My husband has a cuckold fetish, which we have indulged through two drunken threesomes with two of his best friends. The first time, he really had to talk me into it. The second time, he steered me in that direction and I took the wheel. I now have had sex alone with Friend Two a few times. My husband was okay with it at first, but now he wants it to stop. I like the control he gave me, and now I don’t want to be told no. He opened the door, and I don’t want to close it. What do I do?
Not Ready To Stop
You close the damn door and you let your husband see that it’s closed. You tell him that you’d rather the door were still open, NRTS, but you assure him that it’s closed for now and will remain closed until he’s ready to open it again.
That’s pretty much the only way you can have your husband and, at some point down the road, “the control he gave you” too, i.e., his consent to fuck around with other men. Then you’ll be able to open the door to a threesome again, this time without a booze assist. Although it might take him longer to get comfortable with the idea of you seeing other guys alone, which seems to have triggered the wrong kind of anxiety, i.e., anxiety of the non-boner-inducing variety, which is not what emotionally safe and sane cuckolding is all about.
Trust me, NRTS: Your husband is still into cuckolding. That’s not a kink that evaporates after one or two drunken threesomes. He’s probably just a little spooked by how quickly you progressed from having to be talked into it to having to be talked out of it. A time-out will give him a chance to see—and give you a chance to demonstrate—that he is still your first priority, emotionally and sexually.
Which he still is, right?
I am a 23-year-old lesbian with a beautiful girlfriend whom I met a month ago. Here’s the problem: She screams so loudly throughout sex that I am concerned for my roommate and other people who live in our building, as well as the entire neighborhood. I would know how to handle this situation if she were completely mute during sex—draw her out, make it into a game, etc.—but I’m scared of telling her she’s too loud, because I don’t want to hamper her enjoyment. I even tried to make this into a role-play game where we would pretend we needed to be silent for some reason, but nothing makes a difference.
How can I approach this without making her self-conscious?
Lesbian Over Ungodly Din
You don’t want to make her self-conscious, and that’s a lovely impulse, but she’s making you self-conscious, LOUD, and you’re just going to have to risk making her self-conscious. Because we’re not talking about a few loud yelps or screams at the climax(es) of the act(s), which is something a roommate or a neighbor can reasonably be expected to endure, but caterwauling throughout. That’s not okay. Tell the new girlfriend that the yelling wouldn’t be a problem if you lived on 200 acres of land, but you live in an apartment building, in the city, and you have a roommate and neighbors.
Under those circumstances, you have a right to ask her to stifle herself. And if she reacts badly, or if she sulks like a child, then she’s obviously not mature enough to waste your valuable time (and tongue) on.
How come when I look up the history of the T-shirt on Wikipedia, there’s a picture of you? Are you aware of this?
Jewdizzle
I invented the T-shirt, and every time one is sold—even one with rapper 50 Cent on it—I get a royalty check. That’s why I don’t have to have a real job and can devote my time to answering questions from cuckolds’ wives, lesbians, and people interested enough in the history of the T-shirt to read the Wikipedia entry about it.
I want to thank you for the It Gets Better Project. My son is 14 and a sophomore in high school in rural Kentucky. He isn’t athletic. He isn’t religious. He isn’t in ROTC. He is constantly being called “gay” or “faggot,” oftentimes by the people he thought were his friends. He tries to ignore them, but it doesn’t stop them. He tries to debate them, but it doesn’t stop them. So far, it hasn’t gone beyond name-calling, but I worry. I showed him your site the day it went live. He sat down and watched the video that you and Terry put up. Since then, I have seen him checking the site out on his own. I don’t know if he is gay, but I do know that your message has touched him. Although he does confide that four years is still a long time to wait for things to get better. I think that seeing so many other people say the same thing holds much more weight than having his mother tell him. So thank you again for sharing.
