I’m unemployed in Oregon and trying to come up with simple ways to make rent. My dear wife and I would like your opinion on the legality of selling my teenage son’s sweaty gym clothes online. It sounds rather skeezy, I realize, and I’m only half-joking here. If we had a nonsexual website with pictures that weren’t necessarily of my son, would that be buffer enough? Would this be seen as me whoring out the boy? He’s up for it—as long as he gets his cut—but could I go to jail for this? He is 14.
Pimpin’ Out Real Teen’s Leftover, Acrid, Nasty Duds
Speaking parent-to-parent, PORTLAND, informing your 14-year-old son that there are perverts all over the internet who would be willing to pay him for his sweaty gym clothes wasn’t the best idea. Whatever you ultimately decide to do with his sweaty jocks, shorts, and T-shirts—and I vote for tossing them in the wash—dangling the money your son could make catering to the desires of online pervs in front of him might inspire him to go into business for himself, whatever you decide to do. So keep an eye on his internet usage, okay? As for the legal issues…
“Selling a physical property—sweat—might be an issue,” said Chris O’Connor, a public defender in Portland, Oregon. “Also, he could be [charged with] fraud and misrepresentation for selling clothing he says is his 14-year-old son’s but isn’t.”
Even if no dissatisfied customers go running to the chamber of commerce, PORTLAND, there are other potential problems. For instance, as your son’s sweaty gym clothes make their way from his bedroom floor to the hands of underpants-huffing pervs all over the world, some items would travel—via US mail or UPS or FedEx—through different jurisdictions. While there may not be a statute in Oregon that you could be prosecuted under for selling his undies, Mississippi or Illinois or Vatican City “may have specific laws, too,” says O’Connor, laws that you could be violating.
The biggest potential problem: Underpants huffers wanna know exactly whose underpants they’re huffing. That means you’ll have to include pictures and biographical info on your website, PORTLAND, and involving a minor—even a fake/buffer one—in what many police officers, district attorneys, judges, and some sex-advice columnists see as a kind of gateway sex work will quickly add arrest, prosecution, incarceration, crushing legal bills, and a lifetime on a sex-offender registry to your current troubles. Even if the authorities can’t point to a particular law that criminalizes your home business, they’ll find something to charge you with.
I’m sorry you’re hurting right now, PORTLAND, but I think you should come up with another way to make rent.
Six months ago, my 17-year-old son told me that he was seeing [insert male name]. No biggie. What troubles me: My son and his boyfriend are “furries” and open about it. The boyfriend is 18 and sweet, but he’s clearly the more dominant one. I’m worried that my son may not know how to say no to him. Adding to my concerns: I found a dog collar in the kitchen with an engraved tag with my son’s name on it. Dog collars seem like a heavy activity for a lad, Dan, and today I noticed a bruise on his throat that’s the size of a collar buckle. How do I ensure he is exploring safely without freaking him out?
Why This Fetish?
Go ahead and freak him out, WTF.
Your son is being open with you about his sexuality—openly gay, openly furred, openly collared—and you shouldn’t hesitate to be open about your concerns. You won’t be able to talk him out of his kinks, WTF, if they’re his kinks (and not, say, a teenage affectation), so focus on the issues: power dynamics and sexual safety. Tell him it’s important that he be able to say no to his boyfriend, and let him know that you’re there for him if he has questions or concerns or needs a sounding board. Then ask him about the bruise on his neck. Dog collars are harmless—lots of kids and kinksters wear ’em—but if he and his boyfriend are playing choking games with that collar, and that’s where the bruise came from, that’s a very dangerous activity and it has to stop immediately.
In your shoes, WTF, I would bark at the boyfriend about that bruise, too. Furry, schmurry. It’s erotic asphyxiation that you should be worried about.
A friend of mine came out as asexual this week on his blog. A couple of questions:
1. Part of me wonders if this is a “real” orientation. Is this the result of some sort of trauma or psychological stuff that could potentially be dealt with through a therapist? I realize that sounds close to the whole “ex-gay therapy” thing, and of course I don’t want to go down that path, but I guess it’s just hard for me to understand how someone can’t form a sexual connection with another person and still be 100 percent okay psychologically.
