I am a 33-year-old married male who has a WAM—wet and messy—fetish. I’m into mud and clay. I have played with various substances in the bathroom by myself over the years. It always ends with me masturbating myself into oblivion, wishing there were someone with me so we could sensuously rub against each other, etc., until we both climax. But I’m always alone!
I was always too shy to share this fetish with anyone until three years ago, when I told the woman I’ve now been married to for two years. She assured me that I should never be ashamed of any of my fantasies and that she would be glad to help me fulfill them. But when I went and got some clay from the art store, showed it to her, and said that we were going to be having some fun, she acted uncomfortable. Once I got the bathtub full of the “mud,” got naked, and started to coax her into the room, she totally freaked out.
Needless to say, I was mortified and disappointed, and there was $50 worth of clay in the tub that I didn’t want to go to waste. So I locked her out and decided to try to make the best of it. This backfired because soon she was pounding on the door like she was jealous that I was in there pleasuring myself. I washed off, washed everything down the drain, and opened the door, but it was too late. She was angry and wouldn’t say anything the rest of the day. Neither of us has spoken of it since.
I still have my fantasies, but now I feel I have to hide them. I have magazines and videos that I masturbate to, but it goes no further than that. So my questions are:
1. Am I some kind of a freak or weirdo?
2. Have you ever heard of this fetish before?
3. If so, why doesn’t anyone else ever write to you about similar fetishes?
4. Will I ever be able to show this side of me to my wife, or should I just hide it from her forever?
Mis-Understood Dude
Let me get this straight: Three years ago you shared your fetish and fantasies with the woman you married two years ago, and your then non-wife assured you that she wanted to help you fulfill all of your fantasies—but she completely flipped out when you filled the tub with clay. And 12 months later, you married her anyway?
I’m not endorsing the way you sprang a tub full of clay on your future wife—maybe she reacted badly because the bathroom was an unholy mess? Maybe you should’ve stopped everything and talked things through when she acted uncomfortable? Maybe the sight of you half-covered in mud and fully aroused was too much, too soon?—but why on earth didn’t you get to the bottom of this before you married this woman?
Sounds to me like you really spooked the wife-to-be, MUD, both with that “Hey, here’s a tub full of clay!” move and then, when she balked, by going right ahead with one of your solo mud-and-sex sessions instead of putting your orgasm on hold to, gee, go and inquire after the future wife’s feelings about what just went down. At that moment, she may have concluded that given a choice between her and a tub full of clay, you would choose a tub full of clay—because that’s just what you did… and yet she married you anyway.
People are fucking mysteries, man.
And in answer to your questions…
1. Yes, but your kinky weirdo freakiness is charming and harmless and not anything that you need to feel ashamed of, MUD.
2. Yes, yours is a relatively common fetish, MUD, one that exists on a continuum. Wet-and-messy play can involve substances that are harmless and represent a low barrier to entry for the loving, GGG, nonfetishist partner—mud, food, condiments, etc.—or substances that are not at all harmless and represent an impossibly high barrier to entry, e.g., shit, vomit, snot. Your kink could be much, much more problematic.
3. Other people have. Yours isn’t the first letter I’ve run from/about a weirdo freak like you.
4. You already showed this side of yourself to the wife. She knows, you know she knows, but you’re both pretending not to know what you damn well do know. To avoid becoming completely sexually estranged, TALK TO YOUR WIFE. Ask her what went wrong—how did she go from “never be ashamed… glad to help [you fulfill your fantasies]” to freaking out and pounding on doors and ignoring the mud-caked elephant in the room for more than three years?
Ask her to open up—beg her to open up—and apologize to her out of the gate for botching it, for rushing her, for being so insensitive as to prioritize the clay over her feelings after she freaked. And then tell her you want to be able to work on building a healthy, honest, and mutually satisfying sexual relationship, one that meets your needs and hers, but to do that you’re going to have to start communicating with each other again.
I have a 15-year-old daughter. I am bisexual and work in marketing for the adult industry;
both are things I explained to her when I thought she was old enough to form an understanding of what they meant.
