It’s getting kind of hectic. In the early morning of Sunday, January
4, a man knocked on a side door at Chop Suey and, when the door was
opened, shot three people in the club’s backstage area, killing local
MC 29-E and wounding Trama and 1st Black Prez.
DeVon Manier, owner of Sportn’ Life Records, whose rapper Fatal
Lucciauno was performing that night, was backstage when the shooting
occurred. “If you’ve been backstage at Chop Suey,” says Manier, “you
know people are always knocking on the door to get backstage, and you
think it’s one of the artists who needs to get in. Well, 1st Black
Prez—the guy in the hospital—after hosting the show, goes
backstage, hears a knock on the door, opens it up, and there it is.
Next thing, my girlfriend says there’s shooting. Instead of running to
the front, we ran to the back and got behind some furniture. We didn’t
know where the trouble was coming from. It happened quickly.”
Where is this trouble coming from? In the past six months, Seattle
has seen an escalation of gang-related shootings. On August 5, Pierre
Lapoint was fatally shot while walking down Rainier Avenue South. On
October 31, Quincy S. Coleman, a 15-year-old rapper, was shot and
killed not far from where, a month later, Donnie P. Cheatham, a
high-school basketball star, was shot in the face after an argument
that erupted in front of the Garfield Community Center. And on November
23, Nathaniel Lee Thomas was shot dead inside of Vito’s Madison Grill,
which had become a popular spot for rap/R&B nights.
The incident at Vito’s was not only a part of the recent wave of
gang-related shootings but also the long, long history of violent
disruptions within or outside clubs that regularly host rap/R&B
nights. There was the shooting at Sugar nightclub in November 2007, the
shooting outside of Tabella Restaurant & Lounge in July 2007, the
shooting outside of Tommy’s on the Ave in June 2007, the stabbings and
shootings inside and outside of Larry’s Nightclub in December 2005, the
shooting outside Mr. Lucky’s in April 2004, the shootings outside of
I-Spy in 2002, and so on and so on.
Some of these clubs were closed, and with good reason. As one who
lived a block from the Mantra Lounge in Pioneer Square, a club that had
several shootings, stabbings, and fights in 2006 and 2007, I know very
well that guns are not the only problem generated by the booze and
beat-heat of R&B/rap nights. After Mantra closed its doors at 2:00
a.m., shouting and fistfights broke out on the sidewalk and in the
parking lots. Sometimes the disturbance would end with a car angrily
burning rubber (a good night); on other occasions it would end with the
pop, pop, pop of a pistol (a bad night). And then came the
sirens—then silence and sleep. The only solution was to shut down
Mantra (it’s now a quiet furniture store).
Because the shooting at Chop Suey happened during a hiphop show, it
will be impossible for the public to separate the music from the
murder. Yes, so far it seems that the rappers performing that night
(Young Soprano, Fatal Lucciauno, No Clue, Dividenz, and Anonimous) had
no direct connection with the killer and the killed (a rapper who was
not performing that night). Nevertheless, hiphop has a real history of
violence—to say there is no such connection between the two is to
talk crazy. If this were not the fact, if hiphop and violence were
totally unrelated, then why is it if I go to a show featuring Too
$hort, I’m patted down for weapons, and if I go to a show featuring
Neil Young, I only need to show my ticket? Indeed, it is rumored that
the man shot dead at Vito’s was there to attend Too $hort’s afterparty,
following a performance by $hort and the Pack at Studio Seven, a new
trouble hot spot for hiphop-related disturbances.
But hiphop is still just music; a rapper does not go onstage and
start shooting people (a Schooly D fantasy). He may rap about smoking a
nigga, but that is not the same as doing it. In fact, the last thing a
gangster rapper wants is a real gangster disrupting his show, his
career, his mic dreams. The gangster rapper wants none of it. Indeed,
the incident at Chop Suey is extraordinary in the sense
that—unlike rap/R&B club nights (which feature only
DJs)—rap shows (which feature live performers) rarely end in
bullets.
