Savage Love

1. Right on with the advice, Dan, especially to FART. If someone farted in my mouth and they had the gall to laugh at me, it’d be over and done with then and there. Like you said, that sort of response can only come after you’ve been with someone for ages.

   As for CLG, sorry, but I do judge her on the fact that she tried to pass her cheating off as rape. Accusing people of rape is a pretty serious offense, much worse of the actual cheating, not only because of how it discredits real rape victims but also (as you rightly pointed out) because of the repercussions it could have for the accused. Crying “rape!” to save one’s own skin is a really gross thing to do, and there’s good reason her ex hasn’t contacted her.

2. Great column Dan! And as a daughter who’s Dad likes to hit on and hook up with girls my age, she will get past it. But no details please FDAKB!

3. FDAKB could benefit from looking at things from his daughter’s perspective.

   How would he feel if she started dating one of his close friends? Chances are he wouldn’t be as understanding as he wants his daughter to be.

4. Doesn’t FART get any credit for his hilarious pen name?

5. I agree with Dan that FART’s crime is not his reaction to the “incident,” as he was clearly trying to minimize the awkwardness with humor. The real problem is his inability to read social cues. His partner was obviously horrified, so the laughter and flippancy just made him look insensitive. Which he may or may not be, but this guy doesn’t yet know him well enough to know if this was an isolated incident of assholery. I don’t know if I’d have dumped FART, but it would probably have bothered me.

   As for FDAKB, he doesn’t mention exactly how old his daughter and her friend are, but based on the information provided (the girlfriend told FDAKB about how much money his daughter spent shopping), it would seem that he’s still financially responsible for her in some way. So these girls are probably pretty young. If I were in my late teens or early twenties and my FATHER was cruising my friends, I would be totally disgusted and creeped out. Good luck getting her to feel comfortable with that. Provided his girlfriend is of age, FDAKB can of course do as he pleases, but he needs to accept a damaged relationship with his daughter as the price he’s going to pay. If he’s not willing to do that, he’d better get a new girlfriend.

6. Not excusing the behaviour of the farter, but some people use laughter as a tool to ease a stressful situation. The LW might want to delve into this bit of his psyche and make some changes henceforth so that he won’t make this same mistake again.

   As for breaking up via text message, this is such a coward’s way out. I do not understand how anyone can be intimate with someone, then turn around and electronically dump them. This is the lowest of the low. He needs to see Oz for a new heart.

7. I disagree Dan, with your advice to FART. I think humour is perfectly acceptable in this situation. Am I old fashioned to think that rimming, while enjoyable, is not the most respectable past time? A respectful response is difficult to muster, I would have thought, considering the circumstances. I think Mr Rimmer has a right to be annoyed etc, but he lacks a sense of humour. I woud suggest Mr Rimmee keep being semi- innapropriate and when someone comes along who finds this equally funny (I do) then that’s Mr Rimmee’s match.

8. What everyone needs to realize in the FDAKB situiation is that he’s essentially ended the friendship between his daughter and her friend. They have to build a new relationship, one that has far less discussion of intimate details, and little to no discussion of who they’re dating. Once they can build a new, more distanced relationship, they can all be more comfortable, but it will be awkward until then.

9. Like yelling “EW! EWWWW! EW!” is so socially sensitive.

10. “They don’t cover this in sex ed, I realize, but the average idiot knows there’s just one thing a person wants from someone who’s just “unexpectedly” farted in his mouth, even just a little, and it’s not an e-card. It’s a lengthy, abject, mortified, immediate, and heartfelt apology.”

    *No*: you aplogize for things that are your fault and not accidents. Assuming the fart was an accident, FART’s response was fine.

    Should FART have been more sensitive to the cues his partner was giving off? Maybe, but the cues his partner gave off were indicative of “whiny bitch”. You don’t demand an apology from someone who has just mortified themselves.

11. So, CLG, you’re older and wiser now. So is your ex. I’m sure he thinks of you from time to time, but to be honest, i bet he’s glad to be rid of you, since you cheated and lied. Not the best way to end a relationship. You moved on; so did he. Leave him alone now.

    You say you’re happily married, yet thinking of contacting your old flame. Huh. Stop deluding yourself into thinking that he would want to be friends with you! Stop deluding yourself into thinking that your husband would want anything to do with your ex. Think of your children, CLG, and don’t place them anywhere but ahead of your desires to rekindle any type of relationship with the ex. If you are happily married, CLG, you will leave the ex in the past, where he belongs.

    You seem to have too much spare time on your hands, CLG. Go do some volunteer work to take up your spare moments so that you don’t have any time to think those stupid thoughts of reconnecting with any ex, and concentrate all your love and devotion on your husband and children, and keep those “happy marriage” fires burning.

12. I think the heart of the matter is: was it a smelly fart? If you let off a stinker into someone’s mouth, laughter is probably not the best medicine. On the other hand, if it was a neutral fart, freaking out is a huge over-reaction.

13. I’m taking FART’s side on this one. Sounds like this little Rimmer is a total queen who takes sex way too seriously. Rimmee farted, apologized, and then showered Rimmer with affection to make up for it, laughing off the awkwardness. I’d like to think that’s the response any reasonable person who is comfortable with rim jobs would give. In any case, it’s not like this guy accidently took a shit in his mouth. I’ve had buddies fart in my face before as a joke, and I don’t queen out over it.

    As for failing to read and properly respond to Rimmer’s emotions, how does one respond to emotions that are dramatic and exaggerated? Sounds like these two aren’t a good match anyways.

    “A lengthy, abject, mortified, immediate, and heartfelt apology.” Seriously, Dan?

14. I agree with Blighty (@4)! Flatulent Anilingus Result: Termination should definitely get points for that name!

15. Sex can, and should, be funny from time to time. I remember the first time I queefed in front of my fiance. We both laughed for a good 15 minutes before we got back into it. Another time I bought a package of colored condoms, and the condom matched the sheets he had on his bed, making his cock play the ol’ disappearing act. We had fun with that for awhile before we finally got back to sex.

    I gotta take FART’s side here, a little humor after something embarassing like that isn’t a bad thing. It’s not like FART excreted on his lover’s head while cackling like a maniac.

16. I also wonder if Fart’s “boyfriend” wouldn’t have dumped him anyway. After all, he said he was seeing other people and they only had 3 dates. Don’t people usually date longer than that before having sex and expecting a commitment? (I mean, assuming that the goal is a relationship and not a one-night stand or a friends-with-benefits deal.)

17. @7: Am I old fashioned to think that rimming, while enjoyable, is not the most respectable past time?

    My thoughts exactly! Sex is pretty hilarious when you think about it, especially when your mouth is on someone’s ass. FART says he apologized through his laughter and then — most importantly — pulled his partner in for a kiss right away, showing a level of comfort with bodily functions his partner perhaps does not share. Sounds exactly right to me, and hopefully FART will find someone in the future who has a similar laidback approach to things.

    And is FDAKB actually upset that his daughter isn’t as close to his new girlfriend as she used to be? I like my stepmom, but I don’t treat her like one of my regular friends. No matter how accepting the daughter eventually is of the new relationship, her friend is not really her friend anymore.

18. You don’t think the rimmer was using ‘the incident’ and the rimee’s reaction to it as excuses to get out of a relationship that just wasn’t doing it for him?

19. I was under the impression that when you put your tongue to another person’s anus, you were willingly accepting the risks. That is why rimming is a no go zone for me, on both receiving and giving ends. Blech.

20. FART: Laughing and treating the situation like it’s no big deal, so you don’t have to slink off to different rooms and ruin the night? Fine. The main source of people’s embarrassment is other people’s embarrassment. An e-card? Ew, I wouldn’t even want one of those for my birthday.

    FDAKB: There’s only one thing for the daughter to do. Start dating one of the father’s colleagues or bosses.

21. Anyone who puts their mouth within 5cm of their partners asshole and is “mortified” when an accidental fart occurs shouldn’t be rimming anyone.

    Although he didn’t read the situation well, FART’s reaction seemed like a very affectionate, embarrassed laugh followed by more apologetic affection. I probably would’ve reacted just as he did.

22. @11
    You are delusional. People can and do apologize for things that are not in their control all the time. They do so because it helps smooth over awkward/embarrassing/hurtful/disgusting social situations.

    Moreover, we know that farting, as in FART’s case, is not entirely involuntary. You DO have some measure of control…you can feel a fart building up most of the time. BTW, your body is…YOUR BODY. You need to take a little bit of responsibility for it, even when it doesn’t quite work out right.

    11, your standard would end up in stupid situations:
    “Oops, I accidentally tripped you! Sorry but that’s hilarious! No, I won’t give you a real apology because it was an accident!”
    “Oops, I accidentally peed the bed! Sorry, but that’s hilarious! No I won’t give you a real apology because it was an accident!”
    “Oops, I just ran over your dog! That wasn’t hilarious but I’m not really all that sorry because it was an accident!”

23. I think FART handled the situation as gracefully as one could under such circumstances, and should just keep looking for a more suitable match. Good riddance, indeed.

    I would, however, be TOTALLY SKEEVED if my Dad started dating one of my friends. Sorry, but there’s plenty of other fish in the sea; catch one who’s not my friend. Totally uncool. Gross gross gross. More gross than a fart in the mouth.

24. Funny that CLG should creep me out the most in this column.

    So when she was with her ex-boyfriend, she looked up a previous ex-boyfriend and had sex with him? Now she’s married, and thinking about looking up her ex-boyfriend? I see where this is heading.

25. I think FDAKB has a right to be upset, at least for awhile. Aside from the obvious creepiness factor, there’s the fact that she’s probably shared all kinds of deeply personal information with her friend – things she wouldn’t at all like her dad to know. And since her friend has already proved untrustworthy in a small way, there’s no guarantee she won’t spill the beans in a bigger way.

26. FDAKB is selfish. You’re a parent, and your relationship with your daughter should come first. If you really valued your daughter like a decent father should, you wouldn’t be sniffing around her friends in the first place. She is right to distance herself from you. It can be very painful, but when a parent causes more grief than good in your life, you have to create space and start protecting yourself from further emotional turmoil.

27. What the hell do you expect when you stick your tongue in someone’s asshole???

28. Now THAT’S a column! One, two three right outta the park. Love ‘em Dan. Thanks for this

    Morales of the stories

    1 – e-cards do not an apology make

    2 – cheating and lying while being married are good reasons not to “still know each other” with an ex.

    3 – there’s no accounting for taste – but there is for bad taste, and banging your daughter’s friend behind her back while coercing her into being “comfortable” with lies and betrayal goes beyond mere passive aggression and straight to asshole narcissism. What you’re the ONLY one allowed to be happy on godz green earth?!?!

29. I rarely disagree with you, but I don’t think FART did so wrong. If you can’t deal with the risk of something nasty, especially a momentary loss of control of the sphincter you are vigorously stimulating, then don’t stick your tongue in somebody’s ass. Perhaps FART could have overdone the sensitivity a bit more, but I think it was well short of a final deal-breaker.

30. You might consider NOT sticking your tongues in one another’s butt until, as Dan puts it, “after you’ve demonstrated to the person you’re dating that you’re a fundamentally decent, considerate person, worthy of their time and affections.”
    That would pretty well deal with FART’s non-problem.

31. I think FART sounds like a hilarious, smart, funny guy who someone else will be lucky to have. An “I’m sorry I farted in your mouth” e-card is one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard of, and if someone sent me one of those (and I otherwise liked the person enough after 3 dates to want to continue seeing them) I would be charmed by the self-effacing humor of it. You’re better off without that guy, FART.

32. I’m a straight woman, and my experience with rimming is somewhat limited. However, while I think the idea of someone farting in my mouth is really really gross, I also think that putting your mouth in the vicinity of someone’s asshole would put you at a reasonable risk of that happening. People fart involuntarily at inconvenient times – that’s just how life goes. The last time my mouth was anywhere near my ex’s butt, I recall being very aware that he could let one rip and I’d be getting it full in the face. I actually thought the idea was pretty funny. (Ok, I’m a straight woman with a 13-year-old boy apparently trapped inside me.)

