A few years before my wife and I met, she made porn with a boyfriend. He intended to start a pay-per-view website but never did. I was upset, but then I remembered that I enjoy porn, and the idea of seeing the hottest woman I’ve ever met—and am now married to—doing porn might be really enjoyable. To get these tapes, I’d have to contact the ex, and that might be a bad idea. What do you think?

Torn Over Porn

What does she think? The wife? Does she want you to see the porn? Does she want to have any contact—even if you handle the negotiations—with her ex?

If she’s cool with it, and thinks the ex will be cool with it, by all means ask for the tapes. But hold on to my e-mail address, TOP, just in case her ex is bigger than you, appears to be better in bed, etc., and you need someone to talk you off the ledge.

I see women prostitutes. Twice, the woman I was seeing turned out to be a post-op transsexual. They were both nice people, and I wish them well. But I prefer nature’s own vaginas. Some TSs disclose; some don’t. Some wind up getting outed on bulletin boards and trashed. I am sure it limits their income. What are the rules?

Prefers Really Original Sex

There are no rules in an illegal and unregulated marketplace, PROS, although I’m not sure how “truth in packaging” provisions could be enforced if prostitution were legal and regulated. So caveat emptor, boys, and try to mix a little empathy in with your emptoring. Many TS sex workers are engaged in what social workers call “survival prostitution”—they’re marginalized, they don’t have familial or societal support, and they’re selling sex to keep roofs over their heads—so they’re not duping you for shits and giggles.

And there are worse things than accidentally sticking your dick in a woman who was born into a man’s body, PROS. Did you catch Charlize Theron’s Academy Award–winning performance in Monster?

I have been in a nonmonogamous marriage for several years. We’ve had a lot of fun. My only gripe is that she is allowed to have solo adventures and I am not. When I protest, she says that she would rather stop having solo experiences than allow me to as well. This is little comfort, as I enjoy her having her solo experiences. My wife is a lovely woman, and I don’t want to risk any damage to my marriage or family life (we have two wonderful kids). But it is clear to me now that I require a little safe, NSA exploration on my own every once in a while. What’s a boy to do?

Equal Rights In Coitus

Hearing about the wife’s solo adventures gives you a boner—that is what you meant by “I enjoy her having her own experiences,” right?—while the prospect of your solo adventures has the opposite effect on the wife, i.e., the thought doesn’t give her a girl boner. So while you rightly perceive her solo adventuring as unfair, ERIC, there’s something in those solo adventures for you, i.e., boy boners, while there’s nothing in your proposed solo adventures for her, i.e., no girl boners.

Life isn’t fair, as I hope your mama warned you, and in an open relationship, life’s unfairness can manifest itself in one partner agreeing to less freedom of action in order to accommodate the other’s insecurities, irrationalities, insanities, etc. If the unfairness of it all is unacceptable to you, ERIC, accept your wife’s offer to terminate her solo adventures.

I’m a longtime fan and agree with you 99 percent of the time, and I’m usually annoyed when you run letters from angry readers. Alas, I think I’m one of those folks today. Your advice to Horny Homo two weeks ago was messed up. While I agree that some careful wording is needed when suggesting a threesome for the first time, a closeted bi guy pretending to go into a MMF situation solely for his girlfriend’s pleasure is a recipe for disaster.

As a bisexual woman, I find it pathetic that this guy can’t suck it up and tell his girlfriend that he’s interested in having sex with men. As you’ve said to other people in similar situations, he’s better off telling his girlfriend the truth. Maybe she’s completely GGG for the whole thing—or maybe she’d rather not be used by two liars looking to scratch an itch.

Flippant Answer Isn’t Legit

They can’t all be gems, FAIL, and that response sucked balls. Consider it withdrawn. And for the record: Yes to honesty, yes to the dude telling his girlfriend he’s bi, and yes to angry readers calling me on my fails, FAIL.

So the Oscar nominations just came out. The same question plagues me every year: How many people do you think have been fucked with an Oscar? I mean, it’s shaped just right and so associated with power, fantasy, etc. that it’s just gotta happen.