2. How do I react the next time I see this friend? Not sure about the etiquette.
Does LGBT Need An “A”?
1. Asexuality, according to asexuals and the people who love (but don’t fuck) ’em, is a real sexual orientation… or lack thereof. Usually. Because, you see, some asexuals do “experience attraction,” according to Asexuality Visibility Network (www.asexuality.org), “[but] feel no need to act out that attraction sexually.” So it’s an orientation. Or a disorientation. Or something. But whatever it is, it’s for real.
“I’ve been where your friend is,” says David Jay, the founder of Asexuality Visibility Network. “He wouldn’t have come out without spending a lot of time mulling it over, so respect that he’s done a lot more thinking about this than you have. If he identifies as asexual or anything in the big wide spectrum, you should respect that, period.”
First, I agree 100 percent with Jay. Second, it’s entirely possible that your friend isn’t really asexual, just as it’s possible that I’m not really gay and Marcus Bachmann isn’t really straight. Your friend may have decided to identify as asexual because he can’t deal with his sexuality or wants to opt out because he finds the games required exhausting. Or he may actually be asexual. Whichever it is, you’re not the sexual identity police. So long as your friend isn’t externalizing an internal conflict and making other people miserable in the process—à la Marcus Bachmann—your friend doesn’t need to be confronted or rescued. (And for the record: No one is “100 percent okay psychologically,” and not everyone needs sex and/or a romantic relationship to feel content and enjoy life.)
2. “Hey, how’s it going.”
“Good, man, you?”
“Good. Did you see Rise of the Planet of the Apes?”
“Yeah—terrible.”
“And James Franco was never shirtless—what’s up with that?”
“You know, if you need tits with your science fiction, you should check out Misfits on Hulu. It’s like Lost before it went to shit. And it’s got tits—lots and lots of tits.”
“I’ll check it out—and, hey, I saw that blog post about you ID’ing as asexual. If that’s something you want to talk about, I’d love to learn more. But if it’s not something you want to talk about, we can talk about other shit.”
@168: people into ageplay should realize that about 10% of men and 20% of women were sexually abused as children. They might consider having some intimate talks in the first couple of months of dating, to find out if your partner is among them. Armed with that knowledge, and an understanding of how traumatic it was, the kinksters can then judge how to bring up their kink with sensitivity. Similarly, people should figure out if their partner was raped, before asking for rape-play. Rape-play might still be on the table, but, come on, use some sense when asking about this stuff with people who have been traumatized.
@Blackrose/Erica
Thanks for pointing out the correct passage and sorry about the confusion.
With me personally, I like to err on the safe rather than sorry side. It’s certainly possible that someone brings up the kink/turnon and it’s only a minor interest, but (unfortunately) because of the stigma surrounding it, I’m under the impression that if someone is willing to bring it up outside of kink circles (and risk being judged) they probably have quite a strong preference.
Kind of like that “rule of threes” joke where every woman has slept with three times the number of men she admits to.
And even if that theory isn’t true, the fact is, there are people who will downplay their kink for various reasons. With that specific one, it’s not a risk I’m willing to take.
I’m not a gambler, in general. That’s just my nature.
You also said that you thought that because I’d reject a partner over it, it’s a moral thing. I disagree. For example: someone very close to me has a strong “age kink” I guess you could say. This is someone who was a friend before I knew, and a friend after I knew and I don’t love them any less. It’s not a moral thing. I’m just exceedingly picky about my partners.
“Do we really want people to be afraid they’ll get dumped if they ask about their turn-ons?”
I have long hair, but maybe one day I want to cut it. Lots of men love long hair and I could worry that my short hairstyle would get me dumped…. but who would want to be with that asshole?