    As someone who tends to laugh at life’s grossness in bed, I kind of am more appalled by the reaction of FART’s sex partner here than anything else. The last thing I would ever want to do would be to make someone feel ashamed or uncomfortable over something they no doubt couldn’t control. I can’t imagine how I would feel if someone started shrieking “EW EW EW” in bed because I had a natural biological function. If I was the one reacting (because it is kinda gross), I’d apologize for how I handled it later.

    I’m totally disgusted by CLG. I actually think Dan was way too lenient. This is a woman who needs some serious psychological help.

    As the daughter of a particularly skanky man who would LOVE to be dating one (or all) of my friends, I can’t comment on the last letter – my biases would totally warp anything I could say. (Though I will say this – Did you really have to go there? Millions of women and the only one you wanted to date was someone your daughter considered a close friend? Your happiness hinged on this one human being? – OK, done.)

33. If you’re not married, it’s not cheating! It’s “physically weighing your options.”

34. to the father…. FUCK off! your daughter will never be OK with your girlfriend (and all the other ones that will come after, probably even younger)… and specially not with one that was HER FRIEND! at least you should have picked up someone she did not know, creep. she might just be polite to you and your gf, that’s all you can expect really, how selfish are you?
    old man are just disgusting. showing you daughter that you want to fuck someone like her is not a good way of making her comfortable.
    like many told you already, think of her fucking one of your mates. not so cool eh?

35. I am just alarmed at the “inconsequential” information FDAKB’s girlfriend let go. His daughter bought an expensive dress and she felt in the position to tell the father? Since when did she acquire the right to judge on family finances? Isn’t it a bit early to be the stepmother who wants the money all for herself? I’d run for the hills if I were FDAKB.

36. I’ve only given the occasional rim job and never had anyone fart in my mouth. Nonetheless I’m surprised a person could be so offended by a fart while simultaneously making direct tongue-to-anus contact. It just seems like once you have your tongue on/in someone’s asshole you’ve pretty much decided to give them a pass for any grossness related to their butt.

37. I think that the response to FART was a little too harsh. Sure maybe he can be accused of not picking up on a few cues, and maybe he deserved to be told so sternly, but being dumped seems over the top. He farted, he did not drop a load. Dumping him because he tried to make light of the situation thinking that it was best to remove drama from it is way too much.

    Still, I think its all for the best. If he’s the kind of person who freaks out that easily, I don’t think he’s a good match for FART. Find someone a little less antsy.

38. @ 34
    “showing you daughter that you want to fuck someone like her is not a good way of making her comfortable. “

    Bingo. Wtf did he expect?

39. JrzWrld (32) – Hi, Chelsea! Go ahead and spill the beans on Dad!

40. Dan is right on FART: the point isn’t at all how HE thought it was oh-so-funny. The point is that he completely ignored his partner’s reaction and just bulled ahead with a light “that’s SO funny!” theme. Clearly, the person who got farted on didn’t think so from the beginning (and Jesus Fucking Christ people, rimming is NOT an invitation to fart in someone’s mouth! What is wrong with you all?!). So, do-over: is the correct response, even if you think it’s hilarious, to laugh at the other person and pull a “c’mon, you know that was funny!” or is the correct response to sincerely apologize because, y’know, you actually care how the other person feels and they have clearly indicated those feelings to you? FART’s sin is that he decided it was funny and never considered how the other guy felt, and then kept hammering on how goddamn funny it was when said other guy made it clear that he thought just the opposite. Such a dolt gets broken up with via text message because, hey, he doesn’t get it anyway, so why bother talking to him?
    Bottom line: yes, FART is responsible for his own butt. Yes, farts happen. NO, the right response is not “hmm…what do I, the farter, think about this.” The right response is “hey, you OK? No? Well, let me apologize then…”
    I guess some people on this thread also find it hilarious when others trip and fall, or get whacked in the face by accident, since “hey, that was funny. What? You’re not laughing? You suck!” Right?

41. @22, the “delusion” you’re perceiving in @11’s note likely derives from the fact that @11 was addressing CLG, the LW who’s seeking absolution for cheating and making a false rape accusation, not FART, the one who gassed his rimmer. Applicable advice differs considerably, no?

42. I’m with #6 on the poor fart episode. Better he find out now that the guy he’s with doesn’t have the same sort of humor before he’s accused of being insensitive. The same kind of thing happens with women all the time (“pussy farts”), and straight guys handle it without blinking. Humor gets some of us through some pretty awkward situations and others just sort of freeze up.

    As far as the guy dating his daughter’s girlfriend – most women don’t want to hear about their father’s sex life. And especially in your 20s, women spend a lot of time going over details of their lives/sex lives. There’s only so much you can share with a friend who’s dating your dad – and information flows uphill, too, so the girlfriend can go back and tell him things. Maybe not to tattle, just to share, as women do with their boyfriends. That’s another reason the daughter doesn’t feel comfortable with the situation.

    I’m not saying he should break up with his much-younger girlfriend but DON’T BE SURPRISED if the situation NEVER improves. The daughter lost someone she could confide in and she may never want that situation again with this friend even if the two split. And as Dan says, she has a right to feel this way.

43. 1. I completely agree w/27. If you’re gonna stick your tongue in a guy’s asshole, where do you come off bitching if he farts? Ridiculous!

    2. If CLG is happily married & has 2 kids, why in the world is she even thinking about the ex? When does she get the time?

    3. FDAKB seems to be living the “American Beauty” scenario, and my advice to him would be, there are a gazillion women out there; why don’t you try dating one who isn’t your daughter’s friend?

44. @10 “Sorry” means “I wish that didn’t happen to you” – accident or not. Are you unfamiliar with using that word with people who have lost loved ones?

    My 3 year old has more emotional maturity…

45. @ 41 …thank you for your supportive message. I had to read through #22’s post twice, thinking, whaaaaaaaaat?? Maybe #22 needs glasses?

    As for the fart episode, i’ve re-read the LW’s side of things, i tend to agree with posters here who disagree with Dan. Making like you are grossed out when you yourself have decided to lick someone’s butt is beyond ridiculous.

    If you haven’t both laughed and cried (and everything in between) during sex by the time you’re 30, then you’re missing out on the profoundness of the act.

    I stick with my earlier statement about the “EWWWW guy” breaking up via text messaging, which i find even more disgusting than an accidental misplaced fart. Electronic heartbreak is such crass, immature behaviour. I’m kind of surprised that Dan didn’t comment on it.

46. FDAKB = Drama Prince. Dump the kid, apologize for being a creep to the daughter and get another girlfriend.

47. Dan really whiffed on the FART issue. As it were.

48. Ladies, for those skeeved out at the idea of your dad dating your friends, grow up.

    Your dads are men, and men want to get with your friends–the good looking ones, anyway. Accept it. Just because men age to 50-something does not mean they stop finding 25 year olds really, really hot. Your attempts to desexualize your father into some asexual avuncular dude is bullshit.

    And let’s put another myth to crypt: Men do not find middle-aged women really, really hot just because they love them and married them 30 years ago. So, no, your mom’s plumping ass and crows feet are not driving dad wild. (And spare me the outlier-on-the-bell-curve Demi Moore cries of the heart, okay?)

    Given that, when your middle-aged, divorced father finds a mutual connection and happiness with a gal, whether your age or not, it does not make him anything except a man. Stamping your foot and talking about how it skeeves you shows you–not him–have a problem to deal with.

    Guys who freak about about their mom dating anyone are similarly immature and need to STFU.

49. That LW who cheated on a boyfriend, cried rape, and now wants to revisit her horrifying behavior by calling up the victim, er, ex-boyfriend? She needs to stop.

    That LW is a runny, smelly, shitty, shitty, shitty piece of shit. Seriously. Crying “rape” to avoid the consequences of having cheated?!?!?!?

    Wow. Just wow. Sociopathic shit right there, folks.

    Lady, leave that ex-boyrfriend alone. He is well clear of you, and better for it. Try and make things right by doing something right for the larger world. You can start by *not* contacting ex-boyfriends who likely want nothing to do with your crazy, harmful self.

    Then go get some therapy, you narcissistic monster.

50. 22:

    LTR.

51. FDAKB – As a 20-something, I’d be mortified if my dad was emotionally immature enough to consider someone my age an equal partner, and nauseated if he was pedophilic enough to bang someone my age. While I wouldn’t want to say something like that to a family member, I’d probably cut them both out of my life immediately. So, your daughter sounds like she’s handling you being a creep rather well.

52. I dissagree with Dan about FART.

    @15, You said it best.

    FART, you’re fine babe. You did nothing wrong. It just wasn’t a match. Good riddance for sure.

    (e-cards are kind of lame though)

53. FART, the bottom line is your date didn’t like you enough to stick around. Had my gf farted in my face on date #3, I would have been pretty grossed out, but even after an inappropriate laugh and e-card, I would have forgave and forgot, because I would have liked her enough to want us to move past the incident. Your fart was his first excuse (and a really big one) to get out of the budding relationship, so he took it.

54. @51

    Woah. Do you know what paedophillia is? There was a column about it a while back – maybe you need to look at that? Dating someone younger than you does NOT equate paedophillia. My dad is in a relationship with someone 21 years younger than him (exactly the same number of years as between my mum and myself, actually). She’s 23, he’s 44. She makes him happy, he makes her happy, it’s all good. The age isn’t – or shouldn’t be – an issue. The issue is the fact that it’s one of her FRIENDS he’s dating, which pretty much means she loses a friend.

55. @48 The problem isn’t that he’s an older man dating a younger female. The problem is that he’s dating his daughters close friend. If you can’t figure out the difference, then well, grow up yourself?

    And heck, men might be attracted to hot young twenty-somethings, but few know how to go about that in a non-creepy way. You are not a hot young twenty-something, and do not know how creepy middle-age men (men in general for that matter) can be.

56. @48 – Were it me, my problem would not be with the age difference. Couldn’t care less about that, though some of us actually do continue to appreciate and be attracted to our partners throughout the course of the natural aging process.

    My problem would be with a parent having a romantic/intimate/sexual relationship with a friend of mine. That would cross a major, major, major line. I would definitely feel invaded and unsafe, and it would affect the parent/child relationship for me for a long, long time.

    I feel strongly that parents and children should respect boundaries with each other as far as getting involved with personal friends. Kids shouldn’t date their parents’ friends; parents shouldn’t date their kids’ friends.

    At the end of the day, if someone is in love, in lust, or for whatever reason feels they have to cross this boundary, fine for them. Simply, I feel that they do it at the expense of the comfortability and safety of the parent/child relationship.

    Certainly, there are kids who DON’T feel as I do about their parents and would be okay about it – but a parent can’t know that without asking first, and the failure of this father to ask first was a major one. Though I really can’t imagine it in reality, were this ever me as a parent, no matter how I felt about a friend of my child, I would never in a million years consider taking it past friendship without having an honest conversation with my child first.

    In this case, it’s clear to me that the dad values his relationship with his girlfriend more than his relationship with his daughter. He should not be condemned, but he should definitely not expect her to be comfortable.

57. @48 The problem isn’t that he’s an older man dating a younger female. The problem is that he’s dating his daughters close friend. If you can’t figure out the difference, then well, grow up yourself?

    And heck, men might be attracted to hot young twenty-somethings, but few know how to go about that in a non-creepy way. You are not a hot young twenty-something, and do not know how creepy middle-age men (men in general for that matter) can be.

58. I disagree with the fart issue. What happened was funny. He said he tried to stifle his laughter but it was just a naturally funny thing. That doesn’t mean he’s insensitive and inconsiderate. No one here Dan included has ever come across a funny situation all of a sudden and had to try to suppress laughter, a gut reaction? It was an accident.

    And if you rim you have to expect that a fart or something worse might accidentally pop out. I mean you’re sticking your tongue in and around the a**hole. We all know what comes out of there. You’re willing to taste s*** BUT NOT A FART. Why are you surprised when a butt does what a butt is supposed to do? I think the rimmer overreacted.

59. @42 Pussy farts aren’t really comarable to ass farts, since pussy farts reallya re just plain old air, while ass farts are stinky methane and other horridness.
    Just sayin’

60. @48 So what’s the window now for being considered hot? 18 to 25 and you’re done, now step aside and allow the latest crop of hotties to take over?

