“When I was little, my mother had a talk with me about having a ‘public face,’ because not everyone would understand our family,” says Koe Sozuteki, a 20-year-old woman who grew up in a large poly household in Seattle. “That was a hard conversation to have in elementary school.”
Sozuteki has a bio mom, a bio dad, a stepmom, three other poly moms, “several other matriarchal women in the community who I think of as moms,” and an uncle. She also has a brother and half a dozen poly siblings—children she grew up with but is not related to by blood.
Sozuteki was teased in school about her family, she says, and she didn’t get much support from teachers.
“Back in the mid-’90s,” she says, “people just didn’t know how to approach it.”
One experience in particular sticks out in her memory. “In grade school, I had a friend over for a sleepover, and my father and mother were living together at the time, and my father had a partner downstairs—a date night, with his fiancée, now his wife,” recalls Sozuteki. “This friend had never been over before, and I was explaining how things worked in our household—mom might come out topless, dad had a date downstairs.”
When her friend’s parents asked their daughter how the sleepover went, she told them it was fine—and she also told them that Sozuteki’s household was “nudity-positive” and that her father had a date in the house who was not Sozuteki’s mother.
“She wasn’t allowed to come over to my house anymore,” says Sozuteki.
“People in poly relationships—particularly if they have kids—fear judgment and rejection,” says Quintus, an electrician who lives in Kitsap County with his wife and two daughters. “They fear being rejected by their friends, by their families. It’s why so many poly families are still closeted.”
Quintus and his wife Francisca, who have been poly for a dozen years, are the new heads of Polycamp, an annual summer retreat for local poly families. Polycamp began as a one-day picnic in Redmond and now takes place over four days at Millersylvania State Park outside Olympia.
Sozuteki attended her first Polycamp when she was 13. “We got to run around,” she says, “a passel of kids and teenagers, with a sense of freedom because we could be open as poly kids. It was great.”
While families with children were Polycamp’s original focus, Quintus and Francisca explain that Polycamp now strives to appeal to all poly people—”poly people with kids, poly people who can’t stand kids, and people who are single but identify as poly.”
So in addition to more traditional activities for families with young children—
canoeing, puppet-making classes, drum circles, and Frisbee golf—Polycamp now offers workshops for grown-ups. “We added some adults-only stuff,” explains Quintus, “things like life-drawing classes, a snuggle party, an adults-only variety show, a bondage workshop.”
Speaking as a parent myself—a sex-
positive, kink-positive parent—um… a bondage workshop? At a family camp? With kids running around?
“The adults-only workshops are held indoors, in specific cabins and shelters,” Quintus explains to me. “Kid-friendly activities are scheduled at the same time, so the kids are occupied whenever there’s an adults-only workshop or activity going on. We have chaperones; we have rules.”
What Polycamp may not have now, however, is a clear-eyed mission. “We try to appeal to all the different niches in the community,” Quintus tells me. “There’s a lot of overlap: There’s the kink community, the sci-fi community, the nature/granola/hippie community, the pagan community. We want to be a resource for everyone.” While Polycamp once was about meeting the needs of children whose parents were poly, Polycamp now wants to be all poly things to all poly people.
Quintus and Francisca’s daughters are about the same age that Koe Sozuteki was when she first started to attend Polycamp—and they face some of the same pressures that Sozuteki did.
“At school, they keep it private,” says Quintus. “We’ve told them it’s their choice whether they talk to their friends about it. They may receive some judgment or be teased, so it’s their choice. We’re involved in the poly community, so they have peers that they can talk to. They know there are other families like theirs.”
Quintus and Francisca were monogamous when they married and when they had their first child.
“I made a joke about
a threesome—half joking, half testing the waters—and Francisca said, ‘I’ve thought about it, maybe with a friend of mine,'” he says. “That was how we first started talking about it.”
Quintus says the couple didn’t jump right in, but gave it serious thought.
“It wasn’t just, ‘Hey, sweet, more vagina, let’s party!’ We talked about how we were going to handle jealousy, other partners, and being parents. Because we had kids—two by the time we did anything—we needed stability, so we decided we wanted a real girlfriend, someone who could be included in the family, someone who enjoyed children.”