Recently, I returned from an adult-industry convention, where I often pick up new toys. One of my gift bags contained a petite sparkly purple vibrator, and I thought, well it’s not my style but maybe I should give it to my daughter along with a lecture on masturbation being a great alternative to sex. Even though I am an open-minded and cool mom, this thought still made me uncomfortable, and I relegated the new toy to my nightstand full of gifted-from-vendors toys that aren’t my style.
I figured that no teenager wants to be given a masturbatory device by a parent. Was I wrong?
Teenage Masturbation Icky
No, TMI, you were right: No teenager wants to be given a masturbatory device by her parent. But that doesn’t mean a teenager—even your teenager—wouldn’t be delighted to have a masturbatory device. A moment of awkwardness and a little feigned teenage discomfort/disgust—perhaps even a show of discarding the device where it could be easily retrieved after Mom apologizes and retreats—is a price that most teenage girls would be willing to pay to have a brand-new sparkly purple vibrator of her very own. (Oh, and I’m thinking she knows about your drawer full of misfit sex toys. Maybe you could just tell her that anything in there that’s still in its original packaging is up for grabs.)
Some gay friends said that girls don’t ever think a penis is cute. I started asking all the chicks I know if they think cocks can be cute. Not one said yes. Gay guys think cocks are cute.
Curious Of Cock Knowledge
No man’s cock is cute—well, no man’s besides the man who got a Hello Kitty tattoo on the head. A cock can be hot, it can be beautiful, it can be vaguely threatening. But unless there’s something very, very wrong, no man’s cock is cute and no man wants to be told that his cock is cute.
My cock is cute.
I read the first letter in that MUD told future wife of his fetish three years ago, she was GGG, they married two years ago, but he just now is actually approaching it with her. Well, not with her.
His big fail was not prepping her at all that “today was the day”, not that he married her.
Unless it’s as Dan read it, in which case, I’ll STFU and he never should have married her.
I feel bad for the mud guy. That really does seem like about as low entry as it gets. Also, you’re already in the tub so cleaning up would be a breeze.
Yep, ‘cute’ is not a word that should precede (or follow for that matter) ‘cock.’
The mud guy should just find one of the millions of girls who dig mud wrestling and take her out on a date. HELLO?
@2 I read it the same way.
And what about Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore in Ghost?
@7. Joe Newton was also thinking about that scene. Or rather, the naughty and interspecies(?) version of it.
21 now, but if my mom had presented me with a vibe at 15 I would have been mortified–but secretly curious and appreciative. Just do it quickly and casually–almost like you’ll toss it, but you think she’s mature enough now to consider this as a safe option for herself. Or even put it on her bed with a note.
My boyfriend and I joke about how there are a number of things you should never call a man’s cock, and “cute” is definitely one of them. It just has the implication of, “Awww, look at the cute little cock. Isn’t it just the most precious little thing ever?”. Not sexy.
The clay guy really screwed up how to approach the problem of dealing fetishes with your partner. I have some as well, I certainly know what it is like. You cannot just walk in and say “Today we are going to do all the things I like” if they do not share them. Talk to her first, let her know what you like, find out what she is comfortable with and maybe slowly get into it. Buying $50 worth of clay and springing it upon her is not going to go over well. Sitting in the tub playing with yourself when she is not happy is also a bonehead move.
I’m not sure I get the problem with clay – skin treatment and sex at the same time! Maybe MUD could sell it to his wife that way.
Wow I am the 14th commentator. Either the column was not as worthy of comment as Dan’s usual work or I got the kind of head start a sperm in a sloppy seconds contest is always looking for (yummy sperm competition).
A very sensitive bit of advice for MUD although I would have been a lot harder on him. I thought Dan was going to nail him but he let him off light. MUD is an incredible putz. The big fear in fetishes is that the fetish guy cares more about the fetish than he cares about the woman. Way to allay that fear MUD monkey. Gee my future wife is all upset about this whole scene I created so why don’t I just lock her out and jack off. LMFAO.
TMI- great name baby! Maybe you can put it in her Christmas stocking as a gift from Santa- because she has been good. If she wants to discuss it with you the door is obviously open.
