I am a 23-year-old male who
has been in a relationship with a great woman for four years now. She
is an amazing person, and we oftentimes talk about marriage. The issue
is this: I have a foot fetish and she is fully aware of it. She doesn’t
like the idea of me kissing her feet or indulging my fetish in any way.
We have sex quite often, and I’ve always let it slide that she doesn’t
want any part of my fetish. I don’t know what to do, because I’m at a
stage in my sexual growth where I need to experience my fetish. I’m
getting mixed advice from different people and I just want a straight
answer. The sex we have is amazing, but I would enjoy it so much more
if I could act on my desires once in a while.

Sexually Frustrated Fetishist

Here’s a straight answer: Your amazing
girlfriend is an amazingly selfish lover, and I’m amazed that you’ve
put up with her bullshit for as long as you have. A foot fetish is not
uncommon or outrageous; as fetishes go, SFF, yours is the least taxing
for a nonkinky partner. It’s not like you’re into shit or choking or
Christian side hugs. Any amazing woman who truly loved you would regard
indulging you as a no-brainer.

Share time: I have a good friend who’s not
kinky at all—unless you count being gay—and he’s a runner
who goes for long runs every Saturday morning. When he gets home, he
handcuffs his boyfriend to a chair in his kitchen, duct-tapes one of
his sweaty sneakers over the boyfriend’s face, and leaves him there
while he has breakfast. My friend—who came to me for advice when
his boyfriend confessed his fetish—isn’t really into guys with
sneakers duct-taped to their faces. But it gets his lover off, and
isn’t that what lovers are for?

Your lover has had things—she’s had
you—on her terms for four years, SFF, which means you’re going to
have to play the breakup card. It’s the only leverage you have. Tell
her that if she can indulge your fetish—happily and
regularly—and take some pleasure in giving you pleasure, she
might be “the one.” If she can’t or won’t, she obviously isn’t. (Not
that “the one” is anything other than a destructive myth, but for the
sake of winning this argument, go ahead and use it.)

Finally, SFF, don’t let the
girlfriend—or anyone else—tell you that you’re threatening
to end this relationship over something trivial. Sexual fulfillment is
important, particularly if your relationship is exclusive. And the
“triviality” of your kink cuts both ways: If your kink is so trivial,
why not just indulge you then? And in a long-term
relationship—or a marriage—one partner’s sexual selfishness
and another’s sexual frustration rarely prove trivial over the long
haul. They’re more often grounds for divorce.

I am a 35-year-old partnered gay man,
but I’ve been having an online conversation with a married bisexual man
that has become an ongoing game of sexual dares. It’s a safe form of
sexual adventurism for both of us. None of our dares has involved
sexual contact with another person, but some of our dares have begun to
involve other people at the edges. For example, we’ve posted ads to
Craigslist as submissives and responded to some of the replies from
dominant men. None of these interactions with third parties will result
in actual contact. It feels a little like we are exploiting the
“flakes” aspect of Craigslist, i.e., it’s common to hear from someone a
few times after making contact on Craigslist and then never hear from
them again. But it also feels a little like we are using these folks.
Is this expansion of our game to involve other people ethical?

Concerned About Harming Craigslist
Fellas

P.S. This letter is itself part of a
dare. If you publish it and include a dare in the reply, I will have to
fulfill that dare.

The expansion of your game to Craigslist
will annoy those guys on CL who are looking for actual contact, CAHCF,
but as those guys amount to something less than 0.02 percent of the men
trawling Craigslist at any given moment, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Everyone knows that CL is overrun with flakes and game players and
picture collectors; the odds that the “dominant men” you’ve chatted
with on CL are interested in actual contact are pretty damn slim. (Guys
interested in real-time BDSM play are likelier to be lurking on
Recon.com or in your local hardware
store.) So post at will.

P.S. I dare you to go to www.tinyurl.com/ye3otsh and take
the pledge.

I’m a straight guy in my late 20s. I
have a girlfriend of several years whom I live with and I love very
much. I just read your most recent column, in which you used the
acronyms HND (honest nonmonogamous dude) and CPOS (cheating piece of
shit), and it struck a nerve. I have never been an HND; I have in the
past been a CPOS (though not in this relationship). My girlfriend is
lovely, supportive, and generally GGG, and though the sex is good, I
have a significantly higher libido than she does and I would like to
have a little more variety in my sex life. I want to be an HND, but I
don’t know how to broach the subject with the girlfriend without
ruining our relationship. We are very open about our sex life and our
relationship in general, but I think this is probably a “next level”
topic that may not go over very well. How do I bring this up without
screwing up our relationship beyond repair?

