Here’s What We Want

1. These are a good start, but there will be bitter confrontation before this nightmare recedes. Here’s to it.

   Let’s wade in. They have millions, but we are millions. And fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke.

2. I know this is a stretch, and “more jobs” seems like a good mantra… but I’ll offer this:

   Jobs assume that a powerful few will determine who is allowed to have money. Now, we all play into this thinking by going (being forced) to school, and working hard (when the boss is looking) to “get ahead”.

   This is all wrong. Jobs are the tool of civilizations to get people to work towards ends that are not their own.

   You all know Melville’s Bartleby? The man who wouldn’t allow the needs and goals of someone else be his own.

   That’s a healthier goal. There can be no fairness or justice in a system where a few are guaranteed power over many.

   This is the nature of our absurd claims to property rights. And make no mistake, from the righest of the right to the silliest Nissan Leaf driver… Americans love them some property!

   All of that needs to be given up, find a more harmonious balance with the land base, and stop letting someone else’s goals become our own… hell, we never even have a chance to develop our own, thanks to mandatory schooling, dominating parents, and the constant advertising.

   Keep fighting the good fight, Stranger Staff.

   And enjoy

3. Another quicker one:

   “building the roads, rail, bridges, schools, and other crucial public infrastructure we desperately need”

   Why do we need these at all? And desperately, at that?

   Schools seem like terrible places to me, where you learn about the prejudices of your own culture. Remember: nothing is more powerful than a culture’s unquestioned assumptions.

   Roads? They’re used for cars and trucks, no? Wouldn’t we be wise to re-think the future of those tools?

   I’m with you, sort of, on the infrastructure… but only towards the goal and reimagining our cities (by taking them apart, mostly) and country land and get people back in touch with the land.

   So far as I can tell: roads, rail, bridges, schools are all part of the path to enviromental destruction, and the spreading of humans with aims to dominate.

   Enjoy

4. If you want the Occupy movement to end in utter failure, pay heed to #2. The no-property anarchists are living in a dream world. I respectfully suggest they join the Trappists, who live in poverty, work the land, make good beer and, most importantly, never talk. Bon voyage.

5. This is like a kindergartener’s response to a graduate school essay on how free market capitalist economies function. Not that I necessarily agree with the problems in free market capitalist economices that you have identified. I agree that all of these issues are problems. You have failed to identify solutions to these problems that include what political levers must be pulled to implement the solutions. “It is time to put Americans back to work rebuilding America, creating good jobs at good wages building the roads, rail, bridges, schools, and other crucial public infrastructure we desperately need” That was called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (stimulus package). If you are suggesting that this be re-authorized, or that Congress double down on “rebuilding America”, say that. However, also explain how to move the dial politically to make that happen. Shouting from a soapbox without real solutions that are polically expediant makes you all look sophomoric. I urge you to elevate the conversation. You are a respected publication by the youth of this town; do more than rabble-rouse and provide real leadership on how to be the change we all agree should happen.

6. Hey Repete, #4

   I too could suggest (and I think quite rightfully) that continuing to believe that this system will respond to the demands of the least powerful is a dream world — surely, the ownership class has a vested interest in maintaining every ounce of power they have.

   And I most certainly am not opposed to property — however, I would only support property for use… not profit. For example: landlords, collectors of rent — this is a societal position that needs to go.

   Also, it would be wise to remember that what is “possible” is largely what people are willing to believe, so I suggest we all aim high — especially in our talking points.

   It is quite clear this American Empire is poised to collapse under its own weight, and starting to engender some healthier ideas about how humans relate to each other and the land is worth pursuing.

   As for your so-called respectful suggestion (“never talk”… nice call, fascist): in this country, one may not work the land that they do not own or rent… so this is impossible.

   And, I am mostly sorry to say that I come from “the money”… and while I have zero gaudy excesses — no cars, no land (although, it is there for me should I choose), no financial wealth — I prefer to live meagerly, like those who have no choice.

