Gentle listeners of the podcast, it pains us to have to remind you to TEND TO YOUR UNICORN. In other words, if you have secured a lovely lady who is willing to be the third in your three-way, you are obligated to do her the courtesy of providing her with an ORGASM. Jesus Christ, people.

In other matters concerning etiquette, it is now officially BAD FORM to open your relationship to include your brother.

A young curmudgeonly lass has a long list of deal breakers. No drinking, no drugs, and no porn. Is she destined to be a spinster for all of her days?

And for the record, none of the TSARY are straight edge… we don’t think.
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23 replies on “Savage Love Episode 251”

  1. For the girl who doesn’t drink, smoke, etc:

    My best friend from high school just got married to a wonderful guy. He’s kind of high functioning pothead, I’m pretty sure she’s never tried the stuff in her life. Still, they have been happily together for the last seven years and just had a beautiful wedding. I cannot say enough good things about her husband. I hope the caller thinks about ways she could live with a person who drinks, smokes, etc, within reason. She should think critically about what addiction looks like and what is unreasonable. If my friend had decided that she could not live with a man who smoked pot, she would have missed out on a wonderful relationship. If you can’t compromise, you can’t really be in a relationship.

    On another note, I have a friend who is straight edge. She seems to have no trouble dating men due to that particular fact. There are plenty of guys who are totally respectful of her not drinking, not to mention the tons of guys who don’t drink hard liquor, and more than a handful who do not drink at all. I don’t remember how old the caller said she was, but I feel like excessive drinking generally wears off on most by the time they hit their late 20s/early 30s. I think if the caller can compromise even a little, she won’t have to resign herself to a cat lady fate.

  2. For the guy giving feedback who basically read my comment from last week: You made one super-critical mistake in your call. When the popup asks you if you want something, you do not say “no”. You do not say ANYTHING. No matter what you click, you’re clicking something, meaning you’re telling the browser to do the action that page has set for when you click.

    Which is to say, “No” means “yes” means “please run the program Mr Browser, I have told you that it is okay and you have my blessing”.

    The only correct response to a popup is to close the popup, and BE CAREFUL. Make sure you’re not clicking on a “close” button inside the popup, that’s “infect me”. Make sure you’re not clicking on a fake “X” button that’s been placed inside the popup (like, a popup of a window that itself has a *fake* popup inside it – make sure you close the OUTER window, you don’t click on the fake “inner” window.)

    And, really, if a site throws popups, it is a virus-infested shithole by definition, and you should not get your porn from there. Get your porn from reliable, reputable places – or at least ones where you can clearly vet content before opening it, and where you’re not getting this kind of attack.

  3. If you showed an alien humanoid this episode and then focused in on the last two straight lady call-ins (not the woman/doctor) and said, “Here, this is an option for you as a sexual partner.” That alien would say, “Why would you put up with that?”

  4. Whoa. I would NOT advise getting caught by the cops as a nonexistent risk for straight couples. Exhibit A: a nice older couple from my hometown got caught messing around by the cops in their car in a park or somewhere. They had to go to court to pay a fine and do community service. They were so embarrassed they actually moved away.

    However, this couple was in their 60’s, and perhaps what was at play here was the cops’ disgust reactions to not being attracted to them, the same way they bust gay dudes in part for doing something they find disgusting. So, caller, if you are really sure that you and your girlfriend are actually attractive, this may work out for you. Be prepared to be shamed, though.

  5. I’d encourage this lady to soften her refusals before the crushing loneliness sets in rather than after.

    Many things she said stuck out to me: “But they can also not be religious.” Wha? Does that mean “An additional rule is that he can’t be religious,” or “But I’ll throw guys a bone. You don’t have to be religious.” Religious guys are less likely to be booze/porn/dope-orientated.

    “I cannot connect emotionally to a man that watches porn.” At 23, you don’t know what you’re capable of.

    “It’s something about me that’s not going to change.” Translation: “It’s something about me that I refuse to change.”

    “Most men also like to drink or smoke pot or do something.” Yep. Most guys like to do SOMETHING. I suspect if she got a guy who did none of her no-nos, she’d get to work inventing new no-nos. At least until she’d rather be with a guy who has the occasional glass of wine than be lonely.

  6. Oops! The first part of my message got lost somewhere. I’m talking about the 23 year old lady who refuses to date drinkin’ tokin’ strokin’ guys. She reminds me of myself, except my rules were about all the indulgences I got to have, which any partner would have to accept. In my mid-thirties I finally softened my stance on things like never cleaning, because I couldn’t bear the loneliness anymore. Now I’m happily married to a woman who makes me clean sometimes.

