This is crazy we know but what if someone got in a relationship with someone they had stuff in common with and respected and had shared values enjoyed each other's company and then sex was icing on the cake?
As opposed to using 'relationships' as nothing more than a means to (short-term) sex.
Crazy; right, we know...

Tab Hunter married a younger guy around 25 years his junior.

But it sounds like this daddy is focusing on fucking hot young ass as opposed to finding something long term.

I agree with Noatak @1 and Frank @4. It sounds like LW wants an LTR purely for its utilitarian value - as a sort of insurance policy against the day when he will no longer be able to attract beautiful young men to his bed for NSA sex unless he pays for them, and he wants to continue to be able to have free, easily available, and (ideally) hot sex with a younger man for the rest of his life. Not a bad goal, mind you, but most younger men who are interested in and worthy of an LTR will expect their partner or spouse to appreciate them for a lot more than just their physical appearance. Dan touches very lightly on this point, but I think LW needs to be told more directly: your 12-year history of gay dating can be summarized as a lot of fun splashing and wading in the shallows with a succession of gorgeous young boys. But you're going to have to learn how to swim at the deep end of the emotional pool before you are ready for that LTR you claim to want so very badly.

I don't know there... Stephen Fry is a millionaire. I'm sure he and his husband love and respect one another, but it's no good telling an older guy that a young man will love him until death because a millionaire celeb can do it.

50 isn't old- the LW is having no trouble getting hot young men and yes he could probably have a relationship with them- his question is about growing old into old age, and would a ltr work out then? I don't know, might be different with gay guys. Maybe a 20 year old will still want to be with him in 30 years when he is shitting himself and the 20 year old is his age? I lean towards Dan's advice too because there's no guarantee that someone your own age will be there in 30 years either. And Dan is correct in that if this dude wants a lovely young 20 something, it's pointless to try for ltr with him since he won't be that way forever.

Eventually though, he'll probably stop having luck with college-aged guys right? Probably not for another decade, but eventually.

What I wonder, since gay guys are supposedly the least likely to be monogamous, why doesn't he build a relationship with someone closer to his age who is ALSO interested in hot young thangs? Eventually when they both get too old to attract any younger guys, they'll still have each other, ha ha!

I dont know. For real, I'd say just enjoy yourself while it lasts. You have another decade at least before you have to seriously worry about this. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow.

I've known three older men (50-60 y.o. or so) who have had successful long term relationships with guys 25-30 years younger. And none of them were multimillionaire celebrities. It's rare, but it's possible.

You don't have to be a millionaire, but in all of the couples I know, the older men have been significantly better off then the younger half. More of a stage-of-life thing than anything else. The older guys have been nearing retirement age, and owned homes and had substantial income and savings (pretty well off, if not super wealthy); the younger guys were mostly just post-college, on their first real jobs, paying off college loans, etc, and didn't have much spare money most of the time. I would guess this would be pretty common. So you have to be able to navigate a relationship with significant differences in income and wealth, which can be an added complication for some people and no big deal for others.

RE: Daddy...I have a gay friend who is kinda into me, and being bi, I'm kinda into him. He isn't much younger than me, just 10 years, and his nickname for me is DaddyBoss. Took me a while to figure out the daddy thing...after I did, I was honored. But for an older seemingly straight guy, to the outside world anyway, it did catch my ear in an odd way at first.

Mizz Liz - I'm afraid that gets a serious Grade of Execution deduction. Mr Fry is a genius. He also has a great deal of personal integrity. After I became a GGGM in Amsterdam (twenty years ago this summer - oh, dear), one of the GGSMs I met there and befriended, who was then both "objectively" prettier and probably more talented than the current Mrr Fry (although it's hard to compare across disciplines) made a serious play for Mr Fry, which was declined with regret, as Mr F was partnered at the time. My friend was so disappointed he turned bi and, if I've been correctly informed, has had official relationships only with women ever since. (That sounds like a joke, but I genuinely think it's at least half-true.)