“Before the shooting started, Fatal was off the stage and done,”
explains Manier. “I don’t know all the facts, but it was an altercation
from outside [the club], and it spilled inside…. This rarely happens,
and I’m just hoping there is no backlash. I’m hoping that people
recognize the success hiphop has had over the last few years, and that
the club owners and bookers keep it going. I’m hoping that people see
it is an isolated incident. Let’s tighten up things. It was a
gangster-rap lineup that night, and when you see shows like that, it
doesn’t hurt to have a cop car up front.”
Now it is time to make two important distinctions that will guide us
out of this mess: There is a difference between club nights and rap or
hiphop shows, and there is a difference between rap shows and hiphop
shows. The first distinction is explained in the above paragraphs (club
nights are almost always bad; live rap/hiphop shows are usually not so
bad). As for the second distinction, rap is one thing (gangster or
crunk or pop); hiphop is another (it involves all of the elements of
the music—political, serious, silly, underground, gangster, and
so on). So, it’s not a matter of hiphop as a whole, but a matter of
what type of crowd a particular type of hiphop attracts. Mass Line’s
Gabriel Teodros, for example, is scheduled to perform at Chop Suey this
Friday, January 9. Because Teodros’s hiphop is all about love, unity,
the socialization of health care, and the empowerment of women, we can
expect that the type of people who exploded into violence during Young
Soprano’s show will not be in attendance. Gangland beef will not spill
into the club during or after Teodros’s performance. Gangs have no
heart to hear about why it is important to respect black women, to
spend time with your kids, or to purchase fair-trade coffee. Thugs go
where thug life is celebrated.
This is why it is important not to close Chop Suey. Chop Suey is a
venue for different types of music, and, specifically, different types
of hiphop. Hiphop in essence is about diversity—it has its dusty
philosophers, dirty jokers, dreamy lovers, mad riddlers, sensitive
hippies, and even intelligent hoodlums. When all is going well, hiphop
is one big and lively family, and a venue that can one weekend host
Fatal Lucciauno and the next Gabriel Teodros captures the spirit of
this diversity—a spirit, furthermore, that has been displaced
from hiphop by a commercial monster resulting from the cancerous growth
of thug hop (rap) and the diminution of all other forms. In fact, on
February 1, 2008, Sportn’ Life had a show at Chop Suey that featured
D.Black, Grayskul, the Physics, Action Buddie, and Bean One (street
hop, geek hop, gothic hop, and black rock). Any space that supports
that kind of diversity should keep its doors wide open.
“Closing seems a little bit drastic,” says Chop Suey booker Pete
Greenberg. “At this point, we want to look at what happened and see how
we can prevent it from happening again. But in my memory, this is the
first time this kind of thing has happened here, and, God willing, we
hope it is the last.”
Asked if the incident will affect how he books hiphop shows in the
future, Greenberg answers: “You know, I’m not even sure it had anything
to do with the genre of music. It is awful, but we do not know the way
it went down. For the near future, we are going to be discerning [about
acts] across the board. But I don’t think it is fair to blame the
genre. I’m not quick to say, ‘Oh, it’s hardcore hiphop, so fuck
hardcore hiphop.'”
Still, hosting gangster-rap shows means one must increase security.
There is no way around that. And the incident that happened at Chop
Suey will impact the number of venues and concert lineups that feature
gangster rap. There is no way around that. In the light of this
reality, Chop Suey should continue to open its doors to both the hard
and soft sides of hiphop—only we all must make sure that those
doors are secure. 
Right on! I live in Buffalo, NY and we’ve had a problem with shootings at hip hop shows over the past couple of years. It’s sad that a few thugs that try to settle their beef at these shows, end up hurting innocent victims and tarnish the image of hip hop in general.
Little kids look up to rappers and rappers look up to thugs. Something’s gotta change.
What a great story. Important work, beautifully done. Thank you!
Hat’s off to you, Charles.
Gangsta rappers, what the ___ ? Grow up and think before you act ! Your actions ruin it for all ! Get a Life and if need be get some Psychiatric help, it is available for free. Turn your anger and hate into supporting your community, not killing them. Kids look up to you, think about being good role models. Promoters, any thing for a packed house eh?
You should be held accountable for lack of professional security, your only objective is to pad your pockets. DJ’s Rappers and Hip hoppers seek out good management and promoters. Promoters should pay you a prevailing wage up front, club owners , too.
ah, the 206 crowd…. probably the same crowd that also covers cap hill in all your ugly gang graffiti.