Hoping Every Lovely Little Oscar Gets Oiled Really Good Evoking Orgasms Up Starbutts

First, a programming note: When Savage Love readers noticed that I was turning sign-offs into acronyms to save space, they began crafting sign-offs that resulted in amusing and/or revealing acronyms, e.g., PROS, ERIC, FAIL. But long sign-offs, even if they make for terrific acronyms, don’t save space. So limit your sign-off to no more than five or six words, dear readers, if you want to see it in print. (I’m making an exception for HELLOGORGEOUS for reasons that will be immediately apparent to anyone who’s ever had a cock in his pants and his mouth simultaneously.)

Okay, HELLOGORGEOUS, your letter arrived on the day I had the distinct pleasure/honor of hanging out with a couple of people who just so happen to have four—four!—Oscars on a shelf in their offices. They laughed when I showed them your letter. Not because they had fucked themselves with their Oscars, HELLOGORGEOUS, but because the first thing they observed about their Oscars was that they were, indeed, “shaped just right.” (I think the shoulders are a bit wide, but the base is flared, which is what you want with an insertion toy.)

I didn’t press them on whether they had confirmed their suspicions—we’d only just met—but rest assured, HELLOGORGEOUS, if a thing can be stuffed in someone’s ass and/or twat, someone somewhere has stuffed the thing—Coke bottle, Oscar statuette, Scott Brown action figure—into someone’s ass and/or twat.

HEY, EVERYBODY: Recently dumped? Single? Bitter? Come to The Stranger‘s 13th Annual Valentine’s Bash this Saturday night at Neumos. Bring a memento of your failed relationship and I will destroy it for you live onstage and YOU WILL LOVE AGAIN! Go to thestranger.com/thebash for more info and to buy tickets.

mail@savagelove.net

104 replies on “Savage Love”

  1. @48

    Precisely. If he had presented it originally as “you can explore, but I get to, as well”, I’ve no doubt she would have said “then neither of us explore”. He never presented the options fairly to her, and is now trying to pull off a sort of guilt trip about it.

  2. Wow, lots of over-analysis. Are people projecting? Because you can’t know nearly enough detail about HIS life to come to all these conclusions.

    @ERIC: When I said “controlling” I didn’t mean “heinously evil”, like some people seem to be implying that controlling means. She’s limiting your choices, but it sounds like she’s more than worth it. I see your options as:

    1. Cheat and lie about it. Not worth the risk: you have it damn good now.
    2. Insist she stop the solo too. Makes both of you less happy.
    3. Enjoy what you’ve got, ’cause it’s pretty damn good!

    Not really a choice, is it? But you get that. Good on you for the attitude you’ve taken.

  4. @30:
    No, really not a Hugo. That sucker’s POINTY at the end and heavy enough to do some serious damage.

    I’ve gone out with two guys with Hugos and gave them both the same advice: don’t keep it in the bedroom. It inspires unflattering size comparisons.

  6. I have to agree that PROS has some transphobia going on. If there was nothing about the vaginas that made him realize they weren’t “nature made,” the only reason he’d have to object would be because he didn’t think the sex worker was a “real” woman.

    I dislike fake breasts. They look and feel wrong, and women tend to get them due to unfortunate social standards for appearance. I don’t think that’s a similar enough comparison to trans pussy, since the result is good enough to fool experienced vag afficienados.

  9. @30: I’d LOVE to know who those Hugo Award winners are…and your phone number…8-)

    @40: Hey don’t get down on yourself like that…”Hello gorgeous” refers back to what Barbra Streisand said after her Best Actress Oscar was handed to her onstage…

    cmzhang42

  12. @ 45 la dida

    That’s true.

    “…who we can presume actually care about each other and are not caught up in a competition, but rather in complicated emotions, got some decent advice from…”

    …the likes of me in that Mr./Dr. MultiPseudonyms and the like: F*** You for hurting me. Take some with you, you spineless bastard.

    Oh, and all your pseudonyms Dr. Phuccup: my irritated faith and intolerance for you and your gutlessness is the reason why I will tell you for all that you cannot to me, never will and now everyone can see: you: and the manipulative, unrealistic asshole you really are (That’s Right! YOU…BR.)

    Thanks one and all for your time.
    Go f*** yourself BR.
    If you happen to get a strange, disturbing itch or problems with your T cell count after some stray encounters with friends you know who blow you and give you ass on this upcoming Valentine’s Day weekend…I’ll try not to act too satisfied and/or pleased at your unfortunate, burgeoning, medical plight. Anywhere is better than where you are right now…BR.

