I’m a 20-year-old straight male, but this isn’t really about me.
I was recently back home for a family event while my younger brother, age 14, was away on a mission trip with his church. My iPad died while I was home and my mother told me to look in the kitchen drawers for a charger. I couldn’t find one there, so she told me to check my brother’s bedside table. I opened the drawer and, with a little digging, found a charger.
I also found a few pictures of gay porn and a couple of pictures of male celebrities with their shirts off that had been clipped from magazines. It isn’t the gay porn I have a problem with—I fully support him coming into his sexuality, whatever it might be—but then I found a few things that were a bit more disturbing: a picture of our father in his swim trunks, and another one of a fully naked man with a cutout photo of my father’s face glued over the original model’s face. Needless to say, I was freaked out. I put everything back where I had found it, including the charger, and haven’t said anything to him about it. Now I’m in a tough spot. I know that telling my brother I found the pictures would mortify him, and I feel like telling my father would be a complete dick move.
Concerned And Scared
I can appreciate why those pictures squicked you out—a family member lusting after a family member? Ughers—but I don’t understand exactly what it is you’re afraid of, CAS. While your brother appears to have an inappropriate and—fingers crossed—fleeting sexual obsession with your father, can you picture a scenario in which your brother’s desires, however devoutly wished, could be consummated?
Unless something much, much squickier is going on back home, your brother isn’t a danger to your father, CAS, nor is your father a danger to your brother. The only danger I can see is in the false choice you’ve laid out in your letter. Saying something to your brother will only poison your relationship with him; saying something to your father will certainly kill his relationship with his son. And destroying either relationship over what is most likely a temporary bonerstorm-of-puberty-induced obsession—an obsession that will soon be a distant and unpleasant memory for your brother—seems a bit extreme.
If those pictures weren’t in a place where your parents might also find them, CAS, I would advise you to stuff this one way down the ol’ memory hole. But there they are, in a place where Mom and Dad—BUT ESPECIALLY DAD—might find ’em. So you’re going to memorize this and say it your brother ASAP: “Hey, kiddo, Mom told me to look in your nightstand drawer for an iPad power cord. I found one—along with what looked like gay porn. I didn’t peruse your porn collection too closely because I wanted to respect your privacy. But you need to get that stuff out of the house before Mom or Dad finds it. It’s cool with me if you’re gay, and I love you and it makes no difference—but leaving porn around is not how you want to come out to Mom and Dad, okay?”
Then tell him that grown-ups don’t keep porn in their bedside tables anymore: The internet is for porn, and he can access all the porn he likes safely and discreetly on his iPad.
I would like to know why my husband is divorcing me to marry an 87-year-old woman.
Extremely Humiliated
Only your husband knows the real reason, EH, but if I were to hazard a couple of guesses: Either this woman is extremely wealthy or your husband is a gerontophile. Sadly, neither makes this situation any less humiliating for you. But try to look at the bright side: No one who hears what your husband has done—and no one who knows you both personally—is going to think there’s something wrong with you.
I am a 43-year-old mother of three, married for almost 20 years. Three years and one child in, my husband confessed that he had a penchant for being a BDSM sub. My reaction was, “Okay, I’ll try it, but if you want to explore that with pro doms, be my guest.” Which he did.
Fast-forward a dozen years. I’m going bonkers because my husband is impotent. And don’t tell me ED can be fixed, because in our case it couldn’t. And don’t tell me there are alternatives (oral, manual, toys), because all of those are just not the same for me. My body needs a fully functioning and capable man. So my husband gives me his “blessing” to take a lover. I didn’t even have to ask! I just needed to be miserable and depressed for a dozen years!
Now I have two lovers. One lives far away, and I see him a few times a year; the other is local. The problem is that they are both married to spouses who don’t know. Like me, neither of my lovers is interested in divorce. That’s the good news. The bad news is that I’m not happy with the integrity of these situations. I know that what I am doing is considered despicable by many people, despite the fact that I’m probably a marriage-saving device for both of these women. (Their husbands are happier, I’m not trying to steal their husbands, and I’m not a financial burden on either of them.) I would love to find someone in an honest open relationship, but this has so far eluded me. So I guess my question is: How do I set up a situation with more integrity when the world isn’t really ready for people like me?
