I’m in a bad place. I have been in a monogamous marriage for 19 years and have two kids. At least I think we’re still monogamous. My husband is an avid reader of your column and loves to bring up the idea that it is perfectly normal to have outside sexual relationships with other people as long as you stay committed to your spouse.
We started our marriage saying that we would always be truthful and faithful to each other. I’m GGG, he probably gets more blowjobs than most married men, and I love having sex with him. He is far less likely to initiate sex than I am (which makes me think he is spending time with someone else). If one partner decides that they need outside activity, regardless of how much sex they get at home, is it okay to go ahead and do that without informing the partner they made a monogamous commitment to? He thinks if my needs are being met, then I have nothing to complain about. My main need is for honesty, and it doesn’t feel like that need is being met.
When I ask him if he is having affairs, he gets angry and accuses me of being insecure and immature. (I would like to know if I’m at risk of getting a sexually transmitted infection.) He says you agree with him that it is okay to lie if the other person has their needs met and doesn’t find out. I am at my wit’s end and am deeply unhappy and think about leaving him, but I don’t want to end a relationship that works in so many other ways.
Lonely At Home
Before I can answer your question, LAH, give me a second to spit out all the words your husband has stuffed into my mouth.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhcckk—p’toooo.
Okay, LAH, here’s a little something I recently wrote that sums up my position on outside sexual relationships: “Cheating is permissible when it amounts to the least worst option, i.e., it is allowed for someone who has made a monogamous commitment and isn’t getting any at home (sick or disabled spouse, or withholding-without-cause spouse) and divorce isn’t an option (sick or disabled spouse, or withholding-without-cause-spouse-who-can’t-be-divorced-for-some-karma-imperiling-reason-or-other) and the sex on the side makes it possible for the cheater to stay married and stay sane. (An exception can be made for a married person with a kink that his or her spouse can’t/won’t accommodate, so long as the kink can be taken care of safely and discreetly.)”
As you are not sick, disabled, or withholding without cause, LAH, and as your husband doesn’t have a kink that he’s outsourcing to spare you, please tell your husband on my behalf that I think he’s a cheating piece of shit, a word-stuffing douchebag, and an emotionally abusive asshole. Mr. LAH may read my column avidly, but his behavior and lame rationalizations indicate that he’s also reading it selectively. If your husband walked into my office, LAH, I would be tempted to slap him with my laptop.
It is, of course, perfectly normal for people who’ve made monogamous commitments to want to have outside sexual relationships. It’s perfectly normal to daydream about fucking other people, to masturbate to thoughts of fucking other people, to check out other people who you would be fucking if (1) you weren’t in a monogamous relationship, and (2) they wanted to fuck you. And it’s perfectly ridiculous the way people make themselves miserable scrutinizing their partners for evidence that they want to fuck other people. (Jealous types, please note: Your partner sometimes thinks about fucking other people, just like you sometimes think about fucking other people. Going ballistic over a little discreet and considerate porn use or meaningless flirting is an idiotic waste of your time, it’s unfair to your partner, and I consider it grounds for DTMFA’ing your ass.)
That said, LAH, it is perfectly obnoxious to go ahead and fuck other people in violation of a monogamous commitment unless you have grounds. And while it doesn’t sound like your husband has grounds, it certainly sounds like he’s fucking other people. I suspect that your husband is fucking someone you know—a coworker, a neighbor, a friend, a relative (shudder)—and, realizing that it’s only a matter of time before you find out, he’s bullying you into retroactively giving him permission to fuck other people and unfairly dragging me into it.
In your shoes, LAH, I’d be thinking about DTMFA. Not because of the cheating—monogamy isn’t important to me—but because of the lying and the bullying.
I grew up masturbating in the digital age. So in any given week, I get off on “Wincest,” hypnosis porn, and erotic literature involving cat people. I’m also a young husband who’s gone a few years past your recommended date for laying down his kink cards. I’ve been deliberating whether to out myself to my wife, but there’s a rub: The last time she found out I had masturbated to someone other than her, she hit me. I cried and swore I would never look at porn again. Of course I just became more careful about hiding it.