61. The thought of finding oneself dating, or marrying, someone like CLG is truly terrifying. I wonder about her husband.

62. @57 – “And heck, men might be attracted to hot young twenty-somethings, but few know how to go about that in a non-creepy way. You are not a hot young twenty-something, and do not know how creepy middle-age men (men in general for that matter) can be.”

    Please. Like most twentysomething women apparently do these days, you probably find men above the age of 40 to be gross for simply existing and still having a libido. Payback will come when you’re older yourself.

63. @48, that’s some righteous stuff. But as an uncle, I must object to your equating “avuncular” and “asexual.” Asexual with the nephew or niece – I’m totally with you up to that point, but even in that respect, “avuncular” can hardly be MORE asexual than “parental.” In either case the sexuality isn’t directed to (or, frankly, flaunted around) the child or nephew/niece as the case may be.

64. @48: What you’ve described isn’t a man, it’s a vampire, leeching the youth out of people too stupid to know any better than tossing them aside. Or getting tossed aside when they get laid off and have to become a Wal Mart greeter, or start using a walker.

65. 1.) Dan often says that he doesn’t believe there is “one true love” out there for everyone but rather you can find happiness with all sorts of people. As many people stated, there are other fish in the sea. So with the dad dating his daughters “good friend” it very well is crossing lines. Chances are they WILL NOT last very long. Knowing that, he also must have known that his dad would be upset and that it had potential to ruin their friendship or else they wouldn’t have kept it secret for so long.

    2.) I am a young woman who does not have a lot of female friends. I have an easier time making friends with men, however I do have that one close best/good female friend. A girl that I can share my secrets to and vice versa. Go out and have fun with, and double date with as well. If she started to date my father, which I would be highly uncomfortable with and that would be a tremendous loss to me if it ended our friendship.

    3.) On that note but from a different take, my good female friend mentioned, has a problem with being faithful to men and jumps from relationship to relationship quite often. Even if my father had the “best of intentions” with her, I would know if she didn’t with him. I would feel loyalty to each person and I would stay out of their relationship so that I didn’t share things that could ruin their budding relationship if this time it was different and they were “in love”. Because you just never know. So I feel the daughter was right in just backing away and letting them go at it, yet still making her feelings known.

66. FART was in the right. His boy should loosen up.

67. and anyway, the boy was seeing other guys so not much of a loss really

68. Dan is pretty spot on with FART. It’s not that he farted inside the guy’s mouth – it’s that he essentially made a non-apology by laughing the whole time.

    He then followed it up with a funny e-card?

    Third date? Yeah, I’d dump him too. One of my big concerns would be that he would find it “funny” enough to do again.

    I’ve rimmed/been rimmed plenty of times. And you know what? No farting by either party. What is with you people who seem to imply he should have somehow expected this?

69. I don’t see the message FART got as totally dumping him — I think there’s still room there to write back, apologize now, and ask to see the guy again (if FART wanted to.)
    I haven’t seen anyone else write this though, so I guess the message here is if you dump me by text message, you’re going to have to be clearer than “I’m not sure about this…”

70. These gals simpering about how dad cannot date their age-group/friends because, well, for some reason related to said gals’ feelings of butthurtedness have some personal issues to address.

    If my parent dated an adult friend of mine, and they were both happy and fine with it, what more do I have to say about it? Nothing, because it is not really my business, any more than my parent could depth-charge any partner choices of mine.

    It is called adulthood, folks, embrace it. Others get the same choices you have.

    (Oh, and 51, pedophilia? You need help.)

71. Ohoho, #48 just WISHES he could get a piece of that 20-year-old ass.

72. Dan’s reaction to FART seems absurdly extreme. Inability to read social cues? That’s harsh. At worst, I would say these two are incompatible because they take different approaches to awkward situations. But to call FART insensitive or clueless seems harsh to me. He used humor to aleviate the tension of the situation, and did show sincere regret. That’s a totally appropriate reponse that shows emotional maturity on his part. As for the man who dumped FART, he will be a very lonely man if he rejects people for such small “crimes.” But then, perhaps he wants to be alone and used the farting as a way to excape and put the blame on FART.

73. I think this is the first time I’ve disagreed with Dan. I also think he was too hard on FART. Really, where was the harm? Sure, maybe he should have been more apologetic, but if you can’t laugh at a fart what can you laugh at? I suspect the guy just wasn’t that into him, and/or he needs to take himself a little less seriously.

    I feel bad for FDAKB’s daughter, and I think Dan’s advice was spot on. My father has flirted with my friends and dated women younger than me, and it does kind of suck. It does seem an abuse of trust that the daughter’s private business–things she’d only tell a friend–would become the subject of pillow talk between her friend and her dad. But you can’t impose your will on others. Dad can’t make daughter ok with the situation. Best he can do is man up- don’t whine, don’t be sheepish, respect the daughter’s privacy, and don’t expect ever to have the kind of father-daughter relationship you think you deserve. And daughter can’t make dad end the relationship. Nice if they could all move on from this someday, but no guarantee.

    After one of my dad’s relationships with a much younger woman, I (aged 23 at the time) asked him “what would you have done if I brought home a 58 year-old guy?” He said he’d have gone ballistic. We can’t help what we feel, even if we know we’re doing something stupid.

74. My father dates a woman who is only a year older than I am. For me, there are just some things that you never get used to. Sometimes it feels like he may as well want to fuck me. It also reinforces the sad truth: I’m considered too old by men my own age.

    -L

75. I think FART wants a relationship where he and his partner can recognize and laugh at the often gross reality of being a human, whereas his partner wants to be with a man who never farts and who acts like he shits heart-shaped travel soaps. The fart itself may have prevented a protracted and ultimately doomed relationship.

    Because your genital muscles are intrinsically linked to our anal sphincter, during sexual arousal a tiny fart might slip out simply because you are relaxed and engorged down there. Not saying that I would personally find an e-card adorable, but you can’t start a relationship walking on eggshells and I applaud FART’s natural and self-assured response.

76. Ok so I’m not sure about the advice to FART. I think he laughed from being embarassed – not that he laughed at him. That explains the “trying to apologize” part.

    I don’t think FART was a jerk but I don’t blame the guy for dumping him. Personally, after the intial shock and disgust wares off, I would laugh it off and tell him that next time he better warn me. Then make an amazing amount of fart jokes at his expense.
    I understand that some people are very uneasy about gas and don’t ever find it funny. I’m willing to bet that they never found Ren and Stimpy and some of Family Guy very funny either.

77. Once, during orgasm, my girlfriend peed in my mouth. A lot. I wanted her to have a great orgasm, so I kept going… repositioning my mouth so as not to ingest it. She apologized profusely, laughed about it, and apologized more. I told her it was completely fine, not at all her fault, and didn’t bother me in the least. Of course it bothered me, but knowing that she was apologetic gave me the security to know that she really and truly did not mean to do it, and will make an effort to avoid it in the future.

    The apology was important. I didn’t want her to feel bad, and did everything I could to reassure her that I was a-ok, but what can I say… the apology mattered.

78. CLG is a piece of shit! I guess she believes in the good ol’ feminist moto of “A man falsely accused of rape can benefit from the experience.”

    And yet more people are going off about and ripping apart a man that is dating someone that is just younger than him instead?!?

    No, being gay is not a choice, because if it was, I think a lot more guys would be since they know that they’re only 1 lie away from being put in jail and having their lives ruined just so an innocent little “victim” can remain pure in the eyes of society.

    I really wish more women would be falsely accused of rape and found guilty until proven innocent…just so they can get a taste of it.

79. Ok, so maybe not “expected it”, but certainly he must have been aware that it was a possibility. I think that to put your tongue up someone’s ass and then be *that* freaked out by a small, involuntary escape is just weird. And while pussy farts are not really the same composition, and a good deal more common, the idea is the same. It’s like an unexpected belch during an aria, ya know? It’s a surprise, a mood-breaker, and a little embarrassing, and so some people (like me) might find it funny, in a perverse-humor kind of way, and some people find it disgusting and inexcusable. Whether FART found it funny or horrible, he didn’t really seem to value his partner’s feelings.
    Having said that… no one would break up with someone that they were really into over something like that. (Via text, no less). I have a feeling that even if FART had not, you know, farted, or had acted Deeply and Truly Sorry, that short affair wasn’t as promising as FART seems to think. Three dates, you’re getting to know each other, everything is really great, and you break over that?
    Something smells, and it ain’t FART. The ‘dating some other people’ thing is a clear tip-off. The fart was just a handy excuse.
    Regarding FDAKB, I’m 45 and work at a university. There are many hot, hot early twenties young men that I am very, very attracted to… until they start to talk. Whether or not us elderly types find sweet young somethings desirable is hardly even a question. It’s that fact that FDAKB has found his emotional and intellectual match in someone with decades less experience that seems kinda pathetic. And the other fact that he has more or less thrust his sex life into his daughter’s social life. Speaking as someone who both has parents and is one, …ew.
    Let go of the issue about the age difference, and remember that there are thousands of girls his daughter’s age that she doesn’t know. He could date one of them, right? But in order to meet them socially, he’d have to risk looking like a skeegy old dude hitting on young women half his age.
    (Which, you know… if the toupee fits…)
    The reason he’s with *this* girl is that her being his daughter’s friend gave him socially acceptable access. And the fact that he’s found his match in a woman half his age speaks volumes to me about how much he’s grown as a person since he was twenty himself.

80. @41

    No, you’re right. I meant @10. Just a typo.

81. @ 77,
    Uh, you sure it was peeing, and not female ejaculation? You can’t take the lady’s word for it because ejaculating feels like peeing for the woman experiencing it. Orgasm causes involuntary contractions of pelvic muscles, so it’s pretty impossible to pee during orgasm and even for a while after it, until the muscles have gone back to their relaxed state.

82. @78: SL readers focus on a particular question because (1) they relate to it or (2) it’s more nuanced/interesting. CLG’s situation is, hopefully, not that relate-able for most people here (either as accused or accusers), and it’s pretty fucking obvious she’s a piece of shit.

    Also, you’re a psycho. Please get help.

83. Re: lameness of e-cards … they are most definitely lame, but I think that was part of FART’s joke.

84. About FART… eeeh-fucking-yuck!

85. @79. I totally relate to your smug, judgmental attitudes about men who date younger women. I too am smug and judgmental. I know this one guy, for example, who wears eyeglasses. Apparently he can’t see well without them. The fact that he wears eyeglasses speaks volumes about his inability to see. Let me know if you want his email address. You can send him an email mocking him.

86. It’s not that he should have expected it, it’s that he shouldn’t really be surprised…

87. @78
    Being female didn’t protect me from being falsely accused of rape.

88. Re: FART, it happens.

    I’ve had it done to me, and it’s pretty gross and pretty off-putting and the guy got really red-faced, but in my classic way I just said “when I told you to relax, I didn’t mean to relax THIS much”. Then we moved on to other acts.

89. I’m damn sick of creepy older men dating radically younger women with unequal power dynamics. Dating your daughters friend is just another power play on her and on the daughter. So old man, stop being creepy and stay out of your daughter’s friend’s pants.

    I’ve got no problem with power in relationships, I’m active in the BDSM community, but power dynamics need to built from equal footing. Drastic age imbalances rarely make for equal footing.

90. Oh Hilarious…FART…that’s just…a Faux Pas too Far…I have to say, if you’re getting that intimate with someone, you’re sort of beyond the point where you can convincingly claim to be deeply offended. Perhaps FART is emotionally tone deaf, and reacted in a way that ignored how unhappy the guy was, but really to me it looks like the new friend was just looking for an excuse to dump or just wasn’t feeling it. Getting dumped shortly after the first romp is definitely a contender for worst dating experiences…BDTD. If this really was about the accidental gas, the eCard and laughing it off were adequate; if not, then the fartee was too uptight to be rimming.

    Dad on the other hand, is just an ass. It’s fine to go playing in the daughter’s age range, but her FRIEND? C’mon…really, very, very, super-duper insensitive and selfish. Daughter is probably better off without him and the GF in her life…if that’s the kind of caring and consideration they have to offer…yeesh. @46 “drama prince” is probably too kind.