Normal Soccer Mom From Afar
The answer NSMFA seeks is obvious—there are hard-up single men out there, married men in honest open relationships, men in the organized swinging movement, and she should go fuck some of them—but I’m including NSMFA’s problem in the column for all the smug monogamists sending me angry letters in the wake of Mark Oppenheimer’s recent feature about monogamy and its discontents in the New York Times Magazine (“Married, with Infidelities,” June 30, 2011). While regular readers of Savage Love know where I stand on monogamy—with the realists, monogamous or not—not many readers of the New York Times knew where I stood.
Anyway, smugsters, here’s what I think is interesting about NSMFA’s letter: Everyone involved is perceived to be in a monogamous relationship, by their friends, family members, neighbors, bosses, coworkers, elected representatives, etc.; two of the women involved—the duped wives of the men that NSMFA is seeing on the side—may actually believe themselves to be in monogamous relationships. But not one of these three couples—not one of these six “traditionally married” straight people—is actually in a monogamous relationship.
Just something to keep in mind, monogamists, before you hit “send” on your e-mail to me about your beautiful, deep, and meaningful monogamous relationship, about how your parents never cheated on each other, about how none of your married friends would ever cheat on their spouses, and about how people like me have no idea what real love means because we’re not in monogamous relationships, etc., etc., etc.
Because you just never know, do you?
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
While I can understand why some people may not like regularly reading about a particular person’s life story on here, from reading a ways back, it seems that a lot of the regulars seem to have helped each other through things and are keeping each other updated on the changes to their situations.
@210 I don’t know that EricaP is “willing to do anything” or “desperate”. I think that when you know what you want, you’re willing to reevaluate what you thought were hard rules. I’ve had to do a lot of reevalution myself lately, and realized that things I thought I couldn’t deal with I could, because the thought of what would happen otherwise was the worse of the two.
Sidenote to EricaP: Thanks for the advice, things actually seem to have fixed themselves miraculously.
211: Totally irrelevant to the current discussion, but since you are into physical imperfections, care to share your own?
Are you fat? Do you have an atrophied penus?
@204 I got so sick of it, I’ve been gone for about a month. I thought 198 was a clear, polite, thoughtful post and her response to it was just dismissive.
@215: Thanks; I was trying to be clear, polite, respectful, and thoughtful. While I may not be one of her adorning fans, I have always been respectful and supportive of Erica, and though I’ve been getting weary of seeing her co-opt the comment thread time and again with her own marital problems, I would never have said anything to her were it not for her post @197, wherein she said, “@Fans & Haters, Sorry, I’m not taking this show to a blog or book. Posting here is therapy for me, and something I hope to outgrow.”
That’s what I decided to address–the fact that people are growing irritated, and she’s aware of the fact, but refuses to find a more appropriate outlet or forum and recognizes that she’s using this somewhat unwilling audience as a group therapy session. (In a sense, her actions are analogous to her husband’s when he told her that he had been having sex with other women and that he was going to continue to do so and her options were to accept it or leave.)
Her response to me was so bitchy and reeked of so much entitlement that it lost her whatever sympathy I’ve had up to this point. I would never express myself as he does, but I find myself in agreement with Hunter 78 now where EricaP is concerned.
Here’s the thing: we Slog readers aren’t wives who love our husbands so much that we’ll accept a bully’s unilateral terms as she has her husband’s. People are saying (you are one of them) that her dominance of this comment thread for her own purposes is driving them away. I would have thought that someone especially in her position would be particularly sensitive to this type of bullying.
@204, 205, 207, 210, 211, 212, 215: I’m here to say “opening up a monogamous marriage” is hard, and here’s the play-by-play to illustrate my point. There are plenty of people who are interested in my posts. Why does my presence makes Slog intolerable for you? Am I bringing up painful issues for you? Why don’t you just skip my posts and those about me? “Oh, it’s an Erica-related post, guess I won’t read it.” Why is that so hard?
@216 – I’m bullying you into reading my posts? The people telling me to shut up are not bullies? I’m the bully? Got it.
arrgh: should be “adoring fans” in the second sentence of the first paragraph.
@EricaP, A question is not the same as an allegation. I meant to ask a question, but I did in fact make an allegation. Either way, it was rude of me and frankly, it was none of my damn business. I’m sorry. My behavior was inappropriate and not usually like me, and I owe you that apology.
That being said, cut the BS @217 that I in any way shape or form have made it hard to open about your open marriage. I’ve made no judgments about your marriage or your sex life. What I’ve made judgments and arguments about is the nonstop discussion of and reports about your marriage and sex life, regardless if it has anything to do with the column. Look back at my comments; you’ll find no comments about your decision to open up your marriage, only your decision to endless bring it up. The only inappropriate comment I’ve made, I’ve apologized for. Because it was wrong, and I was wrong.