Is there a limit on the necessitated disclosure of my wet dreams? I don’t have to tell her the one where I’m having sex with her best friend while she, having been turned into a dog, looks on stupidly, right? Can I settle for “I masturbate to women who aren’t you”?
Wife Abusive, Not Kinky
Fuck full disclosure, WANK. Your wife can’t deal with you masturbating about others and she hits you? DTMFA.
I’m a 50-year-old married man with adult children. My wife and I live under the same roof but sleep in separate bedrooms. We have become roommates. Perhaps we will stay together, or perhaps we’ll divorce once the housing market improves and we have a slightly bigger pie to cut in half. But we hardly talk and never have sex. Where does a man in my situation find women to have sex with and spend time with? I don’t mean an escort or a hooker. It’s not all about the sex act for me. I tried some websites like AshleyMadison.com and SugarDaddy.com with no luck. Do you think there are women out there who are single or divorced and would enjoy being treated like a queen by a healthy, respectful, decent-looking man who is technically married?
Please Help Me
I know there are women out there who would be up for what you have to offer, PHM, because I get letters from them all the time. Some of these women are in the same boat you are—married in name only and looking for some companionship and intimacy. If you didn’t find one during your first internet search, my advice is to keep looking.
And Mr. and Mrs. LAH? PHM’s situation is a good example of a circumstance under which cheating is not only permissible, it’s not even cheating. He may be married, technically and legally, but the sexual dimension of his marriage is over. He is in no way betraying his wife, or putting her at risk of acquiring a sexually transmitted infection, when he seeks outside sexual relationships.
Can you see the difference between what you’re doing, Mr. LAH, and what PHM is doing?
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
Okay, Giddy, I think I understand what’s happening:
You are using the word “fantasy” to mean a specific sexual act that one intends to realize. So that looking at porn or being aroused by the thought–momentarily–of another person doesn’t count as fantasizing, if the sexual energy it produces is channeled back into the monogamous relationship.
Is that it?
If not, do you really mean that you consider the act of masturbating to the idea of someone who is not your partner, even if the person doing the masturbating would never consider actually acting out the scenario or having sex with anyone but his or her monogamous partner to be close to betrayal? Yes, I understand that you gave an example of someone who masturbates at the expense of having sex with his/her partner, but what if that’s not happening?
To me, the word “fantasy” has in it the element of the un-realizable, either by necessity (many of my fantasies involve me being someone I’m not, in a situation that doesn’t and can’t exist) or by choice (I may think about that cute barista either when I’m masturbating or even occasionally when I’m having sex with my partner, but I’m not going to try and make that coupling happen). Since I would never or could never make my fantasies come true, I take issue with the idea that they could be even close to an act of betrayal.
If, however, I thought of a “fantasy” as something I want to happen that just hasn’t happened yet but which I will try to make happen, then I could see your point.
I know that I don’t share the same definition of “fantasy” as a lot of people, and maybe that’s the source of the disagreement here.
PHM, both the websites you mentioned are sugar-daddy/sugar-baby hookup sites. You say you want intimacy, not an escort, but that isn’t what that relationship is about. Maybe you should look at Adult Friend Finder or OkCupid!. But I think it’s a bit hypocritical–not to mention unrealistic–of you to restrict your search to single or divorced women when you are not fully available. A woman who is in the same boat as you, married, but unfulfilled, might be easier to find, given your situation and limitations. I think that what you have to offer a single woman sounds like a for-hire relationship, and I’m not surprised that you’re not finding what you’re looking for. Additionally, the term “treated like a queen” is offensive to a lot of women.
@49: Yeah, giddy, you aren’t expressing yourself very well here. Are you saying that masturbating– or masturbating while thinking of someone else– is betrayal? Because that’s not really a “big fucking difference” from your original “fantasizing about fucking others feels like a small step away from betrayal” point.