Hows this for an idea, host hip hop in rainier valley???? The us whiteys can drive down if we want….
Oh wait, places there wont host it, due to the violence.
Bullshit. Why should club goers and owners pay such a high price for thug poets glorifying violence? I think it is in the best interests of all that bookers and owners refuse to give these guys a venue. Let them host house parties.
Thanks for this, Charles.
Very well put, Charles.
There’s something wrong when you have to beef up security for certain genre of music.
If that is the case, they shouldn’t have it at all.
It’s like dealing with bunch of 5 years old.
If you can’t behave, it’s timeout.
If you can’t have a show without violence, it’s gonna have to stop.
Besides, whether you like it or not if you talk about gangsta crap you are going to attract those gangsta thugs.
What do you think is going to happen if you have bunch of mindless dumbass impressionable beefing kids with weapons in one place.
Of course you will see that kind of violence.
I’m sorry for those who love to spread the gangsta BS through your so-called music but you are part of the problem because you are spreading that kind of hate.
It’s not so hard to decipher, it’s all about cause and effect.
If you don’t book these gangsta crap, you don’t have to deal with this BS, period.
Book quality and intelligent hip hop.
Then you will not have to worry about the gangs or the violence.
How hard is that to figure out?!
Sorry, but got too many idiots running the show.
Peace out, and bring REAL intelligent hip hop back!!
Always the hip-hop bunch. 35 miles west of Cleveland, Ohio, same stuff happens on hip-hop night, they bust the joint up and there are shootings!
At least at my age, 58, I am no longer into that stupid stuff.
Same down in Hilton Head! Hip-hop and shootings!
Time for last call? Bars getting
second look after rash of shootings
Hilton Head Island Packet – Jan 5, 2009
http://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/s…
Councilman George Williams said he is concerned Hilton Head’s reputation with tourists has been damaged because of bar violence that began last spring, culminating with near-riots of up to 50 people and stabbings and shootings at several south-island …
Chop Suey’s mistake was trying to fill a night where nobody was going to come out by turning to an inexperienced promoter that had no clue what he was doing. There were probably more artists than actual attendants there. Combine that with an ineffective promoter/show producer and you have people with a lot of time on their hands.
this was my response to Greg, an ex-security guard who had some suggestions about how the shootings could have been “avoided” in the “There’s a War Going On” article on this site.
Greg,
i totally agree with you that security SHOULD be run just as you described above…DURING A HIP-HOP show. the truth is, and i know i’ll get some crap for this, but i don’t care, that a lot of these clubs DON’T NEED to be crazy over the top with security 90+% of the time. why? well, because this crap doesn’t usually (IF EVER) happen with the other music crowds they cater to. unfortunately, it’s the “HIP-HOP” (gangsta rap DESTROYED this term) crowd that invites this kind of idiotic, chest-beating crime.
think about it. it makes sense. do you really think Chop Suey needs crazy security when relatively small bands come and do a show? NOT the kind that you’re talking about. WHY? because people going to those shows AND the performers who are there AREN’T THE TYPE TO SHOOT OTHER PEOPLE! unfortunately, the hip-hop crowd and it’s performers seem to not be able to act like civilized human beings. i like hip-hop, but maybe it’s time to crack down on this STUPID violence by being more restrictive with WHAT TYPE of hip-hop gets to be performed. it pains me to say this, i’m not about censorship of any kind, but when people are in danger, that’s when things need to be brought back to earth.
i think the points in it reflect some of the views of other posters.
It’s not about rap or hip hop itself, but the inception of the music. In fact, hip hop was started in the Bronx so that gang members could settle their beefs with b-boy and MC battles. So in essence, the whole idea behind rap was to quell violence and create positive unity. But gangsta rap is an avenue for thugs and wanna-be thugs to boast about their street cred et-cetera. I enjoyed your distinctions among the different types of hip hop. To me, a white boy who grew up in Woodinville and moved about one block from Chop Suey, living closer to the “street” of the city and interacting more with blacks, I can attest to the fact that hip hop like Blue Scholars, Common Market and Silent Lamb Project is far different from the acts that were featured at Chop Suey the night of the shooting. That is not to say that one type of hip hop is better than the other, but that one embraces unity and peace, and the other promotes misogyny and murder. I must admit however, I dig both…
Peace?
