My husband has a cuckold fetish, which we have indulged through two drunken threesomes with two of his best friends. The first time, he really had to talk me into it. The second time, he steered me in that direction and I took the wheel. I now have had sex alone with Friend Two a few times. My husband was okay with it at first, but now he wants it to stop. I like the control he gave me, and now I don’t want to be told no. He opened the door, and I don’t want to close it. What do I do?
Not Ready To Stop
You close the damn door and you let your husband see that it’s closed. You tell him that you’d rather the door were still open, NRTS, but you assure him that it’s closed for now and will remain closed until he’s ready to open it again.
That’s pretty much the only way you can have your husband and, at some point down the road, “the control he gave you” too, i.e., his consent to fuck around with other men. Then you’ll be able to open the door to a threesome again, this time without a booze assist. Although it might take him longer to get comfortable with the idea of you seeing other guys alone, which seems to have triggered the wrong kind of anxiety, i.e., anxiety of the non-boner-inducing variety, which is not what emotionally safe and sane cuckolding is all about.
Trust me, NRTS: Your husband is still into cuckolding. That’s not a kink that evaporates after one or two drunken threesomes. He’s probably just a little spooked by how quickly you progressed from having to be talked into it to having to be talked out of it. A time-out will give him a chance to see—and give you a chance to demonstrate—that he is still your first priority, emotionally and sexually.
Which he still is, right?
I am a 23-year-old lesbian with a beautiful girlfriend whom I met a month ago. Here’s the problem: She screams so loudly throughout sex that I am concerned for my roommate and other people who live in our building, as well as the entire neighborhood. I would know how to handle this situation if she were completely mute during sex—draw her out, make it into a game, etc.—but I’m scared of telling her she’s too loud, because I don’t want to hamper her enjoyment. I even tried to make this into a role-play game where we would pretend we needed to be silent for some reason, but nothing makes a difference.
How can I approach this without making her self-conscious?
Lesbian Over Ungodly Din
You don’t want to make her self-conscious, and that’s a lovely impulse, but she’s making you self-conscious, LOUD, and you’re just going to have to risk making her self-conscious. Because we’re not talking about a few loud yelps or screams at the climax(es) of the act(s), which is something a roommate or a neighbor can reasonably be expected to endure, but caterwauling throughout. That’s not okay. Tell the new girlfriend that the yelling wouldn’t be a problem if you lived on 200 acres of land, but you live in an apartment building, in the city, and you have a roommate and neighbors.
Under those circumstances, you have a right to ask her to stifle herself. And if she reacts badly, or if she sulks like a child, then she’s obviously not mature enough to waste your valuable time (and tongue) on.
How come when I look up the history of the T-shirt on Wikipedia, there’s a picture of you? Are you aware of this?
Jewdizzle
I invented the T-shirt, and every time one is sold—even one with rapper 50 Cent on it—I get a royalty check. That’s why I don’t have to have a real job and can devote my time to answering questions from cuckolds’ wives, lesbians, and people interested enough in the history of the T-shirt to read the Wikipedia entry about it.
I want to thank you for the It Gets Better Project. My son is 14 and a sophomore in high school in rural Kentucky. He isn’t athletic. He isn’t religious. He isn’t in ROTC. He is constantly being called “gay” or “faggot,” oftentimes by the people he thought were his friends. He tries to ignore them, but it doesn’t stop them. He tries to debate them, but it doesn’t stop them. So far, it hasn’t gone beyond name-calling, but I worry. I showed him your site the day it went live. He sat down and watched the video that you and Terry put up. Since then, I have seen him checking the site out on his own. I don’t know if he is gay, but I do know that your message has touched him. Although he does confide that four years is still a long time to wait for things to get better. I think that seeing so many other people say the same thing holds much more weight than having his mother tell him. So thank you again for sharing.
A Concerned Mom
In the last two weeks, we’ve learned of five more teenagers who were being bullied and took their own lives: Cody Barker, age 17, of Shiocton, Wisconsin; Asher Brown, age 13, of Houston, Texas; Seth Walsh, age 13, of Tehachapi, California; Tyler Clementi, age 18, the Rutgers University student who jumped off the George Washington Bridge; and Raymond Chase, age 19, a student in Providence, Rhode Island. Their deaths come after the suicides of Justin Aaberg, age 15, of Anoka, Minnesota, and Billy Lucas, age 15, of Greensburg, Indiana.