Note that I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you are only commenting on LW's smaller chances of an LTR due to lacking celebrity or wealth, and not lumping Mr Fry in with the Mr Trumps of the world. Had I thought the latter to be your intention, I'd be packing a lorgnette.

Your Mutual Consolation Prize suggestion doesn't come across that well. Besides, it seems as if LW's relationship energy flows to the young and not just his libido. Mr S may be right to warn him off thinking that a thing of beauty will be a boy forever, but, if LW is seriously mentally 24 or so himself, his mental age might advance as the relationship does.

I wish this were a podcast call, so that Mr Savage could (though he wouldn't) get LW on the line and go deeper. Who's pursuing whom, and, if/when LW is the pursued, why?

Taking that much farther feels like deciding on my own performance, which Elizabeth Bennet told Mr Darcy she mustn't do. I shall close here.

@5 - Capricornius
Nailed it.

Dan, didn't you answer a letter almost exactly like this not too long ago? Like within the last year?

@10 since when does agreeing with @1 The Troll qualify as "nailing it"?

You can be in a successful relationship even if there is a big age difference. My fiancee is 25 years younger than me and my best friends has been in a successful 20+ year relationship with a guy 28 years older than him. If you love them for who they are and not just their hot bodies, you can maintain an successful LTR!

Fred @12, how does a troll learn how to behave in civilized society, if they are not commended whenever they make a worthwhile comment? All of us were basically trolls at birth and throughout toddlerhood, and many among us persist as trolls into grade school and beyond, but I'm optimistic enough to believe that anyone can learn to improve their social skills with sufficient positive feedback. I don't believe in shunning someone for past bad behavior, partly because I would hate to be judged solely for bad decisions I've made in my own lifetime.

I'm 25, gay, and married to a guy my age; as someone who is living out what the LW wished he could have lived out, I feel I have to back Dan here. I've been out for over a decade and like LW, I have only ever (since being legal) been in relationships with feminine males (guys that make most twinks seem masculine), so I understand the exclusivity this LW feels, in a big way.

Let me assure LW that there are younger guys who would knife fight for the chance to be in something long-term with an older male. For many, it's the dream. Say what you will about heteronormativity, but the stereotypes about young guys hooking up with older, financially secure men have their basis in reality. I'm not saying LW must be a sugar daddy, being able to live on your own as an adult is sexy in anyone. I am saying, however, that LW is finding hookups because he's looking for hookups, not because he is locked into them. Plus, he's even writing those off too early. I found my husband on a fetish site and we've been together for five years and are still going gangbusters, he's my best friend. We know a considerable number of young, just-out-of-college guys who would do just about anything to get with a guy like LW long-term. I'd be careful of anyone too thirsty, but don't count yourself out of the game just when you've started playing.

LW is new to all of this. He ought to enjoy his STRs while he has them, because eventually a LTR situation will present itself--it happens all the time--and when it does, who knows? He absolutely could learn to look past someone not being 24 any more, and could discover that some of the things he likes about younger guys can translate into older men as well. At 49, he still has a good chunk of time left to live the dream.

Err, I meant to say that like LW, I've only ever been into guys who are typically considered younger, twinky, etc. I didn't mean to imply he was necessarily into feminine guys, apologies.

No doubt plenty of people find happy relationships across the generations, as I stated it's possible. No doubt also that Stephen Fry and his husband are genuinely happy, as I also stated. But let's not pretend that immense wealth and celebrity (a reputation as a national treasure- and one I think is deserved) doesn't make things easier. Seems silly to kid ourselves about it. Likewise no doubt Trump and Melania are themselves well suited- a person with any scruples at all would not be with someone like Trump just because he's a rich celebrity- I have no high esteem for her. The same in reverse for Stephen Fry's husband- I'm sure he's a smart funny guy who must meet sincere and genuine mutual needs, etc. It's possible in both cases that these perfect matches would've come along even without the money or fame, but it's far more likely for them to happen in the presence of money or fame. For average folks who are not rich, these things are perfectly possible but less likely- that does not mean Fry and his husband do not genuinely love another or that Trump and Melania are not perfectly matched.