91. @78 Your post makes me hurt with giggles from the sheer hypocrisy.

    First, you spit on the “feminists” who insist that men who are falsely accused of rape benefit from the experience.

    Then you declare that you wish more women were falsely accused of rape so that they will know how it feels.

    I mean, come on. Are you doing this on purpose? Is this an attempt at irony?

92. I agree it’s not good for a parent to get involved with friends of his/her offspring, since (among other reasons) it’s really uncomfortable for the child. Fair enough.

    But this whole idea that it’s inherently “creepy” for older men to date younger women is just plain stupid. First of all, it’s obviously not just the men who want in on this arrangement, right? So do assign some blame to these poor shrinking violets who say “Yes” to the idea. And second, you’d damn well better be as vocally opposed to older women with younger men (an arrangement which arguably makes even less sense, since kids are often no longer a possibility), or else you’re a damned hypocrite.

    Really, all y’all who are freaking out about older men dating younger women really need to take a good look in the mirror, because you’re sounding like embittered middle-aged yentas who screwed up their 20s and 30s and now can’t understand why it’s not a seller’s market anymore. You can rail all you want about how unjust it is that people in general, and men specifically, are more attracted to youthful women.

    But it’s never, ever, ever going to change a damn thing, and only makes you sound like exactly the sort of person no sane man of any age would want to get involved with…not because you’re old, but because of the chip on your shoulder which betrays a fundamentally damaged personality. Maybe YOU’RE the creepy one.

93. P.S. Before the predictable ad homs start up, I’m well under 40, and have never broken the “half your age plus seven rule”. But I also date, fuck, and love whomever I want (among consenting adults), and anyone who finds that “creepy” because of my gender or age is cordially invited to drink Drano.

94. tigele you rock ‘n’ keep on rolling

95. You knew this was dangerous territory, but you really liked the girl! Well its still dangerous territory and you made your choices. You’re acting like it shouldn’t be dangerous territory anymore because ‘you really really wanted to.’ How old are you again? Ask for your daughters forgiveness and understanding instead of lecturing her as though she shouldn’t have a problem with it. You don’t have the righteous high ground here, quit talking like you do and maybe then your daughter will come around. 2 people she trusted lied to her for 5 months, its gonna take a while.

96. @48: Close but not quite. You are right that men never stop appreciating what turned them on in their youth, (It wasn’t pedophilia then, and it isn’t pedophilia now.) However, love and a lifetime together do count for something in terms of finding someone sexy despite wearing the cloak of additional years on this planet. Say rather that our horizons broaden as we age.

    You are totally on the mark about people’s irrational need to desexualize their parents. It’s bullshit. If we didn’t have sex, you damned offspring wouldn’t even exist. It’s bad enough that you put such a huge damper on the old sex life in the early years, what with all the inopportune knocking on the door, waking up crying (or puking, or feverish, or a rash, or growing pains, or, or, or), needing just one more bedtime story, and all that. (I was 40 years old before I finally figured out what Saturday morning cartoons were REALLY for: to provide a diversion, so Mom and Dad could get in a little practice being something more than roommates.) When you get to be 20 and 30 and still go “Ewww…” when you think about Dad possibly having sex, you are being a petulant little asshole kid. Fucking grow up already.

    That said, however, the daughter isn’t totally off base to be a little freaked out over Dad dating her friend. What Dad has done is, he’s rearranged the hierarchy of shared confidences between the three of them. Girlfriends share all manner of details about their lives with each other, details that they would be mortified to have Dad find out. Now, suddenly Dad has a conduit into that channel of information, and his daughter is recalibrating her emotional hierarchies to keep the right people at the right distances.

97. Dan, a fart’s a fart, what’s everyone so uptight about? It was an accident, and for the rimmee to be SO UPTIGHT about someone farting, I mean…you’re FACE is in their ASS. What’s the big frigging deal? Jesus Christ, get over yourselves.

    Oh, and I’d love to see the look on dad’s face should his daughter sleep with his friend. Or the look on the friend’s face should HER father nail her best friend. Ugh, it’s not the age difference that bothers me, just the relationship. Yes, this I’m UPTIGHT about…see how silly farts seem now?

98. @51: So what you are saying is basically that you, as a 20-something, aren’t an adult, and never will be.

    Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent children, stupid. Either you are an adult or you aren’t; and if you are an adult, it isn’t pedophilia to be attracted to you. It wasn’t pedophilia when Dad was 19 and his perfectly natural attraction was to his bride, age 18; it wasn’t pedophilia when Dad was 35 and looking at 20-year-old Playboy models; it isn’t pedophilia when Dad is 50 and divorced and his girlfriend is 22.

    As a 20-something, you completely lack the perspective of what if feels like to be 45, in order to comment intelligently on how those older than you ought to feel and act. See comment #48, and grow the fuck up.

99. CLG, why does it make you said that you feel like you don’t know your ex very well? Are you married to your ex? No. He’s an ex. I don’t know some of my exes that well, want to know why?

    BECAUSE WE BROKE UP. AND MOVED ON WITH OUR LIVES.

    I think you are one of those people who needs everyone to like them. Focus on your spouse and your kids. Do they love you? That’s all that matters.

100. Sad* not Said 😛

101. -My daughter reacted poorly-

     Excuse me? What did he expect, Cheers & Champagne?
     She reacted in an adult and respectful manner, IMO.

     Dad is acting like a spoilt child.

102. Bunch of narcissist P’s of S. Dad’s a self-absorbed shitbag who puts his own happiness above his daughter’s; cheating Borderline girlfriend wants to fuck her ex despite having a family, and makes up BS excuses about it; jackass can’t stop thinking about himself long enough to pay attention to what his date might need. And then a caravan of commenters excusing it all because, I guess, paying attention to and caring about others in the world is unhip. Pathetic.

103. My father is 10 years older than my mother, she was not his first wife, and eventually my father shacked up with a young girl that was 20 years younger than him. He has been married 3 times? 4 times? Each time trading in for a younger model. “Surprisingly” it didn’t work out with my step mother either. He was getting old and dealing with issues that people deal with as they age past a certain point and started to think more with his brain instead of his dick and found a woman his OWN age…who he is now really happy with, the best I have ever seen him my entire life so far.

     I like, much like my mother, am also attracted to “older” men. I do obey the “halfway” rule I have given myself, which if the guy is over the halfway mark that makes him closer to my moms age than me, I wont go there. Not because its just “creepy” but because I have respect for myself and I know that with that huge of an age gap it will never last so I would rather not waste my time and effort.

     A lot of people have that “code” of where you DO NOT date your friend’s ex boyfriend or girlfriend. A lot of people do not even go after their brother and sister. A father or mother falls under that same category. Its not all about age, but most definitely has more to do with the relationship.

     My best female friend has a few brothers not too much different in age to me and a single father. I would never ever even think of going there with them because I have respect for her and cherish our friendship. The chances of one of them “being the one” as far as that I settle down with and marry, is by far extremely slim to none. Even if she was “cool” with it at first, break ups do usually get messy and childish and make people “take sides”. It’s just not worth it.

     Again, the daughter is doing the absolute right thing to just stay out of it and let her so-called friend and her father figure out what they are doing on their own. Then when they break up she doesn’t have to be around for the aftermath. Eventually things will smooth over and a relationship would be more open to repairing then, when all is said and done.

104. Dad dating his daughter’s friend?

     Hey, sorry, you already made your choice jerk. And you chose to have a hot girlfriend over your relationship with your daughter. Period.

     Consider me totally skeeved.

     I also think expecting her to ever get over it is unreasonable and ridiculous. Why should she? She now knows that her dad considers her peers cruising fodder and bonking them is more important than she is. If she doesn’t pass his test of acting comfortable, he cuts her out.

105. When I was in my 20s (post-college, out of my dad’s house), I dated a guy who was in his 40s. Although he wasn’t as old as my parents, he was older than the people my parents eventually married.

     My parents didn’t like this at all.

     So, for what it’s worth, I’ve been that girl, although I don’t think our short-lived relationship was typical of these situations. For one thing, the person he dated before me was a guy his own age. When we were dating, he was also seeing a colleague his own age (female). We liked each other because we were both activists in the queer community, we had several friends in common, and his lifestyle was much more similar to mine than my parents’. My lesbian friends all approved of him.

     And I still think that FDAKB should never have gone down this path. Like many other commentors, I don’t the the age difference is the heart of the issue. It’s the fact that he’s dating his daughter’s friend.

     He said he was aware of the dangers but he “really liked this girl.” That is hardly justification. To step over that boundary, you had better feel certain that you want to marry this woman.

     It sounds to me that the daughter is handling this in a far more sophisticated and mature way than her dad. She says that she doesn’t want to make her father choose between her and his girlfriend. Most would not be that generous.

     FDAKB, you are this girl’s dad. I assume she is a grown adult (and, therefore, that your GF is as well), and yes, there’s a point where you don’t always put your children’s needs before your own, but C’MON.

     I agree with Dan that there’s no such thing as “the one,” so the least you can do is stay away from your daughter’s friends. And if the woman you’re dating is the only hot young thing who would look at you, that should tell you something.

106. @62 No, I don’t actually. Everyone has a libido, and most everyone uses it. Hell there’s been older men that I’ve flirted with. But there’s a big difference between hitting on someone younger then you and being a creep about it. That guy all alone thats about 15-20 years older then everyone else at the bar and only talks to girls who are obviously trashed? CREEPY. That 15-20 years older then you guy that starts a conversation politely, possibly based on a common interest or situation? Not creepy (usually). Banging someone 20 years younger then you? High five man. Banging your daughters best friend? CREEPY.

107. I am sorry but FART is better off. What on G-d’s green earth does one expect when their mouth is one someone else’s anus–Chanel No. 5? Presumably the other guy was no virgin, either, so he should have expected a little incidental output. He should be glad there wasn’t, as someone so richly described here a few weeks ago, a bullet in the chamber. And he should have been glad FART still wanted to kiss him after that.

     FART, and the rest of us, are all better off sleeping with people with a sense of humor. As for ass play, anyone going in there not knowing that, um, shit happens gets what he or she deserves. JMTC.

108. FDAKB’s situation sounds a lot like that of Robert Schimmel, except in his case everyone is still talking to each other: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Schi…

109. FART asked the wrong sex columnist about his problem. Dan doesn’t think farts are funny; he never ever mentions them with any sense of humor. Maybe his older brother tortured him with farts in the face or something when he was a kid.
     I too think FART was embarassed and that’s why he laughed as he appologized. When faces are near asses, the occasional oops happens. Hopefully he’ll be further along in the next potential relationship, if it happens again.

110. I think FART did totally the right thing! My boyfriend and I have had many embarrassing moments like this, he farted and came simultaneously whilst I was giving him a blow job once (I laughed so hard I fell off the bed), I head butted him in the nose whilst cumming once and gave him a bad nose bleed, he farted on my chest once during a session. All of these things resulted in furious laughter (and at least one of these occurred on our first night together). FART is well rid of the guy who can’t see the humour in the grossness. Someone who appreciates the funny will come along one day.

111. FART’s ex needs to quit being a whiny baby and get over himself. You have your tongue on a guy’s asshole, you dumbass! Does he also dumb anyone who gets a sudden burp when they’re making out, too?

     Gross things happen, especially during sexual acts. You either laugh about it and move on, or you cry and run away. Anyone who does the latter is just depressingly full of themselves. Life’s too short to take things like this so seriously.

112. It’s one thing to try to defuse a situation like FART’s by trying to laugh it off at the time. But IMHO he crossed the line at bringing it up after that. After receiving the e-card, the fartee probably thought (and rightfully so, given that FART admitted to having sent the e-card to “perhaps start a long-term shared joke”) that this was an incident he’d have to hear about for years if he remained with FART.

     I understand that embarassing things happen on dates. But the knowledge that catching a mouthful of flatulence could be one of the first recurring anecdotes of a relationship would be a deal-breaker for me.

113. I’m sorry, but if my Dad dated one of my friends I’d be pissed. I say that it’s only appropriate if the Dad would have no problem allowing his daughter to date one of HIS friends….

