…can I say that I read this in today’s NYT…

In “Drop Dead Diva,” on Lifetime, a heavenly mix-up leaves Deb, a vapid but good-hearted size zero model, trapped in the overweight body of Jane, an intelligent, hard-working lawyer played by Brooke Elliott. (Think “Heaven Can Wait” meets “Ally McBeal” and “Legally Blonde.”) The ensuing story line centers on Deb’s struggle to accept her new plus-size life.

…and immediately scrolled back up to take a second look at the picture. Um… Brooke Elliot, at least in the picture in today’s NYT, doesn’t strike me as all that plus-sized.

103 replies on “As Slog’s Resident Anti-Fat Bigot…”

  1. I have a love/hate relationship with this show. I continue to watch it but each week’s storyline gets progressively worse. Her legal cases usually have something to do with being overweight and discrimination blah blah blah.

  4. They used a particularly flattering photo for this, but she does have a bit of a fluff to her. Rosie O’ is also in the show, as is Margaret Cho. It’s a pretty plus-sized cast. It’s also terribly funny when it tries to be, otherwise it’s another method-based “funny lawyer show”/morality tale.

    By the way Dan, the opposite of “anti-fat bigot” is apparently “Adipositive”, combining adipose with positive. Google it sometime.

  9. What the hell is this shit? They still haven’t turned out sequels to Baby Monitor: Sound of Fear or Mother, May I Sleep With Danger. Lifetime Network, you’re blowing it.

  10. I couldn’t stand myself when I hit size 10. It only took me four months to shed years of gradual weight gain and get back to a size 2. I’ll need better proof than a NYT story before I believe there are people who are constitutionally incapable of resisting a chocolate doughnut.

  11. If you were to meet her in person, you would think she’s pretty average. It’s only when she’s standing next to the ultra-thin men and women who are her fellow actors that her supposed size is an issue.

  13. Anything larger than a size 6 is considered large these days. It’s sad, really. Marilyn Monroe was a size 12.

    This dichotomy has been pointed out before, but it bears repeating. First of all, there are millions and millions of vapid people out there who are very comfortable judging a book by its cover (most notably corporate America). Never a good policy. First impressions are very often wrong. Secondly, during the Great Depression, when only rich people could eat well, having a little meat on one’s bones was considered a sign of affluence. Now, with poor people eating low-cost, high-caloric crap (and showing its effects), being thin – very thin – is fashionable (I can afford to eat, but I chose not to.). Additionally, being ripped works well (I can afford to spend all day in a gym!).

    Is one’s obesity his own fault? Well, ultimately yes, but there’s a lot of very poor people out there – working poor, people on fixed incomes – who really have no choice in food matters. As seen on a recent PBS special regarding this issue, a Mexican-American woman demonstrated that she could feed her children with McDonald’s hamburgers for what a couple of pounds of fresh broccoli costs.

    I think we need to collectively remove our hands from down the front of our pants and stop concentrating on how people look, and start concentrating on being healthy, promoting health and education, and doing whatever it’s going to take to offer good, wholesome food for people to eat at a very reasonable price. Otherwise, we’re screwed.

  16. LOL @10… I’m with you there… Although I’d look sickly at a size 2. I like to stick to a 4/5… Literally every legitimately overweight person I’ve ever known/been related too bitches about it while gorging on cheeseburgers/ice cream/insert fatty snack here. Just say no people, it really isn’t that fucking hard.

  17. like currency, it’s futile to compare clothing sizes of the present with the past…

    also, overly thin people are just as alaming and unhealthy as overly fat people peole….there’s just not as many of them, and most of them are on tv.

  18. No. She’s fat.
    Just because plenty of American women look that way doesn’t make her ‘average.’
    We don’t get to slide the scale of ‘normal’ around just because we’re an overweight society. I’d guess she’s about 60lbs overweight.

  21. @15 & 19 I’m not lying, although clothing sizes might be. I’ve lost 17 pounds since May, that’s about a pound a week. The clothes they call size 2 now, were size 6 when I was in high school, and god only knows what size when Marilyn Monroe was wearing them. I’m well in the middle of my recommended BMI.

  22. @19, oh, i get that losing 5 sizes in 4 months is severe…i was referring more to the sad comment about #10 not being able to stand her/himself a size 10 heifer. and the underlying thin privilege philosophy that everyone else must then hate themselves if they’re such fatties. same goes for #16.