In the 12 years they’ve been poly, Quintus and Francisca have had two long-term relationships with live-in girlfriends, women who became parental figures in the lives of the children but then moved on.
How do their children understand their parents’ relationship and their relationships?
“Children want to love and be loved,” says Quintus. “Children grasp the concept easily. As they’ve gotten older, we’ve explained that ours is not the traditional form that most relationships take. We’re not ashamed of our lifestyle. We’re open with family and friends. But they had a right to know that their family is unique.”
Sozuteki says she’s happy and that she’s grateful to have been “born into a tribe of intimate friends.”
After a long period of celibacy, Sozuteki’s bio mom is now involved in a quad.
“When I turned 7, my mother became celibate because she wanted to focus on me,” Sozuteki explains. “I was having a hard time when people my bio parents were dating came into my life and then left my life when things didn’t work out.”
Sozuteki identifies as poly—her first relationship, she notes, was a quad—but her closest sibling, her brother, is in a monogamous
relationship. She currently works at the Center for Sex Positive Culture, is studying to become a sex educator, and coined a widely embraced term in the poly community: “polycule.”
“I was in high school at the time,” she says, “and one day I started making a chart of what my family situation looked like. I wrote down names, drew lines between the names, how some bonds were strong, how some shifted, showing all the connections.”
Sozuteki was studying organic chemistry at the time.
“I finished the chart and thought, ‘Oh, my God—this looks like a molecule, like the diagrams in my biology textbook!’ It really helped me to understand my family.” 
Polycamp 2010 takes place Aug 26–29 at Millersylvania State Park. For more information, go to www.polycamp.org.
I’ve been poly since 1980 – before we had a catchy word for it. By early 90’s there began to be a self-identified community in Seattle, and I know many of the people involved in Polycamp. Unfortunately, Dan’s article highlights some of the arrogant cluelessness that sometimes passes for “open and honest”. This has nothing to do with Polyamory, and is simply a matter of everyday American self-centeredness.
If a school-aged child is bringing a friend over to visit, open nudity is not merely stupid, but shows an insulting lack of common human decency. Those who refuse to adjust for outsiders, especially children, may not be criminals, but I can’t understand why they would expect anyone’s respect.
Really sweet article. Didn’t know about poly camps. Thanks, Dan.
@1: I might agree with you more if the nudity seemed like it might have been the dad going around without pants. But a topless mom? Sounds like France.
I have never in my life seen anything good come of ‘poly.’ It ALWAYS ends with someone being hurt, broken, or betrayed.
Quintus here: Dan, ya did a great job with the article, but you missed the point of Polycamp’s mission- to be of service to the community as a whole. We still find it important to have a safe place for families with children to come, but didn’t want to just focus on that. As it says on the home page of our website:
“Polycamp is an event designed to build and enrich our community. We gather yearly for activities, camaraderie and companionship. We have activities and workshops that are for every member of our community. If you are new to poly, a veteran, single, in a poly family, monogamous but in a poly relationship, with kids or without, young or old, any sexual orientation, or even not poly but friendly- YOU ARE A PART OF OUR COMMUNITY and we want you to join us.
Our activities cover a broad range of interests. We have something for everyone. Classes for people new to poly and discussion groups and classes for those of us who have been around awhile, artistic workshops/classes, spiritual workshops, Tribal interests (drumming and belly dancing), music and dancing, nature, and so on…”
Quintus here: Dan, ya did a great job with the article, but you missed the point of Polycamp’s mission- to be of service to the community as a whole. We still find it important to have a safe place for families with children to come, but didn’t want to just focus on that. As it says on the home page of our website:
“Polycamp is an event designed to build and enrich our community. We gather yearly for activities, camaraderie and companionship. We have activities and workshops that are for every member of our community. If you are new to poly, a veteran, single, in a poly family, monogamous but in a poly relationship, with kids or without, young or old, any sexual orientation, or even not poly but friendly- YOU ARE A PART OF OUR COMMUNITY and we want you to join us.