Assuming you’re still fucking your partner regularly, of course.
Erica (@21) has provided the only good advice to one of the letter writers today- Dan included.
LAH may want to try laying it out on the table what she wants- is it monogomy or honesty before DTMFA. There is not enough in these letters to say HE is being an emotionally abusive or cheating POS. Unless he is a trucker, a politician or a rocker on the road I have always wondered how it is possible to carry on an affair without the wife finding out. You could try blowing him every night and see if you can detect the tangy flavor of POS. cheating POS’s usually @#!*% their spouse MORE, not less, when they are engaging in an affair.
Likewise she freaks out and hits him when she catches him jacking to porn is hardly grounds to break up a marriage. Context people! Maybe she wanted it in her rather than in front of the computer and he ignored her needs? Constant @#!*% about a habit may be grounds but one incident? Please Dan. Is that what you think of marriage? Then this is precisely why so many conservatives oppose letting gay people marry. You devalue the institution with this advice.
Finally, for please help, the answer is there are TONS of women in your age bracket who are lonely and single who would do anything to find a man- even one who is technically married. The web cites problem is due to your profile I will bet. Once you fix your profile you need to get out in the wide, wide world and meet single (or married!) women. They outnumber you by a fair amount at your age. Try getting a cute new puppy and going to the dog park. Join an organization or club. Take a class.
Using porn to spice up your actual relationship is totally different than using it to get off in hidden ways, when you have a partner you could be doing it with.
I’m not clear on this, giddy–people in monogamous relationships should only enjoy porn/fantasies/masturbation if their partner is involved? I’m happily monogamous, but sometimes I like a little alone time. So does my boyfriend. If you’re avoiding sex with your partner but wanking up a storm, sure, that’s a problem…but when partners have healthy sex lives, what’s the problem with masturbating alone with porn/fantasies?
I realize I may have misunderstood your comment; my apologies if I did.
I am someone who never thinks about fucking anyone other than my partner. The few times when I tried to do it purposefully, I couldn’t get off until I turned my thoughts back to my partner. Just sayin’
>> “I’m GGG, he probably gets more blowjobs than most married men …”
Heh. If he’s cheating, I’d suspect so.
How many blowjobs do most married men get, anyway? I always figured married guys were getting blown more often than unmarried guys, in most cases. That’s certainly the case in the decade I’ve been married. Proximity creates opportunities.
LAH’s letter makes me realize that I’ve been a CPOS since I started fucking another woman a couple of months ago. My wife just has never been interested in sex (especially with me, I fear) and even when she remembers to try it’s never momentous. Still, seeing LAH lay this out, I realize I’m wrong, even if she doesn’t suspect a thIng. And she doesn’t, because she doesn’t notice that I think about sex until I tell her.
But goddamn I’m happier than I’ve been in years. People notice–even she noticed that I was happy when she took a business trip a few weeks ago. And it’s translated well into my so-called sex life with her, too. Using protection with the other woman. I love being sexually desirable and powerful again. It’s been so very long.
I have some thinking to do; a small child is involved. But I love feeling this druglike euphoria, and I. don’t know if I can stop, even though it’s wrong.
Giddy, are you saying that every single time that you have sexual energy, that you must spend it with your partner or else suppress it? That’s an unrealistic expectation.
There are any number of times where your partner may be unavailable: sick, tired after a long day, doing something else, PMSing, just not in the mood. If they don’t want it, they have every right to decline to participate with you, but they don’t have the right to tell you to just shut it down. Likewise, you have just as much right to decline to participate with them. Your private time is your own, to do with as you see fit. Your partner does not get to say that your private time is your own only so far as you are doing things that they approve of. (“Honey, you are allowed to read a book or clean the toilets on your own time, but if you use it to look at porn, you are in trouble.” That’s a lot of syllables for “Hand over your testicles, I’ll keep them in my purse.”)