  23. I know I’m gay, but I’m also a total dude geek, and have no idea what these ‘Size Numbers’ of which you speak mean. Why reduce the semi-complex and often variable measures of dimensions used for human body size to ONE FUCKING NUMBER?!?! What does it mean to be a ‘Size 4’ or ‘Size 6’?!? How can this one description take into account all the different combinations of Shoulder/Bust/Waist/Hip/Leg lengths and widths?!? Even if reduced to ratios, how do they account for broad shoulders small boobed short wasted but hippy girls as opposed to narrow shoulders big boobed long wasted pencil legged girls?!? Why do the ladies even do this to themselves?!? I know that this isn’t really relative to the topic at hand, but something I’ve wondered about for a while, and never gotten a satisfactory answer.

  25. My original point was that everyone is happy with their body at a different size. I completely understand how unhappy the skinny girl in the Lifetime serious would be in a plus-size body, even if that body doesn’t really look that fat to most of us. I don’t really care what my BMI or dress size is, I spent the last several years hating my body, and now I like it again. I’m a strong advocate of everyone having the power to do that.

  28. She’s a size 16, and yes she is plus sized. She’s unbearably hot, and incredibly sexy, as only a size 16 woman can be. I watch this show for purely autoerotic reasons, not for April Bowlby (Kandi from Two and a Half Men) but for Brooke. Yes, I have a preference, no it’s not a fetish. Just, who wants to feel vertebrae and ribs anyway. Women are supposed to be the softer sex!

  29. @18- Average doesn’t mean normal. You’re conflating the two which confuses your point.

    @23- Because women’s fashion is FUCKING CRAZY, that’s why.

  31. self-loathing makes a shitty motivator… i wasn’t able to lose weight when i hated myself. when i decided looking more normal and conventionally feminine would help me in my career it was a breeze.

  32. @23 businesses make more money this way. the end. like the thousands of stupid, dangerous things people do that they swear are their identity, so goes this bullshit.

    size 4 can mean lots of things:
    i have a small frame
    i am anorexic
    i paid $120 for this pair of shorts, and am really an 8, as all of my other clothes are labeled
    my shirt is a four, but my pants are a seven
    my pants are a four, but my shirt is a nine
    etc. etc.

    usually it is one of the above plus someone trying to say, “this is how much better than you i am!” see @10

  33. Neither to me. Extremes are always harmful, just as being overtly obese can prove to be dangerous for your health so can be being extremely on the thin side. Which is something that’s common with young women of certain backgrounds (usually privileged), those seeking to be in the modeling world or acting and in the intellectual and hypster scene. None of the ladies in the picture strike me as being in either extreme and so long as the series has a positive message for those struggling with their weight then its something worth noting.

    Also, perhaps the viewing of women with actual natural looking bodies may well prove to be something healthy both for all who find themselves anorexia and obesity.

  37. According to Wikipedia, US women’s clothing manufactures now engage in what is called vanity sizing. One can subtract six sizes from old standards to equate to today’s sizing. An old 12 is a new 6. Hollywood costumers, however, are not retail clothiers and use the US sizing standards.

    There is no way you could get Marilyn Monroe’s curvy, full butt into a modern size 6. Check it out in that white, bejeweled gown she wears in Some Like It Hot. Just sayin’.

  38. #23: It’s a shortcut for ready-to-wear clothes. Just like men and some women’s clothes are “M” “L” “XL” “XXL”. Size numbers (dress sizes) are more specific and less judgmental. Tailored/custom clothes don’t necessarily follow that sizing guideline and get more specific. There are also different fits on ready to wear styles (petite, tall, misses, juniors, etc.). Different clothing lines follow different fit ratios, which is why a lot of women are very loyal to certain brands/lines if they have a non-standard body type.

  40. She is totally plus sized. I absolutely wouldn’t call her obese, but she is a far cry from a size zero.

    You don’t have to deny the difference in order to be pro ‘real’ women.

    And @ 10…there is no way that a 17 pound loss of weight would bring you from a size 10 to a size 2. Maybe if you’re going by two completely different brands…one that runs extremely small and one that calls it a smaller size than it is…but even that’s a stretch.