@blackrose: rape o philes are said to be into ‘Ravishment’, or less used is the word “coercion” scene, and many of us prefer Ravishment over rape-ophile and rape-play since those describe a crime (but, hey, each their own).*
Blackrose, I admire your simple reasoning. It’s solid and non-alarmist – kinda refreshing for this place. I pray you don’t lose it anytime soon.
* There’s also the Dom/Sub play of ‘forced orgasm’, which can be related to ravishment, but more often is, er, tied to bondage play.
In any case, people should identify their own kinks and clubs and dealbreakers and sexuality, and should never put up with those labels being glued on by others.
Kinks and fantasies and in-yer-head dreams can be whatever the hell you want so long as what you actually do “IRL” is legal and consentual. If I want to pretend I’m ass raping a furry version of Rick Santorum with a Lolita lollipop while wearing his collar, so be it. =D Not unlike abortion, if it squicks you out, then please just don’t do it.
Devil’s advocate: While it’s implied otherwise, PORTLAND’s son could be the one who came up with the underwear-selling plan (frankly it seems too net savvy to me for parents of a 14 yo, (but maybe they’re terribly young parents?)). What then? A teen with a modern take on the lemonade-stand-on-a-hot-day (albeit sweaty and with possibly questionable customers) should be able to exploit himself all he wants so long as it’s within law.
The parents should step aside completely. Also, they oughta be firm and realistic to their kids about economics: no more free rides on non-necessary expenses: pay your own way in the Great Recession. Duh. Then, if his lemonade stand, whatever form it might take, nets him some cash, then surely the kid paying his own way for concerts, music, fashion, WoW/monthly gamer subscription, etc can’t hurt THEIR financial troubles.
@174: Thanks! That’s a great compliment. And I won’t lose it anytime soon.
As far as rape vs. ravishment, I actually think of those as two different fantasies, though they’re related. Ravishment fantasies are more about wanting to be wanted and taken roughly and thoroughly. Rape fantasies are more about having sex forced upon you when you don’t want it. I’ve also heard rape play described as ‘nonconsent play.’ Though for some of us the criminal reference makes it hotter!
Good point about the LW’s son coming up with the idea; that actually makes a lot of sense.
When I was in highschool it was just “noncon”
@171, 172, 167: Got it, thanks, makes sense. Though I don’t think you’re an “asshole” for making sure something doesn’t trigger or traumatize you.
@169: I agree that sensitivity and not being a douche are important, though I don’t think that rape victims are necessarily delicate flowers who require months of hesitancy before asking if they’re into something. I’d even guess that rape victims are more likely to be into rape play than the average person, though of course many are not.
Though if you’re meeting kinky partners online, a lot of this is upfront anyway since people write what they’re into on their profile page.
So.. as someone who is into age play, and prefers to be the “child” in the game, I can say that my turn-on has nothing to do with pedophilia. For me, it is about power from below, about being taken care of, acting innocent, and about being able to act out in a bratty way. It’s fun! Plus, I love the outfits and pigtails that I would never wear as an adult. I am lucky to have a GGG husband, who is willing to indulge me now and again, and who finds his own fun in spanking, and teaching/training, and rewards, even tho the age play squicks him a bit. BDSM is very often more about what the sub wants. ( He gets his, too.. 😉 ) I have no attraction to my own father, or to actual children.. or even to other people pretending to be children. It’s all about expressing my inner child, who was a randy and frustrated little thing.
@177 – I was more interested in the order of events (find out about past rapes/abuse, then bring up rape-play/age-play), and not how long it should take to move through those stages.
PORTLAND – I say, fake, Fake, FAKE, fake!
I think it’s written by someone with a ‘sweaty, acrid’ clothes fetish.
The language seems off, and Playboy-letters like.
Note the use of “Dear Wife” and “Would this be seen as me whoring out *the boy*?”.
That one slipped the gate.
I call fakey-mcfakerson on Portland.
The language is odd, and reads like a playboy letter. Sounds like someone with an ‘acrid-sweat’ fetish getting really into his fantasy.
Seriously, “Dear Wife”? And not ‘my son’, but “Would this be seen as me whoring out *the boy*?”
