My husband and I have been married for one year, but we had been dating for 10 years prior to that. I thought we had a very understanding relationship. In the last couple of days, I have found out that he has a serious obsession with females wearing running shoes. He had in the past hinted at the fact that it turns him on, but I had no idea of the scope of this obsession. I’ve discovered that he spends a large number of hours a week devoted to this fetish. He was sloppy in covering his tracks one day, and I found evidence on his computer.
I should also mention that when he told me he thought running shoes are hot, I thought he meant on me, not on all living and breathing females.
I believed that he could trust me enough to be open with me, but he has been hiding this from me for 11 years! I am still in shock and not quite sure how to deal with it. He obviously feels ashamed, otherwise he would have told me years ago. Why did he not bring this up before we got married? I had a right to know what I was getting into. I don’t know if I can live with knowing that he gets a hard-on for every running-shoe-wearing woman who goes by. I feel betrayed and creeped out. He says that he didn’t want to hurt me, but he has done just that. I feel physically sick to my stomach knowing that I didn’t really know who he was all this time. We still have to work it out and really talk about our new situation. But I am beginning to think our marriage isn’t going to survive this. Am I being too sensitive? How can I fix my marriage?
Dumbfounded In Brooklyn
Does your husband like your tits only, DIB, or can he get a hard-on for every tits-wearing woman who goes by? Does he like your pussy only, DIB, or can he get a hard-on for every pussy-wearing woman who goes by?
If your marriage can survive the husband being attracted to tits and pussy generally, DIB, but attracted to your tits and pussy particularly, your marriage should be able to survive the awareness that your husband is into women in running shoes generally but into you in running shoes particularly.
Why did he keep it from you? Because he was ashamed, DIB, because guys with fetishes are told—hey there, Prudie—that they’re disturbed and unlovable, and because no one bothers to inform straight women that fetishes are to male sexuality what lies are to a Fox News broadcast: likelier to be present than not. So he dropped hints but didn’t tell you during year one—or year two or three, year four, etc.—because he was afraid you would have the reaction you’re having at year eleven.
So what do you do now? You forgive him, if you give a shit about your marriage, if you actually ever loved him, and you do a little reading about male sexuality. Daniel Bergner’s The Other Side of Desire is a good place to start.
And ladies? If your boyfriend or husband has “hinted at the fact that [something or other] turns him on,” you can safely assume that [something or other] really turns him on.
A good friend of mine is engaged to a woman with an extremely low sex drive. He’d like to have sex every day; she barely responds to his touch. I advised him to work up the nerve to suggest an “understanding” or to disengage. If he’s this frustrated as a 27-year-old fiancé, how is he going to feel after five years in a monogamous marriage?
Concerned Buddy
Either your buddy won’t be married in five years or he won’t be monogamously married. Either way, CB, you spoke up, and that’s all a friend is required to do under the circumstances. Now you have to stand back and let your buddy make the biggest mistake of his life.
I assume you’ve heard of Chatroulette by now. I discovered it about four weeks ago, and I am strangely turned on by all the dudes on there jerking off. I have started to show my tits to some of these dudes because it is such a massive turn-on for me (who knew I had this exhibitionist streak in me?). My husband doesn’t know about any of this. However, all sexual arousal is redirected his way in the form of really hot, passionate fucking!
I feel bad about not telling my husband. Do you think this is cheating? If you say it is, Dan, I will stop.
Clever Acronym
I don’t want to call what you’re doing cheating, as cheating is such an ugly word, but odds are good that your husband would call it that.
Even so, CA, I’m reluctant to tell you to stop. Spend a few weeks reading my e-mails, and you will come to regard anything that lights a fire under the marital bed as a universal good. So talk to your husband. Tell him that you “discovered” Chatroulette about four weeks ago. Then tell him you were surprised by (1) just how many dudes are jerking off in front of their computers at any given moment and (2) just how turned on you were by their exhibitionism. Confess that you’ve been a bit obsessed with the site, add that it’s why you’ve been so horny lately, and then invite him to join you for a session. If he seems into the idea, or gets into it once you’re online, sheepishly confess that you’ve been flashing a little skin yourself.
Then fuck the husband’s brains out.
CONFIDENTIAL TO SAVAGE LOVERS: I need to ask you to do something. Not for me, but for a teenage lesbian in a small town. Constance McMillen is a senior at Itawamba Agricultural High School in Fulton, Mississippi. When she asked if she could attend prom with her girlfriend, she was told no. When Constance pressed her case, the Itawamba County School Board canceled prom rather than allow Constance to attend with her girlfriend. The school board had to know what would happen next: The other students blamed Constance for getting prom canceled and “ruining senior year.” Constance is now being harassed and bullied.
The school board claims it canceled prom to avoid “distractions.” Now it’s up to us—to decent people everywhere—to make sure that bigotry and discrimination are a much bigger distraction for the Itawamba County School District than inclusion and tolerance ever could’ve been.