A Concerned Mom
In the last two weeks, we’ve learned of five more teenagers who were being bullied and took their own lives: Cody Barker, age 17, of Shiocton, Wisconsin; Asher Brown, age 13, of Houston, Texas; Seth Walsh, age 13, of Tehachapi, California; Tyler Clementi, age 18, the Rutgers University student who jumped off the George Washington Bridge; and Raymond Chase, age 19, a student in Providence, Rhode Island. Their deaths come after the suicides of Justin Aaberg, age 15, of Anoka, Minnesota, and Billy Lucas, age 15, of Greensburg, Indiana.
Hundreds of LGBT people all over the world have uploaded videos to the It Gets Better Project’s YouTube channel in an effort to bring hope to kids who are being bullied because they are gay or perceived to be gay. People are sharing their stories and letting these kids know that it gets better. By the time you read this, the videos at the IGBP will have been viewed, collectively, more than a million times. Go to www.itgetsbetterproject.com to see the videos or to upload one of your own.
Four years is a long time to wait, ACM, and what about making things better right now? Gay, lesbian, bi, and trans activists, inspired by the IGBP, have launched the Make It Better Project. Events are planned for all over the country between now and October 11, which is National Coming Out Day, to raise awareness of the problem and to push for legislative action now, like the immediate passage of the Safe Schools Improvement Act and the Student Non-Discrimination Act. You can learn more about events in your community—and
how you can help to make it better now—at www.makeitbetterproject.com.
#57 re women with the reverse fetish: I know one and she’s me.
I would love to either have an FMF threesome with my husband or actually “give” him another woman as a “gift.” I’d like to stay and watch, but would leave if that’s what they wanted.
It’s not humiliation that I’m after (not in this context anyway.) It’s that I’m the only woman he has ever had sex with and it makes me really sad to think he could live his whole life, die and never had sex with anyone else!
I’ve brought up the threesome idea a few times, but he didn’t really seem into it.
I’m a pretty hot slutty wife (I like to think GGG) but shouldn’t he be at least curious as to what it would feel like with another woman?
89: “If women truly understood the psychological impact of cuckoldery, why would they do it to someone they love?”
If (men) truly understood the psychological impact of (cheating and rubbing their nose in it, which is what cuckoldry is), why would they do it to someone they love?
Does that make it clear how the dynamics can be symmetrical? This isn’t a problem of women doing this to men, but of one partner, regardless of sex, doing it to their unwilling spouse.
There was a time in my life that I could have used something like “it gets better”. When I was about 13 I was going to kill myself. I was going to and ready but didn’t because of a chance coincidence. I’m not LGBT, but still could have used the help to get through the times of my life when I was socially awkward, small and without friends. I’ve grown up to gain confidence, make many good friends, marry a beautiful woman, get a good (and stable) job, buy a beautiful home in a community that I love and many many other things that I thought I would never have. I am a contributing member of society and happy to be here.
Thank you for setting up a project that can help all people. Not just LGBT or teens but anyone. It is important to know that things get better….sometimes you need to be told a couple, a hundred, a thousand times before you get it.
There was a time in my life that I could have used something like “it gets better”. When I was about 13 I was going to kill myself. I was going to and ready but didn’t because of a chance coincidence. I’m not LGBT, but still could have used the help to get through the times of my life when I was socially awkward, small and without friends. I’ve grown up to gain confidence, make many good friends, marry a beautiful woman, get a good (and stable) job, buy a beautiful home in a community that I love and many many other things that I thought I would never have. I am a contributing member of society and happy to be here.
Thank you for setting up a project that can help all people. Not just LGBT or teens but anyone. It is important to know that things get better….sometimes you need to be told a couple, a hundred, a thousand times before you get it.
@91 because a lot of men are lowlife, selfish, scumbags with no honor or integrity. They use, and abuse people without regard to gender or sexual orientation.
I am definitely not refering to honest open or poly relationships.
I do think it’s important to note that NRTS didn’t mention wanting to “sleep around” with multiple partners, just the one guy whom her husband brought to their bed.
