Savage Love

1. First letter sounds like a fake. Second letter: I feel bad that they love each other, because his dependence and her independence do not and will not work for either of them.

2. I still don’t believe it. That it’s not piss. Just don’t. Even a “crack” team (haha) in Vienna doesn’t convince me. Why Vienna? No researchers anywhere else? I think it’s yet another Porn Myth that makes a bazillion dollars for a few sleazy dudes while simultaneously giving poor old regular women another hoop to jump through. It’s not enough to look like a porn star, even down to having plastic surgery on your hoohah, and having to fake an interest in other women when you don’t feel it. The world would be a happier place if guys didn’t learn about sex with women from porn.

3. My partner says my “squirt” (his term) doesn’t taste like pee. But he also swears he’s never drank pee, so how can he really say for sure?

4. Letter 1 got me thinking about a funny story about my first week at the patent office: We newbies were in a class where we were learning how to search our databases for things that were already patented. The instructor was demonstrating on the screen how to search for “oh, let’s say, ‘children’s toys, maybe a type of squirt gun.'” Not sure what search terms she typed in, but a few seconds later there were several squirting dildos displayed in full glory on the huge projector screen, with all the engineering labels and functional details (“rubber straps,” “lubricant supply chamber,” “useful for men or women” etc). The instructor was mortified and it took her an hilarious amount of time to get the pictures off the screen. Since patent examination is very specific as to subject (one person examines all the applications for buttons and snaps, for example) I thought it amazing that there is a patent examiner who looks at these pictures as a full-time job.

   That was a long story. Sorry.
   As a reward, peruse the drawings in this patent.

   NSFW:
   http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=0620… ://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r=2%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526co1=AND%2526d=PTXT%2526s1=(dildo.CLTX.%252Bor%252Bdildo.DCTX.)%2526s2=water%2526OS=ACLM/dildo%252BAND%252Bwater%2526RS=ACLM/dildo%252BAND%252Bwater

5. @4: squirting is very real, and no, it isn’t piss. Not every woman squirts- in fact, I’ve only been with two or three that did out of over 50- but I can tell you that it doesn’t smell like piss or taste like it (based on what I’ve heard about the taste of piss- haven’t tried it myself).

   Squirting wasn’t common in porn back when I was checking out porn, so don’t make assumptions about where we learn about sex, okay? Me, I learned it firsthand.

   Regarding monogamish: a great term if you’re willing to disclose such intimate facts, but for many of us that’s none of anyone else’s business, unless it’s someone that my wife and I want to fool around with. Even using such a term will result in far too many questions for my liking.

6. @4

   Um… I’m sorry what?
   I’ve been with enough guys and have never had anyone ask me to jump through the “hoop” of “squirting”.
   I don’t even think most guys are that interested in it, to be honest.

7. I think CCG shouldn’t stay with a clingy/needy guy – and “can’t sleep without me in his bed” is certainly over the line – but I think he’s perfectly entitled to object to her working as a stripper. Her dancing to sexually arouse customers in a strip club means that other people are, essentially, involved in the couple’s sex life and I find it perfectly reasonable that he doesn’t like that one bit, even if he was fine with her doing it before the relationship. I certainly wouldn’t (nor would my partner).
   This is an issue that people in a good relationship need to be able to negotiate and talk about. (Same would apply, e.g. for sperm or egg donations). Settling it by ultimatum is pointless. If you want to end the relationship, go ahead, but keeping an insecure guy, scared to lose his first partner, in a relationship with an ultimatum is a shitty move.

8. Wait, what? Your criticism is that the study was done in Vienna? Do you not think they have science in Europe? I’m more curious about the tiny sample size, it’s not totally convincing until they get some bigger numbers.

   Also, while there is porn for everything, I don’t think female ejaculation is a commonplace event. Last I heard it’s the Average Woman who should be worried about people thinking it’s piss, lest men be grossed out by women who can/do ejaculate and thereby have an excuse to deny them orgasm.

   While it is a risk that then there will be unnecessary pressure on men/women to cause/experience FE when there is no evidence to suggest that every woman can do it, that’s a completely separate issue from the ejaculate’s composition.

9. Wait, what? Your criticism is that the study was done in Vienna? Do you not think they have science in Europe? I’m more curious about the tiny sample size, it’s not totally convincing until they get some bigger numbers.

   Also, while there is porn for everything, I don’t think female ejaculation is a commonplace event. Last I heard it’s the Average Woman who should be worried about people thinking it’s piss, lest men be grossed out by women who can/do ejaculate and thereby have an excuse to deny them orgasm.

   While it is a risk that then there will be unnecessary pressure on men/women to cause/experience FE when there is no evidence to suggest that every woman can do it, that’s a completely separate issue from the ejaculate’s composition.

10. I’m a hetero-ish male in one of those “giant slut” relationships. I’ve never been with a squirter, have no particular interest in squirting, but I would absolutely purchase a squirt-facilitating strap on. I mean, come ON. I cannot believe that the dude posted that idea all over the Internets.

11. On thinking about the squirting dildo idea- for it to work there would have to be some force behind the squirt, and a tube fastened to her urethra that could be sealed to her. Then you’d have to figure out what makes women squirt, so you could reproduce it mechanically.

    A tube sealed to her urethra would not be comfortable at all- imagine shoving a tube into your dick and sealing it, then shooting a load into it. Don’t know about you, but that sounds like it would HURT.

    But more than that- the squirt is usually more like a good sized dribble than a forceful blast that shoots out. Not enough to force it into a guy.

    And as for making her squirt, that’s the hardest part. My wife does it when she gets the g-spot going, but also does it if she’s exceptionally turned on and I’m rubbing her clit fast and firmly. There really is no one way to trigger it, it just happens when she’s really in the zone and might be caused by a number of things.

    Sorry, not feasible. Cute idea though.

12. @4: Just because real female ejaculate isn’t piss, doesn’t mean that the same must follow for what’s portrayed as female ejaculate in porn. The fact that you just jacked off to some woman drenching her co-star with a blast from the fire hydrant and are understandably sceptical about the provenance of said blast does not in itself constitute a meaningful rebuttal. Every time this topic comes up, at least half a dozen armchair Randis with hand-cramps come out of the woodwork.

13. CCG some men just can’t handle a relationship with a sex worker. Although I guess stripping (if it is truly limited to just stripping)is on the periphery of the sex industry. I get the feeling that at some point she will want to open the relationship. If so, she should end it now since I doubt he could handle anytime soon, if ever.

14. I squirt occasionally, and it doesn’t smell like pee and my boyfriend has never commented on it smelling or tasting like pee. My sheets don’t smell like pee afterward. It’s really more like a woosh than a squirt with force behind it though, so I doubt the invention idea would work. It definitely exists though.

15. Clown College Graduate: Dan may give your boyfriend the benefit of the doubt (he’s nice that way), but I don’t see why your boyfriend deserves it. He’s a passive/aggressive jerk (P/AJ) who is putting his needs way above yours. Plus you and he just seem very poorly matched. Is this the kind of relationship you were shooting for?

    On the other hand, not wanting your girlfriend to strip (but JUST that issue) is not really that extraordinary, IF he were emotionally normal and not the P/AJ that he apparently is.

    Like @9 said.

16. 13 is right. It would have to be a little squirt gun, rather than something to actually funnel the female ejaculate into the guy. Hey, maybe the triggering mechanism could be up inside the woman. She orgasms: *squeeze- squeeze – squeeze* and it goes off: *sqirt – squirt – squirt*

17. A lifelike one of those would be useful for transmen. The opportunity to give their partners pearl necklaces. But how to simulate semen?

    I want money out of this 😀

18. I’m confused about female ejaculation. I THINK i’ve done it–but I’m not sure. How much of the stuff is normal? Because those sprays on porn don’t look real, and from my experience it wouldn’t be enough to rig up to a dildo

19. Big surprise that ginourmous link broke.

    NSFW!

    http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/620349…

    That research paper is very convincing. The source of the ejaculate is a large gland surrounding the urethra. And, also, the gland connects to the urethra by a small tube, just like in men. It may be de-evolved in some women, but in their two subjects it clearly was still functioning like a female prostate.

20. Tucatz/7: “…but I can tell you that it doesn’t smell like piss or taste like it”

    You’re 100% correct from my, *ahem*, experience.

    That’s all I’m saying about that.

    And yes, there are women who squirt, and women who puddle. Female ejaculation is all dependent on the level & type of arousal. I haven’t much to say to the doubters. It’s kinda like talking to people who “doubt” global climate change, or schizophrenics. Nothing you say will convince them away from their crazy.

21. I first encountered the concept of squirting from Tommy Lee’s biography, and it horrified me (I’m a woman, btw). A couple months later, I was in my second trimester of pregnancy, experiencing my first orgasms ever, and whoops I squirted. I about died from mortification, and I’m still not too pleased with my new skill, but the fact is: good orgasms make me ejaculate, and not ejaculating makes orgasms feel lacking. I’m lucky to have had one partner during that discovery and to this day, and I haven’t figure out how I would introduce it to a new one, but it’s my reality and it feels good. Lay down a towel and enjoy.

22. Okay, I went to the Michigan womyn’s music festival (awesome) and attended a seminar on female ejaculation (seriously). It was equally amazing to the anal sex demo (Tristan Taormino I love you.)

    Anyway.

    They took 3 or 4 random women volunteers from the group and an instructor got them all to ejaculate in front of the group.

    The moral of this story is oh my God lesbians are awesome. Also female ejaculation is real.

23. It’s not piss, you fucking morons who think it’s piss. Female ejaculate comes from the Skene’s glands through the urethra, not from the kidneys/bladder. Just like guys pee and jizz out the same hole, so do (some lucky) women. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skene%27s_g…

    “It has been demonstrated that a large amount of lubricating fluid (filtered blood plasma) can be secreted from this gland when stimulated from inside the vagina.”

    “The Skene’s glands are homologous with the prostate gland in males. The fluid that emerges during sex, female ejaculation, has a composition somewhat similar to the semen generated in males by the prostate gland, containing biochemical markers of sexual function.”

    “Because they are increasingly perceived as merely different versions of the same gland, some researchers are moving away from the name Skene’s gland and are referring to it instead as the female prostate.”

    As for why not every woman does it, “Skene’s glands have highly variable anatomy, and in some extreme cases they appear to be absent entirely. If Skene’s glands are the cause of female ejaculation and G-Spot-orgasms, this may explain the absence in many women.”

24. Out of a sample of about twenty, I’ve been only with one woman who really ejaculates — quite a lot actually — (though several did get wet puddles). She was actually very shy about that, and thought there was ‘something wrong’ with her (she had never heard about it happening to any other woman). I was thoroughly delighted, managed to change her mind about it, and we both learned to enjoy it. Sigh!…

    No, it didn’t taste at all like piss. On the other hand, it didn’t taste at all like male ejaculate either. It was much thinner than male ejaculate, and much more plentiful. Its smell was pungent, but only slightly (i.e., it felt like it was diluted in water). Since I’m not a chemist, that’s all I can say.

    Tastes vary, of course, and I know there are guys out there who would be horrified by female ejaculate. But frankly, I find it glorious — and remembering how ashamed that particular girlfriend was about her ‘squirt’, I think it’s important to tell women who squirt that there is nothing wrong about it. Just as there is nothing wrong about not squirting — hey, there’s more than one way to have fun. Way more.

    We should simply always take people as they come. Pun intended.

25. thank you for your comment No9 and ” it is this or the highway” is a casus belli for me and frankly i do not know who is more manipulative he or she. My own advice is that your part with the guy obviously you have different attitudes in life and some serious irreconcilable differences.

26. @13: The way your wife squirts isn’t the way every squirting woman squirts- hers might be more of a dribble, but mine is projectile with range up to 12 feet or so. The only problem is that I can’t aim it at all, but if he had some kind of funneling device, it could work, assuming his girlfriend squirts like me and not like your wife.

    Also, to people who think it’s piss, it’s totally not. It smells different and it’s not yellow. Mine is clear, and I’ve heard of other women having a kind of white color, but I’ve never heard of yellow female ejaculate.

    And to those people who don’t think the porn squirters are real, maybe some of them aren’t, but don’t think it isn’t possible, because I can do that. Scared the crap out of me the first time I masturbated because I had no idea if that was supposed to happen or not.

27. @4 I don’t think there’s any overwhelming demand for women to ejaculate. I first learned about the phenomenon from a sex advice column in a teen girl magazine; the letter-writer was worried that there was something wrong with her, like maybe she peed herself uncontrollably when she came. Orgasms are a pretty loaded (haha) subject, especially for us women — I’m sure almost all of us have felt pressured (socially or personally) at some point to come more, or less, or differently. Which sucks. Our pleasure is our damn business!

    Random aside, I’m disappointed to learn that Tristan Taormino presented at MichFest. Apparently sex-positive doesn’t necessarily equal trans-positive. 🙁

28. What on earth is a degree in circus arts?? That sounds awesome, and I wanted to hear way more about that and less about the problem!

29. @29: Is MichFest still transphobic? That’s sad. I doubt Taormino supported their transphobic policies just because she did a workshop there.

    @4: Nice trolling… well done.