Aspiring Honest Nonmonogamous Dude

Based on what you’ve learned about yourself
in past relationships, AHND, i.e., that you’re a CPOS waiting to
happen, I would encourage you to err on the side of screwing up your
current relationship with an honest conversation about your mismatched
libidos and your natural and normal desire for a little variety. Lies,
damn lies, and statistics all demonstrate that, in time, one or the
other or both of you will cheat. Better to toss that out there now,
even at the risk of calmly winding down this relationship before you
revert to form/CPOS, than to see the relationship explode after
someone, most likely you, winds up cheating.

And while we’re on the subject of
cheating…

I suppose I’m obligated to say a few words
about Tiger Woods. First, let’s pretend that Elin Nordegren cheated on
Tiger and that Tiger went after Elin with a golf club. Would Elin be
viewed as the sole transgressor in the marriage then? Probably not. And
second, daily papers and cable news outfits reacted to Tiger’s
“transgressions” by changing the names in the same “Why do powerful men
cheat?” stories they’ve been pimping since Bill Clinton blew a load on
a White House intern. For the millionth time: Men cheat for the same
reasons women cheat, i.e., because they’re bored or horny or
unfulfilled or desperate to see someone else naked for a change. People
cheat because monogamy isn’t natural and we are wired to cheat. That
doesn’t make cheating right, of course; people should honor their
commitments, and blah-de-nine-iron-blah. But we shouldn’t encourage
people to make commitments we all know they’re unlikely to keep. The
end.

AUCTION NOTICE: Want to answer a question or
two in an upcoming column? I’m auctioning off a chance to give advice
in this space to raise money for some worthy charities. Go to
www
.tinyurl.com/SLauction for details and to bid.

Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly
podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

179 replies on “Savage Love”

  2. #17/regina1975: “While I am more than happy to indulge my partner if I can, I am completely, utterly, and 100% repulsed by toe-sucking, toes in private places, heel-licking, you name it. My memories of a previous boyfriend’s attempts at this behavior still sicken me (not that I think there is anything wrong with it, on the contrary, I think it’s absolutely harmless, but it’s just not my thing). While I am perfectly comfortable with clean, well manicured, non-stinky feet in an ordinary context (I even give great foot-rubs), feet completely gross me out in a sexual context.”

    This attitude — obviously shared by SFF’s girlfriend — seems to be pretty typical of women. I can guarantee that a MUCH higher percentage of men than women are into feet in a sexual context (and perhaps also in just admiring them aesthetically.) Why what is, I’m not sure, especially since, in most cases, guys probably just want to suck their woman’s toes, or lick their woman’s feet. They’re likely not expecting or demanding reciprocation.

    If I was with a woman who had nasty, gnarly toes, I’d probably be turned-off at the idea of sucking them, but why on earth would I be repulsed if she really got off on wanting to suck mine?

    I’ve been intimate with about 30 women. Of those, I wanted to suck the toes of only about half and most of them didn’t want me to do it. One of them loved the feeling and really got off on it. Not a single one of those women wanted to suck my toes (and my feet aren’t gnarly.)

    I think this ties in with what Dan said in a column about ten years ago: “It’s a sad fact that men are more likely to be kinky than women.” I’d be curious if there’s one kink (besides, perhaps, fantasy vampirism) that women are more into than men.

    Personally, I think that men have a lower “gross threshold” than women do, and that it’s probably due to nature more than nuture. I think that women tend to view things like toe sucking, armpit licking, butt licking, peeing — and, at the more extreme end, shitting (something that I find disgusting) — as more gross than men do. Just look at all the videos out there of women peeing, that lots of men are looking at. Are there lots of videos of men peeing that women are looking at? I doubt it.

  3. #132/Snappher: “I gotta put this out there – feet gross me the fuck OUT! anybody’s feet.”