My original post was about cuckoldry, not the cuckoldry fetish, and why some men purposely pursue married or attached women specifically to cuckold some other male. What I was trying to say was that the women don’t really understand the true motivation of these men, which is to inflict harm on the other man. Trying to be logical and coherent at 2 AM can be a challenge.
The cruelest ones of all will make sure the other man finds out and then discard the female who has served her purpose and is of no further use to him. As I said they are engaged in dominance games and the women are just a means to an end.
Historically being cuckolded exposed the cuckold to extreme social derision and humiliation that often resulted in violence and still does in many cultures (such as honor killings, suicide, murder/suicide). I know there are comparable issues for women and gays. I give you the Rutgers incident and the case of the lovely freshmen girl who was so tormented by upper class females at her high school just because senior boys showed interest in her that she committed suicide. I can not even begin to fathom the mindset of these people. Just like I can’t understand the mindset of a pedophile or serial killer.
Broken hearts mend. Destroyed souls don’t.
Is there a “It Gets Better” project for black people?
Proud feminist here. Also wanted to say I love your idea, Gwenlane!
@107: If you want to speak of a sexual partner in the singular, that would be the spouse. Anyone in addition to that is by definition multiple partners.
Also, it’s not like she was complaining that she wanted five guys on the side and her husband would only agree to one. He wants zero outside partners. Any number higher than zero is a problem to him. So, no, it isn’t really as relevant as all that.
Re those people claiming that suicide is “contagious”…it’s not. There’s no spike in suicide attempts due to media coverage of a death, there’s a rise in successes…because when a suicide is reported, now people have a good idea of a “successful” method. And that’s where the “spike” in suicides comes from. It’s not that people who were otherwise perfectly fine suddenly decide to start killing themselves.
Givingwife @102 – sounds like you want him to have sex with another woman because you’re nice and looking out for him, but not because you actually fantasize about it and orgasm thinking of another woman straddling him. Which makes you a nice person (yay you!), but not someone who fetishizes the idea of her husband with another woman.
He may have his own reasons… insecurities about staying hard, or about another woman being attracted to him enough to say yes. I would take the pressure off. He knows you’re fine with it. If the situation comes up, and he wants to go for it, presumably he’ll remember that you were enthusiastic before.
Avast2006, I agree with you that if the idea of her with another guy is now upsetting to him, she shouldn’t talk about it in bed. But they could have a conversation (calmly, out of bed), where she asks whether there’s some aspect of the MMF that he’s still interested in. If there is, they could use their own sex time as a way to try to figure out what exactly he wants, and how that might coincide with what she wants.
Don’t know if anyone else around here reads Dear Prudence – I do, but after this week’s column I’m just about ready to quit.
http://www.slate.com/id/2270172/
Prudence’s response to a woman who worries that her husband is cheating on her with his best (male) friend – worries that, in the context of the letter, seem at least possible – is to crack a series of Brokeback Mountain jokes. If this bugs you as much as it does me, head on over there and give her a piece of your mind (since it looks like she’s actually reading and responding to reader comments).
What gets me is that more school districts aren’t being sued. In 1996, Jamie Nabozny, a gay Wisconsin kid, won almost $1m from his school district in a landmark case. If the districts and principals won’t address bullying because it’s the right thing to do, don’t you think they’d do it because losing a lawsuit will mean they can’t afford a football team anymore?
Wow! That was a lot of comments. I gave Dan the Reader’s Digest version of our relationship. I will read them all and respond if you are interested. I am shocked Dan answered my question so quickly! Love him! NRTS
NRTS here. I gave Dan the Reader’s Digest version of the issue. We are navigating new territory, but in no way is our relationship in jeopardy. We have a very active sex life since opening this up. He trusts this friend in particular and I am not suggesting that I do whatever I want. We are talking about twice in two years. He talks a lot about it during sex. All of us and just the friend and I. I think he likes giving me the control in fantasy rather than reality. I just want the freedom if the opportunity presents itself. He is naturally a more cautious person than I am. The first threesome was early on in our marriage. I didn’t even know this was possibly at the time. The second time many years later another trusted friend entered in. Yes, I took things a step further, but again we are navigating. That’s why I asked Dan’s opinion. Do I get a GGG t-shirt now?
