice and fear that colored my advice for Bud, Jennifer, but plain ol’ common sense. Bud, a gay man dating a married bisexual man, was frustrated about having to share his “soulmate” with his soulmate’s wife. Bud’s problem had nothing to do with monogamy (and if Bud was hung up on monogamy, he wouldn’t have gotten involved with a married man in the first place) and everything to do with primacy. Bud wants to be his soulmate’s one-and-only, but that wasn’t in the cards (not with this particular soulmate), so I advised Bud to find some other soulmate. Under the circumstances, telling Bud to rule out bi guys and married men was sensible advice.
Sorry, but avoiding bi guys is a good rule of thumb for gay men looking for long-term relationships. Outside of San Francisco’s alternate-universe bisexual community, there aren’t many bi guys who want or wind up in long-term, same-sex relationships — monogamous or not. Surely it’s not news to you that people are put under a lot of pressure to choose partners of the opposite sex. The number of homos who succumb to this pressure is staggering, so it should come as no shock that most bisexuals wind up with opposite-sex partners. And while many straight men are delighted to discover their girlfriends are bisexual, most straight women are not delighted to discover their boyfriends are bisexual. Consequently, bi guys who want opposite sex partners are under tremendous pressure to stay closeted. And when a guy is closeted — as most bi guys are — he can’t really be there for his boyfriend, can he?
I’m not saying bi guys are bad people, or they don’t make great one-night stands. Bushes, bathhouses, and sleazy gay bars are crawling with bi guys. But if a guy wants more, he’ll have an easier time getting it from another gay man.
As a gay male who’s been playing the field for 20 years, I have to say that bi/married men just plain suck. They sneak out on wifey at home, then look for quick fixes with men, paranoid about being caught stiff-dicked with a guy. They want a straight life and its perks, and a cock when they can manage to squeeze it in (if you’ll pardon the expression). The bi guy’s “boyfriend” is always the disposable one.
Fag for Fags
Thanks for sharing your prejudices and fears with my readers, Fag for Fags. Your bigotry is as transparent as it is offensive, FFF, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. But for what it’s worth — and it’s not much — I agree with every word you wrote.
I feel horrible for Bud, not because I’ve been in his shoes, but because I’ve been the wife. My ex-husband initially told me he just wanted to try a threesome with me and another man, and that it was “just a fetish.” I wound up divorcing him when I found out he was cheating on me; a divorce preceded by months of lies and manipulations. Bud needs to know that this man tells his wife he loves her just like he tells Bud he loves him. I bet she thinks he’s her soulmate, too. In reality, he’s just a user. They should both leave him and stamp “avoid” on his forehead.
Wish I Could Protect Everybody from Assholes
Thanks for sharing your prejudices and fears with my readers, Wish I Could Protect Everybody from Assholes. Your bigotry is as transparent as it is offensive, WICPEFA, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. But for what it’s worth — and it’s not much — I agree with every word you wrote.
I’m a bisexual man. I suspect your offensive statement (“DON’T MESS AROUND WITH BISEXUALS”) has something to do with two pieces of “common knowledge.” The first is that bis are really gay. The second says, that because of social pressure, a bi man will inevitably reject a man over a woman. If these are your reasons, shame on you! The same “conventional wisdom” that says a bi man will leave a gay man for a woman, says a bi man will leave a woman for a man! That’s bigotry. Of course, both these things happen all the time, but don’t gay men leave each other for other men? Straight folks don’t leave each other? People leave people. The rules and the risks are the same, gay, straight, or bi.
Andrew
Judging from my mail, Andrew, when a gay guy or a straight girl gets involved with a bi guy, someone always winds up getting hurt. And guess what? It’s rarely the bi guy. So while I wish the rules and the risks were the same for everyone, it seems that in this instance they’re not.
I read a letter recently in which your advice to a guy fooling around with a married bi guy was (in part) “DON’T FOOL AROUND WITH BISEXUALS!” Did you mean that this advice-seeker in particular shouldn’t fool around with bisexuals, or that nobody should?
KD
No, there are definitely some people who should fool around with bisexual men: OTHER BISEXUAL MEN! Jesus Christ, bisexuals — if straights and gays treat you unfairly, then why not turn to each other for love and comfort? Judging from my mail of late, there’s an unlimited supply of easily offended, extremely verbose, highly ethical bisexuals out there looking for love. Fuck each other!