  41. the entire premise of this show sucks. i find it so freaking offensive! and can’t believe margaret cho -after all she went through with regard to her TV experience and struggles with weight – has anything to do with this stupid show.

  42. @40, You may not call her obese, but I’m willing to bet that she is, or very near, obese according to medical standards.
    When we talk about “the obesity epidemic” we are talking about women like her.

  43. I’m with you, PDX Paulie. The numbers used for women’s clothing suck, and they differ to some extent with each brand. I prefer European sizing, although size 27 sounds huge, it’s at least consistent. Anyway, don’t try to understand it, just chalk it up to nuttiness. And, have compassion on us if we hog the changing room at the Gap or whatever.

  45. What the hell, people.

    That’s a damn big woman. Nothing against her.

    But let’s not pretend that’s “average”, except in Michigan or something.

  46. But she is, Dan. She’s a size 16, which is plus sized. When you’re harping on the so-called obesity epidemic, it’s people like her that you’re railing against. Kind of makes you look like an idiot.

  47. There was a recent UK study (you can Goggle it) that surveyed what women thought men desired (a size 8) – What men actualy desired (a size 12) and the national average for UK women (a size 16)

    I’d have to agree with that size 12 for a young woman, however if given a choice I’d take the size 16 over the size 8 in a heartbeat.

  48. Women’s clothing is totally unpredictable. I know my body, I know it hasn’t changed much in the last 8 years (I’m 22), and I don’t care what the little number on the inside says. I’ve had a size 13 be too small and a size 2 be too big. There’s a lot of vanity sizing out there, and not just on expensive clothing – I’ve actually seen it a lot at places like Ross or TJ Maxx. It bugs the heck out of me.

    Also, @23, body ratios can make it very difficult to shop for clothing. Sometimes I’ll find a top I’ll adore, but to get the right size for my boobs I would need to be billowing around the waist, etc. Besides playing the erratic-sizing game, women need to learn what styles work well on their bodies instead of trying to squish into the latest fashions and distort their own figures.

    The only way to get consistent sizing is to use what the men’s clothing industry uses – inch measurements. Bust, waist, hips, etc.

  49. She is plus size – in fact she is the same size that I am. I spent most of my life worrying about my weight even though my doctor has told me I am in great health. Being fat isn’t always a result of having low willpower or eating the wrong foods, just like being skinny doesn’t necessarily imply that a person leads a healthy lifestyle. There are fat people who don’t take care of themselves, and there are fat people who do. The ones who don’t are the problem.

  53. 51, I was going going to post that in response to #2.. “I wanted Mary Ann on Gilligan’s Island ugly, not Cornelius on Planet of the Apes ugly. I wanted ‘TV ugly’, not ugly ugly.”

    Anyway, it looks like they are doing some slimming illusions with her makeup and wardrobe. At least the show portrays her as having unhealthy diet and exercise habits.

    Also American woman’s clothing sizes are very fluid. What used to be a size four, is now often called a zero. American men’s sizes, S M L XL XXL, etc have been similarly manipulated. I usually ware an XL, for the length, but the shirts are like a tents. When I was in New Zealand earlier this year, I bought an XL rugby shirt, and it not only fit lengthwise, but was actually cut to fit a normal weight guy. Manufacturers have found that Americans will buy clothing if it makes them feel they are thinner. It’s not really a good trend.

  54. 52, Cho has lost a lot of weight. She’s learned the power of portion control.

    http://www.starling-fitness.com/wp-conte…

    http://www.starling-fitness.com/wp-conte…

    “So there you go. Big secret diet. Love. Love and the audacity to actually waste food,” has been the most healing for me. To be willing to order Prime Rib because I want it and throw out nine of the twelve ounces is such a big step for me. I am now able to pay $2.50 for one of those Chantico drinking chocolates from Starbucks and only drink an inch off the top and throw the rest away.

    In my mind, it was never about the money. It was always about the waste. “It took a lot of people time to grow, ship and cook this food and if I don’t eat it all, I’ve wasted it.” That concept was so powerful for so long that I struggled with weight loss until I was able to discard it.”

    http://www.starling-fitness.com/archives…

  56. Sorry Dan, can you clarify, please?

    Does being an “anti-fat bigot” mean you are anti-fat people? Or are you bigoted (sp?) against anti-fat people?