And Dan nailed COCK just as we knew he would. Although I thought Larry Craig was barred from posting here.
Yeah, MUD’s not fucked up, he just fucked up the approach. Seriously, if I came home and my hubby had filled the bathtub with clay/bought a bunch of nontoxic paints and a big sheet of canvas/wanted to make a plaster cast of my boobs/whatever? That’d be awesome. That said, his reaction when she freaked? Not so awesome. His biggest problem is his social skills.
@2
That is interesting. I had read it how Dan had, but your reading might make more sense. But, unless she had at some point in the meantime said “by the way, that whole ‘don’t be ashamed, I’ll act out your fantasies with you” stuff was just a joke, it doesn’t change how I feel about this issue.
@12
Strategically, I agree with you. Morally, I’m a bit more torn. Yes, if he had wanted her to understand, approve of, and help him engage in his fetish he should have moved more slowly. At the same time, if someone says “don’t be ashamed of your fetishes, I’ll help you act them out”, I would generally take him or her at his or her word. If she wasn’t going to be comfortable with whatever he could throw at her (and he didn’t throw much), she shouldn’t have said what she said.
And then, when *she* had rejected *him* and left him forlorn and feeling both freakish and unloved, he decided to bring himself the pleasure she had promised to give him, but refused to. She didn’t have the right to be hurt at that point.
@2
I think Dan’s interpretation makes sense. If his then girlfriend said that she was game to try the mud, why would he then wait three years to actually try it out? The story doesn’t make sense with a three year gap between the discussion and actually trying the mud.
MUD definitely had an awkward first time of it.
Maybe, if he’s lucky, she will have forgotten the incident enough that he can give her a “spa pampering night”. Sea-salt scrubs plus a full body kaolin mask (it’s the clay they use, but if he uses a fancy word, she may not get the heebie-jeebies about it), followed by a rinse, and a massage.
If he makes the night about her and is lucky, they can make hot, sweet love AFTER the clay is off. If not, well, then she drifts off to sleep and he goes to fap in the bathroom. He would still be one step closer to his fantasy.
I have to wonder if seeing her husband in the tub covered with clay looked a bit too much like goatse for her comfort and her libido screamed and fled. If that was it, then a different color of clay might solve the problem.
Also, the approach could be better than: “Here’s some clay – make with the kinky sex now.” And maybe it was and he just simplified for the letter’s sake, but being told it’s time to perform is a completely different kink.
Anyway, he should talk to her, and next time, don’t spring it on her, and maybe start with something less than an entire bathtub, like maybe a few pots of fingerpaints.
I don’t blame the wife for freaking out at all. Sure, she knew this fantasy existed, but instead of talking about it and easing into it, he went full blown into this fantasy. Surprise honey! Come and get me in the tub full of mud.
I’d have TONS of questions if that was my mate, even if I was GGG for Mud play like,
What the heck kind of clay is that? Is it even safe to have in our bodies? Is it going to ruin my tub?
What exactly do you want me to do in this tub? Just have sex with mud on us? Does the kink go further than that?
And then for him to just shrug his shoulders and start jerking off in the tub. Weird. Just weird. This guy sounds like HE’S the insensitive one and not the other way around.
I just want to say that you shouldn’t wash that much clay down the drain. Unless you want plumbing issues on top of the marital issues.
Seldon @16 – “She didn’t have the right to be hurt at that point.” Hey, feelings are feelings. They don’t wait around to find out who’s in the right. She freaked out, he freaked out, they had a bad night of it. One of them should have brought it up again afterwards, in the calm light of day, to say “Honey, I’m sorry I overreacted; I didn’t know that’s what you had in mind.” Or “Honey, I’m sorry I locked you out; I was just so hurt by your reaction.” Then they could work through it… But years of stewing in silence can’t have been good for their relationship & trust. Might as well try to air the issues now, as Dan suggests.
Just fyi, LW#1 should invest in a clay trap (ask a ceramicist) to prevent too much clay from going down the drain and getting stuck there. Clay in the bathtub pipes WILL back up and become a huge, messy, gross problem –fast.
