I came out as trans-something/genderqueer three years ago. I was born male but live my life predominantly as female. I’m 25 now. Coming out involved accepting that it would complicate my ever finding someone. I haven’t dated since.
My problem: Today, a guy my age asked me out while making me a sandwich in a cafe. He told me I was very pretty and asked if he could take me out. I gave him my number. Before I left, he said, “I’d really like a relationship with you.” That sounded like a weirdo red flag. I told him, “We’ll see,” but agreed to the date.
I don’t know the rules and I’m a panicked mess. I know to meet in a public place, in the afternoon, tell people about it—all the safety stuff—but I am afraid that he’s a creep. But no one has ever told me before that I’m pretty. While I’m not ugly, I’m not passable. My questions:
1. Was he way too creepy to go on that date?
2. Was agreeing to a date smart or dumb?
3. Am I acting out of desperation?
4. The great unanswerable: How do I get the giddy 13-year-old inside to grow up so the 25-year-old can navigate safely in the dating world?
Does Understand Men Basically
1. My inbox sags under the weight of e-mails from straight/straight-identified guys who are desperate to meet transwomen/trans-
somethings, and not all of them prefer passables. So it’s possible that this guy saw trans-
something, unpassable you and decided to go for it because you’re everything he’s ever wanted.
If he’s one of those guys who are into trans-
women and/or born-male-trans-genderqueers-who-live-as-female-but-aren’t-quite-passable, DUMB, it’s also possible that he’s never had a chance to meet someone like you before (you’re not thick on the ground), and nerves and/or inexperience caused him to fumble the pass. The only way to determine if nerves made him come across as creepy or if he’s genuinely creepy is to go on that date.
2. Smart. Even if it turns out that he’s a creep, even if you never see him again, being open to people and taking risks—while at the same time taking all reasonable safety precautions (particularly important for transwomen, who face a much higher risk of violence at the hands of the sometimes deeply conflicted, self-loathing straight guys who are attracted to/resent transwomen)—is the only way that anyone ever manages to find love.
3. Yes, DUMB, you are acting out of desperation—you and everybody else. Just don’t let your desperation—the worry that you won’t ever meet anyone else who’s interested in a girl like you—convince you to settle for a shitty and/or abusive relationship. If he comes across as nice at first but it turns out that he’s an asshole or a creep, and if he begins to treat you like you’re stuck with him because no one else will ever want you (not true—remember my inbox!), dump the motherfucker. It’s better to be alone than to be with an asshole who preys on your insecurities to keep you coming back for more abuse.
4. I have no idea. I’m almost 10 years older than you and I’m still battling my inner/giddy 13-year-old.
I’m a hetero male in my late 30s, and this incident took place over a decade ago, but I’ve felt guilty about it ever since. I was at a convention and ended up having a one-night stand with a lovely woman. When I moved to go down on her, something I enjoy doing, she had a really, really, really smelly area. This woman did not have bad body odor in general; she had good hygiene. I managed to shift gears and brought her off with touch, but she pleaded with me to go down on her and I didn’t. That made things awkward. I didn’t say anything about the smell to her because I know that many women are self-conscious about vaginal odor.
My sex etiquette question for you: If you’re with someone, and suddenly you discover that her private parts—or his—smell like something with a passed expiration date, what is the best way to handle it? Excuse yourself from bed and grab a washcloth for them? Grit your teeth and go down anyway, in an effort to be GGG, no matter how ill it might make you?
Vagina Odors Inform
Cautious Etiquette
I realize that women can be sensitive about any suggestion of unpleasant vaginal odor—we can blame those “feminine hygiene” commercials as well as all those inexperienced boyfriends who react negatively to a vagina’s natural, healthy odor because they didn’t get the “spice” part of the “sugar and spice” memo. But as a general rule: The people you invite to stick their nose in your crotch, twat, sack, crack, etc. are allowed to form opinions about how you smell down there and share them with you. While it’s unpleasant to be told your crotch stanks, it’s much more unpleasant to find your nose tucked in someone’s stanky crotch.
As this woman had good personal hygiene overall, VOICE, it’s unlikely that a washcloth would’ve solved the problem. She may have had bacterial vaginosis, the most common cause of rank vaginal odor, or an untreated case of chlamydia or gonorrhea. As hard as “Something’s not right down here” is to hear, particularly for some women, you didn’t do her any favors by not speaking up—sensitively and compassionately—because if she did have a medical issue, she needed to seek treatment.