Fake, fake, slipped the gate.
@180: I really don’t think that’s a good idea. For one thing, as I said, people’s fetishes and turn-ons are often online, or discussed upfront, before having that kind of deep personal conversation. You should be upfront with your turn-ons, and you should talk about them early on.
For another, a lot of people would be annoyed or not want to talk about it out of the blue in response to asking if they’ve been sexually assaulted, especially if you’re having the initial conversation about sex and fetishes and so forth.
I just don’t think it’s something that requires that much sensitivity: you’re just asking if your partner is into something, which you should be able to do freely. Can you give me an example of how the kind of conversation you propose would go? It seems like it would be awkward.
@Hunter
he isn’t, he’s making a joke
@Blackrose/Erica
I think the sensitivity is required on the occasions where they aren’t into it. Mr. J’s response was – in my eyes – an example of a somewhat insensitive response. If someone reacts negatively to an age-kink it doesn’t mean they’re a bad person or even close minded, it might just be upsetting for them.
I don’t think that it’s really feasible to leave off your “I’m into age play” conversation until after a conversation about sexual abuse. That’s not something that’s easy to bring up, even in an LTR. So if you wanted to have the other conversation first and test the waters you might have to wait for quite a while into the relationship before you start probing. Doesn’t seem logical to me, but everyone’s different.
I think the kink scene’s all cards on the table up front model is actually really ideal. I consider myself neither vanilla nor kinky since vanilla implies that I won’t engage in kink and kinky means I have kinks of my own. Being open is always good.
@cocky
Agreed. This is a HUGE petpeeve of mine too. If someone’s into 17-year-olds or even 13-year-olds it doesn’t matter how old they are, they are NOT pedophiles. You could say “ephebophile” if the teen is somewhat older and post pubescent, or “hebephile” if they’re pubescent. I’m not expecting people to use all technical terms correctly (there’s special terms for people attracted to babies/toddlers too, I believe) but at least don’t call someone a pedophile for being attracted to a post-pubescent teenager, that’s just stupid.
As a furry, I’m amazed that this particular column dealing with my ilk managed to come forward with an EVEN MORE MESSSED UP THING concerning selling your 14 year old son’s underwear. Eeeek.
@185 – yes, you’re right, people differ in their reactions to abuse/rape. The assault I experienced at 17 was redefined/erased/forgotten except that for many years I disliked receiving oral sex. But the assault I experienced this year is the first thing I bring up when someone suggests that rape-play might be fun. So, yes, I guess there’s not going to be a standard way of dealing with this issue.
@187
Absolutely – you brought it up. Which I think is smart, by the way. Also, you brought it up in response to the kink. I think Blackrose was just saying she couldn’t imagine how the kink-haver could go about asking ‘hey have you been raped?’.
I’ve never come across anyone who’s asked me to do… well… much of anything kinky really. Your standards, but definitely no ‘age play’. Again, probably because it’s not necessary.
@Hunter – a) what do you mean by “even if only self proclaimed” ??? If I don’t get to say what my orientation is, then who does? Who picked your orientation labels for you? I can say “orientation” is not the same as “behavior” until I’m blue in the face and I don’t think you’ll ever get it. A behavior may be “microsexual” or “semi-sexual” or full out “sexual” but engaging in it does not change the person’s orientation. A straight woman engaging in an act of any-level-sexual does not necessarily make the woman a lesbian. How about sex workers who are lesbians but who take on male clients? Gay men who marry and have sex with women because that’s what they think they’re supposed to do or to hide their orientation? Since “asexual” isn’t a commonly understood or discussed orientation a lot of aces find themselves trying to be straight, and then maybe gay, hoping to find something that feels right… obviously with little success. Meanwhile, I’m a graduate student in human sexuality… what exactly was your area of study? I think it was BlackRose who pointed out a point I was going to make in regard to your comment about asexuals being rape victims: people who are ignorant about the LGBT community often make the same claim about lesbians – “of course they were naturally supposed to be straight but then they got raped and it fucked them up and now they’re into women! Poor lesbians!” Can a person’s sexuality be effected by a traumatic experience like rape? Of course it can… but I don’t hear “oh, you’re Gay? OMG, who molested you as a child? Was it your uncle??” Traumatic experiences aren’t actually the MOST COMMON influencing factors on sexuality, go figure!