    And I can’t help it, that attitude makes me laugh (and 100-to-1 says you’re a woman.) I can see being grossed out by the feet of some people, perhaps even most people…but ALL feet? A woman’s feet that are nicely-shaped and pedicured are beautiful and sexy. They’re just as much of a work of art as a lovely pair of hands. And I’m sure there are gay men that feel the same way about the feet of some men.

  4. #147/Amyranth: “Tiger Woods. The only thing that baffles me about that whole situation is why he even bothered to get married in the first place. If you didn’t want a monogamous relationship, why did you marry her?”

    My guess is that guys like Tiger want both: they want to be married (for the sake of having kids, for stability, or for some other reasons) but also want to continue to fuck other women. And if a man is honest with a woman and says, “Sweetheart, I really want to marry you but I can’t promise to be monogamous” then, in probably 99% of the cases, she’ll say “Adios”, so of course he’s going to promise to be faithful.

    I could be (and would willingly be) proven wrong but I think that a study would show that men and women who are very desirable (handsome high-status men and hot sexy women) and are married cheat more than married men and women who are not that desirable. Why? Because I believe that cheating is largely a function of opportunity. Sure, personal ethics plays a role — I’m sure there are very desirable husbands and wives who get a lot of offers but never give in to temptation, just as there are fat & homely husbands and wives who cheat — but I think, in general, the more desirable you are and the more temptation you get, the morely likely you are to cave.

  5. #151/falconswan: “And for the record, I’m a guy who is utterly grossed out by feet. Toes in particular. I would rather eat shit or fuck a dog than suck on some toes. So all you people talking about how it’s not really that bad? For some people, it can be.”

    While it’s typically women who feel this way about feet, you’re evidence that it’s not limited to them. You’d really rather eat shit than suck on toes? I highly doubt that, given that choice in reality, you’d choose to eat shit but, assuming you really would, it’s fascinating to me that someone can find feet and toes THAT horribly repulsive. Did your grandmother constantly rub her smelly feet in your face when you were young or something? Did a pair of feet steal all your toys? Or kill your pet dog?

  6. #22: No animal is virtually monogomous? Heh … I always thought the Handed Gibbon Hylobates Lal and Siamang Hylobtes Syndactilus were examples of primates that are monogamous.

    http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~palombit/Pal…

    Then you also have animals that are “obligate monogamous”, such as beavers. Beavers are monogamous; however, the only reason why they are, is because the cooperation between both parents is necessary for the survival of the offspring. Beavers need a division of labour between mama and papa, in order for their offspring to live (what the hell is a baby beaver called?) Marking their territory, maintaining their dam, raising their young, defending themselves from threats … it’s too much for one beaver to handle, so they mate for life.

    I do not know how to end this comment, so I will just point out how pretty gibbons are: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2163/1735…

  8. #142, not all of us have the “one romantic partner, many sex partners” thing going on. I have two romantic partners and some other FWBs. We all comfort each other through breakups or other stress. That’s what friends (and boyfriends) are for!

  9. Yeah, here’s someone else saying let’s all respect one another’s preferences and not hurl judgmental epithets like ‘natural’ and ‘unnatural’ at one another – columnist included.

  10. Not being judgmental, merely some observations.

    Civilization also isn’t natural or easy, but it is one of things that sets us apart from the animals (human and otherwise). It requires sacrifices and delayed gratification. I’m just trying to put things into perspective. There should be things more important than sex in a person’s life. There are angels and demons in everyone, our ability to control the latter is what makes us human beings, not merely homo sapiens.

  11. Okay. So there are a ton of comments, but I wanted to say one thing about the foot fetishist… What if his girlfriend has terribly ticklish feet? I don’t know about anyone else, but if someone sucked on my toes, I think I might break their nose with a knee-jerk tickled reaction. If my partner were into it, I’d want to try somehow, but I would still worry about accidentally kicking them in the teeth.

    Just a note. I don’t know the whole story or anything. But it doesn’t seem fair to assume that she’s being selfish.

  12. It may be because I’ve never been in love, but there is no way I would ever let anyone lick/ suck on my feet. I feel like I would vomit right on them. But I can’t even look at people wearing sandals, that is how much of an aversion to feet I have.