E-mail, call, and fax Itawamba Schools superintendent Teresa McNeece (tmcneece@itawamba.k12.ms.us, phone 662-862-2159 ext. 14, fax 662-862-4713) and Itawamba Agricultural principal Trae Wiygul (twiygul@itawamba.k12.ms.us, 662-862-3104). Then join the Facebook page “Let Constance Take Her Girlfriend to Prom.” And, finally, make donations to the Mississippi Safe Schools Coalition (www.mssafeschools.org), which is organizing an alternate prom that will welcome all students, and make a larger donation to the ACLU LGBT Project (www.tinyurl.com/yl9mvkb).
Call, write, fax, donate. Constance needs to know that there are people all over the world who are on her side. And, more importantly, Itawamba County Schools needs to know that we’re not going to let them get away with this. Be respectful, but be relentless. Let’s show these bigots what a real distraction looks like. Get ’em.
I’ve written an email to the school !
@93 You’re right, hints aren’t telling people outright but they can be a way of gauging someone’s reaction to something that you’re embarrassed about or have found in the past that people don’t understand.
My husband’s reaction might be different if I told him outright that I have this kink but after a lifetime of being embarrassed by it I find that no matter how hard I try I can’t tell this hyper clean, ultra respectful, conservative, and wonderful man that I want him to piss on me. He knows everything about me but this, which is why it never occurred to me that DIB’s husband was hiding anything other than his shoe fetish.
Is DIB’s real problem the fact that her husband’s idea of a fantasy isn’t having sex with his wife, missionary-style, with the lights off and one sad votive candle burning somewhere?
I entirely support the aim of the ‘Let Constance take her Girlfriend to Prom’ campaign – but I think you’re going about it the wrong way. You say to be respectful – but in the same breath, accuse the school board of being bigots. While that may well be true, I can’t speak for you but I know if someone starts an argument by calling me names, I’m very unlikely to say “Hey, you know what – I was being bigoted – let’s fix that”. Using provocative, angry language makes it very easy to categorise any criticism as “crazy person” – and ignore it.
The Itawamba County School Board should reverse their decision – not because it’s proved to be a distraction – but because it’s simply wrong.
By emulating the mass calling/letter writing campaigns of the crazy “family values” types, you push people towards more risk averse behaviour. Other school boards in Mississippi won’t look on and think “We had better let the queer kids come to prom” but rather “We’d better avoid any situations like this in the first place”. Which could mean more pre-emptively cancelled proms for everyone – or any events where teenagers might pair off (or whatever the poly-equivalent of pairing off is called).
Big, noisy, hateful campaigns are what *they* do. And we’re better than that.
I’d suggest letting the ACLU do their important work, and get your readers and listeners to focus on telling the world the positive story of why it’s the right thing to do. Collect stories from other queer couples, or parents of queer children, about their Prom experiences – both good and bad. And how the world hasn’t ended as a result.
Appeal for donations, publish a collection of the above stories, so that Constance can throw her own “Private” prom in Fulton which will welcome all the students in the community, whether they’re gay, straight or bigoted. Exploit your celebrity friends to secure the most awesome night of entertainment, that will blow out of the water any tedious alternative that the “moral” members of the community might put on. Make her a hero to her peers for bringing [Insert name of popular band here] to their town.
It’s right to be angry about injustice like this. But to emulate the blustery outrage of the right doesn’t make the progressive/gay rights movement look good – it’s all fuel for their “the gays are coming to steal your children” fantasies.
Better to show them, and all of the unengaged people in the middle, that we’re constructive, not hate-filled, and capable of making a positive impact on their communities.
Big fan. All the best
Chris
(I’m the UK – we don’t get to have proms at all…)
Man, running shoes? I wish I had a guy into running shoes; I’d never have to wear anything else! God, what if I got a man who was into crossdressing and high heels? I look terrible in a dress, and I can’t walk in heels!
Poor guy, that he’s been made to believe his totally vanilla fetish is something to be ashamed of. I could understand his partners’ squicking if he was into scat or waterplay, since those can come off a little on the extreme side (I got lucky, like the second relationship I was in was into that, so I was de-sensitized to the possibility early), but seriously? Running shoes? RUNNING SHOES?
I don’t have a running shoe fetish myself, but think of all the fun that could be had: going running togther and ending up somewhere secluded for a bit of outdoor action. Coming home sweaty from a solo run and taking everything off but the shoes while he watches. Taking him shoe shopping. Watching ‘What Women Want’ together. Re-enacting Apple’s 1984 commercial. Playing kiss-chasey.