  7. I can’t believe you advised someone to have sex in public. These days you will get put on a sex offenders list and have it haunt you for the rest of your life, married, straight, whatever. Instead, take her to the local swingers club where people are looking to watch and be watched.

  8. Re: 23 y/o Cat Lady… oh where to start…

    1. Dan, thank you for addressing her young age! I am sure at 23 I made similar statements about pot/drugs and porn. Now at 31, at least my view on porn has changed… what’s more, I learned to incorporate porn into my sex life with my partners and enjoyed every minute of it! Not that you have to change, but you have a many years ahead… many experiences… many people will cross your path… don’t close yourself off so early in life. (Maybe you just need a really great fuck?)

    2. My 27 y/o brother is a non-drinking, non-drug using, non-religious, non-porn watching, non-religious Berkeley graduate. If you believe a sister’s bias, he’s funny, good looking, and smart. I don’t think he’d date a girl like you- you sound a bit too wound up there… but my point is, men like that DO EXIST. At some point, he’s experienced most of these things and has just decided they are not for him- be careful not to pass up the guys who like to “DO SOMETHING” at least once…

    3. My other brother is an ex-military 35 y/o who use to drink, smoke, and probably frequented strip joints and watched porn in great excess. He met his now wife about 4 years ago and quit smoking (and gained about 30lbs). He occasionally drinks and I’m sure he still sporadically watches porn. But he’s a great, albeit chubby, husband! Give and take 23 y/o Cat Lady, give and take!

    You do not need to sacrifice yourself (values, beliefs, etc), but you do need to learn to be open-minded. You are not going to be a cat lady 🙂

  9. To the girl who says she wants a boyfriend who doesn’t ever drink, take drugs or use porn. I had a similar list of deal-breakers once (including ‘must be a vegetarian’), and it lead me straight into a violent relationship. When I finally met a guy who ticked all my boxes, I was blind to the fact that the relationship was seriously not good – I had thought his meeting my requirements would ensure that he was the right person for me. How wrong I was.

    I get that you don’t want to get into arguing exactly how much porn, drug or alcohol use is okay. However, there is actually a really easy place to know where the line is: when YOU feel that there behaviour (regardless of whether alcohol, drugs, porn or anything else is involved) starts affecting the quality of your relationship – focus on the behaviour your perception of its cause. Otherwise you are trying to police what happens in the rest of their life when they’re not with you, and that’s impossible as well as unreasonable.

    There are plenty of guys out there who have their alcohol, drug and porn use under control to the extent that you would be unlikely to notice it unless you were looking for it.

    Having said that, I think that your deal-breakers are actually much more sensible than those that many people have that are more socially acceptable, such as the way that most women won’t even consider dating a guy unless he’s taller than them, preferably x-amount taller.

  10. Love the podcast. But I hate listening to 15 minute radio interviews where the other party is on the line on a scratchy ‘live from Mogadishu-style’ telephone line.

    When I was trying to listen in my kitchen this week, the interview with the neuroscientist was almost inaudible.

    Has your production team heard of skype? It’s not exactly hard to set up, it’s free, and it sounds SO much clearer. I’m sure it wouldn’t be beyond the wit of your computation neuroscientist- or any of your other experts- to login and do it that way.

    Hey- most of the people asking questions could probably figure it out too.

    Other than that I LOVE the podcast and keep up the good work.

    Just don’t make me switch back to Ira Glass.

    – A RADIO PRODUCER IN EUROPE

  12. Couldn’t agree more with your opening comments about cheating as a better option than leaving an otherwise good marriage when the reason for cheating is simply sexual satisfaction. I love my husband unconditionally, we’ve been through a lot together (depression, death of family members, major career changes and challenges), and we’re very good at the “business” of marriage–we share the responsibilities of building a home together well and have an equal relationship with great intellectual and emotional exchange. We even have a good sex life. He’s willing to try lots of new ideas and is very concerned with my pleasure. That said, before we married, I was very sexually adventurous and enjoyed experiencing many different partners, and marriage didn’t make that part of me go away. In the last year, I’ve rediscovered that I can still enjoy that experience because, for me, it’s just sex. I don’t want to hurt my husband, which is why I only cheat far away from home with people he doesn’t know, and I ALWAYS use protection, but the cheating also allows me to find sexual satisfaction without destroying an otherwise very good marriage. I’d like to eventually bring my husband into my experiences by swinging together. He’s willing to try having another woman join us, but the idea of another man is still a stretch for him. Until that time, I’ve found that cheating just for sex is satisfying me without hurting him.