@BlackRose – yes, thank you for making the point that asexuals have sex drives/libidos of varying levels just like people of other orientations.
@BlueJean – I’m sorry about how things have gone with your husband, obviously this is a terrible situation for you. What he has done is not okay and the only way I can even try to understand it is to think of it in the same way that gay men (and lesbians) used to marry because that was what was expected, it wasn’t okay to be gay and so they married to show that they weren’t… leaving no one happy. I have been able to make my relationships work with my non-ace partners reasonably well because I’m non-monogamous and generally I date others who are also non-monogamous so that everyone can get what they need. There are some excellent books on the subject – I particularly recommend Dossie Easton’s the Ethical Slut and Tristan Taormino’s Opening Up. I realize that non-monogamy isn’t an option for everyone, but if you’re already having affairs perhaps it would be a healthy alternative to you feeling like you’re cheating and your husband feeling cheated on (surely he has an idea).
dammit, edit: “a woman engaging in an any-level-sexual act with another woman”
Oh, and @Uncelestial – the idea that a person isn’t interested in sex because they haven’t had it yet is the gateway thought process to corrective rape. I have read written accounts from aces who said that they were already out and openly ace and eventually had a partner who was sure they were going to “fix” them by having sex with them… Guess how well that worked. Let’s play a game where we apply your assumptions about aces to people of other orientations: How about straight men are only straight because they haven’t had sex with a man yet… and even the ones who did try out having sex with a man and decided it wasn’t their thing… well, they obviously need to keep having sex with men until they realize they are actually bi or gay. Sounds TOTALLY REASONABLE, right?
And back to Hunter: If you want to play the “the plural of anecdote is data” game: I know two people who were sexually assaulted, neither of which is ace and I’ve met a lot of aces who have stated in one place or another that they were not raped (because you know what’s fun, having to disclose if you’ve been raped or not every time you tell someone your orientation) and while there are a lot of aces who I don’t know about their status as an assault survivor I assume their numbers are about the same as the general population… but the only accounts I’ve read about were people who already identified as ace before they were assaulted (see above).
@188: Yeah, it just seems like a weird jump to ask a partner if they’ve ever experienced sexual assault, and then switch to bringing up the kink.
Even if it’s in a later conversation, I don’t like the idea that some kinks are “bad” or “extra sensitive” and need to be brought up carefully just to talk about them. There’s already too much of that attitude towards kinks. I have had negative reactions to some of mine and don’t always bring them all up right away out of fear (that and listing them all would take a long time 😉 ).
I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong to ask someone if they have experienced sexual assault, but that’s a personal conversation that should be separate from, and come well after, the initial conversation about what kinks people are into. Unless the assault victim brings it up earlier, which is a good idea if they’re comfortable with doing so.
As far as age play, I know it’s not the only kind, but I generally think of it as explicitly talking about someone being a specific age (typically much younger than they actually are) during sex, such as saying “fuck your X year old girl.” Even if someone is young looking it can still be hot for some people to talk about pretend ages specifically, as a type of role-playing, which is why a lot of underage erotic fiction makes a point of bringing up people’s ages often. It’s the same way that interracial erotic fiction brings up people’s races often, because it’s a turn-on for some people.
@153: Being dishonest is never acceptable. My condolences. I’m asexual myself (by some definitions, although the details are vastly more complicated) and I decided early on that there was no way I’d get in a relationship that wasn’t with another asexual, for exactly that reason.
@115: That’s not my experience. But I suppose the plural of “anecdote” is not data. Still, I’m reluctant to talk about asexuality because it always seems to come around to exactly that assumption — that I was somehow sexually traumatized as a child or something. Whatever. I am how I am, it works for me, and I don’t need other people to try to fix me.
