I’m a longtime reader who
thought I’d never have a reason to write since I’m universally known as
the “good girl.” I have a close male friend. Even though I knew he was
dating someone else, we became friends-with-benefits several years ago.
Because of his relationship (and the fact that he lives with her!),
sometimes it felt like a booty call; other times, it felt like it was
leading to something more. He once admitted that if things were
different, he could see us together. But a while ago I discovered that
while he was unfaithful to her, he had also been unfaithful to me.
On to the point: He recently proposed to his
girlfriend. I’m happy for him if it’s what he truly wants, but I feel
like he did it out of desperation. All I know is that there were some
ultimatums involved. Here is my dilemma: I don’t want to out myself, I
don’t want to hurt him, and I don’t want to ruin our friendship, Dan,
but I feel like she has to know what her fiancé is really like
before they get married. Should I anonymously contact her and let her
know that her man is a cheating man-whore? Thanks!
One Of Many Other Women
Gee… it must have come as a real shock
when you realized that a man who was capable of cheating on his live-in
girlfriend was also capable of cheating on the girl with whom he was
cheating on his live-in girlfriend. No one could’ve predicted, huh?
On to your question: I hate to think of some
poor woman marrying a cheating piece of shit (CPOS)—a CPOS is not
to be confused with an honest nonmonogamous dude (HND)—in
ignorance of his cheating-piece-of-shit-ness. It’s possible that the
CPOS’s fiancée already knows and has forgiven him; perhaps one
of those ultimatums touched on cheating. But odds are better that this
woman doesn’t know, and someone really ought to clue her in before the
wedding. But should that person be you?
I’m not comfortable with your motives,
OOMOW. You may be known throughout the universe as a “good
girl”—as the good girl—but your actions prove that
you’re something of a “bad girl.” And there’s more: Your desire to
destroy your FWB’s relationship proves that you’re something of a
“vindictive girl,” your attempt to pass your vindictiveness off as
concern for a woman you’ve repeatedly wronged proves that you’re a
“self-deluding girl,” and your desire to accomplish all of this without
paying any price yourself—you don’t want to out yourself or risk
ruining your “friendship” with the CPOS—proves that you’re a
“selfish girl” and a “cowardly girl.”
Come on, OOMOW: The reason you want to do
this anonymously is because your top concern is having the CPOS all to
yourself, and that means sticking a knife in his current relationship
without leaving any fingerprints. So it’s a good thing—a useful
thing—that you weren’t the only “other woman” in his life, OOMOW,
because he’ll never know for sure which one of his other women ratted
him out.
Setting your highly suspect motives
aside…
If I were in the fiancée’s shoes, I
would want to know what was going on before the wedding. So I do think
you should tell her. But if you have any shred of decency—even
the tiniest bit—you will tell her personally, apologize
profusely, and provide her with some proof. An anonymous tip won’t cut
it: A CPOS who has successfully hidden a collection of other women from
his fiancée will be able to talk his way out of an anonymous
accusation of infidelity. He’ll either claim the e-mail was sent by a
vindictive ex-girlfriend of his, which has the benefit of being very
nearly true, or he’ll claim that an ex-boyfriend of hers is trying to
destroy her happiness.
Finally, OOMOW, why do you want to be with
the CPOS? He cheated on his fiancée, he cheated on you, and he
probably cheated on the women who he was cheating on the both of you
with. He’s a piece of shit, his fiancée is a fool, and you’re a
vindictive, self-deluding, selfish coward. I’m not sure if you can all
do better, or that any of you deserve better, but I do think you should
all try.
I’m a hetero girl. I love
masturbating, but I get nothing from hetero porn. I can’t stand the
girls’ annoying voices. So I rely on gay porn. I tend to go for what
you gay guys call “twinks.” (Who the hell is a twink, technically
speaking? Please don’t tell me it’s anything statutory!) I’m not
concerned, just curious: I get really intrigued when I meet gay guys in
real life because I get off to so many in porn. I would love to watch
two twinks in reality at some point, but I’m not sure if gay guys would
be into that.
Twink Lover
Twinks are boyish gay men—boyish
men, not boyish boys—in their late teens to
mid-20s with slim-to-slightly-muscular bodies and relatively hairless
chins, chests, crotches, etc. So long as you’re getting your
live-action porn from reputable porn sites and companies, TL, you don’t
have anything to worry about on the statutory front.
As for watching a couple of twinks go at it,
there are lots of bisexual twinks out there—perhaps you could
date one and have the odd three-way with others? There are also,
without a doubt, some twink couples out there as turned on by the idea
of some straight girl watching them go at it as you are turned on by
the idea of watching. And thanks to the World Wide Interfluffer,
finding them—or renting them—is easier than ever. And
speaking of twinks…
However much Playgirl paid Levi
Johnston for that photo shoot, it wasn’t enough. Most people thought
Playgirl—which ceased publishing in print a while
ago—was dead and gone forever. Prior to this photo shoot with
Johnston, who even knew that Playgirl had a website? Or that
Playgirl had a publicist? A publicist who had this to say
after the shoot: “We were talking in the greenroom about gay
categories—bear, cubs—and Levi asked what his type would
be. We decided a twink, but older, so we anointed him a ‘twunk.'”
I love the idea of a twunk—an older
twink—but Levi Johnston is 19 years old. How old is a
twink supposed to be if a 19-year-old is already an aged twunk? No, no:
Johnston was never a twink. He is a high-school jock—the hockey
variety, to the delight of gear fetishists everywhere—gone
slightly to seed. But what’s more interesting than sorting Johnston
into his exact gay etymological category is watching Johnston, once a
major homophobe, become increasingly comfortable with teh gays.
Celebrity—that’s what he is now—means having to hang out
and work with (and work for) a certain number of out homos. Homophobia
is a luxury that Levi can’t afford anymore.
And, psst, Levi? If you did that
Playgirl shoot only to drive your former future mother-in-law
crazy—and if that was your plan, kiddo, it worked—imagine
how much crazier she’ll get if you do a little gay-for-pay porn. Just
sayin’. 
ATTENTION HOLIDAY SHOPPERS: The
Stranger‘s annual holiday auction—Stranger-crombie—is
on now and benefits several worthy local charities. Go to thestranger.com/strangercrombie for details, bargains, and hotties.
Twunk. Ha.
I wonder what her friends are like if she’s “The Good Girl?”
I don’t think OOMOW needs to say anything to anyone… just get the fuck out. Leave. Don’t look back. That guy, and his so-called marriage are a disaster about to happen anyway. Just leave. Let them sort their massive shit out (or more realistically, let that massive shit hit the fan and spread out like a mushroom cloud) and don’t be there. Just leave.
I also don’t think Levi was truly homophobic, just ignorant. He’s dumb and opportunistic (like George W. Bush), but he doesn’t seem outright evil (like Phelps).
Re OOMOW Dan, I’m not sure about your advice that she *should* tell the fiancee. She seems far too flippant about being the “good girl” and him a “cheating man-whore” – surely she should be honest with herself and realise that she is just as much a cheater as he is. If she was so good and moral and concerned in the first place, she should never have started sleeping with him. You have alluded to all of this and I think most of your advice is spot on, however, we don’t know what has gone on with the fiancee. Why should she, he or they rub the fiancee’s nose in it, non-anonymously or otherwise? I think the “good girl” should stay good and keep quiet.
no dipshits have said first yet
“and someone really ought to clue her in before the wedding.”