Our activities cover a broad range of interests. We have something for everyone. Classes for people new to poly and discussion groups and classes for those of us who have been around awhile, artistic workshops/classes, spiritual workshops, Tribal interests (drumming and belly dancing), music and dancing, nature, and so on…”
Quintus here: Dan, ya did a great job with the article, but you missed the point of Polycamp’s mission- to be of service to the community as a whole. We still find it important to have a safe place for families with children to come, but didn’t want to just focus on that. As it says on the home page of our website:
“Polycamp is an event designed to build and enrich our community. We gather yearly for activities, camaraderie and companionship. We have activities and workshops that are for every member of our community. If you are new to poly, a veteran, single, in a poly family, monogamous but in a poly relationship, with kids or without, young or old, any sexual orientation, or even not poly but friendly- YOU ARE A PART OF OUR COMMUNITY and we want you to join us.
Our activities cover a broad range of interests. We have something for everyone. Classes for people new to poly and discussion groups and classes for those of us who have been around awhile, artistic workshops/classes, spiritual workshops, Tribal interests (drumming and belly dancing), music and dancing, nature, and so on…”
@2 no, it does not sound like france. it sounds like those parents are clueless. i personally don’t care one way or the other about nudity but to assume that others feel the same, particularly in regards to their children, is willfull ignorance. i wouldn’t want my children there either. not because the dad had a date or the mom is topless-but because the parents are so fucking stupid and out of touch with reality and the world around them, and are apparently lacking any sense of common decency. (and by decency i mean not disclosing that their house is “nudity-positive” and that their daughter’s friend might walk in on dad fucking someone if she takes a wrong turn to the bathroom.) people have a right to know what is going on where there children are staying and no sane person would assume that this behavior was included in the sleepover without a heads up.
@sounder, all mono relationships end in someone being hurt, broken, or betrayed. All relationships end(sometimes with the passing of one) if you were committed it is painful.
@1 I think the anecdote may have been lost in translation. i assumed that koe, being a kid, told her friend it MIGHT happen because it was something she was used to, not that her parents ACTUALLY did that when her friends were over. either way, that was not the point of the article.
as for dan’s concern about mixing the adult only and the kid friendly, the classes are really just an extension of the adult only discussions that take place. i went last year, and the atmosphere was very low key and family-friendly. I know Quintus quite well and have been to his family friendly events- the environment will be just as appropriate for children this year as it has always been. He has merely expanded the draw to encompass the entire community.
Also- I’m really unsure how I feel about this article. It irks me when those in the media are trying to skew things…. For example the highlight on the nudity portion of Koe’s interview. She said it “might” happen (as a result of the house being nudity positive), not that it “DID” happen- which says to me the parents did have that common sense to not necessarily share that openness of their home with those that are not accustomed to such practices. Couple that with what he highlighted about the “adult only” activities at Polycamp and it presents a very negative picture in my mind and probably most others (therefore the practices we have put in place to isolate these activities becomes overshadowed by the writer’s emphasis). I mean seriously Dan?
Thoughts anyone?
Much love,
Quintus
@3 Like yours, my sample is also biased/anecdotal, but the majority of the relationships I’ve seen that were poly (not cheating/hiding anything from any partners), have lasted years and most breakups were amicable.
#3: I was intrigued by your comment “It ALWAYS ends with someone being hurt, broken, or betrayed.” Unfortunately, this is equally true in our modern era of monogamous relationships.
Despite what the Christian Right may say about it, monogamy is NOT the foundation of civilization. We live in an age that was perverted by the dream of Romantic Love — the idea that “there is one perfect person in the world for me.” This is known among poly folks as New Relationship Energy, a temporary mental disturbance that unfortunately evolved in the Western world into the foundation for long-term domestic contracts.
Last night I saw “Tristan und Isolde” by Wagner, at the Seattle Opera. Check it out. This is a convincing argument for the understanding that romantic love is a kind of blind insanity, destructive of everything in its path, and often fatal.
oh and Dan, i hope you will follow up this article by attending polycamp this year- i think you may come away with a more nuanced view of the community as a whole.
@ 3 sonder: people often see what they expect to find. people who have known many devorcees have a similar view of relationships overall. nevertheless, one’s few personal anecdotes usually do not provide a very balanced view of something overall. most people i know have very successful poly relationships. that we know different people says little one way or the other however. (though im willing to bet my sample size is bigger than yours).