   So yeah, I raise chickens, and grow a lot of food, and am really happy to talk with people about how they see the world, and their relationships in that world.

   You, on the other hand, seem quite dismissive, and marred in an ideology of pragmatism (which is, almost always, the best friend of the powerful).

   Good luck, Repete.

7. Quick follow up to my #7:

   I mention growing up rich for a reason I failed to include:

   Being around scores of very wealthy people gives you unique access to how they actually think — since they are wonderfully adept at using PR speak to hide their beliefs.

   So I can tell you — they fucking hate anyone who challenges their claim to domination. For a pretty simple reason:

   Has any group ever considered their own domination illegitimate? I don’t think so.

   This is important: the wealthy I’ve spent my life around do not value those below them (even the so-called progressives, my family are all voting democrats).

   The problems of this country are not rational, and to believe irrational problems have rational solutions is very silly.

   Again, enjoy.

8. Okay. So do we take all the irrational Just Say No Republicans, corporate oligarchs, tea-baggers, Koch brothers, mafia, drug cartels, crooked banks, bad lenders, big polluters, big oil, big medicine, and anybody with bad credit who insisted on still living in a mega-mansion, etc., etc., and boil them in oil?

   We’re all in this irrational mess together.

9. Re-enact the Glass-Steagall Acts to separate retail banking from investment banking. That way when they lose money it’s THEIR money they lose.

10. make those that value their apparent control fear the possibility of losing it
    -> reshape reality
    i’m not referring to anarchy or terrorism, but remove the stability that those in control rely upon (non-social institutional workers: show up to work and Do NOT give them your best; give them your passable bare-minimum and put your real efforts towards what you believe in) #noMoreLies #noMoreBadDeals

    police & government management are all part of the institution and in on fleecing USA. They just got bought-off at a lower price. #medicalGotPaid

11. Souds fair.Good luck

12. #11 — beautiful. that’s an ethic worth supporting.

13. I disagree wholeheartedly that Wall Street ’caused’ the financial collapse or this recession;

    The culprit is the loosening of the rules w/r/t FNMA purchasing home loans from banks essentially demanded that loans be made to anyone who wanted one; from there it was obvious that this was both the cause of the housing boom (which created money out of thin air that was eventually capitalized, taxed, and budgeted) and the reason for it’s eventual downfall. That Wall-Street types bundled, sold, traded, and profited off the mess is not relevant to or the overall failure of the system.

14. @14

    And FNMA’s policy are largely (if not totally) determined by the “revolving door” of bankers as government policy gurus… and then right back to the banks their hearts and allegiances will always lie… cha-ching!

    I don’t disagree that FNMA pushed bad policy (of course they did) but I think we’re wise to remember who those policies were crafted by and who they served.

15. Awesome. Can you distribute this to the protestors, please? I work downtown and have spoken to many of them, and a lot of them have no fucking clue why they’re there (or at least are unable to articulate their reasons).

16. From the looks of the “protesters,” I’d say working is the last thing on their mind.

17. Unfortunately, this whole article is moot. Just in reading the responses it’s pretty clear none of the 99% can actually agree on anything, except protest. We’re only good at ranting.

18. On page 7 there is a small box at the bottom that has the statement “Are you fucking stupid?” about the protesters not having a clear message. Perhaps if the protesters would refrain from cursing at the people questioning them and give answers and solutions to what they want as opposed to just saying “it’s broke; fix it” they could get even more support. What little I have actually been able to find about their objectives came from a single person who had 13 demands (one of which was a 20 dollar minimum wage. yeah, that’ll get the economy rolling when business’ go bankrupt trying to pay unskilled workers that and charging 50 dollars for a hamburger to keep their business afloat). The Tea Party may not be mainstream but you don’t hear complaints about them trashing public/private property, defecating/urinating in alley ways or being able to spend weeks on end sitting around disrupting business’ and the work schedules of the working class they say they are defending. And after reading about and hearing interviews with people who call themselves professional protesters, I can tell you that does not resonate with the working class at all. The Occupiers daily make themselves look worse as common people go about their lives trying to make ends meet. In the end they will accomplish nothing and have distanced themselves from the very people they claim to be protesting for.