  13. As a man with a foot fetish (and someone who was unhappily married for years), I have to agree with Dan on this issue. It is as hard wired into what turns me on as my sexual preference. I don’t go so far as to need to suck on toes, but my woman having well groomed toes and allowing me to give her foot massages regularly are part of the bill. If a woman didn’t think that was acceptable, she just isn’t for me. I dated a woman for a short period of time who picked at her toenails. She also had an aversion to hosiery. I realized this was how she was and I couldn’t or wouldn’t change it, so I dumped her. She just wasn’t “the one”. Sorry but that’s how it is.

  14. Hey Faggot,
    Did you mean all humans are wired to cheat or not? Assuming you meant all when you said ‘people’ followed by ‘we’:
    SO,
    Monogamy isn’t natural… for everyone??? People are wired to cheat? Cite (a study, not People magazine and not yerself) or it doesn’t exist.
    I agree a vast majority of humanity is constantly looking for a better / newer / hotter mate and that many can claim certain instincts and darwinistic theories propel their libidos to change the sex channel every now & then: HOWEVER, I fully believe that just like some creatures in the animal kingdom mate for life, so do some select portions of humanity.

    I have a couple of friends, and they’ve been models-of-monogamy together for more than 2 decades, now. They set an example for those around them about how love/relationships aren’t to be phoned in or taken for granted, but improved upon, worked on, weekly. Yet, they are effortless about it. More than a few of us are fucking envious. They grow constantly and learn incessantly and seem to those of us in awe that they actually fall more in love as the years pass. Fucking saps. Yet, I would wish no two people to have more happiness and great years than them, and I sincerely hope they decide to raise a brood someday of equally well-adjusted, and truthfully loving progressives. SOME people are wired that way, too.
    Just like how US Presidents don’t HAVE to be dickhead old white men from Mayflower bloodlines, I’m grateful more than just one whitewashed, bitter, bitchy version of ‘relationship truth’ exists. It gives hope.

    People cheat because monogamy isn’t natural and we are wired to cheat. That doesn’t make cheating right, of course; people should honor their commitments, and blah-de-nine-iron-blah. But we shouldn’t encourage people to make commitments we all know they’re unlikely to keep. The end.

    Oh, and….

    Can’t SFF get himself a cyberskin foot and everybody’s (moderately) happy?? Or take a hotfoam casting of HER foot?

    Tiger who?

  15. @63: twat flavored asshats of plegm! Monogamy can be something other than ‘refraining’ from dropping trou at the slightest flirt or wink: some people are actually distracted by their one true love enough that ‘restraint’ isn’t needed! It’s not ‘refraining’ at all, it’s perhaps ignoring. Nor do they “do it for the kids”, they simply live a monogamous life. Dare I say, NATURALLY.
    Also, your anti- co-dependency subtext of ‘worrying about your partner’s feelings’ isn’t always part of monogamy either: some worry about their own… (whaddya call ’em…?) ethics. Pride. Personal choices. Honor. Promises.
    Open your mind enough to see that some people in humanity aren’t ruled by libido, fear or whim, but by conscious intelligent thought and reason, or gawd forbid, honesty & emotion. Your (and Dan’s) “sticking to your choice” line sounds just like the claim many churches make about homosexuality supposedly being a phase/choice, rather than a way some people are wired.
    Oh and…
    @22, @81, et al: Some facts for you: over 90% of avian species are socially monogamous and 10% are also sexually monogamous. 3% of mammals are sexually monogamous and 15% of primates are socially monogamous. Based on observation as well as genetic testing of offspring. So, while still a minority, monogamy exists quite frequently in the animal world. Add also: British Spiny Seahorse, Fairy-Wren, Corvus corax, and the gay penguins at the Central Park Zoo.

  17. @126 Oh, I guarantee that I WILL fall in love with other people. Exclusivity of any kind isn’t necessarily a facet of romantic love for everyone. I know couples/moresomes who’ve made polyamory work for decades! Monogamy is a form of commitment, but so is polyamory. I agree that people who attempt to guarantee their partner that they won’t fall in love with anyone else they’re fucking/dating are probably delusional.

    @142 I comfort my partners when they are upset for any reason. It could have to do with work, family, health, or yes, other partners. It’s called being supportive and I’m happy to do it!