I am an attractive, “normal” 24-year-old female who enjoys taking pictures of myself nude for my own personal use. I delete most pictures, but I keep some on my laptop for my viewing only. My snoop boyfriend found some pictures that were taken before we got together and blew up. He got in my face and called me a slut. He threatened my safety when I told him to leave. He demanded to know who took the pictures (cameras have timers!) and to whom I was sending them (myself!). I broke up with him, but then took him back. We have since talked about my “fetish”; he still does not like it and wants all the pictures erased. To be honest, these pictures are not all that important to me, but the way he reacted is. To me, he showed he does not trust me and never will.
Still Love Ur Thoughts
The pictures may not be important to you, SLUT, but your autonomy, your safety, and your right to take enjoyment in and from your own damn body should be. So you’re going to have to DTMFAST—dump the motherfucker a second time.
A boyfriend who’s uncomfortable with your fetish is one thing. A boyfriend who’s a threatening, insecure, controlling, irrational ASSHOLE about your fetish is another thing entirely. Someone invested in your sexual fulfillment, someone who loves and supports you, would not tell you to stop, or make accusations, or react like such a fucking baby. And someone who didn’t have sexist hang-ups wouldn’t make a distinction between the pictures you took after you met and the ones you had taken before you met. Beware of boys who freak out after stumbling onto what they believe to be evidence—even if they’re wrong—that their girlfriends have been with other guys before them. They have issues.
DTMFAST.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
@151 – thanks for the nice compliment, but I think it just shows that not all non-consensual sex belongs in one box. I mean, it was unpleasant enough to turn me off cunnilingus for ten years, but at the time I was mostly upset that my best friend (his girlfriend) blamed me for the incident. I’ve been (sorta) assaulted this year, too, in the sense of guys going for anal when I said they couldn’t. But an insult from a colleague stings a lot more… Life is pain, as Wesley says. When I get hurt, I tell myself that I choose to run certain risks to live the life I want. Mostly things go fine, and I’ve learned I can cope even when life throws me something awful. That sounds jinxy, whoops — knock on wood.
Why do you lie about your age, Dan when it’s public info? Pretty stupid of you.
I just looked it up: you were born Oct. 7, 1964 which makes you 46.
Why would you lie about your age, Dan when it’s public info? Makes you look stupid, not to mention like a man with little integrity. Ouch!
You owe your readers an apology, big time. Real men don’t lie, so grow some.
Real men figure out if they have already posted before they screw up and post almost the same words again.
Just an opinion, but my guess is that the sort of person who would get violent about finding out that their date is trans, is also the same sort of person who would feel severely set-up, if it took several dates and escalating emotions before the big reveal. In other words, waiting is likely to backfire when it’s one of these dangerous types, even if the talk happens well before the clothes come off.
I say reveal early and often. Even if you aren’t talking violence, if they are going to dump you when they find out, the sooner that happens the better, for all concerned. You will waste less time exploring potential relationships that are fundamentally doomed, and by the same token they are less likely to feel misled by you. Better to weed through the hopeless cases quickly. And hey, by revealing early you might even find someone who is actively looking for what you have to offer. (Which, to me, is what it sounds like sandwich-maker-guy meant, however awkwardly it came out. Best of luck there!)
I’m a thirty-year old straight guy, and I date other (mostly) straight women. In the past year, i’ve done a lot of dating. It made my heart feel sad that DUMB wanted to get rid of her giddy-inner-13-year-old. I wish I still felt that way about having a relationship! Hold on to it as long as you can!
Almost 10 years older…..yeah…me too, Dan.
@42
What a joke! If you think being trans has nothing to do with it then maybe you got a little confused on your “worldly journeys”.
As a trans person who is only attracted to trans people, I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE that it is extremely difficult to find one of the few people who falls into your field of love vision, and that’s before you even start the compatibility/are they into me game. Combine that with American views on transfolk(I challenge you to find one source of media in which we are not streetwalkers or comic relief), and the stigma around being trans becomes very obvious! Parents don’t teach their kids to date trans people like they do cisgender people, there’s no memo sent out on this stuff, so people will say weird things.
Honestly, you sound like you’re channeling a lot of angst towards men in general.
Sorry, I can’t say I’m much help for your questions, but considering you’re a Seattle icon, mentioning that you thought he may be a weirdo in your very popular forum, maybe extremely hurtful and damaging to the target who most likely read it. Your work here is overall great but even weirdos deserve empathy.
I actually love and are fascinated with weirdos.
I say reveal [being trans] early and often. Even if you aren’t talking violence, if they are going to dump you when they find out, the sooner that happens the better, for all concerned.