30. Anent the squirting dildo — does the dildo really have to squirt her ejaculatory fluid? I mean, if the squirt is the whole point of the exercise, and if routing the squirtage through the end of the dildo would require painful (and probably unworkable) rigging, why not just design/use a dildo that squirts something else (water, saline solution, Grey Goose) when the female partner squeezes a bulb or something? No, it’s a step away from “real” ejaculate, but once you start talking about pegging and tubes inserted into the urethra I think it’s time to stop talking about authenticity, no?

31. Sandiai-6– No, that wasn’t too long a story. I loved it for the humor and for the perspective. Too often, I slog through comments without ever learning anything interesting. Then I happen on one that makes me think about something in a new way. No one who is drawn to this column is entirely new to the idea of sex toys. I never before considered the invention and patent aspect before. Thanks.

32. Forgawdsakes women are so uptight about sexual nonconformity. OMG, don’t talk about mythical female ejaculation or that will put more pressure on women to “perform” this new trick! (welcome to our world, ladies). Or, OMG I feel like such a freak, what will my boyfriend think?!
    Men are pigs when it comes to sex. If your man likes feet or eating pussy or rimming your ass or golden showers or just plain old getting sweaty together, he’s not likely to make a fuss over female ejaculation if you do it. And if there becomes a “performance” issue, the expectation to produce an ejaculation is most likely going to fall on him. Just freaking relax and enjoy the sex, with or without female ejaculate.

33. “So I’ve got a new word to describe relationships like yours, mine, and your mom’s, IIC: “monogamish.” We’re mostly monogamous, not swingers, not actively looking. Monogamish.” This perfectly sums up my partner and I. Excellent letter, excellent advice!

34. I was with the same woman for 20 years and she never ejaculated…you would say she is one of those women who just does not. I was only vaguely aware of the phenomenon and certainly didn’t work for or hope for it, nor did she. One day, in a threesome with me and a guy she found very attractive (and very large FWIW–okay, so we were “monogamish”) she clearly ejaculated. And then IN THE VERY SAME WEEK, I was with a different woman for only the second or third time, and she ejaculated as well (at least I know it wasn’t just me). Go figure

35. I just want to say that I’m happy to live in a world where advice columns start with: “You probably get this question every day. I’m a man who loves it when my girlfriend fucks me with a strap-on.”

    You’ve done a lot of good work, Dan.

36. All PTBMC needs to remember is that everyone has a different definition of monogamous. I know some couples (mostly gay males) who say things like “Yes, we’re monogamous; we have sex with other people, but we always come home to each other” which frankly I think is ridiculous nonsense, but hey, to each his bone.

37. I still don’t believe it. That it’s not piss. Just don’t. Even a “crack” team (haha) in Vienna doesn’t convince me. Why Vienna? No researchers anywhere else? I think it’s yet another Porn Myth that makes a bazillion dollars for a few sleazy dudes while simultaneously giving poor old regular women another hoop to jump through. It’s not enough to look like a porn star, even down to having plastic surgery on your hoohah, and having to fake an interest in other women when you don’t feel it. The world would be a happier place if guys didn’t learn about sex with women from porn.

    The world would be a better place if some women didn’t blame porn for their boyfriends being jackasses.

    A better option would be to stop having sex with jackasses.

38. best bunch of comments to a bunch of lame letters! my abs hurt @6,8,11,13,20,24,25,32-the lolz just don’t stop! whew

39. #2 Thanks for our weekly dose of SPAM.

40. OMFG, I am a patent agent. I will be happy to write that patent for you.

    The patent office is full of interesting and sometimes horrifying patents. Check out this dildo bong that uses a vagina as part of the water chamber to stimulate the one being penetrated with the bubbles.

    http://www.google.com/patents?id=Zhd7AAA…

41. Regarding female ejaculation:

    My gf from a decade ago had a hard time orgasming. In fact, she had only done it once in her life before we were together, and she didn’t for the first three years we were together. I found this really frustrating at first, she was more accepting. I certainly made an effort, many efforts, to get her off. But she disuaded me. So, for awhile, that was the way it was.

    To be honest, there were issues in our relationship, and she said partly she was holding back. But she was holding back in another way: she said she often felt close to coming, but held back because it felt like she had to pee.

    Eventually, she learned to let go. She became quite orgasmic. And usually when she came, she gushed fluid and we got quite a wet spot in the bed. It was kind of funny.

    And no, it was not actually pee. Like a previous commenter said, it was dilute and watery, but slightly pungent. It was clearly bodily fluid, but a fairly innocuous one. It was not smelly like her pee, which was normal pee-smelly. I know because she was a California hippie and abided by the “when it’s yellow let it mellow, when it’s brown, flush it down” rule.

42. I’d really like to take the side of CCG on this one (the BF certainly does sound like a clingy, controlling baby), but . . . anyone who chose to go to college to study to be a clown is automatically downgraded in any dispute. So, unless she writes in to say that said BF may actually be a serial killer or a conservative christian, I’d have to go against her.

    Because she’s a fucking clown.

43. @45

    Way, way, way too much info, bro.

44. I’m not a big fan of “monogamish.” I’m polyamorous, and I want to make polyamory and other types of whole-hearted non-monogamy more socially acceptable. When I hear about people who are monogamish, I feel like the hegemony of monogamy is actually getting additional ammunition. If I were practical and empathetic, I’d understand that other people were different from me, and the more we can fill out the spectrum of sexual and relationship interests and desires, the better. But, as a married polyamorous person living in a monogamous society, the idea of monogamish annoys me. Call me narrow minded and selfish if you’d like (because I am), but that’s my reaction.

45. Re IIC – I know she wasn’t asking for advice about her difficulties with “sex and arousal,” but I was struck by the phrase: “when the sex works, it’s amazing.” Should she and her husband be looking into hormonal questions, or other issues which might be interfering with their (sometimes) amazing sex? It’s just sad to hear about someone who is one year into a marriage and accepts that “sex and arousal can be difficult for me.”

    @9, 27 People who threaten to leave unless their partner changes in some way – that’s an ultimatum. People who make their own decisions in life (“I took control of my own sexuality via stripping”), and accept that their partner may end up leaving them -– they are not issuing ultimatums. Some things in a relationship (ie pregnancy) have to be decided by consensus, but a person’s career and sexuality doesn’t have to be decided that way. I think she should be herself, and if he needs to be with someone who is more conventional, let him make that decision.

46. As a 27 y/o lesbian I can attest that squirting is a legitimate phenomenon, if one that not every woman can achieve (like myself). I’ve been with 2 squirters, and rest assured, it did not taste like pee, nor did it expel itself like pee. There was A LOT of it, and I mean A LOT. Like, dripping down my face and arms a lot, for over a minute. The first time it happened I was more than a little confused and intrigued, but as time went on I found it a satisfying confirmation of my ability to please these women. To dispel any more myths, squirters don’t always squirt every time, in fact when I was with these women the times when they ejaculated were rare and memorable.

    Perhaps squirting is one of those genetic predispositions, like being able to fold your tongue into 3 folds, or having connected earlobes. I dunno, but it happens, and it can be sexy when it does. 🙂

47. @44 and 45. Looks like Michelle Bachman is super mad someone found out her husband is gay. Simmer down, Mich, it’s God’s will.

48. oops, I meant @43 and 44.
    45 you’re fine, or, well, fine-ish.

49. Dan, I love you, but I don’t think I like “monogamish.” It sounds wishy-washy, indecisive, uncommitted, and I am none of those things.

    I don’t know what the right word is — I don’t like anything that starts with “poly-” and sounds like it wants a cracker — but what the right word would express is “married/unworried.” I am not worried that sex outside my relationship will destroy it. I’m just not.

    Monogamous with benefits?

50. Mostly off topic but where oh where do I find a man that wants to be pegged?? Not one of my boyfriends would even come CLOSE to letting me near their cute asses….not even a finger!

    I have tried everything to get them to try it.

    It’s going from fantasy to obsession!!!!

51. I’m going to get crucified for this, but if a woman is starting off with a totally empty bladder, then the small amount of ejaculate that comes out is not pee. However, unlike men women don’t have that valve that shuts off the bladder when they orgasm, so if a woman ejaculates with a full bladder then absolutely most of the liquid that is coming out is pee (mixed with small amounts of girl ejaculate). The Skene’s glands aren’t the size of a grapefruit, people. When women shoot six feet, most of that fluid is pee.

52. @53 — Monogamy plus?

53. @54 getting pegged is something I’ve always wanted to try but couldn’t get my ladies to do it to me.

54. Monoga-wise?

55. The study Dan mentions sounded worse than a joke because of the tiny sample size, but apparently The Journal of Sexual Medicine is a reputable peer-reviewed journal published by a reputable firm and has a more than respectable impact factor. Of course, @4, this does not explain why they’d publish a study conducted by a lot of inbred Austrian mutants.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/1…

56. @57 That just upsets me! In 5 minutes someone said they always wanted it and years have gone by and i haven’t met a man that actually did 🙁

    Feelin’ sorry for myself now………lol

57. @1: What basis do you have for thinking it’s fake? *My* wife likes pegging me, and she squirts too. I would totally buy this toy if he made and sold them.

58. How can we get @54 and @57 together?

59. The lady who wants to find a man who wants to be pegged could try fetlife.com It’s a free website and has many kinky folks looking for play partners. As a free site, it also has a lot of phonies and flakes, so caution is in order..

60. re: CCG

    As a fairly emotionally needy dude who dated a lovely woman during period when she went from being a waitress, to being a waitress at a strip club, to actually stripping, I’d like to offer a line of argument to CCG.

    Basically, there was nothing sexier, more flattering, and ultimately more security-inducing than knowing that although she spent her evenings as the center of attention in a room full of men who would have given nearly anything to be with her, she still came back to me every night. She rejected them all–no matter how handsome, no matter how rich or professionally accomplished, and accepted me. With a regular girlfriend, the fear that she’ll meet and leave you for some guy who simply outclasses you always lurks in the back of the mind… but with her, she’d already seen them all and made her choice.

    Plus, not only did she come back to me, but she came back to me horny as hell. While it wasn’t exactly a perfect situation, and I from time-to-time pushed her to stop (not because I cared, but because it wasn’t really a good environment for her and her body image issues; on a couple occasions she came back in tears instead), I honestly remember it as six of the happiest months of my life.

61. The product that would come out of OMFG’s ass, if he can get his device to work, should be called BACHMANN.

62. Suprisingly, “Is that Shit Really Piss” is the title of Dr. Atkins new book.

63. Marrena @ 55, your comment is wrong in so many ways, and I was going to sit here and look up factual research points and then I decided that you weren’t worth it.

64. @54

    You might try introducing the boyfriend to prostrate massage. He can experiment with it himself, as the prostate can be reached with one finger on the forward wall just inside the anus. Massaging the prostrate while masturbating is amazing in my experience, increasing the feeling both in magnitude and in the different feeling it generates. I have never had a strap-on experience, but assume that it is the contact with the prostate that makes those men who enjoy being pegged, want it. There is literature available on the subject of prostate massage. Tantra talks about it and Tantrikas do it. Check out “Sexuality.org” which has a wealth of articles on everything you ever wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask.
    Keep in mind that a person has to want to do something before they will be willing to change their approach. That means “selling” them on why they should want to do it. Not why you want them to do it. Introduce him to some articles casually and let his curiosity emerge. The idea of a greatly enhanced orgasm can be a powerful motivator to overcome any problem developed in childhood about not touching the “dirty thing” and its attendant smell etc.

    Merlin

65. #39… I <3 you, you are awesome.

    I’m not an ejaculator, though I make puddles. I have a sensory disorder and the plus side is I am very, very sexually sensitive. I come a lot. I’ve come from having my elbows rubbed and no other contact.

    We are all a little different from everyone else. Female ejaculation is just one of those differences. It’s not a “trick” someone can learn – it’s like curling your tongue. You can, or you can’t, and neither is bad.

66. @65: i’m reposting your comment for a wider audience:

    “The product that would come out of OMFG’s ass, if he can get his device to work, should be called BACHMANN.” by BTO

67. This is just more proof that the people with the most exciting sex lives are the ones who rarely if ever talk about them. I’m suspicious of the Ross Douthat types who jaw on and on about how emotionally and physically satisfying monogamy is in their marriage and how enlightened their sex lives are. And Christianist types love talking about sex, just think of poor Gail Haggard bragging (pre-meth and hookers) about how awesome the sex was with Ted. Ew. All talk, no action.

    On the contrary, people who have tons of filthy, fulfilling orgasms don’t talk about it as much, as talking is way more boring than doing. The quietest, more boring married couple you know could likely be fisting everybody in the tri-state area, and playing scrabble and cooking stir-fry just to recover.

68. Hey, lay off Gayle Haggard! Bitch can’t help it if she’s a Closeted Gamma Wife (or, if you prefer, a Gamma Wife Wannabe).

69. My girlfriend ejaculates, and we just keep a pile of towels by the bed. No problem.

    The term “squirter” is kind of crude, but the only other term I’ve heard in regular use is “rainmaker,” which is kind of precious. Dan, you got any better words for women who ejaculate?