#8 totally nails it – DIB’s husband just handed her a gold ticket to sexual pleasure. If she doesn’t take it up he should just dump her and find a girl who likes running…
I had no sex drive for years until I stopped taking the pill last month. Before going on the pill I had always been horny as hell, but after starting it, playing with my pussy had about the same effect as rubbing my elbow (not having an elbow rubbing fetish, this amounted to little sensation at all). Oral sex was pointless. I’m still with the same partner I was with while I was on the pill, and he’s always indulged my fantasies and kinks when I wanted to have sex. I can’t get enough sex now (God, oral is the best thing of all time, anal is better than ever, and I can come manually without the aid of a vibrator). The only variable that’s changed is the fact that I’ve gone off of the pill. I don’t think most people realize how detrimental it can be to some women’s libidos. I certainly had no idea-I thought it was my antidepressant all along. I know a lot of guys don’t give a second thought to the woman in the relationship taking control of bc by popping the pill, especially since every guy I’ve ever known hates condoms,but maybe they should try another form of bc and see if that helps with the libido problem. I don’t know if the girlfriend mentioned in CB’s letter is on it or not, but if so, try going off of it! Seriously, do you think her boyfriend would rather bag it or have sex so infrequently that it drives him out of his mind?
10 FTMFW
Lighten up lady! Just because you’re married does NOT mean your husband will NEVER find any other woman aside from you attractive, and for you to suggest as much is ridiculous.
Loosen up the leash a little! If he loves you, he will NOT leave the porch.
@97 agree just because we don’t live under a brutal totalitarian regime or struggle for the basic amenities like food and shelter doesn’t mean our problems should be marginalized. However some people’s problems don’t necessarily merit national attention and million fag marches, and I was just looking for a little more info and motivation on this issue than cable news can provide before I joined the call to arms. The jesus freak idiot @63 got me off the fence and into the game and the Itawamba school system has received several phone calls from a southern gentleman named Danny Butterman who is concerned about the apparent proliferation of ‘dem durn queers’ at Itawamba Agricultural.
Don’t throw the husband out because he has a harmless fetish! Instead, use it! Indulge him by wearing (a new) pair of running shoes to bed now an again. You will have a devoted lover for the rest of your life. It will be worth it. Trust me!
“no one bothers to inform straight women that fetishes are to male sexuality what lies are to a Fox News broadcast: likelier to be present than not.”
That made my morning, thank you Mr. Savage. Still the king!
i’ve heard about this prom thing, but i don’t quite understand– straight girls who couldn’t get dates have been going to prom with their chick buddies since proms were invented. the only way i can imagine it would have become an issue if constance’s girlfriend is _not_ a member of the high school senior class. is that so? is she from a different school and/or a different grade? i really would like that point clarified, because if they’re both in the senior class, i can’t see how this possibly became an issue, or why constance would even have to “ask” to attend with her in the first place.
@96
I kind of doubt that he’s falling into the madonna/whore paradox. If he were, he wouldn’t have mentioned it in the first place. It seems like this is more the wife’s hang-up than his.
If she’d said to herself “he likes running shoes, so by god I’ll wear running shoes”, this never would have come up. She blanched at his desires, didn’t fulfill them, and is shocked that he found another source. Assuming she’s a good sexual partner, rather than a selfish bitch, I think she would have embraced his desires if she had the stomach for it.
What she wants, fundamentally, is the right to say “that’s freaky, I won’t do it, and I don’t want you getting turned on by other women”. She wants the moral authority to reject outright the kink itself, and to be able to put him in a fetish chastity belt permanently.
The more I think about her letter, the less it reads like a legitimate plea for help, and the more it reads like her wanting to be given permission to give him the crappiest ultimatum ever.
@94
It doesn’t take mind-reading, just paying attention. If the only way we can reasonably be expected to understand our partner’s needs is if they specifically spell them out, we’d all be royally fucked in terms of having relationships.
We’d have to have bloody contracts (or verbal equivalence), stipulating everything we’re looking for. So, if DIB gets a pass on not taking “I like running shoes” as more than a comment in passing, do I get to take “our anniversary is coming up” as nothing more than small-talk? How can I know my girlfriend wants flowers, a nice night out, all that jazz?
A good relationship isn’t about giving your partner everything he or she asks for, it’s about understanding what he or she is trying not to have to ask for. Especially in kinks, life is like this. Once he hinted, it was up to the wife to ask (either enthusiastically or at least interestedly) what he meant, what he likes about them, and what she can do for him. If my girlfriend says she likes having her feet played with, it’s not up to her to tell me what she wants, it’s up to me to ask and try things to make sure she enjoys herself. And it’s always better to overshoot. Take her statement of interest to the greatest degree possible, and let them tell you less is better.
Relationships work best when both partners are doing everything within their power to maximize the enjoyment of the other.
@113
Two issues:
1. Dress code. She wanted to come in a tuxedo, rather than the more traditional prom dress. The school gets to decide what is appropriate dress for extracurricular activities; in the same way I couldn’t go to prom in a velvet ball gown (even if it wouldn’t have been horrible looking).