Never. Everyone should just mind their own business. OOMOW’s business needs to be not sleeping with guys in relationships, and she doesn’t need to expand her business into dramatic confrontations and wedding sabotage. OOMOW does not have adequate information to make or second guess life-decisions for the other women.
Dan, your advice to OOMOW was on the money. Kudos for seeing through her motives and calling her on it and for putting the naive fiancee’s needs in the forefront.
Now that you’ve told OOMOW exactly how she should handle the situation, my guess is that she won’t take either decent option (tipping off the fiancee in person or anonymously). Please let us know how this one plays out in future, if possible.
@ #3 you’re right on, dude. Just leave!
and to #5…oh yes they have!
Good advice Mr. Savage, especially to OOMOW. I have the feeling OOMOW might be acting passive-aggressively towards the CPOS, wanting revenge for lying to her, but she won’t actually say that because she’s the “good girl” that wants everyone to win in the end.
As for the last letter, speaking of heteros watching same-sex porn, has anyone else read the research study that compared the quality of sperm between men watching heterosexual porn and lesbian porn? I’m sure a lot of people have, because the news spread across the interwebs pretty quickly. As it turns out, watching hetero porn improves a man’s virility. It’s because he sees the other man in the video as competition, so he produces better quality sperm to better his odds at impregnating a woman. I cannot be the only person that knows this. I read it on Pharyngula:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/…
Apparently, the more men present in a porno, the better a heterosexual man’s quality of sperm. I wonder though, maybe the men watching lesbian-sex produced lesser quality sperm because they are not very comfortable with homosexuality … as unfavorable that conclusion may be. I also wonder what would happen if they tested this on homosexual men … would they find the same thing? More men in a video means better quality sperm all around? I don’t fucking know, I don’t know what goes through a man’s head while they watch porn … but a girl can wonder. A girl can wonder.
Ha ha ha….
Dan’s response to OOMOW is what I read Savage Love for. Dishonest, cheating FUs put in their place.
OOMOW basically has two choices:
1) STFU, or
2) Tip off CPOS’ girlfriend, in person, or at least over the phone, and then prove she still has a few shreds of dignity left by never speaking to CPOS again, ever.
Of course, if she had enough backbone to cut CPOS out of her life, she would have a long time ago. So that basically just leaves option 1.
Oh, and women in straight porn totally have annoying voices. Are there guys that are actually turned on by high-pitched faker-than-fake moaning? I always mute that shit. Ugh.
Oh man, I could have written TL’s letter. Only thing is, I have a thing for twinkish straight boys “experimenting” with each other rather than if they were just gay boys… is there even a name for that? But conversely, I do get a similar kick out of imagining a young gay boy curious about women and I get to help with that particular experimentation… seriously, there’s gotta be a name for the kind of orientation-bending I love!
Great advice for Levi!
Dan – I always love reading your column, but I’m not sure that I agree with your advice to OOMOW. She’s not friends with the fiancee, so she doesn’t owe her anything personally. If she gets in the middle of this circus it will only cause terrible drama and recrimination.
I would say she should either 1) STFU or 2) Make the CPOS come clean. Tell him that she’ll say something if he doesn’t, but give him the chance to be honest about it first. If I were the fiancee, I’d rather hear it from my boyfriend with the subtext that he’s trying to be honest and put his bad conduct behind him… then there’s at least some chance of rebuilding trust, because it looks like he cares enough to start the marriage right.
ps. for proper inspiration, OOMOW should watch the Star Trek: TNG episode The First Duty, in which Patrick Stewart lays down the law on integrity and coming clean.
Incredible that OOMOW is a ” good girl.” I agree with all these other comments – she has no right to tell the fiancee, no reason to, and really no involvement in the situation. She just wants to feel as if she has had some sort of victory.
Yep, agree with your suggestion to OOMOW. However, given her professed whimpy behavior and lack of fibre (which she perceives as being a ‘good girl’), she probably will say nothing, stay friends with the cheating fiance and may even continue their relationship after he is married. So further suggeston should be if she chooses to keep her mouth shut she should stop her cheating with the guy.
“And, psst, Levi? If you did that Playgirl shoot only to drive your former future mother-in-law crazy—and if that was your plan, kiddo, it worked—imagine how much crazier she’ll get if you do a little gay-for-pay porn. Just sayin'”
Oooo, Dan! You read my mind! I would love both to see the porn, and to see that “lady” driven crazy (-er) 😀
3 – absolutely agreed! Even if she does tell the fiancee and provide proof, which she doesn’t want to do because it will risk her “friendship”, she would have to be willing to break off her relationship (friend and otherwise) with the CPOS.
If she tells naive fiancee (NF) anonymously, NF won’t believe it and will go ahead with the wedding anyway. When a woman is in “wedding-mode”, sound advice goes out the window.
She should really think about what she wants and what is motivating her. If she wants him, then tell him! Put the ball in his court, but don’t warn him you’re going to tell her. That will only make him think of something to say to NF to head OOMOW off at the pass. It’s all just a big ball of crap. Extract yourself from it, and don’t talk to any of them. Find other, better quality friends.
RE: Levi Johnston:
Who still thinks the Left lost the culture wars? We freakin’ WON, people! And we will win, forever, because our culture is popular culture!
OT, but “teh gays”?
I’m a professional editor, so I always notice typos, and this is the first time I’ve ever seen one in Dan’s column. Mazel tov on your staff’s fallibility, dude!
@Wayne: I’m all for typo pedantry, but that was intentional LOLspeak/L33Tspeak. As in, “teh ghey pr0n.”
I spend way too much time on teh Intarwebz.
“But a while ago I discovered that while he was unfaithful to her, he had also been unfaithful to me.”
Still laughing at that. Priceless.
Oh no, OOMOW, don’t delude yourself that informing the fiancee will make any difference in her plans. I’ve seen this go down before. The fiancee will rationalize it, discount it, make peace with it and marry the guy anyway.
Just as you would, honey, if you got half the chance, thereby signing yourself up for more of the same shit-cake he’s serving up to her. Walk away—and count yourself lucky. And be a little more selective, OK?
I thought your insight and comments to One of Many Other women was right on time!!! I’ve recently gotten hooked on your column and look forward to it every week.
A long time ago, I had a fuck buddy who was engaged and living with his gf. He later married her, and has three kids with her, and is still married to her more than 20 years later. During the first few years of that 20 years, I was still fucking him. I was married at the time, so I didn’t worry much about it, but I’m sure I wasn’t the only one on the side that he had. Is their marriage happy? I don’t know. Did she know about it? I think she probably did. She told me not to tease him once when she caught me flirting with him at a party. Then she said that he already called out my name when they were having sex.
Ya know what kills me about this girl’s delusions? It’s that she’s imagining the fiance making better emotional choices than she does for herself.