70. @71
    The implication being that filthy/fufilling orgasms happen in poly relationships (or monogamish) and monogamous couples just run their mouths and never fuck? Give me a fucking break.

    Someone in the previous thread summed up my feelings about monogamy perfectly: time is finite.

    For me personally?
    Hours in a week: 24 x 7 = 168
    less sleep = 112
    less work time = 88
    less time on campus = 64
    less laundry = 62
    less transit = 50
    less studying = 45
    less showers and grooming = 34
    less grocery shopping = 32
    less yoga = 31
    less cooking/eating time = 17
    less other appointments = 15

    okay so that’s 15 hours.

    A lot of that is unusable time (I usually don’t do much between 9pm when I get home from class and 11pm when I shower before bed) So generally that works out to about two or three chunks of social time per week depending on exams/midterms/work demands.

    Generally that means 1-3 times a week I see my man and 0-1 times a week I see friends. The only place I’d get time for someone else is by taking away time from someone I already see less than I’d like.

    Doesn’t make sense for me.

    But maybe y’all have more free time.

71. Regarding female squirt, puddles, flow-down-the-crack-of-her-ass-finger-lube, or (my favorite) slip-and-bust-your-butt-on-a-hardwood-floor cum: it doesn’t happen with everyone and, generally speaking, those who don’t have it or who haven’t experienced it don’t want to hear about those other girls you knew who do.

72. @74

    Time and emotional energy. That’s finite too.

    I actually have two girlfriends, and I find it really stressful, because dealing with people for me is quite hard work even when I like them, so as well as girlfriend-time and friend-time, there also has to be no-one-time, or nobody will want to spend time with me anyway because I’ll be a grumpy, volatile, socially-incompetent bitch.

    In terms of pure time I can handle multiple partners (mostly because I don’t sleep much or study enough…), but in terms of emotional energy two full-on girlfriends is really more than I’m totally comfortable with. If it was a situation of one girlfriend and casual sex on the side, though, I might be able to cope with that in terms of both time and energy. But what I actually have is the opposite (one of them is asexual, so I actually only have one person I have sex with) and it’s the level of emotional input that has to go into maintaining multiple relationships that I find difficult.

    (And then I consider the fact that I’m going to be sharing a house with both of them from next month, and I think I may have a nervous breakdown by Christmas…)

73. @55 does hit on a good point. I’m not a doubter, but where is this volume coming from? If the female prostate is analogous to the male prostate, (and the porn geysers aren’t completely a joke) it must be an order of magnitude larger … as in, not just 50% larger, or even twice as large, but 10 or more times larger. Or is it not stored? Somebody shed some light here.
    Oh, and never been with a squirter. Been with oozers,though, and assumed it was lubricant being squeezed out by orgasmic contractions. Maybe that was ejaculate?

74. and so the worm turns…

75. Hunter…

    my schedule isn’t meant to be noteworthy, it’s meant to be (somewhat) average (so as to illustrate my point).

    Without knowing my schedule, how could you know my arithmatic is poor? Unless you’re arguing that 24 x 7 isn’t 168. Sounds like classic trolling to me! 🙂

    Are you actually arguing that flirting takes a relationship from monogamous to “monogamish” or poly??

76. The Vienna study is not the only study out there on female ejaculation. Some were even done in the good ol’ US of A, as if that’s any real recommendation. Most studies are European, because they aren’t nearly as fucking uptight about sex as this country is. Research has to be funded, imagine how easy it must be to get money put in your hand after announcing “We’re going to diddle a bunch of women til they squirt”.

    We’ve had this arguement before, piss or not piss. Right now I love Dan for his extensive research and persuasive stance on the right side of this debate. And @24, I’m so jealous–I’ve been to Tristan’s lectures (she’s so damn cute!!) but in retail settings, so by law there couldn’t be any, ahem, hands on demonstrations.

    And one more testimonial–squirting is totally real. In fact, I squirted about 30 minutes ago….

77. 15 – What evidence do you have for that? Oh, honey, there are A LOT of women who don’t even think about sex when doing their JOB which might just happen to be stripping. I did that job for about 4 years and nope, I never felt some dreary urge to “open” the relationship. If you’re a guy, just remember that for MOST women it is just a job and that’s all it is. Sure, there are those “young-naive-woman-who-found-her-sexuality-when-she-stripped” types but they are definitely not common and they’re not the majority. So, you can remove that thought from the “fill-in-the-blank-with-assumptions” section of your brain. Stripper does not automatically equal woman who will end up wanting an open relationship. Say it to yourself now.

78. 4 – I do agree about young men needing to learn about sex from somewhere besides porn mainly because of the drift towards violence, rape and hatred of women that is becoming more and more commonplace but that is beside the point. The rest of your post is very telling. It really sounds like you need to work on your self esteem. You have mentioned all these ways that you are “just doing things you don’t want to do to please some man” when it is YOUR sex life. You need to learn how to enjoy it and then expect that feeling of satisfaction and, depending on the person, that feeling of connection. Do you really pretend to want to be with women just so you’re not left out? If you don’t like it, don’t do it. In fact, don’t do ANYTHING that you don’t like doing. Why? Because when you do things that really make you uncomfortable and you don’t enjoy it you are training your sex partner to have no concern about your part in the sex. The reality is, there ARE plenty of sex partners out there who will suit YOU – ok, that is if you just want to have sex. I know that is silly considering this thread but if you don’t have any hang ups or neurotic fetishes then you should have a lifetime of acceptable sex partners. For every man who expects piss, there will be hundreds who wouldn’t have a clue and if they met a woman who ejaculated would most likely be ok with it or at least willing to learn about that particular woman. Right now, you’re letting others and fear and paranoia dictate to you what you should think and feel and that is a monumental waste of time. Learn what makes you orgasm and learn what thoughts turn you on and what sort of partner does it for you and then start having those as your strongest thoughts instead of obsessing about what is happening in porn. Even if a man watched it from his teenage years and hadn’t slept with a woman until his ’30s, it would be doubtful that the ONE man you end up with in bed will be the one who insists on all sorts of unrealistic malarcky found in a porno. If you keep on obsessing about you WILL put pressure on yourself and you will also attract those sorts of people. Take over your sex life and start enjoying it and you may just meet some really great guys who want what you want! I really don’t get you women who have been brainwashed into believing your wants don’t matter. The first time a man gives off that whiff of “expecting” some tedious act he saw in porn? Kick him to the curb. There’ll be another one for sure. Don’t let someone else decide for you.

79. 28 – 12 whole feet, eh? You may want to buy a measuring tape.

80. 55 – Well said and something I learned back in medical school – that would be before Wikipedia, kids. I’ve been laughing at all the posts because you are right, it isn’t the size of a grapefruit. Your comment made me LOL.

81. Mydriasis: my last several partners asked me repeatedly if I squirt and got all mopey when I said that I don’t. I’m glad nobody’s given you that “hoop” to jump through but I promise you, it happens.

    Tangent to nobody in particular: my boyfriend and I are now officially monogamish! (I love that word…) The other day, with permission from my boyfriend (and after having discussed the general idea for months), I made out with another dude. I half-expected my bf to be upset after the fact (lots of things sound fine in theory but are less fine in practice) but nope, I came home from hanging out with this dude and said “Yeah, so ___ and I made out” and my bf was like, “Cool.”

    So I get to have the security of a long-term loving relationship and the thrill of first kisses! I feel like the luckiest girl in the world. 😀

82. @cowgirl

    Really? Shitty. Sorry to hear that. (re: the squirting, not the kisses)

    I don’t squirt either and I’m glad I don’t. Pointless mess in my books.

83. @74 wait, I’m not trying to be snarky or anything but I don’t understand your system. Are you subtracting each of those numbers from 168? Or are those monthly numbers?

84. @92: Each time allotment is being deducted from the previous total, and the number listed is the amount of time left. So after subtracting sleep, she’s left with 112 hours left, and after subtracting work, she’s left with 88 hours.

    And if I spent 12 hours a week in transit, 11 hours a week on washing and grooming, and 14 hours a week on cooking and eating, I think I’d go insane. Although time spent cooking and eating is also often social time as well. And of course I probably spend 60 hours a week on the computer so I shouldn’t be talking.

    Also, 2 hours a week on laundry? How is that possible? I think I spend about 10 minutes a week on laundry.

85. 84, I agree. It sounds like this guy is clingy and immature in other respects, which is probably what provoked Dan’s negative reaction. If the stripping job issue is considered by itself, though, the boyfriend has every right to be bothered by it. There are a lot of jobs I wouldn’t be comfortable with a partner doing, and most of them have nothing to do with sex–except insofar as screwing people unfairly out of their money might be involved! If those choices can matter to a relationship, then why shouldn’t taking a stripping job matter? I wouldn’t want to date a bounty hunter, chiropractor, bullrider, or derivatives trader either.

86. @94: I just have to ask: why those jobs?

87. @87– “Drift towards violence, rape, and hatred towards women that is becoming more commonplace.”

    Do you mean in porn or in the culture at large in its attitudes towards sex and sexuality in general?

    I wouldn’t know what the trends are in porn. From what I see of crime statistics on violence against women, from what I read in history as to what was considered violence against women, from what I note looking at the media, and talking to folks in general, violence, rape, and hatred towards women are on the decrease.

88. @4

    You know what, dude? I would have totally agreed with you until a few months ago.

    I’ve slept with more than my fair share of women. I would consider myself a man with more than average experience.

    A few months ago, during a drug-fuelled nonstop weekend sex marathon that involved a lot of fisting (first time with her) with a longtime lover, there was a lot of squirting. Actually “squirting” is a complete understatement. Gushing. Spraying. Flooding. over and over and over and over. The damned mattress was soaked and I, *I*, mr. openminded was pretty damned squicked, I have to ashamedly admit. I’m pushing 40 and I’ve never seen that shit before. We’re talking litres and litres of liquid over the weekend.

    Anyway. Trying to say, as have others in this thread, squirting does, in fact, exist.

    It’s not common, but it exists.

89. oh. sorry. I re-read comment 4 and realize it’s coming from a chick not a dude. sorry.

    Your comment makes even less sense now. Unless you’ve been with lots of women, how could you decide that it doesn’t exist based on what? the fact that you don’t squirt?

    dumb.

90. I have been in monogamish relationships and totally understand the dilemma. On the one hand, I didn’t want to help perpetuate the illusion that everyone is monogamous. But on the other, revealing the real deal is more info than is really appropriate for most.

    It’s (ironically!) almost easier to talk about it if you are completely poly, because there are words for it. But, there are often even fewer people that it is comfortable to talk about that with!

    I’ve gotten so tired of being in the closet as a poly person that I’ve started blogging, anonymously. If anyone wants to check it out, I’m at http://www.polygrrl.com. Would love to hear your comments.

91. 65 and 70 are my heros. And geniuses.

92. The female ejaculation is not a myth! It does however require rather more than wham/bam/thank you mam. I have been priviledge to experience the female ejaculation in more than 70% of the relationships that I have had. For some ladies it was immediate and continued throughout the relationship. For some of the others it did not happen until there was a deeper emotional tie between us. For the smaller portion of relationships that did not include female ejaculation I had a sense that some of the women were holding back because of inner taboos and or self-esteem issues that did not allow them to completely embrace their sexuality. When it did happen spontaneously I always encouraged it. There is/was never any pressure for them to “come”, but when it happens it is always pleasant for both of us. It is most assuredly not “pee”. Some ladies were very generous with the amount that would be discharged and some were not large at all, so I think is depends on many factors as to how much is present in any encounter. My previous Asian girlfriend would squirt literally quarts in a single extended sex session. We had to prepare carefully before hand to ensure that there was not a huge mess and that was part of the thrill too!

93. @20 The answer is it that it varies.

    I squirt. It releases like a dribble, it’s white to clear-ish, very much like the consistency of semen, and is sweet smelling and tasting. It’s really friggin’ obvious when it happens, not only because of the fluid release, but because the orgasm that accompanies it is orders of magnitude more intense than the routine variety.

    Not true for me, but I definitely know of women who do flood the place.

    As for porn, I’ve seen women who look like they have hoses of some sort, who “squirt” with no emotion whatsoever, and, yeah, I suspect that’s bullshit. But I’ve also seen porn where a woman’s trembling violently and cannot stand because she’s coming so hard as she’s squirting. Yep, honey, that’s the one!!

    And, ugh, I cannot believe that this message board still has people who insist it doesn’t exist.

94. @blackrose: thanks for clearing that up.

    A lot of those estimates are kind of overshoots. Like for example, if I have to work at 4, I leave home at 3:15. But I say “3” because it’s more straighforward and I generally need to get things together before I work (like pack up my work clothes) so I stop the other thing I’m doing a bit after 3. Then I generally spend about 30 mins actually on busses/streetcars/subway (including wait times) but I also can’t arrive right on the dot at 4, I get to work 15 minutes early so I can change etc. Saying 1 hr transit is easier than adding 15 minute chunks to “work” and “getting ready”.

    As for washing/grooming… eh, what can I say. I like long showers and I like to look a certain way. And again, that’s all rounded up. I was probably wrong about cooking at eating. But… I do love to eat. 2 hours on laundry as in 5 minutes to walk to the laundromat, 30 minutes washer, about an hour in the dryer and then some time for folding and walking back home. I don’t know if you have a magic machine that does that all in ten minutes but that’s rad. I bring a book.