Hundreds of LGBT people all over the world have uploaded videos to the It Gets Better Project’s YouTube channel in an effort to bring hope to kids who are being bullied because they are gay or perceived to be gay. People are sharing their stories and letting these kids know that it gets better. By the time you read this, the videos at the IGBP will have been viewed, collectively, more than a million times. Go to www.itgetsbetterproject.com to see the videos or to upload one of your own.
Four years is a long time to wait, ACM, and what about making things better right now? Gay, lesbian, bi, and trans activists, inspired by the IGBP, have launched the Make It Better Project. Events are planned for all over the country between now and October 11, which is National Coming Out Day, to raise awareness of the problem and to push for legislative action now, like the immediate passage of the Safe Schools Improvement Act and the Student Non-Discrimination Act. You can learn more about events in your community—and
how you can help to make it better now—at www.makeitbetterproject.com.
@50 I would have agreed with you completely until a few days ago, when I listened to the radio program Dan linked to. Until that point, I thought if I told any of my kids that I was fine with it if they were gay, then I might make them self-conscious about their behaviour/appearance (“why did she say that? was it that shirt??”), and I assumed because we have a really open relationship, that it would be fine. When I listened to the email this woman sent in to the radio program (link is above @5) I was floored, and realized that I should have just made sexual orientation something that was part of all my “chats”, and not made it a big deal, just put it out there that I was fine with it. I agree that having a heart to heart with a 14 year old of the “son, are you gay” variety would probably be a mistake, as it would put a lot of pressure on them.
@17: I don’t have an answer for that question, but I’m sure that someone on /b/ would.
@39: The concept was talking about it specifically during their sex sessions, thereby killing whatever sex life the two of them had left. There is no evidence from the letter that that was how the husband went about it.
In any case, it obviously DIDN’T kill her arousal, did it? Your objection would imply that he’s potentially a hypocritical asshole because he coerced her into doing something that she still doesn’t like, and that’s not the case here, is it? She’s quite happy with the current state of, er, affairs. He on the other hand, isn’t happy any more, but she doesn’t want to stop, despite his feelings.
Regarding whether she is “obligated” to coddle his ego, no, she isn’t “obligated” — but she shouldn’t be surprised if he dumps her if she elects not to. Emotions are funny that way.
I agree with those that don’t view this as cuckolding. It looked like the husband just wanted to try threesomes, and it developed into the wife wanting to do it on a regular one on one basis, with or without the husband’s consent. I am thinking about letting my wife know that she can get it on with other guys, if she wants. If she doesn’t, then so be it. If she does, I expect to know about it, but not necessarily be there when it happens. I doubt she will ever take me up on this, but this is what I believe cuckolding is. Am I wrong?
@LOUD, do I know her?
Kidding aside, this is one of the few times I disagree with Dan. It can be hard to be quiet sometimes and it’s much closer to hardwired than an “if you really loved me” thing. So consider enlisting the help of a pillow or a gag or various parts of your body to absorb some of the noise. Or have sex over at her place.
@55 Traditionally, cuckolding involves humiliation of the husband, and a lot of talk about how the “bull” is better endowed, better able to perform, etc. etc.
But between cuckolding and MMF, there’s a vast array of possible activities with no humiliation involved. Instead, the husband is turned on by seeing or imagining his wife screwing other men. My advice for men who want to go there: bring it up as fantasy for a year or so, in bed, before suggesting it as a real possibility. Get your wife used to thinking the idea is hot, before she has to adjust to breaking society’s codes in that way.
Does anyone know of someone who has the reverse fetish: a wife who loves imagining her husband screwing other women? (Wives imagining their husbands with other men is pretty common, in my experience.)
I meant to say, also, that some husbands who aren’t turned on by the idea of their wife having extramarital sex, still agree to it, to be GGG.
@54: Since he did badger her and got her drunk when she didn’t want to do it, he still is a hypocritical asshole. The fact they she came to like it in the end is irrelevant to that fact. I’m amazed she didn’t dump his ass at the beginning.
@54: We don’t actually know the circumstances in which he first brought up the idea of her having sex with other men. I sort of assumed it would probably have been during sex/dirty talk, since that’s usually when people are feeling aroused and uninhibited enough to talk about that kind of taboo subject (it’s certainly the only time my guy mentions about it).