  58. Rob, you’re delusional. We all have to wear sunglasses in Seattle thanks to that glare coming off your head in Baltimore. Tell you what: all the fatties here will go on Weight Watchers for three months if you go on Rogaine for the same time. Deal?

  59. Rob, why do you assume #55 is fat? Also, it’s really telling that you’re using the word fat as an insult. Says way more about you than it does the people you’re describing with it.

  61. 59, I’m not using it as an insult. The person would rather make up stuff than to deal with his or her bad diet and exercise habits.

  62. But Rob, you’re automatically assuming that they’re a fat person and trying to shame them for it, with no evidence to support your theory. Which, yes, does mean that you’re using the word fat as an insult.

    So why are you assuming that? I’ve scrolled through the comments and can’t see anywhere where that commenter mentioned being fat.

  63. 62, Because the person had quite a strong reaction, and took such offense at me posting Margaret Cho’s diet & weight loss success story.

  64. Rob, maybe that person was taking exception to your tone. When you post in these threads you tend to have a very holier-than-thou tone to your words.

  65. Also, I’m not so sure one could chalk Margaret Cho’s weight loss up to simple “portion control” — in the interview segment you quoted it sounds more like she’s describing intuitive eating.

  66. Yup — I clicked on your links about Margaret Cho, Rob, and what she is talking about is intuitive eating, not a “diet”. Not “portion control”. Also, that link is pretty horrifying — the blog author is talking about how “thin and perfect” Cho is now. Equating thinness with perfection? That’s pretty disordered thinking.

  67. 66, She specifically talks about portion control. She orders a 12 ounce prime rib, and leaves 9 ounces on the plate. She drinks only the top inch of her latte. That is the very definition of portion control. She chooses to control the portion that she consumes.

  68. 64, You project the holier than thou into it. I’m merely stating facts about diet, exercise, and weight control. You take offense at that for some reason.

  70. Rob, I’m far from the only person here who’s called you out for being holier-than-thou. I remember Kim in Portland doing it in a different comment thread a while back — are you going to try to tell me that she’s a secret fatty who’s taking offense to your facts?

  71. 69, She talks about doing all these bad diet plans that in the end caused her to over eat, and she finally settles for portion control. For what ever reason, she felt obligated to eat everything put on a plate in front of her. She has since retrained herself to eat what she wants, but to limit how much she eats. It portion control, plain and simple.

  72. Keep calling it portion control if you want, Rob. I actually read Margaret’s entire entry on HER blog, not the creepy one you linked to, and when I read what Margaret has to say about her own decisions it’s really clear that she’s talking about intuitive eating.

    It’s really sad that you can’t open your mind just the tiniest bit here. I feel for you.

  73. 70, Maybe she is overweight, I don’t know. Again, all I have ever done is state facts about diet, exercise and weight control. I’m sorry they bother you so much.

  74. 50 – well, if it makes you feel better, that’s not true anymore. Being a 32 waist used to mean the same thing at Gap, Banana Republic, etc. Not anymore. At those stores, sometimes I’m a 33, sometimes a 36 (when the hell did BR decide they should sell skinny jeans?), and don’t even get me started on places like H&M, where my big fat American size-33 waist maaaaaybe fits into their size 38’s. It’s not consistent at all anymore.

  75. The “facts” you trot out don’t bother me at all, Rob, but I guess you need to think they do. Again, that’s pretty sad, and I feel sorry for you.

  78. Well, Rob, I find it really telling that when provided with a link to Margaret Cho’s own blog entry about her eating habits, and asked if you have read the link, you won’t even answer. Nor would you answer when asked why you keep calling other commenters fat when they haven’t even mentioned anything about their own bodies.

    I really do feel sorry for you. You’ve got a pretty obvious axe to grind with regard to the overweight — maybe you were a fat kid who got teased a little too much, maybe you had a fat lover that broke your heart. I don’t know. All I know is that this world is too full of hate, and I hope someday you can let go of the hate in your heart and learn to accept people for what they are and not what you want them to be.

  80. 78, I read the link, and stand by my previous statements. I also answered as to why I think the other poster is overweight. I have no hate for fat people. I simply have stated facts about diet, exercise, and weight control. I’m sorry you don’t like to hear them, but you don’t have to read my posts.