    I can’t believe I just wrote that much about the mundane details of my life on the internet. Now I know what twitter must feel like.

95. @48 Monogamish describes something different then polyamorous, does it not? I thought the former was allowing some negotiations for outside sex on occasion, i.e. the focus is on sexual variety and experience. I thought the philosophy here was that the romantic link and commitment remains within the primary couple, with some agreed-upon outside sex not seen as inherently threatening to that bond.

    Polyamory, to my mind, is a deeper and wider pursuit for additional *relationships* where there’s mutual love and support among the people “networked” into them, whether a married couple with a third, two couples, etc. I thought the philosophy here was that the romantic link and commitment of the primary couple is extended to welcome an additional person or persons into that bond on equal emotional ground.

    Perhaps it would be less irksome if they’re not conflated?

96. I agree that monogamish-ness is vastly different in theory and practice from polyamory (I think # 105 put it well), but I also agree with #100 that if one is monogamish “revealing the real deal is more info than is really appropriate for most.”
    I don’t see that as a problem. Why must everybody and his uncle know the intimate details of your negotiated sex life? Does the entire PTA need to know that you and your spouse have an agreement that allows for some novelty or variety? How about your dentist?

    Unless you need to inform someone because you want to include him/her in your sexual activities, it seems as relevant as the fact that you like wearing nipple clamps in terms of the need for the general public to have access to the information. I know that there will be those who argue that strict monogamy is much rarer than is recognized and that if people were more open about their monogamish relationships, and they were more visible, people would feel better, blah blah blah.

    But I really don’t care about my neighbors’ sex lives and I don’t think they need to know the details of mine. I don’t consider it being closeted; I consider it having some measure of a *private* life.

    Of course, if I were in a long-term, ongoing poly relationship, particularly if we all cohabited, I’d feel differently; I’d want the public acknowledgment and acceptance of an important relationship. But that’s not what monogamishly is.

97. Oh yeah: I squirt. Not every time. Sometimes I puddle, sometimes I spurt, sometimes I shoot.
    Lots of factors come into play, including my level of arousal and the angle and depth of penetration (I need penetration to squirt) of a penis or fist.

    It’s not pee.

    It can make a mess–sometimes I really soak a mattress–sexy when it happens, but not so much when you want to sleep later.

    But it doesn’t feel like a clitoral orgasm at all, for me. It’s a totally separate phenomenon and sensation. It is dependent on internal stimulation and feels like I am dissolving–I frequently cry when I squirt.
    Weird, but I like it. And so have the partners who have experienced it with me.

98. I’ve been rolling mydriasis’s (#74) schedule around in my head. I agree that she doesn’t have much time for outside action but at the same time I’m wondering whether 1 to 3 times a week is sufficient for her man. If they are candidates for a less than exclusive relationship then it seems that he might be the one who needs a little on the side while she’s just dandy with the arrangement as it is. I suspect that that takes a lot of working through, however.

    When I was seeing 3 or 4 women at a time it was mainly because they were busy as tenure track professors, or lawyers, or with their own businesses, or working the night shift. Each one had a lot of demands on their time so I was lucky to see any one of them once or twice a week. Consequently, since I do like lots and lots of good sex, spending a little time with each one work well for me (and I’m not such a hypocrite that I can’t share as well). Otherwise we each had our own lives.

    The trouble is, I have found that even when people say they can share, they discover that they don’t necessarily mean it. Consequently, when my current GF, who does have lots of time for me, told me that I needed to “get rid of those other girls,” I did. That’s not to say that I don’t miss them, and if I get kicked out I may go back to the polyamorous system, but GGG monogamous when you’re getting a lot is pretty good too.

99. 95, I just picked the first four jobs that popped into my mind, that would likely require the person to do things I don’t believe are “ok”, leading to a long term conflict between me and the job. I’m still cool with telemarketer, car salesman, and lawyer, though. Undecided on politicians.

100. Folks, I don’t say this to rain on the parade of joy over litres and quarts of ejaculate flowing everywhere–by all means, keep enjoying yourself and your happy memories. However, for the sake of realism, please keep in mind that it takes about 1/2 cup of pee from a toddler’s bladder during the night to “soak a mattress” pretty effectively. What may look like a half-gallon of vomit, completely covering the bathroom floor in a projectile stream, is literally more like a cup or two. If you don’t believe me, go throw 1 cup of water on your kitchen floor and see how big a mess you can make. Or have your squirting female drink fluids all day, hold it as long as she can, and then pee in a cup.

     I have a hard time believing that women have vast reservoirs of fluid even larger than their bladders, just hanging around up there for the right stimulation. I suspect it’s more about the partner’s self-congratulation on achieving this effect, you know. Occam and all.

101. Regarding whether everyone and their brother needs to know the details of of your monogamish or polyamorous relationship with your lover(s), I can see where at first blush one might say no. On the other hand, for many of us, even when we live in a city, our social circles often intersect, or are even piled on top of each other. Consequently, if people assume that the relationship that they see you in, be it a formal marriage or a long term regular squeeze, meets the cultural stereotype of monogomy then evidence of a deviation from that preconception might lead to the assumption that you are cheating on your SO. Inasmuch as cheating is a form of dishonesty and (hopefully) people still recoil from dishonesty, not letting on to the nature of your relationship is can hurt your standing in your community.

     Oh yeah, and if you date within your community you may be losing out on some good opportunities with people who assume that you are monogamous and who might not want to be stepping on your SO’s action or exposing themselves to inconvienent drama. Our worlds are often a lot smaller than we think they are.

102. @108

     Thanks for your concern(?) but no, if anything he’s less troubled by it than I am. He’s 1. just as busy as I am and 2. very low maintenance.

     Let me be clear though; it’s not just pramatic time concerns that turn me off of polygamy. It doesn’t appeal to me in any faculty.

103. It is interesting to see everyone lay into CCG’s man. Is he not just forcefully expressing his desires? IIRC, last week, many here were arguing that the line between persuasion and manipulation is a fine one, and that some manipulation is kosher. But, of course, that only applies if you are a sexually-adventures wannabe poly, not if you are an emotionally-needy guy.

     I don’t get it: the anti-monogamists say that “it’s not natural” to be monogamous, implying that people should live up to their natures. Well, if this guy’s nature is that he is more emotionally needful than most, why all the hate?

104. Ah, now, cockyballsup; you just want me to quit testifying and go to bragging. Suffice it to say that I am a middle aged emptynester who is comfortable with a 40 hr/wk job, can walk to work if I so choose, and prefers to date women who live within a few blocks of my house. It’s not a complicated life and leaves plenty of time for sex drugs and rock n roll.

105. GQbd@117, how do you find these conveniently located women?

106. mydriasis (last @ # 113), there is always a danger in these forums of giving the impression that one is commenting on some previous commenter’s personal situation specifically when all you really intend to do is comment on facts or scenarios that might apply to a broad range of people. To the extent that I came across as opining on you and your guy’s thing I apologize. That was not my intention.

107. @105 (maddy811)

     I agree with what you said, but I’m not conflating monogamish with polyamory. I also dislike monogamy, sexist polygyny, and the cultural value that sex should be about love. Intellectually, I get that monogamy and sex only in the presence of love works for other people, but I wish it didn’t and I wish there was less of it. I’m just recording the same reaction to monogamish. It’s not a productive, useful, or kind reaction I’m having, so maybe I shouldn’t have posted about it, but I did.

     There is a spectrum between monogamish and polyamory, and spectrums of relationships inside those two categories. Some poly people don’t have primary partners, and in some poly relationships people don’t ever meet their lover’s other lovers. To me, the big difference between monogamish and polyamory is the importance of the pair bond, and I dislike the pair bond, so that means I dislike monogamish.

     My spouse was talking to a friend about our relationship, and the friend told em that, from what they’d heard from friends, swinging was better than polyamory, because couples stayed together longer with swinging than with polyamory. This value system assumes that the pair bond is the most important thing, and relationships that lead to the longest chronological pair bonds are better. I disagree, and see this as a monogamy centric viewpoint. To me, the ideals of monogamish seem too much like the ideals of monogamy.

108. EricaP, my current exclusive GF would tell you that I sit on my front porch and smile when women walk by. Sometimes they smile back. That is not the only way I meet people but that is how it works in more than a few cases. A smile is very sexy thing. I commend it to everyone.

109. Yeah, now that female ejaculation has become prominent in porn — and since one of our female friends has claimed to be a squirter — my husband feels bummed out that he can’t make me squirt. Ugh. I feel great about our sex life until he brings up squirting, then I just feel inadequate.

110. color me impressed.

111. @123 is meant for @121. I hope j2patter@122’s husband learns to stop pushing her.

112. You honor me EricaP. Yours are some of the most sympathetic and elucidating comments in this forum.

113. @98, 99, 102, 103, 110:

     I’m pretty sure #4 was trolling: that is, saying something just to stir up angry opposition.

     Here’s some more info on the source and quantity of female ejaculate: http://www.the-clitoris.com/n_html/femal&hellip;

     Essentially, it can be up to 2 cups: the fluid is produced by the female prostate and stored in the bladder (which has a capacity of 2 cups), though it isn’t urine.

     You can check this by peeing as much as you can, fully emptying your bladder, then ejaculating large quantities of fluid: since you emptied your bladder first, clearly the fluid wasn’t stored there, but was generated by the female prostate during the process of stimulation and ejaculation.

114. @109: I meant, why do you think those jobs aren’t “ok”? (Just curious; they seemed a bit random.)

115. @106, 111: Since the general assumption is that you’re expected to behave differently to/around people who are not available to date others than to people who are, it’s probably a good idea for someone’s “availability” status to be a public thing.

     In addition, what about monogamish people who are very close with one of the friends they sleep with sometimes? They may want “public acknowledgment and acceptance” even without long-term cohabitation.

116. Don’t you just love it. MB gets periodically incapacitated by stress and wants to be President. No stress there, but then we all know who really would be President after all she is such a dutiful (submissive) little breeder.

117. @120: Yeah, I dislike monogamy as a “value,” but really it’s just one of many possible structures that make relationships work for people. I feel torn between thinking it’s just how some people are wired, and thinking it’s unhealthy and weird.

     I do share your wish that there was less of it. I have the same squick to it that I do to an acquaintance’s relationship, where they agreed that each of them was not allowed to have friends of the opposite sex. It just seems sick and possessive and controlling.

     Why are you against a pair bond, though? Even in a polyamorous relationship, there are still pair bonds, just more of them.

118. Don’t you just love it. MB gets periodically incapacitated by stress and wants to be President. No stress there, but then we all know who really would be President after all she is such a dutiful (submissive) little breeder.

119. @86 I was expressing two unrelated thoughts. The second had nothing to do with her job. I was thinking about the differences in experience and neediness. A sense of growing frustration on her part.

120. Am I the only one who reads the title and hears the “Mahna mahna” song from Sesame Street in my head? Monogamish, doo doo de doo doo. Monogamish, doo doo de doo.

121. So would the results of OMFG getting pegged with his new toy qualify as santorum? Or is some modification of the word required? Santora?

122. Monogamish, brilliant.

123. @119 Thanks 🙂

     @132

     It is how some people are wired, trust.

     Before I met the current bf I was super promiscuious and loved being single and having choices. I liked the novelty of being with someone new all the time. When I’m in a relationship I don’t notice other guys. When someone comes on to me it’s reflexive for me to stop them. I don’t need to think about it. I don’t miss being single and I don’t feel like I’m missing out.

     But again, I’m 100% for people being comfortable with nonmonogamy and it benifits everyone (not least of all, me) for us to live in a world where people freely talk about which way they’re wired.

124. Re the pegging/female ejaculate letter: I propose that The Frothy Mix of Lube, Fecal Matter, and Female Ejaculate that is sometimes the byproduct of pegging be henceforth known as Bachmann. Or Marcus, if you think that’s funnier.

125. @132 (BlackRose)

     When I said “pair bond” I meant a relationship that is supposed to be more important than other social relationships. In other words, my use of “pair bond” has monogamy, or at least monogamish or swinger, connotations. I also happen to really, really like small group interactions, which are different from one of one interactions (which I also like!).

126. @138: My problem is not with anyone feeling that way, but more with people insisting that their partner should always feel that way. Or making a rule that their partner should never date/kiss/flirt with/have sex with anyone else.

127. @140: Isn’t that also the case in poly relationships where there is a primary partner as well as secondary partners?

128. @141

     Why?
     I’m hetero – do you also have a problem with me “insisting” that my partner have a penis?

     I’m not insisting YOU need to be that way, it’s just something that I want in a relationship – and experience suggests I’m not the only one. Not all guys get off on their woman being with other men. In fact there’s a lot of guys out there who get (*gasp*) jealous!

     I don’t understand why you have a problem with something that two consenting adults agree to in a relationship.(It’s not a ‘rule’ one person makes for the other, it’s something that gets agreed on when one person says ‘so… do you want to be exclusive?’ and the other one says ‘hey sure’. It’s not as draconian as you make it sound)

129. I have no problem with other people being poly but at this point in my relationship I can’t deal with it (and we’ve had polyfuckus points and shared girlfriends points). It’s not jealousy or drama, it’s the time thing and also it’s hard enough dealing with one another’s shit and getting it down just being together without adding another fucking layer on top of it with someone else’s bullshit to deal with.