It seems to me that her fantasy is that the fiance learns of the affair and breaks off the engagement. So, if the “man-whore” returns to the “good girl,” good girl wins. If the “man-whore” doesn’t return but is hurt by the breakup, “the good (vindictive) girl” still wins.
The problem is that that fantasy presupposes that the fiance isn’t doing precisely what the good girl has been doing for several years–making rationalizations or turning a blind eye to the reality of her relationships. I mean, c’mon, “good girl’s” been cheating with someone who she claims is a “friend” but who she also clearly holds in contempt (gotta love that) and, during that whole time, convincing herself that she is “good.” By what measure? (What a way to treat your friends–keeping them mired in drama and then pointing to that drama as evidence of their moral inferiority.)
Is there a psychological term for projecting onto your sexual competition the backbone you wish you had???
@26 — You’re bragging about that scuzzy history??? ewwww….
Here’s what’s going to happen with OOMOW:
She ain’t gonna say shit to anyone – other than whatever it takes for her to keep getting the FWB action. She is ultimately too chicken to either sabotage the upcoming marriage or walk away from the whole mess. I predict this because it is the easiest course of action for her. Sooner or later, the bride to be will be writing to Dan – or, God forbid, Abby.
Who wants to bet OOMOW doesn’t follow anyone’s good advice? She just wants to make herself feel better.
And the awful moaning noises most women make in porn is criminal. I want to hear sexy noise, but when they’re super-shrill and shrieking “oh, yoh, yoh” at the top of their voices or just sounding like they’re being subjected to uncomfortable medical procedures, it’s a dreadful turn-off. Mute.
For Twink Lover –
There are bi guys who will do that for you. My boyfriend is one of those “I like sleeping with men but can’t fall in love with them” bi guys. Which works out great for me, we have a great relationship, a great sex life, and he is more than happy to satisfy my need to see guys hooking up. Don’t worry, I do favors for him too (:
“But a while ago I discovered that while he was unfaithful to her, he had also been unfaithful to me.”
And there you have it.
There is no “faithful” in a FWB relationship. That’s what makes them FWB, and not simply a boyfriend or girlfriend. She wants to come off as open and GGG, but yeah, she’s either deluding herself or she’s a fully aware manipulator and hypocrite.
Dan, why do you recycle SL of the day to the weekly column? I wait eagerly for everything you write (or voice) especially the column and get really disapointed when I see that material already appeared/originated on SLOG.
I am sure you can find plenty of fresh material for the column from the thousands of emails you receive every day.
You answering someone has probably the same odds as winning the lottery so just make someone’s else’s day instead of the same person twice.
@32: Nice call. Bang on.
@26 – great anecdote. @28 – spoilsport much?
Great…now when I am singing along with The Grinch Who Stole Christmas I will be singing: Twink…Twank…Twunk!
Thanks again for improving my vocabulary. I was VERY recently wondering what a ‘former twink’ would be called, and twunk fits the bill, so to speak.
So what if OOMOW doesn’t have a relationship with the fiancée?
When the lack of information may markedly effect how someone proceeds and has the potential for painful consequences, it is part of our obligation to care for each other, to speak up…
– You dropped something.
– Your house is on fire.
– Isn’t that your kid?
– I’m calling from inside the house.
– Your fiancée’s dick appears to be in a lot of other women.
Certainly, it would be better if this information was always provided altruistically and not as part of some manipulative fantasy, but the option to make an informed choice still has it’s own intrinsic worth.
“Even though I knew he was dating someone else, we became friends-with-benefits several years ago. Because of his relationship (and the fact that he lives with her!), sometimes it felt like a booty call…”
Wow. Ya think?
Been there. It felt like a booty call because it was one. Those times when it didn’t feel like a booty call where when you were deluding yourself into thinking that you were The One He Really Cared For. As you now know, not only were you not TOHERCF, but he’s not even much of a friend. Walk away, feel lucky you finally wised up, and get over it.
Dear OOMOW;
The good girl is the one he is marrying. He has a madonna/whore complex, where only madonnas are good enough to marry, and whores are for screwing. Madonna may be utterly naive, or more likely she fully appreciates her position and has already told him she just doesn’t want to know about what else he does. Dan is spot on about looking at your real motives. And give up on building a relationship with him. In this game, you are a whore, not a madonna.
– Been There.
I agree with Dan that “Good Girl”‘s motives are way out of wack, but I also agree that she should inform the fiancee… Not out of penitence, but to protect the health and long term happiness of the fiancee. Ideally, she would give the cheating guy the ultimatum to tell his Fiancee in 24 hours, then call if he doesn’t, but that may not work.
I think saying that It’s ‘None of her business’ and she should ‘STFU’ is a cop-out. I don’t expect her to do the right thing, but I think the right thing is informing the fiancee – At that point, the fiancee has more information on which to decide whether to DTMFA.
I am surprised by the advice to OOMOW. It seems like the advice all the advice that Amy and Prudence and Caroline, et. al. would give. OOMOW paints herself as someone who has been cheated on, but I see no evidence that he has made a vow to her that he will only have one relationship on the side.
The surprise is that since Dan usually says monogamy is not a realistic choice for most couples, that with this advice he seems to take for granted that an assumption of monogamy is the default mode for heterosexual relationships. I say he’s not a cheater unless he has made a vow to ‘foresake all others’.
Never be the messenger about someone else’s infidelity. The messenger will always get shot.
No matter whether the couple breaks up or stays together, neither one of them will want to have anything to do with you again. Even if you’re blameless 9which OOMOW isn’t) you will still be a painful reminder.
I had a friend an abusive relationship w/guy. It ended. She said she worried about the next GF. I said she should contact the woman. She said No, she’d only think I was jealous. Which in this case it certainly sounds like OOMOW is.
I have to disagree w/Dan. She shouldn’t say anything to the fiance. She (OOMOW) has caused enough problems. (“good girl” my aunt fanny!). She should simply never talk to either one again. Period.
Hey Dan, you should hire me as your copy editor. I used to edit your column for the Anchorage Press, and I would never let you write “teh” vs. “the.” Also, way to stick it to OOMOW, it sounds like she wants to rock the boat a lot more than “warn the fiancee.”
“Because of his relationship (and the fact that he lives with her!), sometimes it felt like a booty call; other times, it felt like it was leading to something more.”
Jesus, OOMOW, this sounds exactly like a situation I just went through. Maybe I’m one of your Many Other Other Women. If so, do what I did: I told the fiancee, provided ample proof, and walked away. Was I vindictive? Sure. But it felt good. And you know you want to do it, too. Don’t pretend you’re doing this for her benefit, though. This isn’t a UN humanitarian mission. It’s all about you wanting him to pay for his shitty behavior.
However, don’t be surprised if they stick together (a week after my confession, I spotted the happy couple strolling arm-in-arm past the winter squash at the farmers’ market). She probably already knows about his extracurricular activities, OOMOW. For some women, having a man in their life, even if he’s a CPOS, is more important than having dignity.
I would like to point out that the above person wrote, “For some women, having a man in their life, even if he’s a CPOS, is more important than having dignity,” not 10 sentences after having written, “this sounds exactly like a situation I just went through.”
Just sayin’.