No, you are not “navigating.” He’s calling for it to stop, and you don’t want to stop. That’s not “navigating.”
Clarification, please: You wrote “I now have had sex alone with Friend Two a few times.” Now you say “twice in two years” but proceed to give details about the threesomes. What exactly does “twice in two years” refer to?
Another clarification, please: “Yes, I took things a step further” With or without his explicit permission, obtained beforehand? If the answer to that question is “without” then again you aren’t “navigating,” you are cheating and hoping he will handle it well.
Clearly, he arranged for threesomes, which you eventually agreed to. What specifically makes you think that your outside adventures were part of the deal HE agreed to? In reality, not just in dirty talk during your sex sessions with your husband? You still don’t seem to get the difference between fantasy sex play and real life. He wanted fantasy. You want the real life version, which doesn’t even include him, and makes him uncomfortable. You don’t want to stop, despite it making him unhappy. That right there means you don’t get the GGG T-shirt.
You may think your relationship is in no jeopardy, but I maintain that that particular door stays open only so long as both people enthusiastically want it open. If he wants it closed, and you refuse to close it, you run a genuine risk of coming home one night to find not only has that door been closed for you, but the locks have been changed.
Frankly, the person I want to hear more from at this point is HIM.
Lady, if you think your son may be gay then I’d suggest to you that you need to move to a location more tolerant than rural Kentucky. Is it really worth 4 years of his hell just so you don’t have to move? Not to be melodramatic, but did you see the list of names Dan posted? For every one that killed themselves, I’m sure there are countless others who thought of it and wanted to. He’s watching videos of people trying to stop teenagers from killing themselves. OK? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Get him OUT of there – right now!
NRTS – I’ve been in your position. It is possible to find a solution that everyone is comfortable with. If you look way, way up near the top you’ll see what worked for us. I wish you well in your attempts to find a compromise.
In my situation, the reason my husband wasn’t super excited about my solo sex with the friend is just because he wanted to be there (threesomes make him very, very happy) but work schedules, etc. kept all three of us from being able to get together as often as we wanted to. My husband was willing to compromise to let me have some extra fun because I made sure to attend to his needs, too and because he was allowed the occasional extra fun with another (female) friend. Despite what so many people on here say, it isn’t necessarily about anger, resentment, vengance, or the imminent demise of the marriage. Sometimes it’s something as mundane as people’s work schedules.
@115: I agree, and did this even before I saw your post. Glad someone else noticed it. Emily Yoffe as Prudence seems to be getting snarkier over the years. Margo Adams as Prudence never made these lame jokes.
The It Gets Better Project is gorgeous.
I’ve always appreciated your column and other endeavors, but this time you’ve made this world a better place. For kids, what’s more.
Thank you.
The It Gets Better Project is gorgeous.
I’ve always appreciated your column and other endeavors, but this time you’ve made this world a better place. For kids, what’s more.
Thank you.
Wow, Dan. I had no idea you were so hot, until I looked up the wikipedia article on the T-shirt. This will completely alter my reading experience of you column.
Somebody should also tell people living in Greensburg Indiana that no matter what their sexual orientation etc etc is: eventually you can move out of rural Indiana. It’s all I can do not to drive into a post whenever I’m in that backwards-ass state.
@avast2000 We are navigating as I have stopped. Just because I don’t want to doesn’t mean I won’t. I am not refusing to close the door. That’s why I asked the question. Based on Dan’s comments and yours and other members of this site it will open up a discussion for us. I told him that Dan featured a question I asked in his column. He has been working and has not read it yet. I let you know what he says if you are interested.