2. There’s actually a policy from the Board of Education against bringing homosexual dates to prom. It’s stupid, but it’s there, and may pass constitutional muster. The difference, I believe, is in that she wanted to bring a female “friend” as a “date” rather than just going stag in a group. Though, it may be that the girlfriend was a different age, or from another school, and so had to be approved of as a “date” in order to gain entrance.
Here is what i sent to the fine administrators of the Itawamba school system;
I just finished reading “The Help” about racial bigotry in Mississippi in the 60’s. The book ended on a hopeful note as people became empowered with the knowledge that their lives had value and they could positively impact others to help create a world of educated, tolerant like minded people. I find it very interesting as a 47 year old straight conservative father of 4 that there are still areas in this country that promote the concepts of hatred and intolerance of those that are different from the people in power. But look where you are.
What message are you sending to all the students who are denied their prom? Certainly young Constance will emerge a stronger more powerful person as she realizes the unconditional love offered by millions who support her. Dare I say as Jesus himself loves her? So you have unwillingly and unwittingly furthered the social cause of those you seek to oppress. Congratulations. And of course the student body that looks to their leaders as role models will now misdirect their anger at losing their prom toward a segment of society that had nothing to with the cancellation of the event. You are promoting hatred and intolerance in direct opposition to true christian behavior.
It is not my place to judge, nor is it yours. And you have the rest of your life to come to terms with it. Good luck to the people of Mississippi and your charges specifically.
@48, very good point. This fetish could be seriously threatening to someone who is the opposite of athletic. And that could qualify as a fetish that automatically excludes her like race, a la #30.
@60 – really? The hardons end when the women are over 40? I’d better not tell those boys following me around that I’m 46.
DIB’s husband “had in the past hinted at the fact that it turns him on”. Since she didn’t indulge his fetish or inquire further, then he, quite reasonably, stopped discussing the topic. Otherwise DIB would have written about how her husband keeps shoving it in her face despite her lack of interest !
Lies are the raison d’etre of a Fox News broadcast. Also, I’m disappointed about the complete failure to reference the joke about the difference between pygmies and a girls track team.
Yay! No annoying cryptic messages today.
DIB sounds ridiculous- running shoes? wow.
CB- yeah, check if she’s on the pill- maybe that’s why no sex drive.
CA- That sounds like fun, gonna have to check that site out!
I already sent Ms. McNeece an e-mail. It was respectful. I respectfully called her a scumbag for putting a 17-year-old girl in a position to be harassed, bullied and potentially physically harmed. Which she is.
Don’t forget to hit them in the pocketbook as well.
I’ve just informed the Mississippi tourist board that I have canceled my trip to Biloxi this summer. My friends are bummed, but are coming here to Oregon instead. So, not only does Mississippi lose tourist dollars, Oregon gains tourist dollars! Double whammy!
Were you planning a trip that you have canceled because of this mess? Will you refuse to travel there as a result of the Itawamba school district’s actions?
E-mail to: tourdiv@mississippi.org
Constance is going to be on Ellen tomorrow!
Im a GGG bi girl whose been open to threesomes! casts! pissing! Im turned on by hearing my partner talk about who else he flirts with/checks out/is attracted to in real life (all kinds!). I jerk it daily to stuff in my head. I balk at being called a square.
My dirty little secret? Porn generally freaks me out. Im a skinny little shit and my type mostly seems to equal the lithping lolita kid, when acting like that in bed seems totally counter to my sexuality. The idea that non-quasi-pedo dudes just want a huge pair of tits makes me feel pretty crap about my body, and more a propos!
the ratwheel of disposable chicks, the hundreds of thousands of relatable, vulnerable looking babes that you can rate, reject and demean over the leisure hours, withOUT a counterpart for the girls to level the playing field, does freak me out to think about. hobby porn has always bugged me since i was a twelve year-old with computer-clueless older brothers.
get over it? i cant, so i always have a dont ask dont tell porn clause in relationships. look at it, that’s the norm, that’s what stimulates your story grind or your boner or whatever, but everytime it’s been brought up, or i’ve stumbled upon the auto google searches, i have felt upset and depressed. thought a reaction a lot like DIBs. repressed i’d like to think im not, insecure maybe, but as much of a _fact_ of male sexuality that porn might be, there’s also a long and varied tradition of women being upset by porn. it might not be straightup prudishness, but the fact that we dont have any representation of a tradition to call our own – what’s out there is pretty bleak.
and, as other ladies have said, it’s not because we aren’t “visual creatures”.
to be clear: cheers to the women who arent freaked out by it, who love it, embrace it, etc.
just saying there are more than a few like me where watching porn together is a more depressing suggestion than a foursome.
@123
In general, I agree with your statements. We shouldn’t do anything to make our partner(s) feel uncomfortable. And, the sometimes-abusive nature of much of pornography can be disconcerting to women.