BK
Charles, please quit reviewing movies and write more articles like this. This was spot on.
“Book quality and intelligent hip hop.” ha ha how can you book what never exsisted..
Violence and Rap/Hip-hop is a complex issue. But if you’re a legitimate club owner why would you even think of hosting a rap night? One shooting and you could lose your entire business or even your life. The chances are low, but why would they take a chance on something like that? It sad. Without live venues to play and work their craft, hip-hop artists will grow more and more stagnate and repetitive. It’s already a problem within the genre.
very well put!
You’re absolutely right; we have to see beyond this event.
And as gang violence can thrive wherever it is tolerated, it is still FUCKING SEATTLE.
Still in defence of ‘gangsta’ main stays such as ‘hip hop’ venues , etc?…..hopelessly and fatally faux’liberal’…when will it ever end?…..
This article blew me away. Great job Charles-
This is perhaps the most affirming comment thread I have ever seen on the SLOG.
all that needs to be done is to pass out fliers at the door, and make occasional announcements, stating, “OK, just want to make sure everyone knows, we’re not really advocating violence, this is ART”
WOW!! It’s not hip hop music that makes someone go and shoot innocent people. Let’s stop pointing fingers blaming music; the blame goes to person with the gun. Let’s take a look at all music venues that have had some sort of violence somehow “attached” to it. Wait.. that can’t happen because the only ones that are broadcast across the news and articles are “Hip Hop” concerts. The media can persuade a general population (that already looks down on hip hop music and African Americans) too continue to turn their noses up and give a thumbs down. There’s good and bad with everything this world has too offer and Hip Hop music has it’s good also.. it’s just not so glamorized because the negative aspect is always crammed down your throat.
Whether you ave an idiot pulling out a gun shooting at a folklore festival, a kid dressed in all black going to massacre a whole school, a drive by shooting in the “Hood” and or an abusive cop that shoots his wife then himself..it all ties together with a “GUN” and some sort of unstable mental health.
We all need to be responsible for our own actions instead of pointing fingers playing the blame game. I know it’s easy for some of you out there to do so because you lack the understanding of hip hop music but instead of using an easy escape educate yourself on Hip Hop because it’s more than just music!
Personally, I have a 1 murder rule. If I were the owner of Chop Suey, it would only take 1 murder before I ended Hip-hop night on the spot. Hopefully, Chop Suey will be sued by the victim’s families and that can put an end to this nonsense once and for all.
“Nevertheless, hiphop has a real history of violence—to say there is no such connection between the two is to talk crazy. “
It’s not complicated. Shut em down. Stop shitting in my neighborhood.
Hate to rain on the parade, but there is the chance that Chop Suey will not be able to host any more hip hop shows. Not because they don’t want to support the hip hop community, or try to shake this incident off, but because of insurance. When writing insurance for clubs and bars that host shows, the insurance companies do take in to consideration what sort of music gets played. They’re very hesitant to insure places that host hip hop and hard rock due to the violent life style associated with the clientele. With the latest shooting incident, the club will probably have to sign a contract explicitely saying they will not host any more hip hop shows, lest they get their insurance pulled (which would be bad). It’s not a matter of wanting to put these on, but a matter of whether they get to.
Seattle is one of the top 10 safest cities in the USA.
Thugs at seattle hip hop shows are fake. Even the ones firing bullets are fake. theyre trying to live out a fantasy.
People still listen to hip hop? That’s sad.
MY SOLN: BULLETS MADE OF CRACK! DON’T KILL, ADDICT YOUR FOES! MAKE THEM THE PUNK ASS BITCH WHO SCRATCHES AND IS EASY TO PICK LIKE FAULTY LOCKS. THEN THEY WON’T COME TO OUR NICE SAFE WHITE VENUES AND FUCK UP THOSE BAD-ASS BLUE SCHOLARS AND COMMON MARKET SHOWS!!!! 206 WHUT UP!?!?!? MORE ROXXXXANE SHANT´E PLZ, LESS WEEZ´E PLZ.