But no, I don’t know the specific circumstances. Just like *you* don’t actually know that her talking about it again during sex would “kill whatever sex life the two of them had left”. It’s conjecture.
And whether she grew to like it is besides the point – she was uninclined at first, and he had to nag her and get her drunk in order to agree to it. I think if she can put up with that and not dump him then he ought to be satisfied as long as she stops having sex with other men; I really don’t see why she should lie about finding the idea hot, since he’s clearly not shy about voicing his turn-ons.
@33, Forlorn:
I’ve got nothing to say except that my heart goes out to you and to your son whom you so clearly love. I absolutely think personal protection orders and charges are appropriate, and if you and your son are prepared to go to court to make them stick, then do it. It’s a hard thing to follow through on–my family went through it with my brother–but I absolutely think that bullies need to face legal repercussions for their actions. Hang in there!
LOOOOOOOOOOONG time reader, first time commenter.
Dan- you rock in so many ways. I think the It Gets Better project is one of the most beautiful things I have heard about in ages. Thanks for initiating this.
Secondly, I had to go look up Tee Shirt in wikipedia, and yep there you are – go figure. And yes, I do have *way* too much time on my hands.
Keep up the great work!
While I admire this project, I abhor the idea of legal prosecutions against bullies for suicides, apparently the knee-jerk reaction of many people here. The idea that bullying actually causes people to commit suicide, gay or straight, is ludicrous. Many, if not most, kids are bullied in some way or another, especially if they are gay. A small number of kids commit suicide. It stands to reason, then, that of the kids that commit suicide, many will have been bullied. Furthermore, of gay kids that commit suicide, most will have been bullied. But it does not prove that bullying causes suicide. It’s this misunderstanding of statistics and causation–inflated a hysterical media–that causes a lot of bad public policy, everything from the censorship of music to city pit bull bans. While bullying should not be tolerated, holding some kid legally responsible for another person’s severe mental problems is unconscionable. Let’s offer support–through projects like “It Get’s Better”–but how about we hold off on the witch hunts.
It really does get better: my 82 year old mother recently announced that she didn’t think my nephew was living at home because “maybe he has a boyfriend”…but then she said “I wish he would just bring him home and let us meet him, he is welcome as family.” Since my mom and I spent many years at swords points due to my sexuality, I almost wrecked the car—so much for talking while you drive!
However, nephew, bow yourself down to my feet—I went first! Seriously, I’m glad it has changed.
@57 – That’s always the impression that I got from what I’ve read of cuckolding. The fantasy isn’t that he “wants” his wife to go out and fuck other guys. It’s that she goes out and does it and then comes home and brags about it to him, or even forces the husband to lick up her stud’s ejaculate. It is humiliation, a lack of control.
This guy just sounds like he wants his wife to give control of her body to him to use as he wants. Which could work, if she was okay with it. But I suspect she isn’t.
I teach at a university in England and am part of the lgbt staff group there. In conjunction with the lgbt student group, we’re running a coming-out workshop next week. We want to have a safe environment for students to be able to talk about what it means to come out and to practice what they might say. I think it’s so important for those of us who are older and have been through difficult times due to our sexuality or gender identity to do whatever we can to support the next generation of lgbt people. I hope more universities/colleges/high schools will do the same.
The videos on the site made me cry. Let’s keep doing all we can for young lgbt people.
Wow, bunch of fuckwads in here. Dan (as usual) was right on the money with his advice to NRTS. A GGG couple explores and indulges kinks and desires because, uh, why again? Because they fucking care about each other! I indulge my partner, and she indulges me, because we fucking love it, and love each other. Why would we continue doing something without being on the same page, in a spirit of trust and excitement? Well, we wouldn’t. That shit’s just common sense.
Dan: “give him a chance to see—and give you a chance to demonstrate—that he is still your first priority, emotionally and sexually.”
Bingo. Sometimes it really is that simple.
everytime i wear a t=shirt, i shall think of you, Dan. thank you for the t-shirts.
First things first, I’m shocked that a city full of people who can refer to themselves using words like “cis-gendered”, “genderqueer”, “leather Daddy dyke” and “pussyboi” without the slightest bit of shame or concern would read this letter and immediately jump to the conclusion that the husband is a cuckold. I can think of three reasons for a guy to do what he did that have nothing to do with cuckolding (at least, the stereotypical Internet cuckolding.)