If you are consistently avoiding your partner in preference to masturbation, there is a real problem there — but the problem is that you are failing to take care of your partner, not that you are somehow “cheating” by taking care of your own needs alone. It isn’t cheating until you actually involve somebody other than your partner. As long as it stays inside the confines of your own brain, it’s nobody’s business but your own. Any partner who expects to have a say over what goes on inside somebody else’s skull is a massive control freak.
“To quote: “Jealous types, please note: Your partner sometimes thinks about fucking other people, just like you sometimes think about fucking other people.”
Honestly, I don’t.”
Then the advice doesn’t apply to you.
Advice to WANK: Hie thee to a marriage counselor, you and that abuser you married. She desperately needs to hear from a neutral party a very strongly worded, “Wait, you physically attacked him? For THAT?!?! Lady, you need serious professional help.”
Regarding disclosure (assuming you don’t take Dan’s advice and divorce her abusive ass): no, you do not owe her any sort of disclosure whatsoever at this point. She has demonstrated that she is not to be trusted with disclosures. If she wants to hear about your fantasies, make some shit up that you think will make her happy, and keep the actual contents of your own psyche to yourself, where it’s safe.
To amplify on 63: More importantly, it doesn’t matter whether _your_ sexual thoughts only ever involve your actual partner, and nobody else. Most of the rest of us have fantasies about other people, and you had better be prepared to deal with that fact without melting into a puddle (or going postal on your partner).
They are FANTASIES. That means they are IMAGINARY. If you are willing to screw up your ACTUAL relationship over imaginary scenarios, your grasp of reality and your priorities both need some serious adjustment.
That, and if you think you have the right to expect your partner’s fantasy life to work exactly like yours does, that indicates a serious case of self-entitlement and lack of boundaries. Your partner is not you. Your sovereignty over your partner ends well shy of the inside of his head.
(Previous two paragraphs not necessarily present in any given individual, together or separately. No disclaimers necessary if you don’t work that way.)
Having been a dude in a committed relationship, WANK, whose significant other went holy batshit ballsdeep crazy when something that disturbed her about me or our lives together and beat the crap out of me not once, but four times, I can only concur wholeheartedly with Dan on this one.
I don’t know you or her, I don’t know what the deal is with her, but it is NEVER okay to hit someone you love. Ever. Ever, ever, ever, ever.
Were the gender roles reversed fifteen thousand women would swarm to your front door and demand to beat the shit out of that abusive asshole of a husband with 2x4s and a long nail pounded through the end.
But since you’re a guy, you think, “Oh, well, I’m male, and it’s got to be okay, because I’m male. And she hit me because she was so frustrated and overwhelmed by her response blah blah blah blah”.
I was 6’4″ and 250lbs, my abuser was a 105lb 5’1″ sopping wet gymnast who cracked my ribs one night. I never hit back or even tried to defend myself simply because who’d believe me? I’m huge, she’s tiny, she sports a black eye and I sport a few minor bruises along my ribcage where she pummeled me for ten minutes.
I filed assault charges against her; and a restraining order. Had I not done either of those things the cycle of abuse – mental and physical – would have continued. Later I dated a woman who punched me in anger once on the shoulder. She got a “never, EVER do that again” warning. The second time she was dumped hard.
You worry about your kinks; I worry about your acceptance of your wife’s violence and what that implies for your safety.
Frankly, DTMFA isn’t easy, and if you’re married, stating unequivocably that you will never, EVER stand for being hit in anger again, and giving her advanced warning that if she does for ANY reason, you’ll be gone, period, end of cycle, end of story, no do-overs, fin.
You might have a shot at rescuing the marriage and if you have to tone down your intense need for furry porn in the meantime, so be it, but you need to deal with the spousal abuse issue front-and-center first; the kink issue later.
@15 I couldn’t agree more. @11 may truly fantasize about her husband exclusively, but for her to believe (and require!) that her husband only fantasize about her is laughably naive.