19. @Matt11: Ah, you’re suffering from Rich White Person Syndrome? Having a bit of white guilt and idealism during adolescence is perfectly natural. I enjoyed a liberal-minded upbringing in the suburbs so I had a bit of it too for a while. (And it’s so endearing when a wealthy person *chooses* to live like a poor person. Solidarity comrade!) However, if you read up on your history you’ll get a sense of what happens with utopias.

20. Repete, I’m not really with you here, so a few things (my tone will be condescending at times, as I feel you’ve mocked me a bit, so be prepared for that):

    Earlier you labeled me an anarchist, now this cute syndrome you’ve laid out, you’ve lumped me into whatever you might mean by adolescence… and finally, you suggest I’ve called for a utopia. What’s the deal? You’re wrong on all counts, yet ostensibly desperate to label?

    And this idea that I should “read up on my history” is adorable. Please, what “history” might that be?

    You’ve made this hilariously common move, in which you call “idealism during adolescence” perfectly natural. Humans get very confused with this term “natural” and “nature” (ask someone what “nature” is, and they’ll look at you like you’re an asshole. But, as it goes, any culture’s most powerful tool is its unexamined assumptions — those things that are so “obvious” as to go unquestioned and unconsidered… Neil Evernden’s The Social Creation of Nature might be useful to you.

    You also conflate living meagerly (as I described)… not having great quantities of possession, with being poor. That strikes me as a mistake as well, and a common one.

    So, none of this suggests you’re of a generous mindset, perhaps a bit jerky, so I’ll throw a few things your way that might clear an optional path… at least a bit. I’m trying to be generous:

    First, this culture is clearly pathological, deeply diseased: spends all their “wealth” on militarization; has engaged in constant war for 100 years (with the stated goal, going back to McKinley, or American hegemony); rapes 25% of the women (40% either raped or have to fight off rapists); dumps plutonium into their living space — all while calling an economic system based on the wealthy few dominating the masses through mass coercion and a constant threat of violence (don’t play by the dominator’s rules? and expect to be homeless or imprisoned).

    To want to change that paradigm is not seeking “utopia”… it’s wishing that the great shift in the rise of civilization (a way of life driven by people living in cities) removed humans from a sense of belonging to the natural world, leading to one of the most destructive ego-trips that I can imagine.

    So, if the culture is this sick — continuing to cling to hopes of economic growth, despite the depletion of all the NNR that could catalyze that growth: bauxite, copper, iron/steel, manganese, natural gas, oil, phosphate, potash, uranium, zinc (to name some of the most essential)… then its time to help people imagine a realizable future — as oppose to the nonsense peddled by what DeBord described as The Spectacle.

    Side note: my family got wealthy through a long-line of executives at a mining multinational — so I’m pretty well versed business matters, and why economic growth is no longer possible on a global scale.

    That was about 20 minutes, so unless you come back with something generous, this will probably be the end of our communication.

    Enjoy, think about that labeling habit, perhaps.

21. Blowjobs for All!

22. It seems to me a(n out-of-)worker based protest movement, acting out due to not getting what they think are owed for going along with the charade. These folks are NOT as concerned with how they got here and how to correct it,
    such as:
    repealing rule changes in both houses of congress that cause continuous legislative gridlock.
    ending campaign contributions above $1,000.
    not believing corporations are ‘people’ until one gets convicted for crimes against humanity.
    a revolution in human thinking that worked its’ way around regulations and deflated the perception of economics as less than imaginary.
    an era where companies figured out use of the information age, needing far fewer humans to generate greater profits.
    capitalism realizing the end of growth potential with gloalization.
    inclusion of a vast mass of humanity into the market place and expecting USAmericans to stay ‘on top’.

    I was involved in MANY protests in D.C., and while I applaud their energy, fail to understand this action.