  18. @140: ‘The foot fetish thing: the girlfriend clearly finds it a turn off, and quite possibly will lose respect/sexual feelings towards the boyfriend if he insists on indulging it.’ That’s a good point. Even a GGG lover who indulges in their partner’s fetish may just lose their attraction to them based on it, whether they want to or not (just as the partner can’t help but be turned on by it). Which is probably why this dude should find someone into it if it truly makes him happy. Because chances are, as with most hetero relationships, it’s easier for hi to get off than for her – hampering that dynamic even further isn’t a great idea.

  19. ‘The foot fetish thing: the girlfriend clearly finds it a turn off, and quite possibly will lose respect/sexual feelings towards the boyfriend if he insists on indulging it.’

    Whatever! I’m a guy and I used to find cunnilingus a turn-off and disgusting. I adopted a similar aversion tactic with my girlfriend: I knew she wanted it, but I didn’t do it, and she was too polite to push the issue.

    Thankfully, I saw the error of my ways and got over it. Otherwise, I’d be going against one of Dan’s cardinal rules (“Oral comes standard.”)

    I think it’s less to ask of someone to put their feet in someone’s mouth or on someone’s genitalia than it is to demand that they put their mouth on someone’s junk:

    You put your tongue on a guy’s dick, the guy puts his tongue on your pussy, what’s so bad about putting your foot on his dick? Jeez…

    If she has a problem with it, then that deserves to be respected. If she’s TOTALLY AND 100% NOT INTO IT, then they should break up. But honestly, I think that this aversion is something that could be worked through if taken slowly.

  20. @143, Tiger Wood’s wife didn’t chase him with a 9 iron, causing him to wreck his car. What happened was that he crashed in his driveway without any precipitant. All four doors, on both sides, were irretrievably damaged and he was temporarily paralyzed by the low speed crash, so obviously, she had to smash in a window so she could drag the large man out of his vehicle herself, as yanking an incapacitated person out of a vehicle onto the ground is the safest course of action for them. Then, his paralysis resolved, and they went inside. Got it?

  21. My lover has serious stiletto heels & foot fetishes. Doesn’t do a thing for me. But he loves it so much that I couldn’t possibly say no and it turns him on so much that I reap the rewards.

    Having said that, there are a couple of sexual things I absolutely could not do or watch. These are deal-breakers for me and if a lover absolutely has to have these, it can’t be with me.

  23. I HATE IT when people reverse gender/race/whatever roles like you can just do that without changing anything important about the situation. (Remember when everyone was saying, “If Sonia Sotamayor had been a white man . . .”? Yeah, that was really stupid.) We don’t react in the same way to the wife with the golf club because MEN BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF WOMEN far, far more than the reverse. It is not the same thing when you reverse gender roles in situations related to domestic violence. At all. Was Tiger’s life or person ever really in danger? I doubt it. The same is not true for a hypothetical woman in the reverse situation.

  24. I am also a male with a foot fetish and Dan’s advice was partially correct: she should go ahead and let him indulge even though it doesn’t do anything for her but I also agree with other posters in that if she finds his foot fetish completely disgusting, then they should part ways.

    I’ve known I had this fetish since puberty, which allows me to screen potential mates based on their affinity for letting me indulge. That guy should have known, after one week let alone four years, that she’s not into it. He should have moved on then. I’ve learned this about women and my foot fetish: there are probably 10 women who love getting foot massages, toes sucked, and giving footjobs to every 1 who detest it. When I meet someone and things go serious, I “test the waters” if she lets me go down on her feet and toes. If she recoiles, then it’s usually “nice to know ya”. You’ll always know as soon as you move your hands down to give her a massage. Watch her reaction. Body language speaks the most here. I don’t care if she’s Brangelina and can suck a grapefruit through a garden hose. No toes, no thanks.

    If you’re a woman with a man with a foot fetish, but you don’t find it disgusting (and at the same time it doesn’t get you off) then let him go at it. You can read a magazine or watch TV while you get the best foot massage you’ve ever had. And let him suck on your toes – I’ve converted several women from the “I don’t care for it” to “must have my toes sucked”. My advice: during missionary, as soon as you are about to climax, stick your toes in his mouth and ride the monster wave.

  25. Dear Foot Fetish Guy:

    Your girlfriend probably doesn’t want you licking her feet because she thinks it’s gross. She doesn’t feel her feet are attractive, and she doesn’t feel that they are clean.