@204, 205, 207, 210, 211, 212, 215: I’m here to say “opening up a monogamous marriage” is hard, and here’s the play-by-play to illustrate my point. There are plenty of people who are interested in my posts. Why does my presence makes Slog intolerable for you? Am I bringing up painful issues for you? Why don’t you just skip my posts and those about me? “Oh, it’s an Erica-related post, guess I won’t read it.” Why is that so hard?
EricaP, I usually read Dan in print, not online. As a result, I’d never heard of you until this thread. I was sympathetic to you until your crack (pun intended) about how life ain’t fair on the Internet.
That goes for you too. There aren’t any uncomfortable issues coming from you. I figure you’re a laughable and kinda pathetic hosebag, but aren’t they all? I wish you’d post your picture. I want to see how much you weigh.
@Leeny, like I say I don’t have a clue about EricaP, but my instincts tell me that she is not a woman to be apologized to.
@182
YES. THIS.
Between work, school, studying, sleeping, eating, showering, grooming, cooking, grocery shopping and transit time I generally have… two or three social time blocks per week. Usually about two of those go to the s/o and the other one (if I have it) goes to seeing friends. Why would I want to put someone else in the picture? It would just mean less time with the guy I actually want to fuck.
@222, @223, Thanks, Jake, but this time, I call shithead on my own behavior. She deserves the apology I offered. However, I’m done with the discussion. As EricaP as already stated, she doesn’t care what anyone else feels or thinks, this is her therapy. I suspect she enjoys the continued argument about the subject. Less attention from hubby=more attention seeking elsewhere. Like a child, she doesn’t care if it’s positive or negative attention. So, I’m done. Done with the argument, and at least for awhile, done with the Savage Love column. I need a break.
@221/225 – sorry you feel driven off. Thanks for the (unnecessary) apology. I’ve no idea what you mean with this line @225: “cut the BS @217 that I in any way shape or form have made it hard to open about your open marriage. I’ve made no judgments about your marriage or your sex life.”
When did I ever say you did?
Oh! When I said “here’s the play-by-play,” you thought I meant, here, today, on Slog, we see the play-by-play of why it’s hard to open my marriage. So sorry for that miscommunication.
@217, I meant:
>> I’m here on Slog to say “opening up a monogamous marriage is hard, and here are the ongoing stories from my life to illustrate my point”>>
Does that make it more clear?
@217 “I’m here to say “opening up a monogamous marriage” is hard, and here’s the play-by-play to illustrate my point.”
What makes your situation hard isn’t common to open marriages. Your marriage was opened up in the worst possible way. Also, you shouldn’t be in a open marriage. It clearly causes you mass amounts of undue stress. And I say that making the assumption that you (please let it be true) are being hyperbolic when you write “panic attack”.
“There are plenty of people who are interested in my posts. “
Blog.
“Why does my presence makes Slog intolerable for you? Am I bringing up painful issues for you?”
Sort of.
I am in a monogamous relationship because I would fall apart in an open one. I’m too insecure and needy. I get that there totally are people who can do it, there are people happier in open relationships than who are in closed ones. I’m sort of in awe of people like that.
I’m not one of them. Neither are you. So, reading your posts is like watching somebody jam an ice pick into her eyeball while explaining that she’s ultimately her happiest overall as long as she keeps jamming this ice pick into her eyeball.
“Why don’t you just skip my posts and those about me? “Oh, it’s an Erica-related post, guess I won’t read it.” Why is that so hard?”
You obviously have a very high I.Q. and your strength is verbal. And I think this is your addiction, to post and intellectualize about the thing that is causing you pain. That’s how you ameliorate your distress, by getting in your head about it.
So you do it a great deal. You’ve come to rely on it, I think. The only time you are ever a shitty person is when somebody tries to tell you you post too much. You get defensive like an addict.
Think about that. Jake only knows you really from how you responded to that criticism. He seems to really dislike you. People normally like you a lot. What does that tell you? That’s how defensive you get about it.
So, I believe that, on some level, you understand how much you post and why that would make you hard to avoid. But, no, it’s not a case of saying, “Oh, it’s an Erica related post, I’ll skip it.” Often, it’s more of, “Oh, it’s not an Erica post, cool!” or “Wow, if I had gotten here in the first few hours, there was a whole non-Erica conversation that happened before Erica showed up,” and that quickly becomes, “Why do I even read these comment threads?”