But, that said, there has to be an outlet. Especially if it’s a fetish thing, pornography is taking the place of fulfillment within the relationship. If I’m into footplay, but my girlfriend finds it disgusting, I’m much more likely to go to porn than give it up. But if her reaction were “hell yes, let’s do it”, the porn wouldn’t be necessary.
It even makes sense that a girlfriend/wife would like to be able to ignore (on some level) her boyfriend/husband’s appreciation of other women. In DIB’s case, though, the issue is that she simply won’t give him what he can get from other women.
My thing, I guess, is this: I’d rather get a footjob from my girlfriend than some random other girl. But if my girlfriend won’t do that, while I won’t cheat, I will get that itch scratched. Either fulfill his fantasies, or don’t be surprised if he does that on his own.
The same works in reverse, of course, so don’t think I’m just about men being happy.
Dear Ms. McNeece,
I am writing to express my dismay at the decision to cancel the prom
at Itawamba Agricultural High School over something as trivial as who
attends prom with whom (or, put another way, what one student claims
to feel about another student with whom he or she attends prom).
Racism, sexism, and other prejudicial condemnations based on someone’s inalienable characteristics are wrong because they are inaccurate. And they are immoral because, being wrong, they stand as impediments to seeking the Truth.
What are your students learning from this decision?
I urge you to reverse the decision, reinstate the prom, and permit each student to attend it with whomever he or she chooses. Furthermore, admitting that the decision to cancel prom was morally wrong could serve as a lifelong lesson to your students. Rather than being ridiculed by people across the country and the world (as is currently the case), you could be venerated as an example of someone who turned away from bigotry in favor of tolerance. What a legacy that would be!
Best regards,
Brad Howard
cf: Luke 7:37-50; John 8:1-11
Stamped, addressed and written on fancy stationary. I’d douse it with Chanel #5 if I could afford it and thought it would help.
Like two girls dancing together, one of them in atypical clothes, is all that unusual for a prom. And I doubt that a school this uptight wouldn’t have chaperones around to make sure that no couple did more than dance.
(Darn; I spelled “chaperon” wrong. Stupid handwriting with no delete key…)
Keep fuckin’ that chicken, commenters. Constant repetition, that’s the key.
I appreciate what you’re doing here with the Itawamba thing, and I trust that it is an appropriate response. Nonetheless, I am troubled that your entire representation of the other side of the story is a single-word quote. I intend to do just as you have asked, but I also intend to find out more about what the other side is saying first. If nothing else, it will make for a more informed and reasonable objection. I expect that research will reveal no surprises, but in spite of respecting the spirit of your call-to-arms, I have to bluntly say I don’t respect your methods. Too tea-baggy for my taste—be responsible and arm your readers with more information before you light the torches, eh?
I sent an email to Ms. McNeece. (I’m a gay dude) I was respectful, but frank. I did demand that she issue a public apology admitting that she/they are wrong in their thoughts and actions, otherwise their younger generations will never learn and America will forever have possum fucking billy goats from the south running amuck and chasing down anything that moves with a chain saw. Can I add that I love the south and its food and Paula Dean? I do, but obviously it has a past and it has issues, as do we all. But change is the goal.
Also, I agree with everyone that DIB is crying over spilled milk…spilled by naked ladies in running shoes. lol. But really, what is the bfd? 11 years? so what. “Um, Hi my name is Marge and I am recently divorced because my husband has a thing for running shoes and he waited 11 years to tell me about it.” Wake up ya douche.
DIB – seriously? You are a reader of Dan Savage, and yet you think your reaction to your husband’s fetish for *running shoes* is somehow rational? I see a lot of debate over whether DIB’s reaction is based on the fetish itself, the fact it was hidden for 11 years, or the fact that it involves other women. The way I see it, it doesn’t matter which option it is, DIB is still being reactionary and unrealistic.
DIB’s husband didn’t hide his fetish, she says he’s “hinted” at it before. Most people are pretty damn shy about their fetishes, especially if the person they’re dating hasn’t expressed any kink of their own. Dan’s spot on when he says that if someone’s “hinted” that something turns them on, that it REALLY turns them on. This applies whether the person is male or female – for most people, it takes a lot to break down cultural conditioning and even suggest that something outside the norm might turn their crank. The fact that they’re able to do it suggests that a raging boner or moisty is driving them to the admission. DIB knew her husband hinted at it, yet her reaction was to ignore his hints and hope they go away. Even if she thought that his hints meant he only liked her in running shoes (right, that’s realistic), why wouldn’t she try to indulge that more?