1. He’s already cheated on her, so he’s returning the favor.
2. She’s literally his perfect woman, but he can’t keep up with her appetites.
3. He’s being “considerate”, as in he wants to open up the relationship and/or have threeways, but he’s not the type of guy who’d pull the “FFM, then MMF” card.
I don’t think that he’s a cuckold. I *do* think that his self-esteem is low enough for him to think that he isn’t “man enough” for her (which is slightly different than being a cuckold. I know a few cuckolds, none of them show anything near hesitation at the idea of their wives fucking around behind their backs/in front of them/over webcam/in another state…) If he were really a cuckold, he would have mentioned some level of power exchange (chastity, cross-dressing, bisexuality or more) long before NRTS allowed herself to “blame it on the Henny.” Unless, of course, that little details was omitted from the published excerpt.
Anyway, from what little information was given, I can only come to one conclusion: NRTS forgot to continue to fuck her husband. Whether your lover is “better” (sizewise, stamina-wise, whatever) than your husband or not, it’s your responsibility to maintain the lines of communication, satisfy his own urges and show devotion to the primary relationship. Relationships have to hold some level of reciprocity. When they don’t, they fall apart and people start writing letters to advice columnists. And the fact that NRTS immediately assumed that “husband wants to have sex with me while I have sex with another guy”=”husband wants me to fuck as many guys as I want without worrying about his concerns because he’s a slimy little cuckold”, is destabilising enough.
But if you really want to be sure of your husband’s status, here’s a piece of advice: Walk up to him in the light of day and ask him in a firm voice, “So what *would* you do if I went back over to {friend’s name}’s house, anyway?” If he’s a cuckold, he’ll either back down or his body will give him away.
Ok. I haven’t been able to stop thinking about the “It Gets Better” project. It made me think of something else we can do to help the kids. We need something aimed at the adults who look the other way in regards to bullying. I always hear adults say “they are just kids!” And I always say “EXACTY!” This is when you, as an adult, are supposed to teach a child that abuse is wrong.
The bullying that goes on in our schools is criminal. If adults tried to do this in the workplace or on the subway, in the grocery store or wherever, THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED. Could you imagine if your boss or co-worker shoved you into the coat closet or took your work proposal and threw it?
We need to start a “How Would You Like It?” campaign, aimed at adults. We could have videos that show bosses in expensive suits, body checking associates. The tagline could be “Well, what do you expect? You never told them it was wrong.” Or “Adults will be Adults.”
Who’s with me?
Ok. I haven’t been able to stop thinking about the “It Gets Better” project. It made me think of something else we can do to help the kids. We need something aimed at the adults who look the other way in regards to bullying. I always hear adults say “they are just kids!” And I always say “EXACTY!” This is when you, as an adult, are supposed to teach a child that abuse is wrong.
The bullying that goes on in our schools is criminal. If adults tried to do this in the workplace or on the subway, in the grocery store or wherever, THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED. Could you imagine if your boss or co-worker shoved you into the coat closet or took your work proposal and threw it?
We need to start a “How Would You Like It?” campaign aimed at adults. We could have videos that show bosses in expensive suits, body checking associates. The tagline could be “Well, what do you expect? You never told them it was wrong.” Or “Adults will be Adults.”
Friends don’t let friends vote Republican.
Another excellent column, Dan, the Tshirt King!
I meant, RePIGlickan.
When I read LOUD’s letter, I thought of this comic: http://xkcd.com/316/ .
Anyone who has a loud girlfriend, consider going to Halloween as this comic. You wear an elliptical reflector dish, she wears a sign pointing to herself that says “LOUD”. It should work fine with loud boyfriends as well.
60: ““It’s conjecture.” Not sure where I ever stated otherwise, but whatever. I was just providing another viewpoint, as a warning that the suggested tactic MIGHT backfire.
“…get her drunk in order to agree to it.” Really? Now you are the one overstating the evidence. A lot of people use alcohol to lower their inhibitions in an experimental situation. They probably all got drunk together at the start of the encounter to get comfortable. This was most likely days after she had already agreed. They had to have time for her to agree, for him to consult the friend, and for all of them to arrange a date. To hear you talk, he spiked her Earl Grey, immediately sneaked his friend into the bedroom, and took advantage of her incapacity.
What we know for sure is this — and it makes an interesting comparison:
— She: required a great deal of persuasion to try his thing, finally tried it twice, and found that she likes it a hell of a lot.