#12 Was at “Tristan und Isolde” last night, too, thinking how NRE (new relationship energy) can be just as destructive as a magic love potion! Without love triangles and unrequited love, we wouldn’t have half the films, operas, and stories we do.
@10: “Adult only” activities present a very negative picture in your mind? Part of being poly is being sex-positive; to anyone who’s generally sex-negative, poly lifestyles are going to cause them alarm regardless of where the focus of the story is. I don’t think noting the adult only activities or making mention that a family is nudity positive is a bad thing at all.
#9: I stand corrected. Of course there’s a difference between what a kid thinks might happen and what the parents would actually do. My apology to Koe’s family.
Unfortunately, I’ve seen too much of that sort of thing over the years. My greatest dismay has been the common tendency to confuse Polyamory (or, as I prefer, Polyfidelity) with “Obsessed With Sex”. Never begrudge the newly liberated person their enjoyment of a “kid in a candy store” phase, but for those who seek fulfilling committed relationships it’s simply sad to see the sexual element put forth as the first, and ultimate, definition of a Poly life. Sex Positive Culture is a small sub-set of Poly lifestyle, but that’s what people tend to think it’s all about.
The point that polys are trying to build a community that is as inclusive as possible (polys with families, single polys, polys without kids, etc) feels like it’s lost under the over-arching sneer in the author’s tone.
The implication that Polycamp has become less ‘family’ focused seems spurious to me and it doesn’t match with my experiences at Polycamp. It has always seemed to me that Polycamp is like any other gathering – people just wanting to be around people who understand them.
As for the stability of poly, it can and does happen, quite a bit. I’ve been married for 10 years and we’ve been poly the whole time. We’re planning on at least 30 more years and all signs are looking good.
@ 15 and 16- in regard to what 16 (jamesx) says about highlighting the sexual aspect, i think thats why quintus is concerned about the tone of the article. we want to be sex positive, and at the same time we don’t want to further the misconception that it is just about sex rather than multiple emotionally intimate relationships. having read the article again though, I think 15 makes a good point- no matter how carefully worded, this is always going to scandalize some people. thats the price of being out of the closet.
Dan
A couple of factual errors; I started Polycamp seven years ago as a two-day campout in Redmond. There was one picnic in a year when our venue fell through. And Polycamp has always been about the entire poly community: people with kids, people without, gay, straight, trans, you name it. It’s hard serving such a diverse community but its a commitment I had and Quintus is continuing.
Theresa B.
And ours is not the only Polycamp. There are campouts in Vancouver BC, Austin TX, Florida, Virginia, Wisconsin, Quebec…ours is a growing and vibrant community.
Anyone interested in this years’ campout go to http://www.polycamp.org.
LOL, Jamesx, I love your reference to Tristan und Isolde. People forget that the Greeks viewed the whole blind insanity thing in a less than positive way, as well. I’ve had my moments. We try to keep them to a reasonable minimum.
Oh, Sonder, why don’t you just call us all “poly asshats” like you usually do, and be done with it? *laugh*
Love,
Rachael
@15: No, I do not think that “Adult Only” activities are negative- I just feel that the impression this article gives with that highlight coupled with Koe’s portion it is attempting to scare people into thinking that poly people or this event do not have guidelines around children regarding their intimacies or other things that may not be appropriate in front of kidlets.
It’s interesting to note, that when Dan interviewed me- we were speaking about how my wife and I felt it very important that our children have stability and that we lead by example (regarding them witnessing healthy relationships) and so we didn’t want partners coming and going constantly- hence why we chose to be Poly- with stable long term relationships (we see poly as family overall). Anyway, he asked that when our last relationship of four years broke up, isn’t that unstable. My reply was “no more than any monogamous relationship. I mean, look at the rate of divorce these days. I read an interesting article not that long ago that said- whenever a poly relationship falls apart, people will reply- that’s your problem, poly doesn’t work. But when a mono relationship fails, no one says- that’s your problem, monogamy doesn’t work”. Guess my reply wasn’t as damaging to kids as the next relationship and why it wasn’t focused on in the article considering the rest of the tone.