Wait, I misread. He's been out for twelve years, which means he's been at this longer than I have. Boy, don't I look silly! Okay, in that case, there's something else at play here. @5 is correct, there's an intimacy issue at play if he's sincere.

Disregard my earlier posts.

BTW Venn let me be clear that I think it's obvious that having wealth means you have a larger pool of mates. This is normal, and I thought it was indisputable- just like having good looks or certain personality traits mean you have a larger pool of mates. Sure you can find real love there like you can with a smaller pool but a larger pool does increase your chances. Therefore it seems a little pointless to give advice to someone about a thing by pointing out an extreme example of that tendency.

Like, if I were to say that I'm a fairly good looking woman and ask about my potential mates, it might be useful for someone to point out what chances I might have, but it seems stupid to say "well you know supermodels have no problem finding a date" etc. So yeah, the dude is older, he has no problem finding dates, and older millionaires likewise can pretty easily find younger people to marry them, and older rich brilliant celebrity millionaires can even find a younger person to marry them that appears to genuinely love them. What this has to do with advice to an average older person, I do not know. That's not to say that I think an older person finding a mate to love and marry them is either difficult or necessarily desirable or not- as I think the rest of my post indicated. Just that it seems pointless to mention what millionaire celebrity national treasures can do.

Not sure DADDY really really wants a relationship. He might think he should want that at his age and 12 years of screwing around, but o sounds like his focus is having a regular ageless college boy on hand for sex, not tea and sympathy. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with identifying what you want and pursuing it, even if it's just sex with frat boys. I commend him for following the campsite rule. Oh, and last thought, we don't know how long we have. He could lose a young lover to texting while driving in 18 months. So just being younger doesn't guarantee they'll outlive you.
What do you talk about, though? I am not sure i could have a relationship with 24yo male (I'm a 49yo female).

Commie @1: No, you know what's crazy? Being sex-negative, and making up alias after alias for the sole purpose of trolling a sex-positive advice column. THAT's crazy.

Emma @6: Bingo. "This rich, famous gay dude is married to someone much younger" -- that's what rich, famous straight dudes do too, and the younger folks in question can't possibly have any interest beyond these guys' fabulous personalities, can they? I agree, bad examples.

Cap @14: How is Commie's judgmental snark @1 "a worthwhile comment"? The rest of your comment @5 was compassionate and insightful. Please do not feed the troll.

Lionface @15/@16: Great comment, and your original post did not imply at all that the younger men DADDY was into were feminine.

As a cis female who prefers her men younger -- but not college-age; like Offwhitewalls, they're too annoying to make the nice bodies tolerable -- DADDY may find that his preferred age range inches up slightly as he gets older. So in his mid-50s, his young toyboys may be 30. And 30-year-olds can, in fact, be relationship material if you let them be. My latest toyboy has lasted nearly four years now. It can work.

21
You shouldn't let folks get under your skin just because they don't agree with you.
And calling those folks "trolls" is intellectual cowardice.
That is the problem with The Left;
unwilling to tolerate even the presence of ideas that differ from it's own narrow bigoted failed and ever failing orthodoxy.
In the real world those ideas can't be deleted and hidden.

Sexual behavior that damages emotional and/or physical health is not "positive", darling.
Responsible sexual behavior and attitudes are not negative.

Or maybe, just maybe, this guy could go on a few dates with guys his age as an exercise in expanding his horizons. Pick the slimmer more youthful ones if that makes it easier. It’s not uncommon for guys who come out of the closet later in life to be both more inexperienced with how to be in a relationship because they didn’t fully go through that developmental phase in their teens and early 20s and fixated on the appearance and youthfulness of guys in the golden hour. 12 years is a long time to keep that up though. This guy has had plenty of time to catch up on one thing he missed out on - sex with hot young guys. Now maybe he should work on the other thing he’s wants but is missing out on. A long term relationship. And as noted above, he can seek that with the sex objects he’s been using. But he also could make a conscious effort to expand the type of guys he dates, including ones his own age, to see if actual feelings based on mutual interest and attraction could develop as they do in mature relationships. Almost every gay guy is attracted to hot young guys, young men in the golden age of their youth, as the ancient Greeks described them. But this guy, against his will, seems to have made hooking up with them a dating version of the masturbation death grip.