23. Matt_11 and Repeat – you two should get married!!!

24. I agree, but this rinky-dink protesting is so cliche. These are serious issues, demanding a serious response. Blow some shit up.

    (metaphorically… of course).

25. you want jobs? start picking some fruit, dammit. or laying down some asphalt. all the bird-brained/whiney/pseudo-intellectual/graphic-design-your-own-major-in-college positions have been filled.

26. If this hasn’t already been mentioned, Matt Taibbi says it best:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new…

27. @23: hear hear!

28. @18: Yes, a lot of protesters don’t know what they’re ranting about, but national and global frustration with the broken system are mounting, and momentum is definitely building. The big problem is where, exactly, to START in repairing the abysmal economic damage of 30 years in the making. Another problem is in dealing with the corporations and crooked politicians in charge, who want to “stay the course”. Unfortunately, THAT right there is why we can’t be rational with these greedy assholes anymore.

29. publicly funded elections (EOM)

30. I’m with Flounder @31! Make it so you don’t have to be a 1%-er or sell your political soul to them in order to get into political office! I think that will make the other problems begin to be solvable.

31. I’m with Flounder @31! Make it so you don’t have to be a 1%-er or sell your political soul to them in order to get into political office! I think that will make the other problems much more solvable.

32. I’m sure by now you have heard about the nationwide occupations of parks, city halls and any other public areas.

    Maybe what you are asking yourself is “How do I fit in?” or “How can I help?” or “What is it about?”

    What are the Occupations about?
    The occupations are about unity with other people who are concerned about our future. All people are needed in every occupation. It doesn’t matter what your concern is, heck, we are overwhelmed with concerns at this point. What matters is that you speak up about what matters to you. Most concerns can be traced back to greed. That is why you keep hearing that the occupations are about “corporate greed”.

    How do I fit in?
    You fit in because your future is at stake. You fit in because our children are at stake. You fit in because you eat poisoned food, drink poisoned water and breathe poisoned air. You fit in because you see the wrong all around us. You fit because you strive for a better world. You fit in because you are tired of seeing our soldiers in an endless war. You fit in because you have lost your job, your home or your stability. You fit in because you care. You fit in because you want to make a change.
    http://www.occupytogether.org/

    How can I help?
    -Close your bank account
    – Tell or Discuss this with 5 different people every day
    – Print posters, flyers or signs
    – Plug your occupation on radio stations –
    – Write to your mayor –
    – Donate – Donate – Donate! –
    – Send Pizza – Food / Coffee –
    – Send Care Packages through Snail Mail –
    – Donate to the Livestream media teams –
    – Go there today, Go there tomorrow, Go there on the weekend – JUST GO!
    – Contact local organic farms that deliver
    – Take out ads in your local newspaper under “announcements” or other areas.
    – Participate in Civil Disobedience whenever possible
    – Send up fundraisers

    We are growing, our voices are being heard, forces are joining and we need you to be there! General Assemblies (GA) is where your voice is heard. You get to be part of decision making, the process and we need you to be there! Things are growing organized, people are beginning to find their spots and we are strong.

    Much Love to you all !!!

33. So you want to regulate horizontal mobility, and make stuff ‘fair’. The bureaucracy and intrusiveness required to make stuff ‘fair’ would collapse the best elements of America, our nimble response to innovation and the brisk capitalization of those enterprises. The housing market failed one idiot borrower at a time. Sucking the equity out of the family home and buying boats. Lenders were more often coerced into writing obviously hi risk loans by ‘EEOC’ and ‘ethnofairness’ whiners, than any ‘predatory’ behavior. While your looking for that tit to suckle, read the fucking constitution(you did not specify US or state). Ain’t no promises for any tangible benefits. It exclusively protects us from excesses of the state, and knowingly sacrifices tightly organized society for the benefits of individual choice. In short, sink or swim. 7/8 of the world is stupid, primitive and incapable of classic Americanism. The gene pool that plans their lives, produces more than they consume, stays out of trouble and pays taxes voluntarily is quite small. You will miss us when we are gone.

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