I just have to say, the illustration this week is great.
That’s why my signature is “Older But Not Any Wiser”, PinKisses. Get it?
OOMOW is like a theif who steals from someone who then is the victim of theft. She now wants to go to the police and report her stolen goods have been stolen from her. There is no doubt the fiancee is wrong but, OOMOW help to facilitate that wrong doing and now wants to “warn” the bride to be. GTFOH!!! As Black chruch folk like to say “what you do in the dark will always come to the light.” Long term affairs never end well and they always come back to bite you in the ass. Just ask Tiger Woods….lol
@38 – exactly. I don’t get the comments that say not to tell fiance because OOMOW doesn’t have the right to make life decisions for another woman. The fiance has a right to all the information so she can make the decision for herself.
OOMOW needs to STFU about the CPOS.
There are only two ways that the fiancee should find out about CPOS’s activities. Either CPOS tells her directly or CPOS screws up and leaves a trail that takes minimal detective work to find out he is a CPOS. This has the additional benefit of OOMOW’s fantasy of being the good girl intact should the fiancee catch CPOS with OOMOW; who can then play innocent woman who did not have a CPOS was married.
This is why it is SO much easier to be an HND.
OK, so the guy’s a douche, but OOMOW is also a douche for sleeping with a douche whose in a relationship.
Oldest rule in the book: If s/he’ll cheat with you, s/he’ll cheat on you.
@12 Google “slash” or “slash fanfic”. There’s a whole world of Pretty Male Porn out there for you to enjoy, much of it of “straight acting” men falling into gay relationships.
“In women, a high sex drive is associated with in-
creased attraction to both men and women.” (Gender, Nature, and Nurture, Richard A. Lippa, 2006, 2007).
“Twunk” is alreay being used to describe being lucky/unlucky enough to get sexed-up by a twink.
As in “having been twunk”, “getting twunk after the bar” etc.,…
Also, the past tense of “twinking” someone.
“When Justin got into a hissy and moved out, taking most of my clothes and all my Xanax, I realized I’d been twunk.”
@42 “The surprise is that since Dan usually says monogamy is not a realistic choice for most couples, that with this advice he seems to take for granted that an assumption of monogamy is the default mode for heterosexual relationships. I say he’s not a cheater unless he has made a vow to ‘foresake all others’.”
You seem to be confusing default setting with “ideal setting” or “correct setting”.
Until we have a major cultural shift, because most people expect monogamy from people they are dating sexually, it is cheating to not provide that, unless if a different understanding is reached. That is to say, exactly as you did, that monogamy is the default.
Now, if the relationship is set up outside these norms, such as by not actually dating (just booty calls) or by becoming the “other”, then the default wouldn’t hold.
OOMOW is probably the least sympathetic character ever to write into Savage Love. Seriously girl, your head is way up your ass.
Man, I thought I was the only woman that got off on gay porn. I could care less if the men involved were twinks or bears, I love love love to watch men get it on. It is my secret kink, the one thing I have not been able to share with any men that I have dated, no matter how open were with each other. I am especially turned on by anything bareback. I think it is the taboo aspect of it all…..
Oh well, good to know that this hetero female is not alone!
“@12 Google “slash” or “slash fanfic”. There’s a whole world of Pretty Male Porn out there for you to enjoy, much of it of “straight acting” men falling into gay relationships.”
@55, oh I’m well familiar with slash fiction;) I was a connoisseur of the Harry Potter slash world for a couple of years, which did have a number of nice “straight but lets experiment” stories and art (ironically I never liked Harry/Draco, its most iconic pairing!). Still, I would love to see a video with that premise, with a little more verisimilitude in it than the average porn. I need to imagine it’s something that could happen in real life 😉
I’ll add a voice to the whole “straight girl loves watching two guys” thing. It is about 85% of this straight girl’s fantasy life. I’ve always felt horrid about it…particularly when it devolves into thinking about my poor straight boyfriend getting a BJ from a hot buddy.
For all you gals, straight or gay, who get off on the idea of two guys together, try samhainpublishing.com and dreamspinnerpress.com. They are M/M erotic romance sites, with books/short stories mostly written by women for women. Your head will have to supply the visuals though (which is sometimes preferable).
@59, 61 and 62; myself (and a few girlfriends I’ve talked to) prefer watching two guys get it on over hetero porn. I doubt it’s an odd thing for hetero girls to enjoy. I mean, we like penis … it shouldn’t come as a surprise!
#63 – it’s not just a hetero girl thing. A good number of lesbians like gay male porn too. Human sexuality, especially female sexuality, is very complex. It is difficlt to determine why people find certain things arousing, and different people may like the same thing for differnt reasons. But my best guess on this particular kink is that, subconsiously, it makes women feel safer. A guy getting it on with another guy is not likely to rape a woman, and knowing that allows women to enjoy male sexuality without fear. Just my theory and may not be a universal truth. The more interesting question is why it is considered so strange for women to like watching men together when it a complete cliche for straight men to like to watch women together.
Why does OOMOW’s letter seem to read like a TV episode of All My Children?
I’m with @3: Leave his sorry ass, don’t look back, and pity his clueless, also-cheated-on wife-to-be.
And then get over it.
Dan, you were too hard on the so-called CPOS. Believe it or not, there are plenty of het guys who can love one woman with all their heart, all their souls, all their wallets and all their unpaid-bodyguard-lackey-and-factotum masculinity, and still enjoy the odd side order of sweet rumpty. Just sayin’.
The Good Girl? Yeah, right. Until you started having sex. Maybe right up to the 8th grade. Good girls don’t make fuck-buddies out of other women’s men.
Re: OOMOW –
Speaking as the piece-of-ass-on-the-side for a married man that likes to get his kink on with me because wifey is uber-vanilla…
I know it’s morally wrong to be fucking around with a married man. However, when said married man didn’t tell me up front when we started hooking up that he was engaged, any guilt I might have had about the situation went right out the window. Sure, once I found out, I could have said no dice, but the sex is good and I know he’s getting his freak on elsewhere besides my bedroom too. I’ve not been the dishonest one in the situation, thus I see myself as one of the lesser of all involved evils. She’ll either wise up to what he’s doing or she won’t – I sure as shit won’t be getting involved enough to tip her off, as it’s ultimately between them, IMO.
Until then, as morally wrong as it might be, I’ll continue to enjoy my infrequently hot and kinky sexings. :3
…and enough with the offers of editing. “I’m an editor and I found a typo!” Jesus. These guys do a bitchin job getting this column to us early every Tuesday night. Step off, for crissakes.