114. FDAKB is a fucking moron.

115. @15 “It’s not like FART excreted on his lover’s head while cackling like a maniac.” was the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time… thank you

116. I feel a great deal empathy for FART and also feel a great deal of empathy with the response.

     My partner was versatile, and I’m a top with little interest in bottoming. The relationship was still rather new, so I was still hesitant to be fully GGG to his “top” needs at the time. However, I was willing to engage in a little frottage as the “bottom” partner.

     During once such encounter, there was a bit of a “slip” which caused him to inadvertently and unexpectedly “stab” me in a way that wasn’t particularly pleasant.

     After the initial shock and pain of that experience, I’d made a few jokes in an attempt to ease the tension caused by that moment. One such comment I’d made was, “I hope when I finally let you fuck me, you’ll be a hell of a lot more gentle than THAT!”

     He wasn’t so amused by my joking. Our relationship ended not long after.

     To this day, I don’t know if my jokes at his expense angered him because he was genuinely embarrassed by his little “slip,” or if it’s because he was actually hoping his little “accident” would’ve made me moan out in ecstasy and beg for more.

117. So your advice to the first two were great but for FART – wow Dan, when did you grow a vagina and start writing your letters with your period blood? He farted in the guys mouth – yeah it’s gross, but like smegma, santorum, and letting one rip during the throes of passion, it happens.

     I think all FART did was try to difuse a situation that could’ve been insanely awkward afterwards and make it something funny. If the rimmer didnt have a fart in his mouth, sorry, stick in his ass, those two would’ve been happily fucking now. I’d rather the long running joke than the rimmer crying and whining and talking about his feelings over an already insanely embarassing situation.

     But hey, can’t get’em all right I suppose.

118. @117 “So your advice to the first two were great but for FART – wow Dan, when did you grow a vagina and start writing your letters with your period blood?”

     Seriously? That is a pretty juvenile response. It’s not like Dan started saying shit like, “Eww icky boys are icky.” Even if Dan was all revolted he didn’t bash the e-card guy, he just said that he would have ended things as well. He also said “after a rimmee farts—a blessedly rare occurrence”, showing that he is AWARE that it does happen so you telling him that yeah it happens, is pretty pointless.

     Also, turning an awkward situation into an unwanted long running joke or “crying and whining and talking about his feelings over an already insanely embarrassing situation” are not the only two options, but rather seem like two extremes.

     Note that Dan did not say that this long drawn out heartfelt feelings talk was much needed, but a REAL apology, without laughing at the guy consistently.

     For you to turn that into pretty much calling Dan a pussy is pretty ridiculous. Genitals aside, exercise your brain muscle, as it is pretty weak.

119. FDAKB, just as you have the right to betray your daughter’s trust (by bonking her best friend), you’re daughter has every right to want you out her life. I know I would. You’re a creeper, FDAKB…

120. Re FART: The sheer incongruity of expecting some sort of DIGNITY out of that situation…?

     Didn’t he notice? He was tonguing your ass. Not exactly a dignified position under any circumstances. And then something unexpected and awkward — and let’s face it, hysterical, however sophomoric it may be to think so — happened. People who can’t laugh off something unexpected and awkward shouldn’t be doing things that so obviously put them at risk. It’s not like you were laughing AT HIM. Expecting some sort of grave heartfelt apology, with no trace of humor, considering the situation, indicates that he is a humorless twit, at least with regards to anything that might come across as a slight to his poor precious ego. The first time you make a REAL mistake, you can bet that you will pay, and pay, and pay.

     Count your blessings, FART. If the two of you had ever reversed roles, you would have been in serious danger of getting an eye poked out by the stick he keeps up there.

121. Whoa.

     Listen. Old men get gross and flabby and wrinkly and balding too. And don’t give me that ‘George Clooney’ outlier shit either.

     USUALLY when very young women date much older men, it’s because he’s got a nice car, house, secure financial situation that hot young men their own age don’t. Girls after “maturity” would find someone in their mid-thirties, not late 40s-50s. Why is this so? Well, compare the number of very young men who date older women. It’s just not the same number is it. Why? Effed up societal expectations and this incorrect idea that men age better than women. ( At least women at 50 still have all their hair).

     Parents and kids owe it to each other to PRETEND that they don’t have sex. Why? Cos thinking about your parent (or child) having sex means that you’re picturing your parent (or child) naked, which is gross and uncomfortable and sorta incestuous. Fucking your kids’ friend ruins your kid’s friendship. That’s a bitch move to pull on your own child. When together or in mixed company, they can no longer talk about sex or confide in each other (something most twenty-something year olds do on a regular basis). There are lines you don’t cross. That’s one of them.

122. Creepy Dad has the same stuck-in-adolescence-selfish-mentality of many men who can’t hold the interest of their female peers: “Why doesn’t the world admire me when I’m indulging myself?” They really can’t or won’t see that they look ridiculous, not hot, and shallow and ‘tarded, not cool. Which isn’t a big deal — until they start complaining about other people’s perfectly normal reactions to them. I feel sorry both for his daughter and for the YAD he’s boinking.

     And I think it’s time someone did a real scientific study on the incidence of farting during sex. Is it as rare as Le Sauvage says?

123. anybody that has been fucked in the ass knows that there r a million things that can go wrong…..

     and that there r many different ways to react to any one of those…..

     being at the bottom end of things is complicated enough, and while I have never farted on someone’s face, stuff has happened beyond my control…

     believe me, after a good fucking, ur body control is not normal….

     anyway, my point being that I have acted mortified (genuinely), apologized profusely, done all the things that Dan suggested, and quite frankly, that did not prevent me from getting dumped…. via text or otherwise…..

     I have also gotten dumped when nothing went wrong…..

     the real issue here is, in my view, having sex after 3 dates….. that is too soon…… also, it seems that there were a lot other things that were not discussed between those two guys, such as dating exclusively…..

     sex should only come into play when both parties r not dating anyone else……

     otherwise it is just informal, free-style, fuck-buddying….. and in that situation, anything can happen, including getting dumped via text…

124. @102 “cheating Borderline girlfriend wants to fuck her ex despite having a family”

     Oh, so you’ve met my ex, have you? Or were you just reading my mind?

125. @121: “(At least women at 50 still have all their hair).”

     Well, yeah, but baldness (for men) is a lot sexier than it used to be. Baldness for women? A much longer road to walk.

126. “Parents and kids owe it to each other to PRETEND that they don’t have sex.”

     Read that five times.

     If by the fourth one you don’t feel like an idiot, you are one.

     Are we supposed to pretend we don’t eat, shit and breath too? Asshole.

127. Letter 1- Dan’s right, it’s the “victim” of the inevitable awkward moment that gets to decide the resolution- I totally understand the helpless laughing fit because I myself have a terrible tendancy to break up into fits of laughter when the unspeakable happens (Thank you, God, for allowing me to never have passed gas at a delicate moment!), but the guy should have read his date’s reaction a bit more carefully and offerred a sincere, laughter-free apology for the incident instead of an e-card (Which I hope he had to customize because I hate to think that a “Sorry I farted in your mouth card” is available ready-made).
     In any event, because these two gentlemen are not on the same page about the “sense of humour” question, the relationship was doomed anyway. You cannot have a successful union with someone whose sense of humour is vastly different from your own.

     Letter 2- What a miserable, nasty excuse for a human. I would have been quite sympathetic about the screwing the ex, I was young, stupid, thoughtless and impulsive to the point of recklessness myself many moons ago, so I’d have been inclined to view the cheating through that lens but to accuse an innocent of rape? That is unforgivable! Not only did she run the risk of destroying the life of a blameless man, but by lying she made it that much harder for a woman who truly WAS the victim of an acquaintence rape to be believed. Date rape is real. It happens and while it is typically less physically injurious than a stranger attack, it leaves different and sometimes deeper emotional scars and any woman who falsely cries rape should be required to attend every rape crises group meeting in three counties and apologize to every person present for her callousless, cowardice and opportunism….. Oh, and this little twit needs to leave her ex alone and concentrate on not fucking over her spouse.

     Letter 3- Hey, Dad- When you chase your children’s peers, you risk alienating your children. Deal with it. You got a girlfriend at the price of your daughter having to feel that she can’t speak freely to you or to the friend you’re now fucking because she, rightfully, worries that her confidences (however inconsequential) will become pillow talk and you’ve madly upset the basic structure of your daughter’s social life…. besides that, it is creepy to a young person to have their parent carrying on with someone from their own social circle… to your daughter, it’s almost as if you went to a family reunion to find a date, it’s THAT creepy in her eyes.

128. letter 2 and 3 are real sickos. and to letter 1, i’ve farted in many a mouth and never encountered anyone so sensitive. i also didn’t humiliate them through email after the fact

129. Pretty much with Dan on everything here, spot on advice. For all the people taking FART’s side because rimming was involved, I have to raise an eyebrow. FART is, presumably, a full grown adult with decent control of his bodily functions. How often do uncontrollable, unforeseen farts happen? You feel it building up, and yes, during sex you might not have the greatest control response, especially if someone’s tongue is in your ass. But it’s at moments like that that you direct the person away from rimming your ass, because you feel a fart building up and know you’re probably not going to be able to hold it in. The fact that he didn’t shows a lack of consideration. Yes, there is a small chance that a fart suddenly came on with no warning, but the chance is so tiny that I find it doubtful.

     But let’s give FART the benefit of the doubt. The dude FARTED in the guy’s MOUTH. Yes, there is some risk to rimming, as with any anal activity, but in my experience the rimming risk is basically infitesimal compared to the risk you run with a cock, toy, or even finger up the butt. You just can’t insert a tongue far enough to run a big risk of dislodging anything, so I don’t think it’s unrealistic for FART’s boyfriend to have a reasonable expectation to not have his mouth farted in. But let’s say it happens – unless you have a fetish for it, it’s pretty damn gross. If someone accidentally shat in your mouth, or pissed on you, and you were not into scat or piss, that’d be pretty gross. A fart might not be quite on that level, but it’s a similar unpleasant bodily function, and the fact that it’s going IN THE MOUTH makes the chances for gross out double, not to mention that it could come across as more disrespectful than farting on someone’s cock while they’re fucking you.

     The situation was something that could have been remedied, but only by FART acting like a respectful adult and not a 10 year old boy. I dated someone who’s sense of humor never left the juvenile phase – the kind of person who’s response to farting in someone’s mouth would be uncontrollable laughter, not embarrassment (most grown ups would feel embarrassed by that kind of loss of control of their body functions). Thank god he never did fart in my mouth. In my experience, that kind of sense of humor leads to much less of a desire to control such things, even in situations where it’s just rude and not funny, like eating at a restaurant with family members, or trying to have a hot moment in bed. A lot of humor has to do with appropriateness and timing, and FART’s reaction suggests that he has a juvenile sense of humor like this, and was too caught up in his own “Haha, I just farted in your FACE!” reaction to have a little empathy or mortification on the part of his partner. Basically, FART was laughing AT him. It’s only laughing “with” him if his BF is laughing too. Clearly he wasn’t, and that makes FART a jerk, not a funny guy.

130. @121: “Listen. Old men get gross and flabby and wrinkly and balding too. And don’t give me that ‘George Clooney’ outlier shit either.”

     That’s right, they (we) do. And if some hot young thang can see her way clear to fucking one of them anyway, that’s none of your damned business. As long as it’s consenting adults, it isn’t your job to tell people who makes an appropriate bed partner. (By the way, where does the daughter’s friend fit into this equation? Doesn’t she get to decide who she wants to fuck? Or does the daughter own her? By your standards, the daughter gets to control the choices of both the dad and the friend. Nice.)

     Your whiny sticking your finger down your throat at the very idea comes across as either sour grapes, if you’re a woman who has gotten old and wrinkly and flabby and gross just like the men your age; or immature and narcissistic, if you are still young and hot, in which case you will eventually get your comeuppance when you get old and wrinkly and flabby and gross just like the rest of us.

131. Another hilarious and odd column. Thanks Savage Love and its readers!

132. As someone who did the farting in a similar situation to FART’s, I TOTALLY agree with Dan’s advice. Laughing it off at the time was sorta mean, although the kiss might’ve chilled him out. However, the e-card you sent twisted the knife – NOT good.