Guys, this man is also a racist. So his views are very old news. If he doesnt want to learn, don’t teach him, cause I’m sure he doesnt care. I understand your frustations, but we got better things to do. Come brothers and sisters let’s go somewhere we’re accepted and loved ^.^
A… racist??? Please tell me you’re fucking joking.
You are doing something very similar to what people up to the 70s were doing dismissing homosexuality because there was “scientific data” linking it to pedophilia and other deviant behaviors. We know today that is not true but at the time all the buzz around such things just made the homosexual minority feel even more repressed if not truly guilty and ashamed.
Today, we enjoy an homosexual establishment and acceptance as never before, we are widely read and influential at all levels in society. Do we need to make statements to repress other minorities that to some extent (as homosexuality did in the past) threaten us?
Please, with the opportunity to be a creative, smart and widely read person and true opinionmaker, whether you want it or not, also comes a great responsibility. Use it wisely, u neednt be sterile and politically correct, just avoid crushing people whose invisibility is due to the perception people are disseminating in society taking highly discussed science where the jury is still so out and their very particular personal circle and experience.
wishing you the best,
Andrew
I *would* say I’m a bisexual woman, but everyone knows girls who make out with girls are skanks entertaining men. Also I literally cannot cheat on my boyfriend with a woman because there’s no way that relationship could be an actual threat, I have no interest in seeing my men (straight or otherwise) kiss and anyway I stop being bi if I happen to be currently smoking cock.
I *would* say I’m a bisexual woman, but everyone knows that a girl who makes out with a girl is a skank who does so only for the entertainment of men. It is also physically impossible for me to cheat on my boyfriend with a woman because there’s no way that could ever threaten him so it’s not betrayal, it’s hot. I also have no interest in seeing men (straight or otherwise) kiss, and anyway I stop being bi if I happen to be smoking cock. Hey, I’m just laid-back, not an Angry Bisexual (Manhating Dyke Mk. 2.)
Its hilarious how some people are wound up so tightly they fly off the handle if they perceive they’re being criticized in the least. Ive been reading Savage Love for a decade and have had a chance to interview Dan at length twice. He’s neither racist nor bi-phobic. But he’s not gonna spout some politically-correct party line just to appease his audience.
The fact is that a majority of bi men either come out as gay or end up in monogamous heterosexual relationships. Not because bi people are shady, but because like all of us, they’re pressured by society to conform.
Dan’s role is not to uplift any communities that are invisible or maligned. Its to tell the readers who ask him questions the best way to resolve their sexual or romantic issues. And in this case, that means this guy SHOULD STAY CLEAR OF BI GUYS!.
In a word…unrewarding would best be suited!
Having recently been involved with a bi sexual man.
Who during our involvement got married, as well had a child.
May qualify me to write about this topic.
In the beginning of our involvement. He was in a long term relationship. This I became aware of shortly after meeting. Unfortunately, not soon enough having already grown fond of him. At the time, he had little interest in marriage or having children. To the point, he was irritated at the though. A lot can happen in a year and a half.
What started out as innocent exploration got really complicated and damaging. Consistency,communication, consideration and honesty fell way leaving confusion, resentment, integrity-less cryptic behavior in how he related to me.
I would have to agree with the columnist’s advice.
With regard to getting involved with a bi sexual “married” man!
Which is quite different from just being a involved with a bisexual man. That I tend to feel, should be considered case by case. Its unfair and rather unrealistic to make a statement pertaining to “all ” bisexual men. Sexuality in general on a individual level. Is diverse, unique, constantly evolving, changing in discovery of self.
With that said. I think the best any one person can do is be responsible for self. If the idea your partner or other. Could find them self attracted to a woman, without warning or ultimately that’s what they wanted, bothers you or presents an issue you cannot get beyond. Stay away! You will only torture yourself and them as well.
If this idea in not a problem at present. Be aware that feelings and attachment are a hard thing to be certain of at any given time. Yours and theirs as well. At best you will ultimately and undoubtedly be tested in how well you manage your expectations.
If this is something you are prepared for and want. By all means knock your self out.
Just remember, in the end that may be the only thing you are left with.
Being bisexual does not imply the guy will be anymore likely to act like an asshole or cheat than anyone else who is sexual. Its your responsibility to make your feelings known. Although not foolproof or any more certainty in saving your self from possibly future hurt or regret.
It will hopefully lessen the likelihood. What more can one do. In the end should things go awry.