— He: didn’t need a great deal of persuasion to try her thing, tried it twice (or more; “a few times” is probably more than two), and found that he doesn’t like it.
God what an asshole he is for talking her into trying something that it turns out she fucking loves. So, now he owes her an equal period of time putting up with something that he already tried out and knows he hates? Do you have any idea how crazy you sound?
There’s nothing remotely symmetrical about that. He doesn’t owe her some sort of prolonged break-in period to prove that he hates it. HE TRIED IT ALREADY. He already gave her thing at least as many goes as she did, and he knows it makes him unhappy. Nor is it payback for him being persistent. He talked her into finally doing something she loves doing. Nagging her into it turned out to be doing her a favor.
@gwenlane – EXCELLENT idea and point. Absolutely excellent.
@NRTS – You’re angry, aren’t you? He twisted your arm into doing something that you didn’t want. He ignored your feelings, used your body, and asked you to open yourself and your intimacy to someone else, someone you know well
(his best friends). He totally disregarded your coupledom and your needs and you’re pissed. He treated you like a common slut, not like his beloved and respected wife.
Therefore, now that you have this open door to fuck his friends, you’re taking it and running with it and using it to twist his “permission” in his back. “You wanted me to fuck these guys and I didn’t? Well tough shit asshole, I now can and I WILL!”
Bad idea. Voice your anger. Voice your resentment. Voice your needs. Because you need him to understand he can’t just use your body and coerce you and disrespect you like that. GGG is one thing, but that is of one’s own volition. Drunk and coerced? Not GGG, not cool. Therapy my dear. Try it – you two need it.
@gwenlane – EXCELLENT idea and point. Absolutely excellent.
@NRTS – You’re angry, aren’t you? He twisted your arm into doing something that you didn’t want. He ignored your feelings, used your body, and asked you to open yourself and your intimacy to someone else, someone you know well
(his best friends). He totally disregarded your coupledom and your needs and you’re pissed. He treated you like a common slut, not like his beloved and respected wife.
Therefore, now that you have this open door to fuck his friends, you’re taking it and running with it and using it to twist his “permission” in his back. “You wanted me to fuck these guys and I didn’t? Well tough shit asshole, I now can and I WILL!”
Bad idea. Voice your anger. Voice your resentment. Voice your needs. Because you need him to understand he can’t just use your body and coerce you and disrespect you like that. GGG is one thing, but that is of one’s own volition. Drunk and coerced? Not GGG, not cool. Therapy my dear. Try it – you two need it.
@63: I don’t think they’re talking about prosecuting bullies for the suicides, I think they’re talking about prosecuting bullies for, ya know, bullying. At least when it takes the form of relatively actionable things like, oh, assault, theft, destruction of property…
Just because you’re a kid doesn’t mean you shouldn’t face some kind of consequences for attacking another kid. I’m not saying haul ’em off to jail for the first punch (there’s diminished capacity and all that to consider), but we shouldn’t treat bullying, and especially reoccurring violent bullying, as “kids just being kids”, or as the victim’s fault/problem.
I like #70’s idea of a campaign showing how ridiculous ignoring the kinds of behavior that (kid) bullies do every day would be if it was adults doing the bullying.
Bottom line is, NRTS:
1) It makes your husband unhappy when you sleep with other guys without him.*
2) It makes you unhappy to contemplate going back to monogamy.*
3) People who are forced into situations that make them unhappy often end up divorcing the cause of their unhappiness.
4) You get to either have your husband, or the freedom to sleep around. Which is more important to you? Choose. Then be happy with the fact that you got what’s important to you.
(*Are threesomes still an option? That seems like the most likely compromise position. If not, why not?)
Why are you looking up t-shirt on wikipedia?
Why are you wikipedia-ing t-shirt? And why, as you say “every time”, are you wikipedia-ing it more than once?
Did anybody here ever get away with “she started it!” when scolded for fighting as a kid? C’mon. Irrelevant.
I think lovers should go to as lengthy lengths as they can muster, to let their loves do “something they love doing”. How they got to love whatever it is they love doesn’t change that. The only relevant questions are: does the husband feel he has given it all he’s got (to become okay with NTRS’ extramarital sex), and if so, what can NTRS bring herself to give (up) to stay in the marriage?