133. One stereotype that I’ve learned over the years is ALMOST ALWAYS correct is that when a man dates a woman significantly younger than himself (his daughter’s age, for example), he’s not looking for a real partner. If he were truly mature enough to want a long term relationship, he wouldn’t be looking among his daughter’s friends.

     I think Dan doesn’t realize that a daughter will justifiably lose all respect for her dad when he does this. And that won’t go away when the sexual relationship does.

134. I think “dumping” is too strong a term for the result of FART’s farting, text message or not. They went on 3 dates and were clearly not exclusive. The guy declined a 4th date. You can stop seeing someone at that point for any reason; FART wasn’t owed more consideration than a direct answer. And having someone fart in your face and laugh about it is more than enough reason to decide that other opportunities are more worthwhile.

135. I just want to comment on the fact that FDAKB’s letter…and the fact that his girlfriend has been completely let off the hook for the fact that she fucked up her friendship.
     His daughter should be able to get over because, well: if she was your friend she wouldn’t have kept it a secret for so long, she would’ve at least discussed it with you.

     My dad is my dad, and regardless of who he dates I’m gonna care about him. Honestly, this isn’t unforgivable. You guys are being a bit whiny about that aspect.
     However, I expect better from my friends, and from myself. I’m in my twenties, and I find older guys hot. (But not usually the one’s with kids). But if I start getting the inkling that something is gonna go down with me and MY FRIEND’S DAD, I’m gonna say to her “Err, this is super awkward, but I wanna date your dad, don’t hate me.” And she should keep her trap shut about anything the daughter told/tells her.

     I wanted to rant more but I’ve gotta get going.

136. more on 121: “Parents and kids owe it to each other to PRETEND that they don’t have sex. Why? Cos thinking about your parent (or child) having sex means that you’re picturing your parent (or child) naked, which is gross and uncomfortable and sorta incestuous.”

     Anybody who can’t deal rationally and calmly with the idea that their parents have sex doesn’t deserve to exist, let alone deserve to be called an adult. If it weren’t for their sex life, you wouldn’t be here. By wanting to deny that, you are invalidating the very force that brought you into this world.

     You are a BY-PRODUCT of your parents’ sex life. Yes, a by-product. Out of the couple of thousand times that they got busy over the course of a fifty year marriage, only a handful, if any, were for the express purpose of making you. If you were an accident, that number drops to zero. It’s not all about you. Get over it.

     I actually agree with your assessment about the whole “people think it feels incestuous” thing. I just think it is weak thinking. What parents and children owe each other is to not dwell morbidly on the fact that the other has sex. That’s a rather different proposition than pretending it doesn’t happen, let alone expecting them to carefully arrange the illusion that it doesn’t happen in order to protect your wilting sensibilities. They are human beings, just like you, and deserve a sex life, just like you. Trying to pretend otherwise is to deny them what is their right. You just need to get better at strategically minding your own business.

137. Flatulent Anilingus Result: Termination = AWESOME!!!

138. I NEVER understand why people tell the people they have cheated on that they have cheated! It is absolutely inexplicable unless you A) want to get rid of your mate by forcing them to dump you (VERY cruel) or B) accidently knocked up the other person (obviously impossible in this case!) Well, also C) your mate will get off on it…a rare scenario.

139. I think it’s interesting that people are piling on the “omg old men dating 20s women are so skeevy,” but no critique for the younger women? But pedophilia? Nope. Skeevy? Maybe, so avoid these guys. Why the big deal? I mean it’s a consensual relationship, right? And we’re all grown up enough to know that of course, young women date older men not because the men are hawt. They do it b/c they like the men’s wealth or b/c the women have some kind of daddy fetish. Neither is rare among 20s women, I find. I’m a paunchy middle aged guy, and I don’t date 20s women, but I do notice strong flirting from the 20s female demographic on occasion. I’m so not hawt, and I have no delusions on that score: it’s b/c I’m (relatively) wealthy and Daddy-like.

140. @139: I actually don’t care for women who marry solely for money (and as much money as they can manage). I have friends who have decided they will ever only marry men who earn more than they do, and it disgusts me. So I’m with you there.

     But I never understood the *broad* criticism of women who attribute their attraction to success or power. Sure, if they don’t get why success or power is meaningful, and just love the idea of impressing other people with a monied boyfriend, then yeah, good job, you’re kind of shallow.

     But unlike looks, which you’re just born with and tasked basically with not fucking them up, success indicates something about your personality — that you have goals, you know how to accomplish them, and you can manage a career so it continues fulfilling you.

     Anyway. I like older men because many of them are confident, articulate, caring, and have made their lives into something they consider meaningful — which I define as success. I can definitely assure you that a lot of them have not been conventionally hot. Really. I swear. Or necessarily rich — many have been academic types.

     If you’re a man in his 40s with wealth and success but repulsive in behaviour, I wouldn’t give you a second look.

     Then again, I may be turning 25 this year, but I’m not the stereotypical hawt young thing who can ever attract a man just with her body, so maybe my opinion doesn’t count.

141. @139: Oh, and I’m guessing another reason why the criticism for the younger women hasn’t popped up more (in this particular thread anyway … I hear that accusation all the time) is because some of us are presuming that women in their 20s do all kinds of dumb things and it goes without saying. Maybe the criticism is in fact so obvious that we don’t even need to say it; it’s just “fact.”

     I think that trumps freaking out about skeevy old men.

142. I’m with everyone who thinks FART’s reaction – humor in the face of an awkward but wholly foreseeable potential consequence of anilingus – was completely appropriate, but the e-card was overboard. I also agree with those who have stated that “dumping” someone in a text in this situation – three dates, non-exclusivity – isn’t a particularly gauche move, as the relationship itself is extremely casual as far as I can see.

     Side Note: I’m surprised by how many people would interpret laughter in this situation as malicious instead of stress-relieving; you people must have had a lot more sex with assholes than considerate partners for that to be the default assumption. 🙁 MY reaction would certainly be laughter, as either the rimmer or rimmee, as the situation is slightly absurd and therefore very funny; FART probably COULD have been more sympathetic, but anyone who is going to freak out at inhaling intestinal gas has no business putting one’s face anywhere near an anus.

     As for FDAKB… dating someone the same age as a child is always gonna come off as kinda creepy/squicky, particularly from the perspective of said child. Dating (or even casually fucking) one’s daughter’s friend is a serious asshole move, unless one has overwhelmingly convincing evidence beforehand that said daughter will not care. It’s an asshole move because what one is saying, in effect, is, “I care more about fucking this specific person than I care about either your relationship with with your friend or our relationship, daughter.” As has been mentioned, FDAKB (and the girlfriend/daughter’s friend) is essentially barring his daughter from discussing anything with her friend that she wouldn’t also discuss with him.

     As for the daughter distancing herself from her (former) friend, this is wholly unsurprising; I’d have a really hard time maintaining a friendship with a friend my age who started fucking one of my parents. If the friend is into fucking people 20-, 30-, 40-odd years older, that’s fine; the issue is that I can’t imagine it would be that difficult to meet a viable much-older sex-partner who ISN’T my parent (particularly an older man, since men are socialized to seek younger sex partners) with whom my friend could have a nice inter-generational relationship, so fucking my parent demonstrates a complete disregard for my feelings, and that makes the friend a shitty friend.

     Also, what does this say about FDAKB’s new girlfriend? Does he really want to be dating someone who would treat his daughter like this? (I realize he’s essentially doing the same thing, but I’m going to assume there are far fewer opportunities for him to fuck someone his daughter’s age than there are opportunities for someone his daughter’s age to fuck someone his age, making his actions more-defensible due to his significantly fewer opportunities.) If she has that little disregard for the feelings of her good friends, how much is she really going to care about his feelings. The more I think about this, the more I think FDAKB and his girlfriend deserve each other, and FDAKB’s daughter is well-rid of them both.

     Finally, I must express how happy it makes me that the response forum attached to each Savage Love is always so active, and relatively flame-war-free – we’ll de-stigmatize discussions of sexuality yet!

143. I’m with everyone who thinks FART’s reaction – humor in the face of an awkward but wholly foreseeable potential consequence of anilingus – was completely appropriate, but the e-card was overboard. I also agree with those who have stated that “dumping” someone in a text in this situation – three dates, non-exclusivity – isn’t a particularly gauche move, as the relationship itself is extremely casual as far as I can see.

     Side Note: I’m surprised by how many people would interpret laughter in this situation as malicious instead of stress-relieving; you people must have had a lot more sex with assholes than considerate partners for that to be the default assumption. 🙁 MY reaction would certainly be laughter, as either the rimmer or rimmee, as the situation is slightly absurd and therefore very funny; FART probably COULD have been more sympathetic, but anyone who is going to freak out at inhaling intestinal gas has no business putting one’s face anywhere near an anus.

     As for FDAKB… dating someone the same age as a child is always gonna come off as kinda creepy/squicky, particularly from the perspective of said child. Dating (or even casually fucking) one’s daughter’s friend is a serious asshole move, unless one has overwhelmingly convincing evidence beforehand that said daughter will not care. It’s an asshole move because what one is saying, in effect, is, “I care more about fucking this specific person than I care about either your relationship with with your friend or our relationship, daughter.” As has been mentioned, FDAKB (and the girlfriend/daughter’s friend) is essentially barring his daughter from discussing anything with her friend that she wouldn’t also discuss with him.

     As for the daughter distancing herself from her (former) friend, this is wholly unsurprising; I’d have a really hard time maintaining a friendship with a friend my age who started fucking one of my parents. If the friend is into fucking people 20-, 30-, 40-odd years older, that’s fine; the issue is that I can’t imagine it would be that difficult to meet a viable much-older sex-partner who ISN’T my parent (particularly an older man, since men are socialized to seek younger sex partners) with whom my friend could have a nice inter-generational relationship, so fucking my parent demonstrates a complete disregard for my feelings, and that makes the friend a shitty friend.

     Also, what does this say about FDAKB’s new girlfriend? Does he really want to be dating someone who would treat his daughter like this? (I realize he’s essentially doing the same thing, but I’m going to assume there are far fewer opportunities for him to fuck someone his daughter’s age than there are opportunities for someone his daughter’s age to fuck someone his age, making his actions more-defensible due to his significantly fewer opportunities.) If she has that little disregard for the feelings of her good friends, how much is she really going to care about his feelings? The more I think about this, the more I think FDAKB and his girlfriend deserve each other, and FDAKB’s daughter is well-rid of them both.

     Finally, I must express how happy it makes me that the response forum attached to each Savage Love is always so active, and relatively flame-war-free – we’ll de-stigmatize discussions of sexuality yet!

144. Speaking as a 23 year old, I agree that some older guys can be attractive, sometimes even in real life rather than in Hollywood. Looks aren’t everything though- any flirting or attraction is always going to be undercut by the sheer squickiness of the power imbalance.

     A typical 20-something girl (or even younger, if the guy is really extreme) who has never really worked a full-time job, doesn’t know much about the world versus some middle-aged guy who presumably has a career, owns a house, HAS A DAUGHTER THE SAME AGE? I’m not talking about someone who’s a genius, independently rich, precocious and wise beyond their years here, but your typical situation.

     They will never have a relationship of equals.

     The older and financially powerful guy is always going to be calling the shots, in bed and out of it. A guy who wants to fuck a 20 year old is a guy who wants to be in control, a guy who wants a woman with all the lack of experience and ability to make decisions that a woman his own age would presumably have, a guy who thinks society somehow “owes” him a hot young college girl even though he hasn’t seen college in decades? I would classify him under capital P, for predatory, and possibly D, for deluded.

     The thing about specifically going for your own daughter’s friend is a whole ‘nother barrel of squick.

145. Any regular SL reader knows that Dan is intensely fart-negative. And now that I’ve used the phrase “fart-negative”, I’ll kill myself. Painfully.