Also, why didn’t he just start off slow with $5 worth of clay in a big tupperware in a nonsexual (but maybe sensual) context with his wife? Overeager much? I mean, if it could be sexy in Ghost, it can be sexy for him.
I bet his wife was thinking she’d get to be Demi Moore and freaked out when he turned out to be Jim from American Pie (with a really big pie made of mud) instead.
(That said, my actual belief is that MUD has never raised the issue with his wife. This story is how he fears it will go, which is why he has never told her about it.)
I have a friend with a wet-and-messy fetish, although his is specific to “girls stuck in quicksand”. Oddest fetish I’d ever heard of. But yeah, this sort of thing should be introduced in stages, not full-blown wallowing in mud like dirty little piggies. Of *course* she freaked!
Genitalia in general are not cute.
The mud thing was a little over the top. The first thing he should have done was asked her if she would be okay with trying it out BEFORE he bought $50 worth of mud and clay! I mean, this isn’t exactly flowers and chocolates. Just like sex toys or a new fetish, these things need to be discussed! You don’t just go on http://www.lelo.com, get your man a love ring and slap it on him!
The mud thing was a little over the top. The first thing he should have done was asked her if she would be okay with trying it out BEFORE he bought $50 worth of mud and clay! I mean, this isn’t exactly flowers and chocolates. Just like sex toys or a new fetish, these things need to be discussed! You don’t just go on http://www.lelo.com, get your man a love ring and slap it on him!
As a girl, if someone ever addressed my genitalia as “cute” I don’t think I’d take it well. I also cannot fathom calling a guy’s cock “cute”. Unless I was really annoyed and was aiming it as an insult.
#2 – I read the letter that way the first time, then I re-read it, and it doesn’t make sense to have waited that long to bring it up. Rather I think he’s waited that long to ask anyone about the muddy elephant everyone is pretending they don’t know about.
Heh, my daughters received a vibrator of their very own as a 15th birthday present, done quietly away from the family. They both bitched complained and whined, and acted like it was horrible that this was presented to them. But neither one of them threw them away 🙂
I remember seeing a video with Dan’s advice on sharing one’s kinks- “You have to talk about your kinks like it’s Christmas morning and these are YOUR PRESENTS.”
If only MUD had seen that one…
On a practical note…women can get infections from exposure to substances that are not specifically designed for “internal” use.
#16,
One reason I am not really torn is that I do not really believe the writer’s characterization of his wife’s statement about how willing she was. “She assured me that I should never be ashamed of any of my fantasies and that she would be glad to help me fulfill them”
I have never met anyone who has made such a large promise. People might say they want to be open about their fetishes and fantasies, they will try to help, but I think very few people would just say they are glad to help do anything. If she did say it this way I think someone should still have the brains to realize that few people want to be thrown into a fetish without talking about it…unless that is what gets them off.
@26: pussies are definitely cute. Cocks too, actually.
cute cock = micro penis ^_^
On the subject of cocks being called cute, one of my male friends told me he’s turned off by a woman calling HIM cute in general because he finds it emasculating. He’d rather be called sexy or hot or handsome. Another male friend admitted that, while he feigns offense at being called cute in order to look macho, he’s secretly delighted by it.
Guys are weird.
I think cocks are cute. Not in a bunny kind of way, but in a “ohmigawd you’re showing my your extremely vulnerable external genitalia! ♥” Okay maybe that’s a little bunny.
But they are also sexy-cute, as in, attractive. Cute is better than ugly, and too many cocks are called “ugly”, imho. Pretty penises, everywhere. Deal with it.
One solution to the purple sparkling vibrator giveaway problem could be this: Mom could put several of the “not-really-my-style” toys in a box and when she leaves the house for work or whatever, tell her daughter: “Honey, I’m getting rid of some of the old junk I never wanted or used anyway. Could you please throw it out for me? It’s in that paper box over there, I forgot to take it out and I’ve got to run now.”
Now the daughter, if she’s at least a bit smart and interested, can have her own unashamed pick. Plus, you’ll be getting rid of that old junk you are not using anyway.
Dan, you are a god damn gem for straight dudes.