(And yes, I’m assuming 11 is a woman, because there’s sure as shit no way it’s a gay man.)
@63: Personally I’m a hell of a lot more concerned about said wife’s reactions and WANK’s physical safety than any need of the wifey-poo to realize her actualized potential and sexual liberations of her husband.
Moreover, even if the wife in this situation goes, “Holy shit, I was abusing him? I have reformed my ways!” (which is highly unlikely; my theory is that if she’s that tightly wound about her husband’s kinks she’s going to ignore the whole “physical abuse” thing in favor of justifying her own actions based upon the fact he wanks it to other chicks / dog-headed versions of his wife with vapid expressions) it still doesn’t fix that breach of trust.
The marriage counselor is a prime idea, but the first step is for WANK to confront the wife with what she did and why it’s not okay. He stepped up and did what he needed to do.
If the marriage is going to work out it’s not just all on her self-actualization and realizations; WANK’s going to have to do some digging and some work as well, and one of those is going to have to be learning when to STFU and not blurt out “I fantasize about you having identical triplet sisters and shagging all three of you at once while wearing fun-fur leggings and Hello Kitty masks.”
Aside from that, knowing that WANK runs with /b/oards for his source material is a little disturbing.
LAH, when a man gets that defensive about potential cheating and flips it around on you like that, HE IS CHEATING. I’m sorry, but this is true. Mr. Savage here is correct that Mr. LAH is seeking your permission by bullying you into recognizing some made-up-truth about having sex outside one’s marriage being totally ok no-matter-what and shoving words into Mr. Savage’s mouth in order to justify his position.
LAH, your husband is a selfish, cheating, lying asshole who is putting not only your physical health, but your mental and emotional health at risk. If I were in your shoes, I’d get documentation of his cheating ways real fast and dump his sorry ass ASAP, suing for alimony and child support if possible/applicable. NEVER give him your permission and do not let him bully you into letting him live his disgusting lifestyle.
LAH, when a man gets that defensive about potential cheating and flips it around on you like that, HE IS CHEATING. I’m sorry, but this is true. Mr. Savage here is correct that Mr. LAH is seeking your permission by bullying you into recognizing some made-up-truth about having sex outside one’s marriage being totally ok no-matter-what and shoving words into Mr. Savage’s mouth in order to justify his position.
LAH, your husband is a selfish, cheating, lying asshole who is putting not only your physical health, but your mental and emotional health at risk. If I were in your shoes, I’d get documentation of his cheating ways real fast and dump his sorry ass ASAP, suing for alimony and child support if possible/applicable. NEVER give him your permission and do not let him bully you into letting him live his disgusting lifestyle.
@61, wearing condoms with your girlfriend is not adequate for protecting your wife. Condoms are not 100% protection. Either wear condoms with both, or tell your wife about the new risk to her health and let her decide what she wants to do about it. What’s the worst that could happen? You both have to downscale your expenses to support two households, but you have a chance to find a partner who is sexually compatible with you.
Dan, have to disagree on any “cheating is permissible” loopholes. You seem to think the ultimate concern is “saving” relationships. Shouldn’t the ultimate concern be consent and respect? There are health and emotional health issues at play. To “cheat” is not just to put another’s health at risk, but to steal from them the choice they’d make if they had all the information about their life. You’re robbing them of autonomy.
I’m all for non-monogamy and polyamory, and in fact tend to think it’s best to assume that all of one’s sexual partners may be having sex with other people, but, especially in monogamous relationships, there are no circumstances that, to my mind, would make “cheating,” or non-consensual non-monogamy, OK.
Dan, have to disagree on any “cheating is permissible” loopholes. You seem to think the ultimate concern is “saving” relationships. Shouldn’t the ultimate concern be consent and respect? There are health and emotional health issues at play. To “cheat” is not just to put another’s health at risk, but to steal from them the choice they’d make if they had all the information about their life. You’re robbing them of autonomy.