@immune5 Threesomes would be the ideal. Like I said, it has been twice in two years with his friend alone. If the opportunity presents itself, I want to be able to take it. If it is threesomes alone that he wants, then I guess I will wait.
u invented tshirt? WOW, if, in any way, it’s able to be verified, salute to you. But i m deeply suspicious of this. u were born 1968?, and tshirt existed way before that. another possibility is u smartly played the game by patenting tshirt? hardly to believe u can entirely take credit for it. anyway, still loving ur column .
u invented tshirt? WOW, if, in any way, it’s able to be verified, salute to you. But i m deeply suspicious of this. u were born 1968?, and tshirt existed way before that. another possibility is u smartly played the game by patenting tshirt? hardly to believe u can entirely take credit for it. anyway, still loving ur column .
NRTS, thanks for the clarifications. I thought that you not wanting to close it meant the door was still open. That you have stopped already puts the situation in a different light.
If you are in the negotiating phase, you have to find out: a) exactly what it is about what you want to do that makes him unhappy (and respect that, don’t try to psychoanalyze him out of it); b) exactly what he wants out of the situation; c) if there are some things that he can have permission to do in exchange for what you want, that make him happy (e.g., can he go have solo sex with girlfriends of his choosing, too), assuming that these things are actually likely to happen, and not just a paper concession.
Good luck.
Dan Savage deserves a MacArthur genuis award! You are inspirational
@57 asked: Does anyone know of someone who has the reverse fetish: a wife who loves imagining her husband screwing other women?
I was with a woman like this once. She took me to a strip club, paid my entry, and bought me a lap dance. We then had sex in the car. From the stories she told me about her other relationships and escapades, I concluded that she was actually into dominant guys who got lots of play. A twist is that I think she also wanted to be gaming with guy to be “top bitch”.
@133 – thank you! That is so hot! And right on point.
I’m thinking NRTS’s husband might have been turned on by the control aspect as much as, or maybe even more than, the cuckolding aspect. Because when he “made” her do it by getting her drunk and convincing her to fuck another guy, he thought it was hot. But when she went and fucked another guy of her own volition, he was no longer pleased.
Bingo. What you have is potentially a relationship with two tops in it, which is probably more dangerous (to the relationship) than the cuckold fetish.
It sounds to me like both of them have a real taste for control, which like Dan noted with the cuckold fetish, doesn’t just go away. I hope they decide to do some research on dominance and submission and find some folks knowledgeable in that area to help talk them through things. I’d be willing to bet it will crop up again.
Regarding NRST:
This is why fantasy is just fantasy and not reality. What goes on in my head like a threesome goes on great in my head because I’m the director. I would love to have a three way with my wife and another woman. But that’s only in my head. When my rational thinking comes back I would never do it. Because maybe my wife might like her better than me sexually. Or the other girl might think my penis is too small. All these things never go on in my fantasy. I can’t control reality. It is sometimes dangerous to mix fantasy and reality. This is just my opinion and I’m not being critical of people who do mix fantasy and reality.
Regarding the wikipedia entry, I did briefly make the caption Dan in a T-Shirt, but someone changed it back and now whenever I go back and do it again, they change it back, so I gave up.
It’s Gets Better is a stunning idea and I think that some of the rights lobbies or community groups should give Dan a prize or a certificate for it.
NRST,
it’s simple. It was something attempted, something he wanted to explore, YOU were willing. Drunk or not. It wasn’t forced upon you… no pity trip there. He’s uncomfortable with you taking the ball and running with it, it isn’t just about you being in control, it’s about you going the extra yards. How about he now heads out the door and finds whatever extra women he wants to fuck. Would you be ok with that, or would you too then say “maybe we should take a few steps back here”. You know you would. We all would. It’s ok to get what we want, whatever it takes to make us happy… As a few said, obviously this is something you wanted because you did go a few steps further and make this something all about YOU. You took your husband out of the equation and started fucking the friend on your own. So he’s being selfish by saying STOP? Wrong.