@228
the joke is – you’d probably make a decent therapist. Erica would be better off if she had one, IMHO.
anyway I really enjoyed your post.
@228 my life has its ups and downs, but it’s not like jamming an ice pick in my eye. Junior high was like that, and childbirth. But thanks for the reminder to post more about the joys of my life! Sorry — I was just teasing. I’ll be good. No more well-meaning interventions, please!
Only non-well-meaning ones??
Just to be clear, my above comment was not meant to be snark. My personal penchant for therapy rivals that of Woody Allen.
EricaP, besides being fat and having a prolapsed uterus, do you have stretch marks around your mouth? Carpal tunnel in one or both of your hands from jacking off all those dudes? How’s your gag reflex? Just askin’ because we know that the Internet just ain’t fair.
@228: I’m too insecure and needy for monogamy.
You don’t have to be in awe of people who prefer or can handle non-monogamous relationships: we’re not necessarily any better or more stable than you.
That’s sort of like straight people being in awe of gay people. I mean, I don’t intuitively get how it’s possible to be turned on by a cock and not by a pussy. Or how it’s possible to be turned on by the same genitals you already have and not by different ones. But I know everyone’s wired differently.
@233, yes, and some people are bi. Similarly, I can go either way on the monogamous/non-monogamous scale. My sexuality is defined by my submission; control over my husband’s sexuality is the last thing I want.
I just don’t see why the SL community was happy to tell that poor woman it was her duty to sit on her dying husband’s face… and yet people think I’m abused because I’m trying to come to terms with my husband’s sexual needs. He’s sweet, funny, a good provider, a dominant who gets my need to serve, hot stuff in the sack. If he had become impotent, that wouldn’t be my first choice of lifestyle, but I’d deal with it. Instead he became eager to have sex with others. It’s not easy for me, but I’m dealing with it. I think those of you who think I should walk away from a great marriage just because it got harder this year don’t know much about me, and don’t know much about decades-long marriage.
@234: Plus he lets you get with more dominant guys than him when you need it, which is a big deal… kind of the female equivalent of a guy wanting to have sex with girls younger and skinnier than his SO.
To the guy w a possibly gay younger brother. First, Dan, once more, the wisdom was flowing. About the incestuous fantasies. Freud taught us to take this literally, and Jung taught us to look at it symbolically. This young guy’s fantasy may be about wanting to stay in childhood. Or it may be that he can’t think of any other way to be really close to his dad. Like a lot of other people, he may just tend to sexualize relationships.
Or, #236, maybe his dad is hot.
@234: I’ve been married longer than you, so cut the bull about not knowing about decades long marriage.
You have repeatedly stated that you are worried he will get more attached to his girlfriend, he will leave you, etc. You are insecure about his committment to you and apparently he is not doing his job in alleviating these fears. This is NOT part of the normal D/s relationship, this is him just being a sucky, self centered spouse. He is not being there for you in very very important ways. Great marriages don’t make a person worry about their spouse leaving. Sheesh
Erica, read Wednesday’s SLOTD. If you are GGG yet uncomfortable with your spouse fucking around, you should be able to put the cabosh on his fucking around.
What? He said he would fuck around anyway, with or without your permission? He’s a CPOS, NOT a great guy.
@235 outside the marriage I’m mostly getting dommed by a transwoman and her “pet”, actually.
@238 Read “Opening up” and tell me that people who open their marriages don’t experience jealousy and anxiety. My fears aren’t rational, they just are. And I’m working through them.
@239 – He’s not cheating since I know what he’s doing. He’s in charge of our relationship, which is how we like it. Not everything has to be comfortable and easy in order to be positive and good in the long run.
um, I am just a lurker but did none of you guys catch the missions trip comment? Regular families do not have brothers on long term missions trips. This family is very religious and I would bet a million dollars that being gay is just as twisted to this poor kid as incest fantasies. This sounds just like the target audience for the It Gets Better videos. This kid is dealing with some issues and his mother deliberately sent his accepting older brother to find his stash. As a mom, I know that last thing my son wants to deal with is that I know where his porn is (and yes I do). She is trying to get her kid some help so just telling the poor confused brother to hide his stash better is NOT the solution.
You will like this: http://mysexlifewithlola.wordpress.com/