  13. Hey, I read all the posts… and no one has asked ERIC’s wife doesn’t want him to play solo. My guess would be worry about an emotional entanglement threatening their relationship (that’s what I would worry about). If that is the case, they could negotiate for him to have solo adventures with women she considers “safe.” Which could include complete stranger out-of-town one-night stands, or professionals, for example.

  14. I’ve read all the way through, and no one has asked WHY ERIC’s wife doesn’t want him to play solo.

    My guess is that it’s fear of an emotional entanglement threatening their marriage.

    If that’s the case, they could negotiate that he only plays with women she approves as safe. Which could be people they know, or complete strangers out of town in one-night-stands, or professionals.

  16. Payback’s a bitch, and so are you at the end of the day BR. We’ve had this squareness of an issue forever, and it’s always me who bends, you do not, so F*** YOU!~! I bet I can guess the number of alt. names you’ve employed on this rather than wasting my time stopping to count.. Use your affluence and get your head examined. You may be able to salvage that much seeing how your heart is consumed with vacuously-misguided image-consciousness and impossible-to-attain ideals.. You’re probably so beyond f***ed in the head that it’d be too much of a mission to backpedal your way back towards common courtesies.. Who needs that when people can be bought off and bullshitted with good looks and connections? I hate you right now, and I’m glad I’m saying that. Now, stay silent like the shithead you are and continue to be unavailable and lame. Forgetting is always harder than wanting to find the good in you to forgive your lameness enough to maintain interest with regards to my own self-respect and dignity i.e./ a/k/a fuck off and go away Bob. I’m every bit your knarly karma as you are my own, and I don’t care anymore. You don’t, so why should I? Suck a wart-ridden dick and piss off, you heartless, spineless twat.

  17. ERIC here again. I had no idea my little letter would spark such debate! But in hindsight, it really does expose an interesting aspect of trust and equality.

    As for my wife, she feels like our marriage is “too good to be true” (her words) and doesn’t want to take any chances with emotional entanglement. We communicate extremely well and have talked about the fact that she trusts herself enough to have these experiences and that she should trust me to the same degree, especially considering that she rightly considers me a good guy (trustworthy, supportive, good with the kids). And as I said in my letter, the health of my family life comes first, I won’t cheat (I implied this), and I want only safe, NSA experiences. The romance is strictly reserved for my wife 🙂 But alas, this seems like too much of a stretch for her. I give her points for honesty, and for admitting that her feelings represent a double standard of sorts. As I said, she is a great woman, and we have a very good relationship.

    As for some sort of renegotiation, I think it is reasonable to ask her to give it a chance just once, with someone she has chosen, knows, and trusts. Maybe someone I have already been with when she was around. Then she will see that it is no big deal. I think it might be a good measure to put some other constraints around the renegotiation as well, such as limiting the solo stuff to every couple of months. Seems reasonable.

    Anyway, I’m enjoying the thread. Thanks all.

    ERIC

  18. Nice of you to step outside of your closet for yet another self-congratulating statement from you displaying your ego-driven idiocy and shallowness ERIC12345f***offanddie.

    Love with quotes to maximize the ironic,

    Devil.

  19. Eric. Give it a rest. You really need to stop pressuring your wife into doing something she is not comfortable with. She has spoken and she was clear. Let go.

  21. God, I love how the posters read the term “solo experiences” and immediately assumed that the wife was off banging guys left and right while her sexually neglected husband stayed at home and played with his “inadequate” cock and balls. OTOH (even before reading his response) I just assumed that ERIC had a wife who’d happily have threeways/fourways with her husband but “requested” to have some alone time with women on a semi-regular basis. I mean, that’s a normal relationship in the swinging lifestyle if the wife is bisexual. And his further admission that his wife has no problem with him sleeping with as many women as he is able to charm (as long as she is there to witness) is the reason why I’d say that he should stop looking a gift horse in the mouth. ERIC, you’ve won at the game of LIFE, you don’t *need* to have the ultimate high score. And trying to get the high score will not only destabilize your current relationship, it’s going to make you look incredibly bad in the eyes of the other players (some of whom put their quarters in the machine and met the final boss in the first minute. And with a bossy “No, you insensitive pig!” and a flash of cheap flannel, all of their night put together don’t equal one night with you, your wife and a willing female accomplice.)