146. Speaking solely for myself (though I suspect I’m not alone)I refrained from expressing my thoughts about the daughter’s friend/dad’s girlfriend’s shabby behavior simply because it was DAD, not the daughter or the girlfriend who was seeking input. I, personally, found it a bit refreshing that everyone stayed so focused on the question at hand….. but since the topic has been broached, yes, the friend crossed a massive line- 3 lines actually.
     1:You don’t fuck your friend’s parents. You just don’t.
     2:You don’t date anyone who holds a key role in a friend’s life without first discussing it with your friend…. your friend’s shrink, personal trainer,siblings, exes, and housemates are all off limits until and unless your friend gives you the green light.
     3. If you cross the above lines, you cowboy/cowgirl up and tell your friend before anyone else can and you do it in private, on your friend’s turf.

147. I like FART’s style

148. Yeah, I’m sorry, but it’s true. Yes, we can rationally conclude that our parents have sex, that they’re sexual beings and need to have their needs met, but I don’t ever, EVER want to hear or see it. If I do accidentally hear or see it, I will PRETEND it didn’t happen. IE. Never bring it up ever ever ever to that person, and try not to think about it for the rest of my life. Parents and children not wanting to be involved in, and being skeeved out by hearing about each other’s sex lives is a NORMAL HEALTHY thing. Incest is a bad thing for evolution, so it makes sense that NORMAL HEALTHY people don’t want anything to do with their parents or children’s sex lives.

     Sure, the daughter doesn’t have the right to tell her dad or her friend that they absolutely cannot see each other, but she absolutely has the right to cut off the friendship and be pissed.

     Also, I have nothing against old wrinkly people. That’s cool, we all get there. I just have a problem with someone who believes that old men are naturally hotter than old women. It ain’t the old man that’s hot, it’s the money.

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150. @77: That sounds an awful lot like female ejaculation, not peeing. Female ejaculate is often hard to distinguish from urine and it’s involuntary and occurs during orgasm. Plus, I believe it’s close to physically impossible to urinate during orgasm. Your girlfriend is one of the lucky few who can ejaculate!

151. ” Yes, we can rationally conclude that our parents have sex, that they’re sexual beings and need to have their needs met, but I don’t ever, EVER want to hear or see it.”

     Better decline the invitation to his next wedding, if he ever has one, then. I hate to tell you this, brace yourself, but getting married probably means he will have been fucking the new wife for some time already, and he almost certainly will be fucking her shortly afterwards. Maybe even that night. James, fetch the fainting couch; I fear I’ve said too much.

     Better not invite him to your wedding either, lest it dawn on him that you and your spouse-to-be are doing the same thing.

     Seriously, what do you think this guy actually said to his daughter? Details of their latest session? “EllieMae and I are seeing each other” is about as graphic as “EllieMae and I are getting married.” Both of them carry the implication that dear old Dad has been (la-la-la-I-can’t-hear-you) fucking somebody. But it’s not like they are going to rub your nose in the specifics.

     By the time you are a twenty-something, you should smart enough to recognize what a complete STICK you’ve been in your parents’ sex lives for the last couple of DECADES. (I openly wonder how anyone ever manages to have more than one; a first child is the best, loudest, most insistent contraceptive in the world.) Frankly, by now you ought to be mature enough to apologize for all the inconvenience you caused, laugh, and move on, rather than continue to interfere by making them tiptoe around your little-girl squeamishness.

152. My girlfriend farted in my face whilst I was down on her & she was trying to force a female ejeculation during orgasm.
     We both fell about the place in fits of laughter, it’s one of those personal moments that we have had together & makes our relationship stronger.

153. I think FART handled it the right way. Rimming is inherently comical. His date probably wasn’t into the idea of continuing the relationship (lots of guys lose interest after the first time they get naked together, I don’t think I’m the only one that happens to! please say I’m not the only one that happens to) and used the fart as an excuse to break it off. The two of them probably wouldn’t have been a good match anyway, since their senses of humor obviously aren’t compatible.

154. 1.) I initially sided with Fart, but Dan won me over with his argument. It would have bothered me if a new love interest had farted in my face and then laughed about it. I understand using humor to defuse an embarrassing situation, but a little humility would have gone a long way.

     2.) I have sympathy for CLG simply because I myself am a borderline case. It’s difficult to reconcile your identity with who you are, who you want to be, and that psycho who comes and goes whenever they damn well feel like it. Dan hit the nail on the head. She’s not seeking an affair as others have suggested (although she might be seeking drama), she wants absolution. I have a similar desire to dig up the past and change it. I can only suggest that CLG accepts the past, leaves it behind, and focuses on the person she is now.

     3.) FDAKB’s mistake was not in dating someone his daughter’s age, but dating his daughter’s close friend. It was an immature and selfish move. It’s completely natural that she would be uncomfortable and want some space. Stop whining and let your daughter adjust.

155. @ 151 Oh please, I’m sorry your kids ruined your sex life, but your wedding example is stupid and out of context. I find it funny that most people are pointing out that the problem lies with him banging the daughters friend, not the age difference, yet some people want to turn this into a middle-age-men-get-too-much-crap-for-boning-hot-young-things pity fest. A good parent doesn’t sleep with their kids friends. Thats it. FDAKB used the term “dangerous territory” so he knew it was a shitty thing to do and he’s getting the just reaction of banging his daughters friend. And no amount of justification changes that.

156. I’m with FART on this one. His bum chum seems like a real tight ass. Good riddance.

157. @156 I agree completely. FART is well rid of his uptight body-phobic date. If I had a dollar for every time I had shit on my dick or got an elbow in the cheek during sex, I’d be rich. If the guy wants porn sex, he should rent porn. What a fucking baby.

     The creepy dad dating his daughter’s friend needs intense counseling. I feel so sorry for his daughter. What an icky icky icky man.

158. @148: Lament it all you want, but that won’t change the fact that generally speaking, men age better than women. Not EVERY man does, of course; many pretty boys end up with “melting face syndrome” when they hit middle age.

     But that’s just it, aging is a lot harsher to feminine features than masculine ones — or more accurately, aging is harsher to neotenous faces, male or female. And every society I know of values neoteny, especially in women. But the same wide-eyed, childlike features that looked so appealing in a person’s 20s, become incongruous and even grotesque in his/her 60s.

     Meanwhile, more masculine features tend to weather better, and can even benefit from the coarsening of features that comes with middle age. It’s actually one of the wonderful ironies of life: a lot of women who were awkward-looking in their 20s often age remarkably well, and when they hit middle age, look far better than their “prettier” peers. The big nose that was overly strong, the too-prominent chin, can become a kind of asset.

     So I don’t think it’s just the money, or the power; besides the stuff I mentioned, there are plenty of other reasons. And I don’t think it’s all socially constructed, either. If incest doesn’t make evolutionary sense (as you argued), neither does sleeping with someone who can’t make kids at all. But older men can remain fertile well into their 70s, or even beyond.

159. I’m really surprised that Dan made no mention of Obama’s having ordered hospital visitation rights for same-sex couples. I assume this was just an oversight, as I would hope he’s as enthusiastic about it as so many of us are.

160. My father was 34 years older than my mother when they married. If they hadn’t had sex I wouldn’t be here. They were well matched. Only one of my father’s older children had a problem with their relationship, and today she regrets her reaction back then. Mind you, my mother was not one of said children’s friends, but even if she had been, so what? They were both consenting adults (64 and 30). It worked for them. Everybody else, buzz off.

161. I think the young girlfriend’s actions were largely ignored here because the issue is between the father and his daughter. Not because she’s being let off the hook, indeed in the last month it seems the daughter has removed the girlfriend from her social life completely. Its just…the question wasn’t asking anything about her.

162. You know what, I think the father just wants to brag. Nothing drives home “I’m dating women young enough to be my daughter” like dating daughter’s friends. And he doesn’t want to give his daughter space either, so that he can remind the world he’s dating younger women again by ratcheting up the drama with more excuses to say out loud, ‘you need to accept me dating a younger woman’. Giving his daughter space would mean losing out on chances to bring the attention on it again.

163. @159
     He made a slog entry on the 15th:

     slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives
     /2010/04/15/president-orders-us-hospitals-to-recognize-gay-relationships

     Sorry for the splitted link! Please attach the last part to see the entry.

164. I don’t see my post up here, I’m not sure how long it takes or if it got on. So. What we don’t know here is motivation or frequency. The father here who is dating his daughter’s friend is doing this why? How serious is that why, and how often does his lack of consideration for her feelings take presidence? I think she may need to write him off as a father or get resigned to major damage if she doesn’t already have it. Think, people! What kind of self centered asshole thinks their daughter should react well to having her friend taken by her dad? Taken is the word here. Power is not shared in this non-agreement. Consideration for boundaries is not had in this non-agreement. The man is at best a class A jerk, at worst it’s hard to say. How often does he do this sort of thing? He doesn’t sound here like he thiks its out of the norm. How much of her childhood is already fucked by dealing with this kind of action? He doesn’t have impulse control, what else dosen’t he have? What else does he do that basically says “my wants come first, and you better like them”? I think he is a shit. I think people who think she has to deal with the fact he has sex/needs are missing the point. The point is, there are a million other people out there. Why a friend of hers? I see way too much power and self interest in this, more than I see any love of any kind.

165. god, you are SO ON this week

166. There’s a good reason FDAKB’s daughter is growing distant: her trust in two people who were close to her has been pretty thoroughly trashed.

     Someone who fucks your dad for five months and keeps it a secret from you is not your friend, period. And a dad who secretly fucks your friend is a selfish prick.

     It’s a little late for FDAKB to be worried about his daughter’s comfort. He should have thought about that in the beginning when he started banging her friend. Now the damage is done.

167. Gross. If my dad did that I wouldn’t talk to him for the rest of my life.

168. FART knew there was poop on he other side of the hole right? Poop that creates gas. So open wide and let the sweet smell in!

169. #164: “What else does he do that basically says “my wants come first, and you better like them”?

     Did you notice that it takes two people to decide to get together? Daughter’s friend also had to say yes to this arrangement. Apparently you think that Daughter’s wants are more important than both Dad’s and Girlfriend’s put together. Self-entitled much?

170. @105

     SPOT ON!

171. RE: FDAKB.

     All these (obviously male) commenters defending the aging lothario father dating his daughter’s “very good friend” have obviously not really read the original letter or most of the excellent comments about it.

     Possibly they might think how they’d feel if their Dad began dating one of their ex-girl friends, and Dad letting them know she’s telling him stuff about them?

     I imagine divorced Dad gets a huge ego and sexual boost out of having a much younger chick in his bed. I seriously suspect that is the main
     “connection” he’s getting from this relationship.

     As another commenter pointed out, Dad was lazily trolling for interest in the handiest social stream.

     The fact he kept it from his family means he knew exactly how bad this was.

     And here’s something I didn’t see anyone else mention. Who told daughter the secrets that she confided to “very good friend”?

     If it was “very good friend”, then who can blame Daughter for distancing herself from that disloyal slut?

     If it was Cradle Robbing Daddy, then why is “very good friend” even still hanging around this untrustworthy lover who can’t keep his mouth shut?

     So FDAKB wants his cake and to eat it too. As most of the commenters indicate, that is not going to happen.

     FDAKB can eat his cake, sure, but he really crossed the line with his daughter and she has a right to be very upset. When “very good friend” realizes how bad this all makes her look to her friends and family, she’s going to back out too.
     I hardly think too many of her young friends will want to hang out with Old Dude – unless he buys all the booze.

     Daddy will be left with memories like stale frosting, and a probably permanently ruined relationship with his daughter.

     Sadly, Daughter will have lost the most: damaged trust and respect for her Dad and a close friendship. I hope she finds a way to get over the feelings of betrayal.

172. Seriously? I’d say FART came out ahead and DID the right thing: he obviously wants to be with someone who DOES have a sense of humor about these things. He didn’t really seem to deserve a talking to in this case.

     Jeez.

173. The e-card wasn’t an apology, it was a joke. For people reading a sex blog on the interwebs in 2010, you think folks would be a little more savvy.

174. Today’s lesson? Sleeping with someone after 3 dates doesn’t mean you’re a couple, and thus, doesn’t mean you can get dumped. He just doesn’t want to see you anymore.