@Blackrose
“I don’t like the idea that some kinks are “bad” or “extra sensitive” and need to be brought up carefully just to talk about them.”
sometimes things are true, even if we don’t like them 😉
My point wasn’t that people should be extra-sensitive in terms of not bringing them up or even trying to not bring them up to certain people. I’m with you that people should be open, I want to know my partner’s kinks especially if they’re something that’s off-putting to me.
(And I do think I’m allowed to drop a partner for a kink or for whatever other reason I like. I’ve dropped guys for lots of reasons others consider finicky or trivial. I know what I like.)
My point was that people should be sensitive to the rejection of their kink. Maybe the person has a legitimate reason to be uncomfortable with it. Even extremely so. If someone freaks out over your foot fetish, that’s probably just them being unreasonable, but if someone freaks out over being asked to enact a pedophilic fantasy… well, maybe they have a reason. Not because they hate you. Not because they think your kink is “wrong” but because of personal experiences.
I brought it up because I got a very negative response from a poster when I said I would be put off by the suggestion of age-play and I think that was an unfair response.
I think kinks that potentially involve people reliving trauma are by nature, “extra-sensitive” but I’m not conflating that with the kink being any less okay.
@194: I understand what you mean, and I agree you are allowed to drop a partner for any reason or no reason. And yes, people should understand that some people, for whatever reason, can’t handle certain kinks, and that’s ok.
I think that the reason you got negative responses from me and from other posters is that your reaction seemed extreme. If you can’t handle X, and your partner brings up X, and you say “I can’t handle X” and your partner says “that’s ok, we can do other things”… well, yes, you are allowed to drop him, it’s just that it doesn’t seem reasonable to me to do so. Not that you always have to be reasonable or fair, but it’s a little unfair to a partner who is being open and understanding about your boundaries.
I’ll be sensitive to the rejection of my kinks, and be willing to respect people’s boundaries, but I don’t think it would be fair or reasonable for someone to dump me for just mentioning a kink. But again, you don’t have to be fair or reasonable, and you do have the right to dump someone at any time.
“Dog collars seem like a heavy activity for a lad, Dan”
Tell that to all the Hot Topic mallgoths.
@195
This might sound like a trivial distinction, but I wouldn’t (in theory) dump someone for mentioning it, I would dump them for having it and only because it suggests possibilities I’m not entirely comfortable with.
The idea being that bringing up kinks (even ones I’m not into) is totally cool, and I don’t endorse at all the idea that someone should hide or be ashamed of their kinks or that it’s ever better for a relationship for that to happen. I’m not in the “bad kinks should be kept to yourself” camp.
I guess in my ideal world people are comfortable enough with themselves to reveal their kinks even IF it might be a dealbreaker for their partner.
@rand
I’ll tell them as soon as I can fire up the time machine and visit them in the late 90’s when they still existed?
@cocky
scroll up?
Someone into catholic schoolgirls (we’re talking highschool, right?) is unlikely to be a pedophile because highschool girls are postpubescent. My discomfort is with someone who would want me to simulate sex with a prepubescent girl.
Not 99% of straight men.
I’m not sure what the percentage of pedophiles is but it’s pretty low (count in hebephiles and it gets higher, but still, nowhere near 99%)
I can rock the schoolgirl outfit no problem. I love a good kilt.
P.S. I won’t fuck 99% of straight men anyway, so… shrug?
@200: Wait, what? Even in the context of roleplaying/age play? You feel the same way about fantasies of raping someone? This doesn’t make sense to me… you understand that fantasies are not always things that people would act out for real, right?
If you dump anyone who’s ever had a “bad”/illegal/disturbing fantasy, you’re not gonna have that many people left.
@cocky
we’re 100% on the same page, it’s nice to see.
@197: But if they didn’t mention something that turned them on, and thus you didn’t know about it, it wouldn’t matter. Someone having a kink that you don’t like doesn’t affect you in any way.