OOMW is not a “Good girl”, she’s just an “Easy girl”. But that’s ok, as long as she accepts it. Mingling into other peoples relationships is not ok, however, unless the parts are aware of it: that’s the difference between cheating and not cheating. So, if she’s been acting as one of the cheating instruments of Mr. CPOS, why so suddenly is she interested into saving the other girl from a failed marriage? If she hasn’t been capable of confronting her about this during all these years, it is not her business anymore. OOMOW is not part of the solution, she’s part of the problem. If she wants to come out to the cheated victim because she wants to clean her own act and be a real good girl from now on, go ahead, do it. If not, she should remain from disclosing that information to her so-called-friend. She’ll soon learn the truth herself and perhaps she’ll be the one teaching a lesson to Mr. CPOS, who seems to need a really good one, BTW. My marriage ended (partly) because my ex was cheating on me with a CPOS and I was tented to tell his wife. However, I restrained myself from doing it because it stopped being my business once I decided to part my way. It would have been revenge, unsweetened and dirty revenge. In the end, I know CPOS’ wife has known all along, only she doesn’t love herself enough to get out of there. She’s the typical CPOS-addict-victim and doesn’t know any better. Who am I to bring more misery to her life? She would end up hating me and still remain in her marriage, you bet.
Both of you, Dan. Both of you. Try that again: both of you. Not “the both of you.”
@59, 61
You girls are WEIRD for being ashamed of this. Seriously, what’s the big deal? Gay porn for straight girls seems like the most normal thing in the world. Two dicks are better than one. Duh. What, society is down with accepting two girls making out(guys have no shame about admitting this), but two guys doing the same is *gasp* taboo??
Seems to me it all stems from societal homophobia against gay men. Don’t fucking buy into that shit. All my boyfriends know about my passion for the GP and accept that my hard drive will be permanently stacked with seancody.com. They either get with the program or they’re gone.
Thank God OOMOW’s ex and his girlfriend are getting married. Now they can be some of those great straight married role models that Loveschild is always talking about.
@72: Agreed. It’s like the old, old cliche of straight men getting hot over lesbian porn — kind of makes sense that straight women would feel the same about gay porn.
@59: Yeah, it’s not really a “kink.” It’s like a straight guy describing his love of girl-girl kisses or his secret FFM threesome fantasy as “kinky.” Check out the internet — we’ve got everyone from twelve-year-old girls (I’ve met ’em) and soccer moms writing out super-gay fantasies, often for years.
(Technically, I know you’re perfectly correct … but every day we’re redefining “kinky” means.)
Wow, I loved hearing Dan give it to OOMOW with both barrels. “Even though I knew he was dating someone else, we became friends-with-benefits several years ago.” And she expected fidelity from this guy?!?!? Shame on her! I have met people who married the person who was cheating on their spouse during their “courtship” (affair). When they married the cheater, and were subsequently cheated on, I haven’t had an outpouring of sympathy. How can you ever trust someone like that? I’m a non-monogamist, which is why exclusivity (“forsake all others”) was left out of our marriage vows! Don’t try to get a tiger to change it’s stripes – accept it for what it is!
Thank you very much for the heads-up on the Playgirl website, Dan! I had indeed been unaware of its existence! I just wish that “sexy” wasn’t ONLY defined as “between 18 and 28, with no body hair”. If I see evidence of some variety, I’ll join the site. And if anyone has recommendations for where to find pictures of hot dudes… I’m all ears!
I think The Good Girl is conflicted about her emotions, for sure, but I don’t believe she is as self-serving as Dan is making her out to be. She tested new waters in an unfamiliar, entirely off-limits pool (cliche, I know), and now she’s trying to apply her normal “good girl” ethics to the situation. If I were her, there’s no way I’d confront the bride-to-be. Just walk away—fast—and never look back. If the guy ever contacts her again, she should tell him what she wrote to Dan, and never talk to him again.
I’m not sure OOMOW is a reliable commentator about CPOS’s behavior. It could be that in fact he is an HND who has been upfront with his fiance who was okay with him sleeping around. It could be that he decided to break up with OOMOW because despite his honesty about what he wanted their relationship to be (FWB), she was becoming increasingly possessive. It could be that OOMOW just had fantasies about making him her own and mentally twisted his honesty into her own dishonest fantasy future relationship. Unless there is more to her letter than got published, I don’t think anybody really knows whether he is a CPOS or HND. It could be she goes to talk to the fiance and basically gets told “Yeah, so what?”
Just a shot in the dark:
Sorry, ‘good girls’ would write this sort of ‘pay attention to me’ letter. Good girls do not get themselves in this situation to begin with; if by accident they did, they would move on, embarrassed and ashamed. No doubt having some previous relationship issues, this girl’s delusional fantasies of ‘homewrecking’ the upcoming nuptials seem to point to the fact that she sees herself and CPOS ultimately winding up as a viable couple – too bad there’s still one last obstacle in the way (but she’s easy enough to get rid of, right?).
Unfortunately, OOMOW doesn’t realize that if this was the case, CPOS wouldn’t have put her in the back seat to begin with. She doesn’t explain the context of their romances either – drunk? Was she overly forceful? Why can’t she find her own man, and instead relies on preying on other happily involved men? Sorry, I’m not buying this guise of ‘goodness’ – in essence she is no better than he, if not worse, because he realized it was a flash in the pan, and has most likely reformed his ways (maybe their previous relationship recently got much more serious), whereas her pettiness remains. Sorry, this is not Hollywood – bursting in on the wedding and screaming infidelity will not get you the man, it will get you branded as the crazy, delusional homewrecker that you are. The excuse of “not wanting her to get hurt” is ridiculous. If this were true, you wouldn’t have cheated with him in the first place.
TLDR: Go find yourself another CPOS; there’s lots available. Let this one move on and drop your holier than thou attitude – it’s sickening.
Wow, this week it’s all about me, isn’t it? I’m an editor (will refrain), I am cheating and I love gay porn. My FWB isn’t married but practically lives with his girlfriend of five years. I’ve never met her, never will, and have no interest in her ever finding out about me. I’ve been sleeping with her boyfriend for thirteen years (except for four years when I was married). We are good friends and I don’t care what he does when he’s not with me. One reason he won’t marry her (she wants to) is he knows he will cheat. He loves her to death but she’s not a big fan of sex.
And then the porn. Another reason I prefer it to heterosexual porn is that it’s often (not always) more consensual-seeming. Hetero porn always comes across like the woman is being used. And yes, fake. Women coming when the guy hasn’t done anything except plunge away.
Am I ashamed of likeing gay porn? Not. I showed some of my stuff to FWB above one evening, and he started getting hard and told me not to tell anyone (laughing at himself). If you show your BFs/husbands “bi” MMF threesomes, they can always claim they’re looking at the girl ; )
Fantastic advice for the “good girl.” She needs to tell the chick herself, and count herself lucky to be away from the POS.
SOMEONE needs to tell the clueless (maybe) fiance about the CPOS so she can be tested for STDs. Duh.
Amen on the Star Trek episode reference, #14.
I get chills every time he dresses down Ensign Crusher. It’s a high point of the series. (Plus it sets up the final disposition of Westley later in the series when he “defects”….
Dan, do you remember, years back, you had a friend writing an article about women [straight, gay, etc] who watched and enjoyed gay porn? I remember, because I contributed to the survey, but never heard about it again [and I’ve deleted that email account, alas]. What happened to it?
this column is good because it’s in stark contrast with the illusions on tv.
@82 I know, right!? Whenever I read one of these letters I try to put myself in the position of ALL the people involved and ask myself, “What do I want/need/feel/fear etc?” If I were the fiancee I would DEFINITELY DEFINITELY DEFINITELY want to know if my future husband was a shitheel who was going to eventually infect me with HPV or HIV or herpes or even just NGU.