     I can squirt but I dislike doing it. It doesn’t make the O any better or worse but it makes my bed have a nasty wet spot I dislike, and I don’t like the feel of towels under my ass. And I too have experienced the “project” feeling of a man where he’s decided I need to have this kind of O and he is just the one to bring me there. Ugh… spare me. When did a plain old BJ go out of style? Now it’s all anal and squirting. And I’ve tried anal every which way and unlike everyone else I fucking hate Tristan Taoromino because NO not everyone CAN like anal but fuck me if that’s not exactly what most men take from her books when they read them. Men should be fucking banned from reading those books unless they have a partner who is so into having it up her ass she gives him a copy.

     In other news, I am glad I married a man who finds anal totally gross, and I found this out entirely on accident before we ever even started flirting. I confess I began flirting with him immediately upon discovering this.

130. @143: Of course consenting adults can organize their relationship however they want, and I’m glad that they have the freedom to do so and options to choose from. I don’t think it’s a male/female thing necessarily, just different preferences. (And every single human on the planet gets jealous sometimes, monogamous or not, it’s just a question of how you handle the jealousy.)

     But, well, it squicks me a little. Like scat play, or cuckold fantasies, or 24/7 TPE, or saying that your partner is not allowed to have friends of the opposite sex, something about it just strikes me as unhealthy and controlling. It bothers me because it’s regulating your partner’s behavior even when they’re not spending time with you. It’s specifying not what you want in your relationship, but the kind of relationships that your partner is allowed to have with other people. Compare “don’t whistle around me cause it bothers me” with “don’t whistle around other people when I’m not there, because I’ll feel hurt and betrayed if you do.”

     And part of it is just that monogamy is seen as a good thing, a cultural ideal, an expectation that that’s how mature responsible adults are supposed to live. So people do get stuck in monogamy if they’re not careful, just because it’s the default. And people do get pressured into it in all sorts of subtle ways.

     And of course, when people agree to be exclusive and someone slips up, as people do because no one is perfect, it’s seen as a horrible thing to do, a betrayal, making you a “cheating piece of shit,” rather than just accepting that people make mistakes. While you don’t notice or think about dating or flirting with other people, that’s not the case for everyone, and a slip-up gets seen as a horrible breach of trust or as “giving into temptation.” Whereas if someone, say, promises to wash the dishes every night, and misses a night once in a while, it’s not a big deal.

     In other words, it’s often seen not just an agreement to be exclusive, but as a moral judgment on the other person for how they act. And the “temptation” to date or flirt or have sex with someone else is always all around you.

     And while you talk about it as just a ‘hey, sure, let’s be exclusive’ kind of discussion, sometimes it is what one person really wants while the other isn’t sure, or is reluctant, but goes along to try it, or they think it’s what they should do, or they want to make their partner happy, or they’re afraid to make waves. It’s something that can be used to manipulate or guilt-trip a partner, especially when people don’t understand or accept non-monogamous relationships as legitimate. (“How could you want other people? You must not love me? Am I not good enough?”)

     It’s difficult to look at the costs and benefits of choosing monogamy, and make a rational decision, when it’s such an emotional and moral issue for people. Speaking personally, it’s been an ultimatum that I’ve received many times, not a ‘hey, let’s be exclusive’ thing, and it’s hard to know how to respond to that.

     I know this is an irrational prejudice of mine in some ways, and I certainly am not trying to tell you or anyone else how you should conduct your relationships. But I wish monogamy weren’t as common, and I think in a more free and honest world a monogamous relationship would generally be seen as an odd and somewhat controlling choice that people nevertheless occasionally choose. There is a case to be made that monogamy is not as healthy or realistic of a relationship model as other options.

131. @145 “Of course consenting adults can organize their relationship however they want”

     No they can’t, especially not when kids are involved. If nothing else, the law and state gets involved (usually badly, the law is an ass). Cultural expectations affect it, and other people sometimes have legitimate interests in the outcome.

     I’m absolutely with you that a more flexibile and understanding take on what should be done in each circumstance would work much better.

     Unfortunately, there’s now a common view of monogomy with strict insistence on sexual fidelity, but without any commitment to be GGG – the opposite in fact: an ideology of autonomy and no responsiblities, whilst constraining the other person to exclusivity. I do like Dan’s clarity on that lunacy.

132. @145 BlackRose
     I’m enjoying your thoughtful commentary. This might seem to nitpick but I think it’s an important element here. You wrote:

     “if someone, say, promises to wash the dishes every night, and misses a night once in a while, it’s not a big deal”

     This made me recall Stevie Nicks singing, “well I’ve been afraid of changing ’cause I built my life around you.” No one builds their life around housework. They do set out to build a life around a particular commitment to a relationship. That may be monogamous or not, but whatever rules you set up, and no matter how many people are involved, that commitment is the biggest thing in your life. Having a “slip up” there is the biggest upset that you will experience (excluding death).

133. I fail to see how you’re not just moralizing it as ‘bad/unhealthy’ instead of ‘good/mature’. When I think intellectually you know (and I’ve been trying to argue) that it’s not a moral issue, simply a preference one.

     Like I said, some people are wired to monogamy. I have no desire to force/pressure someone into a monogamous relationship, I just want to be with someone who wants the same lifestyle as me. (Don’t a lot of us?)

     I’m sorry you’ve had such negative experiences but for me personally the conversation WAS like that. Me and the boyfriend started out as, I guess ‘sex buddies’ and early (within the first two or three weeks, I think) after we started seeing eachother I had some sexual things happen with other people. It never came up until we had the exclusivity talk and it turned out that through the whole time we had been involved he hadn’t been with anyone else. He’s not wired that way either. And he wasn’t stoked on the fact that I had (although obviously it was kosher since we were nowhere near official at that point) but he didn’t hold it against me. But he was happy to know that it wouldn’t be happening in the future.

     You’re still looking at it from the frame of one person wanting to fuck around and the other person forbidding them to do it. While that DOES happen and while it may be your experience, that’s not the definition of monogamy and it’s certainly not what a person aspires to in a monogamous relationship any more than petty infighting and jealousy is what poly relationships aspire to.

     All in all I think you’re largely ignoring the mutual nature of monogamous relationships (the ones done right). When I’m in a relationship I actually really like turning guys down because I know how important it is to my S/O. It’s nice to have something that we have together that no one else gets to have.

     I don’t feel “controlled” – I’m doing something that makes a person I love happy. I don’t understand why that has to squick you out, but oh well.

134. @Mr. J/Blackrose

     Thanks for taking a crack at that comment, I wasn’t sure how to approach it since our feelings are so different.

     I finally came up with an analogy though. It’s not like doing the dishes. So here goes: I’m a meat eater. I love bacon. But let’s – for the sake of argument – say I’m a vegetarian. I want my boyfriend to be a vegetarian too, since it matters to me. I meet a guy, it comes up, and it turns out he is too! A long term relationship ensues and then one day I walk by a restaurant and see him eating a huge burger with a friend.

     That’s kind of more along the lines of what cheating is like? If that helps?

135. @mydriasis

     I’ve been quite clear on your thinking for some time now. Don’t feel that you need to clarify for my sake. I have no problem with what you said @148,150. You recognize that there is a distinction between wanting something for your own life and making rules for society.

136. @150 – but what do you do then? (rhetorical you) Is vegetarianism important enough to ditch a long relationship? Or do you decide that you value this particular person (who occasionally eats meat) more than the principle of both of you never eating meat? Life is hard, and people do change.

137. Erica,

     The more salient point (for me) is the lie. If the person was always a meat-eater then they should’ve told me from the beginning, to not do so is a lack of respect – I think respect is extremely important in a relationship. (Yes, more important than fidelity)

     So the meat-eating (or cheating) coupled with the lie is absolutely enough to ditch a relationship. (For me.) I need to be able to trust my partner and if they lied to me about something that important then I don’t know if I’d be able to trust them ever again. (This is MY issue/bias.)

     If they brought up “hey I want to eat meat now” that would be different or if they told me from the beginning they’re not a vegetarian. Dan Savage seems to agree on this point.

     @Mr. J it was more for BlackRose’s sake but thanks. I appreciate that someone understands my message. 🙂

138. You used the word “then” instead of “than” and have a comma splice. All that, and I’m still only on the first response. WHERE ARE YOUR EDITORS?!

139. @126–that is baloney. Yes, the process of reaching ejaculation does involve a similar feeling to milk letdown in the breasts, in the bladder–fluid is produced. But I have a very hard time believing that all that fluid is coming solely from the Skene’s glands. It’s piss. It’s piss perhaps more diluted than usual and mixed with Skene’s glands ejaculatory fluid so chemically different from regular urine, but come on. And any piss that may already be in the bladder doesn’t magically disappear either.

     I think it’s cute how men jump through hoops trying to convince women that it’s some sort of magical elixir to make them feel less inhibited and more able to do it, and I certainly agree that it’s more than just a woman peeing forcefully, but whether you call it amrita or squirty juice, it’s still mostly piss.

140. I’ve a feeling it would be pedagogical for the clingy fellow in the second letter to have to get over her who wrote the letter.

141. @4 (even though it’s 150 responses later…)

     You sound like one of those women who hates porn because of your own insecurities: probably surrounding body image (I’m sorry, but that’s generally the type of woman who feels threatened by images of women in porn) or perhaps some sort of sexual abuse? I know, I know, I’m making grand accusations and I don’t know you from Eve. I could be wrong. But the fact is, my boyfriend consumed HUGE amounts of porn in high school (I watched it too, being the sexually liberated girl I am, though not nearly as much as he did), and he was a WONDERFUL, gentle, giving lover. I don’t think watching porn makes you…disrespect or not understand a woman’s sexuality any more than playing video games makes you violent in “real life.”

     It sounds like you have a stick up your ass…when really maybe what you need is a “stick” up your ass, know what I’m saying? 😉

142. @153 – yep, the 4-month lie was the worst of it. But, you know, we’d been together half our lives. He hadn’t been lying that whole time; this was a newly felt need. For the record, Dan advised me to forgive this particular lie, if I could, as long as there weren’t more and more of them. I’m a flawed human, and I decided to accept that my husband is a flawed human (with a cute butt 🙂

143. BlackRose: your comment at #145 seems to ignore that poly people often have rules, too. It’s not a dichotomy of “monitoring your partner’s every move” vs. “TOTAL FREE-FOR-ALL!” – it’s a continuum. Within monogamy you get some couples where glancing at an attractive stranger would be grounds for a fight, and other couples where one person could go out and get lap dances from strippers all night and the other wouldn’t care as long as there was no sex. On the poly end, when I was dating a guy in an open marriage, he wasn’t allowed to see me more than three times a week or to ever spend the night at my apartment. And then again I knew a guy who didn’t believe in placing his partners in a hierarchy of “primary” or “secondary” and preferred to let his relationships happen more organically…but when he wanted to fuck one of his partner’s best friends, she flipped out at the idea (the two girls had fought over guys all through high school with the friend usually “winning” and it was still a sore spot for her) so he didn’t. It all comes down to what any given person is prepared to handle – and how much they’re willing to do for someone they love.

     I do think it’s absurd that monogamy is the default state of relationships – in high school I (and everyone else I knew) thought going out with someone a handful of times meant you were a couple now, and it didn’t even occur to us to question this, which landed a lot of people in wildly misguided relationships. But oh well…the important thing is that I learned from my mistakes and now I negotiate my relationships on a case-by-case basis.

     My current relationship started out monogamous because I was only interested in my boyfriend and he was only interested in me. There was no “controlling” of anyone; just, “Here’s how I feel” “Hey, me too!” “Cool. If it ever changes for you, please let me know. I’ll do the same.” …And things did change, and we’re adapting accordingly.

144. Hmm, it’s surprising to hear fee-jak is chemically similar to male ejaculate, and I’m not sure I believe it, since they are widely dissimilar in feel, taste, looks and smell!

     Fee-jak is like WATER, with no smell or taste whatsoever, and when it dries, it’s as though it was never there.

     I state this not from scientific experiment, but from many years of my own experience. Maybe SOME women shoot sticky stinky goo, but I doubt it.

145. This is sort of completely off-topic, but it’s burdening me and I need to get it out. I’ve posted on here extensively about relationship struggles – said some things about my girlfriend (now ex) which were absolutely brutal…to the point that I was admonished (rather politely) that it “didn’t sound like I really liked her very much”. I was focused on me, and my gripes and venting freely…thinking anonymity made it all ok somehow.

     Well, she connected those comments to me, and the hurt that has caused her is beyond belief. I can’t see how to ever expiate that – she has not spoken to me once since – but I need to say how horrible I feel for the pain inflicted. This is truly the worst thing I’ve ever done to someone.

146. @peverse cowgirl

     nail. on. head. thank you!

     @Erica

     we’re all flawed and we have flaws we can and cannot accept. cheating is a flaw I can’t accept. There are many flaws I can accept that other women might not.