175. OR you could bitch about something IMPORTANT that’s happening in Canada like new, innovative sex education program that was GOING to be implemented until right wing religious types protested. How bout helping us out there?!!?

     http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/real…

     http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=11…

176. Hello, dumb@ass Dad, you’re going to lose your relationship with your daughter if you keep up this self-righteous “I just wanna be happy” crap. You didn’t write for advice on how to rebuild your relationship with your daughter, you wrote for advice on how you could continue to do whatever the (*&^ you want with whomever the (*&^ you want without any more reaction from your daughter, despite the fact that she’s dealing with the emotional double whammy that the father she respected not only dates young women for ego and sex reasons, but cares so little about her that he’ll hit on her friends, then doesn’t tell the stupid little twat he’s screwing to STFU when she starts dishing gossip on his daughter. How do you think she likes the picture of her former friend and father lying in bed talking about her private information?

     You are supposed to come down on YOUR DAUGHTER’s side – get it? Tell the stupid friend if she shares one more private detail of your daughter’s, she’s out the door, start thinking with the big head instead of the little one, and stop trying to make things easier for YOU and start trying to empathize with HER and be some sort of parent. People like you shouldn’t have children – Christ.

177. I’d be curious to know the reaction of the guys that are “supportive” of the Dad fucking the daughter’s friend, how they would feel if their Dad started fucking their ex-girlfriend?

     And, yes, it is similar, in that the emotional connection we have with “close” friends can be at the same level as with an ex. Just not the physical connection.

     I’d guess the guys defending “Dad” would have a different attitude if their Dad was fucking their ex-girlfriend. I call bullshit to any guy that would say differently.

178. Oh, and regarding FART, yes, a little humor might be applicable to defuse the situation, but he crossed the line with the e-card. I mean really, give me a fucking break. Farting in somebody’s mouth isn’t something you make a running joke about, unless it’s something you both find hilarious. Period.

     I’d be inclined to let the discretion slide, at the moment it happened, but to receive an e-card later, stating, “sorry I farted in your mouth.” Give me a fucking break. Immature? Fuck yes. FART has absolutely no class, it’s obvious.

     Seriously, at that point, for the rimmer, it becomes DT(inconsiderate)MFA.

179. if you’re ok with licking a butthole you should be ok with licking SHIT, much less get a fart in the face.
     SERIOUSLY!!! YOU LICK BUTTHOLES!!!!

180. Dan: once again, excellent advice to FART and
     FDAKB.

     Good call, Frau Blucher (I love your use of Cloris Leachman’s role in Young Frankenstein!)!

181. Well, the whole Fart thing. He did say it was morning when the guy went down to rim him. So it was not surprising when the Fart let one go while he was being made relaxed. It’s not like he could have warned him,”Fire Down Below!” His partner was disgusted, I give him that. I would have been. But the partner should have discussed it with him. And if he was truly disgusted he would have upped and left right after that moment of the fart. But he didn’t! He stayed to have more sex with him. So it must not have truly bothered him.

     As for the E-card, I probably would have done something similar! I always try to lighten a bad moment and try to get someone laugh at it. Sorry, but I view this as if someone shot cum in your eye. It happens, you might be disgusted about it. But then laugh about it and move on! But I do get the feeling that the partner was just using him for sex and not interested in a relationship. Otherwise he wouldn’t have brought up that he was dating 3 other guys. And if he was truthful about that. him dumping you would be the best thing!

182. Like Dan said last week about the woman who got freaked out by her boyfriend’s sexual tastes and her instinct told her to run, you should trust your gut instinct, it’s there to protect you from getting hurt by people. I mean, I don’t know what the grown up, selfless, dignified response to finding out my dad was dating one of my friends would be, but my gut reaction would be to cut them out of my life.
     I don’t know but my dad showing up with a friend on my arm would just set off alarm bells in my head like “you have a bad egg for a father”, “continuing to have a relationship with him will only cause you pain throughout your life”, “you are not responsable for him just because he’s your relative” “dump the mother fucker!” I know that sounds harsh but dating your close friend is just evidence that he has had sexual thoughts about you, I mean it’s literally the closest he can get to you sexauly right?
     It doesn’t sound like she’s punishing her father because she’s angry, but rather she’s trying to protect herself from him, this relationship between her father and friend has disturbed her and she wants to get as far away from them as possible rather than deal with it.
     I’m probably going to get a lot of negative feedback from people but I completely understand why the daughter has responded the way she has because I would do exactly the same thing to my dad if he went out with one of my friends.

183. Hey – you put your face down where the sun don’t shine – you’re takin’ a risk. Plain and simple. And to act all shocked when something happens?

     good riddance I say.

184. “I know that sounds harsh but dating your close friend is just evidence that he has had sexual thoughts about you, I mean it’s literally the closest he can get to you sexauly right?”

     That doesn’t sound harsh. What it sounds is non-sequitur logic-fail narcissistic batshit-crazy.

     More likely, he would deeply prefer that you simply weren’t a factor. His relationship with this woman would be significantly easier then.

     But he’s dating her anyway, a choice that for the first time in twenty-something years puts his wants ahead of yours. (I’ll bet after two decades of coming first, you are pretty used to the privilege.) And here the girlfriend is, backing him up on that choice. That’s two of them, putting their needs ahead of yours. And that fact pisses you off.

     Rather than it being some incestuous fascination with you and invasion of your personal space, the problem really is that for the first time, and in a really big way, it’s not all about you.

185. Avast2006, please don’t breed. There’s enough assholes with superiority complexes and we don’t need anymore.

186. OK, so there’s been a shitload of reactions to FART’s letter. Dan, I love you and (almost) always agree with you, but you were off-base on this one. Laughter truly is the best medicine, and that is the best way of defusing a situation like this. Of course, I imagine it depends on the grossness of the fart in question — was it a silent, deadly, stinkeroo or one of those loud, but essentially harmless ones? Or somewhere else on the spectrum? That may have a lot to do with the reaction, but still … the rimmer was LICKING the guy’s ASSHOLE. Get over it. Shit happens (OK, not shit in this case, but damn close).

     And I speak from experience — I’m fond of being the top and the bottom when it comes to rimming.

     Years ago, I had a slightly similar experience. I was fucking my lover, when he (involuntarily) dropped a loud, long fart. Needless to say, any thought of orgasms went out the window that night — but we giggled the night away, and this episode endures. It’s one we remember to this day. Definitely worth it!

     But thanks for a great column, Savage. You can fart in my face anytime!

     – David

187. chibiyui @185:

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

     Nice try. Am I to assume that name-calling is all you have left by way of argument, or do you intend to present some actual logic along with your tantrum?

188. Did anyone else find Dan’s use of the phrase “inconsiderate asshole” in response to the letter from someone who accidentally farted while being rimmed hilarious? Kills me.

189. Apparently a guy I fucked is into farting. He loved to rim me and I was okay with that. That’s as far as it went before we no longer spoke (drama, yay!). But a year later I found his X-tube page and his favorite videos were closeups of guys farting, or getting face-fulls of farts.
     I’m soo glad I was out of there before any of that started!

190. “As a 20-something, you completely lack the perspective of what if feels like to be 45, in order to comment intelligently on how those older than you ought to feel and act.”

     This is EXACTLY why May/December romances CAN be skeevy! And the above was a comment response supporting the aging Lothario!
     Not all May/December romances ARE skeevy. Some older partners are more immature than others, and some younger partners are more mature than others. Everything is contextual. Obviously. And hello, guys that are creepy at 50 were probably somewhat creepy at 15, or 35. If only they would wear signs.
     I’m a girl who knows how manipulative women can be; the older men should be very worried about the hot 20 something in their beds. She may be stupid now, but there is a very real possibility she will milk. you. dry. in the future and not in the good way.

191. well ive gotten farted on while licking a chicks front butt but a fart in the mouth owww i bet he’ll be tasting that one for a while. honestly though i dont think i could have any respect for anyone that licked my ass. let alone kiss them after. sorry thats just my thinking. but to each thier own.

192. @187 I’m not arguing with you. My last statement concerning any sort of disagreement pertaining to FDKAB was at 155, which you ignored. at 185, I was pointing out that you have the belief that you should be able to bang whomever of your hopefully hypothetical children’s friends, and that your hypothetical children should just deal with it. Because who cares that the parent is messing up their interpersonal relationships, they raised them, they should be able to bang any one of their kids friends and not have any repercussions for their choice. A person with that sort of mentality does not make a good parent. None of the rational arguments on here are condemning FDKAB for the age difference, it’s friendship that was probably ruined by HIS interjection into HIS CHILDS social circle. AND HE KNEW IT FROM THE START. If you want to bang a twenty year old, just do it, no one cares as long as it’s consensual. But a person can do that without messing up their kids friendships. Or at least a decent person can.
     The asshole with a superiority complex comes from the fact that your recent comments end with you putting down whomever your arguing with with statements like “It’s not all about you” “self-entitled much?”. If you want to get your kicks and feel better about yourself online, fine do it, but don’t cry if someone calls you out on it.

193. where’s our new column, Dan?

     It’s Wednesday..

194. Hmmm. I used to think the hetero or homo May/December thing was lame, until… I started dating my BF. He’s 31. I’m 47. He asked me out. I never hit on guys much younger than I when I am single. We just clicked. I adore him. His Mom (they are close)is 52 and very happy for him that he has someone in his life. She and I get along just fine right from the start.

     Now a divoraced dad banging his daughters best friend is way lame and very poor judgement. The dude is a tool and deserves to be ignored by his daughter.

     A FART in the face, although unpleasant for most, comes w/the rimming territory. I am surprised no one tried to one up that. Rimming leads to butt F’in and that can stimulate peristolsis and there’s an outside chance of ending up w/a dump in the bed. It could have been much worse. Just saying. I suspect FART wasn’t picking up on many clues w/his date and after 3 dates thats pretty much enough to figure out if you’re interested in sticking around or not. The FART was a convenient excuse to bail. Plus the lame e-card.

195. #78 Yes, women need a taste of what it’s like to be accused of rape. Why don’t we trade? Men can start getting raped at a 1 to 4 ratio and women can start getting falsely accused of rape at a 1 to 40,000 ratio. And we all know that getting falsely accused of rape is SO much worse than getting raped, so I totally understand your frustration with women and our privileged position.

     😉

196. I imagine that if FDKAB thought for five minutes about his daughter — his lovely daughter that he is so pissed at for not paying enough attention to him — going out and banging one of his middle-aged golf buddies, business partners, or pals, he’d be left retching. It’s gross because of the violation of trust and friendship. More than that his letter is just so damn whiny. He doesn’t understand why his daughter doesn’t want to talk to him, with all the overtones of secrecy and incest and booting her out of his life, only to be replaced by a new and different daughter figure? I wouldn’t talk to him either, and he needs to realize that he just lost the respect of his child and caused her a great deal of trauma. I hope having his ego & dick pumped up by his sweet thang is worth it.

197. Yes, a very late post. Just got a chance to read the archive, It’s about the response to FART. Wow. Not where I expected it to go. I would have done exactly what FART did, and be just as baffled/miffed by the extremity of the response. My husband and I have had similar, though not as extreme situations. When we first got together, he was quite prim on many things. Me, not so much, and I have quite the sarcastic edge to my tongue. (A familial legacy.) There were some missteps in the early times where I snarked off some incident or other to his total mortification, but we came to the understanding that, yes, I needed to be more conscientious in my words and attitude, but that just as much, he needed to lighten the fuck up. He’s lightened some, I’ve enlightened some. I can still piss him off on occasion, but I’m more aware when I’ve done it and he’s more accepting that I can be a thoughtless pig but my heart’s in the right place. Yes, it is a matter of growth, but it started at what seems to be close levels to what FART experienced. If Miss No-air-from-there felt the need to snap so hard, then break it off, I think FART is all the better for it. Too bad the other cheek then got a return swipe from you for sharing his story, my guess hoping for a “lighten the fuck up” from you to Miss Tight-ass. Well, Fart, you’ve got it from me. Love you, Dan, but this one really threw me a curve.

198. CLG’s ex-boyfriend may have an additional reason for wanting to keep as much distance from CLG as possible. He may be thinking “If she is capable of making a false rape allegation against one ex, then she can make a false allegation against me.”

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