I’m all for non-monogamy and polyamory, and in fact tend to think it’s best to assume that all of one’s sexual partners may be having sex with other people, but, especially in monogamous relationships, there are no circumstances that, to my mind, would make “cheating,” or non-consensual non-monogamy, OK.
PHM, where’s the part about _how_ your relationship with your wife deteriorated to this pathetic state? And what have you done to try to fix it? Have you talked about this with her? Couples counseling? If not, why not? Does she refuse to do anything to make it better? Does she promise to do better and then lapses within the week? What has caused you to give up on your wife?
Also, what about negotiating to open things up?
Concerned commenters will want to know this before giving you the green light to discreetly cheat.
I’m really annoyed with the posters saying that all men fantasize about people other than their partners.
Men aren’t all crazed sex hounds. That stereotype is bullshit and it hurts everyone – men who don’t have a high sex drive feel unmanly, and women who ask a guy for sex and get turned down feel ugly and gross because, hey, if “guys will fuck anything that moves” then why won’t this guy fuck her?
PEOPLE. ARE. ALL. DIFFERENT. Some people – men and women – can be completely one-track-mind monogamous. Other people – men and women – have more of a need for variety, whether it’s through fantasies or actually fucking other people. Let’s stop the ridiculous gender pigeonholing, shall we?
@49/53: I think you, actually, are the person having a misunderstanding. For most of us, we can fantasize about other people without sexually neglecting our partners. You seem to think that sexually satisfying one’s partner and fantasizing about someone else are mutually exclusive activities, which I don’t think most of us believe to be the case. Perhaps the issue is just a semantic one, in which fantasizing about someone means masturbating to them in your mind, but that isn’t what most of us mean, I don’t think.
I say this as a person who doesn’t fantasize about having sex with men other than my boyfriend, but who understands that daydreaming isn’t anything like “a betrayal.” I mean, let’s be real: sometimes I fantasize about being a famous actress, but I don’t actually want to put in the work or give up my current aspirations just so that I could be famous enough that I’d get fan mail. It’s a “wouldn’t it be cool” kind of thought process, like make believe where you daydream about being a cowboy or something. I don’t think it’s really different.
First of all, Dan is a great advice columnist. But The God of Sex, he’s not. His pronouncements do not entitle anybody to break any prior promises they’ve made to their partner. So even if he had given everybody a free pass to fuck like bunnies, LAH’s husband could still be a CPOS.
Secondly, Dan, I’m kind of curious if you’ve thought this whole “unfulfilled kink” thing out to its logical consequences. How do you define “kink”? What if LAH’s husband’s kink happens to be orgies? That’s one that simply can’t be fulfilled in any monogamous marriage. And I’m not just being pedantic–my own kink happens to be threesomes. Lucky for me, my wife likes them too, so Dan’s “permission” is irrelevant.
Thirdly, anybody have any unicorn-finding tips?
@77 (long-time reader): my issue is the phrase “stay sane” that Dan tosses around as a justification for cheating.
As if not getting your sexual way will drive you insane.
And I’m speaking from the position of a former CPOS–but at least I wasn’t cloaking my actions in the self-justification of preserving my sanity.
I don’t know if it’s been said already in the comment thread, but I think it’s really important to qualify your statement on disability. It is NOT ok to go out and cheat if your only provocation is that your partner is disabled. Newsflash, we disabled folks like sex. We like honesty. Many of us are GGG to the best of our abilities, and many of our abilities kick “able” people’s abilities in the ass. I am disabled and queer, and although I have frequently thought about opening up my relationship with my partner, I would be devastated if she just went and cheated on me with someone else rather than discussing it with me.