    PROS, you “date” prostitutes. If you’re lucky enough to avoid diseases, criminal charges and outright theft, you should be glad for any pussy (artificial or real) that you get.

    And finally, for TOP, the past is dead for a reason. Unless you’re able to beat it back into the grave with supremely swivellable hips, extraordinarily talented hands or a massive cock, why the fuck would you want to see video proof of your wife’s former lifestyle? Either you’re looking for a challenge, or you’re a cuck in waiting. Any other excuse that you seek to find is flawed.

  23. Why are you being so sensitive and understanding this week? Where’s the real Dan Savage who compares ladybits to canned ham and claims bisexuals don’t exist?

  24. I would love to go there… the only thing is I am from Chicago and damn plane tickets are too damn expensive… blame the Olympics since Seattle is only 3 hours from Vancouver LOL… well perhaps next time 🙂

  26. Hey 76: at least you possess something integral: self-recognition. Thank you for admitting that you yourself are ‘The Biggest Douchebag You’ve Ever Known’. Calm the fuck down? Try growing some balls, or, better yet, Buy Some. Then Try Some…you pathetic cunt. Take another pill for your personality disorder…Bob. You’re dead to me. As good as dead, so be gone, like a Jewish funeral and cremation. Genie that you fuckhead.

  27. Maybe Eric’s wife gets off on the unfairness of the situation. Anyway all this quibbling is obiter. What will decide things here is what always decides things in any relationship: how unhappy are both parties and what are either one willing to do to become happy. Maybe Eric will “cheat” maybe he will re-negotiate. Maybe he will divorce her.

    IF you think that’s drastic well, it only takes a few minutes to write a comment on Savage Love, it takes the rest of you life to stay in a relationship where you aren’t happy sexually.

  29. Eric’s wife should have no qualms whatsoever about what he does to pleasure himself on his own. If she can have pieces of strange on the side, but he cannot, then it is *her* that has the problem. I think Eric is being cuckolded by the situation itself. I almost wouldn’t blame him if he strayed. She doesn’t seem to appreciate him.. I hope you find what will make you happy and please you Eric. I’m really enjoying your dialogue in here. It’s inspiring stuff.
    Thanks, A

  30. If Eric’s wife wants -and gets- her cake and eat it too, than Eric can enjoy a banana split on his own time by his own hand. Why should she get everything and he cannot? This is an interesting dialogue going..

    I admire you Eric for trying to stick it out and have a go at it. I think, if anything, you just need to tell her flat-out that she’s being unreasonable and that that is that. She needs to be told, as the saying goes. There’s been some interesting feedback in here.. I hope you find happiness and satisfaction Eric. You seem like a really good guy.. Thanks.

  34. @40, I also inferred that Savage thinks that only gay men are supposed to get the HELLOGORGEOUS reference. I’m a straight woman and I totally got it. Barbra Streisand says “Hello, Gorgeous” to Omar Sharif the first time she meets him in Funny Girl. Then, when she won the Oscar for that role and was handed the statuette, she said “Hello, Gorgeous” to it.

  35. There are two things that ERIC has to consider: 1) What ERIC is entitled to, and 2) what will happen if ERIC actually takes what he is entitled to.

    So, the first consideration, as a message to ERIC’s wife: ERIC is entitled to go explore privately, because YOU were free to go explore privately. Repeat: he is entitled to this. Even if you say, “Fine, call the whole deal off, then, nobody goes solo,” you owe him a free pass for as many interludes as you took up to that point. You don’t get to deny your partner the same liberties that you yourself have enjoyed. Period, end of story.

    Frankly, I don’t care whether you feel more insecure about the prospect than he does. If feeling more squicked out by the situation was a valid reason for denying somebody equal rights, then gays would have to sit down and shut up about getting married, because their marriages clearly freak the hell out of a bunch of people who happen to enjoy marriage as a fundamental right. But it doesn’t work that way: you don’t get to deny others the same liberties that you yourself have enjoyed.