You can be confident in the fact. You acted with the utmost integrity. So much to be said for that. The rest can be left to a learning experience. One you may not want to repeat!
dragonA, you use too many full stops. The ones at the end of lines 2 and 3, for example, would have been better replaced with parenthetical dashes, and many of the others should simply have been commas. I gave up reading your long comment halfway through because your incorrect punctuation was painful to me, so if you want to give a good impression and be understood, please take note.
http://andeatit2.wordpress.com/2008/07/0…
seriously, I hope Dan’s managed to evolve since this one…. but I fear he hasn’t.
“Thanks for sharing your prejudices and fears with my readers, Wish I Could Protect Everybody from Assholes. Your bigotry is as transparent as it is offensive, WICPEFA, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. But for what it’s worth — and it’s not much — I agree with every word you wrote. “
Likewise, Dan, I agree with you – thanks for the honesty: your fears, transparent bigotry, and prejudices are readily apparent, and you also should be ashamed of your asshole self.
Dizzy spins-Thanks for spreading even more biphobic misinformation and hate.
Most bisexual men do not eventually come out as gay men.
Savage is still very biphobic and transphobic even if he and you want to claim that he’s not.
Clearly you who don’t comprehend what bisexuals face in straight and gay community, from what I can read. I’ve already talked about how the gay and straight community both discriminate against bisexual men and women over the supposed “hetero privilege”. At the end of the day, when gay men and women refuse to understand or accept bisexuals, or worse, berate them because they can “pass”, that’s one part of the community discriminating against another part. But you apparently want a de jure analysis instead of a de facto analysis because the de facto analysis negates your sense of victimhood.
I will simply remind you that bisexuals are included in most (if not all) major legislation (DADT, ENDA, hate crimes, etc), and that some of those laws are written without comprehension of the full spectrum of sexual orientation is not my fault, I didn’t write them. It’s not my fault that Gay, Inc pushes what happens to same-sex couples, all of whom are then referred to as “lesbian” or “gay”.
You’re demanding an answer which will fit your own personal agenda and belief system, and that’s not going to happen. You consistently choose to ignore the reality of what bisexual men and women go experience, and want to hang your hat on a faux-legal analysis which you think proves how “easy” it is to pass as a straight guy if you happen to be a bisexual man who marries a woman. This is exactly the kind of nonsense I’m talking about when I see gay men discriminating against bisexuals. Get over it.
like many gay men (Dan included), you have no clue what it means to be bisexual. Every attempt I have made to explain the reality of bisexuality has failed miserably because we are not on the same page, and quite frankly I’m not sure if it’s because you cannot grasp the concept or refuse to grasp the concept, although I’ leaning toward the latter.
I think that, like many straight and gay folks, it’s just easier for you to put people into easy-to-define boxes, and since bisexuality tends to be not-so-easy to define, it’s simply dismissed because of ignorance.
OUT bisexual people are going to be faced with the same homophobia that gay people receive. It’s. That. Simple. It’s not like it’s ok to be bi and in the military! Yes, bi people can and do get in exclusive partnerships with members of the opposite sex, in which they can sometimes – but not always – “pass” as straight people and recieve the benefits that come along with being straight. But even in those cases, they still aren’t straight.
As for Dan’s “advice” about not getting involved with bisexual men that’s BS, if you want a monogamous relationship which is VERY VERY VERY rare among gay men anyway-just look at how many gay men have open relationships or just pretend that they are “monogamous” while they cheat on their male partners, then don’t get involved with someone who already has a partner, or if they have an open relationship understand that their partner and their relationship with their partner is always going to come first and should come first.
Dan:
1) Very few people are going to write into you to tell you that their relationship with a bi guy is going swimmingly and they don’t need your help. You are dealing with a sample pool that is tainted by design, because you are an advice columnist.
2) Has it occurred to you that the gay guys and straight girls whose hearts are broken by bi guys are voicing their own biphobic bullshit when they write into you? In a way they wouldn’t if the bi guy left the gay guy for another man, or the straight girl for another woman?
“Jesus Christ, bisexuals — if straights and gays treat you unfairly, then why not turn to each other for love and comfort? Judging from my mail of late, there’s an unlimited supply of easily offended, extremely verbose, highly ethical bisexuals out there looking for love. Fuck each other.”
Jesus Christ, gay men, if straights treat you unfairly, just fuck other gay men! Seems like there’s an unlimited supply of easily offended gay guys complaining about things that straight people say. Just fuck each other!
Oh wait, were you perhaps already doing that? Were your complaints perhaps not based on the fact that straight men will not fuck you, and instead based on your problems with homophobia and people perpetuating negative stereotypes about your sexuality? Well, whatever, Dan Savage. Based on your logic, just deal with it, shut up, and fuck gay dudes.