Most disabled people who do withhold are withholding with very good cause. While I normally agree that it is better to open the relationship than loose an otherwise good thing, I object with as much energy as I have in my poor crippled (apparently sexless) body against this interpretation. It’s not ok to involve someone in a lifetime of marriage without sex, if sex was implicitly or explicitly promised at the point of getting hitched. However, after an accident, during chemo, on bad pain nights, or during flares, you do not have the right to go see someone else without asking us first. If you don’t sleep with other people while your wife is pregnant or menstruating, then don’t sleep with other people for similar uncontrollable body reasons.
I don’t know if it’s been said already in the comment thread, but I think it’s really important to qualify your statement on disability. It is NOT ok to go out and cheat if your only provocation is that your partner is disabled. Newsflash, we disabled folks like sex. We like honesty. Many of us are GGG to the best of our abilities, and many of our abilities kick “able” people’s abilities in the ass. I am disabled and queer, and although I have frequently thought about opening up my relationship with my partner, I would be devastated if she just went and cheated on me with someone else rather than discussing it with me.
Most disabled people who do withhold are withholding with very good cause. While I normally agree that it is better to open the relationship than loose an otherwise good thing, I object with as much energy as I have in my poor crippled (apparently sexless) body against this interpretation. It’s not ok to involve someone in a lifetime of marriage without sex, if sex was implicitly or explicitly promised at the point of getting hitched. However, after an accident, during chemo, on bad pain nights, or during flares, you do not have the right to go see someone else without asking us first. If you don’t sleep with other people while your wife is pregnant or menstruating, then don’t sleep with other people for similar uncontrollable body reasons.
@71 Sorry. I’m confused. If condoms don’t provide 100% protection than how would wearing one with his wife protect her where they failed him? Not that I’m defending him, he probably should have told her by now anyways.
WANK, do you have any idea how many nerd girls would fuck you just for being cool with Wincest? Dump the abusive bitch already.
PHM, don’t give up on Ashley Madison. My SO was on Ashley Madison for a few months before he found me. I, on the other hand, was on for five days. The odds are incredibly tilted toward women, but the right one will be out there. Keep looking.
@@ 71&81 – if condoms aren’t 100% preventative, using then more often will still increase the protection, even if it’s not 100%. Statistics and shit.
If I tell her, she walks. What I want, in the best possible world, is for her to enjoy fucking me. (yes, talked about it, yes, counseling, yes, listened). If I stop now, I can learn from this, though trust in the marriage is compromised. But I’m not sure I can.
Please don’t give up on Ashley Madison, PHM. Remember the odds are incredibly skewed toward women there. I had my profile up for five days and was overwhelmed by responses; my SO had his up there for months before we found each other. Persistence and hope is what you need. She’s out there, PHM, it will just take some time.
I think the first letter, while suspicious, isn’t enough to say the man is cheating. Want to find out for sure? Hire a private investigator.
Uh… well, I guess after slogging thru all the miserable and depressing letters, Dan’s gotta mix it up once in a while with a bizarre, implausible one like WANK’s. “Wincest” (bleargggh)- really? REALLY? At the risk of being shot down for gender stereotyping, the idea of a man reading Supernatural slash fanfiction on a weekly basis defies credibility. Humiliating as it is for me to have to acknowledge our responsibility for its sometimes extremely unsavory examples, this genre is almost exclusively by and for women.
In fact, WANK kinda put me in mind of “Bi Pantyhose Guy” from the 8/10/11 column, who Dan diagnosed as a dude into “feminization” or taking on on the “feminine role” for sexual kicks. Between the bromantic slash fic, the cat thing, the victimization, and the tears, this letter writer sure milked the platform this sex-advice column gave him for all it was worth to display himself in a female-coded light. If WANK is for real, then so is Raul (TV Without Pity Supernatural Forum in-joke).
@84 Thanks! I don’t go without them and I know their general shortcomings, but considering I’m only in my early 20s and it’s my only form of protection; better to ask and look a fool than miss out on some real world info.
I’m really sorry about your situation and I’m sorry for trivializing it for a chance to ask my own question. It sounds like you sincerely put your best efforts into your marriage and are taking steps to keep her safe despite your inability to inform her. I hope that you can find some peace and joy for yourself regardless of the outcome.