  81. Wow! I didn’t expect to find myself mentioned, but that’s me in my avatar, so you all can decide for yourself. I’m happy and that’s what counts, and I hope you all are just as happy, too.

  83. Hmm… you’d think that a fatter woman with the brain of a thinner woman would immediately start losing some weight. Have they written that into the storyline? Because I bet size-0 model has learned not to have that second doughnut, and the fat body she’s trapped in would immediately start to feel the benefits.

    Also, we have to be careful when we use the old “Marilyn Monroe was a size 12” line. Women’s sizes have meant lots of different things over the years–and still do. For instance, I fit anywhere between a 0 to a 6 in stores, depending on the store. I’m also an avid sewer, and sewing sizes have remained similar to the way they were in the 50’s. I fit anywhere from a 6 to a 10 in sewing sizes.

    Size numbers were bigger in the 50’s. Marilyn, given the sizing numbers of her time, must have fit anywhere between an 8 and a 16.

    I definitely agree that Marilyn had some roundness to her, and was a little more robust than your standard model of today. Was she a size 12 of today? Certainly not.

  85. Ah, interesting article, Haunted Leg, thank you. It looks like they had to come up with a way to keep the fat girl fat, even with a thin person’s brain. So they came up with the idea that the fat girl’s “body craves Cheez Wiz.”

    The blogger is right to call bullshit. Apparently we’re supposed to believe that being fat or thin is totally against our control, and the only reason thin people are thin is because they really *like* eating small portions of healthy food, whereas fat people *like* overeating junk.

  86. Not exactly, MichelleZB — the fact is that fatness or thinness is MOSTLY not in our personal control. There’s only so much you can do to fight your body’s natural tendencies to lose or gain weight, whichever it is for you. I’m thinking of myself and a dear friend of mine — I’m built more like the star of Drop Dead Diva (except with a bigger rack), I eat healthily and get plenty of exercise and treat my body well, and the most I can lose is 15 pounds before I plateau, and then my body starts putting weight back on regardless of what I do. I’ve stayed in the same weight range for the past decade, always losing and regaining the same 15-20 pounds despite a whole lot of work. However, my dear friend, who is slender and willowy like an Asian teen — she abuses OTC drugs, smokes 2 packs a day, eats nothing but McDonald’s and Taco Bell (no, literally, nothing but those two places), and gets no exercise, and she can’t gain weight at all. The last time I saw her without a shirt on I could count her ribs.

    So how come my friend is so thin and I’m still heavy? I mean, by your rationale I should be super-skinny because my brain behaves “like a thin girl’s”. And my friend should be clinically obese. But instead it’s the other way around. I do all the “right” things, she does all the “wrong” things.

    Maybe it’s that your assumptions are incorrect?

  87. I went from a pretty regular size 8 to a size 0 in six months when I was ill several years ago. I lost 25 pounds to drop those sizes (I dropped to about 105 pounds on a short but fairly sturdy frame). I did not look good at a size 0, and when my health improved, I went right back to my usual size 8. Looks-wise, I’d be happier at a 6, but I’m not really complaining all that much. Sure, some people think a size 8 is a cow, but this seems to be where my body is healthiest.

    (Oh, and if I shop at Nordstrom, I wear a 4 – although their size 0’s fit pretty well when I really was a size 0. Size 2 and under don’t have as much vanity sizing, because then the naturally-thin women would be shopping in the children’s department or wearing tents. Women’s sizing is BERSERK.)

    …and if I buy vintage clothes off eBay, I have to be careful to order a 10 or 12, because the sizes have DEFINITELY changed some.

  88. One of the best compliments I’ve ever gotten as a short, but very curvy overweight woman: I said, “I’m like a 6 foot tall hottie squished by 8 inches.” My (preferred gender) friend said, “yeah, but then you wouldn’t be any fun, 6 foot tall women who look like that are vapid.”

  90. @88 – that is very true. I am 5’11 and pretty athletic, but been always paranoid that if i ever gained any significant amount of weight i would look like an ugly, huge mountain. Being curvy, i thought, could only work for shorter girls.

    But when i saw Queen Latifah who is just an inch shorter then I and realised that sexy and pretty are not size-dependent. Even though, of course, being healthy is the most worthy goal.