Given this, does it really surprise her that she found him looking at pictures of ladies in running shoes? In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if, either consciously or subconsciously, he left clues on his computer because after 11 years together, he really wanted her to get the hint but was too worried to do it by direct confrontation. She needs to adjust to the fact that everyone everywhere is attracted to other people, and that men in particular will enjoy looking at other people. This is never going to change. But just as nothing can fully replace porn in a man’s life, nothing can come close to the value of a partner that will fully indulge your fetish in real time. So while he will never stop admiring other women in Nikes, simply looking will never compare to the joy he’d experience in actually getting to do sexy things to his Nike-wearing wife.
For them to be together for so long, one presumes their relationship is fairly stable – she herself didn’t mention any other problems. For her to react this way over one of the least offensive fetishes I’ve ever heard of blows my mind. If their relationship really has been good, she needs to get the fuck off her high horse and put on some damn running shoes.
I hid a whole complex of fetishes from my wife not for 11 years, but more than 40 years, because I was afraid that the only woman who ever loved me and had been my best friend would leave me once she learned about the “real” me and that I had “lied” to her for all that time.
My fetishes, which demolished much of my potential when I was 13 or 14, aren’t illegal, except perhaps in Mississippi, but they are definitely NOT vanilla. If I had not entered my fetish closet on the first day that I gave in to my compulsions, I never would have had a friend, a girlfriend, or a job, much less a wife, family, and career.
I told my wife about my fetishes less than two years ago. I had been in counselling for about a year, “for stress.” After finally revealing my fetishes to my psychologist, she was able to convince me that I was not the only person in the entire Universe who got off on my particular “perversions,” and that what I did privately need have no bearing on my public life. However, I was so tired and stressed from hiding my fetishes from my wife that I just had to tell her about them, regardless of the consequences.
It was a memorable conversation. When I finished explaining my fetishes, in broad strokes rather than the unappetizing details, she first expressed amazement that I had been able to hide them from her for all those years, and then said, “So, was there anything else you wanted to tell me? I’ve got some other things I need to do.”
I had a lot more to say, but the cat was out of the bag and my marriage was intact. We’ve had many conversations over the months since then, and our marriage (and sex) is better than ever. Oh yes, there’s one book that helped us both in better understanding me, the same book that Dan has just recommended: The Other Side of Desire, by Daniel Bergner.
I’m not out of the fetish woods yet, and never will be. But I’ve made a lot of progress, thanks in large part to my wife, who is smart enough to realize that people are complex beyond imagination and that a good relationship depends on the ability to suspend judgement and to assume that you can always learn something new about the people closest to you, and about yourself.
Dan, you’ve got no clue about marriage, and you show it over and over again. I’ve been happily and monogamously married for some years, and several children, and my wife has far less enthusiasm for sex than I do, and only wants fast and vanilla, but that’s not all there is in life, and we’re overworked and tired anyway, so I live with it, because one has to live with lots of shit that one doesn’t like, and it’s all the better if there’s something good thrown in with it, which there is in this case. You’d make a shitty husband.
He already is a shitty husband. ;D
Thanks for bringing attention to Constance Mcmillen. I am down in Portland and had not heard anything about it. I followed your lead and Emailed the school district.
Keep up the good work
This has been a great thread of discussion, all of this. Thanks everyone for some good reads! D.I.B.: just lighten;) ^up^ and have fun with your hubby and just Be already, you know? The second one with the friend & his fiance’: they’ll figure it out after a while that gettin’ married wasn’t such a bright idea and Chatroulette lady is three weeks away from porno 😉 lol. Constance? F*** ’em. Go to your prom and just bring a knife. Keith Richards would do that;) lol. Spring Is Here Again;).
I’m curious:
So, would we have any sympathy for DIB if she were a double-below-ankle amputee?
Or if the genders were reversed??
However, gotta agree with other minority opinion here: WTF was she doing snooping on his computer? – thereby giving him cause to have trust issues, and write his own “my wife of 11 years sneaks around checking computer files, I don’t think I can trust her again,*” letter to Dan.
*- “and I just bought her some sweet running shoes, too”
Call to Itawamba principal made. I’m happy to work the phones for you any time, Dan. You never fail to rock.
Hmmm…”Didn’t Cover His Tracks Very Well”…”I don’t know if I can live with knowing that he gets a hard-on for every running-shoe-wearing woman who goes by.”…”I feel physically sick to my stomach knowing that I didn’t really know who he was all this time.”
What self-absorbed crap. I’d say that DIB’s husband would probably be better off without the snooping, reality-show-mentality wench and maybe should find himself a fellow kinksterette with a nice running shoe collection.
Why-o-why did Constance McMillen even ask permission? Why-o-why didn’t she just show up at the damned prom with her *friend*? Who gives a shit who she goes to the prom with? But when you ask permission, you have to be prepared to hear “no”. Just don’t ask.
@140 Because she knew the school district already had a standing ban on homosexual couples at prom and if she had just shown up with her girlfriend and in a tux she wouldn’t have been allowed in. She asked permission because it was a polite way of letting the school authorities know that she’d be coming with her girlfriend.