  13. Hi Isaac03489y,

    I’d say many people have tried pot, but no, not everybody has tried it. If you are really curious, there is no harm in trying it, only you can decide for yourself if you like it or not. I used to smoke pot everyday. Now, I only smoke once or twice a year. Some of my friends have never smoked, and never will. Whatever you decide to do is OKAY. ^_^ Peace!

  15. RE: The 23-year-old with the list of deal breakers

    I can relate. Although my list doesn’t include any of hers save for the “must not be religious” and I am twice her age, I too am single and alone. I was married and have three teenaged children so it’s easier to be “alone” when you have a houseful of people. For the past 10 years I’ve pretty much been totally single. I really don’t “want” anything from a partner. I’m financially secure and independent and I have lots of people in my life with whom I socialize. Yet, something is missing. I don’t miss the sex but I miss the physical intimacy with another (i.e. kissing and cuddling). Yet, I don’t want to “settle” either.

    Of course I realize some day my kids will all be gone and maybe then I’ll date again. Actually, I do date from time to time but never meet anyone I want to sleep with much less settle for. My tentative advice to her would be to keep dating. Your suggestion about the straight-edge communities was a good one. However, personally, I find that overall, I’m much happier being single than I ever was in any relationship I’ve ever had.

    The thing is, if you settle, well, you settle and if you don’t, then at least you have the hope that you will meet the person you want.

    I agree with what you said about “the Universe not coughing up the right person” but I don’t see anyone in a relationship I admire. I’m sure there are great relationships out there. I just don’t see them. All I see is a multitude of couples justifying in the most defensive of tones saying how much “hard work” their relationships were and tons of people lying to their partners about things they do and like (like porn, pot smoking, etc.).

    Maybe Chris Rock was onto something when he said, “Married and bored. Single and lonely. There ain’t no happiness anywhere. It’s just a matter of what you can better deal with—boredom/settling (and possibly lies) or loneliness.

  16. Ugh. I hate the term “settling” so much. It has so many negative connotations that can colour a person’s perception of what it means to settle.

    Compromise. That is what relationships are about. Because when you enter a relationship with another person, you are entering into a relationship with a living, breathing, feeling independent human being. Who had a life utterly independent of you until the day you met. And you are not going to agree on everything. Nor should you, if you want a relationship that will be stimulating and will provide room for growth.

    Can you decide certain things are non negotiable? Of course. I will never have children, and I make that clear in relationships and avoid becoming involved with people who do want children. But in doing so, you accept that you are shrinking the pool of acceptable options.

    And if you are going to demand certain dealbreakers, you need to accept that your partner may well have some of their own. Like the perfectly kind, loving, non-smoking non-drinking non-porn-watching sexy, fun guy who insists that he will only be with a strict vegan. Or that he needs to be able to enjoy certain sexual kinks which you may not share. Or who expects his spouse to be the home-maker. So before you decide to enforce strict deal-breakers, consider how willing you are to offer the same to your potential partner.

  18. To the “curmudgeonly” girl, there are TONS of guys who do not drink or smoke pot. (There may be guys who drink socially, but do not drink for the purpose of getting durnk.) These guys are in the minority, but they do exist. Honestly, at this point in my life, I would not even know where to go to meet a guy who loves drinking.

    The key is to look for friends (and potential partners) who share your hobbies. So rather than going clubbing, you might want to join a book club. And, no, don’t join a book club hoping to find a date there. But if you join with the intent of making friends, you’ll get a wider acquaintance circle, and someday you’ll bump into a friend of a friend who’s totally hot and you’ll ask him out and life will be good. 🙂 So try to think of where you’re more likely to meet people who share your interests in life.

    The porn is a whole different issue. There are honestly very few men who are not aroused by porn, and those men are the only ones who do not watch porn. If a man is aroused by porn, and he’s not religious, he will watch it. You would too, if you were aroused by porn! But porn is something he doesn’t have to do around you. As long as you don’t have to see it, and as long as he’s still able be sexual with you, then this is an aspect of his life you can ignore.

    Getting drunk and getting high on a regular basis does affect one’s partner. Getting off in the privacy of one’s study really doesn’t.

  20. “I suspect if she got a guy who did none of her no-nos, she’d get to work inventing new no-nos”

    This. I know the type, sadly.

  21. “Honestly, at this point in my life, I would not even know where to go to meet a guy who loves drinking.”

    Yes, its really odd that there’s nowhere for people who like to purchase and consume alcohol to congregate. I bet if someone was inventive enough they could make some money with that business plan.

  22. I am a non-religious male who never drank and has never done any drugs. I do watch porn, but no one knows and she’d never find out.

    If you can compromise one of the 4 requirements – find me.

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