This is one of the more FUN Savage letters. Lately, Dan has been so serious. This is the old Dan--dealing with a real issue with a lot of humor and fun. Nice to see Dan back in his groove.

"a gay vampire who sucks cock and never ages"
Can someone please write this story?

Mizz Liz - We agree on the essentials. Yes, celebrity and wealth attract those who would not be attracted without those attributes.

As for examples, unfortunately it seems one is generally restricted to famous names because they're known and incontrovertible. If Mr Savage were to list his friends George Adams, John Washington, James Jefferson and Thomas Madison as halves of intergenerational MM couples, we'd have to take that on faith. But the marriages of Known People and the ages of the participants can be verified easily. Similarly, I often use John McEnroe as an example of someone with a pro-woman change in position on a notable issue. Not many people will duplicate his experience, but it's easily verifiable.

I do still think that, whether consciously or otherwise, you invited the inference that Mr Fry's attractions were no greater than those of Mr Trump. Someone more famous for his genius than for his acting or writing deserved better.

I shall spare the assembled company direct testimony about the attractions of genius.

I had a fling with a man 20 years younger who liked me to call him Daddy. I don't think age has much to do with it.

the LTR potential of a 25-year-old is significantly higher than that of a 21-year-old.

Venn I think you're finding controversy where there isn't any. All I'm saying is that being rich or well-known expands a person's pool of potential partners. This is indisputable, even as isolated things (wealth vs popularity) but when you combine them (being rich AND famous) it's especially true. Likewise with being good looking, but in the examples we are talking about (Fry, you brought up Trump), the one is charming - maybe a "cute" in some ways even but hardly widely attractive, especially now- and the other is disgusting. And we don't know what the LW looks like. So yes, being rich and famous will increase one's ability to date younger more attractive people- I can't believe I'm even having to defend this. This is as true for Fry as it is for Trump. This does not mean that the younger attractive person who ends up with the rich famous person doesn't also love them and genuinely desire to jump their bones and this does not mean that non rich and non famous people might likewise find the same, there are plenty of examples in any of our peer groups, Dans or yours or mine. But it's not good advice to tell an average person with a concern that they should not be concerned about that thing because some rich famous person manages to overcome the same situation. I don't know what is in Fry's husband's heart of hearts. Fry is an intelligent, empathetic person with insight into human nature and so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he and his husband are in love and/or genuinely meeting one another's desires/needs etc. But it doesn't hurt also that he does not have to work, that he gets to travel the world, attend concerts, go sledding in the arctic, hang out with rock stars, etc. For a certain kind of man in his 20s, this is an amazing life. For certain men in their 60s, providing a young man with such a life is a genuine pleasure. It's an outlier example- an extreme. It really has nothing to do with the possibilities for most of us. And whatever you infer is your own - you brought up Trump, not me.

I am living proof that a relationship with a much younger man CAN work. I am 54 and he is 27. You do the math on age difference. We have been together for five years and are very happy. We have a lot in common. So....it can work. You just have to find the right man!

The older one gets, the shorter a potential LTR becomes.

Mizz Liz - You described a national treasure in your initial comments in terms that could equally or even more accurately have been used to describe a national embarrassment, finding nothing more complimentary to describe Mr Fry than calling him a millionaire and a celebrity millionaire. I felt Mr Fry deserved better and defended his reputation. You have refined your original post, and I am prepared to accept your clarification. You'll recall that I have a considerable stake here, having been pursued by a Mormon teen eleven years ago - and as I have never been able to afford health care, nor can I lay claim to ever having had abundant physical charms...

While I have no difference with your statements on the beneficial effects of wealth, I have seen in action the sort of relationship you proposed that LW seek, and I should not recommend it to a friend.