    Here’s my advice. Buy her a really nice pedicure. Then- run her a nice bubble bath.

    Make love right afterward. Tell her her feet look amazing with the polish and that they are so clean and pretty- and you really want to make love to them right now.

    Show her how much you love her by kissing her toes. Progress to licking or sucking on them, or whatever you want to do.

    Take it slow, so that you don’t alarm her. You are basically just getting her to feel comfortable with it.

    Take this advice from me, because I am a girl- and I don’t find my feet particularly attractive.

    Oh- and don’t forget the rest of her as well. You should make it a whole-body experience!

  26. On the Tiger Woods/spousal abuse thing…

    I see a substantive (and not gender-based) difference between assaulting someone in the context of an ongoing relationship, and assaulting someone in the context of a nasty breakup (even if it is followed by reconciliation).

    The former is… perverting the presumed love and trust of a relationship by introducing violence. The second is merely overreacting to whatever stimulus instigated the breakup (usually the abuse-ee being a PoS in some way).

    It’s a bit like the difference between punching your friend in the stomach, or punching the guy who stole your lunch money in the stomach…

  27. So as usual I had to go look up a term mentioned in one of your columns. “The christian side hug” is quit possibly the most interesting term to date. I had high expiations of something to do with penis to ear penetration. But oh to my surprise what lengths the Conservative Christians will go to, complete with “Rough Rider” rappers and gun shots. I’m just wondering if anyone out there has developed a fetish for it. It would be fitting for such an over-bearing-conservative – Christian “movement” to spark a true kink for such intentional non-touching or hugging as it were. What’s next my conservative Christian Rough Rider rapper friends? My I suggest taking away all forms of physical interaction and insisting on “air interactions” circ Demolition Man staring Sylvester Stallone and Sandra Bullock. Oh wait, those types of interactions don’t work; just like only teaching/preaching abstinence!

    Thank God for Dan Savage!

    Sincerely,
    Brandy, stright from the bible belt

  28. Honestly, why do we care about Tiger Woods cheating on his wife? Unless you are his wife, child, relative, close friend, or one of the 13 women who he cheated with, then this doesn’t affect your life whatsoever! If he was just another regular Joe that cheated with so many women then the story might’ve still happened to make the news, but people would have stopped talking about it a long time ago.

    Now I’m a man that doesn’t think that being monogamous is impossible and we are all capable of being so, but monogomy can eventually become monotonous if we are not willing to try new things(sexual & non). However, if one knows within oneself that he/she can’t resist the temptation of cheating on someone they supposedly love then it’s best to break things off first.

    I’m 23 now, and I was also in a 4 year relationshp that lasted until I was 22. My ex and I had an amazing sex life and we were open with eachother to try different things. However, I often fantasized of doing other things with other women while having sex with her. Although this started to happen more and more, I never cheated on her. Not only do I think it’s wrong, but karma’s a bitch and I’d be hurt if someone I loved did that to me.

    I also happen to like women’s feet as long as they’re clean, pretty, well manicured, soft and smooth, and don’t have a bad odor. I actually grew up thinking I was wierd for having this fetish and afraid to try it, because I had never really heard of many people who were into feet like that. That was until I looked it up online and found tons of FF sites. I tried it out on my girl and she really liked it, especially when I sucked on her toes while bangin’ her back out. That would drive her insane!

    So with all that said, it just depends on how open we are with eachother and how important certain things are in our relationships. If there are certain things that two people may not agree on to the point where it takes a toll on their relationship, they may just not be compatable for eachother. Hopefully they can figure this out before they spend several years together.

    As I stated earlier, I have never cheated on any woman. I have been single for over a year and have had a number of flings, but I’m completely honest with them and they know that it’s just a fling. When I find someone who I feel a deeper connection with, then I will exculsively be with that person.

    Peace Yall!
    Devin, TX.

  29. I’m a little late to this conversation. Although I have a strong foot fetish, I have to agree with #5, above. About 95% of women feel the same way about that as she does and all I ask is for them to dump the guy they’re dating as soon as he confesses his fetish. You’re not going to change him and it’s not nice for women to string them along for a string of expensive dates hinting you might give in one day when you have no intention of it. In this modern age of interwebtubes, he can easily hook up with one of those rare women who will indulge him.

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