    Just so we are all clear: You, ERIC’s wife, may be a dream woman in all other respects, but you are being a huge hypocrite about this. It isn’t “a double standard of sorts.” It’s a fucking enormous hypocritical piece of shit double standard. When you can look ERIC in the eye and admit how grossly unfair you are being on this, _then_ maybe you are ready to discuss this honestly.

    Now, the second consideration, as a message to ERIC: If you insist on taking what you are entitled to, your wife may freak out, and leave you over it. Granted, she will be being even more of a hypocritical piece of shit if she takes that option. But you have to consider which you want more: the freedom to explore, or a stable relationship with your wife. Either accept her terms (if the unfairness bothers you too much, take her up on the offer to shut off the side trips entirely, and write off the past), or demand your fair share, roll the dice and risk losing her.

  36. I’ve listened to Dan on This American Life for several years. This is my first week listening to this show.

    I just wanna say, Dan, you are so kewl …. so smart, and caring, funny and lovely. I once had a fantasy of having a sex advice column, but now I see what a good one can really be! You see the whole person, from many angles, but also the social context of sexuality, and opportunities to point to things we can all learn from — especially when it comes to busting many of the prejudices, assumptions and tendancies to judge we’re all capable of discovering we have.

    Thank you from me, thank you for the world. Bless ya, Dan!

    Nell

  37. We’ve all heard ERIC’s take on the situation, multiple times. Now I want to hear the situation described from ERIC’s wife, in her own words.

    Did ERIC “encourage” you into sleeping with other men just so he could get off on it, and so he could then get a free pussy pass? Or did you enjoy and want that yourself from the outset, when discussions were first opened?

    IF (emphasis on IF) it was the former, you had no business agreeing to ERIC’s “encouragement,” knowing how unequal that would make the arrangements. If you had no interest in sleeping around, you simply should have said “No, thank you,” from the beginning. However, he had no business pressuring you into accepting an arrangement where you had little or no interest in your half and an active dislike of his half. In that case, both of you were wrong, but they are offsetting fouls, and it is fine to want to reset the agreement. In other words you would be right to say, “Fine, call the whole thing off — I never wanted this in the first place.”

    IF (emphasis on IF) it was the latter, and you are actually fine with sleeping with other people solo, then you are simply being insecure and hypocritical. You are also saying you don’t trust your husband with something that you trust yourself on. There had better be a good reason for that.

  39. Thank you Dan for not using foul language indescriminately. Your recent columns don’t have the same zing, but that’s a good thing.

    TOPS- So you got a hot porno chick and having live action isn’t good enough for you? You’re weird. Make your own porn with her. Why do you want to see another guy do her? That’s a bit queer to say the least. If he does have a bigger winkie than you, I wouldn’t be so concerned about you offing yourself as much as you wanting to grab it and suck it. It’s okay, but that’s gay.

    ERIC-I say go solo and show her what’s fair. If she breaks it all off and throws you the kids so be it. She’s already gone solo plenty as far as I can gage, so you’ve got some catching up to do.

    Something tells me she can handle it and might even wet herself over it. I think a little relational distress (eg lying and deceit) is good here, you’re pussy whipped, dude.

    She reminds me of a partner I once had that told me in all honesty that I could be monogamous, but she didn’t have to. That if monogamy was so important to me then be monogamous. She said, “I don’t mind if you are, but I’m not going to be monogamous.”

    So if I am guilty of being scarred by this and it shows in my advice to you, yes, I admit, unilateral monogamy, or any other restriction, is like a little pebble in your shoe and not hers. Whatever happens between you two, this pebble is going to rub you raw for a long time to come. Either get the pebble out, or be sadistic enough to put a pepple in her shoe too.

    PROS- What gives with Johns thinking they can pay a $100 and get Paris Hilton, much less Angelina Jolie?

    When I get a massage with a happy ending, I don’t go to see if they know all the acupressure points, I go, and go back, if they can get me to jism to my forehead.

    I don’t know why you would want a real bleeding one anyway. From my experience it is a superior fit, even if “artificial” (whatever that means) and you never get the cottage cheese and fishy discharge.

    Besides, transgendered sex workers are the kindest, hottest, amazingly beautiful, souls out there. Since when did you have one that had a huge ass, not tits, and stringy hair?

    The “real” thing is overrated. I love pussy, but the more hybrid and less funky the better.