Calling an adult "girl" can be closer to calling a black man "boy" instead of something innoucuous.

Alanmt @23: "Almost every gay guy is attracted to hot young guys, young men in the golden age of their youth, as the ancient Greeks described them. But this guy, against his will, seems to have made hooking up with them a dating version of the masturbation death grip."
Gold star comment!
You're correct, I think people of all ages and orientations accept that younger (say, 20s-30s) people are in general more objectively attractive, and sexually enticing, than people in their 50s and 60s. It's just that some of us decide to pursue what our loins are pointing us towards and others of us, for very good reasons, are happy to leave those young people as "eye candy only."

Mimihaha @33: Sure, calling a female work colleague "girl" can be sexist and belittling. But that's not the context we're talking about. We're talking about romantic relationships, where people have "girlfriends" and "boyfriends," not "manfriends" or "womanfriends." Your observation, while true, seems irrelevant.

Find a man closer to your age who is ok with either / both of you getting some action from hot young studs on the side. Bring them in as thirds, even.

@14. Cap. I agree with what you say about trolls generally, but can't be with you in agreeing to the first comment. Noatak thinks that sexual attraction should be incidental to who you're in a relationship with. It's Sparta--a society where the state, or parents, or priests, decides who gets to mate (or to pair up). No--these decisions can only be decently made on the basis of the people in them feeling a spark.

Venn,

Walk this back and take a look at my initial (very brief) reference to Dan's reference to Stephen Fry:

"Stephen Fry is a millionaire. I'm sure he and his husband love and respect one another, but it's no good telling an older guy that a young man will love him until death because a millionaire celeb can do it."

Anything else you are reading into this is on you, not me. I pretty clearly said what I said. As for your anecdotal evidence and others' evidence that plenty of older men (who are not rich or famous) can attract an older man, the very next sentence of my post was:

"50 isn't old- the LW is having no trouble getting hot young men and yes he could probably have a relationship with them"

So I don't know why you or anyone else need to respond by saying that young men go after older men- obviously that's true and the LW expresses this in abundance. But that wasn't his question. Which is why I followed with:

"- his question is about growing old into old age, and would a ltr work out then? I don't know"

So as to what advice I'm giving him- I'm not. I don't think I gave any advice. I asked a few questions. I agreed with Dan. I pointed out that even with someone closer in your own age, there is no guarantee that an ltr would emerge.

Unless you mean the jokey (I even wrote ha ha) thing at the bottom about finding another old man to chase young ass with? Even as a straight woman, it's something I consider. My bff and I both are married to older men and men die younger than women in generally which means we consider that one day we will both be old and widowed with a tad bit of money. If not for the fact that I'm straight and she's like a sister (even if I weren't straight- she isn't- that would be gross) we could live together quite happily in every way but the sexual one. I'd love a retirement in which we find some hot young men to assist along their way in exchange for a bit of fun and security. I'm sure some of them would genuinely care of us and enjoy themselves as well. That this dynamic would be wholly different in real life even for and also wholly different for gay men than in my joke fantasy, I'm well aware, hence the "ha ha, I don't know, for real though..." at the end.

In short, the only initial point of my piece was to suggest that pointing to the opportunities and experiences of rich and famous people - in this case Fry but also Trump who you brought up- yes it is easier to find people who will MARRY YOU and stay with you until death (it's also easier to find a date or a friend or a piece of ass as your pool of potential mates is larger, but that's not what the LW asked about). And I'm on about it because a lot of Dan's advice lately has been skewed a bit by the fact that he's spent the last several number of years relatively well off and sort of famous- there are plenty of lonely old gay men, it's true. Straight ones too. Women as well, but far fewer than men as I think in old age, women do a better job of cultivating relationships or being alone than old men do. Would it happen to this LW? I have no idea, but I guarantee you it is more possible to happen to him than it is to a rich celebrity like Stephen Fry.

What this has to do with young Mormons, I have no idea, but sure I'd love to hear that story.