DIB: i understand how, after 11 yrs, you feel betrayed; i believe that’s the real reason you’re creeped-out. But honestly, come down off your high horse and indulge your husband – please. From here on out, sex could get infrequent and adding some zest doesn’t hurt. Just think if it was a bustier or a pair of sexy bikini panties he was fetishing about… what’s the difference? Get counselling for your 11 yr *betrayal* and then enjoy your husband. …and stop snooping on his computer!
@141 …i said “don’t ask” because, having prior knowledge of what the school’s position was should have cued Constance to NOT ask. Why tempt others to think they can try to control your future? She should have just gone to the prom and met her g/f there. No asking permission. This is 2010.
@ 143
It’s a bummer to be returned from your own prom (or told at the entrance that you can come in but your date can’t) so it’s understandable why she didn’t want to risk it. And maybe her gf isn’t attending the same school, so she wasn’t able to meet her there.
Toews:The act of boring a new hole in a human being solely for fucking it with your penis.3 ways to use toews.1 Allan toews more than he should.2 I toewed that fucker!3 Forget about Meisja’s mouth,vag and ass.I toewed her! James Schenk Silver Spring,Maryland
Oh please, this isn’t the 1950’s. We ALL male and female enjoy “looking” from time to time. There’s nothing wrong with looking so long as you’re not being too obvious about it. It’s human nature to enjoy the view.
Do you really think that if Hugh Jackman’s perfect butt walked by me in tight jeans I wouldn’t have a good, discreet look, and that my current guy wouldn’t know it, grin about it, and tease me? Of course I would. Of course he would and we’d have a good laugh about it.
So your man has a fetish for women in sneaks. Okay, you can look at it in two ways. One, you can get all wound up and see every woman he looks at in sneaks as competition or two, you can recognize his little obsession for what it is, a small kink, indulge him at home by wearing your sneaks in bed sometimes and let it go at that.
If you are smart you’ll do the latter, indulge him.
Looking isn’t touching.
A person’s libido doesn’t automatically turn off the day they go monogamous. Male or female you still respond sexually to other people sometimes. That’s sexual biology 101.
When I am committed to someone I always make it very clear that we have an understanding. We can both look all we want, fantasize all we want, but we don’t touch, period. We save up that sexual energy, take it back home and find a way to dissipate it that we will both enjoy.
Fantasy keeps the libido alive. So long as your guy isn’t actually having clandestine sex with all those women in running sneakers you’ve got nothing to worry about.
Do yourself a favor. Go out and buy yourself a bunch of really cool sneaks, including some of those silly ones with high heels. Your man will love you for it and you will certainly reap the benefits of doing so time and time again.
It’s a small kink and an easy one to fulfill so GO for it, and stop worrying so much about whether or not he’s “looking” at the women he sees in sneaks. So long as that looking leads to wild, sneaker wearing sex with YOU then it’s all good for both of you!
Enjoy!
I just told them that the Bible also says that they shouldn’t fuck their siblings, but they don’t let that stop them.
Dear Dumbfounded in Brooklyn
I feel your consternation for I too found out my (ex)husband:
1. Also spends large number of hours jacking off with the computer
(which explains why he is unwilling to pick up the kids from school, etc.)
2. Led me into marriage with him fully knowing this was a huge part of his life, but alas I knew (close to) nothing.
3. Chose to lead a separate secret life over intimacy with his spouse.
I also question why he didn’t trust me to reveal this side of himself, leading to self doubt (am I not trustworthy? Judgemental?) I now believe he made this choice NOT BECAUSE HE WAS EMBARRISED, but because SECRECY IS PART OF HIS THRILL.
Yes, he chose porn over me. You are joining the club. DIB, after eleven years you found one secret; there are more, but do you want to know? Does he stop for a quickie at the strip club on the way to the store? Do they know him by name at the neighborhood liquor store? Just how does he launder his money and lingerie? My own confusion and depression over finding the secrets and disgusting stuff led me to adopt the US Military’s policy of “Don’t ask, Don’t tell.” It was my strategy for keeping my head buried in the sand.
Face it DIB. The foundation of your marriage is based on deceit. Your husband knows this because he built it. He knew your relationship was being built over a bed of quicksand and he never bothered to tell you. Do you really believe it is up to you to save this marriage?
My advice differs from Mr. Dan Savage’s. Dan ponders “if you actually ever loved him” which is a good point. My guess is that you do love the person your spouse pretended to be. He never bothered in eleven years to show you who he really is. So maybe in fact you don’t love this self absorbed deceiving perverted lying jerk.
Mr. Savage also addresses you as Prudie. This insinuates that your husband’s obsessions are normal while your repulsions of them are not. Society has norms. You, my dear are within them, your husband is not. Erstwhile, explain the secrecy. His secrets have now become your secrets. His shame is now yours. For some unexplainable turn, he is not the embarrassed one with loss of dignity, you are.