The health and emotional well-being of the innocent bystander is the primary priority in a situation like this. I can’t believe people would just let this poor woman walk right into a bad scene without giving her the benefit of making an INFORMED decision. If the fiancee knows, decides to forgive, and THEN gets a disease – well – then it’s HER responsibility.
I’m really confused about the first letter. How can a “friend with benefits” be unfaithful to you, when he’s already cheating on you. Did you have a “monogamous friend with benefits, except that relationship that I have” contract?
What the fuck does that even mean?
OMG, wouldn’t it be awesome if Levi Johnson realized he was really gay? Not simply because of the “political implications,” but because it would totally make me feel better about finding him cute! As a 30-ish, urban, Ivy-educated, fiscal-conservative, East Coast progressive–my womb is horrified by my growing attraction to pretty-boy, self-described redneck-types. If I can sustain the fantasy of them fucking each other, instead of me, I might make it over my sexual peak without any accidents;).
oomows a dingbat skank.
“and someone really ought to clue her in before the wedding.”
I witnessed a similar situation with a male friend who proposed to his LT g/friend, she said she’d go away to family to weekend to think it over. he calls up old flame/part time lover, and has a weekend sex-athon with her. LT comes back says “Yes”.
we all thought we should alert his new fiancée to his behavior but keep it zipped. AND… they have now been happily married for 24 years with 2 children, and still very much together.
leave things alone. not your business.
@88- He’d have to be on the bottom though- homophobic pretty-boy rednecks make the hottest bottoms;)
The certainty is that OOMOW needs to get out and sever all ties forever, but whether she outs CPOS is something she nees to decide for herself. I’ve done it both ways, and it’s definitely depended on the exact situation for me.
It’s easy to justify outing the CPOS if you don’t stay in a relationship with him, especially if you out yourself to the fiancee to make it a little more likely to remain permanent (of course, changing addresses, phone numbers, and emails will also be best).
But men like this tend to be very charming and convincing and have an amazing ability to keep sucking women back in to their manipulative psychodramas, so it probably wouldn’t end his current engagement anyway. Plus they have some weird compulsion to keep the drama rolling, almost like they’re trying to inflict as much pain as possible and then try to use their charms draw the hurt-ees back in. When the worst CPOS I’ve ever known finally decided to get engaged to “the woman of his dreams”, he invited to his very next party every single woman he’d slept with during the 4 months of his current relationship, as well as his most recent ex before that, who he’d scarred very badly. I made sure not to arrive before she left, and we all ruined his day by NOT making any scenes while she was there. After she left the party we bashed him around the chiminea, and I still remember the creepy look of satisfaction on his face while we did it, as if our hatred and abuse were the only ay he could feel loved.
So the only real downside to outing him is that it will probably feed some weird need he probably has to feel like crap, to treat people like crap, and them charm them back.
My mouth dropped when OOMOW said she wanted to tell the fiance about her CPOS. What a colossal disaster of a “good girl” wannabe! I thought I’d heard every kind of self-delusional send up in my 62 years, but that made me hit the floor. Girl, if you’re reading this – leave everyone the f–k alone, and do a little introspective self-examination. You are seriously, seriously f–ked up – much more so than the cheating man, in my opinion – though he’s obviously no angel. Get help!
RE: Twunks…
I don’t have any suggestions on a word for gay-objectification of physical types.
BUT!
I think the term “Fluffer Nutter” is a phrase that is just *dying* for a gay-slang definition.
So Savage Love readers, just what _is_ a “Fluffer Nutter”? A kind of sex act? A physical type? Something more???
The responsibility for cheating lies with the cheaters. They are only ones who can control their actions. No one needs to carry the responsibility for the cheater’s significant others’ feelings, nor the responsibility to protect those feelings should they maybe be hurt because of the cheating… Maybe if it was a matter of life and death, but over fidelity? Give me a break. There’s way too much to worry about in this world. Maybe that’s a cop out, but for all I know the CPOS’s fiance met him while he was with someone else. Who the hell knows, who the hell cares? Even though I tend to be monogamous, people make way to big a deal over getting a little side action.
*another hetero gal who loves loves loves the M/M!!!*
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe a Twunk isn’t an older Twink. It could be a Twink who is also a bit of a hunk.
OOMOW, do what I did: say nothing and sever all ties immediately. You owe it to yourself, to the fiance, and also to the CPOS. If she ever found out (through you or someone else) you would in all likelihood be persona non grata with them, as well as any friends you share. I cheated with a friend’s wife for a year before I realized she would never leave her husband. I ended it, then ceased communicating with her. I won’t lie and tell you I got over her right away. I had to cut off most of our friends to ensure I didn’t blurt out my story one night in a fit of jealous douche-baggery. Yeah, it sucked losing all those friends (which I would’ve lost anyway if they found out), but thermodynamics teaches us you can never get something for nothing. So cut them loose and leave them to heaven. The sooner you have this situation and these people in your rearview mirror, the sooner you’ll heal.
OOMOW, do what I did: say nothing and sever all ties immediately. You owe it to yourself, to the fiance, and also to the CPOS. If she ever found out (through you or someone else) you would in all likelihood be persona non grata with them, as well as any friends you share. I cheated with a friend’s wife for a year before I realized she would never leave her husband. I ended it, then ceased communicating with her. I won’t lie and tell you I got over her right away. I had to cut off most of our friends to ensure I didn’t blurt out my story one night in a fit of jealous douche-baggery. Yeah, it sucked losing all those friends (which I would’ve lost anyway if they found out), but thermodynamics teaches us you can never get something for nothing. So cut them loose and leave them to heaven. The sooner you have this situation and these people in your rearview mirror, the sooner you’ll heal.
OOMOW, do what I did: say nothing and sever all ties immediately. You owe it to yourself, to the fiance, and also to the CPOS. If she ever found out (through you or someone else) you would in all likelihood be persona non grata with them, as well as any friends you share. I cheated with a friend’s wife for a year before I realized she would never leave her husband. I ended it, then ceased communicating with her. I won’t lie and tell you I got over her right away. I had to cut off most of our friends to ensure I didn’t blurt out my story one night in a fit of jealous douche-baggery. Yeah, it sucked losing all those friends (which I would’ve lost anyway if they found out), but thermodynamics teaches us you can never get something for nothing. So cut them loose and leave them to heaven. The sooner you have this situation and these people in your rearview mirror, the sooner you’ll heal.
If OOMOW thinks enough of her fwb’s fiance to warn her that he cheats he should never have fucked him in the first place. Never hook up with someone involved with someone you care about. You owe your friend enough respect not to fuck her man.
I have no issue about being with attached guys because I understand the situation before I get in. If she is not my friend then only he owes her something. I don’t.
But ratting him out later is just bitchy. You clearly don’t really care about her and you really only want to destroy his relationship.
@45 pretty sure he wrote “teh” on purpose and that he already has an editor… but that’s just a shot in the dark.
And if you were the fiancee, wouldn’t you want someone to tell you before you marry this asshole? I know I would.