And @ Dan Savage: I do sincerely hope you will attend. I think as someone who supports sex positive, kink positive, and alternative communities that you will learn much from direct witness.
Much love,
Quintus
i would also add, that in many poly relationships there is a much stronger sense of community- the whole it takes a village to raise a child thing- than many mono people now have. In situations like quintus’, when a partner leeves a triad like that, there are still two stable committed parents left, and a strong community to back them up. Even when bio parents divorce in poly communities, they are more likely to remain amicable, hence a smoother transition for the child (granted there are always exceptions!). Having met koe and other kids raised poly, im continually impressed by how mature and emotionally healthy they are. I think this is because of the richness of their village- they gain much from having multiple loving parental figures.
what a beautiful illustration. well composed without too much detail and a perfect color scheme.
Quintus – keep in mind Dan’s not a journalist, he’s an entertainer. I can see what you mean about the tone but to my eye it’s less intended bias or slant and more “these were the parts and pieces that fit to make a concise story”.
I think, and I hope you will come to view, this story as doing more good than harm. My wife and I are poly and would be interested in polycamp if we weren’t already committed those dates.
I love how poly is becoming more open and mainstream! I’ve been poly since the 80’s too, when I was in my early twenties. Before the internet, you just didn’t really know how to meet others like you or whether you were the only one with the crazy ideas.
Now we can send our kids to camp? Incredible!
@12 Romantic love is often fatal? And you base this conclusion off of Tristan und Isolde? Eesh.
While I am an open-minded individual, how is a woman being topless around underage children any more appropriate than a man having his genitalia out around underage children? I can see why the parents of the one child decided to not let their child over anymore, and that is strictly due to the possibility of indecent exposure.
I love the article…..and i think it is a good fit for the stranger’s audience.
thanks Dan.
Just as a historic note, the word ‘polycule’ predates Koe’s reinvention. I’ve been hearing it tossed around in the Boston Poly community for at least a decade.
Hrm, really interesting to see this article and the subsequent thoughtful discussion.
I’m reading as a person who has never been in a poly relationship but has certainly begun to feel very skeptical about the model of all-needs-met-by-single-lifelong-relationship.
While reading I did experience the normative anti-nudity/adult-activity around children urge (I mean, in the NW we have the personal reservedness of scandanavia without the sauna culture) which I honestly don’t think had to do with poly in particular. I found the discussion of looking for long-term thirds and considering celibacy while children to be young to be really thoughtful and cautious: probably more so than similar calculations of straight monogamous people I’ve known. This article really normalized the idea of poly a lot more for me than any previous article on poly I’ve read in the Stranger (including for example, Mistress Matisse).
It seems to me that a big step in normalizing poly in the general culture will be about getting the word out about the non-physical benefits of having several intimate relationships (I think a lot of non-poly people have an unfair and uninformed view of poly people as just being sort of sexually greedy).
Also, the divisive: “you are against true human nature” dialogue being thrown both directions needs to go on the trash heap. Poly-people: you are never going to get monogamous people to think you are normal by telling them that they are not (or that they are lying to themselves, being deceived by popular culture, etc). I think “I” statements like the ones in this article about families and relationships will be a much more powerful tool towards acceptance.
This article really shows that this acceptance is important not just to poly people, but to their children, which makes the issue more accessible to the general culture I think.
@28: “While I am an open-minded individual, how is a woman being topless around underage children any more appropriate than a man having his genitalia out around underage children?”
You are aware of the biological function of breasts, right?
@31, I agree with everything you said. I just feel that it’s necessary to add that it’s important for anyone to be accepting of others, regardless of their beliefs and lifestyle. Acceptance is important to everyone (as part of that basic need for love and belonging. Those who say they don’t need it at all are lying to themselves.) What a lot of people fail to realize is that without accepting other people’s beliefs and lifestyles — whether they agree with beliefs and lifestyles other than their own or not — they are creating a smaller circle of acceptance for themselves.
I’m a long term poly (26 years with my first ever SO and 15 with our third). We’ve had a couple of others in there for shorter terms (SO number one currently has a new relationship). I’ve never had the bad breakups that @3 feels are normative for Poly relationships. Our families are clear and open with this and close friends know. Yes, I don’t go screaming it from the rooftops, but otherwise we aren’t so different from anyone else.