147. ps. I’m so sick of talking about what female ejaculate is made of 🙁 I’m supposed to be eating lunch in 5 minutes….ugh

148. @161 awwwww 🙁 I’m sorry. Lesson learned.

149. Sit on my porch and smile? That’s all I have to do!? Christ, don’t let the online dating industry know, they’ll sue you for lost business.

150. @161 cvilletop

     You are entitled to your feelings. Is she really upset by what you wrote or by the fact that you wrote it? Both? The way she split doesn’t speak well for her commitment.

151. All I can say is that I vented about our relationship on here – and I said things that make me want to jump in front of a train when I picture myself saying them to her face.

     It really doesn’t matter how/why or whether the hurt was intentional – it is real and I am responsible.

     I’m not wanting to start a conversation here about it all – I really just wanted to express this publicly, as I did the comments that led to it.

152. All I can say is that I vented about our relationship on here – and I said things that make me want to jump in front of a train when I picture myself saying them to her face.

     It really doesn’t matter how/why or whether the hurt was intentional – it is real and I am responsible.

     I’m not wanting to start a conversation here about it all – I really just wanted to express this publicly, as I did the comments that led to it.

153. Latebloomer @165: I just reported how my GF would describe my pre-her technique – imagine an exasperated roll of the eyes while saying it. Your results may vary.

154. @148: Thanks for describing how it worked for you: it seems silly, but I really hadn’t thought of monogamy that way before.

     I think there’s a huge distinction between monogamy by happenstance, in the sense that you are both only interested in each other at the time, and monogamy by fiat, where it’s imposed as a rule requiring you to actively fight temptation at all costs.

     Put another way, I think monogamy should be practiced consciously, chosen mutually, regularly discussed and re-evaluated, and not used as a condition for continuing the relationship. (And I’d say the same for any other relationship model.)

     What I find disturbing is when monogamous couples build their whole relationship around the promise of monogamy being perfectly kept 100% of the time.

     @159: Yes, and at a certain point on that continuum it starts to look less like reasonable rules and more like people being controlling. We’d all agree, I’m sure, that there are some sorts of rules a couple could consensually institute that would be extremely unhealthy and controlling. One example might be not masturbating or watching porn. Or regulating what each other eats, or the friends each other has.

     “Extreme” monogamy (no dating or flirting with anyone else, no discussing other options, any slip-up is a betrayal) strikes me as a little too controlling.

     My feelings on this are conflicted — it’s a complicated issue — and thanks for giving me some new perspectives.

155. What #14 said.
     I come, and I’ve known one other female friend who comes. The commonalities of our experiences, and what I’ve read in non-porn discussions, is something VERY different from the “Girls Who Cum” porn I’ve seen.
     Hate to break it to those avid consumers, but if the lady is “squirting like a hydrant”, she’s probably not coming, she actually is just peeing on you. Compare that hosing down with a normal guy ejaculating and you’ll understand what I mean. I saw one porn film of what was supposed to be a female ejaculator, in which she “came” into a wine glass, filling it more than half way up, and then drank it, proclaiming it was “ooOOoo… girl cum!”.

     Yyyeah, uhm… no.

     My ex (who would have been VERY squicked at being pissed on by anyone) was all cool with it once he determined for himself that, whatever it was that I was emitting when I peaked, it wasn’t pee.
     And FWIW, neither I or the other girl I knew who occasionally ejaculated ever made a wet spot bigger than a couple inches across on the sheets, and for both of us, direct G-Spot stimulation was required and thoroughly enjoyed. Ex described the odor as strangely sweet, and kind of clingy.
     And we didn’t have to go to Vienna to figure it out, either.

156. And yes, it really is kind of like hot water – no color, and once dried, undetectable. In that respect it’s VERY different from male ejaculate.

157. @171: ‘to come’ means ‘to have an orgasm,’ whether or not you ejaculate.

     And no, large quantities of female ejaculate are not urine. I know because I’ve seen women completely empty their bladder before ejaculating large quantities of fluid.

158. Civelletop,
     I’m sorry that your girlfriend was hurt, and that you feel so bad. I guess we all assume the internet is a lot more anonymous than it might actually be!
     But as far as beating yourself up about it–try to just consider it a lesson learned.

159. zzzzzzzzzzzz. i’m quitting savage love. bring back found letters. This guy needs his head examined.

160. Regarding female ejaculate and urine… ladies, there’s a simple test you can do at home if you can ejaculate: Take Azo Standard (available OTC), wait a day or so, and get yourself off. Check the color of your come by dabbing a bit on a kleenex; Azo dyes urine vivid orange. My result? Champagne colored, not Sunkist.

     Not piss, but possibly some cross-contamination.

161. Squirters are AWESOME,

     Or at least my wife is. Once she got past the “I’ve got to pee” stage, ie that no matter what is coming out, her lover is more than happy to receive it, it just meant a towel was needed. Sometimes it’s sweet (definitely not urine for non-diabetes), sometimes it’s bitter like coffee. I can’t be alone in noticing that what a woman eats can flavor her pussy. I’ve even tasted garlic from a girlfriend’s nipples. Why should it be a shock that some of what scents urine ends up in other fluids? In any case, it’s like queefs, all part of the fun.

     I wonder if my coming just from having a orgasming pussy heaving into my face is odd. I even had a girlfriend call me a liar til I showed her the splouge on the side of the bed. My point: we aren’t all exactly alike, and it’s all to the good.

     Peace.

162. I like the term Monogamish. I support that type of relationship. It makes sense. I am therapist and I see plenty of couples that are exploring this type of relationship. The problem that I keep seeing come up in session is that when a partner wants to be monogamish more often than not it’s because of a fear of intimacy and closeness that they are defending themselves against. When they are desiring a monogamish relationship out of fear of real closeness it never actually works out for the couple. I wish there was a way to tell if a partner wants to practice a more open relationship because of a healthy desire or an unhealthy desire.

163. This is CCG. The guy I’m with is the sweetest, kindest and most gentle and honest man I’ve ever known. I didn’t want him judged badly. I had some horrible relationships until I broke away, got my shit together and got a degree (however you judge what it’s in). There are two issues – the first is that he needs to let me be a little more free or I will suffocate. I need to not have to be with him all the time, or have the pressure that he would lose it if we weren’t together anymore. The second is the stripping. I know not everyone would be happy with this job, but he loves me, not an office worker. he is willing to compromise, obviously i am not the forceful rough bitch people seem to think or I wouldn’t be writing into dan to ask for help. I really love and cherish this guy. He is experiencing love for the first time and I have been trying to make it as amazing as possible but we’ve hit a bump. I can’t change who I am for him, and it feels like thats what he’s asking.

164. @180 CCG

     You are fine the way you are. Don’t change for a guy. Not everyone here thinks you are a rough bitch. I would be perfectly happy to be with a stripper. My attitude is to say “go be happy and then I’ll be happy.” That’s called “being supportive.”

     If you continue to suffocate then get out. He will need to learn to get over failed relationships as every adult does. Don’t let yourself be held hostage to that. Don’t be cruel either, but I really don’t think you need to be told that. You seem compassionate to me.

165. CCG A good part of the problem is that you have decided to make, what for a lot of people would be a major change. While you stripped in the past, you weren’t when you became involved. You don’t say how much of your past you told him or when. Even if he knew, was he aware of the possibility of your returning to stripping? It is easier to accept something that predates your relationship than, what he may perceive to be, a major change that affects your future.

     As I understand it, GGG requires a person to be reasonably accepting. The problem being that what seems to be reasonable to one person may not be to some one else.

166. @55 Much like how a guy can’t ejaculate and piss at the same time, a woman can’t either–I know from experience

167. @178: You’re male? And you can come without physical stimulation? Amazing: I had only heard of this in females.

168. I think it’s so weird that in this day and age we don’t really know what the hell female ejaculate actually is. The best science determines that it’s “not pee”? Geez, man.

     jill
     http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co&hellip;

169. @187 inbed

     Not so much “weird” as “shameful” when taken in the wider context of how long it took us to even start looking at things like heart disease in women. (What? Y’all aren’t just men without dicks? Huh.)

170. @186,

     Yup, a son, father, and a husband.

     When I feel a pussy pounding into my face, along with her taste and smell (and delicious weird noises), I have a “white flash” sort of orgasm (as opposed to a “screaming bucker”). Given that a woman’s pussy is right in front of my eyes, my nose and mouth are saturated with the scent and flavor, and the lips and tongue may have more tactile nerves than the genitals, is it that surprising? Maybe that’s my peculiar advantage, because for me it isn’t just a project or a point of control, the better her O, the better my O. And on top of that getting my face and chest soaked with her juices when she ejaculates…

     It isn’t better than being touched on my penis, but it’s definitely real.

171. CCG: “The job was great for me and allowed me such sexual (and financial!) liberation. I didn’t orgasm for the first time until after I took control of my own sexuality via stripping.”

     “Sexual liberation?” What 188 said. So it isn’t just a job; there is a sexual component to the stripping for you. Explain why he shouldn’t find this aspect at least as threatening as say, you having a group of friends that you go out and do sexual things with on a regular basis.

172. Dear CCG,

     When you wrote that it was sexually liberating to strip, was it because you literally no longer had anything to hide? I have been a card carrying naturist. I never felt any compulsion to expose myself, but very much felt liberated when I did on my first visit to a nude beach.

     I sometimes wonder if it isn’t akin to coming out of the closet. I went to a gathering, made new friends, and yet after wandering around nude for a couple of days suddenly had a rush of panic that I was naked in front of lots of people. That fear, that lack of acceptance of oneself, is what we normally carry around ourselves because of what others might think of us. And boy, getting rid of that constant state of fear feels GREAT.

     It’s your decision, but honesty in who you are should be your goal.

     Peace.

173. I’m looking at Married in MA’s comments and I’m thinking how little respect is given to a man’s emotional needs when it comes to arousal. Maybe when you’re a young buck, sure, but (at least in my case )the older men get the more they are like women. I had a wife once who like to compare men to light bulbs and women to ovens. What she couldn’t understand was that I too had an emotional connection to sex and that I couldn’t just turn on and off (i.e., no amount of black nylons and cute little ass in my face was gonna make up for ragging on me half the time). Now, although I love to be fondled and have my cock sucked, what gets me hard to begin with is a positive respones to my teeth on her nipples, or an assertive tongue on her clit, or that very pleased but self conscious “Oooooh” when I rim her, or the wetness that fills my mouth that I know is not just me. For me at least, a satisfied woman is the biggest turn on in the world.

174. Sanctus Santorum.

     To the Republican closet-case forum
     came the Christians of prissy decorum.
     Marcus Bachmann, that rube,
     forgot to bring lube,
     and they had to re-use the santorum.

     BullseyeRooster.com

175. @190: That is hot! I’m kinda jealous. And yes, I find it incredibly surprising. It’s not a question of quantity of nerves as much as it is their quality.

     I don’t know the neurology behind it but it is definitely a different feeling for me when sexual nerves are touched, as opposed to nonsexual ones. The difference (for me at least) is entirely about where on my body the touch is, as opposed to context or sight or scent or hearing.

176. @ 188 and 199

     “The job was great for me and allowed me such sexual (and financial!) liberation. I didn’t orgasm for the first time until after I took control of my own sexuality via stripping.”

     When i said liberation I only meant in relation to the control I took of my own body. Previously I was unaware of how (too) easily I would give my sexuality and body to partners, and in working as a stripper I really learned to value myself in a way I hadn’t before. I learned how to say no and value my limits. I also learned a kind of peace towards my body in that I make good money and people want it, so maybe I shouldn’t get too hung up on a few spots or scars. I’m not saying it’s a method that would work with everyone, and I should clarify this value is not monetary. It’s just learning how to take control and learn acceptance.I don’t get kicks from the dancing for the customers. That’s just another aspect of the job.

177. @170

     I’m glad I was able to give a bit of a new perspective. It’s always interesting to have my ideas challeneged because I get to look at them from a different angle too.

     One thing I found interesting is that you listed ‘no dating’ under the ‘extreme monogamy catagory’. That’s surprising to me! Because dating to me is one of the most extreme things. And I think a lot of poly relationships are built on the same idea.

     For my guy, the thought of him flirting (for example at work, because we both have service industry jobs where flirting is basically the baseline of interaction) doesn’t really bother me, porn watching and etc doesn’t bother me. But the thought of him dating another woman? That bothers me. I mean, it’s pretty standard cliche for women to be more bothered by ’emotional cheating’ than sexual. I think dating is sort of in that catagory.

     Or did I misunderstand you?

     Also: this is something that I think is so great about sexuality – how diverse it is. Re: the man who ejaculates while giving oral. You think that’s hot? That is basically the least appealing sexual encounter I can possibly imagine. But hey, everyone being different is what makes the world go ’round. I love it.

178. @198,

     Ahh, you just don’t like the idea of the stain on the side of the bed, right?

     About being a squirter vs “dry”: if you can let yourself feel safe and comfortable enough to orgasm so hard you can barely walk, then what more do you need? I especially love those times when my wife is half conscious, quivering, and I gently trace the ripples across her abdomen and thighs (and breasts, and knees…). Yeah, it’s all good.