If one of them wants a closed relationship, and the other one wants it open, they’re just going to have to bargain it out from there, regardless of blame. (Not that resentment should be disregarded, if it is left to fester it can mess up negotiations terribly. Resentment should be resolved, precisely because it shouldn’t factor into the eventual deal.)
Closing the relationship (for now) and showing the husband that his feelings are safe with her is a way for NTRS to possibly increase “the lengths her husband can go to” to let her do what she wants in the future. (All right, in the short term it’s also a way of decreasing assholishness, by not waltzing right over his breaking heart.)
Meh, I take a long time to say: what they should do is not dictated by who owes whom, but why who wants what.
If you aren’t a true cuckold fetishist, then actually being cuckolded (even if it was a fantasy and I don’t think it was the husband’s fantasy) is not fun. It is demeaning, degrading, and strikes at the very core of what it means to be a man for a lot of men. I don’t think women really get this or the long term, possibly permanent, damage it can do to a person. This is a separate and distinct issue from all the other issues associated with infidelity. Wether they admit it or not, the women are often of little or no consequence to men who target married or attached women, they are really engaged in dominance games with other men.
@83
Why wouldn’t a woman understand? Why is it only the hearts of men who are so fragile as to be destroyed by cuckoldery?
Your sexism speaks negatively of your opinions of BOTH men and women. Examine your prejudices, revise your post, and maybe you’ll have a point worth listening to. At this point you’re just spewing anti-humanity rhetoric.
BTW, I just wanna say – Joe Newton’s illustrations really put the icing on the cake every week. Love ’em.
BTW, I just wanna say – Joe Newton’s illustrations really ice the cake each week. Love ’em.
I certainly hope #63 doesn’t have a child who eventually commits suicide after assiduous bullying that was never stopped because it wasn’t legally prosecuted, especially if the child was never diagnosed as having what he/she refers to as “mental problems.”
@84 Why do feminists and you are obviously a feminist always resort to name calling and pyschobable. You display the typical hard core feminist refusal to accept that there are real physical and psychological differences between men and women. On a visceral level I can never, will never understand what it means to be a woman. I will never have a period, get pregnant, have an abortion, give birth, or nurse a child. I doubt I will ever be foolish enough or arrogant enough to assert that I intellectually understand what it means to be a woman. If that is your definition of sexism, so be it. Granted there are commonalities between men and women, but it is the differences that make life interesting.
@84 If women truly understood the psychological impact of cuckoldery, why would they do it to someone they love? Are you asserting that many women are inherently cruel? Not that some, maybe many men don’t deserve it. But you are right, that I have a low opinion of humanity supported by history and current events. I am never amazed by people”s inhumanity to people.
I speak not of the heart, but of the soul.
@88 While @84 is very likely a feminist, you too, sir are name calling. She is voicing her singular opinion and you are berating a group of people for that opinion.
Call her out all you want, but do not be “that guy” asking “why do ALL feminists…?” because ALL feminists don’t do ANY one thing. Period.
@75: Nowhere did I say that NRTS should keep on having sex with other men. Jeez, the level of discourse here would be much improved if people responded to each other’s actual arguments rather than projecting ideas onto them.
@89: If women truly understood the psychological impact of cuckoldery, why would they do it to someone they love?
Huh? That’s not much of an argument – you can easily flip it around and ask why men are sometimes unfaithful, if they really have such a deep understanding of how cruel infidelity is (and please bear in mind that men are more often unfaithful than women).
Maybe there’s two separate fetishes at work here…regular cuckold fetish, and some sort of control based, force your wife to have sex with other people fetish…maybe a pimp fetish? The cuckolidist would get off on the fact that his wife is being fucked by some other guy, but the pimp fetishist gets off more on the idea that he is Forcing his wife to have sex with someone else.
@75:
Nagging her into it turned out to be doing her a favor.
Except now she’s writing to Savage Love because her marriage is all screwed up, so clearly he didn’t do her that much of a favor. Also, I’m not sure “nagging” is quite the right word here. When you bother your spouse until s/he walks the dog or fixes the sink, that’s nagging. When you bother your spouse until s/he engages in a sexual activity that s/he is deeply uncomfortable with, that’s not so much “nagging” as “being a raging asshole.”
A lot of people use alcohol to lower their inhibitions in an experimental situation. They probably all got drunk together at the start of the encounter to get comfortable. This was most likely days after she had already agreed.