@84 – “What I want is for her to enjoy fucking me.” The odds are not good, and they are especially bad because you’re not remembering a past period of good, plentiful sex with her, but rather fantasizing that she might change into a vastly different person.
Tell her about the affair before she catches you — it will make a big difference in rebuilding the trust that will be necessary for co-parenting your kid after the divorce.
Or don’t tell her and ask her for a divorce, counting on her never learning that you cheated during the marriage.
@74 He wrote: “But we hardly talk and never have sex.” They’ve moved from spouses to friends to roommates who barely communicate. I think he has a moral right to look for sex elsewhere without keeping her informed.
@77 “anybody have any unicorn-finding tips?”
High-priced escorts.
@79 Dan has clarified in the past that he means a permanent disability that makes sex impossible, or nearly so, not a disability that sometimes gets in the way of sex or is temporary.
Why is PHM focused on a single or divorced women?
I date online and am seriously discouraged by all the married men looking for something on the side.
Could it be that single women are not intrested because he is married? I’m not interested in men who are married. I am interested in a relationship that might have a future, and a married man of any kind is a waste of my time.
PHM needs to search for other women in his category. The fact that he feels he has a right to both a wife and an unattached girlfriend speaks volumes.
Cheers, all the way around.
@87: There’s nothing implausible about a guy reading slash. Plenty of us do. It may be uncommon but it happens.
@77 & @78 – While I agree with Dan’s loopholes for celibate marriages and long term disabilities, I was surprised by Dan’s loophole for “unfufilled kink” too. If my wife was into something I couldn’t/wouldn’t accomodate (scat play, for example) she has the green light to do it behind my back?!? Unless she was explicit about the kink before marriage and I acknowledged I would accomodate it in some way, I don’t think the exception from CPOS applies.
Decrying possessiveness and jealousy as evil excrescences which must be repressed is as anti-human[e] as believing. that of lust or altruism (to cite the tenets of the Romish and Randish faiths).
It’s no surprise that many people tend to twist Dan’s words since he has often shouted that sex outside marriage is sometimes defensible; it definitely helps when he prints letters like LAH’s so he can clarify his stand on the matter.
And it must be overwhelmingly difficult to divorce after 19 years of marriage & 2 kids, but the bottom line is, she’s better off single than married to that asshole.
@84 — there is no marriage without trust. You are just a CPOS who wants to have his cake and eat it too. Perhaps Erika is right, that having your husband voluntarily confess is better than discovering it on your own. I wouldn’t know. I do know that the repeated lies, denials, and evasions have hurt far far worse than any sex act with another person could.
LAH should check out http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Infidelit… for a very supportive group of individuals who have experienced infidelity. Best of luck to her– it is a truly shitting position to be in.
LAH should check out http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Infidelit… for a very supportive group of individuals who have experienced infidelity. Best of luck to her– it is a truly shitty position to be in.
@93 “The fact that he feels he has a right to both a wife and an unattached girlfriend speaks volumes.”
Yes. Well said.
@99 “the repeated lies, denials, and evasions have hurt far far worse than any sex act with another person could”
Absolutely. And I’m sorry you are in such pain, Sad in Chicago.
Sorry double post :-/
@97: It’s more like possessiveness and jealousy are powerful emotions that can affect your life negatively, and that your life can be better if you learn ways of managing them. (The same is true for fear or anger or sadness.)
@93, 102: What the hell? Of course he has a “right” to look for whatever partners he wants and date whoever wants to date him. And yes, there are certainly single women who would be interested. It may be true that he’d have better luck with married women — I don’t know — but it’s certainly true he’d have better luck by looking at both married and unmarried women.
It’s ok for him to have standards and preferences. And since he’s been in a shitty situation with his last relationship, he needs to build up his self-esteem and enhance his sense that he is worthy of the kind of women he wants, not diminish it.