I also had a relationship with a married man but in the end the joke was on me. I never had the urge to tell his wife who I used to see every morning on my way to work. I don’t think she knows until now. I walked away. I have hurt as I loved him however I know that I should have known better: it is true that love is blind. He was never going to leave her, I was the toy, I wanted everything yet he could give me nothing.
I have learnt my lesson and now apply a simple rule: if he is taken don’t take him. Period.
OOMOW probably didn’t expect that she would come to care about her fuck buddy but she obviously lost the game; she ought to keep her mouth shut and walk away with what is left of her dignity as I did. There is nothing else she can do.
You know what “Good/ Bad/ Needy Whore/ Girl”?, Just get yourself a tub of ice cream, rent “The Apartment” (with Jack Lemmon and Shirley MacLaine),and move on with your life. Because really. Where are you going with this? He doesn’t love you the best and if he wanted to be with you he would be. Seriously, for a girl in your position, that is the best movie ever. Shirly McLaine ends up getting what she thought she wanted kind of by default… anyhow, it just shows that you don’t really want that shit anyway. It will also give you something to relate to. I know when you are in a relationship that is non conventional(bullshit) relating can be a hard thing to do.
Hey Dan,
Love your columns. I started writing one for the new ANTITWINK.com website based here in NYC. Actually, we are not “anti” anyone, it’s meant to be ironic. See Mission Statement for more on that…
Hope you get a chance to check out my latest addition “FREE SEX: Peace, Love, and Hard Cock” here:
http://www.antitwink.com/free-sex-peace-…
Thanks and keep up all the amazing work!
x
Pony
@ 38, 82, and @ 86, and others likeminded, I COMPLETELY AGREE!
And for the DISTURBING number of people saying she should NOT inform the fiance, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!? This is a serious health issue! There is no guarantee that this fellow uses condoms or has his partners tested. None of you have made even remotely compelling arguments for this woman to possibly contract a potentially life-long disease. (Just for the record, THERE ISN’T ONE.) What if she doesn’t have health insurance? She should suffer and die from a debilitating illness for lack of affordable healthcare? I DON”T have insurance, which is the #1 reason I have made ALL my partners get tested and show me the results.
Where is your decency? Where is your common-sense? @38’s line of reasoning is completely correct; if you saw a burning house, or a child being kidnapped, or a blind person about to be hit by a speeding car, YOU WOULD SAY/DO SOMETHING (jesus fucking h. crisco I hope so), so why does that concern stop when it comes to cheating!? You all know damn well you would want to know if it were you, fucking morally bankrupt hypocrites!
Savage,
You swear too much.
Savage,
You swear too much.
Although I felt that what you said to this “good girl” was a bit mean. I think that you said exactly the right things to this girl that she needed to hear. She does need to tell the fiance what is going on and apologize. And then just leave this cheater behind. I hate men and women like these who do such things to other people. It is just so wrong.
Funny, I always considered a gay boy from as small a town as Wasilla, AK a twank.
“good girls” sleep with guys who have live-in girlfriends/fiancees and aren’t in an open situation? Is it opposite day all of a sudden?
I’m annoyed by the people who think the fiancee either knows she has a CPOS on her hands or is too invested in the upcoming marriage to dump him. People don’t always know, and some of them are genuinely naive and trusting. Especially if they would never dream of cheating. People always make the mistake of assuming their beloveds share their moral code.
I’m glad Dan wants the fiancee to know, and putting myself in her place, I wouldn’t care who I heard it from. It would be painful but necessary either way. In fact, I’d much rather hear it from this crazy clown he’s been fucking, so I could look at her long and hard and think, “This is who he cheats on me with. This idiot who acts like we’re both sisters in victimhood.” I wouldn’t want to hear his prettied-up version.
@21 and @45. Ok, ok, we’re getting off your lawn already. Geez gramps, settle down.
Seriously though: You’re making us old fucks look bad. Bone up on teh internet: urbandictionary.com is your new thesaurus, professor. Bonus points for reading the entire series at http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?… please note a) the shirt our hero wears 2) the dates on the story, as it lets you in on just how fawking behind the times you are .
@51 – how bout tell the CPOS he needs to come clean OR you’re going to tell the WIFE to BE? he can do it right (or she can do it harsh)? Set a deadline. @14 is on to what I’m talking about. But talk to HIM direct. Face to face. You know, like an honest grown up might…? “hey, being fuck buddies was honestly great, I’ll really miss you: you are of course being honest with Mary, right, especially since you’re on the cusp of a legal vow of life together?”
Maybe Mary’s into it. What the fawk do we know.
@90, to quote mustseetv, clearly, “they were on a break”.
@94, Been done already. you should also try teh urbandictionary
Twink Lover –
You need some Radical Faerie friends. Faeries tend to romp at the far left end of sexual freedom and a lot of them are young and adorable. I’ve been at Faerie parties where boys (ie youngish men) were messing around with one another in heaps and piles, and girls were present, and nobody really much cared who was watching whom. As much as I love and appreciate Dan, he’s made it clear he doesn’t like sex parties or sex clubs – so it’s no surprise his advice to you omitted the opportunities you might find at parties or gatherings.
Who cares what OOMOW’s motivations are. Even if she has no purpose other than revenge, I support that. If CPOS doesn’t want someone telling his fiancee about his affairs, then he shouldn’t have any affairs. He can’t control other people, only his own actions. OOMOW has the power of knowledge here and trying to slut-shame her into keeping his secret just benefits him. I say mess up their kitchen all you like.
@116 The whole idea of “revenge” is ridiculous! Revenge for what?! The guy “cheating”? I feel like that is rather hypocritical for the cheating, piece of shit that OOMOW is! As a non-monogamous gal who had a (so-called) woman try to persuade her man to leave her, I can only say this : people get what they deserve. Even if it takes a while. OOMOW, if you’re reading, just get out now, go nurse your wounds, and get therapy, for heaven’s sakes. Or rename your CPOS so-called “friend” – I have a suggestion – call him “Tiger.”
I was the primary girlfriend of a CPOS once. I eventually figured it out on my own and dumped him, but was pissed off to later find that several close friends knew and never told me. Fuck my “feelings,” I can get over hurt feelings but not an incurable STD. I might have still slept with the CPOS anyway, but I would have used condoms had I known I was sharing.
Right, she’s a hypocrite, and he’s a cheater, and for some reason that means he gets off scot free and she’s supposed to be burdened with all the consequences here, because she’s bad too. Well he’s bad too, and since we’re all about ganging up on the guilty ones, why not tell everyone about him. Why is everyone so interested in protecting him from the consequences of his own behavior, but telling the woman in this situation that its all her fault and she should carry all the fall-out, I don’t get it.
clarity&static All you deserve is being on the receiving end, but then maybe you already have been since you come accross as bitter and hard. Are you perhaps seeking revenge for what was done to you? The problem with being involved with a cheater is that you are denying the basic human dignity of an innocent party. I personally don’t need that kind of bad karma.
I’m also a little on the fence about your advice to OOMOW, Dan. That letter was like a cold shock of water, bringing back memories I’d prefer to have forgotten.