This could be the case, but it’s far from the only plausible scenario. Threesomes don’t necessarily need to be prenegotiated; speaking from personal experience, I don’t think it’s that uncommon for friends to plan to spend the evening hanging out and end up messing around after they’ve had a few beers. The way NRTS describes the second threesome — “he steered me in that direction and I took the wheel” — suggests some degree of spontaneity.
Even if NRTS agreed to the threesome in advance, while stone-cold sober, that hardly exonerates her husband. If you know that your spouse is only reluctantly willing to participate in a given sexual activity, engaging in that activity while your spouse is drunk is still an asshole move. It smacks of a calculated attempt to forestall any “take-backs.”
IT is these religious koooks that spread all this hate. There was a religious nut on Anderson Cooper saying if we ‘accept’ young gays, (i.e. don’t bully them) that it will only encourage them to “experiment” or “choose and alternative lifestyle.” Anderson Coooper let this pass, much to my dismay. There was an African American pastor on NPR who says homosexuality is part of the reason the black community is in such dire straights. WO! Not THAT’S a stretch, huh?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/201…
Just found that note on yahoo, I’m sure this project will make a difference, no one should have to put up with bullying!!!
LOUD – Maybe you can let your girlfriend know that you like it that she’s enjoying herself so much, but you worry about the practical implications (annoyed neighbors, landlords, etc.) and that if she can take it down a few notches when the two of you are getting busy at your place, you will go out of your way to find settings and occasions where she can let loose. Go on a remote camping trip, rent a cheap hotel room, find people with big empty houses to house-sit for, etc.
There is no fundamental difference between men and women. There is no “male brain” or “female brain.” There is a brain in every person and every person is different. Thinking that men respond differently to cuckolding than women is flat-out WRONG (you honestly believe that no women in the entire world have ever had a cuckold fetish too?).
Thinking like this leads to upholding of stupid stereotypes like “men want sex all the time” and “women want infrequent sex, and also use sex to get what they want.” In the relationships I’ve been in, as a het woman, I’ve ALWAYS been the one with the insatiable sex drive while my boyfriend would be turning me down. Sex roles have nothing to do with our penises and vaginas, mkay? Except insofar as one goes into the other.
Anyone who actually thinks otherwise is a proponent of evolutionary psychology, and is therefore full of bullshit.
@88: “On a visceral level I can never, will never understand what it means to be a woman. I will never have a period, get pregnant, have an abortion, give birth, or nurse a child.”
FYI, lots of women don’t get pregnant, have abortions, give birth, or nurse children. Naturally, such choices are *unique* to women. But not all of us partake.
Also, not sure if you realize this, but your comment @89 appears to be saying that because some women cheat, women can’t understand what it’s like to be cheated on. Might want to fix that before you go out and see people.
#97 Anyone who actually thinks evolutionary psychology has nothing to of use to say is a proponent of blinkered political correctness and is therefore full of bullshit.
Humans are really good at recognizing patterns – so good that they often see patterns that don’t exist. The point is you have to be really careful which patterns (“stereotypes”) you believe. You also have to realize any member of the patterned group is potentially an exception.
For example many (most?) people who post here are intelligent and open minded. You may be an exception.
@63 Children need boundaries and consequences, not just to protect the bullied srudents’ right to have a safe place to learn, but also so that those who are bullying can learn appropriate social behavior before fucking up when it can cost them a job or jail time. If schools have and enforce reasonable anti-bullying policies students almost always fall in line. I am a high school teacher, and have seen it work!
The whole “kids will be kids” justification is ridiculous–small children naturally grab what the want, throw tantrums, and hit eachother with liile provocation–should parents turn a blind eye?
Sounds to me like 63 either was (and likely still is) a bully or has justified the bullying he/she endured with this line.
91: Sorry, I was unclear writing about what she should or shouldn’t keep doing. What I meant was, if he dislikes her sleeping around, there is a good chance that he will dislike her telling him – especially in the middle of her sexual encounters with him — how much she wants to sleep around. There is a fair chance that he will take that as her rubbing his nose in it, and if so, don’t expect a happy ending. For that reason — not to mention simply if she truly cares about his feelings — proceed with caution.
That, and if he does dislike that, he does not owe her some long period of letting her pour what is to him poison in his ear, as payback for the long period of persuasion that he put her through. He doesn’t have to listen and listen and listen to her trying to turn him on to the idea for the simple fact that he already acquiesced, tried it, and found it really didn’t work for him.