    If you are built to be naturally curvy, even if you starve yourself, the best we get as a result would be proverbial “skinny cow”

  91. I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder.

    As for me, give me a size 8 or under. MMM MMM, hot!

    If it helps you sleep at night, please go on pretending that trim, fit women catch the eye only because everyone’s been hoodwinked by some sort of sick societal brainwashing.

  92. Ahhhh, the desensitization program is working (rubbing hands with glee)! Your fat-hating cred is in jeopardy.

    “not all that plus-sized”?

    I just bought a size 18 suit from Macy’s (just three sizes into the plus category). My BMI is right around 40, and that’s deep into obese territory.

  93. @74: I totally agree. It makes me crazy. I thought I was losing my mind when I suddenly jumped two pants sizes. Then I went and visited my parents and found that I still fit into my clothes from college. The new fits don’t favor men with larger (fat or muscular) butts and (more muscular) thighs.

  94. @86 I mean, by your rationale I should be super-skinny because my brain behaves “like a thin girl’s”.

    No, no, I didn’t intend that. Obviously, people’s size is at least partially genetically determined. But of course, eating habits and exercise can take you up or down within your genetic range. Right?

    Now, I wasn’t trying to say anything about you or whether you should be super-skinny or not. I don’t even know you, or your circumstances. What I do know, a little, are the circumstances of the characters on the show. We are led to believe that thin chick went on diets and exercised like a mofo, and that fat chick eats cheez whiz and ice cream and lies to her doctor about going to the gym. Obviously, fat chick could probably lose a few within her genetically predetermined weight range if she changed her habits. But even with the brain of someone used to depriving herself, she doesn’t. Plot hole. See what I mean?

  95. MichelleZB, I’m sorry, I don’t see what you mean. It still sounds to me like you’re assuming the thin girl has all the right habits and the fat girl has all the wrong habits. That’s why I’m using myself and my skinny friend as an example of how wrong that thinking is. Good lord, in the Jezebel article that I linked to, there’s even a clip of the show that points out that Jane (the “fat chick”) has tried pretty much every diet out there.

    Also, the whole thing about her lying to her doc about the gym? I assumed that was because the “thin girl” is the one in control now, and that she wasn’t going to the gym because she hadn’t had to do so when she lived in her own thin body. About ten seconds into the clip, Jane has to ask Margaret Cho’s character who her (Jane’s) doctor is. I thought that kind of made it clear that, uh, it’s not really Jane who’s talking. It’s Deb, the thin girl that now inhabits Jane’s body.

    Does that make sense? Maybe you need to go back to that article and watch that clip, and keep in mind that Deb (the dead thin girl) is the one talking out of Jane’s mouth. It’s not Jane talking. When you keep that in mind, her conversation with the doctor makes a hell of a lot more sense. You’re hearing a thin girl’s experiences and assumptions coming out of a fat girl’s mouth.

  96. @92: You shouldn’t be at a 40 BMI with a size 18 dress unless you’re, oh, 4’8. If you’re 5’7 or thereabouts, a size 18 would likely be a 30-33 BMI.

  97. @96 – I’m just over five feet tall and just over 200 pounds. Depending on the cut and style, I wear a size 1X or 2X or 18/20. I don’t know my measurements off the top of my head, and I don’t wear my clothes tight. I have lots of muscle, though.

  99. @14 – That’s nice. My husband would jump at the chance to bed Cho, precisely *because* she doesn’t keep her mouth shut. Thanks for making me grateful to be married to him and not someone like you.

  102. @23: Oh yeah, and in addition to all the other complaints here about inconsistent clothing sizes, a size can also be affected by the cut and fabric of the garment. A nice stretchy t-shirt is going to fit quite differently from a linen dress blouse.

  103. Dan still doesn’t get it, but this is cute. You are not the resident bigot or worst problem, Dan. The bigger issue is the permission you give to genuinely worthless pieces of bigoted shit like Rob or evil cunts like #16. You validate assholes. Over and over. And they don’t just stay on Slog. They take their refreshed bigotry out with renewed vigor into the world, heartened by the validation they get from you. They bully people. You encourage it.

    You were sweet here, right? The end result was still an orgy of fat-bashing, right?

    “Drop Dead Diva,” by the way, is another show where a talented cast is wasted on dull, flabby writing. See “Eastwick.” The lead is a pretty fat girl.

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