If what you want is freedom, go with it, leave the marriage, or let him DTFB (you). If not, work TOGETHER. Sorry that you will no longer be able to live our your sexual dreams. Life goes on.
@3, @7 (immune5),
I don’t know about NRTS (they seem to be having a communication failure in that relationship; I hope they work it out, because these things can grow and become relationship killers), but I’m glad that you found a good solution for cuckolding your husband and keeping him happy with the idea. Since I’m myself interested in it (and, who knows? maybe my wife will be, too, someday), I am always glad to hear that the situation is working out well for someone. Have fun!
LOUD: Ball gag.
Now, I’ll be in my bunk.
I sorry, but I just don’t see how two drunken threesomes many years apart followed her fucking the friend twice in two years translates into a cuckold fetish or even a fantasy?
It just doesn’t sound like a sexual fixation.
@141, if you read @118, which is from the OP, NRTS, you’ll see she says: “He talks a lot about it during sex.” So, yes, the idea of her fucking other men does something for him, sexually.
But as avast has been discussing with her, she needs to slow things down and figure out what they can do to keep their own sex life hot. That may mean returning to just fantasizing about other men, it may mean having her husband along when she fucks other men, it may mean excluding one particular other guy from consideration, whatever -that’s up to them to figure out.
Dan the Man, you’ve done it again!! Major kudos for your It Gets Better campaign!!
I live for your column!
LongTime Reader is correct, from someone who knows (I was a ‘domme’, who somehow ‘made’ a ‘sub’ guy suck dicks, but anytime this dominatrix (& I really am, sometimes- it’s just not my ONLY kink) tried to get him to actually *submit*, he refused -and somehow I still ended up with my boobs tied, fucking another guy so he could ‘be forced’ to suck his dick.
(He now preaches and is a deacon in a distinctly non-gay-friendly (I asked) Calvinist church. I think he wants buttsecks with the Pastor, personally.)
Cordially, BTDT
@63, yes, the bulliers should have a punishment and you should take your head out of your ass and realize that a person does not have to have “severe mental problems” to committ suicide. In many cases people who have, as you put it, “severe mental problems”, have them from the effects of being bullied. The bulliers plant seeds into the persons being bullied heads that they are not wanted in this world so whats the point? And in these cases the victims committ suicide which the fault ultimately lays at the feet of the bullier. So it should be considered manslaughter, at whatever degree
As someone with a serious cuckold fetish, I think Dan’s advice to NRTS is RIGHT ON and shows a real understanding of the fact that the fetish is often an anxiety-induced fetish, producing some stop-start or contradictory behavior. I can guarantee you that the husband is incredibly turned on by the wife’s behavior, even though he’s also scared at the same time. There is definitely a real difference between the affairs where the husband asks her to start, and the ones she starts on her own, and it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a control freak just because that worries him.
I’ve tried desperately to convince my wife to cuckold me, either with my help or without. If she finally goes through with it, and starts initiating it herself regularly, I’m sure I will be scared too, although it will turn me on like nothing else.
Understanding that dynamic and playing on it, can lead to turn-ons for both of you that are beyond what he or NRTS would ever have imagined.
As someone with a serious cuckold fetish, I think Dan’s advice to NRTS is RIGHT ON and shows a real understanding of the fact that the fetish is often an anxiety-induced fetish, producing some stop-start or contradictory behavior. I can guarantee you that the husband is incredibly turned on by the wife’s behavior, even though he’s also scared at the same time. There is definitely a real difference between the affairs where the husband asks her to start, and the ones she starts on her own, and it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a control freak just because that worries him.
I’ve tried desperately to convince my wife to cuckold me, either with my help or without. If she finally goes through with it, and starts initiating it herself regularly, I’m sure I will be scared too, although it will turn me on like nothing else.
Understanding that dynamic and playing on it, can lead to turn-ons for both of you that are beyond what he or NRTS would ever have imagined.