I had a long-distance “friend with benefits,” once. We had known each other a long time as friends, through his single days, his marriage, and then his divorce. After years of acquaintance, he invited me on a weekend retreat, where the relationship became physical and intense. He stayed in Idaho, I went back to NYC. I thought we’d reached a new level, but I didn’t hear much from him except when he would come to NYC on business. Those visits were always hot and heavy.
I knew he’d met someone, who moved to Kentucky with him when his job changed, but it didn’t stop our NYC rendezvous. I felt pangs of betrayed sisterhood, but whenever we were together it just felt right. I figured she had to fend for herself.
Then, about 14 years ago, he made another trip to the city, in which he said that he regretted not pursuing our relationship after that first intense weekend. He said he might marry the woman in Kentucky after all, because he felt like it was time to settle down. I felt like this was my one shot to make a stand.
After he left, I wrote him a letter, saying I would move to Kentucky if need be. He told me he’d get back to me. I called his father, with whom I was friendly, trying to enlist him on my side. And THAT, my friends, is when I learned that my friend-with-benefits had not only already gotten married, but had recently become the proud father of a baby girl.
This was classic DTMFA. I called him, tore him a new asshole, and never spoke to him again. I don’t feel sorry for his wife, but I do feel sorry for his daughter.
It never occurred to me to try to contact the wife. It wouldn’t have mattered what I’d said, anyway. The guy was a top-rated salesman with a golden tongue. He would have bullshitted his way out of it.
I can’t imagine what could be gained from OOMOW telling the fiancee. Dan is right: she’s looking for pieces to pick up for herself, although why she wants this 24-karat piece of shit is beyond my understanding. The fiancee–just like my guy’s wife–is probably practiced at self-deception.
Let it go. Just let it all go.
the young lady who said that she a hetro. Can you please give her my e-mail address. My name is Milton Harvey. I would love to talk with her as a friend. Because I know how she feel. My e-mail address ie whitebucky@yaho.com
@klg19,
“I can’t imagine what could be gained from OOMOW telling the fiancee.”
Really? Really!? You seriously cannot imagine ONE good reason to tell the fiancee!?
Please read #118 for clarification on what could be gained.
You are seriously coming across as a profoundly selfish person; after reading your story I was amazed that you:
a.) Didn’t feel sorry for the other person involved
b.) Expect readers to feel sorry for YOU
This is ridiculous, and one of the most pathetic attempts at justification for self-serving behavior I’ve ever come across. Even YOU felt betrayed upon learning that he had misled you by already being married and having had a kid, yet you are completely unable to put yourself in the position of the cheated-on!? Are you kidding me!? DANG. I suggest taking off your specific brand of blinders and viewing reality as it truly is, and not merely how you want it to be. Polyamorous relationships people; open, HONEST, look into it.
I was a cheater and I got tested for STDS/HIV before sleeping with my girlfriend again. I also realized what a horrible mistake I’d made and completely regret it and stopped cheating.
If the other woman had come forward and told my gf, I would have been devastated.
His relationship is not her business. She should stay out of it and stop assuming that she understands his reasons for getting married. Obviously she has a history of not being able to read his intentions if she didn’t expect him to cheat on her. Who’s to say she’s right now?
lol @ n00bs thinking teh is a typo
@ 79: Don’t call this guy a happily involved man. If he was happy, he wouldn’t be cheating.
d
If a twunk is an older twink, what does that make a HUNK?
Hey Dan: How about an occasional all-queer column or podcast? I know the straights are in the majority and have a lot of problems, but once in a while it would be nice to have something, like, totally queer, dude.
The leotard cheater above reminds me of how one of Tiger’s girls coming out with her story once she realized she wasn’t the only other woman. Love your last paragraph to Levi. and to parismo – Dan used to write a gay column…I thought it was called Savage Love 2.0 but a brief search just now didn’t turn anything up
I tend to hang around with a bisexual, non-monogamous, and kinky crowd, so if a girl I know DOESN’T get off on watching two guys going at it, she’s an exception. Twink Lover shouldn’t have any difficulty finding guys who will indulge her fetish – her only big challenge will be working up the nerve to ask. 🙂
@68
“Speaking as the piece-of-ass-on-the-side for a married man that likes to get his kink on with me because wifey is uber-vanilla…”
Geesh! Grow up, grow up, grow up and more, grow up. No, his wife isn’t “uber-vanilla.” HE is another man doing ye olde “whore/madonna” thing and he wouldn’t DREAM of asking his wife to do all the kinky shit YOU get up to because he married a woman he can idolise and consider “pure” and he will fuck all the other dirty, whores of the world. DO NOT delude yourself into thinking his wife is some prude and he’s the poor man who has been denied a fulfilling sex life. One can only surmise you must be quite inexperienced because it has been years since I’ve heard ANY woman actually come out and attempt to rationalise some tedious man’s “poor me” talk to explain her low self esteem issues.
No, honey, his wife isn’t “uber-vanilla” and before you get too deep into the other big question that must be drumming around in that head of yours: “no, he isn’t going to leave her for you either!”
Now, you know and even though you may never read this because it’s in the archives, maybe someone else may read it and the next time they hear, “my wife and I don’t get along and she is a bit old fashioned when it comes to sex….” they will KNOW that it is just a line of shit that men tell women (girls, more like) in order to cheat on their wives because their wives are “pure” and they wouldn’t dare be true to themselves and actually marry the woman they DO want to have sex with and spend the rest of his life with. I can almost guarantee and I would certainly bet on the fact that he hasn’t even asked or broached the subject of doing something different in his and his wife’s sex life. he chose her for a reason and now instead of being a grown up, he’s cheating. Pathetic, to say the very least.
Also, the fact that you referred to her as “wifey” speaks volumes about your bitterness. She is not “wifey.” She is the woman he chose to marry and he thinks of her as better than YOU.
Do yourself a favour and go and find a man who respects you and if you can’t find that man, then be alone. I sincerely hope you DO read this and instead of firing off some dumbass “rebuttal” you look in the mirror and say, “actually, that person is right and I am being used by some creep who doesn’t have the gumption to fuck his wife like a HUSBAND is meant to fuck his WIFE.”
Now, you know.
@ 124 – Seriously, dude? Poor baby. So, you got off lucky. Your situation has nothing to do with the next “drama king” who wants to live to marry one woman, cheat and fuck another. If this woman wants to get her own back, then it is HER perogative to do so.
In YOUR case, just be thankful no one ever came forward and good for you that you had enough sense to get tested but guess what? There are millions of men who couldn’t give a flying shit about their partner’s (in the dark to their shenanigans) sexual health and will fuck everything that moves and gladly go home and dip the wick with their wives.
Don’t you dare project your “luck” onto someone else’s experience.
Besides, what IF this dipshit HAS caught something? Do you really think HE is going to rush out and “mend his ways” and be the responsible party who gets tested for STDs?
Whatever, dude. Once again, you got lucky but it was your guilt that got you to go and get tested and YOU, my friend, are unique, indeed.
This guy’s fiance would most likely welcome (who knows for sure?) the information that tells her that her soon to be husband has most likely brought a disease home and also can’t keep his dick in his trousers.
Why is this numb-nuts even bothering to get married? Stay single for fuck’s sake!