I don’t think people should be open about their kinks if it means they will get dumped or rejected. If I were dating someone who said “If my partner were into kinks X, Y, Z, I would dump him,” I wouldn’t reveal those kinks if I had them. Why would I? Their existence doesn’t do any harm, and people don’t have the right to know everything in their partners’ heads so they can decide what they don’t like.
Cocky said he’d be irrevocably turned off if his partner revealed some kinks… isn’t that a bad thing? If you had a good relationship, and you stopped being attracted to the person even when you WANTED to still be attracted, seems like you wouldn’t want to know those kinks.
Basically: it’s not fair to dump someone just for having a kink. Since you have the right to do that, your partner also has the right to keep his/her kinks private for fear of being dumped. People should only be open about their kinks if they will not suffer any penalty for revealing them.
Blackrose, I was with you up to this post.
First of all, I’m not with you on the “what you don’t know won’t hurt you” premise, but if that’s what you believe then there’s not really any way I can get you to see eye to eye.
On the rest of it… I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship where I hid something from someone for fear of them dumping me and I don’t think anyone with healthy self-respect would. Having a kink (or, as we’re implying, orientation) such as the one we’re discussing is not inherently immoral. But I do believe that hiding something that your partner would dump you for so that they don’t dump you is immoral.
And condescending.
I generally won’t date or sleep with a guy if his body fat percentage exceeds that of my glass of milk. That’s not really fair either, but hey, I may date whomever I please, and so may cocky.
So to answer your question, yes of course I would still want to know about those kinks. Two reasons…
1. I strongly believe in honesty in relationships. No honesty? No relationship. See above.
2. There’s no perfect world where secrets can be perfectly kept. “Oh I’m going to cheat on my wife and she’d be devestated if she found out but she WON’T find out so it’s okay”. As long as there is human error there’s no guarantee that you can keep any secret from someone forever.
@205 and 206
I think there is a pretty big difference in what the 2 of you are saying.
@BlackRose, I absolutely agree that it seems silly to dump someone over something they’re into. But this is assuming that it is an INTEREST, and not a REQUIREMENT. What mydriasis seems to be saying (and please correct me if I’m wrong), is that she wouldn’t want to date someone with these kinks because she feels that, whether they state that they are ok going without them, eventually they will want to act on them and she would be uncomfortable with that.
It seems that we’re back on the difference between kink and fetish. But I think it goes further than that. Just because something isn’t a fetish, doesn’t mean its not a requirement.
For example, I’m into somewhat rough sex. Can I get off without it? Absolutely. Would I be happy in a relationship with a person who was only capable of gentle sex? No way in hell. Yes, I can enjoy gentle sex, but if that was my only option, I wouldn’t be able to stay. So, I certainly wouldn’t consider it a fetish. I’d consider it a kink perhaps. But it is a requirement, at least a bit.
Counterpoint. Once when fooling around with an ex we both (don’t ask me how) slipped into an accent. It was kinda hot at the time, but never happened again. Would I be willing to do it again if it came up? Sure. Will I never enjoy sex again if I find out it can’t possibly happen again? Nope. Still good.
So I think the idea is more along the lines of, “Will this person feel cheated if I can’t accommodate this interest?” If there was something someone was into that I knew I could never do, even being assured that they were ok going without, I might be concerned. What if it’s more important to them than they thought? What it, after going without for a long time, they realize just how important it is? Will they need to go outside the relationship for this (which would be a concern in monogamous relationships only, of course)?
So I can understand why mydriasis might feel the need to just end things then and there with someone who is interested in something she’s definitely not. It CAN become an issue down the line. Its hard to decide what’s worse, giving up someone with a kink you don’t like who may have ended up the love of your life, or giving yourself the opportunity to love that person, only to have your heart broken when they realize their kink is more important than you?
Personally, I’ll try a lot of things, but everyone draws a line somewhere. That’s just where she draws hers. I think it’s awesome how open you are to everything BlackRose, but people like you are fairly rare, I think.
@197: “I’ll tell them as soon as I can fire up the time machine and visit them in the late 90’s when they still existed?”