I see what you’re saying, avast2006, but again: for many trans people their status is a secret – and who wants a bunch of people you barely know being privy to your secrets?
Like, let’s say your penis got cut off in a freak accident and surgeons couldn’t save it (you are a dude, aren’t you? I think you’ve indicated this in other comments). When would you tell people? Would you ask someone out and tag the invite with “…by the way, I don’t have a penis. Just so you know.”
And then, let’s say the person you asked out was disgusted by the idea that your genitals didn’t match your gender presentation and turned you down…and then told all his or her friends “Yeah, see that guy? HE HAS NO DICK” and everyone gawked and snickered whenever they saw you.
Now, if you hadn’t disclosed your missing penis upfront (as it were :P), that person might have accepted your invitation and maybe you’d end up getting a bit serious and there’d be an awkward reveal later on. Or, maybe you’d end up having one date that was so boring you’d never want to see each other again, and you’d go your separate ways without this person having personal information to use against you.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with telling this stuff right away; it just seems like waiting would ultimately save a trans person a whole lot of problems. The “big reveal” will be awkward no matter when it’s done; if you wait a bit, a lot of dates won’t even end up working out and the reveal won’t need to be made at all. Or maybe I’m just near-impossible to get along with and everyone else on the planet has fallen into a lifelong relationship with the first or second person they ever dated. All I know is I’ve been on dozens of totally “meh” first dates and I’m glad I didn’t bring up a bunch of intimate shit to those people. 😛
And hey, by revealing early you might even find someone who is actively looking for what you have to offer.
It’s a complicated thing…on one hand, if you’re a chick with a penis and you want to be in a relationship, you do kind of have to find someone who’s okay with a chick who has a penis.
The thing is, for many (but not all; I don’t want to stereotype here) transwomen, their penis is the bane of their existence – the source of much emotional anguish and body dysmorphia and the thing keeping society from seeing them as “real” women. You can probably see why someone like this shouldn’t date someone who specifically wants a woman with a dick…they’re attracted to the thing she literally wants to cut off.
So it’s not always as simple as finding someone who “likes what you have to offer”…more like finding someone who accepts what you have to offer but would be fine if you ultimately got it surgically removed. 😛
re: 166 – unless someone is in the entertainment industry and has a huge budget to pay for the technology, their biological gender is NOT a secret. i spent a few years socializing in that community, and i think i saw one person who was passable.
anecdotally, it seemed to me (disclaimer!) that many transgendered seem offended when someone is attracted to the transgendered. sadly. because those would be the people who want to date them.
With regards to SLUT and the smelly vag…..I may be a prude but I can’t help but think why in the heck would want to going down on a girl the first night you met her? It was a one night stand…you knew nothing about her, where she has been, etc… I hope you at least had the common sense to use a condom.
BTW, in the future, use the finger test before heading south of the border. I guess you can also call this the scratch and sbiff test…but the put is to smell your fingers before you even think about heading south. By doing this you can manage her expectations, can’t blame a girl for thinking she is going to get some oral stimulation if you spend the time bringing your head down there 🙂
…i spent a few years socializing in [the trans] community, and i think i saw one person who was passable.
Funny, I hang out in those circles, too, and I know plenty of trans folk who could (and do) pass without question. Not to mention, neither of us have any idea how many trans people we see in the street every day who are passing perfectly…because, duh, if they pass then we don’t know they’re trans.
Not every male-bodied person who wants to transition is 6’3″ with linebacker shoulders, you know…and not every female-bodied person who wants to transition is tiny and elfin with an hourglass figure. There’s a lot of variance within what we think of as “male” and what we think of as “female” .
Hell, my boyfriend and I have gotten catcalled as “lesbians” when we’ve kissed or held hands on the street – and he wasn’t even crossdressed at the time.
p.s. Circe – I’m Canadian, and over here we don’t pay for medical care…which includes hormone therapy for trans people. Gender reassignment surgery didn’t used to be covered under our health care but this has recently changed.
So if you’re Canadian and transitioning, I don’t think there’s much “expensive technology” to pay for. Electrolysis can be done in a bunch of small, affordable batches. Binders cost maybe $30. Packers start at $20. The big stuff is covered. Perhaps this is why I’ve known a lot of fully passable trans folk and you haven’t.
@166: I can see my way clear to agreeing with that. If you are at the end of a first date and it’s pretty obvious that a second date isn’t in the cards, there is no point in revealing your status to someone that you are never going to see again.