Forgive him and make your marriage work? Your husband spends “large numbers of hours a week” indulging his perverse desires. Does he spend anywhere near the same number of hours weekly saving HIS marriage? During his off time, are you in his thoughts? How hard can you work saving something while your husband is working diligently to destroy it? Because I’ve “been there, done that”, let me tell you how it went for me and will probably go for you.
Counseling, he promises to change, to stop lying, you have small children, you want to believe him, you stay in the marriage. Fast forward three years or so—-You find out the only thing that has changed is his hiding places. He has been lying and deceiving you all along again, silly you.
Another counselor—oh, this one tells you it is all your fault for what? Not being accepting or being prudish, for what maybe wanting the first run of his sexual desire??? Anyway, it’s your fault. But again, he makes promises, you have school aged children, a mortgage, a passable relationship…..
A few more years…… Do you really think anything has changed? Only your self confidence and sanity have dwindled, because you are never sure when he is telling the truth. Do you smell alcohol on his breath? What did you find under his car seat that made your stomach turn? Are you imagining things? Did you really want to spend your life looking the other way? Your husband doesn’t look at you with desire, his desire is already spent with the shoe catalog.
Acquaintances ask if you are really married, they’ve never seen your husband. He doesn’t accompany you to events, he uses that time to jack off with his paper friends.
Maybe some man will sense your loneliness, maybe you will have an affair. He is the catalyst. You remember what it feels like to be important to your lover. Now look, you have been unfaithful and ruined a perfectly good marriage. This will be the message the children get. Your husband will want to save the marriage. Counseling!! He’ll change, he’ll stop lying! He is a hero! Maybe you are just finally fed up with his bullshit. My, your reservoir was deep, but it is finally full.
As a single woman, you may find that Mr. Dan Savage is correct in stating that shoot, men are just like this. Because others will deceive you, trick you, tell you they love you, want to marry you, and if you are fortunate or maybe a little smarter this time around, you will find out that they are………..keeping a private, secret life that is more important to them than you ever will be. Some secret addiction, And SECRECY makes it even more exciting for him.
DIB, I think eleven years was enough.
The challenge now is coping with the loneliness, learning how to trust, recognizing and acting upon deal breakers, and getting over the bitterness of lies and deceit. Not an easy task.
Your other option? Look the other way, question your sanity, expect the addiction to escalate, shield your children, spend your life force in denial and posing to be a happily married woman, take anti depressants, they help. Forfeit your own sexuality. Take the blame. Model this to your sons and daughters.
Jeez, I wish there were other options, maybe he’ll change…..
Dear Dusty.
You are a controlling, undeserving, lying, ignorant, moronic bitch who doesn’t deserve to have any person as her husband. Let alone somebody who is willing to put up with the sheer amount of bullshit you just spouted there.
Your husband had and has a right to seek out sexual fulfillment. If he’s not getting that from you, which I assume he hasn’t been, then he certainly has a right to fantasize about other women.
You are ignorant and stupid because you knowingly entered into a relationship with somebody who enjoyed jerking off while looking at pictures of women. ie. you entered into a relationship with a sex-positive heterosexual male. He didn’t lead you into a marriage, you willingly chose to be married to him, and if you expected him to never want to think about other women then you are the one who is an ignorant, deluded fool. He was respecting you by not telling you things that might have bothered you.
You husband didn’t choose porn over you. You chose not to pursue intimacy with him, and no rational person would ever blame him for seeking that out from other sources if you aren’t willing to provide it. I’m surprised that he bothered to stay with you at all if you started to give him ultimatums as though he was a child.
Who cares if he visits strip clubs? Why do you care if the people at the liquor store know his name? Drinking does not imply that a person is an alcoholic, and being in a relationship does not give you the right to force the other person follow your moral standards. That’s called abuse when men do it, but strangely not when women expect the right to order their partners around.
You’re the one who built your relationship on deceit by lying to your husband and pretending that you were okay with his porn.
Your husband, as you described him, and as DIB has described hers, is well within social norms for anybody who isn’t a religious fanatic. And if you are a religious person in any way, shape or form, then you deserve whatever pain you are feeling, because I don’t have sympathy for delusional fools.
You were already unfaithful to your husband when you let your insecurities get in the way of what you pretended was a happy marriage.
Your an anti-sex fanatical religious zealot, and any man who knew that about you would do well to stay far far away from you.
Or else, you know, your secret hatred of porn and your jealous need to control any woman you find threatening might lead you to build up a secret life where you pretend that you are okay with the behaviour that you signed off on when you agreed to be the partner of your husband.
A running shoe fetish? That is fabulous…you could wear comfortable shoes ALL THE TIME and have great sex.
Jeesh, boogaloo, either you know Dusty from elsewhere or you’re reading an awful lot into her comment.