     Peace.

179. CCG- I totally get it. Dancing makes me feel good too on so many different levels. Good luck making the BF understand. I wrote a poem about a similar situation:

     MY OWN LITTLE WORLD
     As I sit here bored shitless each day at my desk
     I struggle through it like it’s some kind of test
     I like that they think that I’m smart and efficient
     But this mundane existence seems somewhat deficient
     I have quit the dance, given up my art
     Traded up for a better life, when does that start?
     I really do hate this 8-5 scene
     I wish I’d wake up and it would be a bad dream
     I’d awaken on stage surrounded by fans
     With dollars in each of their outstretched hands
     The desire of many, possession of none
     I’d symbolize sex and exemplify fun
     I know the grass always looks greener on the other side
     But, I miss my alter ego in which I could hide
     I liked living in my own little world of illusion
     My rock&roll fantasy sex-goddess delusion

180. @73,
     re: better names than “squirting”
     Back in the early 90’s we called it “gushing.” I think “gusher” sounds better than “squirter”.

181. Female ejaculate comes from a woman’s Skene’s gland which is the analogous part to the male prostate which has a large part in male ejaculate. This has been known for quite some decades by now. And just a reminder to you all…porn may have it’s place, but just like Hollywood movies and Facebook, it doesn’t reflect reality.

182. @199

     No, it’s not a stain thing at all! I’m just not really into receiving oral and I’m (luckily) generally turned off by men who are into giving it. To me, a man orgasming while going down on a lady is the biggest bummer. That just means having to wait a refractory period length before getting to the PIV. Which is the part I look forward to.

     But that’s me.

     Also I think the whole “squirters have better orgasms” thing is pretty spurious.

183. @ CCG: Sounds like you have a pretty clear example of the autonomy vs attachment conflict that commonly happens in relationships. You might try checking out the book Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. I have some issues with some of what he says (and how he says it), but there’s some good material in there about the importance of differentiation in relationships (that being the ability to be true to your own values without withdrawing from your partner); poly books make similar arguments but (obviously) not from a monogamous perspective.

     @ 170: You have a very strange notion of what monogamy is.

     Put another way, I think monogamy should be practiced consciously, chosen mutually, regularly discussed and re-evaluated, and not used as a condition for continuing the relationship.

     Um, no. If one partner wants a monogamous relationship and the other doesn’t, that’s perfectly legitimate grounds for ending the relationship. Compulsory nonmonogamy is just as wrong as compulsory monogamy. A monogamy mismatch is a sexual incompatibility just like a heterosexual person and a homosexual person dating each other. I don’t know where you get the idea that the nonmonogamous person is entitled to continue the relationship even if their partner identifies as monogamous – it takes two people to make a relationship, and only one to end it.

     And FTR, “no dating other people” is not “extreme monogamy”. You’re really not helping the nonmonogamous cause here.

184. @ CCG: Sounds like you have a pretty clear example of the autonomy vs attachment conflict that commonly happens in relationships. You might try checking out the book Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. I have some issues with some of what he says (and how he says it), but there’s some good material in there about the importance of differentiation in relationships (that being the ability to be true to your own values without withdrawing from your partner); poly books make similar arguments but (obviously) not from a monogamous perspective. Might help with the whole “I’m going to strip and I need some time and space of my own away from you, but that doesn’t mean I don’t love you or want to leave you.” But don’t forget that just because this is his first relationship and you don’t want to break his heart, that doesn’t mean you have to compromise who you are or what you want. Differentiation also means being willing to leave a relationship that’s not a good fit for you.

     @ 170: You have a very strange notion of what monogamy is.

     Put another way, I think monogamy should be practiced consciously, chosen mutually, regularly discussed and re-evaluated, and not used as a condition for continuing the relationship.

     Um, no. If one partner wants a monogamous relationship and the other doesn’t, that’s perfectly legitimate grounds for ending the relationship. Compulsory nonmonogamy is just as wrong as compulsory monogamy. A monogamy mismatch is a sexual incompatibility just like a heterosexual person and a homosexual person dating each other. I don’t know where you get the idea that the nonmonogamous person is entitled to continue the relationship even if their partner identifies as monogamous – it takes two people to make a relationship, and only one to end it. Monogamy is a joint agreement, not a preference for how often you wash the dishes.

     And FTR, “no dating other people” is not “extreme monogamy”. You’re really not helping the nonmonogamous cause here.

185. Please ignore #204.

186. @93: Your 10 minutes per week obviously doesn’t have to factor in hauling all your stuff to the car (or bus), transit time to the laundromat, sitting there until all your loads are done, folding/hanging everything, and the return trip home. Even if you have only one load, there’s your two hours right there.

187. @207 & @93 Laundry takes longer than 10 minutes even if you have a washer/dryer. Mine takes 20 min to wash 30 min to dry, and varying times to hang up, fold,(possibly even iron) and put away. I totally get it. I’m monogamous for the same reasons as mydriasis.

188. @laundry-doers… Is your laundry really keeping you from hot sex? You want hot sex with other people, but the laundry keeps you from having time? LOL.

     Time it takes for a straight woman to have sex with a new guy:
     30 minutes to create a post on AdultFriendFinder or CL.
     30 minutes to sort through the responses, draft your reply, and arrange the meet-up.
     60 minutes to drive to the guy’s place and have sex.

     If you aren’t sneaking around then you can skip the public meeting — the guy will know that someone else has all of his identifying information. And all of this can be done at your own convenience, if you’re not very picky. Don’t have sex outside your relationship if you don’t want to, but please don’t blame the laundry!

189. @209 – I’ve been trying to stay out of the whole brouhaha over your multiple posts, but at this point, I just have to say EWWW… If it takes all of a half-hour for you to vet your various conquests, no wonder you’re having such shitty sex outside your marriage.

190. mydriasis:

     @203: Well, there’s no way to compare one person’s pleasure to another person’s pleasure, but women who have both squirting and non-squirting orgasms usually say the squirting ones are better. You don’t believe them?

     @198: Also, I’m not sure, you may have misunderstood me. When I said “dating,” I didn’t mean it in the sense of having a girlfriend or a serious relationship with someone else. I meant it in the sense of getting to know new people and spending time with them (in a romantic context).

     I’m not even thinking of dating here as necessarily including sex, depending on the terms of the non-monogamy. It could just be getting dinner or coffee, or flirting, or kissing. So yes, I definitely think banning dating is more ‘extreme’ than banning sex!

     And in my experience the cliche about women being more bothered by an emotional connection with a third person than sex with a third person is completely false. But it’s likely my experience isn’t representative. Have you found that to be true? I’m not sure what you mean, though, cause friendship is an emotional connection. I don’t even think banning emotional connections workable in practice, because it’s difficult to draw a line between emotional connection in friendship vs. dating.

     And I’m not talking about “cheating”, to be clear, which brings up whole different issues because it’s a breach of trust. I’m talking about the perceived pain, or jealousy, from your partner having a sexual vs. emotional connection with someone else.

     Oh, and about the squirting being hot thing, I just meant the idea of him coming just from that was hot. In practice, for myself, I think I would prefer to come in a pussy as well.

191. @203, *ahem*. (The part about the stain was supposed to be a joke)

     The latter part of 199 was supposed to be in support for your last statement, but alas wasn’t clear enough.

     As it turns out, when I have those oral orgasms, I can have more than one, and still keep an erection (though not as well as I used to). What usually happens after I prime my wife’s G-spot is moving the towel to the middle of the bed for a nice, sloppy, noisy cowgirl ride (French vanilla, but still vanilla).

     (Geeze, I feel like Otter from Animal House, when Babs tells him it wasn’t that great.)

     Peace.

192. @210 – Just trying to say that it’s not the laundry, it’s their pickiness that keeps them from the occasional tryst 🙂

     I’m picky, myself, so it does take me more time to vet people. Also, thanks for your concern — my outside sex has been hella fun, recently, thanks to tips from Slogsters about figuring out what I want and going for it.

193. @209: That made me laugh! You are awesome. 🙂

194. @ Blackrose

     “I meant it in the sense of getting to know new people and spending time with them (in a romantic context).”

     Yeah that’s basically a monogamous person’s nightmare. Or at least this monogamous person’s. Why would you get to know someone in a romantic context if you didn’t want a relationship with them (mono, or otherwise)? That’s the emotional equivilant of getting naked in bed with someone but not having sex. I mean, really?

     Re: squirters. I absolutely don’t think they’re lying but a bunch of people have cited that squirting vs. non is based on anatomy. I don’t think having a little gland that emits fluid is magically going to MAKE orgasms better, it’s more just physical evidence for some women that it WAS good. Or at least that seems more likely. I’ve certainly never heard any evidence that they have magic orgasm powers. :p

     Erica!

     You got me. I’m exceedingly picky. My friends make fun of the fact that I basically won’t give a guy the time of day unless he looks like a model. And that’s for fucking. For relationships he needs to have like a million other qualities too.

     But I prefer “patient” to picky. Good things come to those who wait.

     Still though, you’re way wrong about monogamy and laundry.

     If I have two free hours I could spend half the time looking for a guy online (p.s. I’ve almost never found a decent guy online, and I used to do casual hookups like it was my job) and half the time finding out if fucking him is any good. Or I could go have sex with someone who I know is STD free, I know is good in bed, who I don’t need to put up any precautions with and who is better looking than any picture I’ve ever seen online.

     Hmmm…

195. @205: For some people, it may be an orientation, as you describe. For some people, how often and whether to have sex with other people may come down to a “how often do you wash the dishes” type compromise. And there’s everything in between.

     You are correct that anyone has the power to end a relationship at any time, and relationships aren’t an obligation. But I don’t think that it’s legitimate to throw down an ultimatum, depending on the circumstances. There is a big difference between “I’m sorry, I can’t do this anymore” and “YOU need to change or I will dump you/ not pay you back/ damage your property/ act in hurtful ways.”

     It’s ok for people to have reasonable boundaries and conditions, but that doesn’t mean it’s ok for people to have unreasonable ones or to make ultimatums. And people should have some degree of flexibility and willingness to try things.

     And there are certainly degrees of putting rules on your partner that are overly controlling: for instance, not allowing your partner to have friends or outside interests is generally recognized as being overly controlling. At some point, talk about orientations and compatibility misses the mark because someone is just not being fair or reasonable or legitimate.

     I do recognize that mistreatment can be a problem, in different ways, in any type of relationship. But I’m not sure exactly where the line is: that is, how strong exclusivity conditions can be before they become unhealthy. Can we agree at least that there is a point where they do? (And you could say the same thing about non-monogamy.)

     Also, I’m not sure why you think banning dating (even casual non-physical dating) is not extreme, unless you misunderstood what I meant by dating: I meant it as in “going on a date,” not necessarily sexual or a relationship.

196. There’s a newlywed couple, just starting out together.

     Being a little shy, they use the term “doing the wash” in place of “having sex”.

     One night the husband, feeling horny, starts pestering his bride to “do the wash”, but she being tired says no.

     Early the next morning the wife, feeling guilty, wakes her husband early to ask if he still wants to “do the wash”.

     He replies, “no thanks, I already did it by hand”.

197. @217 – laundry doesn’t get dirty overnight (unless the sex was fantastic!), but most guys are ready again in the morning. If these newlyweds existed, they’d have problems beyond their reliance on euphemism. 😛

198. @215:

     To answer your first question at face value: because an emotional/romantic/sexual connection with someone can still be valuable and enriching even if it’s not in an official boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.

     I don’t know or not if it’s theoretically possible for every woman to squirt. But there are a lot of women who thought they couldn’t for a long time, and then finally were able to.

     As far as I know, every woman has Skene’s glands, though they may not all have ones that gush. Some may just dribble a little and some may seem to not produce any fluid. My point wasn’t that the ability to squirt magically makes orgasms better, but that in someone who has that ability, squirting actually does often make the orgasm more intense. At least, that’s what they say. And it’s not surprising physically, because the fluid builds up additional pressure that gets released.

     Just curious… help me understand. You’re ok with flirting all day? That’s at least a slight degree of non-monogamy that a lot of people couldn’t just compartmentalize and say it doesn’t matter, even if it was at work (CCG’s boyfriend, for instance). And if flirting is ok, how do you determine when a friendship crosses the line to being emotionally threatening, or too close, or starts getting romantic-like? There’s no clear boundary, and people should have close friends of both sexes outside the relationship.

199. See, I think you have it backwards, though. Squirting doesn’t cause intensity – intensity causes squirting. For some people the same degree of intensity can exist without the squirting. That’s my logic, anyway.

     Or to make a comparison: I’m a bit of a “screamer”. I’m super vocal. Sex that gets me waking up our neighbors is obviously usually better than sex with less of a decibel count, but that doesn’t mean that I think women who are quiet during sex don’t come as hard as I do. Not neccesarily anyway.

     I… really don’t know how to explain the dating things because I have a feeling it’s just semantic confusion.

     Flirting is superficial. I’m really desensitized to it because it’s super common in the industry. Plus also I’m one of those people who comes off flirty without trying to be. Sometimes that’s annoying. If I’m nice to someone of the opposite sex that’s construed as flirting. If I’m bitchy/sarcastic/dry that’s just ‘teasing’ aka another form of flirting.