    If that doesn’t fly for you PRO, cough up a grand every six months instead of $200/month for a couple of visits, and get some classy puta for a change. I’m sure TOPS up there, can share his porn pile with you in the meantime.

    Real squeaky hot fleshy labias and vulvas ain’t cheap. It’s too bad you aren’t a hot guy and instead you have to lift your tummy to put your little dinky in just any old thing. Beggars can’t be choosers.

    Why don’t you get in shape, trot off to Mexico for some surgical addage yourself and land some chick that you don’t have to pay cash for every session? There are plenty of hot babes to be had, if only you had the right equipment and accessories yourself.

  41. I call bullshit on 91! Accepting her just keeping your nuts in a vise?!? NOT! ERIC, get what you need, fuck asking her to stop something you both want. Your wife is selfish, and controlling. She doesn’t care about your needs, only hers! If she said no to renegotiating, I’d cheat, then tell her about it, while I was fucking her lights out. I’d get her to talk dirty about her last adventure, then I’d spill it! Literally, and figuratively=D

  43. I think people are getting themselves emotionally worked up over ERIC’s situation, without really listening to how he feels about the situation. Reading his messages, I don’t get the impression of a soul in torment, but someone who enjoys his life and his marriage, but would like to negotiate a little more freedom for himself into the arrangment he and his wife have.

    Some of you are even suggesting that he break up his happy family and leave the woman he loves, when he clearly has no desire to do so. He will try to negotiate this freedom, and it sounds like they have excellent communication as a couple, but issuing ultimatums and or/sneaking around is unneccesary and counter-productive.

    I have no doubt that if they keep discussing this matter openly, they will find a balance that works for them. And in the meantime, how many people have an arrangement that works half as well as this couple?

    Take a deep breath people. ERIC will get his pass eventually, but I respect him for listening to his wife’s concerns, and being willing to bend to her needs. That is the way that he will convince her that his heart belongs to her, andwhen she is ready to let him off the leash, I think they will both benefit from this period of consideration.

  44. @94

    The negotiation is fairly simple; he can either agree with her unbalanced claims, negotiate some kind of new agreement, or break up the relationship.

    That said, any words said from the perspective of ignorance and insecurity must ultimately hold no absolute weight. More to the point, your appeals to him to consider his other’s needs will give him no help; by considering his significant other’s placement on the issue as prima facie deserving consideration, he is nevertheless giving her position credence. Negotiation is the place in which one admits one is just as wrong or just as right as one’s negotiating partner. When one is right and the other is wrong, it is time to beat the drums and signal the attack; by considering her invalid claims he is nevertheless providing them validation. She will never respect him unless he chooses not to negotiate but to render for himself; many sober men, I think, need to learn again the swaggering, drunken, devil-may-care of the rest of us.

    That said, I would never become involved with such a woman; but I am crazy, and value the security of the life I have found for myself, and would destroy anyone who would violate that barely secured peace of mind. Leave such a woman to the winds, with the other birds, where she belongs; I after all, am a maundering, heavily-burdened land-bound beast much more given to the guttural and soul-filled “roar” than the petty squacking of bickering-birds.

  46. @86
    Nope, sorry. She never said she was comfortable allowing him to sleep around, he said he was comfortable with her exploring. His giving her the right to do something doesn’t inherently draw reciprocity. We don’t know who did what when, and who wanted what, but it doesn’t seem very likely that she would be so willing to give it up if she was hot-to-trot about the idea in the first place.

    It’s not a double standard, you only perceive it that way because of your biases. The standard in any relationship is never (repeat: never) “do we get to do the exact same things”, it’s “what is my partner comfortable allowing me to do”. Allow me to demonstrate: I love the idea of my girlfriend swallowing my cum. If she likes the idea of me swallowing my cum, do I have to give that to her based on the number of times she’s swallowed? Of course not! She enjoys the act of swallowing, I find it repulsive. In a good relationship, you do everything you can to make your partner happy up to the point when you find something truly distasteful. Anything else makes the partner demanding “equality” exceptionally selfish.

    Unless it was pre-negotiated, he’s waived the right to demand reciprocity from her solo exploration. It’s not a fair share when he negotiated under false pretenses. He made a deal, he doesn’t get to change it on a whim and demand something in the interest of “fairness”. I agree he can renegotiate, but all that should happen is that the slate be cleaned, and they approach it from the current standpoint of “do we want to both be able to explore, or not”. Period, end of story.