I wish there were local polycamps (Albany, NY). It would be nice to mingle with others.
tom
@7 – DeathatSea – It doesn’t sound at all like Koe’s parents did even the slightest thing wrong. She was prudent to warn her friend and, apparently, her parents were prudent, as well, since nothing out of the ordinary happened to the friend that stayed over in the story.
Before you use epithets like “so fucking stupid and out of touch with reality and the world around them, and are apparently lacking any sense of common decency”, you might consider where your reaction is coming from, because there sure isn’t anything in the article to validate it. This is all you.
Have fun throwing stones in your glass house.
@36 “It doesn’t sound at all like Koe’s parents did even the slightest thing wrong. She was prudent to warn her friend and, apparently, her parents were prudent, as well, since nothing out of the ordinary happened to the friend that stayed over in the story.”
My point exactly… My only concern with the article is that it gives the overall impression that poly people are flagrant with their sexuality in front of children. As Dan says- “Speaking as a parent myself—a sex- positive, kink-positive parent—um… a bondage workshop? At a family camp? With kids running around?” Ya know, it wasn’t all that long ago when Dan was adopting a child of his own and society was saying, “Two men in a homosexual relationship? With kids in the house?” Of all people, Dan should be able to relate to alternative cultures not being damaging to children and by sensationalizing “flagrant sexuality with children” (just as conservatives argued about gays raising children) really does the overall community a disservice (including his own).
Hey Quintus–I’m not poly and I don’t know that much about it. My image of poly was of the sci-fi comic geeks in college trying to be cool. Not a super positive image, but not super bad either. I felt like the article was great in terms of opening my eyes to poly families. I took the comment of the Koa child to be an example of “Kids say the darndest things…”
Also, I was glad that Dan said the thing about the workshop. I was thinking “adult workshop” at a KIDS camp. The article answered my question. And, I was like “Oh course, stuff for adults, no problem.” I also took it as an example that maybe you/the camp was biting off too much. But, I didn’t see it as reflecting badly on you, the camp or the poly community.
Anyway, if I lived in Seattle I would come to poly camp and bring my 4 year old niece. It sounds like a lot of fun and a great supportive environment.
I’m so glad that you started it–thank you!
Sounds like kind of a selfish way to raise kids, with different girlfriends/maternal figures coming and going, but that’s just my opinion.
#39 – How do you feel about single parents dating? With polyamory, the kids (usually) have two or more long term parental figures around. I’m surprised that you’re focusing on girlfriends – the people I know in the community are from every gender.
Would you say that having more than two loving parental figures in a child’s life is a bad thing?
The casual discarding of boundaries, and thoughtless transgression of other people’s boundaries, is the pandemic of our age. It can spoil any type of relationship, poly, monogamous or simple friendship.
My daughters are old enough to talk with frankly as adults, and a common theme is that I cared enough to respect boundaries when I was in the home, even though we never hid our poly life. Their exposure to others who thought that “openness and honesty” meant BEING sexual around children left resentment and memories of being disrespected.
It’s unfortunate that terms like “common human decency” need to be interpreted as stultifying or enslavement to tradition. We need much, much more respect among one another, and respecting boundaries, whether you agree with them or not, is what allows any form of family/community to grow and remain healthy.
And BTW: we’re up to 40 comments in this thread and people still don’t seem clear about the history of Polycamp. IT NEVER WAS A CAMP FOR CHILDREN. It was originally adults only and then evolved to the point that if you wanted to bring children there would be separate areas safe for family activities and anything of a more explicitly sexual nature would be kept entirely apart. Your bad Dan.
This bears repeating: POLYCAMP NEVER WAS A CAMP FOR CHILDREN. It was originally adults only and then evolved to the point that if you wanted to bring children there would be separate areas safe for family activities.
Maybe The Stranger could clarify this in print, since very few participate in the comment threads.
Nearly all parents want to protect their kids physically and emotionally, and work their lives accordingly. Some do better than others.
A single mother trooping endless boyfriends through the house is far more damaging than a relationship that lasts awhile, then ends amicably, as these do. Same goes for dads.