That said, people will be justified in feeling that you’ve been leading them on if you go on several dates and let them start developing feelings for you before you tell them about your reassignment. If you don’t want to tell proactively, it is your responsibility to watch like a hawk for signs that being trans is a deal-breaker, and either talk or walk as soon as it’s clear that it’s an issue. Letting them continue to get in deeper without full disclosure is lying. It’s not fundamentally different than failing to disclose that you are married.
My concept of attractive is not mainstream. While it may be a flag for someone to tell you are beautiful when you are not mainstream beautiful, don’t rule out sincerity completely! My most favorite looking people in the whole world will not ever win a beauty contest.
I live in Canada and have a friend who wants GRS, but can’t afford it. Health care is not the same in every province.
Honestly? I’m going to probably have a lot of women disagree with me but I am just not into (receiving) oral. It’s like watching someone hammer a nail with a screwdriver when the hammer is RIGHT THERE.
mydriasis, I will agree with you on that any day of the week.
thanks, perversecowgirl, for pointing out a possible reason for our experiences not being identical (instead of just telling me i’m nuts :D)
my tg ex is, in fact 6’3″, though lithe and willowy with a pretty face. he’s beautiful, but not passable. he was shocked when he realized that i was attracted to him as he really was, and not because i percieved him as a woman. it is really difficult for people to reconcile how they feel about themselves and how others perceive them!
The “One-Minute Podcast” rocks! Just finished listening to it, and I heartily endorse your reviving the format again as soon and as often as is feasible.
“4. I have no idea. I’m almost 10 years older than you and I’m still battling my inner/giddy 13-year-old.”
This is 100% my issue now and that is not what I need to hear! <3 you though.
my tg ex is, in fact 6’3″, though lithe and willowy with a pretty face. he’s beautiful, but not passable. he was shocked when he realized that i was attracted to him as he really was, and not because i percieved him as a woman.
I am all about androgyny. Your ex sounds hot. 😀
175 and 176,
I’m not that into receiving oral either. I’ll do it for the sake of mixing things up and because my husband likes giving oral, but there’s a lot of other stuff I’d rather be doing. I guess for many women, oral is the only way they can have an orgasm. Not me.
While telling a chick she smells rank “down there” may be responsible thing to do, it’s certainly going to be the end of that sexual encounter. For a one night stand, it just isn’t going to happen. VOICE did what 99% of horny others would do in the same situation.
“Your ex sounds hot. 😀 “
totally! the sex was great. it was that pesky “living on the same planet” thing 😀
I really want to hear from DUMB, too.
It sounds pretty obvious that sandwich boy knows he’d asked out a T-girl, given that she said she really isn’t passable.
If that first phone call hasn’t happened yet she could break the ice on the phone. Ask “Have you dated anyone like me before?” and see what he says. If he says “Well, no, I’ve only really only met one or two, uh, ladies like yourself but I’m kind of shy and was kind of confused by my attraction at first…” you could gather he’s aware you’re trans: however if he says something clueless like “No, we’re really not supposed to ask out customers.” or “Yeah my last girlfriend was in college, too.” then you can decide from there.
Oh and regarding SLUT, its a generational thing- people who got the Internet in high school or younger just are “wired” differently… I married someone just on the other side of this fence and realized some key differences; we are more accepting of changing social plans last-minute thanks to texting, and are immersed in a culture where we take pictures of ourselves a lot, moreso if you’re hot. For you elders who think SLUT’s behavior is odd or suspect, imagine having grown up with a magic bottomless box of Poloroid film. Unsupervised.
And Dan was obviously just being cute about his “age.” Lighten up, everyone.
It amazes me how many people say they “ended up” having sex with someone. It reeks of distancing, of absolving themselves of responsibility, of making whatever happens not their “fault”. After all, it’s not like they seduced someone, came to some (at least implied) agreement that sex would be A Nice Thing to share, and deliberately removed their clothing and engaged in sex. They just “ended up” having sex, like those old comics in girlie magazines where someone trips and “ends up” in the middle of a sexual encounter.
There are myriad other ways this manifests, from the (US cultural, I can’t speak for other places) belief that sex is something that men “do” to their partners (i.e. “he fucked me”, not “we had sex”) to hearing “I slept with him but it’s not my fault, I was drunk” from the same person week after week after week.
I really wish our society would grow up past the 13-year-old stage when it comes to sex. I think communication is the most important part of ANY relationship, not just sexual ones. Nobody is doing anyone a favor, or, indeed, fooling anyone with these abstractions.
I’m a photographer, (gay cross-dressing…slightly tranny type) and i’ve taking hundreds of photos of myself. and Since i’m an expert at taking photos, I usually get the same reaction from guys i show them too…”whoa…WHO took those photos?” I DID!!!