    @90

    Bullshit, plain and simple. Him going solo isn’t fair. He basically said to her “you can go solo, but I don’t need to”, and she did. She abided by his limits on her behavior. If he didn’t negotiate in good faith in the first place, he’s at fault. If he “realized” he “needs” to explore, then he needs to negotiate from a clean slate (which he tried to do).

    Ignore, for a moment, the previous exploration (as that was governed by the previous agreement, and he would be estopped from attempting to seek compensation). Focus solely on the question “would you be okay with me exploring?” He answers “yes”, she answers “no”, thus she suggests that neither of them explore. That’s kind of how relationships work.

    You went out with an honest, non-monogamous, gal. She was upfront about the fact that she wouldn’t be monogamous. I agree unilateral monogamy (or, in this case, unilateral exploration) can be bad, but if you agree to it, live with it. Or, renegotiate, and accept that “no exploration” is just as valid as “we both can explore”. And, you know what, the ERIC’s wife already offered to remove the pebble of unilateral exploration, by having a bilateral non-exploration agreement

    @95

    I’m curious why her claim is inherently invalid. She desires to not have him explore on his own, and is more than willing to relinquish her own ability to do so in the interest of preventing his. Her position is not “I want to be able to explore on my own without you being able to” it’s “I don’t want you to explore”.

    Her position is reasonable, insofar as she desires her partner to be monogamous (at least in the sense of only being non-monogamous together). ERIC wants his partner to be non-monogamous, and actually enjoys that. She has said what she’s comfortable with, he has said what he’s comfortable with. But, fairness and equality aren’t the same thing. You want equality, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, but that’s not reasonable. Especially because “equality” in this sense can just as easily be termed “adhering to the comforts of your partner” rather than “being able to do everything your partner does”. To put it another way:

    I’m monogamous. Completely, as have been all of my girlfriends. I have the ability to perform oral sex on women, and they have the ability to receive oral sex from a man. This does not give any credence to the “right” of my girlfriends to perform oral sex on women, or for me to receive oral sex from a man. Any relationship involves compromising your needs to the comforts of your partner, that’s simply life. If I like the temperature at 65 degrees, and she likes it at 75, we compromise. But, if I like either 65 or 75, and she can only stand it to be 75, we keep the temperature at 75.

    @everyone demonizing the wife

    I’m curious what the solution for her is. Clearly she can’t accept her husband sleeping with other women (or men) without her. But, that’s true of a lot of people. So, she has four possible options:

    1. No one explores
    2. She explores by herself
    3. He explores by himself
    4. Both explore.

    # 3 and 4 she can’t do, number 2 is “selfish” because it’s unfair and unequal, and number 1 is selfish because not only can he not explore, but she “removes something he enjoys”. Give me a way she isn’t a selfish bitch that doesn’t involve doing something she finds distasteful.

    By the way, the husband has never had to accept her doing something he didn’t like, wouldn’t it be selfish of him to demand that she allow him to do something she doesn’t like?

  48. 95, there is no subjective right or wrong when dealing with emotions.
    You might say ‘it’s wrong for ERIC’s wife to feel as she does’, she might even agree that she shouldn’t feel like she does, but she cannot then simply decide not to feel that way.
    ERIC’s goal seems to be to obtain her consent for outside contact for himself, WITHOUT causing her excessive distress. Therefore he is taking time to renegotiate, rather than just deciding that she is wrong and he can go and do as he likes.
    What would you have him do?

  49. It doesn’t work that way. If you can’t accept your partner playing you shouldn’t play yourself, regardless of whether your partner says it’s cool.

    But I guess that’s my male perspective. Because if the genders were reversed people would assume the husband was an abusive monster.

    I get to fuck around but you don’t? There are things that consent doesn’t make OK.

  50. @86

    By that logic my boyfriend is denying me my rights because we have threesomes with girls, but not guys. Even though we agreed to that before we set out like they did. Yes, I would like the opportunity to experience another guy, but he is very uncomfortable with it and so we don’t. BOTH people have to agree to changes in the arrangement; it’s not like she’s trying to limit what they already have.

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