I can still see glimpses at Westlake and in the Juggalo-spawn.
@207: But that just seems like being misinformed. I understand dumping someone if your sexual needs are incompatible. But if you told someone you were dating that accent story, and they dumped you because they didn’t like accents and they were worried you might someday need them to get off, wouldn’t you think that they were just not understanding the situation correctly and getting the facts wrong? A random thing that turns you on once in a while will not just turn into a full-blown fetish.
@206: You seem to be confusing thoughts and actions. If you cheat on someone and don’t tell them, you’ve done something wrong and dishonest. Then you’re hiding something and keeping a secret.
If you have a random thought that your partner would irrationally dump you for, then it’s a different story. Not revealing every thought that comes into your head is not “hiding” something or keeping a secret. Do you tell your partner every single thing you think? Even if it’s a mean or unpleasant thought and you know it would offend them?
I don’t think “what you don’t know won’t hurt you,” I think that an undisclosed random thought in your partner’s head that does not affect you in any way won’t hurt you. Again, there is no duty to tell someone you’re dating every fantasy that pops into your head and every weird or crazy thought you have. This is very different from cheating.
Ideally, I’d want a relationship where we could be totally honest too. But I believe that honesty and full disclosure require a great deal of trust. And part of that trust is the agreement to be reasonable and not end the relationship over something irrelevant. Ending a relationship over cheating is perfectly reasonable; ending it over a private fantasy isn’t. You can have honesty, or you can exercise your right to end a relationship over something minor, but you can’t have both.
By the way, I think it’s perfectly fair and reasonable to have physical standards for your partners. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with requiring a certain body fat percentage, or dumping someone because their body changed. Though I’m curious: less than a glass of milk? That’s 3% or so, right? Is that even physically possible? And do you insist on regular weigh-ins to make sure they maintain it?
@207: “Its hard to decide what’s worse, giving up someone with a kink you don’t like who may have ended up the love of your life, or giving yourself the opportunity to love that person, only to have your heart broken when they realize their kink is more important than you?”
Wouldn’t you find that out, either way?
@Blackrose
Your idea that there is something objectively “reasonable” to expect or not expect isn’t fully rational in my mind. People have their expectations, sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. I’ve certainly lived up to certain requests others might call ‘unreasonable’ too. That’s love, sometimes.
I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship where I worried that disclosing a thought (ANY thought) would get me dumped, but that’s never been the case. If I thought that something about my inner workings would end the relationship, I wouldn’t want to be in that relationship, I would end it. I certainly wouldn’t conceal thoughts I had (erotic or otherwise) for fear of losing the relationship. Once I conceal something, the relationship is already robbed of it’s intimacy for me, which is pretty much equally as bad as the relationship being over.
If you’re talking about the random thought of being sexual with someone prepubescent popping into the person’s head, no I wouldn’t dump them after that. A lot of us have things pop into our head that we wouldn’t do. Every time I’m on a balcony, the urge to jump pops into my head. (Have at it, Hunter) But that’s not the same as a fantasy that a person has a desire to simulate whether or not they’re willing to give it up.
Re: body fat
I was being somewhat snarky, but I honestly find myself put off by squishiness on a male body.
“Essential” body fat for men is allegedly 3%. So I’d imagine it IS possible, although in practice I’m sure I really go more towards the 5% range.
Basically if you can’t tell the difference between not saying “I fantasize about fucking little children” and not saying “God, I hate that shirt” then I don’t think I can help you.
Although the underage son’s sweaty undies screams bad parenting, it gave me an idea. I’m an of-age redheaded female with a moist va-jj…I wonder how much I could make selling my panties!!! Laws aside, supporting some guy or gal’s undie sniffing kink doesn’t strike me as amoral.
@213: At least a few hundred a week, especially with some R- or X- rated pics included. Try craigslist or backpage.
Except for the possible charge of fraud (and what perv is gonna call the BBB?) why not sell panties/gym clothes that YOU wore, or, better yet, your dog wore for a run and you later rubbed an anchovy on???