“apologize to her out of the gate for botching it, for rushing her, for being so insensitive as to prioritize the clay over her feelings after she freaked.”
TAKE NOTE STRAIGHT DUDES
Jeezus.
Sounds like Mud Guy was too obsessed and horny about his turnon to be at all considerate to his partner. WTF? Why would you marry them?
And seriously, $50 worth of clay? I know how much clay costs, so HOW MUCH clay was that??
(PS. You can just wrap it up and store it in a cool place).
GGG goes both ways, and being there and considerate for your partner when they are uncomfortable or *freaking out* is absolutely necessary for it.
Seriously, he couldn’t have just started with giving her a mud mask massage? Making out in a sandpit?
*headdesk*
The mud fetish is no big deal in my opinion. I think it’s kind of hot, and fairly understandable. Everyone knows about mud wrestling and the movie Ghost, so there’s plenty of precedent and context for this kind of thing.
If MUD had better social skills, he’d have had messy, slimy sex with dozens of women by this point in his life. Sometimes when you make a really big deal out of something, it becomes an insurmountable obstacle, even when it’s really not anything important or unusual.
OH MY GOD Dan the advice you gave on the podcast this week to the woman whose boyfriend was hung up on her sexual past was perfect!
@41: Framing counts, you are so right. If you come off as creepy, even about something mild, it becomes creepy. Sounds to me like the fetish isn’t the issue for the letter writer, it’s the ability to communicate about it in a positive, sexy way. The wife might be reacting badly too for her own reasons.
On the plus side. communication issues are more changeable then fetishes.
TMI could get another adult female to give the toy to her daughter… like an “aunt” figure. That is generally a bit less squeamish for girls than having the gift come directly from their mother. Though I like the idea of the “open misfit drawer” too. I think it is so valuable for young girls to be taught masturbation can be a positive and fulfilling experience.
It seems that #16 and I are in the minority in having sympathy for Mud man. Did he screw up? Sure, but not in the way everyone is dogpiling him. His mistake was like 23 said, in terms of the pipes and clay clogs. People are gasping at “50 bucks!” “For clay!?!” We’ve all blown the odd 50 here or there for something that makes us happy, so making an issue of that is nonsense.
People are yelling at the guy for sharing the fetish–something the partner knew about and agreed to be GGG about– and then not comforting her when she outright rejects him.
Like his leaping from the bath as a mud covered-mess and chasing her around the house to wrapping her in his comforting mud crusted arms wouldn’t make a bad situation worse?
He put himself out there, and she rejected him. Heartbroken, he took pleasure in the one thing that comforts him. I’m amazed that none of the other posters, have been so hurt that they took comfort in the pleasure of self love. You’re all very lucky.
I can’t say why MUD’s wife objected to his clay play, but I’m surprised you left out the obvious concern about reproductive health, Dan. If he wants to involve penetrating a woman’s vagina while covered in clay or mud, there is always the potential for BV, a UTI, or other vaginal irritation. Maybe he wasn’t thinking of that, but you probably should have.
Damnit Dan, where can I see a pic of that Hello Kitty cock tattoo? Or did you make it up?
Why not just put the sealed up new toy on the daugter’s bed without a note. Then she will not even mention it to mom and they both will know about it, but no awkward moment!
And how about a book on masterbation and how it’s ok, besides the seal up new toy.
“She assured me that I should never be ashamed of any of my fantasies and that she would be glad to help me fulfill them. But when I went and got some clay from the art store, showed it to her, and said that we were going to be having some fun, she acted uncomfortable. Once I got the bathtub full of the “mud,” got naked, and started to coax her into the room, she totally freaked out.”
Mmmm…yeah, I think Dan got it right on MUD…the wife definitely pulled a fast one on him (promising to be GGG then reneging) but the right response from him was not to go plow on ahead. He should have just stopped right then and there and called her out on her reneging. Of course, he should have tested her out BEFORE the wedding as well. It certainly would not be the first time “things have changed” after the wedding ring goes on the finger.
I am, however, suspicious EricaP is right, since “mortified and disappointed” generally are boner killers…rejection is not really the same thing as “forced humiliation” (which is a huge turn on for a lot of guys).