     To me, flirting is nothing. It’s just how people get along and pass the time. And for someone who’s comfortable being monogamous, it’s non-threatening. (We don’t do it in front of eachother, though. And why would I? Why would I flirt with the second cutest guy in the room?)

     Dating (again, for me, and for any partner I’ve had) is a means of vetting a potential S/O. Most people I know see it that way. So dating is uber-off limits for me.

     Um… in terms of opposite-sex friendships? Yeah that can be interesting territory for straight monogamous couples. Speaking from my own experience? My partner isn’t attracted to any of his female friends. Most of the friends he has are male, anyway. He’s had the odd female friend who’s into him, but I’m not “threatened” because I trust him, and I know he doesn’t see them in that way.

     Same goes for me. I’ve actually kind of given up on trying to be close friends with straight guys because I find a lot of the time they tend to want other things at some point. Almost all my closest friends are female or gay guys (to be SUPER clear, this isn’t to please any guy. It’s always how things have been for me). I had a pretty close guy friend briefly and he was a little uneasy about it until he met him and saw what he looked like.

200. @218 GAAAHHHH!!!!

     IT’S
     A
     JOKE!!!

     I know it sucked, but it was the only laundry joke I know.

201. @221 Your joke was funny – sorry for stepping on it. (My emoticon was supposed to show that I got your joke and was building on it.)

202. @220: On squirting: It’s not just intensity that causes squirting. It usually requires a very specific type of G-spot stimulation (for some women, getting pounded in doggy, for some women, getting fingered hard and fast at the right angle…). When you finger a girl who’s about to squirt you can feel the fluid building up right where you’re fingering, and you can feel when it’s about to “pop.”

     So, I don’t think it’s just intensity that causes squirting. It’s a specific physical response to a specific physical stimulation. And that response tends to make orgasm feel better. Though not always, and you certainly can have intense orgasms without squirting.

     On flirting (hey, it rhymes…): I think it’s more than just being nice or teasing; it usually has some sexual component. And for a lot of people, it’s a way of building attraction and vetting a potential SO. 😉

     Maybe I misunderstood you, but when you mentioned “emotionally cheating” I thought you meant getting too close to someone, regardless of whether or not there’s attraction involved. So it’s not a problem for you if there’s no attraction?

     Anyway, it’s awesome that you found a relationship (though in my mind, not a strictly monogamous one!) that works well for you, and it just goes to show that what one person is uncomfortable with, another person thinks is no big deal. The way you feel about flirting, I might feel about sex or dating.

     I guess I’m impressed/amazed that it worked out so mutually where you wanted the same things; there’s often some amount of tension and power struggles between people as they try to find a compromise.

203. We all have struggles in our relationships, just sometimes we luck out in certain departments.

     With flirting: I don’t consider myself flirtatious – but the way I interact with people is often seen as flirting. Sorry, I guess it wasn’t clear.

     With your other question… well, now we’re getting down to the very base components of what we think makes a relationship different from a friendship so I’ll just say how I feel. For me there are three seperate (and fairly discrete) kinds of attractions/interactions.

     1. Friendly/emotional. By itself this is a platonic relationship. This is how I feel about all my friends.

     2. Sexual. Self explainatory, right? Physical/sexual attraction.

     3. Romantic. A lot of people… possibly including yourself don’t distinguish this from just having both 1 and 2 at the same time, but for me it’s really it’s own unique feeling. There’s friends I’ve had that I was close with and that I slept with but I didn’t have real “feelings” for. But this one can’t really exist without both of the first two, either.

     Emotional cheating in my books is if the person shares part 3. So when you described dating as sharing ‘romantic’ time. That’s what made my airways close up. 😛

     So if someone I’m with shares the first bond with someone, I’m okay with that. If there’s no sexual attraction, it’s non-threatening, because the romantic thing isn’t a possibility. Does that make sense?

204. @222

     ok.

205. Just have to say that female ejaculate is real. The first time I did, I was masturbating, and it freaked me out. This was when I was in my 30’s. My doctor had never heard of this and told me not to drink too much water before sex.
     I am in my 70’s now and even when I begin to arouse myself, the puddle begins and when I climax.. 2 towels, please.
     My last lover always got towels ready and a washcloth for his face. I really would like this to go away, or lessen, but even on urine incontince pills, it still is happening in quantity.

206. Hunter78 Chill out, if monogamy isn’t for you fine, if My Driasis only wants monogamy equally fine. You don’t really who My Driasis is and unless you claim clairvoyance you don’t have a clue what the future may bring. She could just as easily drop dead tomorrow for all you know. Many here sing the praises of non-monogamy, which gets to equally tiresome after a while. Sometimes it seems like they are whistling while walking through a graveyard. So unless you are going to censor both sides (may be you have)just let it lie. I’m sure some people find you annoying as well. If you are offended by what is posted here you can always go elsewhere.

207. @227/228

     bitter middle-aged men tend to find everyone’s joy annoying.

     but in any case, I wasn’t proselytizing without any reason – I was responding to questions. beenthere’s right, nonmonogamy is often touted here as being better than sliced bread. I’m just being a wee bit of a counterpoint.

208. @224: I understand completely. So you didn’t mean emotional cheating, you meant specifically romantic cheating.

     I asked because I’ve heard the term “emotional cheating” used in a really fucked-up controlling way, as in, having strong platonic (your type 1) emotions for someone else being “cheating.”

     BTW, there are asexuals who have romantic attraction without sexual attraction, which I find incredibly interesting.

209. @228: Yeah, I’ve been wondering if there’s a good way for women who normally squirt to be able to stop squirting in situations where there aren’t towels handy. I haven’t found one yet: anyone know of one?

210. @231

     Yeah, they’re odd ducks 🙂
     And yeah… “romantic cheating” might be more accurate, but most people would interpret that as… traditional cheating. I dont’ know. In any case, I’d agree with you that cutting off type 1 (friends and family) is controlling.

211. Hey comment kiddies. Not a real big on reading comments, but, that first message about ejaculation is mine. I thought I would clear up a few misconceptions that people have about female ejaculation, and also add some detail about the situation I am talking about.

     1. She comes anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 a cup of liquid, and it squirts out in a big arc- if I am not in the way somehow, I have no doubt that it would leave the play area and get the wall, rug, furniture, etc. We burn through many, many doubled-over towels when we play, and I know other people with this same experience. This is not a porn industry myth, kids. (how to tell it’s real in porn: the girl gets fucked with something, and then it gets yanked out, and a big spurt, or several big spurts shoot out of the girl’s urethra- not her vagina)

     2. She can do this several times within an hour. And then get up and go pee right after it. So. I do not have any doubts that this is pee. It also changes flavor quite a bit.

     3. She can’t stop it without considerable effort, and she only just started having this kind of climax in the last couple of years.

     4. Lastly, I already have the toy on order, and if it survives being modified and is still usable, o m f g.

     And Dan, just so you know it’s me, my e-mail address is a request for “more lube”.

     Ta ta.

     ps: don’t bother directing any questions, ridicule, etc, to me, as I will not be back to read comments.

212. I’m not sure why something–e.g. monogamy, or non-monogamy–being “extreme” necessarily makes it bad. For example, is it worse to want non-monogamy that involves an open-door policy on partners outside the relationship, than it is to want the “monogamish” relationship that still includes some sex with other people?

     What’s wrong with “extreme” monogamy where both parties agree to no sex with others, no romantic entanglements, and no flirting (not sure how flirting is defined, but for now I’ll just say, gestures that would show romantic or sexual interest)? I don’t want to have relationships of that kind with other people, and I don’t want my partner to do that either. If that’s too “controlling”, he could have rejected those terms, or he still could. It’s fine with me if he spends time with other friends, or goes to lunch with them, or hangs out with other gals. I’ve met many lovely friends who first were friends with my husband. But that doesn’t mean he can flirt with them, or go on dates, or become emotionally or sexually involved with them. Same is true for me with male friends.

     To me, “controlling” would mean wanting to deprive my husband of innocent, normal friendships with other women (or men). But it’s not controlling for me to ask that he not become involved with them in some other sense.

     @Hunter78: why does it matter if mydriasis changes her mind about monogamy? I’ve changed my mind about it, to being in favor. Maybe someday it will lose its charm. That doesn’t mean anything about its general value, though.

213. @160: though it may not be entirely similar, have you ever examined male ejaculate that didn’t have sperm in it?

214. @236: I have, with and without sperm, and it’s exactly the same. The sperm are so small and such a minute part of the semen that you can’t tell the difference without a microscope.

215. I’m hearing a rework of Eartha Kitt’s Monotonous in my brain.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrwD8ygpk&hellip;

216. My lover goes insane when I squirt. He works that pussy so hard with his tongue that I practically waterboard him. He’s often let out a big wet belch from having drunk so much of my amrita. He tells me that my ejaculate tastes like sugar water. To me, it smells like oatmeal cookies, not pungent at all. The only problem I have is soaking the bed during sex. It’s OK when he’s eating me because he drinks most of it, but I am multiorgasmic and I can’t help ejaculating during sex, which it leaves us with the world’s biggest wet spot afterward.

217. People,
     Pee smells like pee, female ejaculate does not smell like pee – do you see the logic here? Therefore female ejaculate IS NOT PEE!

     Monogam-ish makes me laugh. Its how I explain my religion to people and why I can eat bacon and lobster, I am Jew-ish….

218. Many guys would be insecure with a gf who strips in a rich-guys club. I agree the bf is clingy but that is a separate issue. Sounds like they are simply not compatible.

219. Just like guys can’t cum and piss at the same time, neither can women. I am a multi-orgasmic woman who squirts. I’ve had many partners and been monogamous, and here’s what I can tell you.
     1. Every squirt is an orgasm, but not every orgasm squirts.
     2. The likelihood of squirting goes up the more I like a guy, so that’s physiological, where an orgasm is simply physical.
     3. Sometimes it’s just a trickle of a teaspoon or so. Sometimes it’s a gush of maybe a 1/4 cup. One lady here said it’s “projectile”.
     I believe her. But if you’re watching porn, and you see someone aim, they have to be peeing.
     4. It’s not pee. I’ve tasted other women. And I’ve tasted myself off my sweetie’s whiskers, and I’m delicious!

220. Just like guys can’t cum and piss at the same time, neither can women. I am a multi-orgasmic woman who squirts. I’ve had many partners and been monogamous, and here’s what I can tell you.
     1. Every squirt is an orgasm, but not every orgasm squirts.
     2. The likelihood of squirting goes up the more I like a guy, so that’s physiological, where an orgasm is simply physical.
     3. Sometimes it’s just a trickle of a teaspoon or so. Sometimes it’s a gush of maybe a 1/4 cup. One lady here said it’s “projectile”. I believe her. But if you’re watching porn, and you see someone aim, they have to be peeing.
     So a device wouldn’t work, there’s not enough force.
     4. It’s not pee. I’ve tasted other women. And I’ve tasted myself off my sweetie’s whiskers, and I’m delicious!

221. Squirting is not a myth.

     I am able to squirt. Once you get it and practice you know it. It’s like riding a bike – you don’t forget. I’ve reached 6 feet (at least on my own because with a partner it hits there face/hand/chest so it’s hard to measure!) and soaked towels through (up to a liter or even more can ejaculate by the end of a session sometimes.) I have impermeable bed-wetting pads that I place under me or my partner whenever I need it. They cost about $20 at walmart.

     Just to start, there is a difference between cum and ejaculate from a woman, the ejaculate from squirting is clear, consistency of water……..and tastes much different.

     Now to squirt. It’s often more due to the girl than the guy. How much she can let go, etc.

     You need to know your g spot. Well. Squirting works like this (At least how it works for me.) Fill up your glands by clitoral stimulation and then work on your g spot. Once you squirt go back to clitoral stimulation to fill up the glands again. Then work on your g spot to squirt. Repeat as desired. 😉

     Tips. Decrease the worries. Don’t be afraid to pee. (It doesn’t like peeing at all after you’ve done it – but at first some might mistake it for that feeling because as women we are not used to ejaculating things from our body other than pee.) If you want pee right before you masturbate so that you aren’t worried whatsoever. Also, prepare a towel so that when it happens you don’t worry.

     Make sure you are comfortable and can let go.

     However, I find squirting fun and wonderful but not the most mind-blowing orgasms. The best orgrasm I have had is extended orgasms.

     So that’s one thing I have found hard to reproduce – the extended orgasm. I’d done it a handful of times – and it was amazing – once I reached that insane point – orgasms one after another for a solid hour with just a little coaxing. (The poor guy was a bit scared for me!) Involuntary contractions here and there still an hour or two after we were done.

     Absolutely MIND-BLOWING

     squirting is great but it can sometimes become mechanical and not reach that height or state of some orgasms because you are constantly releasing when you squirt. Makes sense?

     Once you learn how to squirt it’s so easy to fall into that pattern of quick release rather than sometimes stopping the squirting to allow the orgasm to build for a very long time so it just shatters you.

     It’s just a very different orgasm when you squirt. But still fantastic.

222. You want chick who squirts? Look here: http://mysexlifewithlola.wordpress.com/

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