As a gay man who raised sons with his ex-wife, my kids have an unusual family that they’re only now seeing as adults to be unusual. None of them has resented their odd family as adults. Kids are very adaptable, as long as parents are open and honest with them. These poly kids have a perspective that will only help them in life.
Some polys are nudists, some are not.
Some polys are swingers, some are not.
Some polys kinky, some are not.
Some polys are sci-fi fans, some are not.
Some polys are sex-positive, some are not.
Some polys are poor, some are not.
Some polys are intelligent and sophisticated, some are not.
Some polys are Catholic, some are not.
Some polys are exemplary parents, some are not.
All of the above can also be said of monogamous people. It’s important not to conflate being poly with a whole bunch of other characteristics which might describe some poly people and not others.
I applaud Quintus’ efforts to welcome as wide a variety of poly people to PolyCamp as he can. We are a very diverse community and we have a lot to learn from each other. Whoever you are, if you come to PolyCamp there’s a good possibility you’ll meet some folks with whom you have a good deal in common other than just being poly.
@10 I didn’t come away from reading that with a negative impression of poly families. And, I think people are overreacting a bit to the nudity…it sounds a lot like the neighbourhood I grew up in in the 70s, you never knew who would be naked when you ran into a friend’s house, and one of the communes where my best friend lived had some dedicated nudists living there, I don’t remember anyone worrying about it “hurting” the children.
“Some polys are swingers, some are not.”
Okay… Maybe I just don’t get this poly thing. Isn’t having multiple sex partners and swinging basically the same thing? Or is “swinging” swapping partners?
@ 10
Voicing an area of concern is not ‘skewing the media’. I’m poly and I’d sure as hell want to know that the fun family ‘polycamp’ I’m encouraged to bring my son to would be hosting bondage lessons. I get that you guys are trying to be inclusive of all people, but as Dan touched on you sort of lose your focus. It’s about poly kids! Wait… no… that excludes poly people without kids… It’s about poly couples, too – see, fun sexy bondage activities! No, wait… what about poly couples who aren’t kinky? CRAP.
It’s like trying to host an event for “straight people… and their families”… That’s a lot of turf to cover AND SPONSOR.
And as for the nudity thing… we’re really open about nudity in our house. I don’t want my kid growing up thinking his body is something to be ashamed about – but his body is something to be careful with. And if he came home from a sleepover and told me the PARENTS there were wandering around naked/half-naked/whatever? Sorry… there is a certain level of social conformity that is required when dealing with other people’s children. Even if the other parents share your values, failing to show that basic initial respect is a HUGE red flag for negligence/predatory behavior.
@46, the distinction is between poly families who are long-term life partners and folks who have sex with multiple partners but aren’t in LTRs (aside from maybe just LTSR).
And why do folks assume instantly that because you have adults-only stuff going on at the same time as kid stuff, the adult-only stuff is kinky or sexual?
I’ve appreciated this thread far more than I expected to. A discussion with 48 entries and very little ‘flaming’? Wow. Is it just that way among Stranger readers or does this topic bring out more than average thoughtfulness?
The common theme seems to be the conflation (thanks for finding the right word Moonstorm) of Poly lifestyles with so-called ‘sex positive culture’. I’ve found myself more and more frustrated about this. Thirty years ago I yearned for a community of people who understood multiple relationships, but I still have difficulty finding a milieu that isn’t based on “we all have lots of sex with lots of people and that’s what we have in common.” That isn’t a very firm foundation for community.
Monogamy isn’t really all that natural, and the most encouraging thing about the Stranger article is that multiple (ongoing) relationships are about to become as public as same-sex marriage. Which also means it’s about to attract the same backlash. Oh well. . .
OH – BTW! No one has mentioned bi-sexuality. It seems to me that if one is truly bi, poly relationships are the only rational option.
James, I was at the first Polycamp. There have always been children present. However, it has moved more and more towards a child-friendly event, which caused its initial venue change.
Jamesx@49, I don’t think that poly is the only rational option for bi’s. A bisexual person who is equally attacted to men and women no more “has” to have both than a woman who is equally attracted to tall men and short men or red heads and blonds. A bi person may be poly, just like a straight person or gay person may be poly, but many bis are monogamous by choice.